opinion on night feedings

[nuts555]

When do you all drop the middle of the night feeding?

Nuts is 4 weeks old and gets 6 meals in 24 hours...usually 6% of body weight. I feed her at 6:30 am, 10:30am, 2:30pm, 6:30pm, 10:30pm and 2:30am.
Occasionally, I let her go for 6 hours at night, but that has been the max.

At what age do you drop the night feeding? I'll keep doing it if it's better for her, just wondering what others do at that age...

Thanks.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

If Nuts is a grey or fox squirrel I'd feed 7-8% of his body weight 4 times a day. For me 4 times a day usually still means a night feeding since I work full time usually or am in school, but if you're home, you should definitely be able to sleep through the night.

Most people do NOT do what I do, but it worked very well for me when working full time (never let someone tell you you can't rehab and work, you really can't take birds but mammals are definitely manageable, I have worked full time and taken in 150 animals in a year). If babies are under 2 weeks (tiny pinkies with umbilical stubs) then I feed 5 times a day at 5:30 AM, (noon or 3 PM depending on how many of them there are, usually if just one or 2 I'll go home at lunch or if one is very sick then I definitely go home at lunch, if healthy then I usually wait til after work), 2:45 PM (as soon as I get home from work), 6 PM (if i didn't go home at lunch, if I did I skip this one), 9 PM, and midnight. I will also do 5 feedings a day if they come in emaciated or extremely dehydrated. In general, though, they are down to 4 feedings a day in under a week. Only exception is baby flyers, they seem to need 6 feedings a day for like the first 3 weeks and then 5 for another 2-3 then 4 for like ever (I love them but by the time they're weaned I am exhausted!).

I take them down to 3 feedings a day as soon as their eyes open as long as they are over 100 grams. 3 feedings is the goal because that means no night feeding for me :).

My guys gain weight great and are very healthy, so this method works for me and I've been doing it for 9 years. Others have had trouble when trying to do things my way so it's not for everyone. I do not have time for every 2-3 hour feedings during the day as I'm at work. There are exceptions to everything, and if I have pinkie opossums or mice, then my family will bring them up to work for me to feed on breaks every 2 hours. They've also brought me birds to feed and flyers and red squirrels. You can make 99% of baby squirrels work out perfectly with being gone 8 hours a day (or sleeping if you don't have time restrictions during the day).

So, sorry to ramble, my vote would be stop the night feeding, he can definitely be on just 5 feedings a day, and I'd even go down to just 4.

[island rehabber]

I only do night feedings for under 2 week old squirrels, or babies who are not holding their hydration. (In those cases, all bets are off -- I will stay up all night hydrating drop by drop if I have to.)
I try to get my guys to four feedings per day as quickly as possible -- I am not a night person, so fitting in 5 feedings per day usually means staying awake until after midnight, and this old body cannot do it anymore. I feed at 7am, 12noon, 5pm and 10pm as soon as I can get eyes-opened babies on that schedule....it works well for me. Hope that helps!

[pappy1264]

This batch has been totally different then any others I have done, so all bets are off! They are on five feedings (I had them up to 4 hours apart, because they didn't want food after only 3.5. But now they are bigger, even doing 7%, I had to go back down to 3.5 hours, so they are getting at least 5, sometimes 6 a day (depending on when I start. I usually try to start by 5-5:30. Yeah, getting older does not make it easy! lol) I think these guys had a lot of catching up to do, although think we are finally 'there' as far as weights are concerned. But if I try to move the time farther apart they are all sucking on each other!!!! gggrrrrrrr....never had suck bad suckers like this crew. Hhhhmmmm...maybe I should try to go up to 8%??????

[nuts555]

Now that's a huge relief :grin3

I can get 5 feedings in during the day (with help from hubby). 6:30, 10:30, 2:30, 6:30, 10:30 ...and if I can sleep those 8 hours at night, that sure would be wonderful. I have a part time "brain demanding" job (and my brain has been mush :)) and I have a 3.5 year old son with autism. So mommy needs her zzzzzz.

And yes, I think Nuts is a Fox, so will see if she takes 7-8% per feeding. I'm sure she'll be happy to hear that :thumbsup

[Turner's Mom]

Hi, I am new to baby squirrel raising also. I have a grey who is 8wks. I took him off the night feedings when he was at 7 weeks. I am a night night person for sure so the two late ones wear not an issue. Really though by the time he was about 5wks I bet I could have stopped then. I was just a worrier and a little needy of MY cuddle time with my baby. Turner, wasn't at all unhappy about the extra feedings either. :grin3 You will be able to do it for yours I am sure, as long as he is healthy and developing well. I say this because I have only just recently found TSB I did it without having the advice of these very smart and loving ladies and gentleman. Good luck and for sure come here to ask any question you have, "the pros" know what's up. :highfive

[Rhapsody]

I generally stop all my night feedings when my squirrels are between 4 and 7 weeks old.
Their individual condition and weight at the time determines how soon I will quit.

[nuts555]

I generally stop all my night feedings when my squirrels are between 4 and 7 weeks old.
Their individual condition and weight at the time determines how soon I will quit.

So how much should they weigh before you stop?

[Rhapsody]

So how much should they weigh before you stop?

I would say around 250 grams....... some more. :grin2:grin2


Based on --Wild Mammal Babies 2nd Edition


Birth ---: between 15 & 25 grams

1 weeks: between 25 & 60 grams

2 weeks: between 60 & 70 grams

3 weeks: between 70 & 80 grams

4 weeks: between 80 & 120 grams

5 weeks: between 120 & 150 grams

6 weeks: between 150 & 250 grams

7-8 weeks: 250 grams and greater


*weight may vary

[Duckman]

My babies are spoiled. I feed them every 4 hours until they are 4 weeks old and then go to every 6 until they ween. Of course, I usually have very healthy chunks....eeerrrrrr...., babies, but they enjoy themselves until it is time to wild up. They have time enough to worry about food later, when they are in the wild. I don't want any to want for food while they are with me. So far, I haven't had any complain or not wild up either!! :grin3

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I would like to see the 7 week old grey squirrel that weighs 250 grams, I'd say they're more like 180-200 grams. Dart is at 270 grams now and she only gets 2 formula feedings a day. She eats regular food and isn't too interested in formula, but she gains more weight if she drinks it, so I still try to get her to take it. Today she only took 20 ccs total.

[Nancy in New York]

I would like to see the 7 week old grey squirrel that weighs 250 grams, I'd say they're more like 180-200 grams. .

Here are two of Maura's "little" girls Naomi and Devyn that I babysat for last summer.
(I joked that I didn't know if Maura wanted me to release them or babysit them.) They were
HUGE!

Their eyes just opened the day before they came here. I had to weigh them because
they were SO huge Naomi was 183 grams and the Devyn 194 grams (or close to that). So at 5 weeks they
were "close" to 200 grams.

http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-8phRfrg/0/M/i-8phRfrg-M.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing/28182094_d4nbWs#!i=3184690406&k=8phRfrg&lb=1&s=A)

http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-MTM4DQ3/0/M/i-MTM4DQ3-M.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing/28182094_d4nbWs#!i=3184692309&k=MTM4DQ3&lb=1&s=A)

[nuts555]

Here are two of Maura's "little" girls Naomi and Devyn that I babysat for last summer.
(I joked that I didn't know if Maura wanted me to release them or babysit them.) They were
HUGE!

Their eyes just opened the day before they came here. I had to weigh them because
they were SO huge Naomi was 183 grams and the Devyn 194 grams (or close to that). So at 5 weeks they
were "close" to 200 grams.

http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-8phRfrg/0/M/i-8phRfrg-M.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing/28182094_d4nbWs#!i=3184690406&k=8phRfrg&lb=1&s=A)

http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-MTM4DQ3/0/M/i-MTM4DQ3-M.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing/28182094_d4nbWs#!i=3184692309&k=MTM4DQ3&lb=1&s=A)


Darn. Those are chubsters :grin2

[grampyngramy]

OH EM GEE. That top pic is the best. He looks like he is full, of mischief and fun.

[pappy1264]

Oh my goodness, the pic of the baby with the nipple...I looked and thought 'no touchie my nipple and nobody gets hurt'....:crazy My guys are now all eyes open, weights from 103 to 135. They are still on 5 feedings, every 3.5 hours (and even at that by 3 hours, I have to watch or they start suckling) and they are all on 7%!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Still have 50 grams to gain in 2 weeks, which they probably will, but clearly they are exceptions and not your average sized grey squirrels. My group with a big one and tiny one came in at about 3 weeks old weighing 90 grams (a fox squirrel). I forget how much my big ones from a few years ago weighed, but I think they were 300 at eyes opening, they were the chunkiest baby squirrels I've ever seen!

I like the mammal babies book for the dosing in it and some of the weaning ages, but a lot of information on the tiny tiny guys seems to be way off. I fed pinkie opossums according to their schedule the first time I got them and they bloated on day 4 and 6. It said to feed like every hour and they couldn't handle that. It also says to feed pinkie squirrels like every 2 hours round the clock. I've never fed a pinkie grey or fox squirrel 12 times in one day, even if they were on deaths door, it just won't do them any good. Baby mice are the only things that get every 2 hours round the clock. Even 1-3 gram pinkie opossums get some feedings with 3 hours in between or they'll bloat.

[island rehabber]

I like the mammal babies book for the dosing in it and some of the weaning ages, but a lot of information on the tiny tiny guys seems to be way off. I fed pinkie opossums according to their schedule the first time I got them and they bloated on day 4 and 6. It said to feed like every hour and they couldn't handle that. It also says to feed pinkie squirrels like every 2 hours round the clock. I've never fed a pinkie grey or fox squirrel 12 times in one day, even if they were on deaths door, it just won't do them any good. Baby mice are the only things that get every 2 hours round the clock. Even 1-3 gram pinkie opossums get some feedings with 3 hours in between or they'll bloat.

I agree with you about that, SR&B2. I was so surprised to read that every 2 hrs was recommended for pinkies. Even back in the day of the "old Esbilac" I never, ever fed every 2 hrs and trust me nobody starved to death in my house. :grin2 I loved Fox Valley 32/40 before it got strange, because pinkies could easily go 3.5 - 4 hrs between without a problem. Them days are gone, I'm afraid, because now it takes them SO long to digest it that they simply don't. It was nice though. I am feeding my pinks (8-9 days old) every 3hrs now because I am using Esbilac with probiotics, and they're doing fine.

May I interject something here on The Sacred 5-7% Rule? As Jack Sparrow said, "It's more like a guideline." I basically feed each baby as much as it wants and then carefully watch the poop. Most of the time babies will not overeat to the point of mushy, light-color poops, but if one does, then I note that and scale him back immediately. Now that she's well past the pinky stage (or blinkie stage :grin), I confess that Shamrock sucked down 10-12% of her body weight at each feeding and is currently taking 15-18cc! She never had mush after I got her on the new Esbilac....she did with the Goat Milk Esbilac that the finders had her on. Just puttin' that out there. :grin3

[pappy1264]

Thank you for sharing this! I remember when I had little Rose, at 12 grams, and IR you were the one who said 'she is fine at 3 hours' because she really did not want to eat after even 2.5. And I NEVER did a middle of the night feeding with her and she did fantastic. Now some may say 'oh no, they need one feeding in teh middle of the night'. But I would give her her last at about midnight, and then sleep for five hours. She never once had an issue, gained weight just fine, did great! And to remind how tiny she was and what she grew into...231787231786

[island rehabber]

Exactly, Mary -- that's why rehabbing can never ever have "one size fits all" rules, merely guidelines.
We never like when we feel as if our doctors are treating us like cookie-cutter patients and not listening to what WE, in particular, are saying. We don't want to treat our rehab critters like that, either. What was good for Rose was good for little Rose -- and look how beautifully she grew up. On the other hand I had one (Skye, I think) who could only handle 6-7cc at a time even when he was 7-8 wks old because anything more gave him absolute mush for poop. Go figure! :dono The answer can only be: make notes, observe each baby, adjust accordingly.

[pappy1264]

Yup, going through it with Han and his sibs. As of right now, there is a 30 gram difference from him to them. That is alot. I have been trying to keep him at 7%, them at 6% to give him a little catch up room. But he doesn't always want 7% and they ALWAYS want more. So today, I upped them. Although I did up him and he did take it this morning, I suspect as the day goes on, he may not every feeding, which is how he typically is. His poops are and have been fine. But once he starts to get a little full, he wants to go back to sleep...so getting the rest or even more into him can be tricky, don't want to push it and aspirate him. But it is pretty easy to tell when he really is 'done' or if he is just being sleepy. (Now Princess Leia, if I let her, she would probably take 20 ccs and look for more! lol)

[nuts555]

I've seen that weight chart above on the forum before and it made me worry so much that Nuts is wayyy underweight. But after having done some research, I found that weight varies quite a bit. Actually I found the attached photo very helpful:

[pappy1264]

NEVER give a baby nuts at 5 weeks (as in the photos)! I hold off on nuts for as long as possible. Giving blocks first (hard rodent ones as soon as eyes are open), then greens, veggies, etc. I also introduce hhb's usually after 8 weeks (since they have nuts, since they are already eating the hard blocks, I try to wait a little on those). Han is 103 grams, he is eating 8 cc's per feeding, which is every 3.5 hours still (since any longer, they all starting pee pee sucking!)

[island rehabber]

To further confuse us, those photos are of a baby fox squirrel -- easily one third larger than a grey the same age, and probably twice as large as a Florida or southern grey squirrel baby. So all of these ranges have to be taken with a grain of salt. :grin2

[pappy1264]

True! Again, like with anything else, there can be a huge variance on size. (Boy, someday, somehow, I HAVE to get to raise a foxer....:grin3) (interesting foxer facts...http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/Sciurus_niger/#geographic_range)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_squirrel

[Rhapsody]

I've seen that weight chart above on the forum before and it made me worry so much that Nuts is wayyy underweight.It does say at the bottom of the chart that "weight does vary" --and I may be the exception, but many of my Florida grey squirrels weigh 250 grams around 8-10 weeks old...... I love to feed my babies right.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I would put those weights more as grey squirrel weights. Almost all foxers weight 130-150 grams when their eyes open and gain 5-10 grams a day after that. They are a lot bigger than greys, but that weight chart doesn't reflect it. My foxers now are about 2 weeks younger than the grey they are with, but the grey weighs 260 and they weight 280-300 grams.

[pappy1264]

SRB2 just puttin' it out there, but if you get overwhelmed, feel free to send a foxer or two my way....:grin3 (hey, can't blame me for tryin'...:crazy) Sorry for threadjacking.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

If you wanna make the trip to Northeast Ohio in the beginning of August I'm sure I could get you some pinkie foxers. Of course, then you'd have to take them back to Ohio to be released since you don't have foxers in the area (and they may be bigger but they're more laid back and would be bullied if released in an area with all greys).