Wild mange squirrel treated with ivermectin - have a question

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Hello and I'm very glad to be on this board! Thanks for the acceptance.

My issue: I have a lot of fox squirrels who visit our yard including one who has been coming for at least 6 years. She has been the queen of her domain, the only female I ever see because I think she never allowed others near her "tree" except her own young...

On Friday March 21 I saw her with the beginnings of mange (stripe down her back at this point). It had developed very fast since I see her almost daily and had noticed nothing a couple of days earlier. I volunteer at a wildlife center where I have taken other mange squirrels for treatment and so originally planned on trapping her. However, she is smart and very trap-shy, and frankly I had misgivings about taking her to the center, because it's not the easiest experience for an older squirrel who has known nothing but the wild.

Between Tues and Wed of last week the mange progressed greatly in the space of just one day after the outside temperature went up (she was scratching her hair out - I could see it fall) - to about 50% hair loss. I tried to post here last week under another registration and for some reason couldn't find a "post" icon, so I read all ivermectin posts copiously to the point of OCD and last Thursday (March 27) I gave her a half-rice-grain / end of a cocktail stick dose of ivermectin 1:87 (I can hand feed her although she is warier than before). She apparently "survived" that OK since I've seen her every day since, but she is still very wary and not a happy camper. She is getting bullied by the other squirrels who chase her off.

Her physical status 5 days after ivermectin: no obvious progression of mange. She had some small sores and redness/scratches on her body last week and those seem to have gone - exposed skin is all white/wrinkled. She has an appetite and eats as much as others will let her (ate 4 pecan halves this morning - tried avocado but no luck with that today). However, I also saw her scratching today, not as badly or constantly as last week, but still scratching some...

Here is my question: I can conceive why she is still unhappy and wary (sudden hair loss, sudden loss of status among squirrels, cold, possibly some anemia...) but the scratching still... is that normal? (I know all squirrels scratch a bit, mange or no mange)? I'm sure the dose I gave her should have been enough - it really was that "pinhead/half rice grain off a cocktail stick" dose. I plan to give her a second dose from Friday onwards. Logic tells me that the disappearance of the redness suggests the ivermectin is working, but it's the scratching... Could anyone with experience help me out with this? Really appreciate it, because I'm a bit neurotic over this...

I think I just posted a pic of her taken last Saturday - 2 days after treatment when she still had some sores/redness.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

OK sorry wrong picture... obviously. Not sure how that happened this isn't the Canada goose board. Trying again...

[stepnstone]

I don't know what's with the 1/2 grain of rice dose as
I've been taught to dose at amount of an uncooked grain
of rice??
At any rate she should have another dose 10 days after
and possibly will need a third dose.

And... :Welcome to TSB!

[MJS]

OK sorry wrong picture... obviously. Not sure how that happened this isn't the Canada goose board. Trying again...

DANG!!! I LOOKED FOR 10 MINUTES TRYING TO FIND THE SQUIRREL IN THAT GOOSE PIC!!! JUST KIDDING :grin2

IN MY EXPERIENCE, YOU ARE REALLY NOT LIKELY TO SEE IMPRESSIVE RESULTS AFTER THE FIST DOSE OF IVERMECTIN. THE SECOND DOSE SHOULD BE GIVEN ONE WEEK AFTER THE FIRST, AND THE THIRD ONE WEEK LATER. (EACH DOSE THE SIZE OF AN UNCOOKED GRAIN OF RICE.) I HAVE SEEN NOTICEABLE RESULTS BETWEEN THE SECOND AND THIRD DOSES. IN EXTREME CASES YOU MAY HAVE TO TAKE 2-3 WEEKS OFF AND BEGIN THE 3 DOSE COURSE AGAIN. I HAD TO DO THAT ONCE AND IT WORKED OUT VERY WELL.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Well, reading through the various threads, a couple of people expressed concern about the "grain of rice" reference since a grain of rice is bigger than a "pinhead" (the other reference that tends to be given) and is a bit subjective. One rehabber said somewhere it was more like half a grain of long rice. I also saw a reference to "half a water drop". That's what this squirrel got - the end of a cocktail stick that would fit on a pinhead and half the size of long-grain rice - one grain would have been much more than a pinhead... I'm not sure that's clear at all, but anyway. Pinhead definitely didn't equate with the rice grains I have in my house... and I didn't want to risk overdosing her.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Just saw the other response - thanks! Yes, I can hopefully get the next dose down her on Friday.

[MJS]

I'VE NOTICED THAT SOME HAVE BEGUN TO SUGGEST A 10 DAY PERIOD BETWEEN DOSES...I'VE ALWAYS DOSED EVERY 7 DAYS WITHOUT A PROBLEM. JUST BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE DOSE.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Yes I saw that too (the 10-day thing)... That's why I was thinking I would try Friday at the earliest, maybe Sat (9 days). Don't want to risk missing seeing her for a couple of days though and leaving it too long. All the warnings about dosage are why I was as conservative as possible with that...

[MJS]

I'VE GOT A LITTLE GUY (ABOUT 1 YR OLD) THAT I'M TREATING NOW. HE'S BETWEEN HIS SECOND AND THIRD DOSE AND IS DOING FINE. I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THE 7 DAY SPREAD AND THE SIZE OF THE DOSE WAS THE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

The more I read last week the more neurotic I got... Add to that the fact that my own wildlife center doesn't want to hear about treating in the wild, plus I know another rehabber who was all against treating in the wild (granted, he'd never heard about it or read about it...) and claimed that i could try treating her outside but that the squirrel absolutely had to be weighed first (think about the logistics of that...). You get the picture...

We have brown long grain rice in the house. I just compared it to regular rice in a soup mix and it's good - my rice is... big, twice the size, so we should be good on dosage with the half-grain size. I'll just stick with what I did and try again from Friday. The fact that she didn't keel over and die after the first dose is reassuring to say the least and it's good to hear that they shouldn't be expected to show huge improvements after dose #1 plus her skin definitely looks better... I appreciate this board's existence because I would never have taken the plunge otherwise :)

[TubeDriver]

The more I read last week the more neurotic I got... Add to that the fact that my own wildlife center doesn't want to hear about treating in the wild, plus I know another rehabber who was all against treating in the wild (granted, he'd never heard about it or read about it...) and claimed that i could try treating her outside but that the squirrel absolutely had to be weighed first (think about the logistics of that...). You get the picture...

We have brown long grain rice in the house. I just compared it to regular rice in a soup mix and it's good - my rice is... big, twice the size, so we should be good on dosage with the half-grain size. I'll just stick with what I did and try again from Friday. The fact that she didn't keel over and die after the first dose is reassuring to say the least and it's good to hear that they shouldn't be expected to show huge improvements after dose #1 plus her skin definitely looks better... I appreciate this board's existence because I would never have taken the plunge otherwise :)

If you can get the exact weight of the squirrel, we can provide the EXACT dosage. You will need some propylene glycol because Ivermectin does not dilute well in water.

OR


You can do what most people do which is give orally the amount of 1.87% Ivermectin paste to fill this "o". Repeat the dosing in 10 days and finally you can repeat a third time after 10 additional days.

Some people redose after 7 days, some after 2 weeks, 10 days is a sort of in the middle which is why I would use that interval.

The first does kill all adult mites, the second does kills freshly hatch mites (not affected by the first dose) and the third dose kills any remaining mites in her nest that remain and attempt to bite her.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

That would be the problem... Catching to weigh her. She won't go near a trap even with the tastiest bait... and I'm fighting off other squirrels who will go in when I try. Someone suggested netting but the chances of getting her are well below 50% since she rarely leaves the safety of the tree now (stretches down upside-down to take pecan), then there's the trauma involved in netting... All in all, I doubt anyone is going to weigh her. And even if I could get her to weigh her, I guess I would just go the whole hog and take her to a wildlife center in that case. But this squirrel is older and not feeling good and I just don't think trying to net her is a good plan at all.
I think the dosage was OK - hard to tell with the "o" thing because it depends what kind of screen you're looking at. But it was a "drop" off the end of a cocktail stick that would fit on a pinhead. Like I said, the redness and sores have cleared up so something is right, it was just that bit of scratching still... This is an average-sized fox squirrel, I can't say much more than that weight-wise unfortunately...

[TubeDriver]

That would be the problem... Catching to weigh her. She won't go near a trap even with the tastiest bait... and I'm fighting off other squirrels who will go in when I try. Someone suggested netting but the chances of getting her are well below 50% since she rarely leaves the safety of the tree now (stretches down upside-down to take pecan), then there's the trauma involved in netting... All in all, I doubt anyone is going to weigh her. And even if I could get her to weigh her, I guess I would just go the whole hog and take her to a wildlife center in that case. But this squirrel is older and not feeling good and I just don't think trying to net her is a good plan at all.
I think the dosage was OK - hard to tell with the "o" thing because it depends what kind of screen you're looking at. But it was a "drop" off the end of a cocktail stick that would fit on a pinhead. Like I said, the redness and sores have cleared up so something is right, it was just that bit of scratching still... This is an average-sized fox squirrel, I can't say much more than that weight-wise unfortunately...

After 10 days, dose her with a second dose. That will kill the recently hatched eggs that were on her. That should do it. :thumbsup

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Awesome, I will keep you posted of how things go after dose #2...

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Back with an update on our fox squirrel with mange... and a question:

I ended up giving her dose #2 of ivermectin after 7 days rather than 10 days. This was because the fur loss had been progressing very quickly before the initial dose and then didn't develop at all after the ivermectin was given... until 5-6 days after that dose then, bang, she lost I would say about another 20% of fur pretty much overnight and was back to seeming unhappy after a good few days. I'm assuming that's because the ivermectin had left the system and the hatchlings were out...?
So I gave dose #2 last Thursday. Again, hair loss appeared to stop but then she had so little left by that point (haunches, head + odd patches of fur), it's hard to tell. Definitely no more scratches and sores on her skin and her whole affect is SO much better - eating well, not being scared off by other squirrels, etc. (partly due to warmer weather, possibly). I've seen the odd scratching but nothing like the constant scratching with hair visibly falling out that I saw before the ivermectin was given. Here's the question: approximately how long before we should start seeing some fur regrowth if everything is going right?

Sorry to be so OCD but we've known this squirrel for a long time and we're really anxious to make sure we're doing the right thing!

[TubeDriver]

Back with an update on our fox squirrel with mange... and a question:

I ended up giving her dose #2 of ivermectin after 7 days rather than 10 days. This was because the fur loss had been progressing very quickly before the initial dose and then didn't develop at all after the ivermectin was given... until 5-6 days after that dose then, bang, she lost I would say about another 20% of fur pretty much overnight and was back to seeming unhappy after a good few days. I'm assuming that's because the ivermectin had left the system and the hatchlings were out...?
So I gave dose #2 last Thursday. Again, hair loss appeared to stop but then she had so little left by that point (haunches, head + odd patches of fur), it's hard to tell. Definitely no more scratches and sores on her skin and her whole affect is SO much better - eating well, not being scared off by other squirrels, etc. (partly due to warmer weather, possibly). I've seen the odd scratching but nothing like the constant scratching with hair visibly falling out that I saw before the ivermectin was given. Here's the question: approximately how long before we should start seeing some fur regrowth if everything is going right?

Sorry to be so OCD but we've known this squirrel for a long time and we're really anxious to make sure we're doing the right thing!


You will see it pretty quickly. It is possible that this hair loss is caused by Dermatophytosis. This is a type of skin fungus that should clear up as the weather and food supply gets better. But either way, the Ivermectin probably wont hurt and it still could be mange.

Just keep supplying some food and clean water if possible. You might as well follow through with the third dose in 7-10 days too.

[island rehabber]

Good job, sheffieldst! It appears that she is getting better and, thanks to you, can beat this thing. :thumbsup

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Thanks to both of you, I will keep you posted...!

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

By the way, I did read about that fungus. The only reason I didn't think it was that was the frantic scratching (I read that the fungus itches but less?) and also the wrinkled appearance of the skin - which seems a bit better now with the ivermectin. But yes, I had been wondering about that...

[island rehabber]

By the way, I did read about that fungus. The only reason I didn't think it was that was the frantic scratching (I read that the fungus itches but less?) and also the wrinkled appearance of the skin - which seems a bit better now with the ivermectin. But yes, I had been wondering about that...


:thumbsupthe wrinkled appearance of the skin is a major symptom of mange.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Good, hopefully we're on the right track then... :-)

[MJS]

AS TO THE QUESTION OF WHEN YOU ARE LIKELY TO SEE RESULTS (REGROWTH OF FUR)... I POSTED THIS IN ANOTHER THREAD EARLIER TODAY:

LET ME ADD ANOTHER VOTE FOR TREATING IN THE WILD. I JUST FINISHED TREATING ONE OF OUR REGULAR WILDS FOR MANGE USING IVERMECTIN 1.86%(?) GEL. HE IS THE THIRD OR FOURTH SQ THAT I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY TREATED. WITH ALL OF THEM, THERE WAS LITTLE, IF ANY, NOTICEABLE IMPROVEMENT BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND DOSE...IMPROVEMENT WAS SEEN AT THE TIME OF THE THIRD DOSE AND SIGNIFICANT REGROWTH OF NEW FUR SHORTLY (A FEW DAYS) THEREAFTER. BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE I WOULD GIVE THE FINAL DOSE OF IVERMECTIN ON SCHEDULE AND SEE HOW SHE RESPONDS.

YOU SHOULD SEE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE BY THE TIME THE THIRD DOSE IS DUE AND IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING. :thumbsup

[nkkritters]

Did I miss how you dosed her? Did you put it in food??

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

That's great to hear MJS and that's exactly what I've seen as of today! Our fox squirrel had her second dose of ivermectin last Thursday. No noticeable improvement between first two doses - in fact slightly more hair loss towards the end of the week before dose #2. Today however I could see that "5 o'clock shadow" on her skin - her fur is starting to regrow! Now my only worry is that she took a bad fall this morning from the roof of the house next door - she raced away but I'm hoping there were no internal injuries. As for dosage, I gave her 1.87 ivermectin - pinhead size drop - on a pecan and made sure she ate it both times.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

I have another question: when the fur starts to grow back initially post-mange, does it just look like black skin...? Our fox squirrels got her 3rd ivermectin dose last Thursday. A couple of days before that she had started to show what looked like a sort of "5 o'clock shadow" - so I assumed, hair growing back... By 2 days after dose number 3, it was hard to tell her from the other squirrels from afar because she now looked almost all "grey" (instead of pink/white). I haven't really gotten up close to her since then because I've been focused on making sure she eats and have stayed away.

Well, I just got up really close to her and, to my dismay, it looks like her skin is just black rather than any fur growing back. I did get that impression a few days ago but thought as the fur grew back it would look more... fur-like. Does anyone have any input? I know she got her 3 doses of ivermectin down her. The fur loss stopped at her hind quarters, and that strange crusty/half-closed look she had around her eyes when she first got the mange has gone. But I read that darkening skin was a symptom of advanced mange. This isn't "dark" - this looks black. Suggestions anyone... Could this still be fur growing back. I tried to get a picture but another squirrels intervened and she ran off. I'm concerned because we have another below-freezing night coming up and here was me thinking she now had at least some fur regrowth. Help...

I do have photos from April 5 and April 12 to show how her color progressed. I will try to post those.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Sorry for the upside photos... I have NO idea why that is happening or how to fix it. Hopefully you will get an idea.

[stepnstone]

The other improvements are telling you the treatment
is at least working. I believe what you are seeing with
the change in skin tone is a preliminary stage of the fur
as it emerges through the follicles.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Thank you stepnstone, that is encouraging.... I had read several posts where people were seeing "fuzz" within 10 days and I definitely can't call this fuzz, but the follicle thing makes sense. I also just found another thread (you really wouldn't think I worked for a living, I spend hours on this board for which I am hugely grateful...) where it was stated that some squirrels took longer to regrow and might take up to a couple of months to regrow fully. Her overall energy level is much better too so hopefully you're right...

[California Squirrel Lover]

hi sheffieldstreetsquirrels :wave123 A few years ago, I had a wild female with a pretty bad case of mange, and most of her back was black looking skin with no fur, but with ivermectin she recovered well and fur grew back in. :thumbsup

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Good to know... the thing about this is that the "black" skin started happening after the 2nd dose of ivermectin Do you remember how long it took for the fur to start visibly growing back afterwards with your "black skin" squirrel...? Obviously my worry is that the ivermectin didn't kick in, but as stepnstone said, the other signs seem good. The frantic scratching has gone, the eyes look good, the energy level is better (but then it's been warmer too...). She is now 4 days past ivermectin dose #3 so it would be really good to see some actual fur coming back in.

[MJS]

I ONLY HAVE GREYS TO GO BY, BUT THE FIRST REGROWTH THAT I USUALLY SEE IS LIGHTER IN COLOR THAN THEIR REGULAR FUR...AT LEAST IT WAS ON THIS LAST ONE (LEROY). GIVE IT ANOTHER WEEK OR TWO TO COME IN FULLY. IF THERE'S STILL AN ISSUE, YOU MAY HAVE TO DOSE AGAIN.

[sheffieldstreetsquirrels]

Oh Lord, I hope not... (needing to re-dose)... for the squirrel and for me. I've lived in squirrel vigil land for the past 3 weeks. But yes, I'll just keep watching and if I suspect we may need to re-dose I'll ask on here first and make sure the timing is safe. Ugh. It's just so puzzling that everything else seems better but there's this dark skin thing and no obvious regrowth yet. She's a "mature" squirrel - maybe that has something to do with it. The tips of fox squirrel hairs are black so that might, just might (fingers and toes crossed kind of might) be an explanation.