Lethargic

[Wafflesmom]

My 3 year old is not acting right. I noticed last night that she would not eat her treats. She just stayed in her bed covered up. This morning she would not get up. I just went home for lunch she will come out for a sec but only for a few inches then just lays there and looks at me. Then goes back under cover. I have had her since she was a baby. She is usually very active. I have kept her inside other than the occasional ouoting due to health problems she had as a baby I was unable to release her. I do not know what to even try. Any suggestions?

[CritterMom]

What is her diet? If she is not eating a good quality rodent block as the base of her diet, it is stongly possible she has metabolic bone disease (MBD) - which is treatable if caught early. Please give us her diet.

[Wafflesmom]

She has had MBD as a baby so I am sure it is not that. She usually eats nuts, fresh fruits, vegetables, pumpkin seeds, She gets her Vitamin D drops in her water. She has also has a cuttle bone she like to nibble on.

[CritterMom]

She has had MBD as a baby so I am sure it is not that. She usually eats nuts, fresh fruits, vegetables, pumpkin seeds, She gets her Vitamin D drops in her water. She has also has a cuttle bone she like to nibble on.

No offense but the diet you have outlines screams MBD to me. They need calcium and vitamin D and in fact too much D can be a problem - it is actually used as a rodenticide to KILL rodents. I would start her on calcium immediately - Tums are a good, fast way to get calcium without D into her - available at any drug store - buy the fruit flavor. You want to try to get 500mg into her per day for the first part of the treatment, broken up into as many little doses through the day as you can do. You can dissolve them in water and give by syringe or she may actually LIKE them - my guy considers Tums a huge treat.

I will link our full MBD protocol for you. The additional calcium will NOT hurt her. If we are right she should begin to show improvement in a few days.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?34495-Emergency-Treatment-of-Metabolic-Bone-Disease-(MBD)

[Duckman]

What is the strength of Vitamin D drops? It only takes 300UI to kill a squirrel. Too much vitamin D causes the squirrel to NOT metabolize calcium, so even if you think she is getting enough calcium to ward off MBD, the Vitamin D is actually keeping her from using it correctly. Please immediate stop the drops and start the Tums (without Vitamin D).

You are going to have to change her diet though. She needs to be on a good block with the balanced vitamins and calcium. Henry's Pets has what most of us agree, is the best balanced formula. Even a KayTee rodent block is better than the diet she is on. Nuts and seeds should only be a treat, not a staple. The veggies are good if they are the right ones. Below is the link to the healthy diet. Lastly, a cuttle bone is good, but it should not be the sole means of calcium. Hang in there, we will do our best to help you get your little girl back on her feet.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

[Wafflesmom]

Ok I will try the tums. I am just concerned that this is not the way she acted when she had it before 3 years ago. But if it wont hurt her I will try anything. Thank YOU

[CritterMom]

I have seen more symptoms for what turned out to be MBD that I honestly look first at diet when anyone coes here with anything even close in symptoms.

I just cannor recommend strongly enough that you get either Picky Blocks: http://www.henryspets.com/picky-blocks-adult-formula/

or the MBD kit which includes the Picky blocks, calcium powder, vitamin powder and other stuff: http://www.henryspets.com/mbd-treatment-kit/

2 of those blocks have all of the vitamins and minerals in exactly the proportions they need daily. Ideally they will be a part of her treatment and once she is eating them reliably you will even be able to reduce her daily calcium. Once she is better you will not have to supplement her with anything - no more drops in the water. BTW, the woman who owns this company is a member here. If you dial the number on the website, she will be happy to help you - she is very knowledgable about all of this - she designed this food to deal with this MBD issue, and she may have additional ideas for you.

[Wafflesmom]

I have gone to the site and ordered the blocks. I am just really concerned now. I thought I was doing ok as I got her over the MBD and she has not had any further problems until today. The diet she is on was taken from this website. I love the Squirrel Board. Thank You all for your help.

[farrelli]

Yes, please stop the nuts and D, start calcium, and get the blocks.

Also, has she eaten any acorns lately? We've had serious problems with that this year. They get moldy and the mold is highly toxic.

[Duckman]

Yes, please stop the nuts and D, start calcium, and get the blocks.

Also, has she eaten any acorns lately? We've had serious problems with that this year. They get moldy and the mold is highly toxic.

:goodpost:yeahthat

[CritterMom]

I have gone to the site and ordered the blocks. I am just really concerned now. I thought I was doing ok as I got her over the MBD and she has not had any further problems until today. The diet she is on was taken from this website. I love the Squirrel Board. Thank You all for your help.

That diet - The Healthy Diet - is actually meant to be used in conjunction with these blocks we recommended.

If you can offer her a heating pad - maybe under her sleeping area but not where she could chew it - do so - the bottom heat is very soothing. If she feels lousy she may go off food and water so you are going to have to watch that - dehydration can be a real issue. If she flat out refuses food, pick up a container of Ensure - the human meal replacement shake. High calorie and high in vitamins and minerals and it is sweet so often they like it. You will likely need to syringe feed it.

[Duckman]

That diet - The Healthy Diet - is actually meant to be used in conjunction with these blocks we recommended.

If you can offer her a heating pad - maybe under her sleeping area but not where she could chew it - do so - the bottom heat is very soothing. If she feels lousy she may go off food and water so you are going to have to watch that - dehydration can be a real issue. If she flat out refuses food, pick up a container of Ensure - the human meal replacement shake. High calorie and high in vitamins and minerals and it is sweet so often they like it. You will likely need to syringe feed it.

Most squirrels like the Pecan Ensure or Vanilla.

I never did get an answer on the amount (strength and amount) of the Vitamin D drops. Can you please tell me how much she was getting? This is not to find fault, but to better understand what we are dealing with. No one is here to judge you, but to help you. :grouphug

[Wafflesmom]

I am sorry I havent answered you about the drops, I am at work and have no idea off the top of my head. it is what I started her on when she had MBD before. I will get the bottle when I get home and look at it and let you know.

[TubeDriver]

I am sorry I havent answered you about the drops, I am at work and have no idea off the top of my head. it is what I started her on when she had MBD before. I will get the bottle when I get home and look at it and let you know.

We know you want what is best for your squirrel. :thumbsup Diet can be a tricky thing to get right but if you start the MBD protocol immediately then you can probably save her!

We are all right here to help support you and her through this! :)

[Wafflesmom]

Ok I made a mistake it is not Vitamin D I am giving her it is Wild Harvest Multivitamin drops. This is what is in them: her water bottle is about 14 oz and I put 12 drops in every time I fill the bottle from empty about every 2 days.
Vitamin A ........................ 315,000 IU
Vitamin D3 ...................... 67,500 IU
Thiamine ......................... 31.5 mg
Riboflavin ....................... 42.0 mg
Vitamin B6 ..................... 33.0 mg
Niacin ............................. 232.5 mg
d-Pantothenic Acid ........ 63.0 mg
Choline .......................... 63.0 mg
When reading up on MBD it said that the D3 would help them to absorb the calcium. Is this ok? Also I am still going to go home after work in about 1 hour and start the treatment that ya'll have recommended. Thank YOU.

[stepnstone]

She has had MBD as a baby so I am sure it is not that. She usually eats nuts, fresh fruits, vegetables, pumpkin seeds, She gets her Vitamin D drops in her water. She has also has a cuttle bone she like to nibble on.
Please do not be in denial about mbd, it is so much harder on the older ones.
The Healthy diet starts with:
Squirrel blocks or Rodent blocks
A variety of healthy vegetables
Wild foods from outside
Limited nuts and treats
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

Another very important question...
What type/kind of nuts have you been feeding her???

[Wafflesmom]

She gets about 5 pecans and about 6 or 7 peanuts, and an occasional acorn maybe 1 and this is how many she get in a week. Then she also gets, carrots, broccoli, corn, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, grapes, oranges, apple, sweet potato, celery, radishes, brussell sprouts. However I ordered the blocks from henrys today. So I now will be giving her those also. What else do I need to give her after we get over this.

[CritterMom]

Ok I made a mistake it is not Vitamin D I am giving her it is Wild Harvest Multivitamin drops. This is what is in them: her water bottle is about 14 oz and I put 12 drops in every time I fill the bottle from empty about every 2 days.
Vitamin A ........................ 315,000 IU
Vitamin D3 ...................... 67,500 IU
Thiamine ......................... 31.5 mg
Riboflavin ....................... 42.0 mg
Vitamin B6 ..................... 33.0 mg
Niacin ............................. 232.5 mg
d-Pantothenic Acid ........ 63.0 mg
Choline .......................... 63.0 mg
When reading up on MBD it said that the D3 would help them to absorb the calcium. Is this ok? Also I am still going to go home after work in about 1 hour and start the treatment that ya'll have recommended. Thank YOU.

The blocks you just ordered have the amount of vitamin D that is CORRECT for squirrels - it is one of the reasons we want people to get them - you can do the MBD treatment without having to worry about too much D.

[farrelli]

The Henry's blocks have enough D in them so you won;t need the supplement.

Vitamin D is fat soluble so it build up in the system over time. You should definitely stop them for now. While D is necessary for the body to absorb calcium, too much is very dangerous.

[Wafflesmom]

OK Thank you. When I get the blocks should I discontinue the vitamin drops or should I discontinue them now?

[Wafflesmom]

Sorry just that I should stop them now. She will have tums til the blocks come in and fresh clean clear water only as soon as I get home

[Duckman]

Ok I made a mistake it is not Vitamin D I am giving her it is Wild Harvest Multivitamin drops. This is what is in them: her water bottle is about 14 oz and I put 12 drops in every time I fill the bottle from empty about every 2 days.
Vitamin A ........................ 315,000 IU
Vitamin D3 ...................... 67,500 IU
Thiamine ......................... 31.5 mg
Riboflavin ....................... 42.0 mg
Vitamin B6 ..................... 33.0 mg
Niacin ............................. 232.5 mg
d-Pantothenic Acid ........ 63.0 mg
Choline .......................... 63.0 mg
When reading up on MBD it said that the D3 would help them to absorb the calcium. Is this ok? Also I am still going to go home after work in about 1 hour and start the treatment that ya'll have recommended. Thank YOU.

They do need Vitamin D, but in small levels, and usually this can be supplemented by diet, instead of vitamins. That amount looks really really high, when you consider that 300UI is lethal, when given alone and that is 67,500UI! I would not give her any more of that suppliment. Let her get the Tums for the calcium, and once you get the blocks, that will give her all the vitamin D she needs.

[stepnstone]

She gets about 5 pecans and about 6 or 7 peanuts, and an occasional acorn maybe 1 and this is how many she get in a week.

Pecans are not the best choice nuts to feed captives,
Peanuts are garbage.
Prior to her not feeling well, when did she last get an acorn?

[SammysMom]

This sounds so familiar to me as I just dealt with an MBD squirrel. The little girl that I had was only 6 months old and she was in really bad shape. Your baby is older and has had a bout of MBD already. The fact that she already had MBD makes her more prone to it happening again, so this is very likely the culprit. Stop all nuts for the time being and be sure to spread out the Tums and water mixture over the day as much as possible. You really want to maintain a steady level of calcium in their bloodstream if possible. Ensure would be a good thing to offer via syringe while waiting for the blocks to arrive. You can mix it with a bit of water also to cut the sugar intake and boost her hydration. Personally, I would offer water in a syringe to her often. Dehydration is very dangerous to them when they are not feeling well. Even if you have to add a bit of sugar or juice to the water to entice her to drink it will help. You can also offer watermelon or other things that are mostly water to help with hydration. Many prayers for your little girl...:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[farrelli]

Peanuts are terrible because they contain a lot of phosphorous, which blocks calcium absorption. Corn and pine nuts are also horrible, so never those either.

Yes, please tell us when the acorn was given. She may need treatment if it was moldy.

[Wafflesmom]

She had 1 acorn on Sunday. and before that it was about 2 weeks. I dont know if it matters or not but I bought the acorns from the store not from the yard.

[farrelli]

And how soon after the acorn did symptoms present? Or did they exist prior?

[Wafflesmom]

Just last night I noticed she wouldnt eat a treat and now today she wont come out of her nest or cave she made she has come out 2 times she kinda sits or lays there for a minute and goes back in. looks like she might have drank an ounce of water while I was at work this afternoon 5 hours.

[SammysMom]

Push fluids. Do you have a syringe? Or, as people here will tell you, I have good luck getting Sammy to drink by holding the water bottle up to his mouth and squeezing it so he just has to lick it off of the bottle. It cannot hurt and hydration can help. Drop by drop into the corner of her mouth if that is the way it has to be done. Just get it into her.

[stepnstone]

She had 1 acorn on Sunday. and before that it was about 2 weeks. I dont know if it matters or not but I bought the acorns from the store not from the yard.

Acorns as of late are a real concern but I don't think so in this case,
mycotoxins from acorns do their harm much faster then this.

Stick with the mbd protocol and work to get her calcium levels up
and as mentioned hydration, hydration. :grouphug

[farrelli]

You can also try giving her molasses (best, it contains calcium and other minerals) or another syrup to try to rouse her. If her blood sugar gets low it can set up a downward spiral. It's perked more than a couple squirrels up. Rub it on her gums if she won't lick it off your finger.

[SammysMom]

The effect of hydration on overall well-being is amazing. Seriously, try to get fluids into her as often as you possibly can.