Fox Valley contaminated with metal, particles

[Trooper]

My two female Esatern Grays Scratchy and Runty are having their second babies of their life outside in the wild (of my backyard), coinciding quite well with the average birth dates for spring per Kropowski et.al where births average is on February 27 (out of 86 females sampled in a university study in Arizona), so I got into action preparing lots of nuts, veggies, avocado, corn and Fox Valley infant formula to keep them going strong and helping with milk production.

So serendipitously I prepared today a mix of FV in a mousse ceramic bowl and not wanting to have it spilled over I attached a very strong magnet underneath with a piece of 3M VHB tape (Very High Bond) and magnetically locket it in place to the top of our ceramic tiled BBQ which has a heavy steel plate. This is where they come twice a day to get their nuts and freshies. Everything went well, Scratchy came an lapped the milk leaving none for her sister Runty who also has given birth 1 or 2 days appart. So I rushed to my lab sink to wash the bowl and make a new batch for Runty, and upon rinsing it with tap water, I noticed a certain amount of greyish particles attached on the bowl's bottom, held in place by the magnets force lines. I scraped them out and under microscopic examination, it turned out to be steel or iron particles, very fine of about 50 to 150 microns in size.

The FV powder I have is still in the original bag I got it in, and was purchased about October 2012. Kept it in the freezer from when I released the girls out on Thanksgiving 2012.


Scratchy seems to be doing O.K. and eating well this afternoon, so I am only mentioning this as a link to the earlier thread about FV giving diahrrea to pinkies. I don't know if metalic particles could do that to the tender tiny GI system of a pinky, but I mention it just in case. I sifted the dry FV formula with a magnet wrapped in a plastic baggie and found more metal particles in it. Unfortunately the FV bag I have does not have a batch or date stamp as others did use to come with, so I cannot offer that info, only that it was bought about Sept-Oct., 2012.

Hope that if you have FV in stock, you can do the magnet test and see if it too has the same response as I had.

Regards,

Trooper's dad

[CritterMom]

Metals. Great. I am so disgusted by this company. They HAD a good product and they have just destroyed that and the goodwill of the people who not only bought it but recommended it with every breath they took. I genuinely do NOT think we should be recommending this stuff to anyone for anything (probably work pretty good as sheetrock mud)...

[Mountain Mama]

Oh no! This is TERRIBLE!

(The picture of you with that precious squirrel is great, though!)

[Fireweed]

Thanks, Trooper. I make masks. I'll probably use my left-over FV for plaster. :tilt

That pic of you and your squee is so adorable. If we still had a photo contest, I'd vote for that one! It's a winner! :Love_Icon

[Trooper]

Having raised my Trooper on FV after having so much trouble with the earlier Esbilac formula and later on giving FV to Stratchy, Runty and Blacky (the Three Stoogettes), I feel sorry too to see the contamination. I am not connecting it to the diahrrea issues of these past few months, but just to show that maybe quality control has suffered.

Yes, I have a cousin that takes great pics of my girls and trooper, I can make a great album of them. You can see a sample on this Mixbook.com gift I got for my bday 2013 on Trooper's story and about my Three Stoogettes.
http://www.mixbook.com/photo-books/interests/trooper-friends-9554554?vk=759PD8gn7A

Regards,

Trooper's dad

[SammysMom]

WOW!!! This is very interesting information! Thank-you so much for sharing this!!!
Beautiful pics!!!:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

IT wasn't so much diarrhea in pinkies on FV, it was the opposite: extreme constipation. Basically the stuff does not move thru their tiny bodies at ALL and they die. Metals in their digestive tracts would certainly cause that....no?

I'm with Crit, that I am so disappointed and disgusted with FV. Nick is a sweet man but obviously he has no idea what his son and nephew are doing to the company, and he doesn't have the strength/motivation any more to find out. (He is a different man from who he was before his wife passed away, I'm afraid.) Loyalty to him can't cloud our judgment and put baby squirrels in jeopardy. This metal stuff is very very VERY disturbing!

[Chickenlegs]

As far as I know I haven't had any FV problems--maybe because I use goats milk for the littles. I do use my left overs for making snacks and adding to possum food.

Those are amazing photos!

[Shewhosweptforest]

:shakehead I just "won" a three pound tub of FV in our raffle (plus I have an almost full 1 lb. bag from 9/13) What should I do? :dono My husband does have industrial strength magnets...if I do the Baggie/magnet run through should it be ok to use? I wouldn't use it on pinkies (praying I don't get any :eek) I would follow Kastillo's protocol with Xander. This really disturbs me because I used FV with my possies, who were all strangely compromised. :thinking

[jfischer]

I raised my squirrel on Just Born for Kittens. Before I ever knew there was a TSB or Fox Valley. She is 6 years old now. But there is not more Just Born any where. They must have taken it off the Market. I am not recommending Just Born, but just sharing.

[island rehabber]

sweeper and everyone: let's not panic unnecessarily. With one exception I know of, it has been the pinkies who have extreme difficulty lately with Fox Valley formula. I raised all of mine last year on it (32/40, 20/50 and Ultra Boost) and with the exception of one pinky, all did fine.

[I Love Lucy]

Since Esbilac was replaced with Fox Valley being the recommended formula I have never been satisfied with Fox Valley for pinkies. I have been successfully using a formula combination of 50% Fox Valley 32/40 and 50% Zoologic Milk Matrix 33/40 mixed 1 part powder to 2 1/2 water. I use it for babies aged birth to weaning with no problems at all. Last year I rehabbed over 60 squirrels with no formula issues. It is important to mix any powder thoroughly if it has been sitting for awhile because the heavy particles will settle.

I am alarmed and curious so I am going to check my formulas for metal particles tomorrow.

[psychobird]

Okay I don't know this for sure but is it possible it's minerals that are suppose to be in there?
Has anyone contacted FV?

[Nancy in New York]

sweeper and everyone: let's not panic unnecessarily. With one exception I know of, it has been the pinkies who have extreme difficulty lately with Fox Valley formula. I raised all of mine last year on it (32/40, 20/50 and Ultra Boost) and with the exception of one pinky, all did fine.

We can't forget about fireweed and little Solo, and she's what, around two years old at least?
And your 6 little ones all got diarrhea, now whether that was cocchidia or FV who knows. BUT they
started it here, and I still had the 3 pinkie reds, and they were on GM at the time, and they never got cocchidia. :dono
I had terrible problems with the FV regardless of what I tried, and after losing my little red, Robbie, I NEVER fed
them only FV, because problems would start up again, even when they got older. :shakehead. I ended up feeding them
Esbilac and FV. UGH, and they never looked like the FV babies I've had before. :shakehead

Unfortunately what we learned from us all discussing this, was that it wasn't only pinkies that were having problems,
it seemed like it was right across the board.

For anyone interested, here is a link to the original thread about the concern with Fox Valley.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41878-FOX-VALLEY-amp-PINKIES-Discussion-Thread&highlight=fox+valley

[California Squirrel Lover]

Hi Trooper's Dad! Your pics are priceless, I always love them. :thumbsup :grouphug

[Trooper]

Okay I don't know this for sure but is it possible it's minerals that are suppose to be in there?
Has anyone contacted FV?

Psychobird: all minerals in FV or Esbilac, and for that matter on every and any supplement taken by mammals or cold blooded animals are in the "salt" form or other soluble form, which is not the metal form. As we all know very well all true metals do not dissolve in water very easily. So, whenever we take a pill for iron supplementation for example; it is a salt form and not really the iron your hammer is made off. Only metals made of iron or iron based, like regular steel (which is iron 94%, carbon 2-4%, and balance other stabilizing metals like zinc) but not the common stainless steels used in cuttlery and food handling equipment, are attracted to a magnet.

In fact for the test I did, one does not need a strong magnet, even those magnets from fridge decorations will work with the fine powder I found on my FV.

To all fairness to FV manufacturers, the iron-based filings could have been introduced into the prime matter they use for the formula, through their vendors. This is a constant problem to overcome by companies that process food. It is a quality control strategy that needs to be looked upon, also known as "IQC" or incoming quality control, where the prime matter merchandise is inspected against a company standard specification when it arrives at their docks and it is matched for color, odor, texture, grain of milling, chemical composition (by reactants) and foreign matter contamination (by sifting, magnets, decantation in liquids, etc.).

If FV is a "mom-and-pop" operation, they may have their best interest at heart to do right for our beloved sciuridae species, but perhaps they need to look at some of the quality management factors to make sure things like this do not happen.

Thanks,

Trooper's dad

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Has anyone sent a sample of Fox Valley in to be analyzed? We were just learning the effects of too much copper on the liver in digestive yesterday.

I'd be interested in an actual analysis of the product. This is not good news to hear right before baby season starts. I have my stuff from last year which I didn't have an issue with, but after that runs out....

I am still trying to find something for cottontails. I feel the homemade formula (the powder one with whey protein, goat milk, powdered egg yolk, and vitamins) doesn't have enough fat for bunnies and a fat source that'd be good to add to a powdered formula is hard to find. I'll probably end up getting lard again and mixing that in, but that is really hard to do and I'm not sure how much to add.

[BigNibbler]

Trooper I love the photos and your analytic mind.
Having noticed these bluish particles in FV for a while, and having a very strong magnet that I use for holding various containers to a variety of iron surfaces I could immediately relate to your discovery.

But there are a whole lot of references online to metal particles in food. Not sure how much are absorbed.
If we drink water that is flowing along an iron surface, I believe we will benefit somewhat from those iron molecules that become suspended in the water. Perhaps we would not metabolize them the same way as if they were iron salts but ...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/get-the-iron-out-of-your-breakfast-cereal-bring-science-home/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V265pGgsBnM&noredirect=1

http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/10.1103/PhysRev.48.78

[Trooper]

Trooper I love the photos and your analytic mind.
Having noticed these bluish particles in FV for a while, and having a very strong magnet that I use for holding various containers to a variety of iron surfaces I could immediately relate to your discovery.

But there are a whole lot of references online to metal particles in food. Not sure how much are absorbed.
If we drink water that is flowing along an iron surface, I believe we will benefit somewhat from those iron molecules that become suspended in the water. Perhaps we would not metabolize them the same way as if they were iron salts but ...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/get-the-iron-out-of-your-breakfast-cereal-bring-science-home/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V265pGgsBnM&noredirect=1

http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/10.1103/PhysRev.48.78

BigNibbler: Thank you for liking my pics. we love them too!

About your links and magnetic iron on cereal, please be careful with the source of the information, even if it comes from a reputable scientific magazine. The iron that is soluble for human or mammalian comsumption is a salt of iron and not the metal, and indeed iron salts are magnetic to some extend. Some iron compounds are magnetic, some are not. For example, magnetite is magnetic, hematite is not.

Pure "rust" that forms on a piece of iron when wet or over the years is hydrated iron(III) oxide, and this is not magnetic. The fundamental cause of magnetism is the presence of electron spin, whether in an element or in a compound. Some iron compounds have iron ions with electron spin, depending upon the electron configuration of the iron in the particular compound. Even iron alloys (iron compounds with other metals) are sometimes magnetic and sometimes not. It is hard to give a simple set of rules to predict what the magnetic properties will be.

In my initial post, I did not want to be overly scientific, like on this one, because I was afraid it would fly over most readers heads. The magentic particles I found in my 2012 batch of FV where big enough to be seen under 10x microscope magnification and shun like actaul metal particles and not their magnetic salts. Also another test I performed is a conductivity test, and the result indicated metal form not salt, which is more of an insulator than a aconductor of electricity.

Lastly, I'd like to re-emphasize that real, actual metal particles is a problem for the food industry, addressed by industrial-grade equipment made by companies all over the world which utilize magnets, X-rays, metal detector and infra red smplers or scanners to actually find the metal in pre-processing and post-processing of foodstuff. after all it is not that FV has metal and other food products don't, the point is it should not be there at all.

Let me put it this way: lead metal is not toxic to humans or other invertrebrates if you touch it or even chew it (I used to do it when my dad went hunting and my sibblins competed for the next piece if we could find a lead shot in the piece of game we were eating). But when you mix lead metal or other metals (like cadmium) with an acid (like vinegar from a salad dressing or the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs), the lead reacts and a new compound is formed (lead oxide a.k.a. 'sugar of lead', which is actually sweet like sugar) or in the case of cadmium, oxides that can reach the hexavalent cadmium oxide that are carcinogenic to mammals. these two last oxides (lead or cadmium) are extremely toxic to us and our pets, but only in the soluble "salt" form.

O.K. we know you might have eaten a lead shot just like I did when younger, or swalowed a copper nickel, however these do not stay in our gut too long to form the salt compunds and are excreted along with the salts on your next bowel movement. On the other hand, microscopic size metals like lead, copper, iron, cadmium and other could lodge themselves in the folds and linings of the stomach, duodenum, small and large intestines and react with the food and gastric acids to form long-term production of these heavy-metals salts. After that all bets are off.

In conclusion: mammals were not designed by evolution (or your favorite divinity of choice) to consume heavy or light metals in any metalic form (although as we have ben discussing some of their salts are indeed beneficial to us).

I hope not to have put anyone to slep! (attached pics of Scratchy in her nest eating from the 'dumbwaiter' I made to lift food to her suite. Babies doing fine!)

Regards,

Trooper's dad.

[BigNibbler]

Do you have dumbwaiter design photos or details on here. That is cool. I had thought of doing something like that on a very simple scale like a pulley secured to a limb. But saved the idea in my oversize box of crazy ideas. Real Cool!

Re: Metals, I am not quick to believe anything I read online, uh.. that is why I am questioning this here as well.
So you are saying that the conductivity test you did would not have the same results with the cereal in the link I referenced?
And that the presence of magnetic particles in the cereal is OK, but the fox valley is a problem?
Or are you saying both are a problem.

I had always assumed that the metal was just sales hype and that it would not metabolize effectively. On the other hand, I accepted that metallic compounds in water for example are common.

Is this all wrong, part wrong... ?
I just think to drop this right now, would be most confusing to everyone..
The bottom line is ?

[Trooper]

BigNibbler: yes I can forward a design sketch for the dumbwaiter, it works wonders for my girls.

Well, as you can see, that is the reason I did not want to expand on the magnetic, oxides and the like bnecause there is a bit of misinformation in the marketing of products, the web, WikiPedia and otehr sources of food manufacturing nature. let me answer your last doubts:

1-Metals, I am not quick to believe anything I read online, uh.. that is why I am questioning this here as well.
WONDERFUL THAT YOU QUESTION EVERYTHING YOU READ, INCLUDING TSB. LIKE A RUSSIAN WRITER ONCE TAUGHT RONALD REAGAN: TRUST BUT VERIFY.

2-So you are saying that the conductivity test you did would not have the same results with the cereal in the link I referenced?
THAT IS CORRECT. ALTHOUGH SOME IRON OXIDES ARE ELECTRICAL CONDUCTORS, THEY ARE MORE LIKE SEMI-CONDUCTORS OR PARTIALLY CONDUCTORS. THEY WOULD NOT MAKE A GOOD HOUSEHOLD AC WIRING. ON THE OTHER HAND THE METAL FORM OF IRON IS A GOOD ELECTRICAL CONDUCTOR.

3-And that the presence of magnetic particles in the cereal is OK, but the fox valley is a problem?
FIRST OF ALL WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE CEREAL. ABOUT AN HOUR AGO I DID THE SAME TEST AS THE YOUTUBE VIDEO WITH MY KELLOGS CORN FLAKES FORTIFIED WITH IRON AS INDICATED ON THE LABEL, AND USING TWO OF THE MOST POWERFUL MAGNETS AVAILABLE IN THE MARKET (IRON-BORON-COBALT AND NEODYMIUM GARNET), AND I COULD NOT REPLICATE THE SAME RESULTS. IF THE FLAKES HAD AN IRON SALT, THAT IS O.K. IF FV HAS IRON SALTS TO FORTIFY THE MILK, THAT IS O.K. TOO. WHAT I AM SAYING IS; WHAT I SAW ON FV WAS NOT IRON SALTS, BUT IRON METALS "WHICH IS UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT PART OF THE FORMULA, SHOULD NOT BE THERE AND SANITARY RULES EXISTS IN THE UNITED STATES TO MAKE SURE WE DO NOT INGEST THEM IN ANY FORM, SIZE OR QUANTITY."

4-Or are you saying both are a problem.
WHAT I AM SAYING THE TRUE METAL FORM IS A PROBLEM. THE SALTS ARE NOT, DEPENDING OF WHAT KIND OF SALT AND FROM WHAT METAL IT IS.

5-Is this all wrong, part wrong... ?
ONLY PART WRONG: SALTS OF METALS CAN BE GOOD IF THEY ARE THE RIGHT ONES. METAL PARTICLES OF ANY KIND ARE NOT GOOD, EVER!!!!

6-I just think to drop this right now, would be most confusing to everyone..
I DON'T THINK SO. THE REASON WHY WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT IS BECAUSE OF MISINFORMATION, LACK OF PROPER CHEMISTRY EDUCATION, MARKETING PROPAGANDA, TECHNOBABLE, SNAKE OIL PRODUCTS AND MANY OTHER REASONS WHY A PERSON WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO KNOW EVERYTHING. EDUCATION ON THE SUBJECT COMES FROM DISCUSSING ISSUES LIKE THIS. THE TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT BRUSHING IT UNDER THE RUG.

7-The bottom line is ?
THE BOTTOM LINE IS; WHILE THERE ARE METAL SALTS THAT ARE BENEFICIAL AND NCESSARY TO GROWTH AND HEALTH OF VERTEBRATES AND INVERTEBRATES, THESE METAL SALTS OR THE METAL IONIC STATE, ARE FROM A SELECTED GROUP OF METALS (SINCE OTHER METALS SALTS ARE TOXIC, POISONOUS OR CARCINOGENIC). SOME OF THESE METALS SALTS ARE MAGNETIC. SOME METALS ARE ALSO MAGNETIC. BEING MAGNETIC IS NOT THE ISSUE. THE ISSUE IS INGESTING METALS (NOT THEIR SALTS) IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO A HEALTHY STATE OF THE BODY, ULTIMATELY.

THE FINAL BOTTOM LINE IS: FOODSTUFF SHOULD NOT HAVE "ANY" METALS IN THE METALLIC FORM. PERIOD. FOR A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF WHAT A METAL IS SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metals

Thanks for questioning and veryfying. Please make sure you realize that my use of CAPITALS above was not an internet from of screaming back at you, but solely to make sure you clearly see my replies within your questions.

Regards,

Trooper's dad

[BigNibbler]

Thank you for taking time to elaborate, and to point out that FV now contains solid metal particles which are not present for nutritional purposes and could be harmful.

[DarkLies212]

All that scientific stuff confuses me - is the FV good to use for babies or not? =/ I know the Esbalic with probiotics is good, but are y'all swearing off FV now? I just want to get my facts straight...
Also, is there a sticky with a general protocol for the pinkies/older babies?

[stepnstone]

Thank you for taking time to elaborate, and to point out that FV now contains solid metal particles which are not present for nutritional purposes and could be harmful.
This subject could become a Pandora's box...
I would be careful of spreading allegations that
has yet to be scientifically proven on record.
That's what FDA is for...

[farrelli]

Personally, I would avoid FV at this point. I'd go with GM or Esbilac. I haven't been able to give this thread my full attention, but the first post set off my radar and I was aware of how iron supplements can make people with strong magnets cautious. Perhaps there's an issue with metals, but perhaps not. (I would guess not.) However, the digestive issues are far too common for my taste, and though Esbilac has issues as well, including corporate change, I would prefer it to FV given all the negative feedback about how long FV takes to digest.

Btw, the FDA is for humans, no offense. And even if not, OMG, the issues that it's facing right now in the face of corporate monopolies? Christ, if you eat meat in the US, it's made from one of three corporations, who own the lobbyists, who own the government. I mean, it's illegal now to take photographs of meat industry property with any kind of negative intent. I forget what the legal terms are, and it's totally against the first amendment, but if you take pics of a cow or chicken being tortured or poisoned on its way to being a burger? You're going to jail. Will you win in the end if you have millions of dollars to defend yourself? Almost certainly. But if not? See you in 30 years, if you're lucky. Welcome to the age of people thinking that business shouldn't be shackled by the heavy hand of government. Welcome to the age prior to the great depression.

[stepnstone]

Btw, the FDA is for humans, no offense.

According to its website, "The FDA is a U.S. government agency that oversees medications, food safety, cosmetics, medical and veterinary products and much more. They are "responsible for ensuring that foods are safe, wholesome and sanitary; human and veterinary drugs, biological products and medical devices are safe and effective; cosmetics are safe; and electronic products that emit radiation are safe."

No offence taken, I will not do politics....

[Milo's Mom]

Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever taken a fortified cereal, such as Wheaties, pulverized it into a powder, put it into a plastic bag with some water and a magnet?

If not, please try it and let us all know what kind of results you get.

[stepnstone]

Just out of curiosity, have any of you ever taken a fortified cereal, such as Wheaties, pulverized it into a powder, put it into a plastic bag with some water and a magnet?
If not, please try it and let us all know what kind of results you get.
Please do not think of me as included or supporting this forum's subject matter.
It's not my argument...
I have not reared pinkys but all my babies have thrived beautifully
without incident on FV.

[farrelli]

Well, don't deliberately walk into the middle of a dance floor and then say that you didn't mean to be there and don't have any rhythm. Shake your money maker baby! Its your right! (And I would argue your responsibility as a citizen.)

As I was kind of alluding to, the FDA goes to the highest bidder. There used to be a time, and still is, when it was all about welfare, but now the most attention/approval goes to he who provides the money. Now, the cracked corn that I buy for an ingredient to my waterfowl mix is RIDDLED with sticks, and rocks, and all manner of foreign objects. And the drugs for animals are FULL of impurities. If there were such glaring problems for human products, well, it would (and does) take a lot of money to paper that over, so it doesn't occur as much. Pet food made in China and "flavored" with the sweetness of lead, like we're in the middle ages? Well, sure, that's OK until too many pets die. But a kid or two? That gets too much attention. Society no longer seems to be in the business of right or wrong. It's in the business of whether your wrongdoing is flagrant enough to draw too much attention as to make it unprofitable.

Btw, you should look into the unseemly matter of human drug approval these days. It brings around a billion dollars into the company I work for, annually, and is a total disgrace.

Btw, we're not even a drug company! We're a university/research centre!


According to its website, "The FDA is a U.S. government agency that oversees medications, food safety, cosmetics, medical and veterinary products and much more. They are "responsible for ensuring that foods are safe, wholesome and sanitary; human and veterinary drugs, biological products and medical devices are safe and effective; cosmetics are safe; and electronic products that emit radiation are safe."

No offence taken, I will not do politics....

[Milo's Mom]

Please do not think of me as included or supporting this forum's subject matter.
It's not my argument...
I have not reared pinkys but all my babies have thrived beautifully
without incident on FV.


Relax Step. :peace

It was a general use of words referring to the general population of TSB or anyone that took the time to read. If I was talking to someone specifically I would have quoted (as I just did :tilt) or I would have listed the names. It was just a general statement of me being curious if anyone has ever done this elementary level science experiment and if so what were their results.

Also, I was curious to see how many people would be smashing bags of Wheaties today. :icon_devil

[RamaMama]

Hello Trooper,

Your information is very interesting.

Just putting this out there as something I feel is very important.

With the accidental 'tests' of the magnets and viewing through the microscope,
coupled with your scientific knowledge, would it not be worth while to write all of
this and send the occurrence and the information to Nick with the kindest regards
and best interest towards our squirrels and the product FV? If you still have the
metal send it along too.

He should be kindly informed if he has not as yet.

Just my thoughts on this subject.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Well all science and politics aside :thinking I'm a simple country girl :grin3 and I like it that way...but I do "know" that "unfortunately" money (and who it comes from) does drive inquiries and inspections in the direction it desires. I also know impurities are in most food stuffs...if anyone has ever read Consumer Reports declarations of what they have found in various products they've inspected :eek floor sweepings, mice feces..etc. :yuck This metal could come from wear and tear in the equipment used in the processing of the product....who knows....I'm just glad to know about the "possibility" because the "knowing" is half the battle. I've never had any difficulty either, as Step stated, with my young squirrels and FV (no pinkies) I think I will just use a magnet to separate anything I can from the powder, just to be on the safe side :thumbsup I can't control what they will "nibble" on later :eek but this I can.

Thank you Trooper for sharing your findings....I appreciate it....and as always I'm amazed at the analytical minds here at work :dono you guys "stump" me :grin3 My brain operates in an entirely different manner...my brain works with my senses...visual, auditory ....and also visceral (gut feelings) whimsy, also! But I'm a great believer, also! I think variety is the spice of life and not just cliche! I just wish I could spend a day :thinking...lets make that an hour :) in your thought processes :thumbsup If you were to check mine out...you'd probably think you were on drugs :eek :bowdown :Love_Icon

Oh...and I think RamaMama had a good point about bringing this to the attention of FV. :thumbsup

[stepnstone]

Well, don't deliberately walk into the middle of a dance floor and then say that you didn't mean to be there and don't have any rhythm. Shake your money maker baby! Its your right! (And I would argue your responsibility as a citizen.)

This tactic don't work for me anymore then any "rhythm" I might have on a "dance floor" if I don't choose to dance.
I personally can not attest to this allegation being true or false on one man's findings anymore then I can confirm if this was an isolated incident or wide spread. :dono
You may argue that which you think is my "responsibility as a citizen" but I choose my accountability, my right to enter the dance floor also retains the right to exit if I don't care for the beat.

My personal choice not to jump on a bandwagon has little to do with the occupants and everything to do with validation that the wheels will hold the weight.



Also, I was curious to see how many people would be smashing bags of Wheaties today. :icon_devil

I'm more curious how many are running magnets through their FV today... :rolf

RamaMama (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/member.php?7532-RamaMama) & Shewhosweptforest (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/member.php?13277-Shewhosweptforest)
Excellent points! :goodpost ...IMO. :hidechair

[Charley Chuckles]

LG will be 3 this summer, she has been raised every day of her life on FV and still takes it in a syringe every morning...I just got a new bag of FV day one haven't even opened it yet, I hope I am not going to be sorry :shakehead:thinking:dono She has always done good, but her bag was older so not sure :tinfoil