frozen acorns kill squirrels

[TubeDriver]

Unikorngirl from Squirrel Nation fed some almost ready for release squirrels some frozen acorns she had. Within 48 hours, 6 of her squirrels were dead. She broke up 4 acorns and found some type of mold growing in 2 of them.

I bring this up not as recrimination since Unikorngirl is as dedicated to and loving of squirrels as anyone but rather as a warning for all to keep in mind. Six healthy, happy babies dead in a manner of hours. What a tragic and sad accident. :(

[Nancy in New York]

How terribly sad. We have always been told to freeze nuts,
but this has nothing to do with freezing them, right?
Do you know if she put them in water first to check if they sink or float.
How tragic, this is just heartbreaking!

[SammysMom]

Thank-you TD. You letting us know this may save one of our babies and it gave me the chance to give my sympathies to Uni. As I said to her, though we may not have always agreed, all of us can empathize with this terrible tragedy.

[island rehabber]

How awful. Please give Uni my deepest, deepest sympathy.

It is possible that we should begin slicing frozen acorns the same way we slice frozen chestnuts, to ensure that they have not molded inside.

Losing pre-release or just-released babies this way is a tragedy that no rehabber will ever forget; all one's successes and joys are forever diminished by this one sadness. I once lost five at once to mycotoxins in their nest box; I feel Uni's pain so much...:sad

[California Squirrel Lover]

Such incredibly sad news, I'm so, so sorry :(

[TubeDriver]

How terribly sad. We have always been told to freeze nuts,
but this has nothing to do with freezing them, right?
Do you know if she put them in water first to check if they sink or float.
How tragic, this is just heartbreaking!

Unikorngirl did freeze the acorns. They were fairly old (almost a year?) but had been frozen the whole time. I dont know if she tested them in water.

This mold killed them in hours, it must be very toxic and deadly. :(

[SammysMom]

Uni is very glad that this was shared here. She just hopes that sharing it prevents anyone else from ever having this terrible tragedy happen to their loved littles. I told her she has many prayers from TSB tonight.

[Nancy in New York]

Uni is very glad that this was shared here. She just hopes that sharing it prevents anyone else from ever having this terrible tragedy happen to their loved littles. I told her she has many prayers from TSB tonight.

Uni is still a member here!
I'm glad that somebody shared this information.
Did we share this with the rest of the board?
I would like to think when we are saving squirrels lives
anything we find out here could and would be shared on the other board as
well.
And I for one would really appreciate anything there be shared here too!
Thank You Tube Driver.
Now lets alert the board, shall we?

[SammysMom]

OMG! It never occurred to me that this was Triage! It should definitely be on the open board. Good catch Nancy!

[kastillo]

Oh my God , no, this is horrible, poor Uni.... poor Uni's baby's .... I know how much she loves them all...

I've fed frozen acorns and never had this happen.... I'm.. just at a loss.... this is tragic

[SammysMom]

Do you think it would be okay to move this thread into the open in its entirety? If so, where to?

[island rehabber]

I would put it in Emergency, and then stick the thread.

[sassysquirrel]

OMG!!! I feed frozen acorns all the time. I will definitely be cutting them open from now on.

This is so sad. So sorry this happened:grouphug


What about other nuts that have been frozen? Do we need to check all nuts?
What about black walnuts or hickory nuts? you know sometimes how they are all dired up inside? Could this hurt the squirrels? Do I need to crack all nuts before giving them?

[Charley Chuckles]

There is a name for the Disease that a bad nut has...but I can't remember it right now :sanp3....I was always very leery to give CC any acorns because of it

[SugarBugFerret]

Wow. This is just so terrible! Poor Uni...she must be absolutely beside herself! :Cry I will pray for comfort and peace for her. This kind of thing just makes me wonder though... How would a wild know which are safe to eat? If they can't tell, then wouldn't we have crazy unexplained deaths occurring fairly regularly? And if they can, why do they eat the bad ones in captivity? I am surrounded by oak trees. My local squirrels eat jillions of them. Geez...I am going to start worrying about them eating acorns in my yard... RIP little squirrelies. No question in my mind that in Uni's care, you were surrounded by love. :sad

[Charley Chuckles]

Still can't remeber what it is called (a rotten nut) but here is a point to ponder....
Have you ever felt sick after eating nuts that looked and tasted seemingly OK? Chances are that the nuts you ate were contaminated even before signs of spoilage were evident. The health effects of eating rotten nuts can be avoided by practicing good food safety methods. These will not only help to prevent spoilage but will also ensure you to enjoy the protein rich nuts cat all times. Let's do our bit and learn about the food safety of nuts by reading the blog below.






Causes Of Spoilage

Mold growth due to improper storage is a big concern.

Contamination by salmonella bacteria which makes the fatty acids rancid, is also a common cause.


Health Problems Caused By Rotten Nuts

If the nuts crack during processing, it can cause seepage of water which results in growth of salmonella bacteria. It causes nausea, vomiting, pain in the abdomen and fever. It can get quite severe in the case of children and the elderly who do not have a very strong immune system.

Aspergillus mold grows on nuts like peanuts and pistachios. Lung infection, tuberculosis and liver damage can occur by the growth of toxins that this mold produces. It grows best in warm temperatures, so temperature control is an important factor.

E coli can contaminate pecans on the field, as it is present in impure and feces infested water. Severe diarrhea, vomiting and nausea is the result.


Tips To Identify Rotten Nuts

Look for best before dates on the package.

Chipped and brittle nuts indicate spoilage.

A foul smell means the fats have turned rancid.

Visible mold growth shows infestation and is a sure sign of rotting.




Delicious nuts can be enjoyed by taking a little care. Practicing food safety certainly has its benefits. Don't you agree?

Read more at http://www.ifood.tv/blog/health-effects-of-eating-rotten-nuts#HDTa6eL6zG8lBYC0.99

[SammysMom]

Is it mycotoxins Abby?

[Charley Chuckles]

Is it mycotoxins Abby?

Sorry that doesn't ring a bell. it like starts with a "F" but with my mind that could easily be a "C" :tilt

[Shewhosweptforest]

:eek I have bags of frozen acorns from last year ...I put them out for the wilds and give them to Baby, Nougie and Sweet P ....if you cut them in two and they are ok ...use them? Or should I just toss them out? :shakehead Uni must be devastated :shakehead :Love_Icon Uni :Love_Icon

[Charley Chuckles]

OK this is not the word, but rancid is as close as I can get to it right now :tilt

[TubeDriver]

Sorry that doesn't ring a bell. it like starts with a "F" but with my mind that could easily be a "C" :tilt

Aflatoxin?

[jbillings]

I found this article as I was searching for any info I could find on the subject. It talks about cows eating the acorns but we all know that our sweet little furballs with their tiny little bodies could not fight off this toxin the way that a huge cow could! This is so scary and makes me not want to ever feed my babies shelled nuts again!

http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php?view=article&catid=39:feeding-facts&id=355:november-2007-feeding-facts&option=com_content

[Charley Chuckles]

Aflatoxin?

THANK GOD I was going CRAZY (a short drive however) and it is anaphylactic shock I was thinking of ... is a serious allergic reaction that is rapid in onset and may cause death. It typically causes a number of symptoms including an itchy rash, throat swelling, and low blood pressure. Common causes include insect bites/stings, foods, and medications. On a mechanistic level, anaphylaxis is caused by the release of mediators from certain types of white blood cells triggered either by immunologic or non-immunologic mechanisms. It is diagnosed on the basis of the presenting symptoms and signs.

[Charley Chuckles]

I found this article as I was searching for any info I could find on the subject. It talks about cows eating the acorns but we all know that our sweet little furballs with their tiny little bodies could not fight off this toxin the way that a huge cow could! This is so scary and makes me not want to ever feed my babies shelled nuts again!

http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php?view=article&catid=39:feeding-facts&id=355:november-2007-feeding-facts&option=com_content

Yes, basically it is a toxic poison to the system...I never gave CC a cracked acorn , and after all the things I saw could happen (not to mention he would pee red which scared the bageebies outta me) I pretty much didn't give him any, only here and there, LG and Simon get none /nothing/nada in the acorn department :tilt

[Unikorngrrl]

This is what I posted on SN about it...

"VERY SADLY, I must share my latest experience. I fed my releasables acorns that I froze last year straight out of the freezer. About 36 hrs later (early Friday morning) I found 1 squirrel dead, mid day I found 3 more dead, evening I watched 1 die and at about 5am (Saturday morning) I watched Cayde die too. I lost a total of 6 squirrels and the ONLY thing we can figure is the acorns. I cracked 4 and 2 of those had mold in them.

The squirrels in the releasable room were the only ones to get sick. They have eaten and been exposed to EVERYTHING exactly the same as the sqs in my bedroom (NRs and flyers) EXCEPT for those acorns. I only put them in that room.

I've honestly kept it rather quiet b/c I know what people tend to say, but I am horribly heartbroken and hoping that for those who knew about acorns that this is a reminder and for those who didn't that it is a warning. My babies were growing up beautifully and have been wonderfully healthy. They all look great. I feel horrible, it truly makes me ill... :tears :cryinbigtime :tears :cryinbigtime :tears :cryinbigtime

It's been about 21 hours since anyone died so I hope with every ounce of my being that all who ate them have beaten it and that my remaining babies will be alright. I've just checked on all of them, given them all kisses, and put them back to bed.

This CANNOT be something that is contagious b/c I constantly go room to room with the same clothes on and my NRs go in there to play, and some of the releasables come in here to play at times too. A contagion would have gotten to all of my angels, not just the ones in that room."

And I contacted Leigh (Henry's) about it. She asked some questions and I answered via email. It answers most of your questions.

"Yes, I collected the acorns from the ground last year. I researched online how to store them (well before I ever found TSB) and I floated them in water, removed the ones that floated and froze them. This was the first time they had been out of the freezer so the mold
had to be there before I picked them up off of the ground. It was the time of year that they fall so they couldn't have been on the ground for long. I picked the moldy ones up out of an apartment complex parking lot. I took a pic of the one that I cracked the day
they started dying. I'll attach it to the email. I still have the bag of the rest of them. I'll try to crack more and get you some pics of
the mold when I first open them b/c it was still fuzzy before it dried over night. I'm still trying to collect myself so give me a few days. I haven't lost any for 38 hours so hoping it stays that way. No one else appears ill and I have them all caged and watching them in that room (the ones that i fed those acorns to).

I didn't see 4 of them die, I found them dead already, but I watched 2 die. I found my little boy on the floor very weak. He was kind of gasping for air like he was already dying and shortly after he did. I tried subQ fluids and ABs but he was already too far gone before I
found him really. When I found him, I noticed Cayde was REALLY fluffed up (like a sick bird) and I caged him, gave him subQ fluids and ABs. I watched and waited as he got weaker and weaker and died. He was vomiting when I put him in the cage. I caged him about 5 PM and at 5 am he died. Foamy vomit at the end, but it started as food he had eaten. They were all exceptionally healthy... I didn't notice a fever but research says they probably spiked one. My Vet is out of town until Monday so I haven't seen her yet. I couldn't find anyone else to see them here.


In short. Fluffed up started. Then vomiting. Gradually weaker and still vomiting. No seizures. Then death... I did notice that some
of the ones in the room (still alive and some of the dead ones), their fur around their genital area looked like it had been wet (it was dry but stuck together, separated) and had an orange-ish tint. The ones that peed on me while giving meds, their urine smelled really strong.

None of my sqs had diarrhea. Poops were still good. I did not find vomit anywhere else in the room. And EVERYTHING except the acorns were in my bedroom (I have 3 NR greys and 11 flyers and 1 chippie in my room) too. It could NOT be a contagion b/c I constantly cross contaminate the rooms and my NRs go in that room and those escape and play back here a lot. They are always intermingled. They all died within a 25 hour window. Approximately 36 hours after I fed the acorns, I found the first one dead.

Sorry this isn't very organized. I just wanted to try to make sure I included everything. If I think of anything else, I'll send it with pics when I crack more acorns to get the fuzzy mold photos. Hope this helps other babies, b/c it had made me literally ill. I love
them all so very much..."


If I decide that anything else is useful I'll post it. And the other photos...This is a pic of the one that dried over night.

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/rossln/0119140133_zpsdbb129e6.jpg (http://s1017.photobucket.com/user/rossln/media/0119140133_zpsdbb129e6.jpg.html)

[Baxied]

:grouphug:grouphug I am so sorry! Thank you so much for sharing. I have a bag of frozen acorns that I will most certainly toss in the garbage now.

[squirel]

I have always been told that you should eat everything that comes out of the freezer in the next 24 hours and never to refreeze stuff that comes out of the freezer . And to toss away everything from your freezer if it stops to work for some time or you leave the door open for to long .
If that's right it could be that the acorns have been out of the freezer for to long or it could be that Uni's freezer stopped to work without her noticing and in that case she could have a lot of rotten ( human and animal ) stuff in her freezer and risk big problems . For what I know you don't notice the food is rotten , but it's bad to eat .
Could someone please tell this to Uni just in case !!!!!!
So sorry for the little ones

[island rehabber]

So, so sad....none of us who loves and raises squirrels should ever have to go thru this. :(

Remember also, folks, that freezing does not kill mold or bacteria in food. It merely puts it 'in stasis'. Once the food thaws, molding begins again, immediately. Refrigeration slows the process and freezing stops it, but only until thaw. :(

[Charley Chuckles]

Unikorngrrl I am heartbroken for you :grouphug I use to freeze and give them to CC a lot, I was just lucky that I didn't have moldy ones. I had never know about this, in fact I assumed if the nut was bad CC wouldn't eat it also thought if I froze them they would stay good, but not if they were already molded, and I never realized that either till one day I saw long ago it happened to someones squirrel :sanp3

[island rehabber]

Some good, user-friendly info and instructions on acorns here; I just learned a thing or two for sure:

http://www.eattheweeds.com/acorns-the-inside-story/

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I was under the impression that the acorns on the ground would not be good, to always take them right from the tree.
I know this is harder, but wasn't this written some where on here?
I had ordered acorns once from, www.acorno.com/ and 3/4 of them were floaters, never ordered again and didn't use them.
It is just impossible to know when something like this is going to happen. Uni my heart goes out to you ...........RIP babies
This is also a reminder that squirrels , while still in our care, do not have the natural instinct as to what is bad for them like the ones out side. This has nothing to do with our raising, and hopefully it kicks in after being outside for a while.
I do not give my NR's ANYTHING from outside that cant be baked in the oven at 200 for and hour. No bugs, slugs, muck nothing.
I don't release so I don't know what to do for them, this is a learning process for all of us as we all want what is best for all babies that come our way.
Bless you Uni for being brave enough to come forward and tell us, you are my hero for this week !!!

[CritterMom]

I have posted this before - I live in a place where oaks are king, so most years have many acorns (that does not count this past year where I had none!!)

They are more similar to chestnuts than you might thing. Cut open an acorn and you will find a sort of wet, fibrous heart that is sort of like stringy chestnut - it is nothing like the dry tree nuts like pecans, etc. Furthermore, the shells often have holes and split that outside moisture can get into. So you are looking at "wet" nuts that have kind of weak shells. That last part means that any time spent laying on the damp ground is just opportunity for mold to get inside.

When the acorns are in season, I usually lay a tarp down on the grass under one of the oak trees in the early evening, and go out in the morning and pick up what has fallen on the tarp overnight. They are green and just released from the tree - they have never touched the ground. They get examined for holes and splits, thoroughly washed, and frozen while still green. Needless to say, power outages mean problems as they need to remain frozen.

But given all of that, I will also begin to chop them in half before feeding them.

I am so sorry for what Uni went through. The mold in these things can be so very toxic...:grouphug

[TubeDriver]

Uni - Thanks for posting this info. I am so sorry this happened.:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you Uni for posting this experience, as heartbreaking as it must be to relive,
this will most likely save the lives of many many little squirrels.
I am deeply sorry for your loss. :grouphug

[Rhapsody]

The name for this issue with Nuts is ........ Aflatoxin
it has been a concern in the Sugar Glider World for years, thats where I first hear about it.

Glider Central --has an article on how to cut down on this problem !
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=69760

[Unikorngrrl]

NiNY asked if I handed to them individually or how I dispensed them. I don't cage them, they run free 24/7 in their room. I built a table that I put all of their bowls and such on. I just poured enough for the 20 squirrels to each get a 2 or 3 each. (*NOTE: My babies do not get nuts daily or even weekly. So when I do break down and give them nuts every couple of weeks, they get 2 or 3 at a time. I do not give 2 or 3 nuts per day.)

I am watching the thread, thank you all for the kind words. I am monitoring though to be sure to answer any questions on the subject and even hoping someone will have a question that we haven't thought to ask yet.

I also noticed that someone (sqs chewed laptop charged, can't see who on my phone) mentioned the possibility that they had defrosted and been refrozen at some point. To my knowledge they have not been defrosted since I froze them.

Some research that I did also showed several other toxins that are waste products of the mold once it progresses to a certain point. Vomitoxin was one that I found rather interesting since Cayde vomited like he did. Anyway. You have all of the info I do at this point...

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you for clarifying.
Perhaps this is a myth then. I had asked Uni if she handed them the nuts individually since I had heard with a captive squirrel to always offer at least two nuts and let them chose the one the want, because squirrels can tell a bad nut. The theory goes, since they look at us as their "protectors", they believe that whatever we hand them is safe and will even eat a bad nut.

When I used to feed tons of squirrels on my deck,I would throw out pecans by the handful. I noticed at least 6 different squirrels one after one smelling and then rejecting this one large nut. I went outside to collect it after a while, and it was cracked, it looked ok inside, but it was a curious observation. :dono

[CritterMom]

Thank you for clarifying.
Perhaps this is a myth then. I had asked Uni if she handed them the nuts individually since I had heard with a captive squirrel to always offer at least two nuts and let them chose the one the want, because squirrels can tell a bad nut. The theory goes, since they look at us as their "protectors", they believe that whatever we hand them is safe and will even eat a bad nut.

When I used to feed tons of squirrels on my deck,I would throw out pecans by the handful. I noticed at least 6 different squirrels one after one smelling and then rejecting this one large nut. I went outside to collect it after a while, and it was cracked, it looked ok inside, but it was a curious observation. :dono

Yes, but you will note that she said they don't get nuts very often. I think when they have free choice of lots of nuts - like you have when they start to fall from the trees in the autumn, they examine and get quite picky. But I bet they eat a lot more "marginal" nuts when there are not that many to choose from. Not that you want to give your squirrels unlimited nuts, but it sure is a reason to closely examine what you turn over to them and how you store.

[pappy1264]

This is heartbreaking. I have stopped feeding acorns. I had noticed my outside squirrels would examine them and then drop them. I thought 'are they being picky or do they know something I do not?' I tossed all I had. I know they have a much higher risk of aflotoxin then many other nuts. My heart goes out to you, Uni. I cannot even imagine.:Love_Icon

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I had noticed we had terrible acorns the past 2 years, very small, my wilds go through many many many before they find one to actually eat.

[bamababies]

I just had my boys pick up acorns yesterday for my flyers, I have washed them and none floated. Now I am concerned to feed them to my babies. They were on the ground probably a month but I check a few for the color inside they look fine. I have not feed them any yet, should I crack each one before I feed them or just throw them back out? Acorns are their favorite treat but they can learn to love almonds or hazel nuts.

So sorry for your loss Uni :grouphug

[Unikorngrrl]

bamababies...you know how the panic gets when something horrible like this happens...I'm not sure what to tell you. I've heard to float them (that's what I did), I've heard to ONLY get them off of the trees, not after they fall to the ground, I've heard to freeze them, I've heard to only feed them when they're fresh and "in season" b/c they are seasonal, and last night I heard to bake them before you freeze them.

Apparently, from what I understand researching, mycotoxins are the waste product (poop) of the mold once it gets to a certain point. There is no treatment for it. Other than that, I suppose the decision is up to you. I have GALLONS of the large Burberry acorns frozen that I took directly off of the trees, but I still haven't decided whether to trash them or feed them or bake them or what...I do normally end up erring on the side of caution...better "no harm, no foul" than "hind sight is 20/20" IMO.

OH and also, I'm concerned with the fact that you can't kill the actual toxin. Will baking it actually remove the toxicity?!? I'm not thinking so, but it's a good question for one of the microbiologists/biologists.

[CritterMom]

bamababies...you know how the panic gets when something horrible like this happens...I'm not sure what to tell you. I've heard to float them (that's what I did), I've heard to ONLY get them off of the trees, not after they fall to the ground, I've heard to freeze them, I've heard to only feed them when they're fresh and "in season" b/c they are seasonal, and last night I heard to bake them before you freeze them.

Apparently, from what I understand researching, mycotoxins are the waste product (poop) of the mold once it gets to a certain point. There is no treatment for it. Other than that, I suppose the decision is up to you. I have GALLONS of the large Burberry acorns frozen that I took directly off of the trees, but I still haven't decided whether to trash them or feed them or bake them or what...I do normally end up erring on the side of caution...better "no harm, no foul" than "hind sight is 20/20" IMO.

OH and also, I'm concerned with the fact that you can't kill the actual toxin. Will baking it actually remove the toxicity?!? I'm not thinking so, but it's a good question for one of the microbiologists/biologists.

I can answer that last part - no, baking won't kill the toxin. It is why you still sometimes hear about problems in peanut butter with humans - it is made from dry roasted peanuts but if the aflatoxin is present, the roasting doesn't matter. In my opinion, acorns have gotten as close to the "do not feed" list as they can get. All of my guys are meh on them anyway.

[bamababies]

I think it would be best for the babies then to toss the acorns, I would rather be safe than sorry. :Love_Icon

[Milo's Mom]

I collect acorns every year and I do float them, then I dry them on cookie sheets in the sun or on the counter, then I freeze them. I noticed that several of you say you also float them. From my research the floaters are the bad ones. The floaters have a hole somewhere and air got into the nut...air being lighter than water makes the nut float, floating is bad. I tested this by putting all of the floaters on a tray and the sinkers on another tray...the wilds ate all of the sinkers and ignored the floaters. At my house all of the floaters and mid-lines (the ones that are suspended in mid water) get thrown into the garbage can. Sinkers are dried and frozen.

Just sharing my experiences.

EDIT: Uni, I am so very sorry for your loss.

[Duckman]

Where my babies are concerned, and I am responsible for their well being, I won't feed them acorns at all. There are other things they like, and since none have been in the wild, they don't even know what they are missing. Pecans, walnuts, almonds, veggies, and fruits they love, and I always have an abundance of. Why risk it? Just my opinion, but my babies will stay safe and I will love on them through a long life! :grin3

[Duckman]

Sorry, double post. *Sigh*

[TubeDriver]

I collect acorns every year and I do float them, then I dry them on cookie sheets in the sun or on the counter, then I freeze them. I noticed that several of you say you also float them. From my research the floaters are the bad ones. The floaters have a hole somewhere and air got into the nut...air being lighter than water makes the nut float, floating is bad. I tested this by putting all of the floaters on a tray and the sinkers on another tray...the wilds ate all of the sinkers and ignored the floaters. At my house all of the floaters and mid-lines (the ones that are suspended in mid water) get thrown into the garbage can. Sinkers are dried and frozen.

Just sharing my experiences.

EDIT: Uni, I am so very sorry for your loss.

Just a heads up, Uni also floated her acorns before freezing and we know what happened. It might be possible that Uni lost power at some point and her acorns thawed out or something else but floating may not be a perfect test.

[MiriamS]

Uni, I am so sorry for your massive loss. My heart goes out to you. :Love_Icon

When you opened up the other acorns, what did they look like? Were they full of dark crumble?

I give my flyers frozen acorns all of the time and sometimes they won't eat one. When I open it, it's rotten, which tells me they can tell somehow.

I'll be cracking all of the acorns in half from now on just to be sure. I still think it's an important part of their diet.

[stepnstone]

I tested this by putting all of the floaters on a tray and the sinkers on another tray...the wilds ate all of the sinkers and ignored the floaters.

Somewhere I have heard wilds won't eat an acorn that have been on the ground over 24 hours.
Don't know how factual that is but many times in the forest I have seen the ground laden with
beautiful acorns and foraging squirrels ignoring them. I have even tested a few on my wilds and
watched as they pick one up, roll it around, and then throw it down.


I collect acorns every year and I do float them, then I dry them on cookie sheets in the sun or on the counter, then I freeze them.


Having them thoroughly dried before freezing just makes good sense. :thumbsup

[PennyCash]

[QUOTE=stepnstone;972919]Somewhere I have heard wilds won't eat an acorn that have been on the ground over 24 hours.
Don't know how factual that is but many times in the forest I have seen the ground laden with
beautiful acorns and foraging squirrels ignoring them. I have even tested a few on my wilds and
watched as they pick one up, roll it around, and then throw it down.


You might be on to something.
My ground is littered with acorns right now and I watch the squirrels foraging for anything other than the acorns. When they were first starting to fall there was a free for all and now they want nothing to do with them. :dono

[Unikorngrrl]

Uni, I am so sorry for your massive loss. My heart goes out to you. :Love_Icon

When you opened up the other acorns, what did they look like? Were they full of dark crumble?


Thank you Miriam. When I cracked the first one, it looked normal other than somw white on the tip on the outside and a little on the acorn. The white wiped off with my finger and frozen was kind of powdery. The 2nd one I opened with the white on it was fully coated in fuzzy grey mold. The pic is of that one after a day of drying out in the trash can. I'm going to crack more and try to get some pics of them when I first open them. I'll crack some when I fell up to screwing with it.

[Unikorngrrl]

A few of the last pictures didn't upload b/c my sd card is messed up. I kept everythimg so let me know if these aren't sufficient. None of them really looked bad, but I tried to pick the worst looking ones to open. Some were good and some were bad.

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/rossln/0122140441_zps8e381dc4.jpg

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/rossln/0122140443_zps0767f001.jpg

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[Shewhosweptforest]

Thanks Uni ...I know this must be so hard to keep revisiting and opening your wounds :shakehead I'm crying with ya girl :Cry

Thank you for sharing :bowdown :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Chickenlegs]

I guess a squirrel's instincts cover a lot of ground but I they must learn some things by observation of other squirrels and what foods to avoid is apparently one of those things. As hard as it is to share this sort of experience, you've saved lives. Thank you SO much.

[farrelli]

It really is a testament to how much you care for squirrels that you're willing to keep rehashing this so soon after your loss. :Love_Icon

[MJS]

UNI...I'M SO SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. HOW AWFUL FOR YOU AND YOUR SQS. :sad :sad :sad :grouphug THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS.

[Smartsgirl]

I bought a book about squirrels & I remember it saying that acorns are very high in tannins. Tannins are very bad for just about any animal or person, except squirrels. Thanks to evolution, squirrels have a natural "tolerance" to tannins (quantity is an issue) & have a much shorter digestive tract, therefore the tannins don't stay in their bodies very long & they don't get sick. Of course there is the quantity they eat, the quality they eat & having a well working digestive/elimination system in place. If they can't poop and pee regularly, then there would be a problem.

Fungus/mold/spores, are a totally different story. I have seen wild squirrels eat nuts I have put out for them that I discovered afterwards were yucky. They will eat some & then stop and drop or throw it away. I've also come upon leftovers of nuts I have left for them. Those were always somewhat eaten, but obviously parts of it were moldy or black. Monster even got some a time or two & he would fight to keep them! He never would eat more than a few bites of them if he got to it before I noticed it was bad.

I have several frozen bags of acorns (different kinds), walnuts & pecans. For my own peace of mind, if I ever happen to be lucky enough to help another squirrel, will crack/cut open all nuts & inspect them before they are given to any squirrel. Just how long do frozen nuts keep? All of mine are in the shells. Has anyone else experienced the HUGH red oak acorns? What is the info on putting them in water about? THANKS!!

[Unikorngrrl]

Thank you guys!

I just did a float test on 17 of the acorns out of the bag that was frozen. Only 1 floated and it was bad, but the others sank to the bottom. I cracked 8 more and 6 of those were bad...

[Duckman]

Uni, please don't blame yourself for this. There is no way you could know, but I also know it is little comfort. What you are doing now is what matters. Let's work to ensure this tragedy never happens again! Please know that myself and many others at TSB are not going to rest until we can educate people on the needless risks these Acorns represent. A well meaning treat is not worth the risk of the loss of our beloved squirrel. I am truly sorry that you had to experience this horror, but from these babies deaths will come much good! You have my promise on this! :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[SammysMom]

I promise you that as well Uni. Very well put DM!!!:Love_Icon

[LeilaNami]

For those asking, yes, it is the aflatoxins that are toxic. Aflatoxins are a type of mycotoxins produced by Aspergillus spp. of fungus. There are several types of aflatoxins, some worse than others. If the acorn is moldy or discolored on the inside, don't use them. The fungi producing aflatoxins are dematiaceous so checking for discoloration or actual mold on the inside is the only reliable way to tell outside of a culture. Because they are dematiaceous, the spores and/or rhizomes will range from reddish-brown to black in color. In this particular species, the spores/rhizomes will start out white and then turn to these colors. The float test is not a fair test of the integrity of the nut shell. There can be partial holes that reach only to softer tissues but do not completely penetrate. Mold rhizomes can also spread from the shell into the nut but not necessarily be visible on the outer shell. Roasting/baking the nuts also does nothing. Once the aflatoxins are produced, there is no getting rid of it, though it would possibly kill existing mold spores. The best thing you can do is to keep them frozen and cut them open to check before feeding them.

Please also check your sunflower seeds! Aflatoxin-producing fungi regularly infects those as well, even those meant for human consumption. Nuts and seeds are often mixed with contaminated ones (instead of contaminated ones being removed) in order to keep the levels of aflatoxin below FDA requirements. But, they often exceed them, especially in sunflower seeds and peanut products.

Uni, I am very sorry about your squirrels. This was a tragic accident and this thread will help people be more aware of certain dangers in the future. Thank you for sharing this.

[Unikorngrrl]

Thank you all for your kind words again and again! Leila thank you for your post, I can hardly post from my phone and USPS doesn't think I need my chargers! If there is anything else I'll post it...

[Negerto30]

So we should cut them open n look for black or white fuzzy stuff? I have a whole bag but I might just throw them out since they don't need them anyways. My babies will be sad!

[LeilaNami]

So we should cut them open n look for black or white fuzzy stuff? I have a whole bag but I might just throw them out since they don't need them anyways. My babies will be sad!

It won't always look fuzzy. It can look just like black or reddish-brown spots, too.

[Duckman]

So we should cut them open n look for black or white fuzzy stuff? I have a whole bag but I might just throw them out since they don't need them anyways. My babies will be sad!

I would highly recommend you throw them out. While they might be mad at you for a short time (they probably won't even miss them!), they will be alive and thriving. It just isn't worth the chance!

[Unikorngrrl]

I would highly recommend you throw them out. While they might be mad at you for a short time (they probably won't even miss them!), they will be alive and thriving. It just isn't worth the chance!

I concur!! I'm too scared now. Six little angels. Shay made it through being orphaned, peenie and bladder issues, bone infection and abscesses just do die from a d@mn acorn that mommy fed him. Cayde came to me b/c the girl and her mother didn't think they could raise and release him and trusted ME to do it, and I killed him. The other 4 the same. It's a SUPER CRAPPY feeling to say the least. They were supposed to be safer with me, healthier with me, and happier with me. Instead...

[Duckman]

I concur!! I'm too scared now. Six little angels. Shay made it through being orphaned, peenie and bladder issues, bone infection and abscesses just do die from a d@mn acorn that mommy fed him. Cayde came to me b/c the girl and her mother didn't think they could raise and release him and trusted ME to do it, and I killed him. The other 4 the same. It's a SUPER CRAPPY feeling to say the least. They were supposed to be safer with me, healthier with me, and happier with me. Instead...

Uni, you didn't kill them. Please believe that! You didn't know. If you had known and THEN given the acorns to them, then you would have, but you didn't know! You are doing the right thing, but you can't wear that guilt because it doesn't belong on you. Please forgive yourself and do what is right in their memory. Champion their cause so their deaths have meaning and save others who also don't know yet. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[Shewhosweptforest]

:nono Uni they were safer and happier with you!!!!! This was a freak accident ....it's not like you fed them something exotic or unusual....you fed them their natural food...which is to be commended and takes a lot of time to forage :dono this could have just as easily happened in the wild ....I take solace (and you should too) that however brief their time, it couldn't have been filled with more love and nurturing anywhere else on God's green Earth :bowdown You're probably the most selfless, dedicated person I've ever met :Love_Icon and I love ya girl!!!! :Love_Icon and I miss you :( :grouphug

[Shewhosweptforest]

Uni, you didn't kill them. Please believe that! You didn't know. If you had known and THEN given the acorns to them, then you would have, but you didn't know! You are doing the right thing, but you can't wear that guilt because it doesn't belong on you. Please forgive yourself and do what is right in their memory. Champion their cause so their deaths have meaning and save others who also don't know yet. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

:goodpost :Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

:nono Uni they were safer and happier with you!!!!! This was a freak accident ....it's not like you fed them something exotic or unusual....you fed them their natural food...which is to be commended and takes a lot of time to forage :dono this could have just as easily happened in the wild ....I take solace (and you should too) that however brief their time, it couldn't have been filled with more love and nurturing anywhere else on God's green Earth :bowdown You're probably the most selfless, dedicated person I've ever met :Love_Icon and I love ya girl!!!! :Love_Icon and I miss you :( :grouphug

Please do forgive yourself...they surely wouldn't hold it against you nor does anyone else.:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[Unikorngrrl]

Your head can know the reality of a situation, and I appreciate and know that you guys are right. However it doesn't make my heart feel better. My hope is that people will consider how it will make them feel if they continue to feed them and it happens to their babies. Please do understand that it is NOT a feeling that you can shake. It's with me, painful and horrible...

You guys are sweet and you know I love you too Sweeper!! xoxo

[MollyBear361]

I am so sorry. This had to be heartbreaking. But I have read from other sources to never give acorns from ground for this reason. Although I am guilty of doing it. If you watch wilds, most pick them off tree and not ground.:grouphug

[ALittleNutty]

Sorry I have been away from the boards so long. Lots going on here. Hugs Uni! All our hearts are breaking for you. I have been giving Parkyr and Jordyn a few acorns each week but after reading this, those are going to be eliminated totally from their diet. I just won't risk it with these precious boys that you entrusted me with.

[FortWorthSquaddy]

We got our hands on a big cache of HUGE Bur Oak acorns last year - they were humongous and I looked forward to cutting them up and drying them into little hard treats for our overwintering guests. They were all thoroughly inspected - intact and not discolored. They did not float. But they had been on the ground for a little while...

So I then boiled them to sterilize them, because we had P. Tiddlywinks who had been a previous "pet" and she had never had wild food - we figured we would introduce it to her slowly.

After I boiled them, I dried them in the oven at 175 for about 12 hours. They felt really dry. I did not shell them thinking that they would "keep"

Then I put them in our "nut" drawer - a filing cabinet which makes a distinct sound that Roo learned meant he was about to get a treat.

Went to go get them 2 days later to finally shell them and cut them up - and I could "feel" something different about them. I mean with my allergies I could "feel" it - it wasn't a smell. And they had let off a great deal of water vapor which had collected on the inside of the cabinet...

So I cut the first one open - it was covered with mold between the nut and the shell. I am sure the boiling killed any live mold/mildew, but that obviously did not "kill" the mold spores. ( I have a strong background in biology, and I was still surprised)

SO - remember that acorn shells are porous, and water can get in or out. This promotes mold growth. ANY mold growth can result in mycotoxins.
You would have to get the acorns fresh under the tree and before they get rained on, then do the worm detecting float test, then open them, cut them, heat dry them, then freeze them. My mistake was letting them sit.

No squirrels ever even came in contact with those acorns. I threw them away in the regular trash. It was a loss, but I learned how to process Bur Acorns and now the pieces make GREAT little treats!

[Rhapsody]

For those asking, yes, it is the aflatoxins that are toxic. Aflatoxins are a type of mycotoxins produced by Aspergillus spp. of fungus. There are several types of aflatoxins, some worse than others. If the acorn is moldy or discolored on the inside, don't use them. The fungi producing aflatoxins are dematiaceous so checking for discoloration or actual mold on the inside is the only reliable way to tell outside of a culture. Because they are dematiaceous, the spores and/or rhizomes will range from reddish-brown to black in color. In this particular species, the spores/rhizomes will start out white and then turn to these colors. The float test is not a fair test of the integrity of the nut shell. There can be partial holes that reach only to softer tissues but do not completely penetrate. Mold rhizomes can also spread from the shell into the nut but not necessarily be visible on the outer shell. Roasting/baking the nuts also does nothing. Once the aflatoxins are produced, there is no getting rid of it, though it would possibly kill existing mold spores. The best thing you can do is to keep them frozen and cut them open to check before feeding them.

This why I only feed fresh nuts and never freeze my nut supply (never have) --and why it is important for people to know that Aflatoxin is not just a problem with acorns, but with all nuts and this problems have been around for a long time.... years and years. Here are two pics I took recently of an almond that was infected (this nut came from a fresh bag of mix nuts). You can see the black color on the shell that indicates there is problem and then the discoloration along the edges of the nut it self.


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/RSCN3520_zpsb5ef1de3.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Rhapsody_1/media/RSCN3520_zpsb5ef1de3.jpg.html)


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/RSCN3522_zpsff3b5880.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Rhapsody_1/media/RSCN3522_zpsff3b5880.jpg.html)

[TubeDriver]

Thanks for the updates. Very scary!:eek

[island rehabber]

I always see a few of these blackish almonds in the bags I buy......I throw them out just because they don't look 'right' but now I know why. Thank you for this valuable info!

[Unikorngrrl]

A few comments I have read have made me feel like I should clarify something. The acorns that I fed were frozen in late 2012, NOT in 2013. If you're thinking that acorns are safe b/c they aren't from the 2013 harvest, you may want to reconsider...

[SammysMom]

Thank-you for clarifying Uni!:thumbsup

[Unikorngrrl]

We got our hands on a big cache of HUGE Bur Oak acorns last year - they were humongous and I looked forward to cutting them up and drying them into little hard treats for our overwintering guests. They were all thoroughly inspected - intact and not discolored. They did not float. But they had been on the ground for a little while...

So I then boiled them to sterilize them, because we had P. Tiddlywinks who had been a previous "pet" and she had never had wild food - we figured we would introduce it to her slowly.

After I boiled them, I dried them in the oven at 175 for about 12 hours. They felt really dry. I did not shell them thinking that they would "keep"

Then I put them in our "nut" drawer - a filing cabinet which makes a distinct sound that Roo learned meant he was about to get a treat.

Went to go get them 2 days later to finally shell them and cut them up - and I could "feel" something different about them. I mean with my allergies I could "feel" it - it wasn't a smell. And they had let off a great deal of water vapor which had collected on the inside of the cabinet...

So I cut the first one open - it was covered with mold between the nut and the shell. I am sure the boiling killed any live mold/mildew, but that obviously did not "kill" the mold spores. ( I have a strong background in biology, and I was still surprised)

SO - remember that acorn shells are porous, and water can get in or out. This promotes mold growth. ANY mold growth can result in mycotoxins.
You would have to get the acorns fresh under the tree and before they get rained on, then do the worm detecting float test, then open them, cut them, heat dry them, then freeze them. My mistake was letting them sit.

No squirrels ever even came in contact with those acorns. I threw them away in the regular trash. It was a loss, but I learned how to process Bur Acorns and now the pieces make GREAT little treats!

Nor will anything kill the toxins that have already been excreted by the mold...

[Madamelipstick]

Is this the word you are all looking forCampylobacter3 this is what I found about giving nuts to people and dogs that are molded. Hopefully this is what we are all looking for

[MAC]

IS IT OK TO FREEZE THE PROPELLER THINGS OFF MAPLE TREES FOR WINTER FEEDING :sereneAN INDOOR SQUIRREL

[CritterMom]

Yes it is. I would wash them well, lay them out to air dry and then into baggies and into the freezer.

[Kristi S]

Is this one tragic incident of Unikorngrrl's the reason no one feeds acorns to their squirrels?

[CritterMom]

Is this one tragic incident of Unikorngrrl's the reason no one feeds acorns to their squirrels?

No. We have had many cases through the years. There is just too much moisture in them to store safely. Chestnuts have similar problems.

[island rehabber]

I keep both in the fridge, but never freeze anymore. Even the chestnut growers tell you not to freeze them.

[Kristi S]

I keep both in the fridge, but never freeze anymore. Even the chestnut growers tell you not to freeze them.

Interesting. I wondered if freezing was part of the problem somehow.


The whole nut/mold thing is intriguing to me, considering how common it is for squirrels to cache them, even underground, and eat them later. Wilds must be able to choose well those that are safe.

...Ah! This is very interesting: http://www.nsl.fs.fed.us/collection%20and%20care%20of%20acorns.pdf It discusses proper techniques for collecting and storing acorns to be used in planting. Moisture content is key - it needs to remain high for the seed to survive. I suspect that as long as the seed is alive, it will remain mold-resistant. Freezing kills the seed (makes me wonder about what happens in the north. Germination before winter??). It's also possible that acorns that are immature when collected are not suitable squirrel food, which is a reason for not picking them straight from a tree without knowing what one is doing. The first 5-10% of acorns that fall are often no good. They talk about the float test, and storage, too. Well-worth reading the appropriate sections if one is considering collecting acorns for their squirrels. I know it's often frowned upon around here, and there's reason for it, but perhaps the risks can be minimized with knowledge of best practice.

[SammysMom]

I am sure that there are people who use them. However, because we have had so many incidents that ended in tragedy, there is not an acorn that will ever be given to my squirrels while they are in my care. There are too many alternatives that do not come with the risks. Once they are in the wild they can use their squirrelly senses to figure it out. While they are with us, we are their "moms" and they trust whatever mom gives them is safe. We can't make those choices with our noses in the same way that squirrel moms do so we are conservative in our recommendations here.

[TubeDriver]

I am sure that there are people who use them. However, because we have had so many incidents that ended in tragedy, there is not an acorn that will ever be given to my squirrels while they are in my care. There are too many alternatives that do not come with the risks. Once they are in the wild they can use their squirrelly senses to figure it out. While they are with us, we are their "moms" and they trust whatever mom gives them is safe. We can't make those choices with our noses in the same way that squirrel moms do so we are conservative in our recommendations here.

:goodpost

We don't have the luxury of testing this, way tooooooooo many uncontrolled variables. We have see enough cases of suspected liver failure and death due to aflatoxins that we simply can NOT recommend that NR squirrels be given acorns. Search for UnicornGirls's thread, several otherwise healthy squirrels simply passed on regardless of top notch response/treatment. Wilds know something we don't know.

[Kristi S]

I understand, and I'm not advocating feeding captive squirrels acorns, I just wanted to make the information available to those who do.

[Annabelle's papa]

:)Too many great postings to quote, and as Ms. Kristi mentioned on SlowcarIX's thread, corn + moisture can create aflatoxin, also peanuts and most treenuts. We experienced a 'touch' of acute aflatoxicosis a few years ago from using black pepper that had accumulated moisture while in the original container. It was like having the flu for 'two' months, we began to detect a sickening sweet taste using the pepper, nothing but fresh ground since then.:thumbsup

[TWEEGIE918]

Unikorngirl from Squirrel Nation fed some almost ready for release squirrels some frozen acorns she had. Within 48 hours, 6 of her squirrels were dead. She broke up 4 acorns and found some type of mold growing in 2 of them.

I bring this up not as recrimination since Unikorngirl is as dedicated to and loving of squirrels as anyone but rather as a warning for all to keep in mind. Six healthy, happy babies dead in a manner of hours. What a tragic and sad accident. :(

I'm so very sorry to hear this poor babies... How old were the babies? Reason I'm asking is because I also have been feeding frozen acorns to my Tweegie I started feeding her when she was a little more than a year old and she is going to be three in August and as a matter of fact we still have some frozen ones. This is very scary. I'm getting rid of my frozen bags. I cleaned them and inspected each one then froze them. Please let me know how old were the babies and again so sorry :(

[khryse]

Hey. For my Squirrelly, I didn't want to try to use the frozen stuff. We put some in the freezer but, we never used it. I always bought boxes of fresh acorns and pecans off of eBay. He could go through about 2 ten pound boxes a year. I was just very careful about who I bought from and I made sure of when they were grown and picked. I always emailed the seller and got to know them a little before I would buy from them. Just FYI. :Love_Icon:):Squirrel:Squirrel







I'm so very sorry to hear this poor babies... How old were the babies? Reason I'm asking is because I also have been feeding frozen acorns to my Tweegie I started feeding her when she was a little more than a year old and she is going to be three in August and as a matter of fact we still have some frozen ones. This is very scary. I'm getting rid of my frozen bags. I cleaned them and inspected each one then froze them. Please let me know how old were the babies and again so sorry :(

[BarbieJean]

Good to know, thank you. I am new here and I'm finding so much help here, this board is amazing. I'm sorry for the loss of those precious babies :-( A question kind of a long these lines, I've read that green acorns are also poisonous to squirrels, is this correct?

[stepnstone]

I've read that green acorns are also poisonous to squirrels, is this correct?

I believe that is suspected due to the high volume of tannic acids in the green (unripe) ones....

While many animals in the wild depend on the acorn for their nutritional needs, the acorn poses
a toxicity risk to some animals. Large amounts of ingested acorns can induce severe illness.
This is due to the tannic and gallic acids in the acorn, which can cause severe damage to the
gastrointestinal system and kidneys.

I just spent the night supporting a friend who's adult NR squirrel got into a bag of collected acorns,
gorged herself and became lethargic having a couple mild seizures. Vet found her to be very dehydrated
and put her on IV for subQ. She's acting a little better today, condition is being guarded. We think she will
be alright. Others have not been so lucky...

[DarkLies212]

I believe that is suspected due to the high volume of tannic acids in the green (unripe) ones....

While many animals in the wild depend on the acorn for their nutritional needs, the acorn poses
a toxicity risk to some animals. Large amounts of ingested acorns can induce severe illness.
This is due to the tannic and gallic acids in the acorn, which can cause severe damage to the
gastrointestinal system and kidneys.

I just spent the night supporting a friend who's adult NR squirrel got into a bag of collected acorns,
gorged herself and became lethargic having a couple mild seizures. Vet found her to be very dehydrated
and put her on IV for subQ. She's acting a little better today, condition is being guarded. We think she will
be alright. Others have not been so lucky...

So would even a dozen or so freshly picked green acorns once a month during acorn season be detrimental?

[Squirreleesi]

First off, i am so so sorry for your loss :(


Forgive me if this was covered already and i just missed the posting, but i was wondering what benefits people have found by freezing or refrigerating their acorns for storage, instead of storing them in open containers or bags you get oranges in? Squirrels have a great sense of smell; They can smell food a far distance away and are even said to be able to smell which acorns are currently housing Grubs. My thought was that, since things generally lose their smell when they are frozen, wouldn't that just make the squirrel's unable to tell a safe nut apart from a bad nut? Wouldn't even a nut that was previously frozen but allowed to thaw out also smell weaker due to the separation of water from the other compounds?

[Sara in NW MS]

I think it's just one of those things... some people freeze/store acorns and feed them to their squirrels and others don't. It's risky, like playing with fire. You could feed acorns for years and nothing would happen but that's just luck. You don't want to be that person who decided to collect them and bring them in to feed to your baby and then something terrible happens. It's better to be safe than sorry.
JMHO though, I'm not an expert by any means and I have no idea what the structural makeup is of an acorn once it's been frozen vs freshly fallen one that contains a toxin. I just spend some money and order nuts online for my babies and I make sure they are safe for them to consume. :)

[bobby taylor]

I would put it in Emergency, and then stick the thread.

I just wonder how many in the wild die this very same way.

[stepnstone]

I just wonder how many in the wild die this very same way.

Unknowing I won't say not any, but I do question If any.
Like not seeing mbd among wilds.
I've seen wilds that eat avocado, skin and all with no adverse
reaction, yet feed it to a captive that way and your fighting for
it's life. I've seen wilds forging for food ignoring fallen acorns that
captives will eat if fed to them. Wilds sitting at a feeder full of
peanuts gorging itself day after day with no adverse reactions to
their health or coat yet our captives would look like rag-a-muffins
and get mbd if we allowed that.
Wilds seem to know what to eat and how to eat. I personally think
they also learn what to eat in the wild that counters things that
could potentially harm them.

[Bushkins]

Thank You for posting this Acorn concern and what to look for when collecting and/or purchasing Acorns ! Nut Mold is a Terrible Thing !! I did not know that moldy nuts could have such a devastating effect on squirrels !! Again ..Thank You and sorry for your loss !!
Just a little concern as to the nuts we give our squirrels? I feed wild squirrels up here in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada and consistently read about members in here stating " not to give too many nuts and/or acorns to our squirrels" ! This really confuses me as to the wild guys I feed !! What do wild grey squirrels eat all winter ? The acorns/nuts they stash in the ground during the Fall Months... Correct ? And their lucky to get at these previously stashed nuts due to snow & frozen ground....Correct ? So how is it that we can give our wild squirrels too many acorns/nuts ? A wild squirrel is an opportunist eater and when desperate for nutrition, will eat tree bark or anything it can find !! I just do not understand how you can give a wild squirrel too many acorns/nuts during the winter !! What else do wild squirrels eat during winter and I will feed it to them !! Thanks for any input !

[Spanky]

Just a little concern as to the nuts we give our squirrels? I feed wild squirrels up here in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada and consistently read about members in here stating " not to give too many nuts and/or acorns to our squirrels" ! This really confuses me as to the wild guys I feed !! What do wild grey squirrels eat all winter? The acorns/nuts they stash in the ground during the Fall Months... Correct ? And their lucky to get at these previously stashed nuts due to snow & frozen ground....Correct ? So how is it that we can give our wild squirrels too many acorns/nuts ? A wild squirrel is an opportunist eater and when desperate for nutrition, will eat tree bark or anything it can find !! I just do not understand how you can give a wild squirrel too many acorns/nuts during the winter !! What else do wild squirrels eat during winter and I will feed it to them !! Thanks for any input !

There is a huge difference between a wild squirrel and a captive squirrel. When you hear folks here saying no nuts (or seeds, or corn, etc.), they are for the most part talking about captive squirrels. Captive squirrels only have the option of eating what they are provided and if they get very many nuts at all (which they will always choose over anything else, just like a kid will choose candy over veggies) it WILL lead to MBD. It is not a "maybe" it is an absolute... and just a matter of time. This is partly why some people coming to TSB have a hard time accepting it was the nuts they fed for months that caused the current paralysis. With wilds my personal understanding is MBD is virtually non-existent, but I have also seen posts on TSB describing squirrels in a city park (as an example) developing MBD as a result of all the nuts and seeds they are fed by the park patrons. But like Step said, the wilds have a whole smorgasbord of options and "know" what to eat. I also believe that captive squirrels are also exponentially less active than those free in the trees... climbing dozens of trees every day, tens of feet tall, jumping treetop to treetop.. and the running... which also (IMO) plays an important role.

The wilds are much more active in addition to having options and variety we may not even think to provide our captive squirrels.

I personally believe it is okay to feed wild squirrels nuts and seeds, I do it myself. But it needs to be within limits... meaning the wilds still need to be wild and our feeding should be a nice supplement (or treat) to what they get in the wild... but not reach extent the wilds no longer forage... because they know where a nice pile of nuts can be found.

[UnknownUserr]

My understanding with acorns they only can be eaten at a particular time and for a very short time. Native Americans used to use acorns to tan hide they contain a natural tannin compound also contain a toxin once they reach a certain age. Me myself I would not feed them to any animal, Ive seen to many horse and cows become very ill after eating them. Living in a area were oak is the primary tree I notice red squirrels with large caches of acorns and grey and black squirrels are only eating them at a certain time.