Super weak and not movingaround much

[JoeysKeeper]

Hi! I hope I'm posting this in the right section, I'm just really worried about my squirrel (Joey).

Joey seemed completely normal yesterday, jumping around his cage for food and super excited when I gave it to him. Today I went into his room (he has his own blocked off from all my other pets) and he seemed really lethargic. He was on the side of the cage looking weak and peeing little bits while he was hanging there. Then I gave him his blocks (Henry's Healthy Pets for Squirrels) and some apples, kale, carrots, and pear. He got on top the bowl to eat and is eating... but is only eating little pieces and seems to be having a hard time with it. I don't think it's MBD since he's on the blocks and has a pretty healthy diet. I just can't figure out what may be wrong with him and I'm really worried. He just seems completely unlike himself.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

I'm questioning finding a vet for him. But he gets super stressed around other people, so I would hate to make him feel worse if he is already not doing well.

*ETA: I'm obviously a bit off because I'm worried about him - hence the terrible grammar and messed up title. Sorry :(

[Nancy in New York]

How old is he?
Is this a grey squirrel?
Can you post a picture?
What formula was he on?
How long has he been on HHB's?
Do you feed him leafy greens?
Do you limit his nuts?
Is he water bottle working?
How big is his cage?
Does he get out of the cage time?
Could he have taken a fall?
What exactly has he eaten in the past 24 hours.


This will help us all access him better, sorry for so many questions.

[JoeysKeeper]

How old is he?

- He is about 3. I don't really know. I got him after someone else hand raised him and let him go. But probably about 3.


Is this a grey squirrel?

-Yes. He's an Eastern Great Tree Squirrel, I think.

Can you post a picture?

-I'll take one in just a second.

What formula was he on?

-I don't know the formula since by the time I got him he was old enough to eat adult food.


How long has he been on HHB's?

-Since July. Before he was on Kaytee blocks for mice and rats.

Do you feed him leafy greens?

-Most days. I would say he gets spinach or kale 4 or so days of the week. It depends on what I have on hand or got at the farmer's market.


Do you limit his nuts?

-Yes. He gets very little nuts. However, I went out of town for two weeks and had my friend watch him (I returned on the 7th) and she fed him too many peanuts for about 4-5 days. She was giving him like 4 a day and I didn't know until after the four days had passed. She quit giving him as many and he hasn't had any since I returned.


Is he water bottle working?


-Yes. He was drinking water find yesterday, and it was mostly depleted today.


Don't be sorry! I appreciate the questions since they will help me help him!

[Nancy in New York]

Ok the diet seems good.
As you know peanuts are the worse, but I don't think that 4 days on them
would have this effect.
The spinach is high in oxalates in spinach and may stop the absorption of the calcium.
I believe that too much can also cause kidney stones.
If he eats his blocks, this really doesn't seem diet related.
I'm sure that others will be along too to help solve this.

[farrelli]

I wonder if his blood sugar is off. Do you have any molasses? If not, maple? Failing that, any other syrups? Sometimes if you give them some, even rubbing on their gums if necessary, can bring a little guy around. If he's been eating well, it may not be his blood sugar, but there's not much chance of it hurting him.

[Nancy in New York]

You probably are already familiar with the food chart, but I will provide the link anyway.
In groups 1 and 2 you can feed and endless supply, and group 3 limited.
Try to pick the most foods from group 1 & 2 along with his HHB's.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?39275-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels-(Revised-2-13)

[JoeysKeeper]

sorry, missed a few questions:

How big is his cage?

-It's about 5' x 3' x 3'


Does he get out of the cage time?

-Not as much lately. He has been super temperamental and going through phases of biting me pretty badly.


Could he have taken a fall?

-Maybe from the top of his cage? I'm not sure.

What exactly has he eaten in the past 24 hours.

Yesterday: 2 HHBs, 3 pieces of apple, and a piece of carrot

Today: 2 HHBs, 2 pieces of apple, 3 pieces of pear, a piece of carrot, and about a leaf of kale was given to him. However he seems to have only eaten pieces of the pear and the blocks.

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[farrelli]

Right now a lot of squirrels are temperamental because it's breeding season again. When he's out of his cage, does he act more energetic?

[Duckman]

I just PM'd him, to find out where in Oregon he is at. We should be able to help him get into a vet, without risking him being seized. Hopefully he is close.

[Nancy in New York]

Oh my, he is precious.
Not sure but does his fur appear a little spikey?
Does it seem to YOU like it's standing up a little?
It may just be the background light making it appear that way.
IF he fell, what is in the bottom of his cage? Are there floors in his
cage, or shelves on the side. Meaning if he fell from the top would it be a straight
fall to the bottom, or is there a floor every 2 feet or so?

[Duckman]

Does it seem to YOU like it's standing up a little?





My first thought too.

JoeysKeeper,

Can you check his water bottle and ensure the little ball is down so he can get water. He looks VERY dehydrated. Maybe offer him a little water on a teaspoon and see if he drinks it.

[JoeysKeeper]

Farrelli, I don't have any syrup here. But I'll go get some. It can't really hurt. Thanks for the tip!


Nancy, yeah - it seems really weird to be diet related. He's actually done so well since I switched his food.


Update: I'm actually making an appointment now to bring him in. I'd prefer to just be on the safe side. He seems really out of it.

[Nancy in New York]

Farrelli, I don't have any syrup here. But I'll go get some. It can't really hurt. Thanks for the tip!


Nancy, yeah - it seems really weird to be diet related. He's actually done so well since I switched his food.


Update: I'm actually making an appointment now to bring him in. I'd prefer to just be on the safe side. He seems really out of it.

You're such a good mama. This is a squirrel friendly vet right?
Have you been to him/her before?

[farrelli]

Have you done the pinch test for dehydration? Gently pinch the skin between the shoulders and see if it tents or goes right back down (it should), like on the back of your hand.

[pappy1264]

Are the only greens you give him spinach and kale? Both of them have oxylates which can interfer with calcium uptake, so not the best choice for greens (esp. if they are the only two greens you give.) I would try to get some extra calcium into him over the next few days and see if you see a difference. The MBD treatment will not hurt if that is not what is going on, but given he is being fed spinach and kale (if that are the only two greens) that could be what you are seeing.

Ok, just reread it (sorry my mind has been a little out of sorts today). Not likely MBD. Could he have possibly eaten something that he should not have? How eo his eyes look, are they moving in the socket side to side or any weird head movements? Wondering if he took a fall?

[JoeysKeeper]

Update: He's at the vet now. It is definitely a squirrel friendly vet, one of the members here works there! I hadn't been before (I just moved in July) but luckily a friend recommended the vet. I'll know more soon, but at least he's in good hands. I'll update you guys as soon as I know more.

And it's mostly kale that I've been giving him. I didn't think of the calcium problem. I'll definitely add in some other greens to be on the safe side.

Also, I didn't do a pinch test before I brought him in, but he does look kind of dehydrated - hopefully all he needs are some fluids.

[Nancy in New York]

Update: He's at the vet now. It is definitely a squirrel friendly vet, one of the members here works there! I hadn't been before (I just moved in July) but luckily a friend recommended the vet. I'll know more soon, but at least he's in good hands. I'll update you guys as soon as I know more.

And it's mostly kale that I've been giving him. I didn't think of the calcium problem. I'll definitely add in some other greens to be on the safe side.

Also, I didn't do a pinch test before I brought him in, but he does look kind of dehydrated - hopefully all he needs are some fluids.

Thank you so much for the update.
And thank you for keeping us posted when he returns.

[California Squirrel Lover]

Thank you so much for the update.
And thank you for keeping us posted when he returns.

Yes, an update would be great! :thumbsup

Nancy, is this a vet the board has the name and number of, if they are squirrel friendly and have squirrel experience? Might be good info that can help a member in the future? :grouphug

[SammysMom]

How is it going? Any report from the vet?
I am lurking and waiting for the vet's name for my list!

[Nancy in New York]

Yes, an update would be great! :thumbsup

Nancy, is this a vet the board has the name and number of, if they are squirrel friendly and have squirrel experience? Might be good info that can help a member in the future? :grouphug

I'm not sure many vets want that information "out there".

I know that SammysMom is compiling a list.

[California Squirrel Lover]

I'm not sure many vets want that information "out there".

I know that SammysMom is compiling a list.

gotcha, glad SammysMom is on it :thumbsup

[JoeysKeeper]

Update: He's back at home now recuperating from the anesthesia. They said he was dehydrated and underweight. They seemed to think his diet was fine, but recommended I go up on how many Henry's Healthy Blocks I give him. I had been giving him 2 a day, but they said he should get 3-4 now. He was at 300 cc and should be around 350 cc. They think he may have an infection or something that made him lose so much weight and become dehydrated since he was eating and drinking normally. But I won't get the blood results back til Monday. Anyway, as of now he's getting lots of love and some new toys to cuddle with while he recovers :) I really appreciate everyone's help here. Between the people here and the vet I found, I felt so much better about everything. Without the support, I would have totally freaked out about what to do! The first few vets I called wouldn't even help at all because of legal stuff. So I'm glad everything worked out.

Also, as far as the vet - I don't think they would mind me saying. But since some vets do care, would it be better if I private messaged the person making the list? Whatever works for you guys.

And I will definitely update you guys once I find out what his blood results are!

[SammysMom]

Absolutely! PM me and I will add him to the list as a "possiblity" recommended by you.:thumbsup

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I know the vet said to increase the block, but he doesn't need more than two, they are loaded with vitamins and not like the Kaytee block which they need to eat about 6 to 8 a day.
you could increase the food you offer, mine LOVE sweet potato and that will help put some weight on him, also avocado, not too much of these but just add a piece or two , also romaine is a good green instead of spinach.
Hope he feels better soon.

[JoeysKeeper]

I know the vet said to increase the block, but he doesn't need more than two, they are loaded with vitamins and not like the Kaytee block which they need to eat about 6 to 8 a day.
you could increase the food you offer, mine LOVE sweet potato and that will help put some weight on him, also avocado, not too much of these but just add a piece or two , also romaine is a good green instead of spinach.
Hope he feels better soon.

I thought the vet was off on that too. I'm not sure she was familiar with the type of blocks. I gave him extra for today since they gave him medicine to increase his appetite. But I definitely think it would be better to increase his fruits and veggies rather than his blocks. I'm glad someone else agrees. :)

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks for the updates.
Do you feed avocado? Mine have always loved sugar snap peas and avocado the best.
Then comes butternut squash, radicchio, beans, sweet potato, and brussel sprouts.
Do you remember the drug used to increase his appetite?
Glad he's home where he belongs.
He is one lucky little squirrel to have found his way to you!(Yuck)

[JoeysKeeper]

Thanks for the updates.
Do you feed avocado? Mine have always loved sugar snap peas and avocado the best.
Then comes butternut squash, radicchio, beans, sweet potato, and brussel sprouts.
Do you remember the drug used to increase his appetite?
Glad he's home where he belongs.
He is one lucky little squirrel to have found his way to you!(Yuck)

I do give him avocado, it's one of his favorites! I give him sweet potato sometimes, too. I'll have to try the others!

And the medicine to increase his appetite shows up as Reglan on the receipt.

And I'm really happy he's home too!

[Nancy in New York]

And I'm really happy he's home too!

Right where he belongs! :Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

How is little Joey this morning?
Did the vet test for parasites, did he do a fecal exam?

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Good morning Joey, did the vet tell you what his weight is? and what it should be.
Oh ...........and we would LOVE some pictures!!!

[JoeysKeeper]

Sweet Simon's Mommy, I think she said he was at 300ccs and he should be at 350ccs. The weird part is that he used to be overweight just a few months ago. So I'm unsure as to what happened. Maybe the blood results will help?

Nancy, he's doing a lot better this morning. His balance seems a little off, he was falling a little while he was trying to jump around this morning. But he's getting around much more and seems closer to his usual self. I don't think they tested for parasites or did a fecal exam. They just did a blood test which I'll get the results for tomorrow and gave him fluids and the meds to increase his appetite.

And I will post pictures for you guys in just a bit when I let him out to play.

[Duckman]

If he is an Eastern Grey, 350cc is underweight, not over weight. Most 3 year olds run twice that weight. My Rex is almost 900cc and is 2 years old (granted, he is slightly overweight). Please do post the pic as soon as you can, and we can tell you his species.

And I didn't say this before, but :Welcome to The Squirrel Board! We hope to have you and Joey for a LONG time to come! :grin3

EDIT - Just saw his picture you posted yesterday and yes, he is an Eastern Grey. He is definitely not overweight!

[JoeysKeeper]

No - I know he isn't overweight. He used to be though. About a year ago. I realize he's underweight now. I just don't understand what happened. I feed him the same other than I switched him to Henry's Healthy Blocks around July. Anyway, thank you for the welcome. I've been on here for a bit. I just haven't posted in quite a bit. You guys are all great. I'm so glad this board is here.

Here are the pics I promised. I have a video, too. But I don't know if I can post it.

224077224078

[farrelli]

You can't upload videos here. You have to put them on Youtube, Photobucket, etc. and then post a link here.

[Duckman]

He is a gorgeous boy! I love his fluffy tail. Hang in there! We will figure out what is going on with him. The people here are just amazing and really do care about the squirrels, and their humans too!

[California Squirrel Lover]

Oh, he's adorable!! sweet face :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon :grin3

[SammysMom]

I have a fussy eater and he too is a slim squirrel. That fluffy tail and sleek coat look just fine though.

[TubeDriver]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet but Avocado is fine as long as you remove the skin and pit. Both the skin and the pit are poisonous and could kill him. Avocado meat is great for putting on weight and most squirrels love the stuff.:thumbsup

[JoeysKeeper]

I actually just bought more avocado today! He loves them! I figured it would be good to give him extra. Plus, they said if he needs meds, the avocado would be good to put it in. :)

[Nancy in New York]

I actually just bought more avocado today! He loves them! I figured it would be good to give him extra. Plus, they said if he needs meds, the avocado would be good to put it in. :)

Without the skin or pit of course.........TD is a worrier, as am I. :poke:grin2:poke

[SammysMom]

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

[JoeysKeeper]

Without the skin or pit of course.........TD is a worrier, as am I. :poke:grin2:poke

Of course. Maybe it's because I eat avocados too.. but I couldn't imagine anyone trying to eat the skin or the pit. That would be gross. I think they are toxic for humans, too... right?

[Nancy in New York]

Of course. Maybe it's because I eat avocados too.. but I couldn't imagine anyone trying to eat the skin or the pit. That would be gross. I think they are toxic for humans, too... right?

Ummmmmmmmmmm I'm not going to try that one. :rolf

[JoeysKeeper]

Alright, I just got the call back from the vet. He thinks it is definitely an infection. I'm going to go get the antibiotic tomorrow (I think he prescribed Baytril or something like that?). He said he may end up needing more, but he's going to start with that. I'm getting the oral version because that seems easier to give him - but he also offered the injection, is that better? He did explain the blood results, but it was a lot and I should have written it down. I know his kidney function was low, his blood sugar was low, I think his lung function was low, and there were other ones too. But he thinks they are all related to the infection. He thinks Joey should be okay after the antibiotics. He said that if he were older, he would worry but since he's so young he should be fine.

Has anyone had experience with these types of things? How hard is it to give him antibiotics? Any tips? Anything else I should ask the vet?

[Nancy in New York]

Alright, I just got the call back from the vet. He thinks it is definitely an infection. I'm going to go get the antibiotic tomorrow (I think he prescribed Baytril or something like that?). He said he may end up needing more, but he's going to start with that. I'm getting the oral version because that seems easier to give him - but he also offered the injection, is that better? He did explain the blood results, but it was a lot and I should have written it down. I know his kidney function was low, his blood sugar was low, I think his lung function was low, and there were other ones too. But he thinks they are all related to the infection. He thinks Joey should be okay after the antibiotics. He said that if he were older, he would worry but since he's so young he should be fine.

Has anyone had experience with these types of things? How hard is it to give him antibiotics? Any tips? Anything else I should ask the vet?

It's actually quite easy to give oral antibiotics.
With Baytril you can do once a day if Joey is difficult, or if you find
him easy to handle do it twice, 12 hours apart., that's the preferred way.
Baytril is a good antibiotic and quite fast acting too. :thumbsup
What type of injection did he say? Baytril?
Do not let him give him an injection of Convenia.

[farrelli]

People here give ABs all the time. Get the oral. Vets are often wrong with the injectable because they aren't aware of how fast a squirrel's metabolism is. Also, you will have an easier time switching to another if this one isn't effective enough. Baytril, however, is very effective and should do the trick. Do you know how much your squirrel weighs? if not, find out from the vet so that we can make sure that the dosage is right. Unless he's an experienced squirrel vet, he probably should be double checked. They get it wrong more often that you'd guess.

[SammysMom]

Okay, I believe that the oral is much more easily done so as not to end up with skin irritation or abscesses. Be sure that you check what the concentration is and then have his proper weight so we can double-check the dose. NO long lasting injection of anything. Baytril is a good one to start with. You will want to give probiotics a couple of hours before or after the Baytril dose as it is hard on their stomachs.
Do they think pneumonia?

[farrelli]

Oh, and get some Benebac when you're out. It's at a lot of pet stores, and the vet might have some too. ABs kill the good bacteria in the gut and can really hurt their tummies and give them GI issues. If you can't get Benebac, get a yogurt with probiotics. You won't give it at the same time as the ABs, you will give it between AB doses, so the ABs don't just kill the probiotics right off the bat, and so the probiotics don't reduce the effectiveness of the ABs.

[JoeysKeeper]

I will look for Benebac! If I can't find it and need to get the yogurt - any best type to get? And how much to give him?

I know they said he was 300ccs when I was there Saturday. I'll check on his records again, though.

The injection was the same thing, Baytril. He just said I could use either one. And the other antibiotic he said he may need later is Keflex. Only if Baytril isn't enough.

[SammysMom]

One step at a time. See how the Baytril goes and then assess...:grouphug Be sure that the yogurt has NO artificial sweeteners. Full fat natural yogurt.:thumbsup

[JoeysKeeper]

Okay, thanks guys! I'll see what I can find tomorrow. There are a bunch of pet stores around the city, I'm sure one has benebac. I'll get the yogurt too just incase he will only take one.

[farrelli]

Activia is one that advertises itself as high in probiotics.

[SammysMom]

Just please watch the artificial sweeteners...

[Scooterzmom]

I'm not entirely sure but I think Benebac is not sold in pet stores but by vets only. That's the case here at least. Squirrels love the taste so it's not a problem administering it. You can just put it on the tip of your fingers and they'll gladly lick it off. :)

[Nancy in New York]

I'm not entirely sure but I think Benebac is not sold in pet stores but by vets only. That's the case here at least. Squirrels love the taste so it's not a problem administering it. You can just put it on the tip of your fingers and they'll gladly lick it off. :)

We are lucky here. It's actually sold in pet stores, and even at Chris Clark's squirrels and more.
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=benebac

When giving a probiotic, give 2 hours before or 2 hours after the antibiotic.

[farrelli]

Lots of people on here have said that they find it in pet stores, although the clerks may not know where to find it. It's a tiny packet.

[JoeysKeeper]

I'll call around tomorrow. Portland seems to have a lot of health stuff. I imagine one of the pet stores will have it. Also, I promise no artificial sweeteners. I don't believe in eating those myself. I think they are terrible for humans, so I can't imagine giving them to an animal!

[PennyCash]

Having just finished giving Baytril to my girl, and it is a great ab. I will share that I have found the Benebac in both Petsmart and Petco, I always choose the one that is with the rat/mice/bunny supplies. My squirrel who is as picky as they come will literally chase the tube if she sees it, she likes it that much. I've no doubt that she would eat the whole tube if given the chance. Just wanted to ease your mind about at least one more thing. Hoping the Baytril kicks that nasty infections behind but quick (it's worked for my girl twice now). :grouphug:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug:grou phug:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug

[JoeysKeeper]

Hi guys - It's been about a week and he is doing so much better. The girl from the vet came and helped me give him fluids every day (so sweet!) and he's been getting antibiotics. He went back in for a check-up today and has blood work done and a urine test. He gained almost 100 grams and his fur looks normal now. The vet said it was like seeing a new squirrel! I won't get the blood work back until Monday - but when I do, I will update you guys! So glad for everyone's help. He is back to himself again. Here's a pic of him from the vet!

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[SammysMom]

Oh he is adorable!!! Great job getting him help! :Love_Icon:thumbsup:Love_Icon

[California Squirrel Lover]

I can't stop staring at that pic of him, he's so adorable!!! Look at that sweet face! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon I'm so glad he's doing better, that's great news! :thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

Well he is certainly the picture of health now. He looks fantastic.
Thank you so much for coming back and giving the update.
This just does my heart good. :Love_Icon

[Duckman]

Joeyskeeper, please don't lose my number. Since I am just across the river from you, I am a close resource, should you need it. So glad to see Joey looking so good! What a turn around!! :Love_Icon Joey :Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

Hi guys - It's been about a week and he is doing so much better. The girl from the vet came and helped me give him fluids every day (so sweet!) and he's been getting antibiotics. He went back in for a check-up today and has blood work done and a urine test. He gained almost 100 grams and his fur looks normal now. The vet said it was like seeing a new squirrel! I won't get the blood work back until Monday - but when I do, I will update you guys! So glad for everyone's help. He is back to himself again. Here's a pic of him from the vet!

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Awwwwweee....Look at that cute, furry little face!:)

Just keep him hydrated and continue with the full course of Cipro/baytril. :thumbsup

[sdreamcatcher]

Yay!! So glad he is feeling better; my second boy is a Joey; he is (finally) wild and free now and just turned 3 :). I hope your Joey continues to get well :Love_Icon

[farrelli]

So happy he's doing well, and he's just SO cute! Can't wait for the new update!

[squirrelmommy22]

I am so happy to see that Joey is recovering, great job!!