Fox Valley Feedback?

[Critter_Queen]

We can't seem to stabilize Dot's stools. As soon as we try to move her from fluids to even the weakest Esbilac formula, she gets liquid diarrhea. No bad smell, it's the right color (most of the time)...so I'm at a loss. I added bioplasma salts (homeopathy) to her formula twice a day as of yesterday and she had a semi-solid poop early this afternoon. She's been gaining weight since Day 1 and that hasn't changed. She eats well. No clicking or any other sign of illness.

I've read that some squirrels won't tollerate Esbilac and in those cases to try another formula that closely matches Momma's natural milk. I've heard really good things about Fox Valley and called them today to order some 20/50 and DIA-STAT. Hubby said to have it delivered tomorrow (Sat) because we both know that we couldn't live with it if something bad happened to Dot cuz we didn't want to fork out the extra $10. (God, I love my husband! :D) She's going on two weeks without solid stools now...I can't take any more time trying this formula.

Does anyone have any feedback on Fox Valley? Like I said, I've heard good things, but am looking for "testimonies" from those who've used it (or know someone who has) to get a "bigger picture".

Thanks!!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Actually, I have had a lot of trouble with Fox Valley formula. That is what Zippy was on when she got bloated and couldn't digest anything. So I switched her to Zoologic milk (33/40 formula). She absolutely loves that stuff and it seems to be easy to digest because she is having no trouble at all. Her poop did get runny when she switched and didn't clear up for a week. I gave her Deliver with Dialena from Chris's squirrel store and that cleared it up almost all the way. It is still a little mushy but nothing major. Someone else that I work with also rehabs squirrels and had the same problem with mushy poop on the Zoologic but says that she thinks the stuff is awesome too. She gave her squirrels oatmeal baby food mixed with their milk (just one teaspoon of the oatmeal baby food mixed with 3 tablespoons of mixed milk) and she says that totally cleared up their poop (I wouldn't recommend that for very young babies though because they may not be able to digest it). Perhaps you could try that with the Esbilac (it is del monte brand oatmeal and bananas baby food). It might just clear it up (I have been using the baby food mixed with Zippy's food for one day now and it hasn't started to clear it up the rest of the way just yet, but her digestive system is slow so it might clear up the rest of the way tomorrow). Or you could try the Deliver, that stuff is great too. It makes their poop weird for a day or two (like gummy worms) but it seems to clear the diarrhea up at least most of the way. It works by coating the intestines.
I know Ryegelhart (sp?) really likes the Fox Valley milk, so maybe she can help you more with it. I have been using it for 3 years and have just switched to Zoologic. I got rid of all of my Fox Valley products including the diastat (it doesn't do a darn thing except provide electrolytes). Also, if you are going to use Fox valley the recommended formula for squirrels is the 32/40 formula, not 20/50. I think that the one you are getting has too much fat in it for squirrels. All of my animals (bunnies and squirrels) seem to have digestive problems on the Fox Valley milk. As soon as they hit the 2:1 milk they either get bloated or get diarrhea. So they always end up just staying at 3:1 milk, which they can survive just fine on but they don't thrive like on the Zoologic milk. It is so bad with bunnies that I got to the point where I didn't even go to 2:1 because they were all getting bloated or getting diarrhea and both problems ended up killing most of them.
I don't mean to scare you off of using Fox Valley. Just wanted to share my experiences with it. I will never use that stuff again. I just love the Zoologic milk, that is what I would recommend trying.

[Critter_Queen]

Actually, I have had a lot of trouble with Fox Valley formula. That is what Zippy was on when she got bloated and couldn't digest anything. So I switched her to Zoologic milk (33/40 formula). She absolutely loves that stuff and it seems to be easy to digest because she is having no trouble at all. Her poop did get runny when she switched and didn't clear up for a week. I gave her Deliver with Dialena from Chris's squirrel store and that cleared it up almost all the way. It is still a little mushy but nothing major. Someone else that I work with also rehabs squirrels and had the same problem with mushy poop on the Zoologic but says that she thinks the stuff is awesome too. She gave her squirrels oatmeal baby food mixed with their milk (just one teaspoon of the oatmeal baby food mixed with 3 tablespoons of mixed milk) and she says that totally cleared up their poop (I wouldn't recommend that for very young babies though because they may not be able to digest it). Perhaps you could try that with the Esbilac (it is del monte brand oatmeal and bananas baby food). It might just clear it up (I have been using the baby food mixed with Zippy's food for one day now and it hasn't started to clear it up the rest of the way just yet, but her digestive system is slow so it might clear up the rest of the way tomorrow). Or you could try the Deliver, that stuff is great too. It makes their poop weird for a day or two (like gummy worms) but it seems to clear the diarrhea up at least most of the way. It works by coating the intestines.
I know Ryegelhart (sp?) really likes the Fox Valley milk, so maybe she can help you more with it. I have been using it for 3 years and have just switched to Zoologic. I got rid of all of my Fox Valley products including the diastat (it doesn't do a darn thing except provide electrolytes). Also, if you are going to use Fox valley the recommended formula for squirrels is the 32/40 formula, not 20/50. I think that the one you are getting has too much fat in it for squirrels. All of my animals (bunnies and squirrels) seem to have digestive problems on the Fox Valley milk. As soon as they hit the 2:1 milk they either get bloated or get diarrhea. So they always end up just staying at 3:1 milk, which they can survive just fine on but they don't thrive like on the Zoologic milk. It is so bad with bunnies that I got to the point where I didn't even go to 2:1 because they were all getting bloated or getting diarrhea and both problems ended up killing most of them.
I don't mean to scare you off of using Fox Valley. Just wanted to share my experiences with it. I will never use that stuff again. I just love the Zoologic milk, that is what I would recommend trying.

Hi SRB2! :wave123 Thanks for your input. You aren't scaring me, that's what I posted for. :thumbsup There are two Fox Valley formulas for squirrels, one for those 3 weeks and younger and one for older than that. Which were you using for your squirrels and how old were they? (just researching, :), forgive me...it's my addiction :) ) I'll be very interested to see what happens. I've already bought it, so I might as well give it a whirl... I'm especially interested to see what the DIA-STAT will do.

Thinking about raising two squirrels on Fox Valley and two on Esbilac and see what happens. Told ya...I'm addicted to research! LOL!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

lol, go for it. I have never used the 20/50. That is the one for squirrels three weeks an older. I just had the 32/40 milk for squirrels, bunnies, and oppossums since I also rehab squirrels and it is easier just having one formula for both. The majority of my squirrels were about 3 weeks old when they switched to 2:1 and got diarrhea or got bloated. Lucky was only about a week and a half old when she went on the 2:1 and got diarrhea. Their ages were all slightly different (Zippy was about 2 and a half weeks old) but the results were the same. My first foxer, my 2 black squirrels and Lucky (my foxer from last year) all got diarrhea from the 2:1 milk and ended up on 3:1 milk. Then this year Zippy got bloated and even the switch back to 3:1 wouldn't clear it up, so I switched. I had already bought the Zoologic for my bunnies because of all the troubles with the Fox Valley milk. I just thought I would use up the rest of my fox valley milk on squirrels since I had just bought it in the fall with Lucky and Cody (my only squirrel who didn't have trouble with Fox Valley milk!), but after the trouble with her I got rid of it for good.
There is one thing I really miss about the Fox Valley milk though. That would be the smell of it. It smells just like cake! I love the smell of it.
I have tried the diastat and it didn't do anything. It tries to do the same thing as the deliver, but doesn't actually work (at least not for me).

[Mars]

CQ - are you getting any probiotics into her? I love Natrens non dairy Megadophilus. I purchase it through the heath food store in a powder and add it to the formula a little bit each feeding. The other trick is to add a bit of vanilla organic yogurt. Probiotics should help end the Diarhea.

[rygel1hardt]

squirrelsruleandbunniestoo It seems that all your rehabs regardless of species or formula get diarrhea so I am thinking it isnt the formula but possibly your water or something else that may be the cause. I have been using Fox Valley for almost six years and have yet to have a baby of either species( I raise both squirrels and possums) get diarrhea. I have never used the Diastat because I have never needed it. I will be anxious to see how it works for you CQ. Stacey



lol, go for it. I have never used the 20/50. That is the one for squirrels three weeks an older. I just had the 32/40 milk for squirrels, bunnies, and oppossums since I also rehab squirrels and it is easier just having one formula for both. The majority of my squirrels were about 3 weeks old when they switched to 2:1 and got diarrhea or got bloated. Lucky was only about a week and a half old when she went on the 2:1 and got diarrhea. Their ages were all slightly different (Zippy was about 2 and a half weeks old) but the results were the same. My first foxer, my 2 black squirrels and Lucky (my foxer from last year) all got diarrhea from the 2:1 milk and ended up on 3:1 milk. Then this year Zippy got bloated and even the switch back to 3:1 wouldn't clear it up, so I switched. I had already bought the Zoologic for my bunnies because of all the troubles with the Fox Valley milk. I just thought I would use up the rest of my fox valley milk on squirrels since I had just bought it in the fall with Lucky and Cody (my only squirrel who didn't have trouble with Fox Valley milk!), but after the trouble with her I got rid of it for good.
There is one thing I really miss about the Fox Valley milk though. That would be the smell of it. It smells just like cake! I love the smell of it.
I have tried the diastat and it didn't do anything. It tries to do the same thing as the deliver, but doesn't actually work (at least not for me).

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I don't think it is the water. I use boiled water or distilled water to make the formula. Zippy is the first animal that I have used Zoologic on and she did get diarrhea, but it was most likely not from the formula but because she did not have enough good gut bacteria, because the yogurt started improving it a little day by day. All of my other animals were on the Fox Valley milk which is what I used for the first three years I rehabbed. I am not saying that Fox Valley milk is not good, just that I have had a very bad time with it and much prefer the Zoologic milk.
Have you ever used Fox Valley on bunnies Rygelhart? That was my main reason for switching because squirrels are usually fine on the Fox Valley after they go back down to 3:1 milk. With bunnies though, I think most of their problems where they die at 3 to 4 weeks of age is from the milk that they were on when they were young. They do not grow as fast as they should (they only gain 1-2 grams a day) and then they get digestive problems. That is the main reason I switched but Zippy was the last straw for me with Fox Valley.
I am glad Fox Valley works for you, though, Rygel1hardt and I hope it works for you to CritterQueen.

[Critter_Queen]

Mars, Yep, all critters here get Bene Bac powder each day. We use it as maintenace from the start of formula.

SRB2, Thank you for your detailed explaination!! :) I appreciate your input very much! Though I would have to wonder why it seems most of your critters have had diarrhea, too. It can be something as simple as not rinsing all the soap off of your syringes/nipples, or not boiling them long enough to sterilize them...or overfeeding. Most squirrels will readily adapt to changes in formula of any kind. I will be sure to keep you posted as to how this switch goes! Thanks again! :thumbsup

rygel1hardt, thank you, too, for your input!! I appreciate it! I'm at a complete loss as to what's going on with this particular squirrel. Though I must say that after two days of giving them all bioplasma salts 2x/day it's made an INCREDIBLE improvement in her stools. They're still not good, but a dang sight better than they've been in two weeks! :D :thumbsup

Thank you all very much. I know that some people feel very strongly one way or the other on certain aspects of rehabbing...so I appreciate everyone's honest input and opinions!

[Mars]

A note about distilled water.

Distilled water is PURE H2O. It is completely stripped of other molecules by the distillation proccess. This is not the natural state of water and is called "empty water". It does not like to being in this state and will work hard to get back to it's natural state by pulling molecules for the blood system. Drinking a 8 oz glass of distilled water has the same effect as taking 2 aspirin. It is a very good choice for a cleansing after a toxin, but I'm not so sure I would give it to babies or use it in formula as it can't really tell good molecules from bad and pulls nutrients from the body as well as toxins. Spring water would be a better choice.

Thsi may or may not be part of the problem you are having with your formulas.:D

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Thanks Mars! I never knew that about distilled water. They told me that you HAVE to use distilled or boiled water to mix the milk with (they always use distilled water) or they will get sick and die. Something about chlorine in the water. They have told me countless other things there that I have found are just not true though, and seeing how they treat their animals, I am really starting to wonder about all of their advice. I usually use boiled water that has cooled back down to almost room temp. Would that do the same thing?

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

What I was trying to say my problem with the Fox Valley milk is is that everything goes fine until they hit the 2:1 milk and then they either get diarrhea or get bloated. Since both of those are almost always fatal in bunnies, I have stopped switching them to the 2:1 altogether and just stick with 3:1 and have not had any problems with either bloating or diarrhea, which makes me think it is the milk. I have not tried leaving squirrels on the 3:1 and not switching them to 2:1 but that may solve the problem as well. Their diarrhea always clears up after they switch back to 3:1 so I imagine they wouldn't have gotten it if I had just left them on 3:1. All of my animals have ended up not growing as fast as they should on the Fox Valley milk though. Not because of the milk was lacking in anything, but because they had to stay on 3:1 and could not make the switch to 2:1. For example, before Zippy, my biggest squirrel with its eyes closed opened its eyes at 120 grams and I got him when he was 4 weeks old, so he was already fairly old and was at a good weight for his age when I got him (92 grams). Other than him my average weight at eyes opening is 95-105 grams, which is pretty small. This is for just fox squirrels. The two black squirrels opened their eyes at 87 and 92 grams. Now, since I switched to the Zoologic, Zippy has been picking up the weight very good and just opened her eyes today at a weight of 148 grams. Significantly larger! It is not because of differences in fat and protein ratios but the fact that Zippy is able to digest the 2:1 Zoologic and could not digest the 2:1 Fox Valley. Zippy is my first Zoologic baby so I do not know how well it works with bunnies or even other squirrels, but from what I have seen so far, I absolutely love the stuff! And Zippy's diarrhea is completely gone today! First the yogurt started to clear it up some then the Deliver cleared it almost all the way up and the baby food with oatmeal completely cleared it up. She is doing great!

[TexanSquirrel]

Hang in there, tiny baby!

[Critter_Queen]

Work is kicking my butt today (typical Monday) but I wanted to throw out an update for this thread.

I have Dot up to nearly 2:1 of the Fox Valley 20/50 (2 parts powder to 1.25 parts water) and she just had the BEST poop yet! LOL! Doing the Happy Poopy Dance!!!! :multi :multi :alright.gif :grouphug :thumbsup I also gave her two doses of the DIA-STAT in lue of two feedings over the last two days. I assume that helped in addition to the bioplasma salts.

Still waiting to see how she does on full-strength starting tonight...But she's gaining weight like CRAZY.

SRB2, I'm not sure about boiling the water...I had no idea distilled water was "dead" water either! I've always used my tap water, but ours is good water (comes from an underground river below my town), I wonder if a PUR water filter would help and save you from boiling it??? (anyone??)

Thanks for everyone's input and support...I think I may have just found my first squirrel that has an allergy or intollerance for Esbilac! :thinking :tilt

[TexanSquirrel]

:alright.gif :alright.gif :alright.gif

[rygel1hardt]

Hey Critter queen you may very well have had a squirrel with any allergy to either the fat or protein source in the esbilac. I am so happy she is improved and I hope she never looks back. Isnt the formula the best smelling stuff? I keep two other formulas on hand just in case I am ever to run into a similiar problem but havent ever needed them so far! Stacey



Work is kicking my butt today (typical Monday) but I wanted to throw out an update for this thread.

I have Dot up to nearly 2:1 of the Fox Valley 20/50 (2 parts powder to 1.25 parts water) and she just had the BEST poop yet! LOL! Doing the Happy Poopy Dance!!!! :multi :multi :alright.gif :grouphug :thumbsup I also gave her two doses of the DIA-STAT in lue of two feedings over the last two days. I assume that helped in addition to the bioplasma salts.

Still waiting to see how she does on full-strength starting tonight...But she's gaining weight like CRAZY.

SRB2, I'm not sure about boiling the water...I had no idea distilled water was "dead" water either! I've always used my tap water, but ours is good water (comes from an underground river below my town), I wonder if a PUR water filter would help and save you from boiling it??? (anyone??)

Thanks for everyone's input and support...I think I may have just found my first squirrel that has an allergy or intollerance for Esbilac! :thinking :tilt

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I am totally with you on the smell of the Fox Valley. It is the best! I really miss that part of using it. I find myself smelling the milk at the center because they use Fox Valley. It smells just like cake.

[SQUIRRELMOM]

fox valley does carry a powder that stops diahria in all animals. I had to use it on a new kitten. worked great. Squirrels,Opposums and such,, fox valley is the best. i've used it for years.

[mommacomet]

I used Fox Valley several years ago when I was raising raccoons. The formula was wonderful and the babies thrived as well as it smelled wonderful too.. They were a great company to deal with as well.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

It must just be me then? I agree, the people that work there are great and very helpful over the phone, and I absolutely love the way the stuff smells, but I just can't get my creatures to thrive on the stuff. The Zoologic works much much better for me. I will see if I continue to like it as we enter bunny season. That will be the true test for me. They were the original reason I switched because they couldn't digest the 2:1 and so I left them on 3:1 and they didn't grow as fast as they should. We will see how it goes.

[dmgualtieri]

I also use fox valley for my squirrels and coonies and have never had a problem.:)

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Does anyone use it with bunnies? That is the species I had the most trouble with. Squirrels had troubles but survived them, unfortunately some of the bunnies did not. They are the reason I originally switched.