Cipromax & Albon / SMZ-TMP NEEDED!!

[Broth3rz]

Preston has been through a crazy ride lately and I'm trying to clear up his diarrhea. I think he may have Coccidia, so I'm need of Albon or SMZ-TMP and can't get them. I'd like to try this and see if all goes well, if not I'll try the Cipromax, which I can't get either. Could anyone ship some of these to me in the mail on Monday and get them here ASAP, I'll pay for shipping via Paypal, just need them fast. Please!

[Charley Chuckles]

Keep bumping this thread it is early and I am sure later on someone will be able to help you, so hang on and keep :bump:bump

[Skul]

Here's the thread that is related to the request.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?42823-Stool-Issues&p=935095&highlight=#post935095

Sorry, we don't have any available right now.

Just thought of something. I think one of those is available at large pet stores.
It's used for treating fish. Don't recall which one, however.

[CritterMom]

I would suggest you go to this site: http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

Scroll down and you will see Baycox in several strengths. It is a much faster coccidia med - three doses. I would CALL them and ask suggestions based on the size of the squirrel; the site also has lots of dosing info. They are reptile people but the only thing that will change with the two strengths is the actual SIZE of the dose. BTW, they do fecal testing for reptiles - they may do it for you if you ask - no idea. I would request next day shipping on it and you would have it Tuesday...

[island rehabber]

I would suggest you go to this site: http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

Scroll down and you will see Baycox in several strengths. It is a much faster coccidia med - three doses. I would CALL them and ask suggestions based on the size of the squirrel; the site also has lots of dosing info. They are reptile people but the only thing that will change with the two strengths is the actual SIZE of the dose. BTW, they do fecal testing for reptiles - they may do it for you if you ask - no idea. I would request next day shipping on it and you would have it Tuesday...

:goodpost:goodpost Baycox is supposed to be much better, now for coccidia than even SMZ.

[Broth3rz]

How is Baycox better but the others cost ALOT more?

Anyways, if I buy Baycox from the link above, which one should I buy? He was at 211 grams and now hes at 206 grams, so hes losing weight because of this now. There are 3 different versions on the website. So which do I get?

[CritterMom]

Well honestly, neither Albon nor SMZ-TMP SHOULD be expensive but many vets just charge to death for meds.

Baycox is a Bayer Pharmaceupticals animal med that was originally used for livestock, so you had to buy huge amounts of it. This place is mixing and diluting it down to be used on small animals - in their case, reptiles, but more vets are starting to use the Baycox on puppies and kittens as well as wildlife. Diluting it down like this means that they can make a huge amount of the stuff for very little money - you can bet they are still making money even charging this tiny amount.

Get the 5% solution.

[Broth3rz]

Will Baycox be at regular Pet stores like Petsco and Petsmart? Or do I have to order it online?

[keetz1205]

Will Baycox be at regular Pet stores like Petsco and Petsmart? Or do I have to order it online?


You'll need to order it online. It comes relatively quick.

[Broth3rz]

Are you serious? I was going to go to Petsmart tomorrow and get it! Are you.. sure?

I hope it is Coccidia... :/

Which one should I get?

http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=478

or

http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=217

Is there any difference?

[Broth3rz]

Also what do I put for the shipping method? I need it quick but it doesn't list the time frame for each method:

Discounted Shipping Zones 2-3 (Weight: 4.00oz) $2.25
Economy +10lbs No Bulbs (Weight: 4.00oz) $18.00
USPS Zone 4 (Weight: 4.00oz) $3.50

Is there another real place I can buy this stuff?

[Broth3rz]

In 20 hours he went from 206g to 202g. I don't know if hes going to make it and if this medication will even help. He's going to be around 188g when I get the meds and hes 9-10 weeks old. Will being 188g kill him? So can someone answer these questions ASAP?

Do I really need to buy it online or would Petsmart have it?
And if not, the shipping with that Dragon website?
Also which one of the 2 do I need and what are the differences between them?
I have some Kaopectate that I tried giving him like 5 days ago for a day and it didn't help. Should I have another go with it until I get the other meds?
If Baycox doesn't help, I guess then I should try Cipromax, where can I get that?

Thanks.. :/

[Unikorngrrl]

You need to get in touch with Eric and let him help you. This is why we had him come get the squirrels to start with. You don't want to treat with ABs unless necessary. What symptoms are you seeing. Why do you think you need ABs? Why do you think Coccidia? What else are you doing? How often are you feeding? What are you feeding? How are you mixing what you are feeding? Are you feeding solids? What solids? What are ALL of the symptoms that you are seeing?? You normally can't willie nillie buy antibiotics. Some fish ABs can be purchased but if you're reading the board you'll see that we're always trying to get meds to people. We may be able to help you but please answer the above questions.

[Broth3rz]

I feed them 3 times a day, every 8 hours, 20 / 50. I give them Henry blocks, carrots, radishes and such but all they do is make a mess, they won't actually eat them. I've been trying to ween them off the formula and onto solids, but no luck yet. The girl is still gaining weight wonderfully like normal.

His stool got mushy, then had blood in it, then got mucus in it. So now he poops a slimy muscus stool and sometimes with some blood in it, and just started losing weight here not long ago. Not wanting to eat like he usually does, but I get him to take the amount he needs to. He sleeps a lot more but still has a good few hour boost of energy daily by jumping and running everywhere and playing with his sister. From what I've heard, that's the symptoms of Coccidia, if not close, stool wise.

I also bought some Vita-Mins from when I bought the blocks, I've gave that to them once a day for a few days and it seems to help his stool some by getting rid of the blood, still has some blood but not nearly as much. It's all I have at the moment, till I get the right medication.

I did try Kaopectate since it is anti-diarrhea. After 3 doses it just turned his stool black or super dark. Didn't form it at all, took him off it. Now my next choice is Baycox as others have faith in to help with these symptoms. Usually Baycox is used for Coccidia, while Cirpomax is more of a wide range medication. So that's why it would be my next choice after that doesn't work, but hopefully it does.

Now I need my questions answered so I can help him, because I want the medications tomorrow or at least ordered here in a few hours so they ship ASAP. :)

Thanks.

[Unikorngrrl]

OK, first you never ever wean a squirrel. So don't try. Give them formula as long as possible. How are you mixing the formula. They should ONLY be getting formula and Henry's Healthy Blocks. At the very least a high quality rodent block or I think some feed monkey biscuits. STOP all of the veggies you mentioned. They are not ready for it...and it's probably part of the issue...

[Broth3rz]

Formula gets 2 waters for every 1. They won't eat the blocks or anything else I give them so there's no way any of it is an issue since their not actually eating it!

Plus he had mushy stool before I started giving anything but the formula to them. This isn't a food issue unless his body is rejecting the FV or he is lactose intolerance. Which would be new.
If there is blood, that to me sounds more like an infection with his bowels. Not a food issue since their only really consuming FV.

[Unikorngrrl]

OK is the diarrhea a greenish color? Both of them would have coccidia if one did... Stay away from the anti-diarrhea meds. JIT strongly recommends against them. Try some baby food pumpkin, and full fat vanilla yogrt. stop all veggies for now and let's see how that goes with the pumpkin added and yogurt. Pumpkin has fiber to firm and bulk stool, and yogurt has probiotics to help restore the normal flora in the digestive system which regulates bowel movements. In fact, I would prefer you get a fresh stool sample and take it to your veterinarian. They will do a fecal exam on the stool and be able to tell you if coccidia is present without a doubt. You don't have to tell them it's from a squirrel, you can tell them it's from a kitten that you're bottle feeding. The LAST thing you need to do is give ABs to a squirrel with diarrhea for no reason b/c you just add to the diarrhea. Weakness is probably due to dehydration. Have you given the hydration formula. Do you still have the recipe?

[Broth3rz]

If the stool isn't just mucus, and when I say that I mean he is like seeping stool ALL day, so it's not like a huge all the time. If it's not just mucus, it's yellow like normal. The girl is perfect in all ways.

I don't believe their dehydrated, their noses are always moist. And they drink water throughout the day that I have in the cage. And no, water isn't whats giving him the runs as I didn't keep water in the cage till after he has his stool issue, which is why i placed it in there so he doesn't get dehydrated from the runs. I can check their mouth if you really want me to, but I don't believe this is the issue. It's not something super simple like that. It's some type of infection I believe, IBS, or something. NOTHING changed then BAM mushy stool which kept getting worse.

So you want me to buy actual baby food, pumpkin, mix it in with full fat vanilla yogurt? I take it that Dannon would work?

[Unikorngrrl]

EVEN if it just looks like mucous it will still have what the Vet needs, it is still feces!!!

Yoplait makes a Yobaby full fat vanilla yogurt. Not just any old yogurt. You can get it at publix. Water would not give them diarrhea period. Diarrhea makes them lose A LOT of water. You need to give the one with diarrhea the hydration formula. He's losing fluids constantly and is dehyrated period. You need to go to the vet with a sample and you need to get him hydrated. That is most likely why he is weak. Coccidia, in my experience with it (and I've seen it A LOT) is usually green. Stool gets mucousy and there will be blood present when the GI tract is irritated. That does not necessarily mean Coccidia. You're correct in that those are Coccidia symptoms, but only part of them.

Hydration recipe is (PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE MEASUREMENTS, DON'T MAKE YOUR OWN RECIPE)

1 cup of water
1 TABLEspoon of sugar
1/4 TEAspoon salt

After 24 hours you will only give sugar water but you will continue the sugar water until the diarrhea has stopped. We will get you meds if you need it, but you need to go to the Vet for a fecal first. Last I heard they charge about $30 for it. The countrier the Vet the cheaper. Any idiot that works in a Vets office can read a fecal and see Coccidia...

[Unikorngrrl]

1) Start hydration formula (recipe above)
2) Stop baby formula and foods for now on that ONE squirrel
3) Get stool sample to the Vet (they will likely give you meds for it IF it is in fact Coccidia, tell them you have 2 kittens! You will need to
treat both if it is Coccidia--If I see diagnosis for Coccidia from the Vet and they don't give you meds I will get some to you)
4) Stop all vegetables for now
5) When you start vegetables you WILL NOT feed the ones that you are feeding. You will go to the Nutrition forum and ONLY feed what is on that list. And follow the instructions for feeding them. And ask questions about what to feed 1st and when!!!!!

[Unikorngrrl]

You can feed the baby food pumpkin and yogurt, 3 hours later the hydration recipe, 3 hours later the yogurt and pumpkin, 3 hours later the hydration formula. You can do every 2 hours instead of every 3 after a few times. You need to go REALLY REALLY easy on his GI tract (tummy and intestines). I fairly certain you have fed too many of the wrong veggies too early and this is going to be your problem.

[Broth3rz]

I have Pedialyte, I'll take it out of the freezer. What's the dosage on that for the 24 hours?

I"ll look for Yo-baby full fat vanilla yogurt from Yoplait, green package, right? Any baby food pumpkin?

I'm not sure if I can get to a vet. Don't really have cash, nor transportation, and I don't even know a place that actually does testing. All the ones around here send it out I believe.. I can make some calls in the morning.

I really hope he is dehydrated if I'm going to be giving him Pedialyte because it's just going to make it worse. I can check his mouth and if its moist, hes not dehydrated. And I promise you, he has mushy stool BEFORE any new foods that were placed in the cage. And again, they DON'T get them, I watch them waste it, lol.

It was only the FV, nothing changed, then it all of a sudden happened. THough I was told it was okay for them to munch on some acorns so I gave them that and it was around the same time this all started to happen, I think. What could acorns do?

[Unikorngrrl]

I have Pedialyte, I'll take it out of the freezer. What's the dosage on that for the 24 hours?

I"ll look for Yo-baby full fat vanilla yogurt from Yoplait, green package, right? Any baby food pumpkin?

I'm not sure if I can get to a vet. Don't really have cash, nor transportation, and I don't even know a place that actually does testing. All the ones around here send it out I believe.. I can make some calls in the morning.

I really hope he is dehydrated if I'm going to be giving him Pedialyte because it's just going to make it worse. I can check his mouth and if its moist, hes not dehydrated.

ALL Vets do their fecals in the office. It's not something they send out! PEDIALYTE NEVER MAKES DIARRHEA WORSE, EVER!!! Checking his mouth IS NOT going to help you see if he's dehydrated. If he has diarrhea HE IS DEHYDRATED. I'm not making this up as I go along!!

[Unikorngrrl]

MANY people here on the board (very experienced) prefer the hydration recipe over the pedialyte. You feed the same amount you would of formula. If he's approximately 200 grams you would feed 10-14cc

[Broth3rz]

Pedialyte, when hydrated will dehydrate them, that was my point. So you can't over do it.

I'll make some calls to the vet in 5 hours.

I"ll look for Yo-baby full fat vanilla yogurt from Yoplait, green package, right? Show me which one: http://www.yoplait.com/products
Any baby food pumpkin? Mix them together?

I'll get those in 3 hours. DO the water first then that mixture, then water, then mixture for every 3 hours. Until diarrhea is gone, right?

By that time lets hope I get a stool test result.

[Unikorngrrl]

A stool test result only takes about 20 minutes tops. Yes do the mix.

Diarrhea is the body pulling water out of the system into the stool and disposing of it. GIVE THE PEDIALYTE or the recipe that I gave you. EVERYTHING dehydrates when it has diarrhea. EVERYTHING!!! Yes you can mix the yogurt and pumpkin and yes you can give it that way. You will need to stay on the board A LOT. We will need to know what is going on constantly. This may not be your answer, but it is certainly where I would start. Like I said, if it is Coccidia the Vet will most likely give you meds. I wouldn't call around, I would just show up with the sample. They are very likely to insist that you bring the "kittens" in if you make calls. You are much more likely to get the test done without the exam charge if you just show up. Go to the most country Vet you can think of. We will re-evaluate tomorrow after you go to the Vet and after you have given him pumpkin and yogurt for a few feedings. You will not be able to just be gone after this. Diarrhea is extremely dehydrating and dehydration is usually what kills them, not the cause of the diarrhea. It cannot just continue. We will need to keep working on this until we get it stopped!! Please go on and print the nutrition information so that you will have it on hand.

[Broth3rz]

I'll just say its stool from a kitten that died and I need to know what it was.

Show me which yogurt: http://www.yoplait.com/products

[Unikorngrrl]

I'll just say its stool from a kitten that died and I need to know what it was.

Show me which yogurt: http://www.yoplait.com/products

NOOOO then you certainly won't get meds. Show up with the sample, tell them orphaned kittens. I'm telling you what is most likely going to work. You're trying to get the meds for it too if it is coccidia. Don't call, just go in with the sample...they will not give you meds for a "dead" kitten.

Here is one: http://www.stonyfield.com/products/yogurt/yobaby/yobaby-original/vanilla Sorry it's not yoplait brand...

[Broth3rz]

Alright, I'll show up with it after I call and see how much it is and make sure they do it, but say nothing about exam or anything. Then if they insist on bring the animal in when I'm there then I guess I'll be forced to say that its from one that died and the others have the same symptoms, which were relocated, but still need information for them. Then buy the medication from that Dragon website.

What if my store doesn't have that yogurt? I've never seen it there..

[Unikorngrrl]

Alright, I'll show up with it after I call and see how much it is and make sure they do it, but say nothing about exam or anything. Then if they insist on bring the animal in when I'm there then I guess I'll be forced to say that its from one that died and the others have the same symptoms, which were relocated, but still need information for them. Then buy the medication from that Dragon website.

What if my store doesn't have that yogurt? I've never seen it there..

Any vanilla yogurt that does not say reduced fat, low fat, fat free, or light should be ok. ALL Vet offices do fecal exams. It will be approximately $30. Say, "I have 2 orphaned kittens that I am bottle feeding. One has diarrhea and a friend said it might be coccidia or worms. Could you please check this sample for me?" That should get you what you need. Offer as little information as possible. Tell them you have limited funds and limited transportation. Sob story it, you're just trying to help save innocent little lives. Please, please help you. We can dose meds for you after you get them. Don't just give meds period!!! They will need to be adjusted for squirrels!!!

[Broth3rz]

So go ahead and start the water now? It's only been 3 hrs since I last feed him FV, 10cc.

Also your PM is too full to PM you.

[Unikorngrrl]

You can give plain water constantly!! The hydration recipe every few hours...yes you can give it now. It's not set in stone like formula is. I'd give it very often for the first 24 hours. After that we will see how he is, what the Vet says, and try new stuff if nothing has helped. :thumbsup Do you still have my number in case you need anything?

[Broth3rz]

I have the number. I will just do the salt sugar water every other 3 and between that pumpkin stuff. Try and do the vet thing. Not sure he will take the full 10cc.

[Unikorngrrl]

I have the number. I will just do the salt sugar water every other 3 and between that pumpkin stuff. Try and do the vet thing. Not sure he will take the full 10cc.

He may not, but try to get as much as possible in him. The sugar in it may very well stimulate him to eat. You can do plain water ANYTIME, as often as you want to try and as much as he'll take! :thumbsup

[Broth3rz]

Had to force him, kept turning his head and everything not wanting too. But he got 10cc just now. guess I'll do that Yogurt thing in 3 hours. How much do I give him of that? 5%? because I think hes going to be too full to eat in 3 hours since FV was 3 hours ago and he just got water now.

It's okay to microwave this salt sugar water to warm it up, right?

[Unikorngrrl]

You shouldn't use the microwave to warm anything for the squirrels. Heat a mug of water, drop the filled syringes down into a sandwich bag and the bag into the mug. That's an easy way anyway. He most likely will not take that much yogurt and pumpkin. It's going to be more filling. Try to get him to lick at a spoonful and see how that goes. If it doesn't go over well, try to give it in a syringe. If you can only get him to eat a tiny bit at a time that's ok. I wouldn't buy a ton. just a jar or 2. You may not need it long! You don't have to force the entire 10cc of hydration either. He will lose those fluids before feeding time most likely, but just as much as you can get him to take. Even if it's a couple of drops here and there.

[Broth3rz]

He didn't want any water really. What's the mixture for that pumpkin? Like the ratio. Stop FV for today?

[Unikorngrrl]

Update. Vet said no parasites and no Coccidia. I've advised to STOP all veggies, and for the sick one only, dilute FV, add pumpkin and yogurt. Then wait and give it time to work. Any other ideas? I'm going to copy and paste thread and email to Jackie also, but I'm thinking the veggies he fed were the culprit.

[ALittleNutty]

Just throwing my two cents in here but since we aren't sure what caused it, I would clean cage, bedding and everything with a mild bleach solution. Is the bedding something he could have ingested? Just brainstorming for a solution.

Hope this little one feels better soon!

[Unikorngrrl]

Since he needs very detailed direction, please give EXACT measurements for the "mild bleach solution" or there is no telling :shakehead

Cleaning it is a good idea. Broth3rz, it might be a better idea for you to use dish soap and water. You are still using fleece for bedding right? No crazy stuff you decided on. No cedar or anything like that?

Good idea ALN!! :thumbsup

[sdreamcatcher]

IF using bleach, rinse thoroughly and let dry BEFORE putting them back in the cage. White vinegar would work better maybe? It kills germs but even full strength is waaaaay safer then bleach. Could he have eaten something he stashed? Sammy got sick once after eating something that was stashed.

Drop by drop fluids; don't force just hold him and offer a drop at a time and wait for him to lick it up. Squirrels seem to like the taste of pedialyte. GO SLOW.

[ALittleNutty]

Bleach Cleaning Solution
1/2 cup bleach
1 gallon water

You can add a teaspoon or two of dish detergent if you like.

Hard Items:
Scrub every nook and cranny. For tight spaces like corners of cages an old toothbrush works great. Leave on for 10 minutes, then rinse for at least 5 minutes with clean water. Make sure you rinse, rinse, rinse! Air dry completely, out in the sunshine works great!

Soft Items:
Just add 1/2 cup or even 1 cup of bleach to the washer load with your laundry detergent, unscented/sensitive skin is best. Dry as usual.

I prefer to follow this at a minimum of once a week but twice a week might be better until you get this under control.

[sqrlmum]

Going to chime in here:

1. Dannon makes full-fat plain yogurt, and it's for adults. I found it at WalMart, so if you have one with a grocery then you might want to check it out there as it's cheaper than YoBaby (anything for kids always seems to be so price-inflated). It's got a lot of blue in the label with some red & black lettering.

2. Coccidia may not show up in the fecal as it's squirrelly like that (yes, I went there). What I do is go by smell if the fecal's negative and the poop is yellow. To me, and I have a perpetually pregnant nose, cocc smells like dirt mixed in with a little rotten egg. It almost smells "grainy" if you can apply a texture to a smell. Giardia is going to look more greenish and also make your eyes water, it's so nasty. I hate to recommend it, but keep smelling the poop. If it smells like almost nothing, then it might be overfeeding or dehydration. You may have to re-test for coccidia, but again keep in mind it will play hide-n-seek with you in those fecals sometimes.

3. Dehydrated kids won't process food, which leads to more diarrhea and consequently more dehydration. I've had kids dehydrate at the drop of a dime and then no matter how much formula you give them, they're just pooping out light yellow squishies 24/7. My suggestion is alternate water and the homemade rehydration solution, giving warm water every hour/2 hours and then rehydration every 3 or 4. THEN start back on FV only, and add pumpkin after a good 2-3 formula feedings if they're still really loose.

4. Skip the baby pumpkin and go for plain canned - it's less expensive (dang human kids making everything so pricey). Make sure there's no sugar or anything added; ingredients should read ONLY water and pumpkin. I keep some in the fridge during the season in a resealable Tupperware because there's always that one kid that makes you completely insane(r)...