10 week old female red squirrel sudden onset of lethargy and dehydration please help

[coco]

Hello squirrelers
Please help she was fine this morning came home andshe jusleep. Denot a case of aspiration. I suspect mbd :(. I have starreted her on calcium via syringe and pedialyte. She is almost weaned daily food is kale tomatoes peas apples grapes avocado as a treat 2ce a week kitten formula in am no nuts. I do give her henrys growth blocks but recently find a stash with just nuts chewed up. She was absolutely wild last night and this am and is just wanting to rest and eating very little.

[coco]

Sorry for spelling my phone is not well either. Oh she is 189 grams

[astra]

Hello squirrelers
Please help she was fine this morning came home andshe jusleep. Denot a case of aspiration. I suspect mbd :(. I have starreted her on calcium via syringe and pedialyte. She is almost weaned daily food is kale tomatoes peas apples grapes avocado as a treat 2ce a week kitten formula in am no nuts. I do give her henrys growth blocks but recently find a stash with just nuts chewed up. She was absolutely wild last night and this am and is just wanting to rest and eating very little.

Hi and welcome.

Ok, let's see if I got correctly:
1. she is raised on kitten formula
2. she is almost weaned, which means she is not eating any formula at all
3. she does not eat HHBs (Henrys blocks) regularly
4. her staple veggies are kale and fruit.

Based on the above:

1. kitten formula is not a good formula for squirrels.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation out there and all new people to sqs end up either with a kitten formula or puppy Esbilac formula.
So, kitten formula does not provide the right nutrition for babies.

2. Moreover, she is almost weaned.
This is another common misconception.
Babies should never be weaned.
They should be allowed to wean themselves when they feel like it. In the meantime, they should be encouraged to eat formula (quality formula, that is :) ) for as long as they want to.
Some babies eat formula well into their release days.
So, early weaning can be another cause of poor nutrition, especially when there is no quality rodent block.

3. Block is another thing - as you probably already know they should eat block daily, regularly.
It's important to check stashes daily and make sure the blocks are eaten.

4. She needs more greens.
Kale is a great choice, but offer other greens from the list of Healthy Diet.

To sum it up, based on the above, it is very possible that she might have an onset of MBD.
And it's good that you started calcium.

So, what you could do for now:

1. MBD protocol
2. SHe is young enough to continue to eat formula.
So, get Fox Valley and try offering it to her.
Now that she is almost weaned, it is possible that she won't take it.
But there is a good chance that she will.
And it is all worth the try, because if she does take it, she will benefit from it greatly.

3. Do make HHBs a priority.
Start morning with HHBs only.
Only after HHBs are eaten, give veggies and treats.

4. Put a heating pad under half of her cage. If she has MBD, heat will be very soothing for her.

Sorry if I am repeating what you already know.

[astra]

Here is MBD treatment:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels ("pet" meaning not just "pet" but captive/rehab):
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?39275-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels-(Revised-2-13)

Fox Valley formula is available :
www.henryspets.com
www.foxvalleynutrition.com

[astra]

Such sudden onset of lethargy is one of MBD symptoms. And given her nutritional background, MBD is very likely.

However, lethargy is also associated with other problems.

You said there is no aspiration.
Do double check it: listen to her chest intently.

Also, is there a chance she might have gotten into something toxic? (e.g., house plants, human personal care items, other pets' toys etc). Maybe, she chewed something and ended up ingesting something?

Might she have fallen and hurt herself?

IN the meantime, do start MBD treatment and hydrate. If this is MBD, you should see improvement fairly soon. If it is not MBD, the treatment won't hurt her.

Please post regular updates, so that TSB experts could help you monitor her condition.
This will allow them to spot any problems, or anything suspicious (if this is not MBD, or if she does not respond to the treatment well).

[astra]

Dealing with Picky Eaters:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?31473-Dealing-with-Picky-Eaters

[coco]

Thank you for reply she is still on about 9 to 10 cc of formula once a day I give it to her until she doesn't want anymore. I wish I knew about kitten milk earlier. She is very picky eater especially vegetables I tried all those foods and she wouldn't eat she was good with blocks for acouple weeks then tricked me.

I'm thankful for your help.

Ps I got her after dogs attacked a nest at my dad's work and local fishand wildlife would not take her. I did so much research and thought I was doing a good job :( such delicate creatures. I got a little calcium and pedialyte she looks a little better but has gone back to sleep

[coco]

Can you scruff a squirrel? Having a hard time getting calcium into her.. she is a sassy one.

[farrelli]

What is scruffing a squirrel? I suggest that you just add the Tums to watr or ground up in baby food, or whatever means is available to you. Seeing that she eats nuts, she may even eat the Tums straight if it's fruit flavored.

[island rehabber]

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT,

A squirrel who is taking 9-10cc of formula per day and is only 10 weeks old most likely does NOT have MBD.

Lethargy is not always MBD. Particularly in a young squirrel, on formula.
Was this squirrel outside in the heat? Did you see any foaming at the mouth, or was she wobbly/unsteady? Symptoms of heat stroke.

[coco]

It is hot today but her cage is out of Sun but it was hot today although it's been hotter

[farrelli]

I agree that it's unlikely, but the treatment will not do any harm while we try to figure out if it's something else.

Seeing that pneumonia is currently in play as a possible cause, great questions about heat! There is a heat wave going on right now, even in some parts of Canada.

Btw, we're just getting a ton of Canucks of late!

[island rehabber]

coco, if I were you I would hydrate her every couple of hours with a solution of 1qt warm water & 3 tablespoons sugar. Dehydration WILL cause lethargy and lack of appetite, and can look very very serious even when it's "only" dehydration.

[coco]

I give her water twice a day she is making her happy sounds and attacked Kleenex boxthen went back to sleep. I gave her a piece of apple from my tree in yard
for first time would that do it?

No house plants she is still able to climb and fight not really eating but takes a couple biteshere and there

[farrelli]

Seeing that we don't really know what's going on yet, you you listened CAREFULLY to hew breathe to make sure there is no clicking?

Also, if she gets really lethargic again, you can put molasses on her gums and that sometimes causes them to perk up. It has sugar and lots of minerals.

After this is all done, you will have to fix her diet to make sure that she eats her blocks. It's super important. We've had a ton of people fight that battle and there are ways to win.

[coco]

I know its not pneumonia she aspirated at four weeks and I took her to vet within an hour . She had a rough night that night but recovered quickly and was on antibiotics for a couple weeks. She is doing a little better more alert its cooled down a bit. Is the pedialyte good? Or is sugar mixture better. If she gets worse I will for sure seek a vet to help

[coco]

So I know clicking well now and feed her so so carefully

[farrelli]

Do you mean to say that you know what clicking sounds like or that you now hear clicking? Your posts aren't always clear. If you hear clicking, action needs to be taken immediately.

[coco]

Nope noclicking I checked and rechecked. I know the sounds her lungs sound good

[farrelli]

Good. Keep us posted. We worry.

[kastillo]

The apple you gave her, did she eat the seeds? Was the apple tree sprayed with pesticide or fertilizer? Any chemicals that may have come from the apple?

Either way getting fluids like pedialyte or sugar water into her is good. Keep giving fluids every couple hours like island rehabber says.
Hopefully she will be feeling better soon.

[coco]

They were crab apples I don't think they were sprayed she is running around a but now her stool was normal 2 hours ago is now a little soft she passed a couple small bous of that and is now climbing everything again and jumping won't take pedialyte or water voluntarily any tips on getting her to? She is eating pine seeds and peas only will not take anything else not even formula

[coco]

I would like to thank everyone for posting, and being so supportive I'm glad to see so many people to help. TSB is amazing! You have helped alieve a lot ofanxiety for me. I am doing everything I can to keep her alive

[SQUIRRELSAREME]

Sending prayers for this little one :grouphug

[coco]

Happy news she is quite spry this morning stealing things climbing us and trying to nest in my hair as usual not eating as much this morning but enough we are staying home to monitor and make sure she stays hydrated still going to keep giving calcium until she is eating her blocks like a champ. Again thank you everyone who helped and pray for the little squirrel :)

[Nancy in New York]

Sounds like a great report.
Yup, I too would be pushing hydration, the calcium
won't hurt but with this recovery it appears to be more
from the heat.
When the temps sore outside, don't even put her out, even
in the shade, it's just too hot, and they probably are accustomed
to the indoors and perhaps even air conditioning. :thumbsup

[CrazySquirrelLady]

it couldn't be MBD with formula drinking daily. introduce a glass water bottle full of water or a dish with glass marbles in it, so she will not drown herself gettin a drink. fill the dish full of glass marbles and add water, this keeps them from sticking nose in too far.

[farrelli]

By "pine seeds" do you mean pine nuts, like they sell in stores? If so, those are super high in phosphorous. Do you know all about calcium/phosphorous balances?

[coco]

She has pine cones.. not pine nuts,, i have read the phosphorus calcium ratio board and try her with the good ratio food...

[coco]

the only nuts she was introduced to are in the henry blocks, when should I introduce what are good starter nuts?

Again this board is amazing.. its like a magic board that has all the answers for me :Love_Icon... i used to foster ferrets, I wish they had one for those...

[farrelli]

Nuts are treats only, one or two a day at most. Almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, and pecans seem the most common/healthiest. It's recommended that they not really get anything else until they are eating their blocks well, then blocks and veggies. They have to eat the good stuff before getting their desert!

[CrazySquirrelLady]

almonds and hazelnuts are the best calcium/phosphorus ratio.