SQUIRREL HIT BY CAR

[webld4u2]

I JUST FOUND A SQUIRREL HIT BY CAR, AND SHE IS DEAD, BUT SHE HAS BABIES INSIDE THAT ARE MOVING. HELP ME DO THIS, OR SOMETHING!!!!!!! HER BODY IS STILL WARM! CAN'T GET TO VET. PLEASE CALL ME OR WRITE BACK ASAP.

[Somebody's Mother]

has anyone responded??

[Somebody's Mother]

i'm calling. i have nursing school experience but not vet school. will help what i can

[drakkonia]

Praying for you and the babies.

[Somebody's Mother]

i need squirrel anatomy NOW

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Call a vet quick!! I had a similar expierance Friday.

[squirrelfriend]

any update on whether the babies made it?

[Somebody's Mother]

we were not able to locate the babies. webld4u2 cut into the area where the babies should have been but was unable to locate them. by the time we got to the area rigamortis was setting in.
either i am going to dissect a roadkill squirrel to get a better knowledge of the internal workings of a squirrel or i am going to find an illustration online. i wasn't much help because i had no idea what it would look like and the exact location. my vet was confused because i said pouch. i meant the uterus or vagina but said pouch. the vet thought i was referring to a pouch like a marsupial would have.

[webld4u2]

Well, let's start by saying that there no babies, that we found. I don't know if it was her, or something else. Doesn't make sense to me. She is most definatley a mom, so I am headed back tp where I found her. I learned alot from Somebody's Mother, and thanks a millon to you for all the help. I will know what to do next time, but hopefully there won't be a next time. I know much more about squirrels than I had ever intended. I will let you know what I find. Darcy

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I am so sorry to hear the babies didn't make it. At least you tried, there may not have been anything that could be done for them anyways if they were too premature or were injured when the car hit their mom. I will have to look into that as well, you never know when you will need that kind of information. We should make a posting for that once we find it too, it may save some babies in the future.

[acorniv]

Wow. That is strange.

Well, I know less than nothing about the subject, but when the cry for squirrel anatomy came out, I went to goggle scholar and searched. Google Scholar is the thing to have when you want to do serious reseach. To find it you go to Google and advanced search and it will be on the list. I looked up sciurus uterus anatomy and found things but I was too unfamiliar with the terminology to be of any help. Hey, I was proud of myself for knowing sciurus! "Squirrel" got me squirrel monkeys.

Perhaps someone who is more familiar with the particulars could look for a good website and post a link for future emergencies? I can see this being a fairly common situation, and it certainly would save critical tme.

Good job, Darcy and Somebodys Mother. And good luck looking for babies that have been born.

laurel

[acorniv]

correction. To find Google scholar, you go to one of the other google options, such as images or news. Then, above the search window, you will see iages news, etc. and also 'more'.google scholar comes up on a list when you hit more

You may all know this, but just in case...

Laurel

[TexanSquirrel]

:( Sorry to hear it didn't work out. But you're right - let's use this as a wake-up call to get our anatomy books out and be ready, just in case!

[Somebody's Mother]

if i can get a diagram of the internal workings of a squirrel i will send a copy to island rehabber and a few of the rehabbers i know on this board. i would then leave it up to island rehabber to disseminate the diagram to the appropriate members.
not to insult anyone here but i have some discomfort at the thought that there are possibly people that would go around drugging squirrels and operating on them. there are some real sickos in this world and i don't want to give them any ideas.

[Gabe]

Many rehabbers learn anatomy of wildlife by picking up roadkill. You can learn to feel for broken bones without causing pain. Then when you have a live animal you will be more efficient in your evaluation. Going one step further, you can cut them open and learn their anatomy too. Make sure you always wear gloves when you try this.

[acorniv]

if i can get a diagram of the internal workings of a squirrel i will send a copy to island rehabber and a few of the rehabbers i know on this board. i would then leave it up to island rehabber to disseminate the diagram to the appropriate members.
not to insult anyone here but i have some discomfort at the thought that there are possibly people that would go around drugging squirrels and operating on them. there are some real sickos in this world and i don't want to give them any ideas.:

:eek: Yes, I suppose you are right:shakehead I was just thinking of incidents such as happened today, where no further harm can come to the mother.

Last dissection I did, I was 3 years old, and my neighbors gave me a table spoon and pointed me to a dead cardinal. They told me it was my duty as the youngest child in the neighborhood, to open him up. I did. Not only did I refuse to do a dissection in high school, I didn't eat peanut butter and jelly for 30 years afterwards! It's hard for me to fathom this being a procedure to do unless you truly had to, and only a real squirrel lover would think they had to :D

Laurel

Laurel

[acorniv]

Many rehabbers learn anatomy of wildlife by picking up roadkill. You can learn to feel for broken bones without causing pain. Then when you have a live animal you will be more efficient in your evaluation. Going one step further, you can cut them open and learn their anatomy too. Make sure you always wear gloves when you try this.

This is a great idea. I never thought to do that. It's really useful to be able to do this - there are so many types of breaks, plus dislocations and sprains. If we had a sense of what each felt like it would have all sorts of practical applications.

I am not making light of a sad incident, but since the urgency has passed, and nothing more can be done, I had to share this:

DS, ever the entreprenure, and a homeschooler, is studying squirrels today. I told him he could do this ( he's 16). His first response was "Thanks Mom, now I don't need lunch.", but a heartbeat later he said "I know - let's collect roadkill and market it in attractive packaging as :"My First Surgery Kit by Subaru" :D

DD meanwhile just announced that Calvin Cooldige would only wear baggy underwear. Ahh., another productive homeschool day.

Laurel

[Somebody's Mother]

another squirrel lover sent me this....

6848

hey, it's a start and more than i was able to find. :D

[thundersquirrel]

whoo boy. i've often thought about having to cut into a dead animal to retrieve babies.

i check dead squirrels sometimes. just to see if it's a boy or girl, and if it's a girl, whether she's pregnant or looks like her babies are nearby. haven't found a girl yet, actually. i've seen some pretty sad boy bodies though. :(

does anyone dissect the squirrels that die in their care? i've always been curious, but i never have the heart to do it in the end.

[Somebody's Mother]

the nfsa has a doctor that will do an autopsy on your flyer for a price. just to determine what they die of. if the animal died prematurely for no apparent reason i would probably opt for an autopsy but if i was sure of what happened i wouldn't have the heart to have him autopsied.
i don't think i could autopsy an animal i was close to or took care of.

[Velvet Squirrel]

Well, first off just because the body was still warm doesn't mean that the squirrel hadn't been dead for 15 to 30 minuets unless you actually saw the incident. Secondly if the mother has already been dead for that long the babies are dead from the lack of oxygen. Thirdly from the time it took to walk in and sit down at the computer and write for help and then the time it took from the first post to SM posting that she needed squirrel anatomy a span of from 10:42 am to 11:02 am if there had been babies they would have been oxygen deprived. If you come across a dead female that you think may be pregnate just snatch it up and as quickly as possible lift the stomach area of skin and cut open then gently feel with you fingers among the muscles for babies and part the muscles, pull the babies out, and tear or cut open the fetal sacks and remove infants. An exacto knife works beautifully but anything sharpish will do. Fourth if it had been a few minuets since the accident most likely what you saw that you assumed was babies moving was nothing more than the body gases being released. This happens in all living creatures even humans upon dieing. I know from experienc of being pregnate in my first trimester that once or twice I thought that the baby was moving when it turn out to be only gas moving around. Many animals whether dogs, cats or humans even evacuate their bodly waste upon dieing.
Last but not least, if her breast looked full then prehaps she did or does have babies some where. Maybe you should listen out for hungry baby cries.

[Somebody's Mother]

we did the best we could. webld4u heard a heartbeat when they listened with a stethoscope. looking at the situation now i suppose that the squirrels heart may have beat after the car hit her. and i thought afterwards that maybe it was muscle spasms that were detected. but you are right it probably was gas. but at least she tried to help.
and webld4u2 went out to listen for babies in the area where she found the squirrel.
thanks for the information on how to efficiently find the little ones.

[island rehabber]

I'm just logging in since early this morning, and wow -- what a day it's been for you guys. First of all :thumbsup :grouphug to webld4u2 for even thinking about the babies and cutting into a dead squirrel to rescue them. And :thumbsup to Somebody's Mother for springing into action and trying to get whatever info was available ASAP. And :thumbsup to Velvet Squirrel for being the voice of reason later on which explains why it could appear that there are babies moving in a dead mother but in reality there are not. You ladies are awesome. I'm going to try to get a good chart of squirrel anatomy which includes the reproductive organs and post it here -- if anyone else comes up with one before me, go ahead and post it. I know that in the case of female opossums the babies can live quite a while in her pouch and one should always check dead opossums for babies -- however it makes sense that in a non-marsupial there would only be a tiny window of time when the babies would still be viable if rescued.
I was at the nature center releasing newyorker's beautiful squirrel Chloe, whose front leg is now healed and whose disposition is somewhere between Attila the Hun and Greta Garbo -- she VANTS to be ALONE, and she lets you know it. :D

[Nutz4squirrels2]

Oh Bless your heart!!!! So glad u did not find babies afterall!! BUt you all have a good idea abt picking up sqls on the road and checking them out and then giving them a proper burial. It just breaks my heart to see them dead. I keep a box in my van and a blanket ever since I saw the car ahead of me hit a sql and I stopped and he was not moving but breathing. Used my coat to pick him up and by the time I got to my hse few minutes later he was coming out of shock or whatever. I took him back to the street where it happened and opened my van door and he finally came flying out! Boy did he have a story to tell around the dinner table that nite!!! So now a have a box ready for whatever needs help. SO guess now I need a morgue box and gloves!! Love all the ideas abt finding out what to do in case of this happening! You are all so terrific and supportive. Webld4u2 we cld all feel the panic........ Glad its over with for you..... Bless U!!!!

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

This same thing happened to us Friday. I seen a squirrel laying in the road..called hubby to pick up & bring home and then realized she may have babies...but realized later she wasnt a new Mom. Still walked several blocks listening and looking for her nest. She was buried here.

[webld4u2]

I still haven't heard the babies, and have been out 5 times now. Plan on going out at dusk. And if I do hear them, I will call every tree climber in the county to get them down if I have too. I will keep you posted.

[Gabe]

webld4u, baby squirrels will NOT be out of the nest or calling for mama today. It has been documented numerous times that they stay in the nest for 3-5 days awaiting her return. This is their instinct. Then, when they are at starvations door, they will venture out looking for food. That is why squirrels are in such rough shape when they are found.

PLEASE continue to look for them for the next five days. I wish you the best of luck, because it feels so frustrating looking and listening for them. Check the base of the trees, let your cat or dog out for a walk with you. Their senses are so much better than ours and can hear and smell what we cannot.

[Nutz4squirrels2]

Hey need to clarify!!!! I meant I was glad u did not find babies IN the mama not that you have not found them yet!!! Gosh, I felt terrible when I re-read that and how in sounded..// Excellent idea to take the dog and I will be praying you find them! Such good info abt them not leaving the nest for days before they venture out!! I never knew that! Plz keep us posted!!

[acorniv]

This whole thing has opened my eyes. I will never see a squirrrel in the road the same way again - and I see them every day - sometimes a dozen, in a day. It never occured to me that every one of those squirrels potentially has a nest somewhere :Cry

I think I will need some meds for OCD if I'm going to hang around you folks much longer, Anxiety meds won't be enough:nurse

Laurel

[thundersquirrel]

average person's car materials:

cd case
blanket
spare tire
registration

squirrel lover's car materials:

portable shovel
medical gloves
surgical knife
anatomy guide

:D
if you don't have these things in every car, get them. a small bag of peanuts in the trunk never hurt either. :)

[webld4u2]

Well, I will most certainly be out there everyday looking for the little ones. I pray I will find them. I went numerous times today, but didn't take my dog. Will do so tommorrow. The only problem is that I will be in peoples yards. I will let them know what I am doing, but I live in the country and I don't think many people look at squirrels the same way I do. They always look at me like I am crazy:crazy .....oh well. They'll have to get over it. My sister-in-law was with me today helping with the hit and run squirrel, and has been helping me look and listen. The more eyes and ears the better. Now if I could only get all the insects and birds to shut up!:D
Anyway, will keep you all up to date on this drama here. Also wanted to mention that I moved Tom to his release cage today. He is very happy outside!!!:thumbsup
Talkto you all soon. And, Somebodys Mother, thanks again! You didn't have to help me, but you did, with much patience, and I am grateful. :thankyou :bowdown

[TexanSquirrel]

Maybe someone should ask the necropsy guy for information. He would know...

[Bell & Noah]

webld4u2 :bowdown

[acorniv]

:bowdown to the poor little mama who lost her life so we could all learn more how to help her species.:thankyou Mama squirrel.

I hope you find her babies:thinking Do you see any nests nearby?

If a person finds them crying, how do we get them ( before the prey folken do)? Do we wait for them to climb down, or try to go after them?

Mine evidently climbed down her tree, and the man she went to never thought to look for more, though he did try to take her back, so probably would have heard one if it had cried. I keep wondering what happened to them, but I suppose the obvious :Cry

Laurel

[Somebody's Mother]

if webld4u2 locates the nest she will either use a ladder or whatever means necessary to get to the little ones. webld4u2 is serious about helping these wee ones. she feels the sooner they are located the better.
(that is what she told me yesterday over the phone)

[Momma Squirrel]

Good luck in the search, I know if they are out there you will find them and they will be in very good hands. Keep us posted :)

[webld4u2]

I have been out 3 times today and no luck yet. There must be 5,000 nests on this one stretch.....ughhhh...:shakehead
I couldn't even sleep last night due to the fact I was worried about the little ones. It only got down in the 50's, and it is in the 80's today. So, they should be warm enough, I hope. I will write again later!

[Twirly Squirly Squirrel]

Oh my. When I read this thread I thought,"How gory" but realized I'd want to do the same thing if in that situation. I did think of the bodily gases and whatnot that Velvet had mentioned. I just hope you're able to find those babies,web! Good luck and prayers sent for you on your mission!

[webld4u2]

Well, just back from looking again, and nothing.:soapbox
This is tearing me up....God I hope I can find them.

[TexanSquirrel]

I hope you find them!

[webld4u2]

Just letting you all know that we have been looking and we have not had any luck. Hopefully they were old enough to survive, or somebody else found them?? At least that's what I will keep telling myself...I will continue to keep my eyes and ears open for a couple more days.