first pee issues, now poop...ugh

[pappy1264]

Ok, Rocky has only pooped a tiny bit since yesterday. Gave him a couple cc's of watered down apple juice last feeding (nothing else). He is due to eat, should I just give more of that? I have never dealt with constipation, only diarrhea. He is on the gm recipe and even that I had watered down. I am at a loss and need help. I can't soak him, which is the frustrating part, because of his amp. Please help. I know, I have done so many squirrels but never dealt with constipation like this. I am yet again worried about him. What do I give him since he is due to eat?

[TubeDriver]

Ok, Rocky has only pooped a tiny bit since yesterday. Gave him a couple cc's of watered down apple juice last feeding (nothing else). He is due to eat, should I just give more of that? I have never dealt with constipation, only diarrhea. He is on the gm recipe and even that I had watered down. I am at a loss and need help. I can't soak him, which is the frustrating part, because of his amp. Please help. I know, I have done so many squirrels but never dealt with constipation like this. I am yet again worried about him. What do I give him since he is due to eat?

Bumping this up! Rocky needs helpful advice!

[pappy1264]

Does anyone know if I can use Canola oil, just a couple of drops, to see if it will help (I know I can with the gliders). He is bloating now too. I can't soak him because of the staples. I am loosing it. Am trying to do warm, damp cloths around his belly. Have to go run out and get gas drops (can't find mine, I know I have some, but faster to just go buy more). If anyone can think of anything else. I just got 1 cc of sugar water in, but he fought it really bad. My poor little man.

[CritterMom]

Is he bloated at all?

Goats milk does not have a lot in the way of solids - nothing like FV - and you are watering it down. Might he simply not have enough solids in him right now to have anything to pass? I see so many new finders worrying about no poops when it is just a case of there being nothing in there to poop yet - and I wonder if that could also be the case with Rocky.

[pappy1264]

Yes, he is bloating and refusing foods/fluids. (He got a days worth of the gm recipe w/yogurt and heavy cream not watered down, so def. should be some poop). What does come out is soft, although not diarrhea, but such a tiny amount. I am dumbfounded.

[farrelli]

With bloating, no more foods. A couple drops of oil would be great, along with a drop or two of infant Gas-X. Though you can't soak him, you can still massage his sides and belly.

[pappy1264]

Ok, will give the oil then run out and grab the drops (so mad, I have a whole bottle, but will be damned if I can find them...gggrrrrr...good thing head is attached!)

[pappy1264]

Just gave him a couple drops of oil, running out to get gas drops.

[CritterMom]

There is nothing like panic to scramble the brain...

Anesthesia does some crazy things to the body. They don't just hang onto you after surgery until you PEE they hang onto you until you poop too because because the digestive/elimination system get so messed up sometimes from anesthesia. I would give him the simethicone and start tummy massages - you want to try to stimulate peristalsis so we aren't talking gentle little surface strokes - don't hurt him but you want to have some pressure there to actually do something. I think the anesthesia leaves these muscles "lazy" for a bit and they don't do their normal contractions that move the food through the gut and intestines.

[pappy1264]

Just got back (funny story for a later time what happened). Going to go give the drops and do more massage. Yes, panic and lack of sleep (did I mention I finished my chicken coop and moved my chickens out today? lol) BRB. Thank you!

[farrelli]

Perhaps in lieu of soaking you could use a warm compress?

[CritterMom]

Perhaps in lieu of soaking you could use a warm compress?

It is really more the being freed from gravity and "floating" in the warm water that allows them to relax their muscles and let go. I would worry about a compress wetting the wound and don't know as though it would do much...

[farrelli]

The heat also helps relax things, so I was thinking in terms of that.

[pappy1264]

Guys, this is bad. Have been doing the compresses, massages (he is crying, its killing me). I don't know what else to do. He is hurting bad. I keep rubbing and rubbing, both stomach and his back, firm but gentle circles then down to his groin, also doing it on sides. He is crying and crying. I'm scared I am going to loose him. He is in so much pain. I keep trying to stimulate, only got pee, no poop, not even seeing it up there.

[SammysMom]

Did the rice buddy help the other day, sort of draping him over it on his tummy?

[farrelli]

Did you read the thread the other day about warm water and/or glycerine enemas?

[pappy1264]

I have no clue how to do that.

[farrelli]

Oops:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?42004-What-else-for-constipation

[farrelli]

You could also go to the store and get some baby laxative if this is bad enough. Ask the pharmacist. I believe there are two kinds, stimulative and non, and I think you'd want the former to get the works moving again.

Also, no apple juice at this point because though it pulls water into the gut, it contains sorbitol which can sometimes cause gas.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I had to rub Simons poop out
I would put my thumb on one side of his anus and my finger on the other side and roll , rub, squeeze lightly to work his poop out , he had no bowel control. Don't push on his tummy.
Also grease up a q-tip and work it around his anus it may help to stimulate ,slow ,easy gentle .

[farrelli]

I just tried to PM you Uni's number but your box is full. She just went through this and knows about enemas and such. I have to go in about 5 min.

[pappy1264]

OMG, someone just showed up in my driveway with a baby squirrel, smaller then Rocky, bloody nose, fell two stories, idiots that found it were junkies, fed it cows milk. God, I want to just go crawl under a rock. He is in with Rocky, because well, at the very least warm body to snuggle up to. God help me!

[SammysMom]

Oh Mary, I am sending up prayers for all of you... I wish I could help. :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[stepnstone]

Mary I'm praying for you both, breathe and get your nerves under control.
This baby has come so far already... I'd try doing an enema, you can do this. :grouphug

[pappy1264]

Ahead of you, Step, just did one. Going to give more gas drops (been a couple of hours and they seemed to help a bit, although feels like his belly is getting harder again...sigh.) Still no poop, but we are trying. And now I have a baby with a bloody nose that fell two stories! They are together, because at the very least I figured having a warm body to snuggle with would help both. New little one (a girl, who I have named Adrianne) weighs 78 grams, blood in nostril, no other signs of trauma, but was told it had been fed cow milk...ugh, so started fluids, after she warmed up. Not what I needed right now, but hoping they will help pull each other through. OMG, a most likely nr missing a limb and god help me, but what if this baby has head trauma issues and.....I feel dizzy!

Back to Rocky. Just going to keep trying everything, trying to get that gas out. May run over to Jodi's for some sub-q's in a bit so he does not get dehydrated, plus more fluids to hopefully get that gut moving. Got to get that gas out though...I'm trying. Doesn't help I cannot soak him.

[pappy1264]

Here are three pics I took of them.212800212801212802

[SammysMom]

Did you ask the vet about the soak?

[pappy1264]

I know I can't, too early. That could open up a whole new issue.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I had to rub Simons poop out
I would put my thumb on one side of his anus and my finger on the other side and roll , rub, squeeze lightly to work his poop out , he had no bowel control. Don't push on his tummy.
Also grease up a q-tip and work it around his anus it may help to stimulate ,slow ,easy gentle .

don't know if you aw this so I am bumping it.
It dose work.

[pappy1264]

I have been doing that. I don't even see any there. He is so gassy, its awful. I just gave him more infant gas drops a little while ago, they seem to help.

[farrelli]

Could you outfit him with a sandwich bag bathing suit and soak him that way? Btw, I looked it up and I was right about the heat relaxing the muscles and letting gas pass.

[pappy1264]

Just got back from Jodi's, sub-q's for both of them....ugh. He is in pain. I am dying inside. I am trying everything. I don't know how long he can go on this way.

[SammysMom]

What meds and doses is he taking?
Just got back from Jodi's, sub-q's for both of them....ugh. He is in pain. I am dying inside. I am trying everything. I don't know how long he can go on this way.

[pappy1264]

He is on baytril and metacam, 1x a day. Still working on him. Did get some poop, not a lot, but still some, but boy did he cry as he went. His rectum does not look swollen, so assuming it is just from all the gas, it hurt. About to try some fluids by mouth. He keeps trying to suck on my fingers, so hoping. This is killing me.

On a good note, Adrianne took more fluids by mouth and this time was much more 'with it' sucking on the syringe, so that is good (she was in rough shape).

I am SO TIRED!!!

[SQUIRRELSAREME]

Sending :grouphug :grouphug and prayers for rocky

[ques96]

I don't post much anymore but wanted to let you know I have been lurking:grin3 and saying prayers daily for you and Rocky and will now be adding Adrianne to my prayers.

[Unikorngrrl]

How's it going pappy?!? Some is a start!

[lilidukes]

Deep breathes Mary you can do this. :grouphug

Perhaps adding Adrianne to the mix will do him a lot of good.
Someone to snuggle with and not to be alone anymore.
A real blessing in the long run.

Rocky :Love_Icon :grouphug :Love_Icon

You might want to do diluted apple juice between feeding
for a few days.

[TubeDriver]

Rocky and Pappy!:grouphug:grouphug

[pappy1264]

I am a mess. I honestly thought I would find him passed this morning. He seemed a little better last night, got some poop, not a ton, but some. So I very slowly gave him sugar water by mouth, literally a drop at a time. He seemed to do ok, got 3 cc's into him. I held him for a few, then put him back in and OMG, he started making sounds like I had never heard, a grunt/scream kind of noise. I thought he was dying! I picked him up, his belly was a big hard ball (it was not like that when I put him down.) I have to get to the vets today, something is not right. I am going to see if they can needle aspirate this air, and scan his belly. I am sick. I don't know what else to do, nothing seems to be really helping. About to give more gas drops (how often can I give those, they do seem to help him). He has NO FOOD whatsover now for over 24 hours, as crazy as that sounds, would that add to the gas? God, why is this happening. to him. I will die if he does not make it through this. He has fought so damn hard, this is cruel beyond words he is now dealing with this.

Little girl seems good, she took several cc's of fluids last night, nose stopped bleeding. Will assess her better in a bit. I am ready to keel over, I am so tired. Have to run, have to bring son to work...ugh.

[stepnstone]

My heart goes out to you Mary, I know how stressed out you are.
I feel so bad for the little guy too, he has been through so much to
have something like this to be happening to him. Hopefully the vet
can help the little guy, I'l be praying for you both... :grouphug

[MJS]

:grouphug PLEASE LET HIM BE OK...:Love_Icon :grouphug

[solarx10]

Hoping for the best :grouphug

[CritterMom]

As far as the simethicone is concerned, I would use whatever is necessary to give him relief - I don't see anything about this being dangerous...

[pappy1264]

I gave him more, he seems a little less 'round' in the belly, and he is lying in a position that says he isn't hurting like he had been. Going to try another enema in a bit. Tomorrow is one week since his surgery, I am going to call the vet and ask about doing the soak, I think it would help him but don't want to cause more problems doing it too soon. TY.

[CritterMom]

I gave him more, he seems a little less 'round' in the belly, and he is lying in a position that says he isn't hurting like he had been. Going to try another enema in a bit. Tomorrow is one week since his surgery, I am going to call the vet and ask about doing the soak, I think it would help him but don't want to cause more problems doing it too soon. TY.

Is this a motility problem? I suspect it is. Might Reglan help? I have no idea, but I think his intestinal muscles aren't doing what they are supposed to...

[pappy1264]

Got some from Jodi last night, she actually said to ask on the board. Does anyone know if I can/should add this in? Jackie?

[pappy1264]

He is acting like he is starving. Can I try some just diluted gm, with nothing else? He has not eaten in a day and a half. My mind is shutting down, I don't know what to do anymore....sigh.

[SammysMom]

If he isn't bloated I would say you can feed GM. What meds is he still on? Isn't it possible that one or the combo of them is causing the tummy upset?

[CritterMom]

Do you have any Benebac? If so, I would add some to his GM...more probiotics than yogurt.

I also would not feed him anywhere near 5% at first.

[MommaLove]

Praying for little Rocky. He has been through so much. What did the vet say? Are they going to do a scan on him?

Poor little man... :grouphug

[island rehabber]

IMHO, nourishment and hydration trumps pooping as far as priority. I would certainly offer him both -- not to excess, but not where he is being starved. :)

[pappy1264]

Ok, just got his meds, including reglan done. Going to give him sub-q fluids, and diluted gm (w/just a little yogurt). Jodi is going to keep him for a couple hours, to repeat the sub-q then I will go pick him back up after I get my son from work. I have been told I should give little nutrical, as well. Gave him another enema this morning, as well as his gas drops. So that is where we stand now. Gayle, I am sure they are not helping but he needs to be on them as he needs the ab's for infection and metacam for inflammation and pain. Have a plan, so at least don't feel so all over the place. Have to go give Adrianne more fluids, she is doing good. Thanks guys!

[pappy1264]

Will be picking Rocky and Adrianne up in a few from Jodi's. She has been giving sub-q's for a bit, so hopefully he will get over this speed bump!

[pappy1264]

Both seem to be doing a little better, Rocky's belly is staying soft, and he is not crying anymore, so hoping and praying we have turned a corner.

[stepnstone]

Both seem to be doing a little better, Rocky's belly is staying soft, and he is not crying anymore, so hoping and praying we have turned a corner.

Well.... did you get :poop :dono

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

yeah ...............:poke what he said

[stepnstone]

:secret Me thinks after a very long night and a very busy day
Mary is the one who "pooped" out.

[MJS]

:grouphug ROCKY :grouphug

[pappy1264]

No, I didn't *yet Step! lol He seems better tonight, no poop, but it will come I am sure. I started him back on very diluted gm/yogurt (Adrianne has started that too), and after two feedings, belly is staying nice and soft. Will have one more in about 40 mins, and then they will get a good nights rest (we all will) and start fresh in the morning. Thanks guys for holding me up during this, I really was falling apart (lack of sleep makes me even more emotional!) I am coming up on the one year anniversary of Nut getting killed, so I am a mess as it is. But my whole heart is wrapped around Rocky, and I was so worried I was going to loose him, I was loosing it just thinking about it and it made me not be able to think, to focus. So thank you to everyone for the help, kind words and Step and Uni, a special thanks to you both....you were exactly what I needed. Thank you for all your help. Little Rocky surely has had a lot of bumps along this road....he truly is a fighter!:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

I hope so much that Rocky makes it through this and gets better. You are doing a wonderful job with him. Keep fighting Rocky!

[pappy1264]

Thank you. A little bloaty this morning, so going really slowly. Adrianne is doing great, she needs to help pull Rocky through this and get things going!

[CritterMom]

This is sheer curiosity on my part - have you continued to give the Reglan? I ask because I know you gave some yesterday and he seemed to improve somewhat.

Also, are you giving him any source of probiotics other than yogurt? I sure would add some benebac...the problem with yogurt is that they don't have to list how much of their version of lactobacillus they are putting in - it could be a healthy amount or almost none and there is really no way to tell. It won't do anything for decreased motility if that is the problem but it will certainly quckly help repopulate the gut bacteria that the antibiotics is killing off. Give it with the feeding that is the longest away from the abx (like if you give ABX at 6AM/6PM, give the benebac at noon).

[pappy1264]

Yes, still on reglan. I do have the probiotics from FV, should I give that? He would only take 2 cc's this morning. He is on very diluted gm/yogurt. He only gets baytril once a day, first thing in the morning (it is such a small dose, vet said to just give once, not to split up). Just did another enema. Someone mentioned a baby suppository (breaking off a tiny sliver and put it there, but I worry it will make him cramp. Anyone ever used them?) Also, wondering if this could be a gm issue. I make it fresh, from powder, mix it really well, then add in yogurt. What is the stuff Chris sells to feed that is made for babies that have really hard time digesting anything else? Does anyone know? Wondering if I should get that to at least see if it will get his system going better.

Adrianne is doing great, eating like a champ. Poop was a little soft last night, but not overly concerned (yet). She is well hydrated and we are going slow.

I am just worried about Rocky and getting nutrients in, and getting him pooping.

[CritterMom]

Yes, still on reglan. I do have the probiotics from FV, should I give that? He would only take 2 cc's this morning. He is on very diluted gm/yogurt. He only gets baytril once a day, first thing in the morning (it is such a small dose, vet said to just give once, not to split up). Just did another enema. Someone mentioned a baby suppository (breaking off a tiny sliver and put it there, but I worry it will make him cramp. Anyone ever used them?) Also, wondering if this could be a gm issue. I make it fresh, from powder, mix it really well, then add in yogurt. What is the stuff Chris sells to feed that is made for babies that have really hard time digesting anything else? Does anyone know? Wondering if I should get that to at least see if it will get his system going better.

Adrianne is doing great, eating like a champ. Poop was a little soft last night, but not overly concerned (yet). She is well hydrated and we are going slow.

I am just worried about Rocky and getting nutrients in, and getting him pooping.

I would say yes on the FV probiotic - LA right - it is just straight Lactobacillus acidophalus, which is pretty much the go to probiotic.

[pappy1264]

Yes, ok, added that to the formula. Now, any idea what the stuff Chris sells to feed for babies that have trouble digesting food? Not a supplement, it is a food.

[pappy1264]

this is it....http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/rehab-supplies/supplements-electrolytes/vital-hn.html

I am wondering if I should try this, because he is loosing weight and I am concerned.

[pappy1264]

Ok, this feeding went better, belly was nice and soft. He happily at 5 cc's of the diluted gm (with the probiotics added). She took 4 cc's. We will see what next feeding holds!

[TubeDriver]

Ok, this feeding went better, belly was nice and soft. He happily at 5 cc's of the diluted gm (with the probiotics added). She took 4 cc's. We will see what next feeding holds!

:thumbsup

[MJS]

:wave123 HEY MARY...GLAD HE'S DOING BETTER...POOR LITTLE GUY...WHAT A TOUGH TIME HE'S HAD!!! ARE YOU GIVING HIM ANY NUTRICAL? I THOUGHT I SAW IT MENTIONED EARLIER AS A POSSIBILITY. IF NOT, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER IT AT LEAST WHILE HE'S GETTING DILUTED FORMULA. IT'S FULL OF NEEDED CALORIES AND NUTRIENTS...HE'LL PROBABLY JUST LICK IT OFF YOUR FINGER TIP AND IT MAY EVEN HELP HIS POOPING ISSUES. JUST A THOUGHT. :thumbsup :Love_Icon

[stepnstone]

Just checking in to see how our little man is doing,
glad you are seeing a little improvment. :grouphug
Holding out on smoking the cigar until I hear :poop:poopand more :poop.

[pappy1264]

:Drink:fireworks:wave:poop:poop It was only two, but they were normal size, normal color, normal consistency and he did not cry when he did them! I know it isn't much, but it is a start!! He just ate 5 cc's again of the diluted gm. :crazy

[SammysMom]

Yeah!!! :poop:poop:poop
With his limited intake of solids, 2 is probably just fine. GM has very little solids in it if I am not mistaken.

[stepnstone]

:Drink:fireworks:wave:poop:poop It was only two, but they were normal size, normal color, normal consistency and he did not cry when he did them! I know it isn't much, but it is a start!! He just ate 5 cc's again of the diluted gm. :crazy

Yes it is!! :wott
...Still not going to smoke a cigar until it's rolling down your arm. :grin3

[pappy1264]

or bouncing off my leg! lol

[stepnstone]

or bouncing off my leg! lol

Yepper, that'll work too! :thumbsup

Which ever way the :poop rolls, as long as it rolls!

Lordy we are a sick bunch... :rofl4

[pappy1264]

lol....you mean not everyone gets excited about squirrel poop?

[stepnstone]

lol....you mean not everyone gets excited about squirrel poop?

Ha! You should have seen my son's reaction when he realized he accidently touched one.
You would have thought he slipped into a cow pod. :jump

[Fireweed]

:poop Go, Rocky, go! Everybody poops - join the club! It's fun!

Step, can you buy poop cigars? :thinking I know you can buy poop tea - there's gotta be poop cigars out there! That would be a great raffle prize.

[farrelli]

Awesome!

They do make chocolate cigars. Fitting in shape and perhaps color.

[stepnstone]

Step, can you buy poop cigars?

I smoke a pipe,
I suppose I could crush a few dried rolls up in it and get back to you.
Might start a new trend, think of the money I could save on tobacco.... :grin2

[Fireweed]

They do make chocolate cigars. Fitting in shape and perhaps color.
I think that's the better way to go... I just made the mistake of googling "poop cigars". Not the kind of poop cigars I was thinking of... :sanp3

But there is a cigar infused with Kopi Luwak - the expensive coffee made with the poop of the Asian Palm Civet.

Let us know how that goes, Step. :rotfl

[pappy1264]

You guys are cracking me up! Well, woke to find Rocky had poop all over his legs, tail and belly! Obviously it was soft/smeared, but still poop, so it is coming out! He ate with gusto this morning (last meal last night, he didn't want much).

Adrianne is doing great, she is a great eater, pottier (is that a word?) lol Will spend the day on the gm/yogurt and then tomorrow, add in the hc, but dilute it initially. Got to get some fat into these babies, can feel both of their spines!

[MommaLove]

:Love_Icon YEAH for Poopy Pappy (and Rocky) :grin3

[SammysMom]

And the poop pendulum swings in the other direction... At least this one leads OUT!!!:grin

[pappy1264]

lol.....out is better then in!

[stepnstone]

Well, woke to find Rocky had poop all over his legs, tail and belly!

Do'in the poop dance...
:poop:banana:poop:banana:poop:banana:poop

Going to smoke that cigar now.
Friend gave me this small looking thing, called it a blunt.
What the hey, a cigar is a cigar... :smoken

[TubeDriver]

Do'in the poop dance...
:poop:banana:poop:banana:poop:banana:poop

Going to smoke that cigar now.
Friend gave me this small looking thing, called it a blunt.
What the hey, a cigar is a cigar... :smoken

:grin2


Poop makes us all happy!

[Fireweed]

:poop :fireworks :grouphug

How's he doing tonight?

[pappy1264]

So far, so good. Doesn't poop every feeding, but being on gm/yogurt does not have a lot 'in' it, so not overly concerned. He is not bloating, that is the important part. I am thinking I will do what I have done in the past, slowly adding in fv, until they are on a 50/50 of gm (w/yogurt)/fv. Just worked so well for all the others, just have to go extra slow with that belly of his, but I think he will do good on it.

[psychobird]

Rocky is so adorable!'

[pappy1264]

I'm so glad I followed my gut on him and didn't put him down. That leg injury was SO BAD, but god bless him, he is a fighter and then some!

[MommaLove]

Can't wait to see more pics of Little Rocky! :Love_Icon

[pappy1264]

Will get some today, he is doing well, as are Adrianne, Paulie and Mick.

[SammysMom]

Yeah "Team Rocky"!!!:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[honey]

is your little baby ok? i was having the same problem and yes i am new and i am continuing to learn after my little baby hopes bowls did not move on day number three....after i tried apple juice i finally gave her some prune juice...she was cramping and stayed up almost all night. So did i.... i cried and cried then after the plum juice she started having bowl movements again! I have had my little baby hope now for 7 wks i think she may have only been a few days old when she fell out of a tree...if that. Anyway i feel your pain. I am in no way giving advice wish i would have discovered this website on day one, but even this website has conflicting info. It takes constant dedication with these little critters and maybe i am not doing anything right but i am trying my heart out and bless you for trying 2 :)

[pappy1264]

Awww, one thing I have learned in the years I have been doing this, not everything will work in every case, so sometimes you just have to keep trying things to get it right. I wouldn't say it is so much conflicting, in that different things have worked in different situations, so you will get different advice based on what worked in their given situation. Rocky is doing better, thank you. His issues were most likely from anesthesia after having his foot amputated (and being dehydrated and lots of blood loss, he had a lot happen to his little body). He is a fighter and it sounds like your little Hope is too! Thank you for sticking with it and putting your heart into her and caring for her. Sometimes it is so easy, other times everything and the kitchen sink gets thrown your way, and you just have to keep working at it. But they are so worth every bit of it! Thank you!

[MJS]

JUST LURKIN' AND SMILIN'...:thumbsup :Love_Icon :thumbsup

[Toddy]

Just checking in to see how Rocky is doing....:grouphug