Still Dehydrated?

[schrislip00]

I am concerned with the baby's health. I think they look skinny even though everything seems to be going okay. They are gaining weight every day, eating and going to the bathroom fine, and are active for their ages (which I think is about 3 weeks since I have had them July 25th). Here are some more pictures and a video that I made of them, all from today. The one on the left has a scar running down her arm and by her ear and has lost some hair on that side. Their weights from today are 44 grams for Pepper (the one on the right) and 47 grams for Annie (the one on the left with the scar). That is up from 41 and 44 grams yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peeNGkcmSFw

[Nancy in New York]

OK I am going to ask some questions, please forgive me if I am repeating what you already answered.
What are you feeding them?
How often and how much?
There is a chart somewhere on the board with the guidelines of what squirrels should weigh, I
will look for that and post.
You have them on low heat half under the container, right?
I wouldn't be overly concerned as long as they stay hydrated, and are gaining weight and
not losing, that's the important thing.
If I find that chart I will post it here. :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

I just went back to look at some of your posts to get more insight to your squirrels.
On July 29th you estimated their age at 2 weeks old.

In this post, today you said you think they are around 3 weeks old.


The two baby squirrels that I found seem to be having dry patches of skin on their back. They don't have hair yet so I'm guessing they are about 2 weeks old. Is there anything I can do or should I just continue to wipe them with cotton balls after their feeding?

If in fact they are 4 weeks old, then they are quite underweight.
How old are they, then we can better determine if they are underweight or not.
They do look skinny, I asked questions above, let me know what you are feeding etc.
and that way we can better help you.

[Nancy in New York]

I found the post with suggested weights.
Rhapsody posted it in a thread, so I just copied it here. :grin
Healthy Baby Squirrel Weight -

Based on --Wild Mammal Babies 2nd Edition


Birth ---: between 15 & 25 grams

1 weeks: between 25 & 60 grams

2 weeks: between 60 & 70 grams

3 weeks: between 70 & 80 grams

4 weeks: between 80 & 120 grams

5 weeks: between 120 & 150 grams

6 weeks: between 150 & 250 grams

7-8 weeks: 250 grams and greater

*weight may vary depending how long the orphan baby squirrel has been away from mom and or food.

[schrislip00]

They are eating FV 20/50 every 4 hours. They have no problem eating 2 ml every feeding (sometimes 2.5 ml but never more than that). They are getting sugar water between some feedings (I notice that they don't eat as much and their belly is full if I give it between every feeding). I found them on July 25 and they were super tiny, pink, no hair, but I did not notice an umbilical stump. So this Thursday I will have had them exactly three weeks. Here is the photo of when I first found them and one today. I did not weigh them the first day so I do not know how much they weighed day one. But the last two days I have weighed them they have gained weight. No breathing issues and they have been warm except for once last night the one squirrel crawled over to the cool side of the box and she got cold. She has since been warmed and is eating fine. I put more blankets in the box and they have not strayed to the other side. They are peeing every time I stimulate them but they are not pooping every time. I have been keeping track of their BMs by writing them down. Annie has pooped two times today but Pepper only once.

[schrislip00]

I need to order some more supplies, should I order the Ultra Boost for them?

[schrislip00]

I am concerned with the baby's health. I think they look skinny even though everything seems to be going okay. They are gaining weight every day, eating and going to the bathroom fine, and are active for their ages (which I think is about 3 weeks since I have had them July 25th). Here are some more pictures and a video that I made of them, all from today. The one on the left has a scar running down her arm and by her ear and has lost some hair on that side. Their weights from today are 44 grams for Pepper (the one on the right) and 47 grams for Annie (the one on the left with the scar). That is up from 41 and 44 grams yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peeNGkcmSFw

Also, the day before their weights were 40 and 43, so they are gaining every day.

[Nancy in New York]

I need to order some more supplies, should I order the Ultra Boost for them?

I'm glad that you mentioned that yes, I totally LOVE ultra boost.
Also the formula that they should have been on was the 32/40 you would switch to the
20/50 after the eyes open. Some rehabbers don't take them off of the 32/40 though.
I would stop the hydration feeding. You can actually feed a little more than the 5-7% guidelines.
That is just a rough estimate, so you have a ballpark.
The important thing to keep in mind if you increase the formula, is to make sure that their tummies
do NOT get HARD and bloated. If they want more give it, but keep an eye on the tummies.
IF you should see bloat, stop everthing by mouth and get the bloat down. We will go over that if it happens.
You are doing great, and asking great questions.
I'm glad that you are such a good mom. :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Also, the day before their weights were 40 and 43, so they are gaining every day.

Yes I saw that, gaining daily is important, so that's excellent! :thumbsup

[schrislip00]

Thank you! Should I order a bag of 32/40 and another bag of 20/50 as well? I am definitely going to order the Ultra Boost. Tummies have been a little full, but not hard and overstuffed.

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you! Should I order a bag of 32/40 and another bag of 20/50 as well? I am definitely going to order the Ultra Boost. Tummies have been a little full, but not hard and overstuffed.

There are many members as I said that keep their babies on the 32/40 and never switch them over. You can definitely order 32/40 and ultra boost, personally I love that combination and use it all the time.
When they get older if you want you can switch them to the 20/50, but if mine are doing great, I never switch....I just keep giving what works. :thumbsup

[schrislip00]

Another good feeding and both babies had BM's. Hopefully we'll have a better day tomorrow and I'll get the additional formulas ordered. Off to bed.

Thanks for everything!

[Nancy in New York]

Another good feeding and both babies had BM's. Hopefully we'll have a better day tomorrow and I'll get the additional formulas ordered. Off to bed.

Thanks for everything!

You are doing fine.....as I said they could use a little meat on them, but the are gaining.
Wait until you get the Ultra Boost, you will have monsters.
I will go over how you use it in a pm.
As I also said, many keep their squirrels on the 32/40 mixture throughout.
I have done that myself, as has Jackie in Tampa who has raised 786 (:grin) squirrels.

[schrislip00]

Thanks so much. They both weighed 48 g this morning so they are up 1 g and 3 g!

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks so much. They both weighed 48 g this morning so they are up 1 g and 3 g!

Perfect....as I've said gain is always a huge plus!
Do you feed through the night too?

[schrislip00]

When I'm at home I stay up until 2:00 am and then feed them again around 7:00 am. When I work (I work night shift 6pm to 6am) my husband feeds them and then I feed them before I go to bed in the morning.

[schrislip00]

Just ordered some FV 32/40, Ultra Boost, and some more 20/50. Also some Miracle Nipples and some more syringes. Should be here in a couple days!

[Nancy in New York]

Just ordered some FV 32/40, Ultra Boost, and some more 20/50. Also some Miracle Nipples and some more syringes. Should be here in a couple days!

[/I]WOW you are really stocking up for those little ones~
What a good mama you are! :)

[schrislip00]

I'll let you know when it gets here so I can get some help with the new formula feeding schedule. Thanks!

[Unikorngrrl]

[/I]WOW you are really stocking up for those little ones~
What a good mama you are! :)

:thumbsup :goodpost

You should just be able to change over on the formula. It's the same 'brand' so there isn't going to be a huge difference. If you use the Ultraboost the major thing is mixing. For example:

1 teaspoon Ultraboost
3 teaspoons FV
8 teaspoons water

would be how you would mix. just an example and I still use teaspoon amounts with my littles, but yours are bigger. Tablespoon measures might be more suited for you!

[schrislip00]

Skin turgor test was better today. Anxious to get my new supplies so I can fatten them up.

The hair on the base of the tail of one of the squirrels seems to be rubbing off? Is this due to suckling? Maybe I should get some YUK?

Their hair is just not growing where their sunburns were. The other side of their bodies are great. Hopefully it will grow in. I want to release them, will they be okay in the winter? When they will be ready (16 weeks) it will be November! In Ohio that will be really cold. Could they be release-able at 12 weeks? That way they could be acclimated to the colder weather? If necessary I will keep them until spring.

I forgot to weigh them before feeding this morning, so I will do it before their next feeding. They are getting the watered down FV every three hours now to help with their dehydration.

Sorry about the quality of the picture. I can't get my iPhone to take good close-ups.

[farrelli]

It may take time to have the hair grow back. 12 weeks is extremely young for release, normally 13 weeks is the very earliest they would leave the nest, however, later babies like yours usually stay with mom for the winter. Looks like you'll have a long time to determine if the hair growth is sufficient to survive a winter without frostbite (and death).

[Unikorngrrl]

The hair loss could be from urine or formula. I can't really see it well. Is is raw? Neosporin is safe on them. How does their hydration look today?

FYI guys, I told her yesterday to add a part of water to the FV and feed more often for a day or 2 to increase fluid intake. Also to remove the rice buddy since she has a heating pad and add the NiNY suggested 'sponge in a jar'. These babies were pretty dehydrated and she was having trouble with them.

EDIT: Just noticed that you said hydration is better today. Great news!!! :thumbsup

[schrislip00]

The scabs are healed, just scarred. I used Neosporin on the scabs and they healed pretty well considering how bad they were. They pee every time I stimulate them and I don't smell urine in their container. If it is urine burns, is there something I can put on them? Like Desitin or something similar?

They are eating really well today and pooping every time I feed them. I hate going to work because I worry about them constantly. My husband gets tired of me calling him and asking how they are! Too bad I don't work somewhere where I could bring them with me. Thankfully my husband and I work different shifts so someone is always home with them.

[schrislip00]

Gained weight again. They're up to 50 and 53 grams. Skin test keeps getting better. They are pooping and peeing with EVERY feeding today. Thanks for all your help everyone. They'll be up to weight in no time.

Mommy squirrel has to go to work so Daddy squirrel will take over!

[Unikorngrrl]

They use a sulfa silvadene cream on stuff like that. It's prescription but I think the Neosporin will work just fine. The scarred areas will probably take a bit longer for hair to come in. Hopefully it will come in just fine, it usually does! :thumbsup Glad their hydration is so much better. By tomorrow you should be able to go back to regular strength formula!!

[schrislip00]

Their weights are down this morning. Granted I did not weigh them first thing in the morning yesterday.

What kind of sounds are normal for babies? They aren't gasping, wheezing, or clicking, they make sounds almost like purring when I pick them up.

[Unikorngrrl]

Their weights are down this morning. Granted I did not weigh them first thing in the morning yesterday.

What kind of sounds are normal for babies? They aren't gasping, wheezing, or clicking, they make sounds almost like purring when I pick them up.

Are they hydrated? If so mix the formula back normal. There are normal sounds that they make. Clicking would be with every breath whether you pick them up or not.

Oh and you will need to weigh them at approximately the same time each day!

[schrislip00]

They're definitely not clicking. It's kind of like a purr, like a cat makes when you pet them.

The hydration test is better but it's not perfect. I wouldn't compare it to my skin, but it's definitely not like it was. Can I dilute their formula every other feeding maybe? Or should I keep it diluted for another 24 hours?

[schrislip00]

How can you tell the difference between bloat and just a fuller tummy? I noticed my squirrels tummy was a little bigger before I fed her (no milk line) but her tummy wasn't hard and it didn't look overly swollen. Just a little fuller. They are pooping and peeing really well and eating good too. Hydration test seems better too.

Maybe I'm just being overly worried?

[Nancy in New York]

How can you tell the difference between bloat and just a fuller tummy? I noticed my squirrels tummy was a little bigger before I fed her (no milk line) but her tummy wasn't hard and it didn't look overly swollen. Just a little fuller. They are pooping and peeing really well and eating good too. Hydration test seems better too.

Maybe I'm just being overly worried?

A bloated tummy would be firm/hardish.
A full tummy would feel like a balloon.
Does that make sense?

[schrislip00]

Yes, that makes sense. When I lightly poke their tummy it doesn't feel hard at all. It was just a little rounded.

[Nancy in New York]

Yes, that makes sense. When I lightly poke their tummy it doesn't feel hard at all. It was just a little rounded.

Perfect!!!!!!!
IF you start feeling it HARD, stop everything by mouth.
Give them a couple drops of gas x.
Soak the lower half in warm water, lightly pushing on their
tummies downwards. Make sure to dry them off really well.
We will give you more details IF that happens, but you are so
diligent, I doubt it will.
But then again, it's happened even
to the best.
Don't ever be afraid to ask questions, anytime.
It may not get answered immediately, but ask away, we will
get to it!:thumbsup:Love_Icon

[Unikorngrrl]

Don't forget, you have my number too!! Also, if you want to do every other feeding with dilute formula, I don't see why it would hurt anything. Just make sure they're eating when the milk line is gone! Everything seems good from what I'm reading :thumbsup

[schrislip00]

Thank you! Weight is back up today when I weighed them before their first feeding of the day. Still waiting on supplies to get here from Squirrels and More. USPS Priority 2-day must mean 3 days.:sanp3

[schrislip00]

Got my supplies! The Miracle Nipple and new syringes are great. Feeding is so much easier. And the girls are getting better at it. They can pretty much suck the formula out of the nipple at their pace. They seem to like the Ultra Boost and FV 32/40.

Happy squirrels!

[Scooterzmom]

Adorable little princesses! Toatlly GORGEOUS! :Love-Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Unikorngrrl]

They look great schris!! Super cute!!

[Nancy in New York]

Please forgive me no time to reread, but
are you doing a slow transition to the Fox Valley and
Ultra Boost?
Ideally, we do 3/4 of the formula they were on to 1/4 FV UB. Do this for
about 4-5 feedings.
Then do 1/2 formula they were on and 1/2 Fox Valley with UB formula for another 4-5 feedings.
Then do 1/4 formula they were on and 3/4 Fox Valley with UB for another 4-5 feedings.
Then go to ALL Fox Valley and Ultra Boost.

Transitioning will help the tummies get used to the new formula,
without diarrhea or constipation.:thumbsup

They are ADORABLE! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[schrislip00]

Well, I didn't do a transition from the old formula to the new. Shoot. What should I do now? I've already given them several feedings of the FV 3240 and ultra boost. They are eating the heck out of it. I have been feeding every four hours and watching for the milk line. But sometimes it's really hard to tell the milk line. Poops and pee are okay. The skin turgor test is great. I think that before they were just really skinny and their skin was really saggy. They have really started to fill out. And their weight is up again today.

[farrelli]

Well, if they've been transitioned for awhile and it didn't cause bad poops or no poops, you should be fine. It's all about the poop.

[schrislip00]

Well, Annie has pooped four times today but Pepper only two. But the poops are well formed. I am having trouble telling the milk line this last feeding and I think their tummies look a little full, so I am giving this feeding a little more time in between. I would hate to overfeed them and cause bloat. They have eaten REALLY good today.

[Nancy in New York]

I really do forget what your other formula was.
BUT I would still transition, just the way I recommended.
When you feed them the next time, just do it according to the
way I suggested in the other post.
IF you don't have anymore of their other formula, try diluting the
FV and UB a ratio of 1 part FV/UB to 3 parts water......try that for about
12 hours, just to get their tummies used to the new formula.
What ratio of Ultra Boost are you using to the FV?

We are trying to avoid, bloat (which you would see the first day or two), diarrhea or constipation which you
most likely wouldn't see until about the 2nd or 3rd day.

edit:

I just saw your new post, Fox Valley stays in their system longer, so you may want to go
a little while longer between feedings once you are on straight FV.

[Anne]

And to answer another question you asked--babies and mama purr to each other as a form of communication and love---:)

[schrislip00]

The girls are both up to 61 grams each. Bathroom business is good on all fronts. Going longer between feedings due to the amount that they eat each time and the milk line. Everything's going really good.

They are pooping and peeing every time I stimulate but I notice that they seem to be going in their bin as well. Is this normal since they're getting older? I know at some point they start going on their own.

[schrislip00]

And to answer another question you asked--babies and mama purr to each other as a form of communication and love---:)

I know you're not supposed to talk to them since they are being released and want them to be wild, but I can't help it! I just can't help but pet their little heads and tell them good job when they eat and poop and pee. Who knew that I would get so excited about those things?

I wish I could purr back to them! LOL! :Love_Icon

[Unikorngrrl]

Talk to them, hold them and love them all you want and all they'll take. It's good for them. The wild will kick in all on it's own!!!!! Glad to hear they're doing well!!! :thumbsup

[schrislip00]

They're doing great. Thanks to you guys! I am SO grateful for everyone's help. You guys are angels!

[Unikorngrrl]

I kiss mine to pieces :grin2:grin2:grin2