HELP: baby with a bloody eye

[astra]

Posting this for Iwonka.

She is picking up to babies.

One has bloody nose.

The other baby has eyes closed, but there is blood in the eyes (apparently, coming out or caked around - don't know details yet).

What is the course of action:

1. First, of course, the blood should be washed off gently, Right?
2. Then, the bloody eye baby needs to be on ABs, right?

WHAT ELSE?

What are the potential consequences of the closed eyes bleeding?
And how can these be prevented or alleviated ?

What should we do with the bloody eyes?

There are no pics yet.

This is urgent, as Iwonka is on her way to pick up babies and need to know what to do.

:thankyou

[SammysMom]

I am no expert, but I would think that wiping them with a warm cloth would be the way to start. :grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

I'm just wondering too if bloody eyes means head trauma. IF so do not put on heat.

Hoenstly I have never heard of this, but we really should wait and see what is going on before we all speculate like the last time.
Wonder if there is just blood around nose but appears to be around the eyes as well.....I honestly think we need to wait until iwonka sees them and can better explain. IF these details are being relayed to her by the finder, they could be wrong.

[SammysMom]

Sinuses and eyes are connected so you may be VERY right Nancy. Also need to see how old and how close to eyes opening they are.

[astra]

ok Iwonka is walking into the house as I type.

Experts please stand by - I will relay what she sees as soon as she calls me back:thankyou

[pappy1264]

Warm cotton balls squeezed out to gently clean the eyes and nose. I would not do heat as they both sound suspicious of possible head trauma from a fall. Could just be blood vessel broke behind the eyes, should be ok, provided they don't continue to bleed out (but keep close eye for sign of head trauma). I would clean them up, and try to very slowly hydrate even before starting any ab's (unless there is thought this is someone an injury from another animal?) Loads of prayers going out.

[astra]

THank you, pappy.

Just thought about abs because there have been squirrels with puss in eyes recently here, and thought that a bleeding eye can get infected. Yes? No?

[farrelli]

Could they have gotten into rat poison and are hemorrhaging? If so, vitamin K1 is the way to go. I don't know if it's legal over the counter in Canada, but here are some sources of it:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=11

[pappy1264]

Kind of depends what the blood is from. Not necessarily. A fall can cause blood vessels behind the eye to open (in a person, you would see the blood in the white of the eye). It could be that, but it could be something more serious, as well. I am sure others will chime in, but if I had them here, I would hold off on ab's for now, work on trying to clean them up, get them warm and slowly hydrated and then reassess. You can certainly always add ab's in. Does anyone know any history on them? You're welcome.

[astra]

ok, here is a pic:

[Nancy in New York]

Spikey fur, needs hydration.
I see blood in the whites, and it looks like there is blood in the iris, almost like a reddish hue in the brown eyes.
Head trauma most likely, so no heat, just maintain at normal temperature.

[astra]

Spikey fur, needs hydration.
I see blood in the whites, and it looks like there is blood in the iris, almost like a reddish hue in the brown eyes.
Head trauma most likely, so no heat, just maintain at normal temperature.
does he need prednizone for head trauma?

Is there anything that could be done about this bleeding, or will it heal on its own and clear up as the baby gets better?

any other meds?

[pappy1264]

Yes, looks like some broken blood vessels. Fluids, no heat. Go slowly. Provided there is no brain issues, the eyes should heal ok. Make sure to clean the nostrils good, too. Listen for noise when breathing, may need a humidifier (cool mist) to help her breathing, as well. Poor little bug, prayers going out. I would hold off on pred, as it can make bleeding more. Get fluids in, and go from there, watch for signs of head trauma after fully hydrated.

[astra]

he also seems to have a broken or sprained paw.
Could he be given metacam for pain?

[pappy1264]

Not until he is fully hydrated (and also are sure there are no head 'issues' so to speak).

[SammysMom]

Oh that poor little bub...lots of prayers coming his way...:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[astra]

Not until he is fully hydrated (and also are sure there are no head 'issues' so to speak).
so then maybe ibuprofen instead of metacam?

I don't remember well how all these drugs interact.

[psychobird]

I would give metacam once he's hydrated
Help keep swelling down in the brain and make him more comfortable
I always have a hard time deciding on heat or not with babes
Sometimes they just need it
Will have to listen to your gut on that
Do you have a vet that can check his eyes?

[psychobird]

Wouldn't worry about the sprained wrist at this point
Keep him in something that he can't climb and is on the small side
bed rest
Hydration, nutritional support and metcam seem to be the most critical right now
Reasses in the morning

[psychobird]

I'm thinking head trauma also

[psychobird]

Good luck with him, I'm up way past my bedtime, loaded with baby Birds so must get up at the crack of dawn
Going to bed now
Hope he responds well

[astra]

I would give metacam once he's hydrated
Help keep swelling down in the brain and make him more comfortable
I always have a hard time deciding on heat or not with babes
Sometimes they just need it
Will have to listen to your gut on that
Do you have a vet that can check his eyes?
thank you, psychobird.
I kind of doubt that there is a vet who can check eyes :thinking

[astra]

thank you each and everyone who responded, offered suggestions and prayers.
Iwonka has the babies now and, most likely, will post for more suggestions or updates.
:thankyou ALL:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you astra for rounding up the help for her.
Prayers being said for this little one, and for iwonka.
:Love_Icon

[pappy1264]

Sorry I had to log off last night, had to get up early today. How are the little ones today?

[Jackie in Tampa]

astra, iwonka...
if using prednisone {a steroid} you can also use tramadol, but you cannot use an NSAID {metacam, Ibuprofen}
==============================
if using metacam {NSAID} you can also use tramadol as a second pain aid..

tramadol is a synthetic narcotic and has absolutely no value other than pain aid... it works on the psych, not the actual pain site.

[newsquirrelmommy]

Sending prayers:Love_Icon :grouphug

[psychobird]

How's babies??

[iwonka]

Thank you squirrel Angels! :grouphug
Thank you Astra!! :grouphug

Quick update:

They do not have names yet ... They were found by a police officer then maybe it will inspire me.

One of the two brothers is perfectly fine.
Both were rehydrated and started formula goat milk at night / morning.
The sick baby received the first dose of prenizone last night but as you can see from the pictures the left side of his face swelled anyway :(
I gave him tramadol this morning.

One of the lower teeth is broken. He doesn't have upper teeth yet.
His right paw hurts him, but he use it to wash his face.


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[Skul]

Little guy took a hard bonk to the head, for sure.
I just hope it didn't mess up the growth pattern of the broken tooth.

[Jackie in Tampa]

cute little buttons!
so happy you have them....
brothers are my favorites!!!! yum yum!!!
surely they'll have policeman names...:D

[iwonka]

He starts to sniff .. for now it's just a little... droplets of a clear liquid in the nose ...
Should I give him Bactrim or wait? :thinking

[Pip]

:grouphug :Love_Icon :Love_Icon Get well soon dear baby! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :grouphug
:thankyou Iwonka :Love_Icon

[Skul]

He starts to sniff .. for now it's just a little... droplets of a clear liquid in the nose ...
Should I give him Bactrim or wait? :thinking
I'd do that as a precaution.
Better now than wait and find out when too late.
When JIT wanders back, I wonder if she might suggest Baytril.

[squirrelfriend]

Aw, poor little concussed baby. Is he a wobbly? Hoping for a speedy recovery. Hang in there little one!

[Pip]

Maybe a bit of time with the humidifier would help? :thinking

[iwonka]

I'd do that as a precaution.
Better now than wait and find out when too late.
When JIT wanders back, I wonder if she might suggest Baytril.

He is very young and Bactrim is much gentler on the body than Baytril.



Is he a wobbly?

No, he is not.

[TubeDriver]

Hope he gets better soon!

[skippy]

Poor Babies.

Regarding the eye. I've had a few squirrels and a dog with eye trauma. That last picture looks like the bloody fluid is pooling in the eye. I hope it's not a detached retina. Easy enough with blunt trauma.
Damage to the drainage system in the eye can cause the ocular fluid to back up. If you could get him to a veterinarian ASAP that can check the eye and the pressures of the eye if needed. I'd call around first because not all vets have the tool to check eye pressures, but if they do they can give you medication to keep the pressures where they need to be so they retina doesn't detach while the fluid is reabsorbed and the injury is healed.
You cannot put prednisone drops in the eye if the cornea is scratched because it will cause ulceration, so he should be evaluated before using any topical eye medication.
I have a veterinarian that specializes in animal eye and allergy treatment. Cataracts etc.
I'll cross my fingers you can have him seen by someone who can give you the eye medications needed to save his sight.
:Love_Icon

[psychobird]

That eye does need some professional attention
Bactrim is great

[TubeDriver]

:(

[Chickenlegs]

He such a cute little pup. Since veterinary help may be scarce, does anybody know a vet willing to advise?

[skippy]

I'm not sure since this baby is in Canada.
UC Davis in Davis, California may have a connection to a qualified veterinarian for you up there.
www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/small_animal/‎

[SQUIRRELSAREME]

Prayers for this little one :grouphug

[skippy]

UC Davis Veterinary Hospital
Small Animal Clinic
(530)-752-1393

[TubeDriver]

Any updates on how is doing today?

[iwonka]

Columbo has a very good appetite and is very happy when he sees me. :thumbsup
Swelling of the face has almost disappeared.


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This is Columbo brother, Kojack :D

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[SammysMom]

OMG...Columbo and Kojak are so CUTE!!! I love the names..perfect for those little guys! :Welcome boys!!!:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

OMG you sure did wonders with this little one. He looks 100% better already.:bowdown

[CritterMom]

You named the guy with the bad eye Columbo - played by Peter Falk who was quite famous for having a glass eye? OMG! I'm dying here!!! He is so CUTE!

[pappy1264]

Wow, he looks so great already! And love those names!!! (He needs an overcoat! lol)

[Scooterzmom]

Oh my Iwonka! They look great already! Well done :bowdown

Now lemme guess who came up with those names... Pip by chance? :rolf :rolf :rolf

[TubeDriver]

:) :)

[Pip]

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

hell ya iwonka!!!!! hoot hoot!!!!:bowdown ty

[iwonka]

Columbo is doing great ! 
His left eye is different than the right one but he blinks so I presume he has vision.
His paw is well also.
Appetite is more than good :D

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[TubeDriver]

:alright.gif :wott



So glad to hear he is doing better. You can do a basic vision test with your hands to see if/how he reacts. The eye does look different so he may not have great vision from that eye.

[farrelli]

Yea, that eye looks flat, so I would suspect that his vision is severely compromised. Maybe just light and dark. When the eye looses its proper geometry, it just can't function as designed. Is it flat?

[psychobird]

Does his pupil respond to light?

[psychobird]

Does his pupil look the same size as the normal eye?

[SammysMom]

Oh my heavens he's a fuzzy boy like Max!!! What a little doll!!!:Love_Icon

[iwonka]

Yea, that eye looks flat, so I would suspect that his vision is severely compromised. Maybe just light and dark. When the eye looses its proper geometry, it just can't function as designed. Is it flat?

no.. it isn't flat. It just look smaller or like was pushed inside and it shows only the he tip of the eye.. :dono



Does his pupil respond to light?

I didn't check... how do you do this?

[farrelli]

Still, if the geometry is changed, it can easily ruin vision. Even just breaking an orbital bone, even if it heals properly, just being off a few microns can really effect your vision.

For the light test, just take a flashlight or penlight and just shine it in his eye and see if the pupil contracts. And before you do that, compare them and see if the bad eye has any significant size difference from the other in just normal lighting.

[iwonka]

The light test.. I don't know :dono .. It's too small.. I don't see it.
His right eye responds correctly.

[TubeDriver]

The light test.. I don't know :dono .. It's too small.. I don't see it.
His right eye responds correctly.


If you can't see the pupil dilate then it probably is not working correctly. Does he respond if you move your hand towards the eye? Hold a treat on the left side and see if he sees it? Not too close or he will smell it.

[iwonka]

If you can't see the pupil dilate then it probably is not working correctly. Does he respond if you move your hand towards the eye? Hold a treat on the left side and see if he sees it? Not too close or he will smell it.

It's not that I don't see the pupil dilate...I don't see it at all... I don't see it normal either.. :dono :thinking

Yes, he responds to the movement of my finger. I realy have impression he sees.

[farrelli]

Unless the retina was damaged, he can probably see light and motion, but if the eye isn't the perfect shape (and therefore seated correctly) his vision would range from slightly blurry to wholly out of focus forms from which he could infer motion, but not much else. Given the amount of alteration in the seating, I'd wager he's got more toward the horrible end of the spectrum. (Criminy, you live in Montreal! You should know all about eye injuries as they're relatively common in hockey. :D That's how I know about them. PJ Stock still sees double because of his orbital bone injury, and his damage was relatively minor.)

[farrelli]

The light test.. I don't know :dono .. It's too small.. I don't see it.
His right eye responds correctly.

I was thinking about this post. Do you mean to say that you saw the pupil in his good eye (and that it responded correctly), BUT that you couldn't see the pupil in his bad eye? This may indicate that the pupil is "blown" (expanded to its full extent) thereby minimizing the iris. You could just be seeing one big pupil. If that is the case, it would tend to indicate that he's not perceiving light in that eye (or has neuro damage).

[iwonka]

I was thinking about this post. Do you mean to say that you saw the pupil in his good eye (and that it responded correctly), BUT that you couldn't see the pupil in his bad eye?

Exactly..
But his eye is really small.. I will check again now using a magnifying glass and my boyfriend help.

[skippy]

I'm happy Columbo is alive but sad to see his eye in this shape.
With those first photos' his eye looked filled with bloody fluid.

This has been my experience with a similar situation:
I have a family member who was hit in the eye with a paint ball at point blank range. He sustained an instant cataract from the impact, the lens was removed and the damaged drainage system we have in our eyes for the ocular fluid which keeps it plump was replaced with an implant.

Our eyes are so precious and delicate.

The retina will detach if the ocular fluid and pressures aren't regulated properly. It's like a balloon without air in it, the eye becomes floppy and the retina peels off. Our pupils don't get larger and smaller with light. The iris, the colored part of the eye, is muscle tissue that actually is moving to cover the pupil.

That part of his eye was also damaged so his eye is no longer a beautiful blue because the iris was torn and does not have the ability to stay in place. After 8 surgeries, to save the eye, it now has a drainage system surgically implanted in the eye to keep the ocular fluid circulating and the eye pressures at normal range. (Glaucoma) I've seen a deflated human eye from extremely low ocular pressures and can see this very similar look in the photos you posted. :shakehead

This little squirrel looks like he may have had a hard knock to that eye and done some internal damage. I know that in my family member's case, since the iris doesn't work anymore when light hits the eye, he has a lot of discomfort from bright light. His eye is black. He has to where very dark sunglasses when he's outside and sometimes in bright indoor light.

Can you take him to be seen by a veterinarian?
If this is the case with your little one, it may be more humane to have his eye stitched shut or removed and possibly consider him a NR. Of course only a qualified veterinarian could give you that information.

My heart is with this little guy. Thanks for your dedication and hard work caring for him. :Love_Icon

[iwonka]

Thank you for sharing this... :grouphug

I have already seen squirrels with one blind eye ... I think it is very possible that he adapts to live with reduced vision.

Do you mean that Columbo will suffer if his eye is left as it is?

I'll try to find a vet who will see it.

[SammysMom]

I am 85% blind in one eye myself and can attest to the fact that you can adjust to it. I was born with the condition. (Due to toxoplasmosis (sp?) most likely. The illness caused by pregnant woman changing the cat box. So when the doc says "don't do it while pregnant", DON'T!). The issue that I would see is that depth perception is the biggest problem. Squirrels are so dependent upon theirs that I would suggest at least keeping him long enough for him to learn to compensate for that lack. I can judge depth, just not as well as others with 2 eyes.
It takes me a lot longer to park and I am often far away from the car in front of me...lol
Jumping branch to branch is what scares me for him though. Very tricky indeed! Good luck and I must say he looks terrific!:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[skippy]

Yes, we do learn how to adjust and compensate with reduced or no vision in one eye. The concern I had for Columbo was that he does not appear from the photo to have a cataract and the eye is not milky white like you sometimes see in a blind eye. If the iris is damaged and cannot close around the pupil in day light, he would have to endure the discomfort from the bright glare on one side. A veterinarian that specializes in the eye could see into the eye with their instruments and assess the condition of the structures inside, then you would know if he is perceiving light and how much. If the eye is not functioning at all, then he would still have depth perception issues and would most likely learn to compensate, but if he is blinded by the intensity of light because his iris isn't shutting down to control the amount of light going in than it may be something that needs to taken into consideration before releasing him.
Just my thoughts..............
Decisions, Decisions.
Best of luck and lots of :Love_Icon being sent your way.

[TubeDriver]

Hope Kojack is doing all right? Great job taking care of these little fellows.

[MollyBear361]

hows he doing?