Breathing Problems

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Hello to everyone, I am a first time "caller" to TSB but a long time "listener". I just want to start by saying that the info that is provided on this site has proven to be very helpful over the past six years!

I have a female grey squirrel that is about six years old. She has recently started to display signs of labored breathing even when resting. She isn't panting or anything but you can tell by watching her that her breaths are very "deep". Also, along with this symptom has been some others that come and go. First she can get "milky" eyes from time to time; even to the point that her eyelids sometimes stick when she first wakes up. In addition to that she makes a squeaky noise when breathing...almost like a whistle. I think she needs to blow her nose! All joking aside, this has really started to bother me so I did some research and have gotten some baytril for her. She's had that the last three days but it seems there has been no improvement. She seems the worst when she first wakes up but the heavy breathing never really goes away now. She has had the nose and eye thing off and on for about a year but I had just chalked it up to allergies. I am taking her to a vet tomorrow but would like to know what everyone's thoughts are.

[CrazySquirrelLady]

Hello fellow Kentuckian. Glad to see you posting.

poor little squirrel. I am glad you are going to the vets. Keep us posted, let me know if I can help.

[farrelli]

Can you please tell us her diet? White tears are a sign of pain and/or stress. We often see lethargy and pain with squirrels who have bone disease caused by a poor diet and lack of calcium. If it's that, immediate treatment is key.

[stepnstone]

As has been stated "milky eyes" are what you see in a squirrel's tears for reasons stated.
Diet is often the key but the first thing that comes to my mind from what you describe is condition of teeth.
If they have not been kept filed down normally by chewing they will grow too long, cause sores in the mouth
and even grow to punture the roof of mouth, sinuses, etc. It's a serious condition which would require
trimming the teeth.
Please list the diet you feed and, explain what you see with the length of the teeth.
Posting a picture would be most helpful with evaluations.

Please know your vet and the laws in your State regarding having a squirrel.
If it is an illigal State the law requires to confiscate and euthanize.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Typically she has a bowl that we keep full of rat food. We also give her carrots, celery, periodically watermelon, tomatoes, strawberries, slices of apples and pears. We do give her nuts on a daily basis too. She loves hazelnuts; those are her favorite. We also give her walnuts, pecans and pumpkin seeds. The one thing that she absolutely loves that I realize is a BIG no, no is corn on the cob.

From reading other posts on here I take it that I have probably been giving her too many nuts/foods low in calcium high in phosphorous. Last night I made a run to the store and got turnips, kale, spinach, mustard greens and collard greens. Of course she turned her nose up at all of that so far. I also ordered some of Henry's Healthy Rodent Blocks.

If this was MBD would it be odd for it to just now show up? Her diet hasn't really changed much over the last six years with the exception of goodies from our garden during the growing season.

Her living quarters consists of a big Ferret Nation cage. She sleeps either in a hammock or a shoe box that I put old clothing in. I give her a new box every month or so. She goes in phases as to where she sleeps. Often times I'll let her sleep with me and she'll curl up in a ball and lay right between my arm and body. My wife just loves that! ha ha ha.

All input is much appreciated, my concern is getting her better.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Her teeth have been routinely taken care of. I have them regularly trimmed. So there's no issue with any overgrowth or with the teeth growing into the roof of the mouth and such.

[farrelli]

What do you mean by "rat food"? Got a specific brand? If you mean rodent blocks, it's probably not MBD, but if it is like gerbil food or something, it probably is MDB. They need calcium and vitamin D from their diet.

As to why it would show up now, perhaps it's because calcium absorption becomes compromised with age.

If you haven't been feeding rodent blocks, I would strongly urge you to begin the following protocol IMMEDIATELY.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34495

[kentuckysquirrel777]

I know I should've put this all in one post. I apologize but her milky eyes typically only show up when I have the windows open or take her outside to play. That's why I just thought they were allergy related.

One other quick question; if I were to give her a dose of calcium once I get home, what would be the recommended dose? I have some adult calcium capsules I could open, I also have reptile calcium powder I used to sprinkle on her food. She also periodically chews on the various calcium "chews" I have attached on the cage.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

farrelli, thanks for the info! I will do that right when I get home!

[kentuckysquirrel777]

The food she gets is Supreme Pet Foods Reggie Rat Food. Of course she picks out what she likes and leaves the rest.

[farrelli]

Yes, that's not a good squirrel diet. I would begin the MBD treatment immediately. Leave work early if you can. MBD shows symptoms at the very end stage and quick action is needed to save a life.

Also, you should read up on the proper diet at the thread below and begin following it immediately. I'm glad that you've already ordered HHBs. Two for a gray each day, three for a fox. Keep them in the fridge or freezer.

Healthy diet link:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39275

[TubeDriver]

Hope she gets better. There is a link for MDB that was posted above:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34495



basically you need to crush up a single tums, mix with fruit juice and feed the entire mixture to your squirrel throughout the day. Start this immediately.


Read the link above and follow through with treatment. It will take a while to get here healthy.

Not an expert, but I don't think you have anything to lose by starting this treatment.

[farrelli]

Oh, and using human calcium is fine, but not if it has D in it. You could probably get away with one dose, but human levels of D are too high for squirrels, especially over time.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Okay, I ran home and divided up a tums six ways. 600 mg of calcium carbonate per one tums...I divided it into six somewhat equal pieces. I took one piece and mashed it up real finely and put it into a chapstick top and put a little water in it to mix into a solution. I used a syringe to administer it to the little girl; although she was unhappy.

She did seem to perk up after about fifteen minutes but it also looked like the milky substance came back in her eyes at that time too. When I left she was looking for nuts but of course I've taken those away.

One quick question; I bought 600 mg calcium tablets from Walgreens without Vitamin D. They were a little tricky to smash up because of the gelatin coating on them; that's why I used the Tums. Is it okay to use the Tums every time or should I just make do with the other.

Thanks again for the help, it is much appreciated!

[farrelli]

Tums is fine, she may even like to eat it straight if you pick the right flavor. Cherry is popular.

[SammysMom]

Mint is NOT a favorite. It might be part of why she fights it. Most squirrels do not like mint.:Love_Icon

[farrelli]

Btw, how are you dosing your Baytril? What does this squirrel weigh?

[kentuckysquirrel777]

She weighs just under a pound I believe. The Baytril is .1 ml once a day. This will be her third day. I'll try to post a pic.

This is her a while back, she really doesn't look much different now:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=322227885304&l=1768c41f28

Here's some other pics to enjoy:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.247367285304.282407.548750304&type=1&l=8fd27a0333

Here's one I just took:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152820629970305&l=ac7864c914

Hopefully those links worked.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Took the little girl to the vet back when this was originally going on. They continued with Baytril for five days at .15 ml. They also gave a shot of benadryl. I continued with the calcium treatment up to today...although I've cut back a bit from the "emergency" dose. And I've given her .5 ml of children's benadryl as needed. However, today she started into a sneezing fit and has been acting all congested most of the day. The benadryl did not help at all. I'm wondering if it's possible the antibiotics weren't continued long enough or weren't strong enough? With the benadryl not doing anything today; this leads me to believe that this was a type of respiratory infection.

[Unikorngrrl]

Give them a minute to get to you, there is a lot going on in the squirrel world right now!! I'd help but I only offer what I know and I don't know here!! Good Luck, I'm so sorry she isn't feeling well!!:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Took the little girl to the vet back when this was originally going on. They continued with Baytril for five days at .15 ml. They also gave a shot of benadryl. I continued with the calcium treatment up to today...although I've cut back a bit from the "emergency" dose. And I've given her .5 ml of children's benadryl as needed. However, today she started into a sneezing fit and has been acting all congested most of the day. The benadryl did not help at all. I'm wondering if it's possible the antibiotics weren't continued long enough or weren't strong enough? With the benadryl not doing anything today; this leads me to believe that this was a type of respiratory infection.


Usually when an antibiotic is used you should see some improvement within the first 48 hours or they will switch it.
Well that's what my vet does if no signs of improvement.
Did you see improvement with her sneezing?

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Yes, there was improvement. But what was the cause? Every thing I see on here suggests calcium is the end all problem. But I don't think that is it. So I've used antibiotics, calcium and Benadryl...which worked? I've continued the calcium so count that out. The Benadryl doesn't seem to be working now so nix that. That leaves the antibiotic...but she's sneezing, sounds congested and she keeps rubbing her face. Oh, and she gets milky eyes which someone on here said were tears and were a sign of pain. To put it simply I would like some answers not guesses...she doesn't have time for opinions or guesses. For instance, the milky eyes, does anyone KNOW what that is a sign of? They literally get a thick milky substance that comes on quickly and then can go away just as quickly. Also, no teeth problems, that has been checked and the vet looked at the back of her mouth as well. I just want to get her better...soon. I've also switched her over to the diet suggested on here too...seems that wasn't an issue either.

[farrelli]

White tears are a sign of pain or stress. If it was calcium deficiency, that takes quite a long time of corrected diet and additional calcium to correct. If it is an infection, the ABs will help, though you may have to change them if this isn;t working. And if the vet saw no odontoma or other dental problems, I don;t know what to say. You've covered the usual bases.

Please describe the improvement and continued issues.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Well, she was doing good for about four or five days since we stopped the antibiotic. Now she's back to sneezing, rubbing her face and eyes, milky eyes and sounding congested. I just gave her some Benadryl and a dose of calcium. She hates the Benadryl but seems to like the tums when given in a syringe. Her sneezing makes me think allergies because its the type we get when you just can't stop...I know I have them now because of my own allergies. Anyway she just ran back to my bed and got under the covers ha ha ha!! She does that from time to time. I've also scrubbed her cage and have taken out her sleeping hammock in the fear something in it was sparking this. The milky eyes literally comes from her eyelids all the way around...it thickens and then just goes away. Will be calling the vet tomorrow to see about starting on more antibiotics, a higher dosage or perhaps a different one. The vet did get to see the milky eyes and was sort of shocked...

[farrelli]

Yes, I think a new antibiotic might be a good idea. What was she on this time? If Baytril, perhaps transition to SMZ-TMP, which is slower acting and a longer treatment course but a broader spectrum (kills more types of bugs).

[farrelli]

Btw, are you out of the old antibiotics or did you just stop giving them because the recommended course was over, and how long was it?

[Unikorngrrl]

I'm keeping up and thinking about both of you! Sorry I don't have anything to add! :grouphug

[flyer girl]

Good luck hope this kid gets well soon..:grouphug

[kentuckysquirrel777]

She was on Baytril and we stopped because we did the days the vet had told us...I went one more day just as an extra precaution. It was about eight days total.

[kastillo]

Does anyone else think this might be an odontoma??

The nasal/eye symtoms??

I would think she would need an x ray to rule it out.

I'm trying to find a link to explain odontoma..... gimmie a min

[kastillo]

Here's one site with an explanation, but there are others, too.
http://squirrelrefuge.org/squirrel_refuge_web_site_046.htm

[farrelli]

I was wondering about that too. I thought x-rays had been done, but I looked back and now I think they weren't. All these threads blend together anymore. This board is so busy lately!

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Wow, that does sound like it might be the cause. Though, after researching it for a good two hours, I sure hope not! The vet has given us some stronger antibiotics and wants us to use them for a longer period of time. I'm not sure on the particulars. I will post them once my wife, Jen, brings home the instructions.

If that doesn't seem to knock this out then I will return for some x-rays. I see that one squirrel, Scarlet, had some success with surgery. I just hope that isn't the issue but the symptoms do seem to fit. The last time I was at the vet, they looked all around in her mouth so I don't know if they would spot it visually without an x-ray or not.

Thanks for the input. This forum is definitely a great place in such circumstances!

[kentuckysquirrel777]

It is baytril again (Baytril Suspension 22mg/ml). Two doses per day of .15 ml for fourteen days.

[Unikorngrrl]

It is baytril again (Baytril Suspension 22mg/ml). Two doses per day of .15 ml for fourteen days.

Still supporting you from a distance!! Glad you're feeling better about things and moving in the right direction!! We're behind you 110% :grouphug

[farrelli]

So, given that it's Baytril again, is the dose stronger?

[kentuckysquirrel777]

It's twice a day now, it was only once a day. I just gave her tonight's dose. The little girl sure likes to fight...ha ha ha. I typically let her out to play in a room all by herself and she hid from me tonight! Quick question can I give her the calcium and antibiotic together or will the calcium impact the absorption of the antibiotic? Man that tooth scenario really has me worried...I am hoping its not that!

[farrelli]

I think that the combination should be fine, but I'd separate them if possible. This should be easy if you have calcium powder which can be sprinkled on food and is tasteless.

Here's what I've found about the combo which makes me think it's safe:


Fluoroquinolones are a type of antibiotic used to treat bacterial infections in various parts of the body, such as the urinary tract, bone and joint infections, prostate, ear, some sexually transmitted diseases and bronchitis. Generic fluoroquinolones include ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin, moxifloxacin, norfloxacin and enoxacin. Prescription information from Drugs.com states that fluoroquinolones should be taken with a full glass of water; enoxacin and norfloxacin are best taken on an empty stomach; and ciprofloxacin may be taken with a meal containing dairy products or calcium-fortified juices, but not with dairy products alone.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/539026-does-calcium-affect-antibiotics/#ixzz2TiOg0S7g

[skippy]

Hi there.
Just reading a bit before turning in for the night and saw your thread.
I haven't read all of it but wanted to welcome you to TSB. I hope a resolution to the problem comes quickly for you.
Just wanted to say that Baytril tastes terrible. If you can offer something with it that would help. A "chaser" if you will.
If you are capable of using needles, such as you would with a diabetic and insulin, you can give in IM. Not sure which one would cause more running and hiding from you though.
Best of luck. Will be following your progress. :)

[flyer girl]

I sure do hope the antibiotics work this time..:grouphug

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Well, after doing much research on Odontoma I became convinced that this was what I was dealing with. Took Wilson to the vet on Friday and it was confirmed that this is indeed what we are dealing with. Surgery will be on Thursday. Anyone have any advice as to what to feed the little critter once surgery is over? Both top teeth (incisors) will be removed. Oh, the milky eyes is the key sign to this. I know I did that emergency calcium deal for about a month. If this has been it the whole time, which I suspect it was, then calcium wasn't an issue at all. Other than the odontomas she displayed no signs of MBD. I was worried that all this excess calcium I had been giving her might have caused the odontomas to grow but the vet didn't think so.

[Jackie in Tampa]

so sorry to hear this news...
just finding this thread... have not read it all the way thru yet...
There is alot of odontoma info on TSB...
alot of sqs that have had tooth extractions also...
after surgery, he'll need soft foods such as yogurt and baby foods, and you can try offering formula again... some sqs will actually welcome it...but soon he will heal and be ready for solids.
the incisors are tools...the molars are the mascerators that do all the chewing...
depending on your sq...he may want food chopped small enough to handle and pass back to molars...
or he may become HEman and use his gums as tools...
trial and error will show you what works best for your situation...

was your sq orginally a cage chewer or was this from falling from nest when a baby?
can you take pics of teeth before surgery please...ty...

white tears are stress....in your case, medical painful stress...
so happy you were able to find a vet willing to do the surgery...many times only one tooth can be pulled at a time due to excessive bleeding and or swelling, just want to share that so if this happens you will know it's possible to do a follow up surgery after a few weeks...their mouths are very small and their teeth are very long and curved...it is a very tricky surgery...kudos to your vet for know what he was seeing and to be willing to help...amen.

best to ask your vet upfront about techniques and anethesia...
I am a firm believer that sqs should not be intubated and that time under isoflorane should be restricted to 55 minutes tops...

Please keep us in the loop...
will get a fresh cup of jo and read about your sq:Love_Icon :wave123
:Welcome a late welcome!:wave123

[Jackie in Tampa]

dang...right off the bat I discovered your sq is a girl...sorry:peace :crazy

[Jackie in Tampa]

Wilson:Love_Icon
do you still have the other sq? I saw two sqs on your facebook links?

who trims her teeth and why?
how long has she had to have her teeth trimmed? does she have a maloclusion?
I see Step hit on teeth right away as did others...
the sneezing /whistlin is usually a sure sign of dental root tumors...
so glad that she will have surgery...sending good vibes to :Love_Icon Wilson...:grouphug
Ferret Nation Cages...the bar spacing is so wide, they allow chewing,...
maybe time to rethink the cages also...imho.

[Roo]

Hi, I was just reading up on your issue. I just had to bring my Ben to Florida to have his odontomas removed in February. I was feeding him baby food from a syringe after his surgery. He would also take some soft fruits (cut up very small). Also his favorite treat that he rarely gets normally,McDonalds French fries. Has your vet ever done this before? On squirrels or rabbits? There is a vet in Florida that does this a lot. If you want her info let me know.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Wilson has never been a cage chewer so I'm not sure when or how this actually occurred. She is over six years old now so it makes me wonder if this is just something that occurs more frequently in older squirrels being that those in captivity probably live longer than those that are not? The one thing I'm wondering about is that we used to give her black walnuts and those are super hard to get into for a squirrel. I'm thinking that giving them things that are that solid may have done it? The first time we had her teeth clipped the top left tooth was curving back and up. That's the only reason I had them clipped because I was afraid it was going to go up into the roof of her mouth and it had started too a tiny bit when they clipped it.

I noticed the milky eyes over two years ago and didn't think anything more at that time besides allergies. With that being said, the odontomas look fairly small so I'm not sure they have always been the source of the milky eyes.

The other small squirrels in the pictures were two other babies we rehabbed and released. They were brother and sister and fell out of their nests when they were still pink (someone cut the tree down they were living in). We had to even stimulate them to use the bathroom! We got them in October a few years ago. We wouldn't have taken them except there was a cat snooping around in their area.

One thing that I have noticed in squirrels is that the boys seem to be less territorial than the girls. The girls will hide away their favorite nuts and then guard them ferociously!! ha ha ha. The boys don't really seem to care and they also seem afraid of strangers. The girls are more curious and fearless. Anyway, just what I've observed with having four squirrels and releasing three. I would've released Wilson but she would have none of that!

[kentuckysquirrel777]

I've read up on Dr. Dan and Dr. Emerson. If my vet was unwilling to do the surgery I guess I would've been taking a road trip. I wish more vets were knowledgeable about squirrels but the fact that they are not legal pets in a lot of states keeps that from happening. I can't wrap my head around why they are illegal in some states as the squirrel I have has been a better pet than any I have had and seems more intelligent as well; and I've had numerous pets from dogs to rabbits to birds. None have had the personality that Wilson has. I can only wonder what kind of cool pets they would be after being domesticated and selectively bred for certain traits for a good period of time! People hear the term "wild" animal and from hearing some people talk you would think squirrels were the pit bulls of the rodent family!

They are hard work though because of the lack of info. So unless someone is ready to dedicate a lot of time to raising one, it's best to not have one as a pet. But if you don't have much of a choice, they are a blessing for sure!

Also Wilson first had her teeth clipped at about age four. Then she needed it about every six months, just the top ones though because they always wanted to grow back and up. I bought clippers that were recommended somewhere on here and tried to do this myself but I was afraid I was going to cut her or mess it up. So I let the vet do it.

I stopped antibiotics yesterday and the calcium that I had been doing for about a month because I thought that MBD was the problem from a lot of the info on here. Today, Wilson seems to be doing the best she has in the past month since I started all that. Perhaps some of that was contributing to her breathing problems along with the odontomas? I'm just glad someone pointed out odontoma as a possible cause on here because otherwise I just would've continued with calcium and jumped around trying different antibiotics. The info on here is a life saver for sure! Thank you to all of you who take the time to share your knowledge on these situations, many squirrels are better off because of it and a lot of owners are a little less stressed, I'm sure :)

Oh, one more thing...Wilson LOVES McDonald's French fries!! Just as a special treat though!

[CrazySquirrelLady]

i love mc'd's french fries too... yum

[kentuckysquirrel777]

After having the surgery done tomorrow; does anyone have some tips on what I can feed her? Specifically things that she will most likely willingly eat to keep her strength and weight up?

[farrelli]

Bump.

Maybe formula and yogurt? Maybe blocks crushed up and added to same? Hopefully someone will have experience with a soft food diet.

Maybe this thread would cover it as it has a lot of coverage of this surgury and the followup:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8149&highlight=dancing+squirrel

[Unikorngrrl]

BUMP again!!

[Unikorngrrl]

I know you can feed baby foods also. I'm trying to get some attention for more experienced help on this!! :Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

Here is a thread that contains healthy "soup" recipes:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27450&highlight=soup+recipe

[Unikorngrrl]

WonkaWillie
"Couldnt you just make up a soft paste of fox valley formula?"

[Rhapsody]

After having the surgery done tomorrow; does anyone have some tips on what I can feed her? Specifically things that she will most likely willingly eat to keep her strength and weight up?Let me find the recipe I can up with for my Marven after he had surgery to remove his four front teeth and could not eat regular food for a while....... Hang on sec or two. :D

[Unikorngrrl]

Let me find the recipe I can up with for my Marven after he had surgery to remove his four front teeth and could not eat regular food for a while....... Hang on sec or two. :D
AWESOME Rhapsody!!!! :thankyou

[Rhapsody]

While you wait...... Here is My Marven (post surgery) -- :Love_Icon



Marven all SNUGGLED UP for Medicine Time.....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/MARVEN_NR/Surgery003.jpg

[Rhapsody]

I made a puree mix with: water, fox valley, hhb, nuts, and vanilla yogurt..... to get him to eat his greens I added them in the form of baby food (peas or green beans).

Mix in Blender:
1. 1st finely chop up 5 hhb - set a side
2. 2nd finely chop up handful of walnuts - set a side
3. blend 1.5 cup hot water & 1/2 cup fox valley formula
4. add in and blend together 2-4 tablespoon yogurt
5. add in and blend together one square baby food vegetable
6. add in the chopped hhb & nuts and blend for 5 minutes.

...... you can add extra water if needed to obtained right consistency.

My Marven :Love_Icon this mixture and ate it every day. Good Luck.

[Milo's Mom]

I am a little late to the welcoming party, sorry and Welcome to TSB!!!

I've read through your entire thread and I noted that the diet was "off" in the beginning but you have changed it and Wilson is now eating HHB's daily. Good job!!

I also noted that you questioned whether you should continue or stop the MBD treatment and that you have since stopped. This post may get a little long, so I am apologizing in advance.

As you've read, MBD leeches calcium from the bones and brain. This is not something that happens overnight, sometimes it takes a few weeks to see symptoms, sometimes it takes months and sometimes even years. Since squirrels are prey animals their lives depend on them NOT showing any signs of weakness or illness...in other words they hide symptoms very well. By the time us humans see the symptoms they are usually in a lot of pain and are no longer able to hide all of the signs. So, yes, MBD symptoms can "appear overnight"; when in actuality the disease has been progressing for a very very long time. It cannot be fixed over night or even in a few months, most times it takes years, as the body must rebuild bone and strengthen the existing bone.

Odontomas can develop as a result of several things; some of which have already been mentioned...cage chewing, improper repetitive clippings, constant abnormal tooth trauma, birth defect, etc. Odontomas can also be the result of a calcium deficient diet.

My personal opinion, for what it's worth.....
In additional to the 2 HHB's per day every day, Wilson needs some additional calcium. Why? The body requires a certain amount on a daily basis and you are providing this with the Healthy Diet and the HHB's; HOWEVER, since Wilson's diet was calcium deficient for 6 years there is bone that has to be repaired/rebuilt/strengthened. This repair work cannot occur with only providing the daily amount of calcium....the body will use it for it's normal daily regular functions, thus leaving no extra for the repair work.

Dusting Wilson's food with a small amount of calcium powder every day is a good idea, in my opinion.

I would NOT mix the FV formula into a paste....if you are going to offer FV formula (which I do think is a good idea) I would mix it per the instructions on the bag, which is 2 parts hot water to 1 part FV powder. If you use less water you are not reconstituting the formula completely and it could cause constipation or GI issues.

The HHB's in their regular form may be a little to rough/hard for Wilson immediately after surgery. There are some options here too.
1. Call Leigh at Henry's and see if she can make Wilson's HHB's a little more cakeier/fluffy/softer.
2. Grind up the HHB's into a powder (or as close as possible), mix a very small amount of FV per the instructions on the bag and add some of the FV liquid to the HHB powder. Go drop by drop and only add enough to make the HHB's wet (like a dry cookie dough). Then roll the wet HHB/FV mixture into small balls, weighing approx 5 grams each. There are many many different versions of this recipe and some people add extra nuts. In Wilson's case, I do not recommend adding nuts. The HHB's have nuts. Your objective is to make sure that Wilson is still able to eat the equivelent to 2 HHB's a day while recovering and the above process gives you that ability. As Wilson's recovery progresses making the HHB's softer may not even be necessary.
If you find that after recovering Wilson will no longer eat the HHB's in their regular form, personally I would ask Leigh to make the softer ones for you.

As for food immediately following surgery.....same stuff as before, just cut it up into tiny pieces or puree it in the blender and add a few drops of water so Wilson can lap it up. It will take some trial and error.

The biggest thing to do after surgery is make absolutely 100% sure that Wilson stays hydrated. If needed, you can even add a few drops of natural UN-sweetened apple juice to the water and syringe feed it. Becoming dehydrated will mess up the appetite, slow recovery, and in general make Wilson feel even worse. In addition, Wilson will most likely be on some pain meds following surgery and as with any medication hydration is paramount.

Sorry for the length of all this and hopefully you find at least some of it helpful. I am sending healthy, happy, positive thoughts to both you and Wilson.

:grouphug

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Thank you guys so much!! Wilson has been doing really well these past few days which is making me second guess the surgery but nonetheless she goes tomorrow at 8:30 to get those things out! I've neglected to mention this thus far; on her x-rays she had a mass on her lower left side of her cheek. Vet said we will deal with that later because it isn't interfering with her breathing. Sort of wondering what that could be? Anyway, thank you ALL so very much for the kind words and help during this process!! I'll try to post a video of Wilson playing a bit yesterday.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Here it is...not the best quality but shows how she's doing going into this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152937133655305&l=7533990301923461234

[Nancy in New York]

Sorry, just seeing these posts now. Has this vet done this before?

[Unikorngrrl]

Sweet Wilson!!! You got lots of food advice :thumbsup :thumbsup :grouphug

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Vet hasn't done this on squirrels but other rodents. Also thanks to Farelli, Unikorngrll, Sammysmom, Rhapsody and Milo's Mom. Your advice and that of others will be taken. I will definitely keep her on the calcium for a bit longer now. Also ordered some picky eater blocks from Henry's a couple of days ago. Wilson loves hazelnuts...anyone have any recipes utilizing them?

Love the pic of Marven, Rhapsody!! How is he doing and how long ago (never mind on when...date on the pic...ha ha ha) did he have this done? I'm hoping this allows Wilson to have a long, happy life.

[farrelli]

I hope that the surgery was successful and that Wilson is doing well.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Surgery was a success!! I have the teeth and will be uploading pics soon. There was one odontoma and it was definitely pressing into the sinus cavity. The surgery went from about 8:30 a.m. to about 10:30 a.m. They called about 11 a.m. to let me know Wilson was out of surgery and was doing good. They wanted to observe her for a few more hours though. I went back up there at 3:30 and they brought out Wilson. They said she hadn't really moved around a lot until I started talking and they guess she heard me because she started moving around in the back. I have pain meds to give her, antibiotics to stave off any infection and I can go back up tomorrow to get an anti-inflammatory shot just in case her nasal passages swell too much making breathing difficult. She is sleeping right now.

I'm hoping to make some of those recipes you kind folks posted on this thread. This was this vet's first attempt at this and it looks like she hit a homerun.

One other plus, a couple in my bible study group just love Wilson. To my surprise when I went to pay my bill, they had already taken care of it in full! There are a lot of things in this world I don't deserve, and having two friends like that are definitely something I do not deserve!

Thanks again to all of you wonderful people on this board. I'm sure you don't even realize how important you are to people like me and how thankful I am that you would help me out in this situation. Thanks again! I'll keep updating Wilson's progress and like I said I'll get the pics of the teeth on here soon.

[Unikorngrrl]

Thank you for the update!! That's great news!!! :grouphug

[Earth Mama]

aww! Give Wilson a kiss for me!!:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Guys, I have to ask this question. How hard is it on the squirrel after surgery? Poor Wilson is really struggling it seems right now. She has the bloody nose and oozing from the mouth but my vet said that was normal. She seems to still be pretty out of it and wants no food yet, none. Any thoughts from those who have gone through this?

Thanks!

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Again, anyone out there have experience with post surgery issues? Still cannot get Wilson to eat solid foods. I crush everything up, slice and dice, etc. She puts the food in her mouth and then spits it back out. I've been forcing ensure in her but not much a day. She just started drinking water on her own. How can I get her to eat?! She acts like she wants to eat but once she puts it in her mouth she spits it right back out...like she doesn't know how to with her top two teeth gone.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

I've tried all the recipes on this thread as well...no luck.

[farrelli]

What kinds of pain meds is he on? And could the problem be because he's congested? If he can't breathe while eating that could cause this as much as the pain.

[CrazySquirrelLady]

did you try the fox valley formula and ground henry's blocks? that makes a mush, and maybe could eat that.

i would try yogurt. i would try fox valley formula with yogurt.

www.henryspets.com has the supplies i mentioned.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Tried yogurt, a few different kinds, will not touch it. Even tried giving it to her "forcibly" in a syringe. Too much fighting and it was stressing her out so I stopped. Tried the HHB's, even the "Picky" formula with no luck. I grounded them up and even put her favorite hazelnuts crushed up with it a couple of times as well. No luck either. She just started drinking water on her own late Saturday. Her surgery was Thursday.

[CritterMom]

Pick up a bottle of vanilla or pecan Ensure and try that. It will get lots of nutrients into her fast, plus plenty of calories/fat too. If she likes it, you can start using it to mix the ground HHBs with, then slowly back out the Ensure as she gets the taste for them.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Using the pecan ensure already. You would think I was trying to feed her acid or something the way she reacts to it. I was able to give her pieces of a McDonald's fry a few minutes ago. Anyway, I looked up the pain meds she was on Torb Suspension and saw that it can suppress appetite. So for now, no more pain meds to see what happens. She should be fine since surgery was last Thursday.

[farrelli]

Is her breathing OK? Just want to make sure that that's not a cause as well.

[kentuckysquirrel777]

Her breathing was a major issue the first few days because of the congestion like you said. She was actually mainly breathing out her mouth. So horrible to hear. Anyway, she's now breathing through her nose but still a lot of drainage with some light blood. She did eat a fry and part of a cheez-it. I know bad on me but I'm trying her faves just to get something in her. I emailed Dr. Dan's office tonight too in the hopes he may have some suggestions.

[CrazySquirrelLady]

feed her whatever she will eat that she loves. try ice cream? chocolate is a good one squirrels love chocolate flavor.


avocado? usually a favorite of mine.

blueberries? cold cool berries or some kind of cool fruit? mashed?


bananas mashed?

I am just shooting in the dark here.... i am no squirrel surgery expert.

ice cream. try that.