Local rescue releases at 12 weeks!

[ques96]

I am sorry if I did not put this in the right place. It has been so amazing watching DoDa grow and learning so much here that I contacted my local rescue to see about becoming a volunteer. In our discussion I was told that they release at 12 weeks! I didn't know how to respond to this all I could think is THAT IS TOO YOUNG!!!! I know I am a still a newbie but you all have so much information on the board that I have read everything I could find to learn more. I guess I am just venting.:soapbox I did mention the board to her and commented about all the years of experience the members here have and that 16 weeks is recommended at the youngest for beginning soft release. Not sure if it fell on deaf ears or not. Probably won't be approved to volunteer there either.:shakehead

[Nancy in New York]

So very sad. Why go to all of the expense and care to rehab only to release at such a young age. WHY? :shakehead

[Shewhosweptforest]

Just the other day someone at school got three babies after her sons girlfriends family cutdown a tree and the mama was killed when she jumped from the falling tree:pissed she took them to a local "wildlife" vet where the rehabber said they probably would have been fine and they would release soon:shakehead they couldn't have been but 12 wks old...they were small:shakehead I was upset...but what cha going to do they're legal:soapbox ..get legal:thumbsup and make a change:grouphug

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Sadly a lot of centers release early. Lack of caging, not seeing the importance of keeping them much beyond weaning because if they can eat on their own, they can survive on their own, right :nono. Depending on how you average ages, though, they are probably releasing more like 14 week old squirrels because most count them as eyes open at 4 weeks when really they don't open their eyes til 6 weeks. I release my guys when they are half grown and can crack open nuts. They spend at least 3 weeks in the outside cage after being weaned. I'd say my guys are probably closer to 15 weeks at release, maybe even 14. My guys are currently about 10 weeks old and they were just weaned (everyone is over 300 except the skinny guy who is up to 255 and eats like a pig so is also weaned) and they are getting very restless inside. If I were home, I'd move them to the outside cage and that's where they are going as soon as I get home. They will likely go free 3 weeks after that, so going free in about a month. They are big, quick, have an attitude, can crack open nuts, and are quite capable of caring for themselves when they go free.

So, my point is, that it isn't necessarily the "age" they say they release at as their practices. If you find a scrawny baby, it will not be ready to go free in a couple weeks, it takes time. Instead of finding out the age they release at, I'd ask how do you determine when a squirrel is ready to go free. If they then tell you a certain weight, how much time they need to spend outside, and abilities they need (climbing, burying nuts, able to crack nuts, etc) then that will give you a much better idea of the center you are dealing with than just the fact that they say they release at 12 weeks.

[island rehabber]

I've gotten in big trouble for this over the years, but.....

....I often release at 12 weeks. In groups where the older two might be 14 weeks but one might be only 11-12, I will release the younger one with his sibling group. I have never had a problem with this. I will say that I'd rather do it with spring season babies because summertime is easy and I supplement feed all year round anyway.

YOU are in Florida, ques96. You don't have the concern of bare trees, frigid weather and no food. I see no reason why, if a baby is 12 weeks old and healthy and being released in a GOOD release site, you should ever have a problem.

Up here in the north we have a fall season that begins around Aug 15. Latest time we can release is mid-November, which makes even the earliest babies only 12-13 weeks old. If we don't get them out there, we have to overwinter, and not everyone is set up to do that.

I know my 12-week-old releases do fine because I continue to visit them and see them and feed them for months afterward -- even years. Mamma squirrel would kick her 12-wk olds out in July because she's pregnant again with the next batch.

:peace

[jbtartell]

I agree with maura.. mine go out side when they are 2x day feeding till they wean then when the y are eaing and cracking nuts by them selfs I let them free.. weather they are 12 weeks or 16 wks.. when they get ready I know it and I let them go. all my babies are all just fine and I have been doing this a long time. they seem small at 12 weeks but when you see them run up that tree and play together and then the return to the release cage at night it is worth it.. that is how they learn to be free and when they have learnt they will make or steal a nest.. and you can feel happy you done good for them..:thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

We have to remember that when we get these little ones in, the BIG disadvantage for them is that they are NOT being raised by their mom.
While we all have different opinions, that is the one constant, there is no mother to show them the "ropes" and to watch out for them.

Mentally, I feel they are not prepared to make the decisions that an older squirrel may make. My little 12 week old squirrels are much more interested in playing than in trying to survive. They are not as fast, or strong. With competiton out in the wild, I dare say that a smaller/younger squirrel will not succeed as well as an older/larger one would.

I never understood the reasons for getting them out quickly, when a few more weeks or months can only benefit them.
:peace

[ques96]

I've gotten in big trouble for this over the years, but.....

....I often release at 12 weeks. In groups where the older two might be 14 weeks but one might be only 11-12, I will release the younger one with his sibling group. I have never had a problem with this. I will say that I'd rather do it with spring season babies because summertime is easy and I supplement feed all year round anyway.

YOU are in Florida, ques96. You don't have the concern of bare trees, frigid weather and no food. I see no reason why, if a baby is 12 weeks old and healthy and being released in a GOOD release site, you should not have a problem.

Up here in the north we have a fall season that begins around Aug 15. Latest time we can release is mid-November, which makes even the earliest babies only 12-13 weeks old. If we don't get them out there, we have to overwinter, and not everyone is set up to do that.

I know my 12-week-old releases do fine because I continue to visit them and see them and feed them for months afterward -- even years. Mamma squirrel would kick her 12-wk olds out in July because she's pregnant again with the next batch.

:peace


I have a singleton and will wait to release until older. Maybe if I had several I would feel differently but he is still so juvenile in his behavior that he is just not ready. I rolled his cage out one time this weekend and he ran into his bed and would not come out. I stayed out with him the whole time but he would not come out. So now I roll his cage to the window with the blinds open half way. He will not go to the side of the cage that is in the open window. I think I have a little chicken but I love him!:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[astra]

We have to remember that when we get these little ones in, the BIG disadvantage for them is that they are NOT being raised by their mom.
While we all have different opinions, that is the one constant, there is no mother to show them the "ropes" and to watch out for them.

Mentally, I feel they are not prepared to make the decisions that an older squirrel may make. My little 12 week old squirrels are much more interested in playing than in trying to survive. They are not as fast, or strong. With competiton out in the wild, I dare say that a smaller/younger squirrel will not succeed as well as an older/larger one would.

I never understood the reasons for getting them out quickly, when a few more weeks or months can only benefit them.
:peace
:goodpost :peace

[farrelli]

We have one on here who seems to be going down that road. She's been told that squirrels in the wild are weened by eight weeks and that's what's setting the pace.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39838&page=2

[astra]

We have one on here who seems to be going down that road. She's been told that squirrels in the wild are weened by eight weeks and that's what's setting the pace.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39838&page=2
squirrels in the wild can nurse even after they emerge from their nests (which is past 12 wks) - I've seen it myself

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

We have to remember that when we get these little ones in, the BIG disadvantage for them is that they are NOT being raised by their mom.
While we all have different opinions, that is the one constant, there is no mother to show them the "ropes" and to watch out for them.

Mentally, I feel they are not prepared to make the decisions that an older squirrel may make. My little 12 week old squirrels are much more interested in playing than in trying to survive. They are not as fast, or strong. With competiton out in the wild, I dare say that a smaller/younger squirrel will not succeed as well as an older/larger one would.

I never understood the reasons for getting them out quickly, when a few more weeks or months can only benefit them.
:peace
When you rehab like I do, where every baby taken in would have been euthanized, it is important to get babies out as soon as possible to give time for other little tykes. I would never release animals in a compromised state and I keep cottontails longer than most rehabbers, but with squirrels, my guys are big, strong, quick, and crazy. They listen for noises and bolt for their box when I walk out or they see the cat, or the dog comes running around. They are very alert to their surroundings. If it made a difference in survival, I would certainly keep them longer, but I don't think that they are at any kind of disadvantage being released when they are. If they are at least half grown, been outside for 3 weeks, weaned, and are good runners and climbers, then I don't see what good it does to keep them longer. Especially when if they stay longer it means that I have to turn down baby bunnies, opossums, or squirrels that will be euthanized if I don't take them.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Ok when I released Baby and the two sibs 2 yrs ago they were roughly 16 wks...eyes opened end of Mar. And released end of June....they did not stay with the release cage....is this because I didn't leave them outside locked up in it? Please help because I want these little ones to be successful:dono the two sibs who were with their mom longer and a tad bigger than baby disappeared after three to four days....Baby well...she didn't go any where and was a nervous wreck until I brought her back in in mid Sept.....and the rest is history:) I'm having my husband build a larger release cage that will feel less like a cage:thinking the first is Baby's cage now...it's 39 in sq. and 6 ft tall...I can't imagine releasing these three..they're in the 280-250 grams range and seem tiny to me...they're around 10 wks...with P maybe a week behind. I want to do the best thing to get the greatest success with their release and I would like them to hang close, we live in the middle of 21 wooded acres.... I just want to make sure they have every chance to make it...please any advice to reach this goal would be appreciated :help

[astra]

When you rehab like I do, where every baby taken in would have been euthanized, it is important to get babies out as soon as possible to give time for other little tykes. I would never release animals in a compromised state and I keep cottontails longer than most rehabbers, but with squirrels, my guys are big, strong, quick, and crazy. They listen for noises and bolt for their box when I walk out or they see the cat, or the dog comes running around. They are very alert to their surroundings. If it made a difference in survival, I would certainly keep them longer, but I don't think that they are at any kind of disadvantage being released when they are. If they are at least half grown, been outside for 3 weeks, weaned, and are good runners and climbers, then I don't see what good it does to keep them longer. Especially when if they stay longer it means that I have to turn down baby bunnies, opossums, or squirrels that will be euthanized if I don't take them.
I think, one of the key factors here is releasing in great numbers.
When you have to deal with numbers, as you said, you need to clear space for more babies.
So, the decisive factor here is not that they are 100% ready to live a wild independent life at 12 wks, but that they need to free space for new babies.

I also think what Nancy meant by "disadvantage" is not some compromised state, or any of that.
Of course, the majority of 12wk olds are active, strong, jumping, playing and all that, but their disadvantage is in the fact that wild babies are all that AND plus - they know how to live a wild life.
At 12wks wild babies know much more about being a wild squirrel than rehabbed babies do because they have their mother to teach them:

*Even though wild 12wk olds are allowed to explore the outside on their own, they often still live with their Mom for a few months. And fall babies often spend the entire winter with their Mom and siblings.
I, myself, observed many times how 12-13wk olds would follow their mother, literally, in her footsteps, like a train behind her: she stops - they stop, she sniffs - they sniff, she starts walking again - they do likewise etc.

*Thus, by the time they are 12wks old they know much more about the dynamics of squirrel social order, interaction, 'hunting and gathering," predators and such. Rehabbed babies don't know any of that.

* Also, when Nancy said "mentally," again it didn't mean any compromised condition. "Mentally" refers to their level of maturity.
They can be active, happy, strong, healthy, even a bit on a wild side, but still 'mentally' not ready enough to be completely on their own. And that means completely - totally independent. Even wild 12wk olds are all about playing and having fun, not worrying about food, watching their backs for predators and such (they still have their Mom to cover most of that ;)
In the wild, most 12wk old are never 100% on their own.

THat's the disadvantage that Nancy talked about (Nancy, if I am misinterpreting - please correct :)).

12wks age was chosen for release not because that's the best optimal release age, but because that's the age when wild babies emerge from the nest and are allowed to explore the outside on their own.
Rehab facilities had to pick a certain age for release because they are limited in terms of hands, facilities, resources etc.
When large numbers of diverse animals are rehabbed, space needs to be cleared for the new incoming babies, or because there are no resources to keep them longer (or as in case with some 'bad' centers, like TWC, people just don't feel squirrels are worth the bother, the time, the effort, the money and so on, so once sqs reach the min. age - they are out).

I guess, the point here is that it seems (at least, from my limited experience) that a lot of times squirrels are released at 12wks when there is a way to keep them longer, even if just for a few weeks.
It's one thing when someone has to release at 12 wks because more babies are coming in. It's another thing when people just release at 12 wks
:peace

[Shewhosweptforest]

The wild babies out in my nest box look bigger ..bushier tail etc. and they still just come down to the feeding shelf and then back up the tree:thinking I've seen one on the ground at the base of tree...the tree seems to be their world:dono I don't see their mom...but there are lots of squirrels in my yard..so she's probably one of them..they do not follow her out into the yard:sanp3:thinking :dono

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I do not choose a release time based on what happens in the wild, I choose a release time based on what happens with my guys. When they are crazy and wild and alert to their surroundings, cracking nuts, and half grown, there is no way that they aren't caring for themselves in the wild. I don't really know what age that is, I think mine go around 15 weeks. Some go sooner because they are ready, some go later because they are a bit slower or because there is no outside cage space. I call it a traffic jam in the summer when I have to come up with a plan to get everyone through the outside cages (I have 3 cages plus a small cage I can use for 2 opossums and the outside bank area which is the space with the door leading into the three cage doors which I can use for cottontails). So, I typically have 30 animals and 4 cages, cottontails go out for 1 week, opossums for several (I don't even know how long they're usually out there, I'd say 2 months or more), and squirrels for 3 weeks. Occassionally there are other things in the cages. Sometimes in the summer, I literally have to write up a plan for how I'm planning to get everyone through (and then usually the weather gets bad and I have to refigure the whole thing). So, I guess usually my guys are delayed in getting to the outside cage, but the first group out may move out earlier if it's nice and they are doing good. It all depends, but in the end, I would never release a squirrel if I felt keeping it for another week or month would increase it's chances of survival. What I'm saying is that my guys are tough and ready to go. I don't really have a set age for them, it's whenever they are ready.

My 10 week old squirrels weigh 300-340 grams!

[astra]

totally - :thumbsup it's very important to be in tune with the animals in rehab (unfortunately, not a lot of ppl try to do that).

But what's going on in the wild cannot be and should not be dismissed either.
Isn't that what wildlife rehab is supposed to mimic as much as possible?
Of course, humans cannot weave nests and bring grub and million of microorganisms living in dirt etc, so fleece cubes and block are used.
Yet, even block is supposed to mimic the wild menu nutritionally (if not the actual meals), and isn't that's why young babies are not allowed to explore outside, or be around domestic pets, or raptors are fed live prey, "natural habitats" are created etc etc etc. - to prepare them for the wild by trying to mimic the upbringing they would have gotten in the wild, had they not been orphaned?

A lot of wild babies and juvies are spunky, "acting wild" (as rehabbers say :)) wanting to go and check out what lies beyond their home tree. Yet, their squirrel mothers do not let them.
Overly curious babies are often smacked and shoved back into the nest/nestbox hole. The three super active juvies that lived nextdoor weren't allowed off their home roof. At all. Even though they looked like they were about 11-13wk olds, healthy, big, bushy tailed, 'wild' (of course :)), spunky, playful - their mother did not let them leave their home roof for some time.
It could be that they weren't old enough for her, or just not "mentally" ready for her (somewhat what this thread is about), but it definitely had to do with age (whether their biological age, or mental age). But either way - it's worth considering.

Again, agree that wildlife rehab cannot replicate wildlife atmosphere and conditions 100%, humans do what they can with what they've got.
But what's going on in the wild deserves attention precisely because it is 'wildlife' rehab...
so, if there is a way for some people to release their squirrels at a later age, why not?
:peace

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

The reason I feel that releasing later isn't really the issue is because I've seen babies raised by other rehabbers. They are clingy and needy babies because they have been cuddled and loved on. I do not want to go there with this thread and I don't mean to say that getting attached is bad because I get attached to every single baby that I have. My rule is that you can give them as much attention as you want before their eyes open, but once their eyes open, you should start being more hands off with them and let them be wild. My subpermittee is awesome and she worked wonders with Ellie, but I have noticed that her babies come back to me still very dependent on their caretaker. Keep that squirrel longer and I feel the problem only gets worse. That's my only thought on that. If big and wild in an outside cage, then more time wouldn't hurt.

As for how things work in the wild, that should be taken into account, but my main goal is to have babies that are gonna have a chance in the wild. Squirrels may keep babies longer, but if we did things like rabbit moms, like none of our rabbits would live. They are pregnant while still caring for their current babies so they gotta get them up and out quick. Does that mean that is best to get those babies to survive? Overall yes because they make a lot of babies, but for each individual rabbit it is not the best strategy.

Then there are other animals that are totally the opposite, like beaver. The babies stay with their mom for 2 years! Then they gotta get out there and find somewhere to live. If we know an area that is beaver free and would be a good area, does that mean we shouldn't release at 1 year? I am not sure on that one, but I think it should at least be considered. They need to be 2 years in the wild because they have to get out there and find a place of their own, which is gonna be a really tough journey for them with undoubtedly a lot of fights and they'll have to be strong. If they don't have to do that, could they defend a newly built lodge at 1 year of age? It's something I think is at least worth a try as it would mean saving twice as many beavers, well actually it would mean saving more squirrels as I don't know of any centers that euthanize beavers because they don't have room but I know a bunch that euthanize baby squirrels when they're full.

In my mind, my goal is not to mimic what happens in the wild, it is to prepare babies to live in the wild and really all I care about is giving my guys the best possible shot at life in the wild. So, if a rabbit in the wild stands a 1% chance of surviving, is it wrong to keep it longer and give it a 10% chance (not sure on %s for rehabbed guys, I always view my guys as living forever since I don't usually know how things go)? I think most would agree no. With the mom squirrel and her babies, maybe the area is overpopulated? I haven't seen many baby squirrels out, but my subpermittee tells me about little ones that come out that don't sound very old and I have seen only one baby squirrel and it was a little spunky maybe 10 week old running around like a crazy thing, mom nowhere in sight but he was very healthy and afraid of humans and quick. So, I think even when considering squirrels, make sure you don't generalize based on a small pool of animals in an area where food is very plentiful (do all squirrel moms keep an eye on their babies for as long if food is tough to come by or the population in the area is lower so there is less chance of the babies experiencing attacks by other adult squirrels?). How many have watched squirrels in a truly natural setting?

Don't want to start any arguements and as I've said if things are going well and the animals are wild, I don't think it hurts at all to keep them longer, but I also feel my guys are very well prepared. I probably have only released a handful of 12 week olds, but am not sure since I don't have my records. My point is that age is not even a factor for me. Yes, it certainly takes time for them to get to a point where they are releaseable, but I'm not like oh, you're now 16 weeks old, time for you to go. I have no doubt kept some spring babies longer than that.

[ques96]

When I first posted this I was under the assumption that 16 weeks was the minimum age for release from reading posts from past questions. I did not intend to start a heated debate but what has happened here is a good thing. This thread lets newbies like me know there are quite a few ways to do something and none are the wrong way. Basically what I have learned from this is that it depends on the squirrel first off and then the rehabbers way. Great learning experience for me. Thank you all for such in depth discussion and ideas.:thankyou

[astra]

* - to avoid repeating myself will defer to what i posted before :peace
When I first posted this I was under the assumption that 16 weeks was the minimum age for release from reading posts from past questions. I did not intend to start a heated debate but what has happened here is a good thing. This thread lets newbies like me know there are quite a few ways to do something and none are the wrong way. Basically what I have learned from this is that it depends on the squirrel first off and then the rehabbers way. Great learning experience for me. Thank you all for such in depth discussion and ideas.:thankyou:thumbsup

[pappy1264]

Earliest I have ever released was 15 weeks, and although I believe they did ok, my concern is always the wilds and them being chased off. If possible, giving them a bit more time, to get bigger, and more attitude, they are less likely to be run off. I release out of my back yard, live on the 'woods' so have alot of space for them to go out into, but thankfully most continue to come back every day for a free meal (usually twice a day, I might add! lol) Heck, all Bean's kids (she is on her third set) all continue to come every day, too (and I didn't raise them, but Bean has taught them I am a friend, I guess, so they come right to the 'take out window' just like Bean.) Just my two cents.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Pappy 1264 I would love to pick your brain :eek: about release..it sounds as if we have similar situations on our release areas and I would love to be able to keep an eye out for my babies just like I do and always have for the wilds:dono I've always tried to look out for all the critters
....I can't see the harm in that:shakehead:Love_Icon