Hi Everyone, I am a worried new mom! [Archive]

Brin

04-04-2013, 03:48 PM

Hi everyone, this is my first post here.
My boyfriend is a tree cutter and after cutting a roughly 30ft tree yesterday, he found this little baby squirrel next to a giant branch he lowered. (THANKGOD it didn't squish him!)
Thankfully he doesn't seem to have any broken bones! I've never had a baby squirrel before but I am guessing he is 4 and halfish weeks old based on what I've read online.
His eyes are still closed, his teeth are beginning to grow, his belly is pink, no hair underneath his tail, but otherwise he has a nice coat all over.
He doesn't move around to much, sleeps ALOT unless we wake him up to feed him.
We are feeding him Esbilac powder with a 3cc syringe every 4-5 hours.
He has a heating pad with lots of bedding and he seems to be dreaming like crazy. He snuggles into different positions for a while then moves around to another spot. He does appear to be dreaming, and twitching like a dog would almost constantly.
I am concerned about his fall from the tree.
I am also worried about leaving him alone, I don't trust heating pads... he has a space to escape the heat but I also just read something about having them get sunlight... should I carry him in my bra today while I run errands?

Sooo many questions, I can't stop worrying about him.

MollyBear361

04-04-2013, 03:51 PM

Do you know what kind of squirrel he is? Did you look around for more babies or mama? Most of the time there is always more than one baby.

farrelli

04-04-2013, 03:57 PM

Esbilac is bad. You should get goat's milk for right now and transition to Fox Valley after it arrives. This link covers the whole thing.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29903

And here is all about proper feeding technique:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36777

Hating pads are good, but they need to be set on low and put half way UNDER the container so that they can't chew it and can crawl off if too hot.

CrazySquirrelLady

04-04-2013, 06:31 PM

Bras are great places to stash little ones. They are warm and safe.

Once they get older and squirmy and jumping, it's a bad idea. ouch.

Goat milk formula is way better than Esibilac, which gives the babies diarrhea!!!

Goat Milk formula recipe is in the squirrel nutrition section... If I remember it is 2 parts goat milk, one part vanilla full fat yogurt and some heavy whipping cream.

I think Wal Mart has fresh cartons of goat milk.

Then I would order some Fox Valley Nutrition powdered milk to feed your baby, my squirrels got big and fat on it, and they are really healthy. i know you want your baby squirrel to get the best nutrition you can give him.

Keep updating us and we will help ya out! :D I raised my first 4 last year so I know how it is to be a NEW MOmmy :D

stepnstone

04-04-2013, 06:53 PM

:Welcome Brin :wave123
If your not seeing brusing or other injury I wouldn't worry too much about the fall,
these little ones can and do survive falling from really high places all the time.

You mentioned not trusting the heating pad...
It should be placed half under the container you have him in, never in with them.
Half under so he can move off the heat if he gets too hot.

Preparing for release is a process done in stages but I wouldn't think that far ahead right now.
For now the important thing is to get him on the right formula, stable and thriving.

Brin

04-04-2013, 07:20 PM

Thank you so much everyone!

Now I feel terrible for feeding him Esbilac :( He took a little poop last night but hasn't given me anything today, even after 15 minutes of wiping him with a wet tissue :(
I am going to go the store right after I send this to get the substitute goats milk , heavy whipping cream, vanilla yogurt before my fox valley gets here!

Also, he is an Eastern Fox squirrel !
Here's a picture of my boyfriend feeding him :)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=316114541848713&set=a.204569619669873.42912.100003505084957&type=1&theater

Also I have another question... His heart seems to be beating really hard, harder than it was before making him bounce a little every time... is he dehydrated?

He just ate 3cc of Esbilac before I read this... and at 7a.m this morning he had 3cc, and at 11a.m he had 2 and a half

I am so thankful for you all! Thank you!

Brin

04-04-2013, 07:25 PM

Oh and my boyfriend, Cody, said he looked all over and didn't see any other babies. He said he left the nest near the tree and waited to see if the mom would come back and she didn't so he wrapped him up and brought him home.

He said he'd had him for a good 7 hours before we finally got him some Esbilac to eat last night.
BTW, his heart has been beating like that since 11a.m today

CrazySquirrelLady

04-04-2013, 08:15 PM

their hearts race compared to ours, because their body temp is higher! I am not sure of any way to test for dehydration other than pinching the loose skin at the back of the squirrel's neck. If the pinch of skin stays tented and does not go back to normal quickly, it is likely he is dehydrated. If skin goes back quickly to the way it was before you pinched it, then it is likely the squirrel is not dehydrated.

of course if your squirrel wants more temporary goat's milk formula, you can try a teeny bit more at each feeding. Foxers are CHOW hounds, I find. Be sure to look up the exact measurements in the squirrel nutrition section.

:D

at this stage I was feeding mine every 4 hours and i was SO TIRED :D

I feel for ya! good luck and don't fret about the esibilac! You didn't know! We don't baby to get the diarrhea, bless it's little heart. The goat's milk is way easier on their tum tum cute lil red tummies ;) ooh i bet he is the cutest lil fella with lil black feetsies... !!!

island rehabber

04-04-2013, 08:38 PM

ok Brin, you've got full access to the Board now so you should be able to post pix, send and receive private messages and see all Forums. :Welcome :)

Brin

04-04-2013, 08:43 PM

kastillo

04-04-2013, 08:45 PM

Saw the pic on FB. What a doll.
You are getting great advice on here!

kastillo

04-04-2013, 08:50 PM

Oh okay that makes sense, thank you!
I tried the pinching technique and he is dehydrated, it slowly returns to normal instead of going right back.

I got his substitute goats milk formula, except I read somewhere to leave out the heavy whipping cream for the first feeding as it is harder to digest so I just mixed the yogurt in with the goats milk.

Until I found out he was dehydrated, I was planning on giving him that in the next 2 hours but now I need to ask... Should I give him 3cc's of this mix (since I don't have pedialyte)?
1 teaspoon salt
3 teaspoons regular table sugar
1 quart warm water

Or should I do half of the rehydration and half of the goats milk?
haha If he is a milk hound should I feed him more than 3cc's in a feeding?

Also, where is the squirrel nutrition section?

Thanks a million!!!

Do you have a gram scale??
He needs to be weighed to find out how much you should feed him. Feed him 5-7% of his body weight. Example: 100g = 5 - 7 cc formula

EDIT: NEVER MIX re hydration fluids with formula.... You can give him re hydration fluids for up to 24 hours, you could give him a little hydration between feedings till his skin doesn't tent any longer.

SammysMom

04-04-2013, 09:03 PM

Giving him hydration formula is a good idea. They need to be fully hydrated before eating formula. Make sure he is warm, the hydration formula is warm (almost hot) and the same for the formula when you feed him that. Never mix hydration formula with formula. Only offer hydration formula for 24 hours and if he is still dehydrated after that make it without the salt. You can give a hydration feeding between formula feedings to keep him hydrated if it is an issue. :grouphug

Skul

04-04-2013, 09:37 PM

Thank you so much everyone!

Now I feel terrible for feeding him Esbilac
Please, do NOT feel bad about that. You did the right thing.
It will provide for the little one until you can offer better.
Esbilac will not harm the squirrel over a short time.
It's just not what we consider best for long term care.

You did the right thing with the information you had gathered from other sites.
Get him transitioned over the next day or so. He'll be fine. :thumbsup

Brin

04-04-2013, 10:07 PM

I know he's adorable isn't he! :)
and thank you! I gave him 2 and a half cc's of the reyhydration formula and now he's snuggled up against my chest. I love him so much!

Should I feed him his goats milk soon or wait another four hours?

He still hasn't pooped today, will he die if he doesn't go poop?

Cody rubbed him with a kleenex for about 10 minutes and then he started chirping and squirming to get away so I put him in my shirt and he stopped.
We are worried about wiping him with the kleenex to much and giving him a rash but what should we do about getting him to go to the bathroom? :(

farrelli

04-04-2013, 10:13 PM

Please make sure he's fully hydrated. Dehydration can cause the constipation, which can be fatal. You should make sure that he's hydrated before more food. You could also introduce a bit of juice because, not only is it hydrating, the sugar will pull water into the gut.

If he's getting a rash, you can put Vaseline or veg oil on your finger to stimulate without irritation.

farrelli

04-04-2013, 10:28 PM

Btw, make sure your finger is warm!

kastillo

04-04-2013, 10:35 PM

I use a q tip dipped in warm water and put a diaper (a paper towel) underneath the butt to catch everything. When the q tip gets cold, I dip it in the warm water, give it a good sling to get the excess off, and continue stimulation.
Works for me! It has to be quick rapid flicks, not hard, almost like a tickle, try to simulate the mothers tongue licking them.

Also, you want to stimulate the genitals only, not the anus, if you touch the anus, it will just clinch up. Stimulate only genitals like this and I bet you get :poop !!

Shewhosweptforest

04-04-2013, 10:41 PM

:Welcome Brin:wave123 We need pics...I'm not on FB and I want to see the little Foxer:D :crazy :thankyou

MollyBear361

04-04-2013, 11:09 PM

Pics pics pics!!!!!!!! :D please???

Brin

04-04-2013, 11:51 PM

Shoot how do you get pictures up here?
It won't let me drag and drop.... :( I will keep trying to figure it out

He still hasn't gone to the bathroom, I will keep trying but how much water can he drink, he doesn't seem to want anymore he moves away and I feel like I have to force it into his mouth :( I don't like that

Brin

04-04-2013, 11:55 PM

200200

farrelli

04-05-2013, 12:19 AM

Is he still dehydrated? If you gently pinch the skin between the shoulders, does it tent or go right back down like on the back of your hand? If it goes right back down, he's well hydrated.

Try the juice, and if you feel like he's really backed up, you can soak his lower body in warm water and gently massage his tummy and sides. Make sure he's thoroughly dried afterwards though so as not to get chilled.

Skul

04-05-2013, 12:42 AM

Btw, make sure your finger is warm!
Ummm. why am I laughing about that? :rofl4

Never mind. Nothing to see here. :rotfl

stepnstone

04-05-2013, 12:54 AM

Ummm. why am I laughing about that? :rofl4

Never mind. Nothing to see here. :rotfl

:jump

CrazySquirrelLady

04-05-2013, 09:26 AM

I would use a cotton ball dipped in warm water to rub his belly with.

I agree with you that Kleenex is too harsh.

You are right, don't force fluids in his mouth... let him take it himself. You are doing good job! :D

Brin

04-05-2013, 10:33 AM

Good morning everyone!

My little guy had 3cc's of cranberry juice last night at 1am and before that 2 and a half at 7:30 --- he has no had any formula since the esbilac powder yesterday at 4:30.
He has not pooped. This morning I tried the fast tickling swipes and got about a drop of a mustard brown and that's it. If even a drop.
Then I he accepted 2 and a half ccs of cranberry juice. He just wants me to let him sleep... I worked on stimulating him for about 20 minutes with warm water.
I'm worried I think I will try putting him in warm water and running his belly like you said.
I don't want him to die ;(

Brin

04-05-2013, 10:41 AM

He just drank 1 more cc of cranberry juice. I'm about to put him in his warm bath now to rub his belly

Brin

04-05-2013, 10:56 AM

That "bath" scared the crap out of him... And I wish I meant that literally. Still no poo. Should I give him his goats milk mixed with the Banilla yogurt?

Also he's all curled up into a ball and just wants to be like that.. Is he in pain?

MollyBear361

04-05-2013, 11:12 AM

mustard brown poo right??? Not pee?

I only put mine in a cup of warm water bc he was really bloated and constipated. It was pretty obvious. But he sat there like a champ as I rubbed his belly. It's only when he let out a HUGE fart that he freaked out. Scared me too. LOL. :rotfl Then when I took him out I had to help him get out a very large amount of poo. He was really backed up. Does he look like he has a big and bloated belly or just dehydrated?

farrelli

04-05-2013, 11:27 AM

How dehydrated is he? What are the results of the pinch test? If his poo was soft, maybe he's not too dehydrated for food.

Brin

04-05-2013, 11:35 AM

Haha that's funny, he just took a lil poo... It was a bubbly mustard brown with little round things in it and it seemed to have some red too
It was about the head of a q-tip.
Yes he seems bloated and a bit dehydrated still.
Should I keep at it with the cranberry juice? He doesn't seem one but interested

Brin

04-05-2013, 11:36 AM

His poo was diarrhea I think

CrazySquirrelLady

04-05-2013, 11:45 AM

you GOTTA feed him the goat milk and yogurt!! he needs formula. He will LOVE it.

let me go look up the recipe for you.

not sure what others have told you, but if he was my squirrel I would be feeding the goat milk formula every four hours, keep him warm.

when they are little all they do is eat sleep and poop, enjoy it now while they are quiet and sleeping and cute. soon he will be a jumping monster! lol.

farrelli

04-05-2013, 11:46 AM

Pinch test, what are the results? How long does it stay tented?

CrazySquirrelLady

04-05-2013, 11:47 AM

here is a post from island rehabber, about the goat milk formula.

***While waiting for the Fox Valley to arrive...

Temporary Formula for Infant Squirrels � The Goat�s Milk Formula

Because of recent manufacturing issues, Esbilac and other puppy formulas are no longer being recommended for squirrels or other wildlife. The formula that TSB recommends, Fox Valley Day One, is currently available online at www.foxvalleynutrition.com and www.henryspets.com. But those require shipping and this baby squirrel needs food NOW.

One of our senior members who posts as Jackie in Tampa uses an excellent temporary substitute, and it can be assembled from locally purchased ingredients:

3 parts goat�s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream*
1 part vanilla yogurt

Formula will last 48 hours in refrigerator.

Goat�s Milk
This can be purchased at natural food stores such as Trader Joe�s and Whole Foods, and at most health food stores that sell groceries. It is a product for humans. Do not substitute commercial formula made for baby goats or other livestock sold at feed stores. edit: I hear it is at Wal Mart in cartons. CSL

Goat�s milk is available fresh in a carton; evaporated in a can; and as a powdered milk. If you purchase either the evaporated or powdered versions, please blend them with water according to the package directions before using to make the formula.

Heavy Whipping Cream
This is found in small cartons in the grocery store near the coffee creamers and half and half. Regular heavy cream may be substituted if it is unavailable, but the heavy whipping cream has the highest fat content, and is preferred.

Yogurt
Yogurt has beneficial bacteria in it that soothes and settles digestion. Full fat yogurt is best, and a good choice that is very widely available is Stoneyfield Yobaby yogurt. However if it is unavailable, a low fat vanilla yogurt may be substituted. Avoid those that have artificial sweeteners in them. Vanilla and banana are both popular flavors, and the sweet taste of the yogurt helps to convince the baby to accept it.

It has been recently discovered that very small pinky squirrels may do better digestively if, instead of being given Fox Valley formula straight, mix the Fox Valley 50/50 with the Goat�s Milk Formula assembled WITHOUT the heavy whipping cream.

*It is recommended that when just starting to feed a new baby that the first feedings be made without the heavy whipping cream. This will give their digestive systems a chance to acclimate from mama�s milk to our substitute without the harder-to-digest whipping cream. Once they accept the formula and are eliminating properly, the whipping cream can be gradually added in.

When your Fox Valley formula arrives, please transition your babies to the new formula slowly, by blending the Goat�s Milk Formula with the blended and liquefied Fox Valley formula, increasing the ratio of Fox Valley with each feeding until you are no longer using the goat�s milk.
__________________
Island Rehabber
NY State Licensed
Wildlife Rehabilitator

"Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
Michelangelo

*
If you can't afford the vet,
You can't afford a pet.
NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

"Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."

kastillo

04-05-2013, 12:13 PM

I vote feed him the GM, anyone else?
He needs calories. It might push the poop on through.

Brin

04-05-2013, 12:24 PM

It says tented for a 5 seconds. I just have him a half a cc of pedialyte. Are you sure his rapid breathing is a baby thing?

Brin

04-05-2013, 12:33 PM

He 1 and a half ccs of pedialyte. No pee.

Shewhosweptforest

04-05-2013, 12:51 PM

:wave123 Brin thanks for the pic:grouphug have you been able to get to the store and pick up some goats milk? That would be the next step for your little guy..the juice is good for hydration but not nourishing:sanp3 I found mine fresh in the dairy section of Walmart near the buttermilk and such...you can pick up the whipping cream right there too:thumbsup and the vanilla yogurt...just mix 3 tablespoons of goats milk with one tablespoon of yogurt and use one tablespoon of water in place of the whipping cream (wait until he's had a few feedings before you replace the water with whipping cream:thumbsup ) shake it up good and make sure it's nice and warm:D he'll love it..thanks again for taking such good care of him:bowdown he's depending on you and is so lucky he found you:grouphug :Love_Icon :squirrel1:Love_Icon

farrelli

04-05-2013, 12:53 PM

5 seconds seems quite long. Dehydration itself can cause rapid breathing. Pedialyte should only be continued for 24 hours due to the salt. I've asked someone more experienced to chime in. Hopefully we will soon.

I fear the addition of food because it can cause constipation which can kill. It may have done this on a case a couple weeks ago. As soon as the food started, she went down hill.

Brin

04-05-2013, 02:25 PM

Ill try to post more, thanks again everyone for helping me/us!
I did get that mix and just have him 2 and a half ccs, I feel like he should be eating more. He was dripping red juice from his butt with a little brown to it, it was more like pee but coming from his bum. Sorry for the yucky details but I'm so worried about him.
He wasn't a huge fan of the goats milk it took a lot to get him to drink it but maybe that's because he's weak. He is sleeping now in my shirt while I run errands, and he's twitching and moving about like he does when he sleeps. Should I wait another 4 hours to feed him GM again?

farrelli

04-05-2013, 02:39 PM

I've alerted another couple members. Do you know if you have any rehabers in your area?

I've also asked to get this moved to the Emergency section so that it gets more attention.

Brin

04-05-2013, 02:49 PM

Thank you farelli, no I don't know of any rehabers around here. I fear that because this squirrel is an invasive species here and because they are so abundant that they will put him down. All of my friends say, feed it to the dogs! :(
Not on my watch

island rehabber

04-05-2013, 02:49 PM

Hi Brin. You and your little guy are here in the Emergency section now so you will get more attention from us rehabbers. I am sorry I didn't even see you there in Introduce Yourself -- thanks, farrelli for alerting me!

I just took some time reading this whole thread and I think it's time to take a deeeep breaeth, make a plan, and stick to it. A lot of good suggestions here but, taken all together, will make a circus of this poor kid's daily routine. :D And drive you nuts as well.

If you have got the goat's milk formula together, I WOULD leave out the whipping cream and go with that. Your schedule should be the following starting at 3pm today:

3pm -- as much hydration as he will take. 2 cups WARM water, 3 TABLEspoons sugar, a pinch of salt.....a drop or two of juice to flavor it if he doesn't take to it plain. Let him have as much as he wants.

5pm -- formula (goat's milk)

7pm -- hydration as much as he wants

9pm -- formula again.

Basically he's on an every 4 hrs feeding schedule, with hydration given at the halfway mark between feedings, get it? This SHOULD put him back into proper hydration mode and able to digest his food properly. He is beautiful, by the way!

NOTE: If the diarrhea does not stop by tomorrow morning, you can give him a teeeeny drop of kaopectate. It doesn't cure anything, but at least it keeps some nutrients in the baby's body so he can use them before losing them. :)

farrelli

04-05-2013, 02:52 PM

I think he's been on Pedialyte for 24 hours, no? If so, wouldn't dropping the salt be advisable?

Jackie in Tampa

04-05-2013, 02:54 PM

hi brin./.. was asked to check in on ya's,,,:Welcome :wave123
no more cranberry juice....

the transition from momma milk to powder formula is going to cause a digestive tract change , so poops take a while to catch up...
the first poops will usually be hard dry hard tiny black darkish poops, mothers mlk.
then it may be 2-3 days sometimes before you start seeing formula poops... your baby should be getting one of two things... formula and hydration fluid when needed, no juice.
can we start over, good!
do you have a heating pad undr half the container, set on low, with multiply fleece or tshirt layers... we only are trying to heat a fist sized warm spot, not cook and egg... overheating will kill them ... never feed a cold baby..
if not bloated, do not bath him, baby sqs chill easy.
someone already posted to never mix powdered formula with pedialyte. hydration solution... it becomes counter productive ... same thing with using pedi for more than 24 hours... the excess salt creates dehydration..
the formula itself needs to be warm to extremely warm, never hot...
some sqs are very particular about temperature.
Do not over heat formula, you lose nutrients.
I float a baby food jar of formual in a mug of microwaved water...
never use a pet nurser bottle, never use bigger than a 3 cc syringe..
go slow with the plunger... never alllow baby to control plunger

lets get to the poops and we can get back to the basics in a few minutes... are you seeing cranberry juice poops????
or blood? is this cranberry cocktail, with tons of sugar? or natural juice?

sorry to ask questions if others have already asked..:tilt
oops, IR to the rescue...

Brin

04-05-2013, 03:22 PM

Thank you so so so much! Is there a specific amount of formula he should have? If he doesn't take all three ccs easily should I keep encouraging him to take all of it or should I leave him alone if he only drinks a little and doesn't want anymore?
No more cranberry juice, check.
No more pedialyte.
His box does have a heating pad under it and he seems to try to be right on too if it but he has space to move away from it as well.
His poops looked like cranberry juice.
He looks bloated... But I have nothing to compare him too...
Right now he is in my bra with a hand warmer that he is enjoying while I wait
To pick up a laptop at best buy (excuse my typing errors)
I was afraid to leave him alone while he's sick like this but maybe I should have left him in his box-- he seems to sleep better in my shirt.
And no he wasn't on pedialyte for 24 hours.
His diet has been a circus.. Yesterday I went from esbilac to a homemade rehydration solution to cram berry juice then this morning I went from cran juice to pedialyte to GM without ripping cream.

island rehabber

04-05-2013, 03:27 PM

His diet has been a circus.. Yesterday I went from esbilac to a homemade rehydration solution to cram berry juice then this morning I went from cran juice to pedialyte to GM without ripping cream.

Yeah I was afraid of that....it happens often to the best of newbies because you so want to do the right thing, so you do everything! :)
That's why he's going to be on plain hydration alternating with formula for the next 24 hours. You should also massage his little tummy lightly, with downward motions toward his legs,......gets things moving and lets gas out. If he REALLY looks bloated, however, and his belly becomes hard, STOP ALL FEEDINGS/Liquids and let us know immediately.

Brin

04-05-2013, 03:30 PM

I think it's cocktail cranberry juice- ill verify when I get home
Thankyou!

farrelli

04-05-2013, 03:33 PM

Yes, it's said that a belly should feel like a partially filled water balloon. If it's hard and/or smooth, it's bloat.

Brin

04-05-2013, 05:13 PM

Yes he is bloated. The juice is natural not cocktail. And shoot! I already messed up my new routine already :( and fed him formula first. Is that really bad?
He was ravenous, he sucked down 3 1/2 ccs of GM formula and then I put him back to bed. He was much more lively for this feeding! Then he zonked out in his little bed. :)

farrelli

04-05-2013, 05:17 PM

Precisely when do you think she's bloated? Perhaps you can post some photos of it?

Brin

04-05-2013, 07:40 PM

200270

Does he look bloated to you guys? I feel like he looks like this all the time since we started feeding him

Brin

04-05-2013, 07:49 PM

wow, sorry! that came in huge... Here's a link to the one's on photobucket I just got up! Does he look bloated? http://s181.photobucket.com/upload?location=petey

http://s181.photobucket.com/user/BrinM/media/petey/IMG_4690.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

stepnstone

04-05-2013, 07:54 PM

Wow that other picture hurts the eyes!
Resized for you...

Brin

04-05-2013, 07:59 PM

It does! Sorry about that! How did you resize it on here?
Thank you!
Does he look to bloated to give him some water?

Nancy in New York

04-05-2013, 07:59 PM

He doesn't look bloated to me.
Let me look for a photo of a bloated baby and you can see for yourself. :)

Here you go.

200279

farrelli

04-05-2013, 08:04 PM

So again, why do you think he's bloated? Is his tummy hard?

Nancy in New York

04-05-2013, 08:04 PM

I have to read your whole thread, which I will do in about 10 minutes.
I don't want to offer advice until I read everything, but from what I see by the people who have posted, you have our best rehabbers on here already! :)

stepnstone

04-05-2013, 08:07 PM

It does! Sorry about that! How did you resize it on here?
Thank you!
Your welcome... :D
I have a (free) program that I use to resize pictures once they are on my
computer before I post them here. 600pix is the one I choose for posting.
http://www.shrinkpictures.com/

farrelli

04-05-2013, 08:12 PM

Nancy, I also asked you to join earlier today, but I think I sent you a bad link.

Nancy in New York

04-05-2013, 08:30 PM

Nancy, I also asked you to join earlier today, but I think I sent you a bad link.

Yes, I kept reading her thread looking for the problem.:poke

Nancy in New York

04-05-2013, 08:36 PM

I skimmed your thread.
Do you have a gram scale? That is important in knowing how much to feed.
We never force the little ones at this age to eat if they keep turning their heads away, not right away at least. Actually, most will eat eventually, they may not take to the nipple or the syringe right away, then you have to fool around a little with it to get them started.
What I mean is if you give him 2 cc's and you think he should have 3, do not force it. Sometimes they like to be pottied while eating, so if you finish 1 cc, try stimulating him to go to the bathrooom, if he goes, then start feeding again.
You really need a gram scale to get an accurate amount to feed, and you also want to make sure that he is gaining weight and not losing.
Once you get the scale, the rule of thumb is to feed 5-7 percent of their body weight at every feeding.

This is pretty typical that there is no poop yet. Sometimes it takes a couple of days before they will go. If his tummy is not hard and bloated, you're good. You can give him gas x if you think he is bloated. I would say 2 drops every 4 hours is fine.

To me he looks good, but only you can tell if his tummy is hard, hard is not good.

Thank you for helping this little one, and I'm glad that you found us!

Brin

04-06-2013, 12:06 AM

That brings me great relief nancy thank you so much!
If you go the photobucket URL I posted there's some more pictures of his belly, it did seem bloated looking to me but maybe I'm just over concerned about him since he didn't go to the bathroom at all yesterday.
He is eating much more willingly now and he is having more frequent poop... Unfortunately it's diahrea...

Thank you guys for helping me, he's such a sweetie :) I want to post another picture but it's probably going to be to big so ill out on the photobucket :)

farrelli

04-06-2013, 12:32 AM

When you get the Fox Valley, that loose stool often clears right up.

Brin

04-06-2013, 12:57 AM

Okay thankyou,

He doesn't really feel hard to me, he just kinda feels like a balloon.
We do not have a gram scale, do you know how much those are or where to get them? I am a broke college student getting broker by the minute with this little dude haha That's okay though, I love him.
My Fox Valley should be here by Wednesday, until then should I just continue transitioning between the hydration and the formula?

My boyfriend will have him tomorrow since I'll be at work, he is dyslexic so he won't be posting on here tomorrow but he remembers everything I've read him.
I'll post again soon!

Right now his poops are really watery mustard yellowish but he is peeing now too! Not alot.. but he's peeing! whoohoo! :)

farrelli

04-06-2013, 01:02 AM

Yes, keep alternating.

Gram scales are just kitchen scales that you can find just about anywhere - Target, Walmart, many grocery stores. They usually toggle between metric and imperial. They're usually $10-20.

Brin

04-06-2013, 01:36 AM

Okay Thank you Farelli!

Brin

04-06-2013, 11:36 AM

OKay he had 2 1/2 cc's of the rehydration formula at 10:30pm, 3cc of GM formula at 2pm, and 1 1/2 of reyhdration at 6:45pm and now it's 9:30 and I'm trying to give him some GM formula but he DOES NOT want it... I spose I'll just hope he eats for my boyfriend while I'm at work today.

I am so thankful for all of you taking the time to help us, thank you again!

CrazySquirrelLady

04-06-2013, 04:01 PM

why does IR suggest alternating between feeding and hydration fluid for so long?

Isn't it time to just give formula every 4 hours? just wondering

farrelli

04-06-2013, 04:14 PM

When she gave that instruction, the skin tented for about five seconds.

island rehabber

04-06-2013, 04:49 PM

why does IR suggest alternating between feeding and hydration fluid for so long?

Isn't it time to just give formula every 4 hours? just wondering

He came in severely dehydrated. He was weak (dehydration), had no appetite to speak of (dehydration) and was constipated (dehydration). At this point it takes longer than a few hours to re-hydrate the baby, and rehydrating also boosts their appetite so they will take more formula at the next feeding.

Skul

04-06-2013, 06:03 PM

He came in severely dehydrated. He was weak (dehydration), had no appetite to speak of (dehydration) and was constipated (dehydration). At this point it takes longer than a few hours to re-hydrate the baby, and rehydrating also boosts their appetite so they will take more formula at the next feeding.
Just so Brin doesn't have to look for it.
After 24 hours, is a very dilute formula (3:1 or 4:1) recommended?
After a day, does Brin move to regular?
(questions and answers are for you, Brin)

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:15 AM

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:17 AM

Oh, and the formula mix I made this morning and that he's been eating all day is:
3 parts GM
1 part Stoneyfield nonfat Banilla yogurt
1 part water

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:18 AM

I'm not an expert, but I would, yes. The dehydration seems under control. How long has it been since he's pooped?

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:19 AM

And the rehydration formula is:
1 tsp salt
3 tsp regular table sugar
1 quart water

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:22 AM

If he's been on Pedialyte or your hydration fluid for 24 hours, you need to stop the salt.

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:25 AM

Okay, it wasn't pedialyte just that mix... should I feed him right now with the hydration but make a batch without salt? or formula?

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:26 AM

Well, he had diarrhea a lot yesterday. My boyfriend and I haven't seen him go at all today but my boyfriend said he saw what looked like some diahrea on his foot today

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:30 AM

Well, I just wanted to make sure that he wasn't getting impacted. As long as you don't think that there's a problem with constipation or bloating, I'd think that everything's a go.

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:31 AM

Uh oh, I'm out of sugar. It's 2:30a.m and I have to get up and drive to a meeting in another town at 8a.m... can I use Truvia?

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:33 AM

Here's a video of him eating earlier.. you can see his belly for a second, do you think he looks okay?
http://s181.photobucket.com/user/BrinM/profile/

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:36 AM

I wouldn't introduce anything artificial. Do you have any juice that you could dilute?

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:40 AM

Where's the video? I get a series of very tiny photos. I hate Photobucket and never know if it's misbehaving because I have a Mac or if it's just because PB is terrible.

Does his belly feel firm and round or like a partially filled water balloon?

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:41 AM

I have that cranberry juice still?

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:43 AM

Maybe just a bit of that to sweeten the water if he won;t take the water straight.

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:46 AM

it feels like a partially filled water balloon...
I know I don't like photobucket either, this is the first time I've used it since highschool haha but people didn't have facebook so I thought that might be better..

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x171/BrinM/th_Movieon4-6-13at1125PM_zpsc15d9509.jpg (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x171/BrinM/Movieon4-6-13at1125PM_zpsc15d9509.mp4)

Brin

04-07-2013, 04:50 AM

Oh haha by the way, I obviously forgot I was recording at that point and tried massaging his belly downward to get things moving since he still hasn't pooped for me and then decided to get him warm again while I got some more warm water haha Don't mind my baby voices haha

farrelli

04-07-2013, 04:57 AM

I think my Mac isn't compatible with some PB movies, like yours. Anyway, firm and round is bad, but a partially filled water balloon is good, so you're probably set.

Brin

04-07-2013, 05:00 AM

Oh shoot, I'm sorry I wish I could get it to work :/
Thank you so much Farelli!

island rehabber

04-07-2013, 06:38 AM

Good morning, Brin. Your little guy looks very good, considering what he's been through. As farrelli said, a "partially filled water balloon" is just the way we want a baby squirrel's tummy to feel after eating. :thumbsup
Don't obsess about the poops too much. Diarrhea is life-threatening; constipation is not, unless it goes for a week or more. My all-time record for a baby squirrel was from a Sunday night when she came in to a Thursday morning before her first poop. She was fine after that, grew up perfectly fine and was released :D.
You're doing a great job. You can get him up to full strength formula starting tonight and no need for the hydration in between.

Shewhosweptforest

04-07-2013, 12:22 PM

:multi :grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug Love the pics:thumbsupand good news all around:bowdown

Nancy in New York

04-07-2013, 01:17 PM

What size syringe are you using?
Such a sweet little squirrel, you're doing great! :)
Also why did you stop him from eating after the syringe was empty? Just asking, not being critical. You
can feed the little ones 5-7% of their body weight, and sometimes a little more if they
don't get hard tummies.

kastillo

04-07-2013, 01:22 PM

From the pictures and video, his belly looks fine to me. Just looks like a full tummy.

Brin

04-09-2013, 03:14 PM

Hi Everyone,

Petey's Fox Vally Milk got here yesterday and he's been LOVING IT! He's eating two full 3cc syringes each time, sometimes he wants more but we measured him and that seems to be the right amount. I am afraid of over feeding him as I've been informed the Easter Fox Squirrel is a chow hound! He is growing hair on his belly now :) I am wondering if his mom chews on his nails or if climbing trees keeps them trim or if it's okay to just let them be. He is getting more and more energy every day! The fur on his tail is also coming in beautifully :)

Spring Break is over so school is back in session and it's a bit crazy with my last month but I'll keep trying to update you all as much as possible!
He pee's ALOT but doesn't seem to poop very much at all...?

Also, in the video I went to the kitchen to warm so more up because I forgot to prepare a second one :)

farrelli

04-09-2013, 03:36 PM

His nails will be very sharp. You should just let them be. It'll prevent falling accidents. If you read the posts on this board, you will see tons of people talking about the little needles and having to wear loose clothing.

If you're only giving 3cc, then he must be a minimum of 60g, right? You should offer 5-7% body weight. Is he gaining? Also, are you using 1 part FV and 2 parts water?

I finally saw your video, so cute! :Love_Icon

Brin

04-10-2013, 03:02 AM

Oh yay I'm glad it worked Farrelli! Thankyou!

Yup is FV is two parts water and one part formula, and thanks for answering my nail question :)

He finally, about an hour ago just pooped a beaver dam! No more runny diarrhea! First they were brown soft stools and then softer nearly runny but mostly solid mustard colored ones.

His weight says he's about 68 grams, I guess that means I need to be giving him some more!

Brin

04-10-2013, 04:50 AM

Okay, last time I fed him he wouldn't eat more than 3ccs, and that was at 9:30, I went to feed him again just now and ate 1 and a half and does not take anymore. He just wants to be warm and sleep.... is this normal?

island rehabber

04-10-2013, 05:41 AM

Offer him some hydration, instead. (Maybe in about an hour) For whatever reason he may still be dehydrating, and that causes a loss of appetite. You'll want to get those fluids into him and then see if his appetite comes back when it's time for FV again.

Brin

04-10-2013, 11:51 AM

This morning he ate 3cc's but won't have anymore...

Brin

04-10-2013, 12:12 PM

Okay, can I give him pedialyte ? or would it be better to mix some up?

farrelli

04-10-2013, 12:14 PM

The salt probably wouldn't be good at this point. Just use water, or sweeten it if need be with sugar or juice.

1 quart warm water
3 Tbsp sugar (tablespoon)

Brin

04-10-2013, 01:16 PM

He only had half a cc :(

farrelli

04-10-2013, 01:20 PM

Is that FV or hydration? Is he weak? Is he active at all? Could you spell out your feeding schedule so that it can be more clearly analyzed? I want people more experienced than myself to weigh in. I'm starting to get worried.

island rehabber

04-10-2013, 02:39 PM

Brin, hold him right up to your ear. Do you hear wheezing, or clicking of any kind when he inhales and exhales?

Brin

04-10-2013, 04:19 PM

I am not hearing anything like that when I hold him up to my ear, he's been making little squirrel noises lately and he chirped randomly yesterday like he was in pain but he was fine, then he pooped a bunch.
And it was the sugar water that I gave him earlier which he had half a cc of.
I've been feeding him FV, he usually eats 6cc's everytime until yesterday.
last night at 10:30pm he had 2 1/2cc FV
2:30a.m 1 1/2 cc FV

(my alarm didn't wake me up) :(
9:30a.m - ecc FV
11:30a.m 1 cc sugar water

He just chirped a couple times again

I have seem him aspirate a few times (it's like impossible to prevent that, no matter how slow I go!) If there isn't a little bit coming he will loose interest and try to crawl out of my hands so it takes about an hour to feed him each time.

I hope he doesn't have pneaumonia ... I left a message to have a vet call me today

Brin

04-10-2013, 04:21 PM

I am preparing a syringe right now for him before I have to go to class until 4:30

I filled it with 1cc of sugar water and the rest with the FV formula ... is that an alright idea?

farrelli

04-10-2013, 04:35 PM

So it's just diluted FV? Can't hurt.

Brin

04-10-2013, 05:40 PM

He drank almost all of his 3cc syringe and then wouldn't open up. I've been having to kind of force his mouth open and then he's like "oh, okay i'll have some of this" ... and then he stops early and just curls up like he's cold

stepnstone

04-10-2013, 06:27 PM

Brin, hold him right up to your ear. Do you hear wheezing, or clicking of any kind when he inhales and exhales?

I am not hearing anything like that when I hold him up to my ear, he's been making little squirrel noises lately and he chirped randomly yesterday like he was in pain but he was fine, then he pooped a bunch.

I have seem him aspirate a few times (it's like impossible to prevent that, no matter how slow I go!)

:surrender Flags :surrender Flags :surrender Flags
I sure hope the little guy is not on a downhill spiral
a good AB could have stopped. :shakehead

Nancy in New York

04-10-2013, 06:29 PM

I was asked to take a look at this thread.
Can you post a picture of your little one.
I haven't read the whole thread, just skimmed it.
What kind of squirrel is this, and what is the age.
You have him on a heating pad, half under his container, right?
If you can post a picture that would help a lot.

Do you have access to any antibiotics, when you said that he aspirated, that is very concerning.
Let me know what you can get, and I will tell you how to dose.
Do you know of anyone that would have Cipro, that is a human antibiotic that we can dose.

Are you using a nipple when you feed, and what size syringe are you using?

SammysMom

04-10-2013, 06:30 PM

Maybe an AB would not be a bad idea at this point if it is readily available.:dono :Love_Icon :dono

farrelli

04-10-2013, 07:20 PM

Thanks for looking at this for me Nancy.

Cipro is very common and often prescribed for UTIs, so women in particular tend to have it. If you don't, please ask your friends, TONIGHT. He doesn't seem to be doing well and it's hard to say why. He may have an infection or pneumonia and these little guys tend to die very quickly if that's the case.

Brin

04-11-2013, 03:43 AM

200869

Thank you Farelli!
This is how he likes to be, just balled up like this... more than usual. His poop is a mustard white, not runny at all, very dry and solid..
What does that mean?
I also noticed he has little dry scabs behind his ears today and between his toes so I put some vaseline on a q-tip and massaged some in.

I don't know anyone who has medicine like that, I don't know where or how I would get it either. Also, what is an AB and where would I get that?
Yes, he has a heating pad half under his box.

He's not making any wheezing or clicking noises.

He has been drinking his 3cc's for the last two feedings... no more than that.
He lost a lot of weight in the last 48 hours, he was getting fat and now I can see his little ribs. It is heart breaking. The vet never called me back today.

He's also been doing a lot of twitching while he sleeps, and moving around sniffing alot, it seems like he's looking for food but he doesn't take it when I offer after 3 cc's ...
I had to take him to the journalism school with me all day where I brought his box, heating pad and had him all set up. I fed him and everything since I have to be at school for 14 hours a day, the dean was not very impressed haha
200870

Scooterzmom

04-11-2013, 04:04 AM

OMG... & Klunk!!! Soooo adorable. :Love_Icon

Brin: the white poop is usually a sign of overfeeding - becaise he has not had time to digest between feedings. However you say he's been losing weight, so that puzzles me. BTW AB means "antibiotics" :)

You said he takes only 3 cc's but how often do you feed him? How many hours apart? So, it might be that he would need his FV diluted a bit, or that you spread the feedings apart by another 30 minutes or 1 hour. If his poops are white, it means he has not had time to digest. If he doesn't digest, then he doesn't get thenutrion... see what I mean?

Now another thing... sometimes a baby will refuse to eat because he needs to potty or pee. When you reach that 3cc maybe you can try and stimulate him and then try again to offer more FV. Of course, don't forget to stimulate him... make sure he does potty and pee. :)

So, all in all, I suggest that you spread the feeding a bit more so he does digest his FV or that you dilute it. See how he responds to that but go with the assumption of what I described before... i.e. no digestion = no nutrition. Your job is to make sure he gets the nutrition out of his feedings. I know :osnap easier said than done.

Nancy in New York

04-11-2013, 07:39 AM

You need a small O ring syringe. The ones you have go way too fast and they are hard to control. I also think it may be a 3cc or a 5 cc, but it's too large for this little one.
Antibiotics (Abs.) as farrelli said Cipro is for humans, and mostly used to treat UTI's. Can you see if any of your friends have any. Also anyone that owns an animal, see if their pet has recently been put on abs.
We can dose for you if you have a weight.
Such a cute little one. Would you want us to try to find a rehabber to help you out?
In one of the videos from before I notices that you stopped him after the syringe ran out. Do you stop him from eating when the syringe is empty or do you refill? How often do you feed him and what amount?

Nancy in New York

04-11-2013, 07:46 AM

Hi everyone,
Thank you all so much for your continued help!
I had my boyfriend log his progress today, here it goes.
He had:
3cc of RF (Rehydration Formula) @12:30pm
2cc of GM (Goats Milk Forumla) @3:00pm
1 1/2cc of RF @5:00pm
2 3/4cc of GM @7:15pm
2cc of RF at 9:10pm
3cc of GM at 11:30pm

My boyfriend also said, he peed like crazy but no poop today. He said his urine was clear and healthy looking, not yellow.
His skin now stays tented for a second and a half.

Should I move forward with the GM now? He really seems to love it now haha

Brin I just saw this post, this is such a small amount of food/hydration for the complete day, this is about 14 cc's total for the day. Do you have a weight on him?

On April 4th the day you got him you estimated his age of 4 1/2 weeks. This is a little fox squirrel they usually run larger, my grey squirrels are roughly 100 grams at this age. ALSO their weight gain is typically 4-7 grams PER DAY. Something is not right here.

If a squirrel weighs 70 grams you would feed roughly 3.5 - 29.4 cc's every feeding. Say if you typically feed every 4 hours, that would be 6 feedings per a 24 hour period. So the squirrel would take a minimum of 21cc's up to 34.3cc's throughout the day.

Nancy in New York

04-11-2013, 07:59 AM

I know I keep putting different posts up but I just saw something else.
You just got the FV two days ago, did you do a transition. Did you slowly combine the two formulas or did you just start right onto the FV?

ASLO with FV it tends to stay in their tummies a little longer so he may not be hungry every 3 hours. I am just a little concerned as his weight of 68 grams seems very light for a fox squirrel of this age.

I hope some more people come on with suggestions. Has he had diarrhea a lot, it seems while skimming your thread this has been an issue for him from the beginning, is that right?
:grouphug

Brin

04-11-2013, 09:33 AM

Good Morning! He just ate 6cc's of FV and he weighed 2.67 oz afterwards.
I believe he is about 5 weeks old now

CrazySquirrelLady

04-11-2013, 10:07 AM

good to hear he is doing great. :D keep up the good work.

farrelli

04-11-2013, 10:11 AM

TubeDriver

04-11-2013, 11:23 AM

As Nancy just pointed out, he's not dong great. Far from it. Brin, please listen to Nancy, she really knows her stuff. Also please find some antibiotics. And lastly, seeing that he's not doing well and seems to be going downhill, would you want us to see if we can find an experienced rehaber in the area?

This^^^ Brin, you are clearly very attached to this little fellow and trying your best to help him out. But they can be very fragile at this age and go down hill VERY quickly. It is absolutely no reflection of your devotion to him to have an expert step-in to help out. I wish you both the best and hope the little guy improves. If he does have aspiration pneumonia, he will need to be started on Antibiotics (AB) ASAP.