Flying Squirrel Water Needs

[Deathdeisel]

Hello, im a newbie here. I looked around first and did a search, but wasnt really able to find any solid awnsers.

Me and my girlfriend bought 2 flying squirrels from a pet shop, they are about 2-1/2--3 months old, and are now intending to keep them for as long as we can. We know for the most part everything they need and already have it.

My only question is about water. We currently give them dried nuts and seeds, along with an apple slice or two cut up. For water they have a small water container we just pour water into, and the standard rodent/hamster water dripper or spring loaded water tube with the ball and tube system on the end.
Like this here: http://www.amazon.com/Super-Pet-Critter-Canteen-Bottle/dp/B001OTH6T4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361210032&sr=8-1&keywords=critter+canteen

With this it really seems like they arent drinking any water at all. If they are its a very very small amount, as in basically not measurable by human eye. So really im just concerned whether or not they are getting their needed water supply. Weve had them for 6 days now, and they seem to be acting fine but Im still concerned. Does anyone have any information on this?

[SammysMom]

:Welcome :Welcome :Welcome
We have a load of info that you will need!
Check out the flyer forum and ask lots of questions!
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=93

[Skul]

You'll find them to the most intertaining little monsters.
Three suggestions.
1) Take the ball/spring type watering tube out. It's possible for them to get their tongue caught.
We use just a plain parakeet water tube with that small trough that sticks inside the cage.
2) They do need green vegetables such as brocolli, snow peas, avacato, cucumber..etc. Keep fruit amounts fairly small.
3) They do require a fairly high protien diet. That means things like mealworms, waxworms, cooked chicken (and egg). Mine really enjoy drumstick bones.

[IrishHarps]

Hello!

One water dish that you change the water in daily is fine. They probably won't take well to the bottle. They are very little, so it probably doesn't look like they drink much.

Now about diet - the diet you have described is not ideal. These are the following things they need in their diet every day, in order to be healthy:

1) Protein (such as chicken)
2) Fresh vegetables
3) Yogurt (for calcium. Greek yogurt is preferred).
4) One rodent block per flyer (we prefer the Henry's Healthy Pets block around here, as they make one that is specially formulated to flyer needs)

Treats: no more than one very small (nickel sized) piece of fruit daily, about a half a nut or less each flyer per day (half pecan, walnut, etc), in shell nuts to give them something to gnaw on.

Specifically check out this page regarding flyer diet:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37700

They have very specific needs, since they are such little creatures. Diet is more important for them because they don't eat much.

Chuck out the hamster food. That is no good. If you got them from a pet store and that is what the pet store said to do, they probably don't know what they are talking about ;-)

I hope this helps and please let us know if you have other questions!

[Deathdeisel]

Wow completely different than what the pet store said. To be honest im not surprised, the lady kind of seemed to be saying yes to anything we said. She said lots of fresh fruits, and reccomended some kind of calcium powder to be mixed in their water for the calcium deposit.

Do you mean these in terms of pet blocks for them?
http://www.amazon.com/Henrys-Healthy-Blocks-Flying-Squirrels/dp/B005JURAYA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1361212464&sr=8-4&keywords=henrys+healthy+pets+block

Does the chicken need to be cooked? If so like, oven, grilled, deep fried, etc.?

And what kind of vegetables, any? Green beens, broccoli, etc?


Also I tried accessing the diet sheet for them, and the forum wont allow me to do so, says I dont have permission yet or something of the sort.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:Welcome :wave123
you hit paydirt by finding TSB... and SKUL is a go to guy...
he and his DW are both flyer geeks...
he knows flyers!!!
TSB has many flyer peeps...alot of great advise and threads..

there is sometimes a small wait period before all privledges are activated..
:wave123

edit... you can use a small shallow flat bottomed non plastic crock for water, weighted down with marbles or pebbles.
This also helps keep the babies from aspirating.
PS.. most accidental flyer deaths are from leaving the toilet lid open... best to make signs for the bathroom and also install a toilet ladder.

[Pnerissa]

I learned a long time ago to ignore everything the pet shop people have to offer and research it myself. That's how I found TSB and the NFSA (National Flying Squirrel Association.) As for my four flyers, everyone has water dishes & and I'll occassionally catch them drinking out of them. I've also noticed they like to lick water droplets off of their veggies (I rinse everything) when I offer them to them. Do your homework and keep fresh water in their cage (and play with them OFTEN!) :D

Bev

[IrishHarps]

Hey there!

Sounds like your pet store person was getting them confused with Sugar Gliders. Sugar Gliders look somewhat similar to Flying Squirrels, but they are marsupials and have very different needs. Sugar Gliders need lots of fruit and juices, for example.

Anyhow! Try checking out this page instead:
http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2931

That is the page on nutrition from the National Flying Squirrel Association. They are also a great reference :) You may be able to see it without being logged in... I'm not sure.

Oh also, they don't need supplementation in their water. A good diet will suffice :)

That link from Amazon is exactly what you need :) You can also order directly from Henry's Healthy Pets. They are a very friendly company (http://henryspets.com/).

If your grocery store has a salad bar section, personally I find it easy to just go there and fill up on what they have available, and also run around the produce section to throw in little odds and ends of things. Lettuce, broccoli, kale, carrots, cabbage, peas, endive, these are all great. Also chopped up avocado pieces (no pits or skin) will make them go wild! Since avocado oxidizes so quickly, I usually freeze the chopped pieces and just stick in a frozen piece with the nightly veggie buffet for my flyer. She always attacks that or the healthy block first :)

Chicken cooked pretty much any way is good ;-) Also give them the chicken bones too - they love chewing on those. Also try some hardboiled or fried egg for protein.

It will cost you maybe around $30 to get set up with proper nutritional foods. After that, it doesn't cost much to feed them (about $3 a week for veggie odds and ends, $12 a month for flyer blocks).

Let me know if you can't see the other nutrition page I linked you to - you'll want to check out a list of "good" and "bad" fruits and veggies before you go shopping, I'm sure!

[Deathdeisel]

Thanks for the help guys, I guess from now on I really will just have to ignore pet store associates recommendations. The lady I talked to said they basically had the same diet as sugar gliders.

Thanks for the great links, Ill definately check them out. Didnt know about apple skins, luckily our guys havent been eating the skins, and just at the good parts.

How long until they are considered old enough to eat their normal foods like grapes and apples without skinning them?

And how many blocks per squirrel should I be giving them?

Also one of you guys said to use a non plastic water container? Im currently using a clear plastic container that came with their cage, is this bad?

[Jackie in Tampa]

sometimes they chew plastic...
most will not ingest it, but there's always that chance...

[IrishHarps]

I just use a ceramic water bowl because flyers hop around a lot and mine could knock over a plastic one easily ;-) Little tiny ceramic bowls cost like $1 at Petco, so that's good.

For blocks, you only need one per flyer per day (since they are little).

I'm not sure at what age they are considered ok to eat things like grape skins... hmm... that would be a question for Skul.

Here is a nice breakdown of flyers vs. gliders from the National Flying Squirrel Association website. Feel free to print it out and take it to your pet store person ;-)

http://www.nfsa.us/flyer-or-glider-mainmenu-37

Nothing irritates me more than people who are supposed to know what they are doing with animals confusing a *rodent* with a *marsupial.* Sigh. It's not your fault - but definitely don't trust that person!

[Deathdeisel]

Hmm, mkay I will have to see if I can pick up a few of those bowls. And ill try to get ahold of those blocks pretty quickly, are those given with their normal food, or what?

And thanks for the link, good to know the major differences between these guys.

[IrishHarps]

Yes, it's ok to give them the blocks when you feed them normally.

Here is what I do, as far as daily feedings - other people may do things differently, but this is what has worked for me. You may have to adjust things to your schedule/pickiness level of your flyers :) :)

I feed mine a fresh bowl of water and a bowl of food every day. The food is an assortment of whatever I happened to pick up at the store that week, but always includes 1 healthy block (you would need 2, since you have 2 flyers), an assortment of veggies, protein, and small piece of fruit. The block only lasts for about 2 weeks in the fridge, so I freeze mine and pop it into her bowl straight from the freezer. They will last a lot longer that way.

My flyer is weird and she likes to lick yogurt off my finger, so I hand feed it to her every day (if I get lazy, I'll just put a little in a bowl for her, and she'll take it that way "if she has to.")

You may have to try a few things to see what they like. I think I had to try 5 different yogurt flavors before finding one my Momo liked (Trader Joe's Greek mango!), and sometimes they will like one veggie, sometimes not. Your life is now run by a squirrel ;-)

Some people microwave the block for a few seconds, some people crush it up with other stuff... just whatever works for you and your babies!

[IrishHarps]

Oh and in case you are curious.... my flyer has her own YouTube channel. Feel free to check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/momothesfs

[Deathdeisel]

Yes, it's ok to give them the blocks when you feed them normally.

Here is what I do, as far as daily feedings - other people may do things differently, but this is what has worked for me. You may have to adjust things to your schedule/pickiness level of your flyers :) :)

I feed mine a fresh bowl of water and a bowl of food every day. The food is an assortment of whatever I happened to pick up at the store that week, but always includes 1 healthy block (you would need 2, since you have 2 flyers), an assortment of veggies, protein, and small piece of fruit. The block only lasts for about 2 weeks in the fridge, so I freeze mine and pop it into her bowl straight from the freezer. They will last a lot longer that way.

My flyer is weird and she likes to lick yogurt off my finger, so I hand feed it to her every day (if I get lazy, I'll just put a little in a bowl for her, and she'll take it that way "if she has to.")

You may have to try a few things to see what they like. I think I had to try 5 different yogurt flavors before finding one my Momo liked (Trader Joe's Greek mango!), and sometimes they will like one veggie, sometimes not. Your life is now run by a squirrel ;-)

Some people microwave the block for a few seconds, some people crush it up with other stuff... just whatever works for you and your babies!

Haha thanks I was just about to ask about how to feed them yogurt. Im thinking maybe I should just get them seperate food trays, but who knows how that will go. So far plastic wise I havent seen any chewing, but as soon as I do Ill go and replace them.

My life being run by a cute squirrel huh? Not so bad. These guys are finally starting to warm up to me, and will now play in their cage even if im awake and active. Glad to see they are getting used to me and my sounds now.
:jump

Ill just have to try the whole yogurt and healthy blocks and see how they enjoy it.

[IrishHarps]

Yeah there is a term for people who 'have' flyers - "HOF" - it means "Human Owned by Flyer" :D

Do you have bonding pouches? Are you familiar with how to go about the proper bonding process? Proper bonding will get them attached to you for life.

[Deathdeisel]

Umm to be honest im not sure of the procedure. I do have bonding pouches, Ive basically been carrying them around with me on my everyday activities at home. Usually around 3 or so hours, by around 4-5 hours they start to get fussy and start vocalizing at me. Surely cursing me.

[Garden71]

There are people here that make bonding pouches. Jackie in Tampa makes all different things for our little one's just PM her. And Milo's Mom makes stuff too here's a link http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37850.

[IrishHarps]

Here is a great article on flyer bonding off the NFSA website - read up and let me know if you have any questions!

http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=205


Basically, you will need to keep them on you as much as possible. In the night time, when they become active, you can have them out in a small enclosed, and flyer proofed, room, such as a closet, bathroom, or tent (if you have one you can set up indoors). This will allow them to play and explore but still be near you at all times.

These first few weeks are the most critical in their development, and the most important time for you to bond with them as much as possible. If you want them to bond to you and your girlfriend, she will need to spend just as much time with them. Even so, it is possible that they will 'take' more to one person.

One more thought - make sure the room you let them out in is totally flyer proofed - they can get through any space more than 1/2 inch wide, so you will need to check things like heating vents, baseboards, and pipes very carefully for possible openings. For me what worked best was proofing one room at a time. Rooms that are basically impossible to flyer-proof, such as the kitchen, are closed off by a door at all times when the flyer is out.

I hope that this helps :)

[IrishHarps]

Oh and yes, they can be very vocal ;-) mine didn't find her voice until she was about a year old, but now she knows that when she cheeps, mommy and daddy come a runnin'! She has us trained good.

[Deathdeisel]

These guys sure can be picky. Tried bonding with them tonight, and they really didnt want me bugging them, or wanted out. The adventurous one kept trying to get out, and when I sealed the bag he started shouting at me lol.

I would let them out in my room to play, but they really dont even like being near me still... :shakehead And in terms of flyer proofed room, that would be the bathroom, and I dont want them even near the toilet. I tried the glider leash, but again they hate being held by me so its not even possible.

So do you guys think this is a good diet for them? Its, cherry tomato, lettuce, sweet potato, chicken, and cucumber.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130222_000249.jpg
Anything Im missing? Tried yogurt last night and they really didnt want any of it, and kind of left everything alone with yogurt on it. Is there a particular flavor they usually like?

[Pnerissa]

Nuts are a treat and should be given after they eat their veggies. All of my squirrels get their veggies in the early evening and when I wake up in the morning I give them their nut (1 nut.) On a side note, lettuce has next to no nutritional value so I'd probably swap it out with something healthier like a sugar snap pea or a brussell sprout.

Bev

[IrishHarps]

I agree with Pnerissa for the most part, and I'd add to make sure you cook the sweet potato too. I think I read somewhere that it's not good for them uncooked.

As far as the bonding - just keep on trying! They will not like you right off the bat - you just need to be with them as much as possible and it *will* happen. Grab a magazine, put them in a small room with you (so that they have to go to you for entertainment and treats) and just hang out for a few hours. It will happen, I promise :) You just have to put the time in.

If the lid is down on the toilet, the bathroom is a good place to be in for bonding. If you are still worried, make a toilet ladder, keep the lid down, and it will be fine :) Here is info on making a toilet ladder: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16111&highlight=toilet+ladder+flyer

[Deathdeisel]

That would explain for why the potatoes havent been eaten if at all. Any preference on how they should be cooked?

Thanks for the help, ill try a few different things.

[Skul]

Mine aren't real fond of sweet potatoes either. We found that nuking them in the micro for 15 seconds, helps a little. They seem to eat squash pretty good if treated the same way.
Just remember, the yellow vegetables are usually high in Vit A, and should be fed in very small amounts.
The nuts you have are fine. It's good that you left them in the shell, as that also helps their teeth, and they don't eat them exclusively.
Just wait till you find your first flyer opened fibert nut. :rotfl

To possibly help with bonding, you might consider getting some FoxValley 32/40, and syringe them. Due to their age, they will probably fight you over the process. Once they get a taste of it for a few days, they may take to it.

Flyers by their nature, aren't real cuddlebugs. They will tolerate petting and such for a short time, then off they go. Put some filberts in your pants pockets and shirt pockets. Let them hunt and find them. Stuff the squirrels in your shirt, let them run around in there. (try to hold a little still, it tickles)
Just don't be fidcouraged and get frustrated if they don't do what you want. You have to do what they want.

[Deathdeisel]

So far my little guys are very particular, they wont eat tomatoes, sweet potatoes, cucumber, carrots, or strawberry flavored yogurt. They will however eat the yogurt, only by force, if I give them some apple peices dipped in it. Ate some small pieces of chicken last night.

So far I havent really been able to hold them without it being by force. Such as when capturing them to get them back in their cage or to get them out of hairy situations.

The idea of the sryinge I'm sure would help bond, but really its impossible to hold them with one hand, they shag ass out of my hands ASAP.

So far their personalities are polar opposite. One is very adventurous, the other if let out will hide in a corner until we (attempt) to pick him up and put him back in. The adventurous guy is starting to take to me.
For some reason they both seem to love my camoflauge shirt, im guessing because it looks kinda like a tree.
The adventurous one: Kind of gold brown color
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130222_223108.jpg

Hidy hole, hes more of a grayish brown and black:
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130222_223048.jpg

[IrishHarps]

Oh they are so cute!!! Yes, they are picky little buggers... you just have to pretty much feed them as much variety as you can and let them figure out what they like (then they will change their minds the next week anyways!)

Skul is right - they won't ever be 'held.' They are prey animals and it's an uncomfortable feeling for them. They will express love by playing on you and jumping to you. It's incredibly difficult to get them to be still. They are 'hyper' by nature.

To other squeeps - these guys don't look like babies to me? They look at least a few months old, looking at the tails. What do you guys think?

[Deathdeisel]

According to the pet store they were 2-1/2 months old, so 3 months now.

Hows this for a diet? Brussel sprout leaves, avocado, green beans, winter snap peas/snow peas, hard boiled egg, lime insides, and cilantro leaves.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130226_001632.jpg

And for calcium, greek apricot something yogurt, with green beans, avocado, and a few pieces of egg all poking out.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130226_001842.jpg

[IrishHarps]

I think you're doing a great job and really trying :-) Big props to you!

Did you order the Healthy Blocks yet? I think that is the only thing that is 'missing.'

Thank you for being awesome and trying very hard to do what is best for your babies, and listening to the advice of others. You wouldn't believe how many people don't!

How is the bonding going? It's so much fun once they are fully bonded... but then again it makes it really hard to do things like go to the bathroom when there is a squirrel sandwiched to you as soon as you get up ;-)

[Deathdeisel]

Haha thanks. Unfortunately my babies arent happy with anything I fed them :( I ordered the healthy blocks last night, and they shipped today.

They didnt even touch their food basically last night, really the only thing they ate was a very small amount of avocado. And even then they only nibbled. Is it because I didnt give them any nuts? I try to seperate the foods, because otherwise they will only eat the nuts for the most part. Any ideas?

Actually as a matter of fact, I dont remember them coming out at all last night. Usually within 10min of me turning the lights out for my bed time, they are out playing, but last night I didnt even hear them. :(

[IrishHarps]

It's ok - if they aren't used to it they will turn up their noses. But they won't starve themselves forever :) That's pretty normal. Don't give in and be strong!

You can keep trying other veggies also if you like, but keep only giving them the 'good stuff' until they eat it. Then you can work the treats back in. What you are experiencing is perfectly normal - flyers are really picky and obstinate. Good luck :D

[Deathdeisel]

Okay thats good to hear, I was worried maybe I put something in there with it that they hate. So dont give them any nuts basically until they eat the healthy stuff?

[IrishHarps]

In shell is ok, so that they have something to grind their teeth down on, but out of shell treats I would hold off on until they are used to a good diet.

You are doing great :) Can't wait to see more pictures!

[Deathdeisel]

Dinner for last night
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130228_031900.jpg

What was left this morning :shakehead :dono
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/Deathdeisel/20130228_135834.jpg

they ate a few pieces, but there are multiple pieces in the cage..It really seems like that ate only a few bites. They drank only 1mm of water over the last day.

[IrishHarps]

I just messaged you with Mrs. Skul's number - she is the resident 'flyer expert' and can talk you through what to do here. She is very friendly and a great resource - please give her a call. She'll tell you what to do :)

[Deathdeisel]

All of this diet is post her reccomendations. :( :dono

[IrishHarps]

I know :) She is just good to talk to and get advice and help with staying strong and feeding the right foods.

How have they been eating? The only other thing I can suggest is just keep trying new things. They are picky as heck. Go to the produce section of the grocery store and just grab bits and pieces of everything you can find!

Just to let you know you have good company, for example, Momo won't really touch hardboiled eggs, but if I fry them up, she'll gobble them up. She doesn't like Chobani or Oikos, but she'll eat Yoplait and Traders Joes yogurts. It's just process of elimination until you figure out what they love :)

Some days they are just pickier than others, too. Some days Momo will clean out her bowl, other times it looks like she only ate one or two things. Who knows why? :dono

Also, depending on what part of the country you are in, you can start bringing in spring foods from outdoors - maple branches with leaves, oak branches, acorns (even green acorns!). They love all these things.

One other nice thing is that all this can inspire you to get healthier too! When you buy fruits and veggies for yourself, you can cut off a bit and save it in a container for flyer dinner; see what takes.

[Skul]

That's what I'm talkin' about. :thumbsup
Just a nice variety of greens for them to chose from.
Let them pick and poke around.

If that was pineapple in there, cut the amount in half. Too much sugar.