getting concerned about Peanut

[pappy1264]

I have to get pics (will add them later) but he is loosing more fur. He has gotten several of those weird 'sores' (I had thought it was a spider bite, but now I don't think that is it, I have checked mulitiple times for any spiders and I cannot imagine he has been bitten over and over again. He has had 5 of them so far. I put neosporin on them and they clear up.) He does scratch but not alot. His feet have lost fur, the tops of his thighs, his whole underside in the groin area, as well as a few spots on his shoulders.. Last year, he lost fur in spots too. I did treat with Revolution, and am thinking of doing that again, even though he isn't itchy. they are not red or scabby. He eats a good diet (although I was a little generous with nuts, so have cut way back to only a couple a day). He eats both hhb's and mazuri rodent block, greens, avocado (his fav), snap peas, blueberries, cucumber, white sweet potato, cranberries, a few times a week pomegranite, mushrooms. He can be picky but the one thing he eats every day is his hhb's (he loves them, gets at least 2 a day, sometimes 3). I am wondering if this has to do with light. I am thinking of getting a light for parrots to see if it helps. It seems to be a winter thing (does not look like a molt, it is bald to the skin). Although he is not showing any other symptoms of MBD, and his diet is good, has anyone see fur loss as a symtom of MBD? I have not, but want to make sure this is not what I am seeing. I have noticed he does seem to be 'slipping' on certain articles of clothes (like jeans, he seems to slip a bit when running up my leg sometimes, although I have not cut his nails.) Should I mix up some tums? I also put Now Calcium on his food a few times a week. Anyone have any ideas?

[SammysMom]

Maybe dry skin spots? What about trying a humidifier in the room with him? Also Sammy gets flax seeds on his salad and they seem to give his coat a nice feel. I suspect the oil is helping is skin too. :grouphug Peanut:grouphug

[pappy1264]

They don't feel dry, or scabby. The skin gets pretty pink when he is/has been running around (like in these pics) but when he has been quiet and resting, they are flesh colored (although the groin and feet do always have some pink in them.) Here is a link to photobucket for the pics. I also did three videos to show how he is moving (like the wind...lol).

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/pappy1264/

(oops, videos didn't download, will try downloading those again, but here are the pics. Please take a look.) TY!

[pappy1264]

They don't feel dry, or scabby. The skin gets pretty pink when he is/has been running around (like in these pics) but when he has been quiet and resting, they are flesh colored (although the groin and feet do always have some pink in them.) Here is a link to photobucket for the pics. I also did three videos to show how he is moving (like the wind...lol).

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/pappy1264/

(oops, videos didn't download, will try downloading those again, but here are the pics. Please take a look.) TY!

[Garden71]

Get well soon Peanut. :Love_Icon

[CritterMom]

If you get lights, don't bother with "parrot lights" because they are completely useless and do NOT emit any UV. All they do is make the feather colors look pretty because of the color of the light (yeah, OTT, I'm talking about YOU).

The ONLY lamps that will help with Vitamin D metabolizing are the reptile lamps. Get yourself a T5 fluorescent fixture - 4 foot is best and cheapest both for fixture cost and lamp cost - and then go to petmountain.com to order the reptisun 10 lamps: http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/11442-504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10-0-uvb-bulb.html 4 foot T5 2 lamp fluorescent shop light fixtures are less than $25 at Lowes and have a plug end on them.

If you can't do the fluorescents I suggest you don't do anything - the compact fluorescents are so bright they can damage eyes (because they are a concentrated spot instead of light all along a tube).

I had terrible trouble with P's coat this past year - he looked so motheaten I quit taking pics of him. I got 2 of the reptisuns and put them over his pancaking shelf and he is looking wonderful now.

[pappy1264]

Thank you so much Crittermom!!! I will try that. I may still get the revolution just in case (although I would think he would be scratching more if it were that kind of issue, but who knows.) Videos are downloading, so you can see how he moves (like a darn lighting bolt! lol)

Woohoo, I also just signed up for emails from them and they are going to send me a 'free shipping code', so even better!

[djarenspace9]

I had a squirrel that came to me with infection and the antibiotic did not heal her, but noone knew.
For the next few years she'd have sores that were eruptions of the infection that was systemwide.
The vets assumed it was a dermal issue and kept going that route for treatment.

The only way that was diagnosed was by doing labwork and cultures.
It confirmed the type of infection and the proper treatment course.

I'd encourage you to do so asap.
I was on my third vet by the time they thought to do that and stop thinking it was a dermal issue.

[pappy1264]

He has been here a year and a half. The sores just started in the past month or so. I had taken a pic and posted a while ago. Someone suggested a skin scrap. He has no open sores now, but the spot on his right shoulder had been one. Did you squirrel have sores/infection when he came in? Peanut never has had anything like that.

here are the three videos:

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/pappy1264/?action=view&current=048-1.mp4

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/pappy1264/?action=view&current=047.mp4

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/pappy1264/?action=view&current=046.mp4

[djarenspace9]

She had been in rehab a long time due to a back injury.
I adopted her when she needed a forever home.
She was my first forever squirrel Missy (her photo is up there on the top left :Love_Icon)
Unfortunately the infection just sort of hung out inside her at it was at least 6 months in my care before she started having hair loss and then the sores started a few months later.
We wasted another 4 months in trying to identify a skin issue that was not the root of the problem.
By the time the sores became big and scary and vet number 3 got on the right track a lot of time was wasted.

I hope that is not the case with Peanut, but please rule that out if you can.

[pappy1264]

Please tell me would a skin scrap cover or find this? Or do I have to wait for another sore and then have a scrap done on that? I love him and would die if anything happened to him. I just want him to be ok. Bloodwork as well?

[djarenspace9]

The infection was confirmed with a skin biopsy, but the subsequent labs were done with just swab of the sores.
I don't know if there is another way to confirm infection, but I doubt a skin scrape would do it.
The initial vet visits they did skin scrapes and cultures (looking for a skin issue) but those were not looking for infection so it never came up.
Best to ask a vet or vet tech what are the options to confirm if there is a systemic infection.
It might even appear with a swab of the nostrils or inside his mouth? :dono

And please don't let me terrify you with my story,
but after dealing with that for several years I am very suspicious
when there are lesions or sores or things that aren't normal displaying
on a squirrel.
I like to rule out infection if there is any possibility that is the cause.

[pappy1264]

One thing over time that has come and gone with Peanut, he tends to sneeze quite a bit. No discharge and it is not all the time, but seems worse when he gets excited and it jumping around. He has had this off and on for quite a while. But I wasn't overly concerned (it is not a real lot, but none of my others sneeze so I notice it with him.) Could this have anything to do with it (when you mentioned the nostrils, made me think of this.) Remember Peanut developed a cataract out of the blue last year in his left eye, as well.

[djarenspace9]

I figure if there is infection it may be tested with any type of body fluid, but your vet may want a blood test. No idea what is the most effective way to test, without being invasive. I'd rather go for a swab of something personally, but labwork is pricey so you definitely want to make sure whatever sample they use will be conclusive.

[pappy1264]

Ok, will speak to my vet. Did you watch the videos? So you don't believe this is MBD, right? I never have seen this as a symptom in it, and he surely does not act like he had it, but I worry about that always. Thank you!

[djarenspace9]

I hadn't watched the videos yet, was working but will watch them now.
I just wanted to suggest the labwork cause of my experience,
where there were lots of things assumed and suspected just by observing symptoms that were deceiving.

[pappy1264]

Thank you, I will talk to my vet. Did you get a chance to watch the videos?

[djarenspace9]

I did see the videos, he is so super-cute and fun!
Other than that I couldn't tell much of anything else :D
He was moving too much! :rotfl

[pappy1264]

I know, he's a zoom monster! But sweet as all get out. I love him so much and just want to make sure he is healthy and ok. So don't think he has MBD zipping around like that (he is like that ALL THE TIME!)

[island rehabber]

He sure doesn't get checked off in the "lethargic" category, so we can rule that out! :D
Mary, are there ever tiny bumps in the bald patches on his skin? I'm wondering about some type of pyoderma or skin staph infection.....treatable with anti-bacterial baths. Otherwise I agree with karen; you may have to really get him some testing to make sure it's not something internal with him. He is just adorable!

[pappy1264]

No bumps. The sores just pop up, they are a round red spot that sort of oozes, I put neosporin on it and they clear up in a few days. He never scratches at them either. I will speak to my vet and go from there. Thank you, he is the love of my life!

[island rehabber]

Pappy what about ringworm? Round & red and oozy sounds like it......hit them with some spray Desitin and see if that helps. My pal Flo here in NYC had two with ringworm come in this summer and that cleared them right up. (Careful, it's zoonotic and you can get it from him.)

[pappy1264]

Oh, didn't think of that! How do you test for that? He has always had this wierd fur loss thing off and on, his testicle have been bald for most of the time although after I used the revolution, the fur grew back. Would revolution work on that? I only did one dose, so now I wonder if I should have done several doses over time? Never had any with an issue and needed to use it. I would think if it were roundworm with my handling him all the time, I would have been exposed to it already? I don't have any weird spots or sores, though (is that what happens in humans? I have no clue...:shakehead )

[pappy1264]

Found my original thread on when he got the first one, with pics. this is what they look like. The bald spot on his shoulder was like this, too. It isn't in the exact spot, but was very close looking at the these pics. But he also had two on the other side this time, as well (one on shoulder, one on side, almost near the armpit area.)

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37709

[Chickenlegs]

The early owes look like actual wounds--scrape, bump, poke--however a sweet squirrel can hurt himself but the blur in the recent video doesn't look like he's hurt himself. if it was something like excema, allergies or all the other stuff people and our fuzzers can get looks like it would itch like crazy. A blood panel SHOULD rule out something systemic. Vet can rule out ringworm too (maybe Revolution is "supposed" to prevent that but I wouldn't rule it out). So after exhausting all the other possibilities, what if that gorgeous little hunk of squirreldom has sensitive skin? In which case go check out Flash's thread. Amy wrestled with that sweeties skin problems his whole life and there's some good info there.

[pappy1264]

Thank you. I do remember the skin issues Flash had, will go reread that thread. I will see what my vet thinks and which way he thinks we should go with this. He does itch, but certainly not excessive or alot.

[Squirrel Girls Mom]

IMO, it sounds like a systemic bacterial infection manifesting itself with skin eruptions. "Round red spot that sort of oozes" is a classic sign.

[pappy1264]

Would a systemic bacterial infection also explain the hair loss he has been having too? Although he did get strange sores, most of the places that you see in the pics are just fur loss, there was not a sore in those spots (*only place was a bald spot on his right shoulder area). He seems a bit more itchy tonight. I cleaned the heck out of his cage yesterday, all bedding washed, cage scrubbed down, stuffies all washed. He is a bit quiet today too. My vet is on vacation until next week. I am wondering if I should get some revolution and just try that and see if it helps (it shouldn't hurt, right?) Ugh. I hate he isn't feeling well, its breaking my heart!

[SammysMom]

Poor little dollie... Feel better Peanut! :Love_Icon Peanut:Love_Icon

[djarenspace9]

Would a systemic bacterial infection also explain the hair loss he has been having too? Although he did get strange sores, most of the places that you see in the pics are just fur loss, there was not a sore in those spots (*only place was a bald spot on his right shoulder area). He seems a bit more itchy tonight. I cleaned the heck out of his cage yesterday, all bedding washed, cage scrubbed down, stuffies all washed. He is a bit quiet today too. My vet is on vacation until next week. I am wondering if I should get some revolution and just try that and see if it helps (it shouldn't hurt, right?) Ugh. I hate he isn't feeling well, its breaking my heart!
Actually, while waiting for the initial cultures to come back, my vet had me do Revolution and SMZ as a precaution. She figured it would take care of any minor but common causes and would not harm to treat with these if unnecessary. I would still cover all the bases! :thumbsup

[bobby taylor]

Mary, Do these sores show up one at a time or does he have several active sores at the same time? Will one break out then go away and later repeat it the same way, or are ther several actice sores going on at the same time?

[pappy1264]

One sore at a time. Is the systemic bacterial infection contagious? Because I just was giving them (Peanut, Angel and Max) their nighttime nut, and Angel, who is in the same room as Peanut, although on the other side, also is loosing fur on her feet and belly too. What is going on???? They eat well. She is not itching either. My flyers are also in the same room, none of them have any fur loss. Max is fine (he does have a little molt going on, but not what Peanut, and now seemingly Angel, have. Btw, she does not (or has not) had any sores. HELP! I will get a pic of her feet/belly tomorrow in the daylight so it will show.

[djarenspace9]

I want to be clear that I am in no way suggesting Peanut has a serious or systemic infection.
I really don't want you to be so worried about him Mary.

It is not our place as distant observers to diagnose something like that.
My intention in suggesting the labwork is to rule out something serious,
because it could be so many minor things but if it were to be something worse it might be overlooked.
I just hope to spare you from having the experience I did, but not to raise alarm by any means.

[pappy1264]

No, I appreciate any input, to bring to my vet. I wonder if the fur loss is a seperate thing from the sores? As I just posted, tonight, I noticed a bit of fur loss on Angel's back feet and her tummy (which she does not 'show' much). She has not been scratching at all that I have seen (Peanut is a bit itchy). I am wondering if I should do the revolution on them both (with Angel having neuro issues, would that be a problem? I can ask my vet but he won't be back until next week, but can still get the revolution.) I am a bit stressed. My bunny, Mr. Wiggles, has been ill (cannot really find a reason, but he has gone off food, so been having to handfeed and am battling stasis in him now! So my mind is all over the place. He is no where near the squirrels, just so you know.)

[Garden71]

Hope tomorrow brings better news from the gang :Love_Icon .

[sid'smommy]

Im pretty sure this is a fungal infection. ringworm would definately be my first guess. It would cause sores, hairloss, and would become red and inflamed with increased activity (like a histamine reaction). Prairie dogs are sometimes "carriers" of ringworm. To test for a fungal infection, get sore anti-fungal ointment (or cream if no ointment available), like for athletes foot...(terbinafine, clomitrazole) find an area on the belly where there are no open sores and its a larger area to view. . . rub a very thin layer of ointment right in the middle of the large area, about the size of the tip of your finger. Do this before he goes to sleep to lessen the chances of him licking it off. The next day, after he plays and gets red in all these areas, look at that spot.... it should be lighter red, if not normal color. . (might need about 3 applications in a day to notice)
This wont cure the infection overnight, but might alleviate the symptoms enough to help in diagnosis. Its probably systemic, and would need a pill to like difflucan or sporonox to get rid of it, since I doubt the squirrleys will stand for a 3 time a day ointment treatment, and all that fur... eww.
Hopefully this works, and saves you from some expensive labs and/or vet bills :)

[JLM27]

Pappy, I'm worried too:( Kiss Angel for me, but watch out if its ringworm!

[pappy1264]

I wonder if Neeko could have had it? He was in the same room. Is there another treatment for ringworm? Or a test for it?

[pappy1264]

Been reading up on ringworm (nightmares, anyone). Interestingly, not that I need to share, but been battling a bout of athletes foot on my left foot. Could I have given it to my squirrels? Would that be the same fungus???? (I wash my hands if I have touched my foot). Should I pick up some desitin and see if it helps? I really believe this may be what I am dealing with in them (and I have touched Peanut then touched Angel w/o washing my hands, so I could have spread it to her, correct?) Ok, being a squirrel what is safe to use on them and works the best for roundworm? My concern is him licking anything I put on him off. Could he take pills (crushed and added to fluids)? Ugh. Has anyone dealt with ringworm in a squirrel before? What did you do????

[djarenspace9]

In terms of ointments please be careful with what you apply on a squirrel,
since they groom and the ingestion can make them sick.
I am not sure about the people creams being safe for ingestion.

I remember that when Missy had the fur loss and we were still trying to identify
the cause, my vet at the time gave me Tresaderm to apply topical (it is liquid).
It is a fungicide and parasiticide and has anti inflammatory qualities too.
It was the other think we did just in case it cured the problem.

It is commonly used with cats for ear issues like yeast or mites, so although it's prescription you may have some or know someone who does. :dono

[stosh2010]

Praying for PEANUT....wish I had some MAGIC advice...I just have GOOD THOUGHTS....

[pappy1264]

Would a skin scrape diagnose if it were ringworm? Goodness, have never dealt with anything like this before. Maybe I have lucky.

[djarenspace9]

Yes, a skin scrape can be used to diagnose ringworm. :thumbsup

[pappy1264]

Ok, maybe I should start there. If not ringworm, then perhaps bloodwork is in order (but I am thinking with Angel now having small amount of fur loss, but following the same pattern, feet and underbelly, makes sense). Thank you. At least if it is ringworm it is treatable! Thanks guys!

[sid'smommy]

Athletes foot is a fungus, but not really the same thing. I dont think desitin is an antifungal ...??? I dont believe an otc cream will hurt them at all. Maybe find an area that they can lick easily.

[pappy1264]

Unfortunately, most of the bald areas are at the back end/belly, so he can easily reach them to lick anything off.

[djarenspace9]

This is the Rat Guide page about ringworm and it does recommend some anti fungal creams that can be applied.

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/ectoparasites.php

Rats are meticulous groomers so I would imagine if it's safe for them, it would be safe for squirrels.
The only thing is that the ointments made for humans may have stuff added
to make it more pleasing to us, that the animal one's don't have (since we don't tend to lick ourselves).

[pappy1264]

Strange, when I clicked on the link, did not see anything about ringworm? Saw mites, lice, fleas, etc.

[pappy1264]

I did a search on the site, found pics. the fur loss is actually in a 'ring'. Is that always the case? If so, this isn't what I am seeing on Peanut. :thinking

[djarenspace9]

Oooops wrong page!

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/dermatophytosis.php

[djarenspace9]

Their site is hard to search and find the right pages.
I usually go via Google and type the word rat and the condition and
usually the Rat Guide page that corresponds comes up as a result.
If I try searching within the site I can never get the page I am looking for.

:dono

[pappy1264]

The thing is, none of the bald spots are scabby or scaly. they are smooth. The sore was 'wet' then dried, scabbed and went away in a few days (after putting neosporin on it). Would ringworm cause loss of fur, but have no scabbing or scaling of the skin? I know, need my vet (why are they always on vacation when I need them!)

[Chickenlegs]

This is JUST a suggestion in the event you're getting blood work. Don't give him anything for a few days. Don't want to skew the results. The suggestions are good but next week is only a couple of days away and don't want anything in his system that could mask problems. Also--about Desitin--it's a diaper ointment and has Zinc oxide in it. It's great for urine scald IF it can't be licked off. It's really thick gooey stuff that protects skin from moisture and sooths and helps raw areas heal with no stinging or burning. Don't think it'll do a thing for ringworm tho. Get better babies! Be nice if the fur loss could be pegged on ringworm.

[Nancy in New York]

(I wash my hands if I have touched my foot). Should I pick up some desitin and see if it helps?

I think you mean Desenex pappy. Unless you have diaper rash......:poke :D

[pappy1264]

lol....you are correct! (Not that I have diaper rash! lol) Getting sick, so my mind is a little messed up. I just want my boy ok! He is acting fine, just looks a hot mess!

[pappy1264]

Ah-ha....this is Maura's post, I just copied it (where I got the Desitin from...lol)

Pappy what about ringworm? Round & red and oozy sounds like it......hit them with some spray Desitin and see if that helps. My pal Flo here in NYC had two with ringworm come in this summer and that cleared them right up. (Careful, it's zoonotic and you can get it from him.)

[Nancy in New York]

Ah-ha....this is Maura's post, I just copied it (where I got the Desitin from...lol)

Pappy what about ringworm? Round & red and oozy sounds like it......hit them with some spray Desitin and see if that helps. My pal Flo here in NYC had two with ringworm come in this summer and that cleared them right up. (Careful, it's zoonotic and you can get it from him.)

Hmmmmmmm wonder why Maura has desitin on the brain..........Hmmmmm:dono :thinking :dono

[pappy1264]

lol.....

[Itchiku's dad]

I notice that both you and CC posted on lisak 37's thread about hair loss. The thing that stood out to me was lisak 37 is feeding Mazuri, your feeding HHBs and Mazuri for late night nibbles, and CC was feeding Mazuri but stopped and now feeds HHBs.

Could it be something in the Mazuri, or some kind of food allergy?

[Runestonez]

I am just putting this out there...
but you said this happened last year too? Around the same time as this year?
We had something similar happen to our girl last year...
it started with bald spots on her haunches and progressed to the insides of her thighs and lower tummy...
we were getting a bit worried...but she def didn't have mites, fleas or anything of that nature.
The skin was healthy and her behavior was normal.
Then it began again this year...only this time I noticed it started right around the time she started to get grumpy and hormonal.
For our squee I am putting the baldness down to breeding season and hormones.
Just an idea.:)

[pappy1264]

His personality has not changed, he is my sweet boy, thankfully! It is much worse then it was before, though. It got better after I used the revolution, but only did one time. I am thinking I may try the revolution again on him and Angel (since she has it now, too). Max does not, nor do any of my overwinters who are downstairs. My vet is supposed to be back this week, so will see what he thinks. Thank you.