PDA

View Full Version : Discussion: Why We Promote Fox Valley, etc



sage4dylan
10-10-2012, 10:40 AM
With such an adverse group of people as there are on TSB there is bound to be difference of opinions, what I have found to be personally disturbing is the lack of tact among some expressing that difference. What one may have to say could be very valid AND important, but I feel it gets lost in translation when its foundation is laid on the attack of another member.

Read, Understood and Agree! :thumbsup5


This is so true. I don't know if some on here do not realize how they come off to other ppl. For one, they should READ and TRY TO UNDERSTAND everything stated in the post before commenting. It would cut out alot of unnecessary confusion. Everyone does things differently. I have only been here a month and have seen some ppl post to this board truly needing help and be ridiculed for things they did not know or things they did when they are trying to get help. :shakehead :ohthedrama It will end up costing some poor animal it's life because they don't want to post and get the proper help because of the way they are spoken to when they do. I know ppl have their own opinions, just as I have mine. Some don't think squirrels should be kept as pets and some don't want to release them... this is also a sore spot I see but it is in the rules to keep those opinions to yourself EITHER way. Just my opinion.

island rehabber
10-10-2012, 10:59 AM
Good points, sage. One thing I have noticed in the 6 years I've been a member of this board is that twice a year, things get really tense. It corresponds with the baby seasons in the northern half of this country. While the south has babies all year 'round, rehabbers up north have a frenzy in April and another in August (the "A" months, for "aaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!" :D) and we are sleep-deprived, overwhelmed and testy. This is often when things get nasty or snippy, or when we fail to completely read and understand a post. (How many threads have begun "I'm feeding my 4-wk old the Fox Valley and goat's milk....etc.." only to have three responses afterward that say "What are you feeding? What kind of formula?" READ, folks, then respond . I'm as guilty as anyone else. :D

However, during baby season there are also those repeated cases where a person -- often a very young person, but sometimes an older arrogant person -- insists on keeping a baby squirrel even though they have NO resources. NO WAY of getting the proper formula. NO WAY of getting the right equipment to feed the baby. NO WAY of staying home to care for it, and no money to buy a cage and quality food for the next few months. That's why our members start saying NO WAY are you keeping that squirrel. :peace

stepnstone
10-10-2012, 11:12 AM
This is so true. I don't know if some on here do not realize how they come off to other ppl. For one, they should READ and TRY TO UNDERSTAND everything stated in the post before commenting. It would cut out alot of unnecessary confusion. Everyone does things differently. I have only been here a month and have seen some ppl post to this board truly needing help and be ridiculed for things they did not know or things they did when they are trying to get help. :shakehead :ohthedrama It will end up costing some poor animal it's life because they don't want to post and get the proper help because of the way they are spoken to when they do. I know ppl have their own opinions, just as I have mine. Some don't think squirrels should be kept as pets and some don't want to release them... this is also a sore spot I see but it is in the rules to keep those opinions to yourself EITHER way. Just my opinion.

We all understand what you are saying, can't say we all agree...
It's really hard to see a dying squirrel that needs help and the "rescuer" just won't listen to what they are being told.
It's even harder to read a squirrel has died when you know it could have been spared.
Strong opinions will arise out of frustration!

The strong opinions expressed on this board have resulted in more people taking the initiative to do right or to relinquish
the squirrel to one who can then it has caused one to exit.

We would like to save them all, we can't, but it will never be because we failed to try.

island rehabber
10-10-2012, 11:40 AM
We would like to save them all, we can't, but it will never be because we failed to try.

Amen, bro. :bowdown

astra
10-10-2012, 02:24 PM
Some don't think squirrels should be kept as pets and some don't want to release them... this is also a sore spot I see but it is in the rules to keep those opinions to yourself EITHER way. Just my opinion.
I usually try to stay out of such discussions.

But I would like to address something that needs addressing, especially, in view of so many newcomers and, especially, teenagers or young adults who do not want to give a compromised baby into more experienced hands.

So, what needs to be addressed is the "to release or not to release" part.

:peace I completely and wholeheartedly agree that everyone has opinions. Totally.
However, that does not make all opinions of equal 'value' - some opinions here are based on experience and other opinions are not.

What is even more important, is that there are opinions and there are facts that result from decades and decades of collective rehab experience and accumulated knowledge about wildlife in general and squirrels in particular.

It is such facts that underlie "to release or not to release."

Even though, people may have opinions on whether they want to release or do not want to release, it does not mean that those opinions should be validated.
Technically, to release or not to release a wild animal should not be a matter of consideration, and it should never be a human's decision. Why?

Because a wild animal, technically, does not belong in household, really.
We do not own these animals.
We are entrusted with their care.
We do what we can to help them.
But it is the animal's decision - to stay or not to stay.
But in order for the animal to make that decision - the animal should be given a chance of release.
A healthy able wild animal should have a chance to be released.
A wild nature of a wild animal is not meant for domestic conditions.
If that animal comes back and decides that s/he does not want to live in the wild - that's a different story.
But that's an animal decision.

When humans start deciding to keep a wild animal regardless of what the animal might want - that's wrong and that's selfish. It might be an opinion, but it is a selfish opinion, based on self-gratification or ignorance.

This issue of "to release or not to release" is especially important b/c very often, it is those people, who do not realize all the implications of keeping a wild animal, who decide to keep it.

A lot of people do not realize that a wild animal is not a domestic animal.
A squirrel is no domestic pet-store hamster, or guinea pig, or puppy, or cat.
A squirrel CANNOT be potty trained just like cats and dogs.
A squirrel cannot be "told" not to do something like dogs can.
A squirrel is a wild prey animal and reacts as such, which means that when in a bad mood, scared, ticked off, upset, in pain, in discomfort, having a bad day, or simply disliking someone - it bites, and scratches, and can even attack.
Moreover, each wild animal, besides overarching traits of wild animals (such as instincts etc), has their own unique traits.
One such unique trait of squirrels is being a one-person animal.
That means that a grown-up squirrel bonds with ONLY ONE human in the household, and does not accept anyone else.
THAT means that everyone else gets bitten, scratched and even attacked.

The problem arises when people DO NOT ACCEPT the wild animal - squirrel in this case - as s/he is, but start getting upset when the squirrell attacks other family members, or when the squirrel chews up all furniture and everything that can be chewed, when other pets have to be kept separately, when squirrels end up pooping everywhere and so on, and so forth.
Then, people start "adjusting" the animal to their needs, attempting neutering, cutting nails, and many other such things (even the way domestic cats get declawed, or dogs get de-voiced - that's wrong, too, but it's a separate discussion).

To start adjusting a wild animal like that is wrong.

To get upset with a squirrel because it bites or chews is wrong, too.
This cannot be changed and must be accepted.

But the problem arises when people first decide to keep a little squirrel because it's cute. And then, when the squirrel bonds with one person only, bites everyone else and chews everything in site, when it grows up to be a wild animal - they get upset with it, and when they realize there is nothing to be done about that - they don't need it anymore.


Most people, who decide to keep a wild animal, do not educate themselves on what it involves. And that's why, most of the time, those who decide to keep a squirrel are those who have no clue what it means to keep a squirrel.
Yes, they have an "opinion" but that opinion is based on nothing but their own wish.
And, unfortunately, the majority of these people do not listen when they are advised against keeping a squirrel by experienced people, whose "opinion" is based on years of experience and knowledge of wildlife.

That's why "to release or not to release" is not just a matter of opinion.

A wild animal should be given a chance of release.

Because in 99.9% of all cases a wild animal - a squirrel - will choose to be released. Yes, there are some who decide to stay - but that's their choice and only their own choice.

<People who take in a wild animal - a squirrel in this case - should be prepared to adjust their life AROUND that the squirrel's nature and life. Not the other way around.

<People should be prepared for and accept that only one person will be able to interact with this squirrel and the rest of the family will have to deal with it.
*That a squirrel may bite other family members, and it will have to be the family members, not the squirrel, who will have to stay away.
It is wrong when the squirrel stops getting its due out of cage time because humans do not want to be bitten.

*That a squirrel may, occasionally, bite even the chosen human if the squirrel is spooked, upset, ill, in discomfort, or just in a bad mood.

*That a squirrel will chew what it wants to chew and it's its human's obligation to make sure that the valuables are not chewed.

*That a squirrel will poop wherever it wants to, and will pee not only in one spot.

*THat a squirrel requires a special diet and there are no ways to work around it.

So, to release or not to release is not just a matter of opinion.

And one can understand experienced people here who continuously stress the importance of release, because how many times these experienced rehabbers and people have seen imprinted squirrels, raccoons, skunks etc etc etc - rejected because they chew, rip, bite, poop, pee etc etc etc?
It's traumatic for the animals.
It often ends tragically when, for example, a squirrel, who was used to dogs and cats, and to jumping on people, now cannot be wilded up and released. It's very difficult, and that's why most wildlife centers will euthanize such animals, because to wild them up will take a lot of effort AND is not guaranteed.
Just a few days ago 2ndHandRanchRescue posted about a raccoon that now she has to try and release - very sad and tragic and infuriating, too, because people decided to keep a raccoon, but didn't want it anymore when the raccoon started acting out what it is - a wild animal.

Sorry, it came out so long, but it has to be addressed.
Because to release or not to release is not a matter of opinion.

And, since squirrels are the focus of attention here - healthy able squirrels should be given a chance to be released.
This is not an opinion.
It's the fact, and the rule of rehabbing wildlife.
And when experienced rehabbers here strongly suggest that a healthy normal squirrel be released, it is only out of genuine concern for this squirrel's future.
(Again, if a squirrel chooses to come back indoors - that's a different story; but before it can make such choice, it should be given something to choose from, and hence - should be give a chance to try release)
:peace

P.S. there are some things/ways that sometimes help lessen the severity of a squirrel's "dislike" of other family members, or biting, or peeing everywhere, but more often than not these "ways" help to a point (or not at all) after which - the squirrel should be accepted for what it is: a sweet, amazing, wonderful, intelligent, perceptive, funny, :) but still a wild prey animal.

island rehabber
10-10-2012, 03:29 PM
:bowdown astra :bowdown

"Because to release or not to release is not a matter of opinion."


Perfectly written, and I agree with every single word. May I just add one more little point? In recent years, I have had the "privelege" of releasing formerly pet squirrels who became rude and obnoxious to their owners -- in other words, they started acting like squirrels. Although each one looked sad and tragically confused the day I first left them alone in the release cage, not one ever failed to wild up and become happy citizens of the wood. They even stopped jumping on me, eventually.....:shakehead

Part of the reason many folks around here say releasing is scary and dangerous and horrible is because they hear horror stories of released squirrels crawling back injured shortly after. IMHO, this happens often because they lack a good release site. If your neighborhood is crowded with squirrels, don't be surprised when your boy comes home beaten to a pulp the first day by the local boys. If you have only one tree on your entire block, and big open lawn areas, don't be surprised when your released baby gets plucked by a hawk his first day.:shakehead And free-roaming cats? Don't even:nono.......How about cars zooming 15 feet from where you release your squirrels? Seriously? :dono

I guess what I am saying is the release site is as important as how you raise the squirrel, and the notion that "outside is a deadly, dangerous place" has more to do with the particular place you chose than with squirrels' ability to flourish in the wild. Squirrels in a good release site survive and thrive....you don't need to keep them in a bubble! :D

SammysMom
10-10-2012, 03:30 PM
Astra, that was so well said. It is such a fine line to tread when trying to get a point across and still not be so harsh as to drive someone away from the lifeline of TSB.
You said so much so nicely...:bowdown :bowdown :bowdown