Why no Peanuts?

[PearlsMom]

Why is it that they can't have peanuts?

[CritterMom]

It isn't that they can't have any peanuts, but they should be an occasional treat.

You have likely read on here that you are trying to keep a general level of 2 parts of calcium for every 1 part of phosphorus in their total diet. Peanuts have 1 part of calcium to every 6 parts of phosphorus. See how backward that is?

Also, peanuts are not nuts. They are closer to legumes (beans). Furthermore, they grow in the dirt - peanuts are part of the root. Because of this, they tend to harbor aflatoxins, which is a fungus, which likes to grow in damp things - and stuff that grows in the dirt is in a damp atmosphere. Roasting dowes not kill it. Aflatoxins can make anyone sick, including your squirrel.

So now, you can see that they have two strikes against them - high in phosphorus and possible aflatoxins.

This is why I like almonds and almond butter rather than peanut butter. Almonds have 1 part of calcium to 1.8 parts of phosphorus - not perfect, but a lot better.

BTW, two of the worst things for high phosphorus you can feed are corn and pine nuts.Raw corn is 1 part calcium to 45 parts phosphorus. Pine nuts are 1 to 36. Yikes!

[CritterMom]

This is a VERY helpful post.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15397

Go to the first post and download and print the two documents. It has the calcium to phosphorus levels of many common foods that you might feed your squirrel. It gives two readings - the first is the actual amount in milligrams of calcium to milligrams of phosphorus, but the more important is the 2nd column, which has the ratio. The first number is calcium, the second is phosphorus.

A note: HHBs are designed to have enough calcium to keep you in good shape if you do not also feed a ton of really high phosphorus foods like the corn and pine nuts that I mentioned above. You don't have to use a calculator nonstop that way - if they eat two a day and get fresh veggies and only accasional treats like nuts, you will be okay without having to stress about every bite. But it is a good way to know what is good and what is bad and if you stick to mostly good and not too much bad, you will be all set.

[PearlsMom]

Thanks CM. I will check that out. My girl does not eat the hhbs or the picky ones. I am going to try a recipe that someone put on one of my other post that they ues with there left over hhbs. I just have to get the stuff to make it. She is eating boo balls, fruits and vegies. Nut's as treets. Idk what to do about the hhbs, they just work or us. I know that everyone says, just give that to them and nothing else till they eat it but I am sorry that just does not work. I guess I am a bad Mom because I can't get her to eat them. I just don't know.

[SammysMom]

It isn't that you are a bad mom, but you really have to get her to eat them or another block or she will be a very sick girl. Try getting some almond butter and microwaving a bit of it in a bowl. Then cut the HHBs in half or in quarters and toss them in the almond butter. Let them cool or put them in the fridge for a little while. The almond butter may do the trick. She really need 2 of them per day to keep her healthy. This is a battle that you MUST win or she will be really sick.:grouphug

[redwuff]

:goodpost :alright.gif
It isn't that you are a bad mom, but you really have to get her to eat them or another block or she will be a very sick girl. Try getting some almond butter and microwaving a bit of it in a bowl. Then cut the HHBs in half or in quarters and toss them in the almond butter. Let them cool or put them in the fridge for a little while. The almond butter may do the trick. She really need 2 of them per day to keep her healthy. This is a battle that you MUST win or she will be really sick.:grouphug

:goodpost :goodpost

[farrelli]

I totally get why captive squirrels can't have corn and peanuts (other than treats) but what about wild squirrels? Is it really so bad for them? I mean, in places where winters are harsh, wouldn't adding the needed calories trump the calcium issue? And is there a way to increase the calcium for wilds? Perhaps add it to their water bowl? (I'm trying to find a metal or ceramic heated bowl.)

[jbtartell]

This is a VERY helpful post.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15397

Go to the first post and download and print the two documents. It has the calcium to phosphorus levels of many common foods that you might feed your squirrel. It gives two readings - the first is the actual amount in milligrams of calcium to milligrams of phosphorus, but the more important is the 2nd column, which has the ratio. The first number is calcium, the second is phosphorus.

A note: HHBs are designed to have enough calcium to keep you in good shape if you do not also feed a ton of really high phosphorus foods like the corn and pine nuts that I mentioned above. You don't have to use a calculator nonstop that way - if they eat two a day and get fresh veggies and only accasional treats like nuts, you will be okay without having to stress about every bite. But it is a good way to know what is good and what is bad and if you stick to mostly good and not too much bad, you will be all set.
:wahoo great post:wahoo

[CritterMom]

I totally get why captive squirrels can't have corn and peanuts (other than treats) but what about wild squirrels? Is it really so bad for them? I mean, in places where winters are harsh, wouldn't adding the needed calories trump the calcium issue? And is there a way to increase the calcium for wilds? Perhaps add it to their water bowl? (I'm trying to find a metal or ceramic heated bowl.)


Our captives' ONLY food sourse is us, and if we give them the wrong foods they really have no other choice.

Wilds eat all sorts of things other than the stuff we put out - it is a small part of their diet, not the only thing they get. Nevertheless, in areas where they mooch constantly from humans you will see a lot of signs of poor nutrition.

Calcium doesn't dissolve so it would just come out of suspension and sit in the bottom of the water bowl.

I feed, well, I don't want to think about how many squirrels I feed but I live on the edge of a large woods in a suburban area so hundreds is probably not out of the question, and 50 is a sure bet. They hang out at my house and nosh all day, and I want them to be healthy so I feed my wilds Mazuri rodent block, which a lot of rehabbers use as food.

[astra]

what CrM said.

If you give your wilds something sticky, like avocado, fruit pieces, then you could sprinkle cal. on that.
I don't know how many wilds you have, I only had about 20+- (nowhere near what CrM feeds), so, I used to cut up avocado (no pit, no skin), apple slices, cucumbers and sprinkle them with cal, or just coat them in cal.
Wilds don't eat veggies generally, because they have so much of their own greens to choose from, but a lot of them do eat avocado, apples, bananas, cukes.

They also liked crushed block, something like a booball, and definitely, nut butter soaked block, like CrM does

[farrelli]

Thanks. The sprinkling on fruit and whatnot is a great idea, at least in the summer. I'm planning to move to Northern Ontario, however, where it gets COLD and is so for at least half the year. I don't even know if fruit and such would go over in the winter because it will be frozen solid in a matter of minutes. I'm just totally baffled about how these squirrels get their calcium in the winter, especially the urban ones where there are no antlers and the like. All that they'd have are what they've buried, bird feeders, and squirrel feeders. I'm just trying to figure out what would be best for them, on a relative budget. Corn and sunflower seeds are what's always available and I've always assumed that those would be OK given that you need LOTS of calories to survive all that cold and snow, but in the few months that I've been on this board I've seen MBD everywhere and am now totally sensitive to it. Any ideas? I've seen mountable antlers, and I could probably stick that on a tree, but I don't know if they'd use it. Other than that, I'm at a loss.

[CritterMom]

Well, shhhhh, don't tell anybody, but they have been known to snag little birds and eat everything, including skeletons... I personally believe they get quite a bit from the green layer directly under the bark of tree twigs the name of which is escaping me right now - cambium - that's it - because they eat a lot of it.

Again, I don't think it is so much that they consume massive amounts of calcium; it is that they DON'T (in the wild without our "help") consume much phosphorus.

[gs1]

wow....crittermom... really well said!!!!

i've learned tonnes from this thread....:thumbsup :thankyou


CM CM CM

[astra]

Thanks. The sprinkling on fruit and whatnot is a great idea, at least in the summer. I'm planning to move to Northern Ontario, however, where it gets COLD .
yay, this means there will be another CA person and there is such a shortage of them, So, yes, please move ;)

Yes, if you just leave fruit out there, it will freeze no matter what.
But I am sure that once you get to know your squirrels' schedule, you will be able to put the fruit/veggies out just in time for them to come.
E.g, they always showed up at my place early in the morning and then, for their bed time snack (in addition to those who would stop by during the day to see if anything is available).

Also, even in the summer, leaving food out at all times may not be a good idea. Especially, do not leave it overnight or you will end up with raccoons.

As for cal, in addition to the 'skeletons' ;) mentioned by CrM my assumption would be that a lot of all the buds, grass, plants, roots, etc etc etc that they eat spring - autumn must be as loaded with the right ratio of cal to phos. as a lot of green veggies that we eat.
Besides, there are tons of insects and microorganisms in the soil and I am sure, those are part of their menu, too