Georgia Squirrel Weight question

[whitedog9]

Greetings-This is my 1st post. One of our dogs brought us a 3 week old baby squirrel 9/11/12. He was not injured. The dog is a sweet female and was holding the baby very gently-no marks at all on the little squirrel. We called around and none of the rehabbers in our area had any room. We have never raised any orphan animals of any kind. Fortunately we found TSB and got the info we needed to proceed. His eyes opened 9/24. He is doing fine after a few fits and starts. At this time he weighs 85 grams. We figure that he was 3 weeks +/- when we got him. We deduced that because of the date his eyes opened. We are feeding him 1-2 rodent blocks a day at this time for the last couple days. He also gets 6 cc of Esbilac 4 times a day at 4 hour intervals. The Esbilac mix is 2 parts water to 1 part Esbilac. We just started this last week. Before that we fed him 3 cc 4 x a day. He ended up dehydrated so we gradually upped his feedings to where we are now. I just weighed him and he weighs just under 90 grams. He is healthy and runs around a climbs trees a bit and follows me around the yard. He eats very energetically and without hesitation. He does not appear sick in any way. He is full furred and his tail is filling out nicely. I am concerned that he does not weigh enough for his age. What do the other forum members think? He does not appear sickly or anything in any way. From what I see he is acting just like he should at this stage. I appreciate any input. By the way we are not going to keep him we just want to help him get back out in the forest where he belongs. Thank you

[kastillo]

So the squirrels is about 8 weeks old?? Just from my experience, around 90 grams was the weight of mine at 5 weeks old. At eight weeks she was closer to 200. Fox Valley formula is the best thing you can get to feed this baby. Esbilac can cause GI problems, low weight gain, and even death in some squirrels.
Here's some sites where you can order it:
http://foxvalleynutrition.com/main/home.asp
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/
www.henryspets.com
It should be eating 5-7 % of its weight per feeding and four to five feedings a day. (at 90 grams that would be 4.5 - 6.3 cc's per feeding)
Also, momma squirrels don't let there babies venture from the nest till about ten weeks. It may not be a good idea to let it go outside with you.
This is just info from my experience and what I've read here on this board. They have a wealth of great information. There will be experienced rehabbers responding shortly. Good luck!

[Jackie in Tampa]

Hello...
will let others advise also, but from my experience... he would not be out of his mommas nest at that age or size,,, and he should not be out in the yard either.
He is wee little...he should be over wintered...
mommas don't let go of their babies until they are 4 months old and that is in perfect conditions..we are not sqs and cannot be there to launch them into nature as momma's do...
does he have a cage?
is he being exposed to the dog daily?
would you like a rehabber to help you, he should be raised with other sqs his same age.
If so, where are you in Georgia?

Esbilac has been linked to issues and deaths...
there are better options as far as formula choices... many have found Fox Valley to be best as it is formulated for sqs specifically.

Not trying to be a downer as it is obvious that you want to do best for him and your love and concern show...
just want to share what I have found to be in the best intrest of the squirrel.:thumbsup

we love pics...:poke

:Welcome :wave123

[whitedog9]

Thanks Jackie in Tampa and Kastillo - I really appreciate your help - I am going to order some Fox Valley as soon as I get through typing. I have just had this sense that he is not putting weight as he should. I am confused about what weight he should be. I have seen some charts regarding weight/age but I am not sure if they are referring to Northern Grays or Southern. We are in middle Georgia. Other info I have read is that the Southern squirrel is about half the weight of the Northern squirrel. I definitely do want to do right by him. I built him a cage that is 24x24x18. The 24" hgt is upright so he can climb around that high and is very nimble and active. I also have built him a nest box and he uses it so that is good. Sometimes he seems to be sleeping so soundly that he can not hear me call him when it is supper time and I have to raise the lid and then he wakes up and willingly comes out into my hand. His cage is outside with the nestbox inside. It is securely locked and when he comes out in the morning he is nice and warm. It is getting down into the 40's here at night/early morning. Regarding the dog we have a Boston and we keep them apart although sometimes the dog is around when I am feeding the squirrel because I bring the squirrel inside to feed him- We don't let him get close to the squirrel although on occasion the dog comes up and I am busy with the squirrel and do not see him. I am thinking of building him an outside cage so he can have a larger are to play in - Is he old enough for that? Thanks for your help and suggestions - I really want to have a successful release. The overwintering part seems to us as the most appropriate since he seems so small.

[whitedog9]

Jackie in Tampa - I would really love for him to be around squirrels his own age and size-We are in Middle Georgia and can take him anywhere so he can have some mates to play with as long as it is a good home. Could he then come back here to be released. I have read that they should be released within two miles of where they were found. We live on a 40 acre farm with lots of oak and hickory trees. There are Maples, Dogwoods, Poplar and well you name it. We have a healthy squirrel population here.

[whitedog9]

Jackie in Tampa - Yes I would like an experienced Rehabber to help us-We do not mind raising him but know that it is best if he were around other squirrels his own size-Anything we can do to assist this one to have a normal squirrel life we are willing to do!!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have Pmed a LR in your area that is wonderful.
Atlantasquirrelgirl

what wire did you use on his cage?
yes, southerns are alot smaller than the greys from up north...
body mass for cooler climate.

Him seeing the dog scares me... if he studies the dogs movements and gets comfy, once released the possibility of him being comfy with a neighbors not so sq friendly dog may cost him his life...
and then there is the possibility YOUR dog may like him more than you realize...dogs are smart and they do like sqs...

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28790


Hope ASG can help out! she's awesome and your baby will be a lucky little one if she has room :Love_Icon

[whitedog9]

Thanks Jackie, Thanks for sending a message to ASG. Our dog is not around much and when I take him outside to play I take our dog inside-There is not as much contact as you think but I hear what you are saying and we will be even more diligent. Another good thing is that we do not have any close neighbors. We live 1/4 mile from a little traveled country road. Our closest neighbor is approx. 1/4 mile away and does not have any dogs. Beyond that the next neighbor is about 3/8 mile away. But as I said before we will step up our diligence even more - we have been about 70-80% good about maintaining separation but there is room for improvement and we will take those extra steps. We used 1/2" x 1/2" hardware cloth - typically the kind that is used on the bottom of rabbit hutches. So we are good there. The box has a predator guard on the inside of the cage and below that it is about 13" to the bottom of the nest area. The box also has two entry exit holes-one on each side so he has an alternate way out but again he is inside the cage. if he ends up living in this nest box up in a tree I will add a predator guard over each of those holes so any predator will be kept that much further away. Let me know if you hear from ASG-We are in Athens, GA - not far from Atlanta at all

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I'm in Vermont, but there's a friend of mine really close to you, and she is fabulous. Going to send you her contact info via PM/.

[whitedog9]

Jackie and Atlanta Squirrel Girl-Thanks to both of your efforts I am in touch with a licensed Rehabber who definitely is at the top of her game! She has a solo female squirrel about the same age and is willing to take our little guy and bring him along. She is going to come over tomorrow evening and check my little guy out and if all goes well she will take him this weekend and when it is appropriate bring him back to release him here where he is from. This makes me so happy I can not stand it-I love this little guy so much and hope the best for him-My wife and I have done the best we could. I really appreciate your efforts - We call this little guy Swirl. Swirl says thank you I need a squirrel buddy! Thanks again I will let you know how this works out!

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

That's great news. She's a fantastic rehabber, and Swirl will be in good hands with her.

[whitedog9]

Thanks so much once again for your help - We had a great conversation and I feel very comfortable with the upcoming transition in Swirl's little life - It is amazing how one can fall in love with these little guys-I look forward to seeing him every morning-That will be hard but its all for the best-Thanks again

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Thanks so much once again for your help - We had a great conversation and I feel very comfortable with the upcoming transition in Swirl's little life - It is amazing how one can fall in love with these little guys-I look forward to seeing him every morning-That will be hard but its all for the best-Thanks again

Well, if you really enjoyed this experiece, maybe you should talk to her about volunteering for her. I know I could use the help, but you are a little farther from me.

[Nemehoto]

It's very easy to fall in love with these little guys and they are wonderful creatures (and holy terrors as they grow up, just ask my curtains...) I have 2 Eastern grays that I've raised from tiny newborns about 3 days old. (they are 11 weeks now) I even try to make a video of them playing in my room during out of cage time... and all I get is a blur. I couldn't have done it without the help of the folks here. It really makes a difference to them if they have a playmate or a sibling. It sounds like you are doing well with him so far.

During the first month I had mine I read a lot of misinformation about formulas, and I used kitten milk replacer suggested by a SC rehabber... they did "ok" but I could tell by 3 weeks old something was definitely wrong, my guys were smaller and weaker than I thought they should have been and their poop was greasy looking... Then I found this board and got a LOT of wonderful advice and now they are healthy happy and full of mischief. Within a week of the formula change they had nearly doubled in size and were looking rotund and were more alert...

That is awesome that you rescued him and have done your best to help him.

[Squirrelis]

You are good squirrels peeps whitedog:D thanks for giving Swirl the chance to be a squirrel- bless you both:)

[whitedog9]

OK Here goes-I am going to post a few pics of Swirl. These were taken yesterday afternoon. We found him before his eyes were open. Working backward from when they opened we figure that he was 3 weeks old more or less. That would have put his birthday on Aug. 22(coincidentally my birthday as well :) ). So from Aug 22 - Oct 24 he would have been 64 days old. That makes him 9 weeks and 1 day old more or less. Is this the proper way to calculate his age? Anyway he is very small. I weighed him. On October 22 he weighed just under 90 gm. I kept wondering why he was not getting any larger. I was confused about the weight he should be. I looked at lots of info regarding squirrel age/weight. I knew he did not look as large as the squirrels his age in the pictures. The part that was confusing was that I read in several places that Eastern Gray squirrels are about half the size of Western Gray Squirrels. I was never sure that the charts i was viewing were of Eastern or Western. For some reason I thought they were Western. I believe I thought that because of the source of the charts/pics. Any way since I thought they were of Western I divided the weight in half and figured that for an Eastern he was doing ok-I guess what happened (slowly) next was that I just had a gut feeling that he was not putting on weight. A few days later I posted my first post to the TSB. Here are pics that were taken yesterday just before Kelly picked him up

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1439.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1440.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1442.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1444.jpg

[whitedog9]

I am going to see if the pic comes up as a pic rather than a link

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1444.jpg

[whitedog9]

I am going to see if the pic comes up as a pic rather than a link

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1439.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1440.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1442.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u667/whitedog9/IMG_1444.jpg

[kastillo]

Aww, he is so cute. Big kisses to Swirl. Thanks for helping him!

[whitedog9]

When I mentioned in an earlier post about the size difference between Eastern and Western Gray Squirrels I meant to refer to Northern Gray Squirrels rather than Western Gray Squirrels - I have so much to learn-Lots of very important things to consider when you have a little life in your hands-Thanks to all of you for your help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[whitedog9]

One other thing I thought I should pass along - Knowing as little as we did/do My wife and I kept records of everything we fed Swirl. This includes the amounts and the times as well for every day we had him. That helped give us some perspective when something would go awry. I would highly recommend this esp for new squirrel people. I am going to begin studying to become a licensed rehabber-There is so much to learn. I imagine that when you know what you are doing that the record keeping may or may not be as necessary because you have developed a regimen that you use every time unless something unusual is going on with a given squirrel.

[whitedog9]

UPDATE!!! The following is from Kelly who has taken over the care of Swirl - Great news!!!

Ok, I hope you're not offended but I've taken to calling the squirrel Reggie. It started out with me referring to him as Reggie's squirrel and then it somehow morphed into me calling him that by name by accident and it's just stuck. My subconscious has decided that's his name and that's that.
He's cool with it so I hope you are too.

His first bath was rather anticlimactic and uneventful and I couldn't get Adam to rush in and get a picture so I'll send you a bath picture another time. He doesn't even attempt to get away, he just lays on his back and stares at me intently while I soap him up. He does need at least one more good bath to remove all the old formula that dried in his hair but I didn't want to make his skin sore picking at it for too long at one time. He is eating 6 cc's of formula every 3 hours during the day and he's gnawing on monkey biscuits and avocados in between formula feedings. I put a heating pad under his container and he's still sleeping on the heated end so he's quite full and cozy.

I'll try my best to take the time for pictures tomorrow so you can get a good look at him. You won't see much difference yet but he has gained a whopping 11 grams, so we're seeing very good progress.

Have a good weekend. More later,

Kelley