??? Do some Female Squirrels adopt Orphans???

[copesullivan]

OKAY..... I've been telling you all about some orphaned baby squirrels at the cemetery where I work.

That thread is here:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36758

We first saw them 2 1/2 - 3 weeks ago (they were about 6 - 7 weeks old then, judging by size... so they are around 8 - 9 weeks old now [maybe even close to 10... but their tails still aren't that bushy]).

Anyway.... I've been feeding them twice a day (apples and nuts and yogart) AT THE CEMETERY, wishing to keep them as wild as possible. They have been doing very well so far, and growing like weeds !! :)

Now.... the first day we saw them, they brought themselves to our attention with their pittiful, heartwrenching crying for their mom. They all three had climbed out onto the futhest, most rickety weak limb of the tree, and were teatering on the skinniest branches, absolutely WAILING for their mother.

Later that day, all three wandered down the tree and onto the ground, and started DESPORATELY "trying" to eat acorns (but couldn't because they couldn't get the shells open). My cousin and I started cracking acorns open and tossing them to them. They gobbled them up.

We went and got some apples and cheerios (advice from an ACO) and put those at the base of the tree. In the next few days, I started adding a mixed nut/seed/fruit mix to the dinner menu. And, a member here gave me a Yogart recipe.

For the past few weeks, we have seen the babies coming and going from their hole in the tree (thankfully, their nest is in a hole, not a drey), and eating the food Ive offfered. We have never seen an adult enter or leave their hole, nor have we seen an adult come near them. However, we HAVE found that the food at the base of the tree has been attracting other adult squirrels in the neighborhood. We are worried that an adult may try to strong arm the babies out of that perfect nest hole... so we have been watching a bit more lately.

Well, TODAY after watching the babies come and go from the nest hole for a while, I caught sight of an adult squirrel BOLT across a limb and DASH into the babies hole. (you couldn't believe how panicked I was!!!). We were standing there, waiting to hear babies scream from being attacked, or see them physically tossed from the hole....

But, it DIDN'T happen. All remained peaceful. Babies came and went without issue. One sat in the "doorway" looking out for a while, then went back inside.... No issue, no problems... nothing.

Sooooo..... Hmmm... Now to speculate...

With everything I read (when researching), no Mama squirrel would have allowed 6 - 7 week old babies to wander THAT far from the nest.... and not only just once, but over and over again for close to three weeks. They would be only just starting to explore NOW (I think.... from what I read).

So, is it possible that some other female squirrel has discovered this brood and "adopted" them?

Or, My cousin thinks that (along similar lines), that this could be a hole that Mama has used before, and this could be an "older sibling" from the spring batch, who returned to the hole in hopes of wintering with Mom, and found the babies.... hence, somewhat adopting them/living with them....

Or, I speculate, maybe mom was trapped somewhere for a long time (like someone's garage, or attic, or whatever)...

Or is it just possible that some strange adult has moved into the hole, not bothered to kick the babies out, and they are just getting along peacefully (who knows how big the hole is or where it leads to in the tree.... it is a very big tree, and maybe the hole could be a "tunnel" of sorts that leads to different "chambers" inside the tree).

I do know that adult males will kill babies that are unprotected.... that is why we are so worried.

Any thoughts???

:thinking

[copesullivan]

Shameless Self - BUMP.....

:bump

I'm just really concerned. Not that I can physically do something about it.... I can't be there 24/7 or even climb up into the tree and "disapline" the adult squirrel... LOL....

I just want to know if I should be as concerned as I am.

Is it possible that Mom has been around all this time, in "stealth mode", and this is the very first time we've seen her going into the hole? (I mean, that is highly unlikely.... with the amount we've seen these babies wandering up and down the tree and munching happily on the ground..... Mom wouldn't allow that, not at their age.....[unless she spent a LOT of time away from the nest and they took advantage and explored, and ate, and played] ).

Would the babies "allow" (not that they'd have a choice... so allow isn't really the right word, but...) would they be calm and non-reactive to a strange adult entering their nest?

Could my cousin be right, and this is an older sibling from spring, and they can "smell" that he/she is family and it's "okay".

.... or worse.... would a strange adult enter the nest all lovey dovey and calm, only to gain their trust and boot them out later???


Uggghhh...... :Cry I want to know.... !!!

:(

[Scooterzmom]

I would say purty much any of those guesses could be true... although the strange female adopting babies is sort of remote. I DID see a female once babysitting another female's babies - watching her own baby and another's play together until the others ' mom came back and took her own babies back to their nest - but I didn't see the babysitter feed the other female's babies.

If the mom was busy stashing and looking for food - as many of them are at this time of year - then maybe the babies wandered off on their own, having realized there was stuff they liked at the food of the tree. Purty risky for such young guys as you described though.

[copesullivan]

If the mom was busy stashing and looking for food - as many of them are at this time of year - then maybe the babies wandered off on their own, having realized there was stuff they liked at the food of the tree. Purty risky for such young guys as you described though.
Thank you for the thoughts. :)

... Maybe.... the thing is, this isn't just a one day thing (them coming down the tree to eat, that is).

The first day we saw them, they were literally screaming crying for Mom. Then when they came down the tree, we were almost certain they were going to "come to us" to ask for help. We didn't push it (on the advice of an ACO friend of ours). We didn't try to approach them, just remained available, and they were soooooo close to approaching us, but when we started cracking nuts for them, and later put down some chopped apples, they filled their bellies and then went back up the tree to nap.

Since then, I've been feeding them twice a day (what I wrote above) and they have been eating it. They haven't even considered approaching us since we started supplying food.

And... though we've seen several adult squirrels snacking on the food at the base of the tree, we have never (until today) seen an adult interact with them or enter/exit their hole. And it's weird that they didn't seem to have a problem with the adult, nor did the adult seem to have a problem with/vendetta against the babies.

Could Mom really be off everyday between 8am and 5pm, gone the whole time, leaving (then 6week old, now about 9 week old) babies alone, for three whole weeks. If so, I think Mom needs a lesson in parenting !!! :nono ... LOLOL

As much as I'd love for this to be Mom (oh, that would make me feel much better about their chances of survival through the winter) I kind of don't think it is. 2nd best, I'd love for it to be an adult that would stick around and take care of them. They could use a Nanny/foster parent to keep them in line.

I will keep feeding them as I am.
A.) if it's a "Nanny" or older sibbling who has moved in with them and is looking out for them, she can't nurse them and they still need food.
B.) if it really is Mom... well, I'm sure the extra nutrition is helping her. (but, as I said, I doubt it's Mom).

I'm just worried that this Adult will grow tired of these "bothersome kids" and toss them out on their furry little tushes !!! :(

Uggghhhhh...... :shakehead

[copesullivan]

I just had another thought....... :confused:

I was re-reading my previous posts, and something I said (well, a couple somethings... but put those thoughts together).... basically, about a youngster from a spring litter and about this maybe being a "bad mom"... now, I'm not criticizing her, but rather thinking.... do you suppose she could be a YOUNG MOM (too young.... I know they don't normally mate until they are around a year, but some CAN mate and concieve as early as 5 months [yes, I've been doing more reading/research online... google is a wonderful thing... LOL] )... We had a pretty mild winter around here, and the "breading season" and "spring" started very early (I had daffodils coming up in February !!).

I didn't get a really good look at the adult that ran into the hole, as I said it pretty much dashed inside. But I did see it had a very full, fluffy, adult tail. I do know it was an older squirrel (older than a baby).

Do you suppose she is too young to be "ready" to care for these guys, and she hasn't been as attentative as she should (ie:, she HAS been gone ALL DAY during daylight hours, every day, for the past 3 weeks, gathering for the winter.... and not checking in on or feeding her babies during the day.) That would explain why they were so hungry, but not quite at the point of clinging to us for help. And maybe the food I've been giving them has actually been relied on because of the lack of daytime feedings. :confused: Maybe???

I know, I'm grasping at straws.... but I'm trying to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. They definately behave/behaved like orphans... No Mom seen by us, screaming and crying for Mama, "looking to us" (but not quite at the point of running to us) for food, food gobbled down and lives risked on the ground...... but then out of the blue, an adult enters their hole (well.. out of the blue for us, we'd never seen it before) and there's no issues. No screaming. No bloodshed.... I'm happy if they have a larger, warm body to snuggle with and take care of them.... I'm just worried that things aren't as they "seem" and things aren't (or won't stay) all hunkey-dorey.....

:dono

[Scooterzmom]

I have seen mothers gone all day one the babies reach some 9 or 10 weeks. Seen it often in fact. And that is often when youngsters end up getting snatched by crows and hawks... when they venture out of the nest. Now, as to why some moms will do that and others will not, I have no clue :)

I doubt very much that the squirrel you have seen come and go from the nest would be a stranger.

[acorniv]

Based on my experience with animals in general and squirrels in particular, I think it is absolutely possible for a female to adopt babies. Especially if the female was pregnant and lost her own. It wouldn't even surprise me if one stole a litter whose mom was away, in fact. I had a cat who did that - from her own adult daughter ( who was more than happy to see her large litter reduced by half). Squirrels have an incredibly strong sense of community - far stronger than they get credit for. You hear about the spats, because they draw attention, but I've seen subtler things that surpassed any empathy or bond I've seen in a human.

Once there has been a seperation, in most animals, the parties quickly forget their connection. Siblings who weren't brought up together don't recognize each other, even though their scent is similar to what theirs once was.

18 years ago, a litter of squirrels was raised by their mother, on my porch. The trio lived 10 and 11 years, literally 1-3 feet from our window. From them I learned a tremendous amount about the society of squirrels, and they are who made me come to love squirrels above all other animals.

Squirrels have extremely strong bonds based on their basic need for survival. They will do absolutely anything it takes to help their safety buddies ( they generally have one or two, and more often than not, it's their litter mates.)

Let's say a teenage or young adult - or even an older squirrel, has no safety buddy. This is a problem. Safety buddies keep each other warm, keep them company, and protect each other in times of danger and illness. The lone squirrel may be lonely, cold and scared. She sees some juveniles who have lost their mom. They're young and trusting, so she knows they're no threat to her. She makes an offer. A little grooming and training and her warm body if they'll let her join their party. Heck yeah - just the thing! They all chirp. And a deal is struck.

I have never witnessed this scenario, but because of the way I know squirrels to think, I believe it could happen - perhaps it happens very frequently, in fact. It's 100% to their advantage for it to. Consider that squirrels are highly intelligent nd very social. They're right below primates on the evolutionary scale! The scenario I've painted above is both a very smart and very social move.

As to the mom being young and wandering off and forgetting she had babies to feed, well, I'm guessing you've never nursed young yourself :D Trust me, a mom full of milk is every bot as urgent to get to babies as babies are to get to her!

Squirrels think as well as humans ( so far as daily life is concerned - I'm not saying there are squirrel Einsteins), but not necessarily in the same way as humans, An example - let's take ethics and morality, two things squirrels care deeply about. Stealing is GOOD. Why? It demonstrates work ethic and personal achievement. Squirrels will steal something they KNOW is forbidden, and run show their people they did it, because they're proud of their achievement! Handouts, on the other hand, are shameful. My squirrel would look terribly hurt and go pout if I tried to hand her food. These aren't bad ways of looking at things - they're just culturally different from humans, at least in all the cultures I know of. So when you look for answers to your squirrel behavior questions, try to step outside of what you know to be true, and see hot the same situation would look to a squirrel.

[pappy1264]

Most likely is a spring baby who isn't quite mature yet. I don't think a true adult would be so easy going, but a younger one, who perhaps has not gone into heat (in a females case, as I don't believe a male would do this), could move in (hey, warm, dry place witha food delivery service to the door...wouldn't you move in? lol) Just keep an eye. I suppose it could also be mom, who for one reason or another was gone for a bit and has come home, too. But continue to feed them. But put food in different places, so the other squirrels are not drawn to their 'home' to eat, as that could be devastating if another, bigger squirrel decides it wants to live there. If you can put food in a few different places as well as here, they can all eat, w/o having to be right at the door of these babies.

[copesullivan]

I doubt very much that the squirrel you have seen come and go from the nest would be a stranger.

That makes me feel a lot better.



Let's say a teenage or young adult - or even an older squirrel, has no safety buddy. This is a problem. Safety buddies keep each other warm, keep them company, and protect each other in times of danger and illness. The lone squirrel may be lonely, cold and scared. She sees some juveniles who have lost their mom. They're young and trusting, so she knows they're no threat to her. She makes an offer. A little grooming and training and her warm body if they'll let her join their party. Heck yeah - just the thing! They all chirp. And a deal is struck.

That makes sense.... they could use a warm buddy!! I like that idea.



As to the mom being young and wandering off and forgetting she had babies to feed, well, I'm guessing you've never nursed young yourself Trust me, a mom full of milk is every bot as urgent to get to babies as babies are to get to her!

(I have a 13 year old son, whom I nursed until he was 19 months.... ya, I'm familiar with "engorgement"... :tilt )




Most likely is a spring baby who isn't quite mature yet. I don't think a true adult would be so easy going, but a younger one, who perhaps has not gone into heat (in a females case, as I don't believe a male would do this), could move in (hey, warm, dry place witha food delivery service to the door...wouldn't you move in? lol) Just keep an eye. I suppose it could also be mom, who for one reason or another was gone for a bit and has come home, too. But continue to feed them. But put food in different places, so the other squirrels are not drawn to their 'home' to eat, as that could be devastating if another, bigger squirrel decides it wants to live there. If you can put food in a few different places as well as here, they can all eat, w/o having to be right at the door of these babies.

Yes, I have been tring to scatter the food in a couple places. I just don't want to put it all away from the tree, because I don't want the babies wandering too far away from the tree to eat.

Hopefully, it's like you and Acorn said, young adult, warm dry place, warm buddies to hang with, free food..... (what you said above about the larger squirrels... that's my biggest worry.... :shakehead )


Thanks all for the thoughts... I feel better already.

Now, off to the Cemetery to check on the kids and leave out their breakfast !!


:wave123