Ivermectin question, info required

[Thistle0082]

As a rehabber living in a very remote area, I usually don't have ready access to things I require for rehabbing animals and have to make do until I get items shipped in which can be costly.

One point in case is Ivermectin. I am currently treating a squirrel for mange and have to get my Ivermectin from a nearby vet (2.5 horus away). One treatment of .1cc costs me $25 and I needed two for the first round of treatments.

Now I am going through a second round of treatments... you can see where I am going here... I see Chris's Squirrels sells a whole bottle for $35. It would be so much cheaper for me to have the product on hand rather than purchase from the vet every time need it, funds that could go towards other care of rehab animals. Even with shipping and if I had to "waste" expired product, it would probably still be cheaper for me to have a bottle on hand, especially if I have more than one animal in care.

My question is, I am assuming like all meds, that Ivermectin has an expiry date, can anyone tell me what the average shelf life is when they purchased a bottle. Also, does it come with a dosage amount chart. To date my vet always asks me the weight then calculates it and gives me the correct dosage amount, but if I buy a bulk bottle, then I need to get access to a chart or the formula for calculating... can anyone help me out with this.

Thanks. (p.s. for your info, I am a licensed home-based rehabber in north Central Saskatchewan, Canada).

[Wonkawillie]

First off, I do believe the injectable Ivermectin will work WAY out of the expiration date.
Injectable ivermectin can be given orally, but the dose is differant for each species of animal and for what the intended treatment is for. Such as the dose for heartworm preventative in dogs is so small vs the dose to treat mange in a dog.
Are you injecting this for mange or giving it orally? I was going to say that you could maybe figure the dose for a squirrel from a horse paste wormer, but I think in Canada ALL ivermectin has to come from a vet?
I wonder if you can order from Jeffers.com ?
I am sure we can help you with the dose if you got yourself some paste or injectable.

[Wonkawillie]

Also the dose of .1cc seems really large for a squirrel. Each 1 cc treats about 100 lbs of horse body weight, so one tenth of that being .1cc would treat a 10 pound amount of animal. Be VERY carefull as ivermectin is a neurotoxin and if you give .1cc to a one pound squirrel, you may have serious complications. many vets will tell you they are giving you ivermectin at .1cc, but they have already diluted it with propolene Glychol or something inert. This is very common when they treat small animals or birds with ivermectin. Possibly, the .1cc is the quantity taken from some ivermectin the vet had already diluted 10 to 1. This would make more sense as I think the dose for a 1 pound squirrel would be more like .01cc

Maybe someone else can chime in here on doses. lets hope someone else confirms some of this. Dont take my word for it OK.

[daniellenc]

My dogs get .4cc's each month for heart worm preventative so yeah no .1 for a squirrel....my dogs are 96 lbs.:D

[Wonkawillie]

OK, I did find this info for you and I was correct about 1% ivermectin being diluted before dosing. This is the chart of dosages based on the 1% ivermecting being diluted 19 times. after diluting it, these would be the dosages based on the weight of the squirrel.
also, Ivermectin will NOT dilute with water.

Ivermectin Dilute=one part Ivermectin 1% to 19 parts propylene glycol
(This mixture must be shaken prior to use) Give orally to treat mange, mites, to kill
maggots. For mange and mites, give 3 doses, 7 days apart.
weight of squirrel amount of dilute
50 grams .025 cc
100 grams .05 cc
200 grams .1 cc
400 grams .2 cc

[Wonkawillie]

.4cc of full strenght 1% invermectin is WAY too much to treat a 100 pound dog for heartworm prevention. Google "heartguard" and you will see the dose for up to 100 pound dog should be 272 Micrograms. .4cc of full strenght 1% ivermectin would be giving your dogs about 4000 Micrograms of Ivermectin. be carefull if you have figured this for yourself. If a vet has calculated this for you, then possibly they diluted the ivermectin 10 times before giving you your dose. This would be then giving your dogs 400 Micrograms each month. A bit higher dose then Heartguard, but pretty safe I would think.
Dilutions, dosages, mg vs mcg....all very confusing, but a simple mistake can kill an animal. Just be carefull is all I am saying. vets often dilute ivermectin BEFORE dosing, which can mislead us of the amount of medication we are giving if we try to figure it ourselves.

[CritterMom]

If you are in the middle of nowhere, you may have an ivermectin source a lot closer than you think. It is one of the most common of the horse worming solutions, and is available in 1.87% solution, usually apple flavored, in tubes at any place that sells stuff for livestock - tack shops, feed shops, and dozens of places on the internet. A tube is enough to do literally hundreds of squirrels and can be purchased for as little as $1.99 online or as much as about 7 or 8 dollars at a local feed shop. There are many manufacturers and they have names like "Zimectrin" etc., but all are 1.87% ivermectin. A tiny "line" the size of an uncooked grain of rice on a pecan half and you are done. Plus, the apple taste is appealing.

[daniellenc]

It is dilited, lol not straight:D

[Wonkawillie]

@ Danielle.......thank goodness, had me worried.

[Wonkawillie]

Crittermom,

I have horses so i am familiar with the paste dewormers. They are 1.87% like you said, which is almost double the 1% injectable Ivermectin. it is almost double strength and I think a tiny grain of rice would be way too much to treat a squirrel. I dont want to be argumentative here, just being careful. if a full tube of horse Ivermectin dewormer holds 11cc and deworms 1375 pound of horse, then one 11th of this would be 1cc which would treat 125 pounds. a small grain of uncooked rice is about .1 cc which is 1/10th of the cc. 125 pound divided by 10 to create the grain of rice would treat 12.5 pounds. I have never had a squirrel at 12.5 pounds :D
Again, not trying to be a jerk. Just please be carefull with dosages.

[Thistle0082]

Thanks Crittermom and Wonkawillie... so, in the post from Wonkawillie, the dosage I mentioned of .1cc would have been correct based on weight and the fact that this was already prepared by the vet (she would have diluted it prior to giving it to me that's why I give her the weight).

Anyway, I do have access to the paste because I have horses myself, but I have been afraid to use it, I thought perhaps the liquid would be better... we have been dosing orally, not by injection... and to date, for all my wildlife, I have felt more comfortable getting the meds from the vet.

When I say we are in the middle of nowhere, I really do mean that, few people have horses around here so paste is not readily available here, even the vet has to order it for me for my horses because she does not even keep it on hand where she is (2.5 hours away), no vet here, no pet store (have a smaller Walmart), so anything I get has to be ordered. I am able to get the Ivermectin from Chris's Squirrels as I just spoke to them but I have cancelled the order for that seeing as I am getting something from my vet... and I'm really afraid to mix it myself

I am looking to have something on hand, but am being cautious about dosing, as it is a scary thing!! I understand about the toxicity and effects, etc., thus my hesitancy.

I am only retreating as a precaution and based on the vet's recommendation, as I was hoping to release this squirrel before winter, but with temps already having dropped for a couple of nights with frost when we awake in the morning, I will be overwintering this little guy...

I've just ordered dried mealworms and some other vitamin from Chris's just to be sure it is not diet causing the loss of hair. Every new species a rehabber takes in a challenge, and as this is the first squirrel I've done, just want to do it right, but getting costly just for the Ivermectin, if you know what I mean and I can't imagine the cost if I had to do more than one!

I'll be getting my meds from the vet tonight, so will use that seeing as I've already made arrangements, but will definitely be considering other alternatives... so, then another question, if you were me and had access to both paste or the liquid, which one would you be using?

Thanks for all the input, I will keep checking for advice throughout the board.

[daniellenc]

ahahahaha no we've used the diluted ivermectin safely for over 10 years in my lab and 3 in my GSD. I use .1cc's of ivomec and mix with 3cc's of propylene glycol and give each only .4 of a cc which is actually under dosing intentionally. Our SNAP4 has been negative for a decade and I've seen adverse side effects when dosed at .1 cc per 10 pounds so I err on the side of caution:)

[Wonkawillie]

Thistle,

I understand your worry about making the correct dosages. The 1% solution injectable ( given orally) is the best one to break down as it is all based on 10's
1cc gives 10,000 mcg ivermectin and treats 100 pounds.
so you can dilute it by taking 1cc and adding 9 parts propolyne glychol and now from that 10/1 mix if you gave 1cc, you would now treat 10 pounds per cc. So if you gave .1cc, you would treat 1 pound which is the weight of a good sized adult squirrel. I ALWAYS weigh them though to be sure.
sounds like your vet dilutes the ivermectin 10 times then gives you the .1cc dose. sound correct to me :)
If you plan to extend the shelf life of the injectable ivermectin, just dilute a small bit at a time and keep the bottle in a cool dark place. label anything you mix up so you dont forget what you did.
and boy, you ARE in the middle of know where!
best of luck.
Now I think you said you have horses? if your injectable ivermectin is getting to the end of its shelf life and you feel worried about it getting old, use it for your horses, right before it expires. This is what I do. Then it is not wasted at all and you always have some on hand for the little critters!
You would have to do the math, but I seem to remember that you give a 1000 pound horse 10 ccs of the liquid orally. I just put it in the feed and mix it up.
it is a bit more costly to deworm the horses this way, but it is so much more economical to treat your small critters with having it on hand.
I think Jeffers.com will ship to canada and they have so many things you may be able to use, even ivomec.

[Thistle0082]

Sorry so late in responding, internet problems out here in the boonies :wave123

Thanks again Wonkawillie... it is indeed a good idea to use it on the horses and for me, it would actually be cost effective because it costs me about $17 for a tube of paste.

Still unsure about the dosage though, I just got my stuff from the vet... my little guy just weighs over 200 grams now, and looks like she gave me .2cc (last time at 175 grams she gave me .1cc), so not sure how she is diluting it, and I think it is Ivermec and not Ivermectin, so perhaps there is a difference??

So, when you say I can give the excess to my horses, and my horses are indeed around 1000lbs, I would draw up 10cc of the Ivermectin and then dilute it with the propylene glycol at 10 times, so in all a syringe of 100cc of mixed substance... see, I'm scared!

Just as a point re the paste, another example I had was that from the Vet University I had taken an adult beaver to rehab and they gave me the meds (free thank goodness) and the worming paste (was Pantomec) and she said it was weird and seemed like a lot considering what you give horses, but she told me to give him 1/2 tube every 24 hours for 4 times... go figure! :thinking

Gosh for someone rehabbing animals, I can calculate food substances and such, but have never calculated out meds and it is daunting!

[Runestonez]

I go to the "local" tack shop and get the injectable Ivermectin under the brand name Noromectin. (In Ontario)
I can't remember now how much it cost...I THINK it was around $25 for the 50 ml bottle.
I use it topically...one drop from an insulin syringe on the back of the neck.
I bought ours in 2010 and the expiry date is April 2013. So far I have barely touched the bottle.
As part of my intake protocol all of my squirrels get examined and then have a drop of Ivermectin when they are admitted.
Note:FEED the squirrel first...THEN Ivermectin!
When I did my first intake I did it in reverse...there is nothing worse than trying to do an inital feeding while every flea, tick, louse and mite in creation is trying to escape onto YOU!:shakehead

Or if treating an outdoor squirrel...one tiny drop on an almond or other type of nut will work as well.