Bordatella outbreak?

[MiriamS]

I'm curious if anyone has had experience with treating Bordatella in squirrels. A few of us are suspecting an outbreak in the MD/DC area and we have some very sick baby squirrels. Baytril doesn't seem to work and we're wondering what is most effective.

The CDC recommends erythromycin, azithromycin or clarithromycin for bordatella pertussis, which is whooping cough in humans. I'm wondering if this transfers to squirrels.

[island rehabber]

I'm curious if anyone has had experience with treating Bordatella in squirrels. A few of us are suspecting an outbreak in the MD/DC area and we have some very sick baby squirrels. Baytril doesn't seem to work and we're wondering what is most effective.

The CDC recommends erythromycin, azithromycin or clarithromycin for bordatella pertussis, which is whooping cough in humans. I'm wondering if this transfers to squirrels.

Several experts I've read recommend SMZ-TMP (Sulfatrim, Bactrim) for bordatella in squirrels. Typical symptoms in squirrels are repeated sneezing/wheezing, but no loss of appetite or energy level.

[MiriamS]

Yes IR! That sounds exactly right: sniffly, sneezy, runny nose, mouth breathing but healthy appetite and energy.

Someone gave me an orange bottle of SMZ-TMP but I have no idea what the concentration is. I assume it's standard but can someone please give me a dosage for a 75g squirrel? Thanks!

[daniellenc]

Bordatella P is only found in humans and can't be transferred to animals the same as their strain can not be transferred to us- both are bordatella P, but not the same strain:( However, their is quite a few strains of bordatella.....like 200 all behaving differently in different species. Rodents are very prone to bordatella bronchioseptica (sp) and it is found naturally in the wild as well as from our household animals.

What I don't know is can we vaccinate squirrels like a dog or cat??

[island rehabber]

I assume it's standard but can someone please give me a dosage for a 75g squirrel? Thanks!

0.03....BID, for 5 days :)

[MiriamS]

Bordatella P is only found in humans and can't be transferred to animals the same as their strain can not be transferred to us- both are bordatella P, but not the same strain:( However, their is quite a few strains of bordatella.....like 200 all behaving differently in different species. Rodents are very prone to bordatella bronchioseptica (sp) and it is found naturally in the wild as well as from our household animals.

:newb rocks!

[MiriamS]

0.03....BID, for 5 days :)
:thankyou

(you rock too obvy)

[rocky63]

For those of use that are learning.:thinking can someone explain the meaning of bordatella? I looked it up in my quick reference guide and there is no definition. Just would like to know :dono

[island rehabber]

For those of use that are learning.:thinking can someone explain the meaning of bordatella? I looked it up in my quick reference guide and there is no definition. Just would like to know :dono

Ever hear of "kennel cough"? When you leave your dog at the vet and he comes back with a persistent cough? That's the bordatella strain that affects dogs. It's a gram-positive bacterium and is similar to whooping cough in humans.

[pappy1264]

Aka 'the croup', very nasty. I had it twice myself, almost died from it at 14 mos of age (had to have an emergency tracheotomy, then again at 8 yrs old.) Steam helps, too, Miriam. Poor babies, sending healing prayers.

[HRT4SQRLS]

:)
Bordetella is the genus of a bacteria (gram negative bacillus).
Bordetella pertussis is the organism that causes whooping cough in people. Bordetella bronchiseptica is the organism that is associated with kennel cough in animals.

I don't know if B.pertussis can be caught by animals but I would assume that it can be. Whooping cough is NOT that common in people because of vaccinations but recently outbreaks of whooping cough have occurred around the country. With its low frequency (in people) I wouldn't think that many animals are getting B. pertussis. On the other hand, B. bronchiseptica is quite common in animals and also quite infectious to other animals in close contact. Probably the difficulty in treating it is that it is usually associated with co-infections with viruses. The quinolones and the Septra should work against the Bordetella but the co-infecting viruses may be complicating the course of the infection.

I know for a fact that people CAN catch B.bronchiseptica from their pets. I have isolated it myself from respiratory cultures from people. It is usually immunosuppressed people so if you are healthy you are not at a great risk of catching it from your pet. :thumbsup

[MiriamS]

So interesting. I didn't know it was the same thing as kennel cough!

I'm administering SMZ-TMP but I'm also wondering if anyone has trying erythromycin, Zithromax or Biaxin in squirrels. They're all listed as appropriate for animals but I don't know if that specifically applies to rodents. UDoWhat has a very very sick baby so I'm thinking worst case scenario.... if the medication used for Bordatella in humans could work for the baby squirrel.

[djarenspace9]

I remembered reading a paper about Bordetella in squirrels.
Here it is...

http://www.ewildagain.org/pdf/BordetellainSquirrels-10.pdf

[Jackie in Tampa]

RESPIRATORY DISEASE



Respiratory abnormalities are also very common in the
author’s clinical practice.


Streptococcal pneumonias can
reportedly be passed from children to hamsters.5




Presumptive diagnosis may be made by seeing gram-positive
diplococci in nasal or ocular discharge, but material should
be submitted for culture and sensitivity. Other bacterial
organisms (e.g.,


Pasteurella, Staphylococcus, Klebsiella, and



Bordatella)

have been isolated as well. Oxygen therapy and
nebulization with saline should be provided. Empirical broadspectrum
antibiotic therapy includes chloramphenicol,
enrofloxacin, or trimethoprim/sulfa given at the dosages listed
above. Nutritional support is imperative with these patients,
because they usually refuse food. The estimated daily
caloric requirement for maintenance in the hamster is
110W0.75 kcal/day, where W= bodyweight in kg.6 If cardiac
disease cannot be ruled out as a cause of dyspnea,
treatment with a diuretic is also recommended.
Anecdotal reports of respiratory disease and hair loss
associated with the use of cedar shavings in housing for


dwarf hamsters.3
===========================================

Proceeding of the NAVC
North American Veterinary Conference
Jan. 8-12, 2005, Orlando, Florid

[stepnstone]

I personally have not seen/heard any cause for alarm as to a squirrel Bordatella outbreak in Maryland. Since the suggestion of such, I have spoken to quite a few wildlife locations, rehabilitators and veterinarians in this and surrounding Maryland counties into Pennsylvania, they do not report any increased problems within their establishments. DNR Wildlife Resources have not recorded a problem.

I would be more curious if you knew the specific area (or areas) your affected squirrels and the one you took to UDo were originally acquired from as this may be more of an isolated event then widespread at this time.

A few individuals have expressed some concern as to a declining squirrel population in otherwise highly populated areas, a theory has it that this has been due to the high temperatures, intense heat and a lack of water. This theory is being supported by the slowly returning masses now that the temperatures are beginning to level out, nights are starting to get cooler and we are experiencing more rain.

[MiriamS]

One came from Owings, MD and the other from within DC, two completely different places. Might not be an outbreak but it sure is good to know the best way to treat it. Poor babies can go on super sick for weeks and then die. It's awful.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I thought it would be worth circulating this information. None of the medications we would normally use on squirrels seemed to be helping and another Bordatella baby died. I smashed a 500mg pill of Biaxin (Clarithromycin) and diluted it with 50ml of water. I've been giving .03cc of this solution twice daily to my sick baby and he's doing much better. This seems to be a great discovery.:multi
I did some mad research quick quick and this dose is way to low...
i research thru rat forums and I research thru the vet web...
the dilution listed in your post would be 10mg/ml..what did your sq weigh that you used this dose? {0.03ml}
everything I am reading says it is safe to use 8-15mg/kg BID for 14 days, followed by a single daily dose for another two weeks.

I am also finding it can be stacked..suggested are cipro, smz-tmp and amoxy or doxy in conjunction.

amikacin has also been recommended in a few articles..
hope this helps, good luck M

[Jackie in Tampa]

seems the manufacture warns not to use with baxin, valium and several other meds we deem as sq friendly
and that using with antiacids including aluminum and magnesium will reduce the effects and treatment
we as a group do not have alot of experience using this treatment in sqs, so we gotta be careful and note all we are seeing...:thumbsup


amikacin can be used to treat bordetella also

[island rehabber]

A few individuals have expressed some concern as to a declining squirrel population in otherwise highly populated areas, a theory has it that this has been due to the high temperatures, intense heat and a lack of water. This theory is being supported by the slowly returning masses now that the temperatures are beginning to level out, nights are starting to get cooler and we are experiencing more rain.

Squirrels ain't stupid. When the climate stinks and there's no food or water, unlike humans, they LEAVE. :bowdown (Yes I am hearing Sam Kinison in my head......:D)

[MiriamS]

Jackie, your understanding and knowledge of pharmaceuticals is astounding. I've never even heard of Amakacin.

The squirrel I'm treating weighs 60g so is the dose still too low?

[MiriamS]

Squirrels ain't stupid. When the climate stinks and there's no food or water, unlike humans, they LEAVE. :bowdown (Yes I am hearing Sam Kinison in my head......:D)



Good old Sam :bowdown

[Jackie in Tampa]

just lost a long post and have to feed..
Nope M, your dose is right..I mispoke, thought you were using the zithro not the biaxin
the dose is wide margin for the biaxin..your dose is basically on the low end..:thumbsup
suggested doses that I have found are 3mg/kg -10mg/kg for clarithromycin/biaxin in rats.
Not too much info available for rodents...
it's a heavy on the heart and liver
where did you get your dose?

[MiriamS]

Thanks Jackie. So is it good to keep it at the lower end of the range because it's taxing to the heart and liver? I worked out the dose with UDoWhat.

[Jackie in Tampa]

when I have to guess a treatment without vet help, I go low, just me, and if it seems slow..I hit it harder to get an aggressive response..
problem is, ya shouldn't really do it with a baby..
but if in a do or die..I guess you make a call.
thank goodness for vets..and UDo :thumbsup

[stepnstone]

One came from Owings, MD and the other from within DC, two completely different places. Might not be an outbreak but it sure is good to know the best way to treat it. Poor babies can go on super sick for weeks and then die. It's awful.
Which did you have first, the suspect ones out of DC or the suspect ones out of Owens Mills? Is it possible one group infected the other? :thinking

Since the Boratella disease is airborne, highly contagious and takes extreme precautions not to spread it. Not just with the cleaning, disinfecting, but also having to change clothing after handling, I would think it very hard to keep a handle on in tight quarters. Not something I would even attempt to treat here and I'm very thankful UDo had that insight! My sympathies to you both for having to deal with this tragic disease and hope the little one's will start showing some progress and can overcome it.


Squirrels ain't stupid. When the climate stinks and there's no food or water, unlike humans, they LEAVE. :bowdown (Yes I am hearing Sam Kinison in my head......:D)

That was right on the tip of my tongue too...
Mariner's Park has hundreds of squirrels, the last few times I've been down there I was lucky if I even saw a handful. Even then, the ones I did see were young ones.
Mariner's Park is also one of the places where I launch to go kayaking but has been too hot to even be on the river until recently. This past Sunday I was down to do a little kayaking and they were coming out from everywhere following me down to the river with that "hey! where's the nuts" look. :rotfl

[stosh2010]

Jackie, your understanding and knowledge of pharmaceuticals is astounding. I've never even heard of Amakacin.

The squirrel I'm treating weighs 60g so is the dose still too low?
Wow..such a small little one to be getting so sick. My new GIRL...LUNA..is 65 gr. so I know the size well....

[island rehabber]

Erring on the side of caution, until we know more definitively that Biaxin is safe to use on squirrels -- baby squirrels in particular -- I've decided not to publish dosage here. :peace