Pretty sure my Male is clicking:(

[daniellenc]

Both the crazies were fed at 2:30 and there was definitely no clicking going on, but at their 6:30 feeding I am 99.9% sure little Nikolai is clicking. Called vet they are closed and not open tomorrow, called small mammal vet and they too are closed till Monday, so I called e-vet and the receptionist assured me they will not prescribe drugs to a squirrel- I still asked that a vet call me back immediately in hopes even if they won't see him they will prescribe me some baytril.

He ate fine, I bumped up the cage temps, and his breathing is ok. He is pooping and peeing, but this can not wait till Monday. Any Marylanders know of another e-vet that will see Nikolai??

[daniellenc]

Bump.......:confused:

[HRT4SQRLS]

daniellenc,

Do you have ANY antibiotics available? (Human or Veterinary) Do you have Cipro? Does anyone in your family or a friend have any AB? If you can come up with some, there are rehabbers here that can dose for you.

[daniellenc]

I have some amoxicillan but I wouldn't want to use that for pneumonia I don't think. I just tossed some injectable baytril because it was expired and Monday is a death sentence for him to wait:(

[daniellenc]

I have 6 250 mg tabs of amixicillan that thank goodness are powered with the dissolving tab around them, but I know Baytril is best. Could I use this till Monday??

[daniellenc]

.2 ml's twice a day for 7-10 days dissolved in some warm water?? Anyone?? Sorry to be a spaz but I am a spaz there is no excuse for me when I am freaked out and I am trying to be calm but he was the picture of health hours ago and now this:(

[HRT4SQRLS]

I'm hoping some help from your area shows up soon. tinfoil You're right, Monday is too long to wait. I don't know if vets will see squirrels in MD. Do you know? I would call friends to try to locate Cipro (even one pill). As a last resort,you might have to use the Amoxicillin if it is all you have. I have read it is hard on squirrels digestive tract. When it is used, yogurt is given to re-establish gut flora but actually it is good with all antibiotics.

[daniellenc]

I also have an entire bottle of Cefdinir for oral suspension but it is premixed though unopened so probably no good:(

[Nancy in New York]

Let me just alert Jackie to this thread. She is the best at figuring out doses.
Do you still have the baytril, or did the garbageman pick it up?

[HRT4SQRLS]

I will PM a member that can help. She is very busy with babies but maybe she is on.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thanks, Nancy!

[HRT4SQRLS]

Can you weigh the baby and post it.

[MiriamS]

I have tons of Baytril and am still happy to come up and visit. Have you seen the video of the clicking pneumonia squirrel? Give me a call if you'd like me to come bring you the medicine. I'm happy to do so.

[daniellenc]

Baytril is bye bye or else I would be dumpster diving right now. No vet's technically see squirrels in MD though there is a place in Virginia that gets terrible reviews, but my vet and a small mammal vet I have worked for probably will dispense the meds....at least I am hoping. I don't know anyone with cipro and my neighbor may have doxy but I refuse to use that stuff unless I have no other options. He is 5 weeks old and my wonky scale is on the fritz- new one already ordered but not here till Wednesday. The Cefdinir I have is also a no go I just opened it and it isn't smelling like usual:(

[HRT4SQRLS]

You are Da Bomb Miriam !:thankyou

[daniellenc]

Miriam S is a godsend and on her way with some Baytril :thankyou

[SammysMom]

Miriam YOU ROCK!!! :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug
I just love the TSB members!!!

[daniellenc]

I feel like I am having a heart attack but Miriam will be here soon with meds so I am breathing. Temp boosted in room and if I wasn't well versed in pneumonia I wouldn't have thought anything was wrong he is still quite active and happy for now.

[pappy1264]

Way to go, Miriam! She knows her stuff, you are in good hands. Prayers going out.

[daniellenc]

Miriam just left and yes his clicking is barely audible but present which means we caught it super early. Would love to confirm dosing with Jackie from Tampa but I know that book is really really good, j/k I hear she is swamped with babies so for tonight I think we are good. He sucked down .02 ml's like it was candy, we put him in a smaller container, and bumped his temps up a little more. Feeding is in 30 minutes so we'll see how he eats but from his gusto with the Baytril I think he'll eat just fine:)

Thank you Miriam again for coming out so late on a Saturday night and sharing your Baytril with me we greatly appreciate it:):thankyou

[MiriamS]

:wave123 Danielle, it was great to meet you. Just to clarify, it was 0.2mL of Baytril. You certainly know your stuff though and squeeps, this woman was a vet tech and had experience and knowledge I can only dream about. Stepnstone brought her a great release cage and I dropped off some Baytril and helped Danielle set up a slightly warmer enclosure.

She is to be highly commended for hearing the clicking so early because it was indeed, barely audible. Her babies look great and will do just fine. Also worth noting that on my way home I realized Danielle lives five minutes from UDoWhat who has everything under the sun that a squirrel person could ever need. All in all, I think we have a new member of the Maryland squirrel community. :thumbsup

[stepnstone]

Thank you Miriam for responding to the call with the baytril... :thumbsup

Danielle you need to take some deep breaths...
If you had called I was still right down the road, I always carry my kit/supplies. All in all I'm glad you caught it so fast and got what was needed. :grouphug

[daniellenc]

I didn't want to ruin your family evening Russel and would have felt terrible if I was wrong about the pneumonia, lol. He was so perky and wonderful this afternoon but went downhill fast. I just got done feeding and he took 2 cc's only which is unheard of for him- hope that baytril kicks in ASAP. I will try and get some water in him in about an hour hydration right now is more important than anything with him being sick. Hoping my Fox Valley formula is here by Tuesday as estimated along with the nipples and extra 1 cc syringes. Also hoping baby girl does not come down with this as well.

While he was eating tonight I saw what I believe is a sign his breathing is off because he couldn't swallow without me taking the syringe out and him licking it down. So while his mouth isn't gaping gaping he's not breathing out of his nose well at all.

How often do you suggest I try to administer water?
How often for formula?
What are my goal amounts to sustain basic hydration?
When should I expect him to start perking back up?

Sorry for all the questions just trying to stay a step ahead:thankyou

[daniellenc]

Well he didn't want water either couldn't he have waited till Monday to get sick?? I will feed again at 4 am and hope the baytril has started to work. If not I'll have to find subq's tomorrow because the gauges I have here are waaaaay too big for his tiny behind and I don't need dehydration and pneumonia complicating things. I know he needs to rest and remain unstressed so if anyone sees my above questions please respond because I don't want to make matters worse by shoving food and water in his face too often:(

[stepnstone]

My son would have understood, he knows how I am... Of course it may have seemed strange to my future daughter in law's parents since this was our first time meeting them. :sanp3
I do appreciate your consideration... It was a wonderful evening and I'm so proud of my son... :Love_Icon

As for baby boy, I'm sorry this has happened but we all know how quickly things can change for these little ones. Of course his breathing will be off having pneumonia and you will have to go slow(er) with feeding him. I would do his normal feedings, of course he may not consume a normal feeding until he starts feeling better. You can hydrate in-between feedings as long as you feel it's necessary, but nourishment from his formula is just as necessary.
In lue of breathing treatment if you deem his breathing has become a hardship, steam up your bathroom and sit with him for 10 - 15 minutes at a time to help ease his breathing. Be very careful to keep him bungled up and warm as you do not want him to catch a chill.
A rule of thumb is things should turn around in 48hrs. Baytril normally is not given for more then 5 days as long as improvement is showing, most times that's all it takes to work.
As far as baby girl coming down with it is unlikely unless she were to get it under the same circumstance. Of course that could also depend on the type as well as cause of pneumonia. Besides aspiration there are other causes such as bacterial, fungal, viral, even parasitic. However, aspiration is the most common cause with hand fed babies. It not only can be caused by baby being fed too much too fast, it can also be caused by baby sucking too hard. If I remember correctly you did mention something of this. I would watch and listen to baby girl closely but the important thing now is to get the little boy on the road to recovery.

[daniellenc]

4 am feeding is complete and he ate 5cc's!! Only heard a few clicks so already sounding better but both suck so hard I can hear all the air extra air they are taking in-and probably getting formula in all the wrong places. I do dispense and pull away after each little sip but that is met with resistance I think making them go after it even more.

One more question is when they pee they are wet after despite my attempts to aim it away from their skin pee flies everywhere including on their belly and back legs. I use my finger to aim the tail away and do dry them off but they are not 100% dry and aside from it being unsanitary since urine is only sterile before it hits the air I am worried about this causing a chill. Am I crazy or is there a better way to keep them dry?

[MiriamS]

4 am feeding is complete and he ate 5cc's!! Only heard a few clicks so already sounding better
:thumbsup :alright.gif :multi

See, I told ya the Baytril would work immediately. You caught the clicking so soon that I would have been worried if it hadn't subsided within twelve hours given the fast Baytril administering. Now take the two deep breaths that Stepnstone suggested and let's answer some of your questions.

Honestly, they are so skinny that I would feed them 5cc formula every three hours and 5cc water/Pedialyte in between. This only needs to happen for a day or two until they get rehydrated and a little plumper. If they don't seem interested in water, try Pedialyte because it's a little sweeter. Based on what I saw, the dehydration isn't at a critical point so don't overworry (Ha, I know). It's just good to get them hydrated as fast as possible especially given that one is sick. I wouldn't worry about sub'Qing unless he stops eating.

The peeing...is messy. I usually stimulate over a paper towel and if I've got a sprayer, I sort of bunch the towel around to catch the spray. That said, it's really not the end of the world if little legs get wet. You just wipe them off with paper towel or tissue and put them back in the warm nest.

Speaking of, how's the warmth situation? It should indeed feel warm when you stick your hand in the fleece. If it's too warm, the babies will tell you by climbing out of their cloth and sitting on top. Again, don't worry too much because you're so on top of things and careful that you're not going to cook them!

Oh, and they will be enthusiastic aggressive little eaters. Don't worry about them getting air while they're sucking the life out of that syringe. As long as they are either vertical with the syringe at a 45 degree angle or lying sprawled out sucking on the syringe horizontally, they'll be fine. They can burp on their own. If one aspirates formula out of its nose, just wipe it off and try to go a little slower. It's probably a good idea to go slower with the little boy that he would prefer to give him time to breathe in between, since he's sick.

You're doing great Danielle.:bowdown

[daniellenc]

Thank you Miriam the kids both ate 6cc's at 10 this morning and he fought me on his second dose of baytril, but no fear he did not win. I would put a drop in and rub his chin so he had to lick and swallow. There is no clicking this morning and he ate his formula ravenously as usual, peed, and is tucked away sleeping as I type.

Neither is staying on the heated section and temp gunning I am getting temps from 88-92. They are however hovering right on the edge of it and burrowed down to the bottom so I think they are warm enough.

I will go to every 3 hours during the day and see if they will eat that often- new scale should be here no later than Wednesday and hopefully my Fox Valley is here by then- Nick said Tuesday/Wednesday so once I get an accurate weight I will feel better about how much to feed. Bloat scares me but I don't want to starve them either:(

Now my question on poop- yes everyone loves poop, lol. I have watched neonate videos where they seem to poop like 20+ pellets per stimulation- I am getting only 4-6 with a pellet here and there found in the cage. They were beyond dehydrated by the time we found them and so bony we were surprised they made it the first night. So I know their little bodies are making less waste because they were emaciated and absorbing these feedings, but tonight will be day 3 on formula. When am I going to be blessed with the big poops??:D

I stimulate for 2-3 minutes before each feeding, and another 5 minutes after. Is this too short of a time??

[daniellenc]

Bought the cheapy CVS heating pad and set that up....temp gun tells me it is getting as hot as 112.8 degrees but they do appear to move to and from the warm spot so I am relaxing on temps a bit. Both the munchkins ate another 5cc's at 1, and will be fed again at 4. Nikolai is still not clicking so I feel much much better about a positive outcome-I used to feed rodents (rats/mice) to snakes and now I am in love.....my snake friends are getting a real kick out of this:D

[MiriamS]

They like the warmth! :thumbsup They'd be in a tiny nest curled up against Mom's warm body so the cheapo CVS pad is great as long as it doesn't shut off and you have it half under. But I know you know all of that. I think it's awesome you have a temperature gun! :D

[daniellenc]

It is the stay on type and seems to be working fine right now. I tried to feed at 4 but neither was interested, tried at 5 but again not to interested; so I will try a little later. Both ate a huge meal at 1 so they may be full. They did get some scamper around the room time since both were awake and active at 5 when I attempted a feeding and even paused to take big old pees on my carpet cause apparently that is better than a fleece blanket.

I try not to worry when they don't chow down, but I checked the temps, the formula is fresh made, and warm to the touch but not hot. I got about 1 cc in them before the scrambled away to roam the room. I may invest in an indoor pen with roof or tent that zips shut?? Anyone have any experience with these??

[MiriamS]

If they don't seem interested in eating when they otherwise would be, you could try stimulating them before food to empty them out. I let mine run around the carpet no pen or anything. Usually they don't pee but I guess yours wanted to say a special thank you for taking care of them. :osnap

[daniellenc]

I always stimulate before and after I think getting 2 meals so close together has them topped off- the male especially left quite the puddle for such a small guy, lol. Will be trying again at 7 I know in my kittens at least some meals they ate great but others hey just weren't into it. Seems letting them wait till the next feeding time was always good because they were always hungry by then so hopefully this will be the case- we'll see. I did get his meds in though and still no clicking.

[MiriamS]

Excellent.

[daniellenc]

Fatty Nikolai ate 6 cc's and little Miranda 4cc's and she pooped a good amount for me. I think they are peeing on their own for sure but other than a few pellets I find in the cage it seems both poop most on me:D Did I mention I like the smell of squirrel pee?? Kinda sweet, lol

[Milo's Mom]

hehehehehe, yes, there is something about the smell of squirrel pee...kind of sweet and a little nutty/woodsy smelling. You ought to see my head spin when I am in a store and get a quick whiff of "squirrel"...I've been known to follow people quietly sniffing them.

OMG! That sounds so freakish...guess you just have to be there. I've never asked anyone about it, but I am POSITIVE that I've sniffed squirrel on people out in public.

[HRT4SQRLS]

OMG! That sounds so freakish...guess you just have to be there. I've never asked anyone about it, but I am POSITIVE that I've sniffed squirrel on people out in public.

Note to MM. Please don't ask! :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :jump :jump :jump :rofl4 :rofl4 :rofl4

[daniellenc]

Yes totally sweet and nutty in a musky good way, lol. I was feeling odd for actually liking the smell ty MM for making me feel normal:rotfl

[MiriamS]

I've been known to follow people quietly sniffing them
:rofl4 funniest thing I've heard all day


Yes Danielle, isn't squirrel pee so much prettier than kitten pee? The :poop is innocuous also.