Tia-eye getting bigger by the minute! Help!

[msriri]

Her left eye is bulging! I noticed this last night and it has gotten progressively worse every time I check in her!
Her left nostril is runny also!
She is 5 weeks tomorrow, so I was hoping this was just an issue with her eyes opening soon.
I hAve baytril, albon and sulpha..... Should I start her on something? Warm compress maybe?
She has been a dream and I hate for something to go wrong now.

Computer is SLOWLY downloading pics now, but I could email one ASAP to someone to post.

Please help!

[msriri]

for some reason I can't copy and paste the url from photobucket to the attachments.

[stepnstone]

Save them yo your computer then send me the pics and I'll post them stepnstone08@hotmail.com

[msriri]

Here are pics from this morning and now....(ignore the black walnut stains on my fingers,lol)

[msriri]

:dono

[stepnstone]

Sounds like a fluid build up for some reason. Wet and warm a pad of gauze or cotton for a compress and hold it on the eye to see if that will help for now until maybe someone who has seen this before can respond.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:shakehead :dono
proptosis?
hyperocular issue?
this suddenness would make me believe that there is an abcsess of the sinus..hence the runny nose....
do you have any human meds?
do you have antibiotics? what? are they fresh?
do you have any steroids?
what? what milgram?
do you have an pain aid Rx? infant ibuprophen..metacam?
do you have a vet?
what you have on hand is very important, what friends have etc..
if you have a vet...tell them it is urgent and you need to be seen asap..

[stepnstone]

Bonnie Beaver, BS, DVM, MS:
Baby animals can get eye infections even though their eyes remain closed and that is most likely what you are seeing. This is generally uncomfortable and if left untreated for a long time can damage the eye. The problem is most likely to occur shortly before or just after the eyes become unsealed. An eye formulated antibiotic ointment would be the treatment of choice because most of these are caused by a bacterial infection. There are, however, a few cases where the cause is related to a viral infection for which antibiotics do not work. Washing away the exudate once the eye opens is also appropriate so that the skin doesn't become irritated

[msriri]

Jackie: I have all fresh meds.....Baytril, Albon, sulpha......Metacam and infant Ibuprophen for pain. I have dosages from sr&b2. I did look up Proptosis....She fell at 2 days old, she is 5 wks tomorrow....so you think it would show u this late?
I got fluid out after compress...white, so it has shrunk, but it did hurt her.

My vet has made it clear that he will ONLY do my euthanizing...nothing else :(

[stepnstone]

Seeing fluid says you have a slight opening, keep up with the warm compress to expell more of the obvious infection.
Do not press/put pressure on the eye, you do not want to damage it. If you can get hold of an eye formulated antibiotic ointment
and gently push into the opening where the fluid leaks would be most benificial.

[Jackie in Tampa]

don't mash it...:peace :shakehead
white????..pus? smell?


okay smell his nostril?:tilt any funk?
I also believe what step has posted as a possibility too..
================================

Proptosis, also known as exophthalmos, is a bulging of one or both of the eyes. While some people naturally have eyes that seem to bulge due to variations in our anatomy, others can develop the condition. If a person suddenly develops proptosis, it is considered serious. Sudden onsets of proptosis should always be evaluated by an eye doctor.
What Causes Proptosis?

One of the most common causes of bilateral (both eyes) bulging eyes is a thyroid condition referred to as Graves Disease (http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hyperthyrdgraves/a/graves.htm). In Graves disease, swelling, fibrosis and scarring may occur within the eye muscles surrounding the eye. This crowds the bony orbit where the eye sits, causing the eyes to bulge forward.

When a person develops unilateral (one eye) proptosis, medical testing is recommended quickly as this can be a sign of a serious medical condition. Unilateral proptosis can result from a sinus infection (http://allergies.about.com/od/noseandsinusallergies/a/sinusitis.htm) that has spread into the orbit creating an abscess. Unilateral proptosis can also be caused by trauma, inflammation, arterio-venus malformations, orbital tumors and cancer. Evaluating Proptosis

When proptosis is mild, a doctor may measure the degree of bulging with a ruler or an exophthalmometer. If measurements are outside of normal ranges, more testing may be recommended. Tests may include an MRI, blood work, ultrasound or even a biopsy.
Is Proptosis Serious?

Proptosis can impact the eyes in several different ways. First, because the bulging orbit may elevate the pressure behind the eye, pressure inside the eye may increase. The pressure inside of the eye is known as intraocular pressure. When intraocular pressure increases, risk for developing glaucoma also increases.

When proptosis occurs, the eyelids may not be able to close completely during normal blinking or sleeping, causing the cornea (http://vision.about.com/od/visionglossary/g/Cornea.htm) to dry out significantly. This dryness is not only uncomfortable, but scarring can also occur which could lead to permanent vision loss. Artificial tears or gels should be inserted several times per day to alleviate discomfort and protect the cornea from severely drying out. Patches may also be worn at night while sleeping to keep the eyes moist. In severe cases, eye movement may even be affected, causing double vision (http://vision.about.com/od/eyediseasesandconditions/g/Diplopia.htm). What Can You Do?

Treating proptosis is centered around finding the underlying cause. In the case of thyroid disease, medications may be all that is needed to reduce the proptosis. In extreme cases, surgery may be needed.

[msriri]

No smell..... Gently holding compress..... Not much coming out anymore. Think it hurts... Lots of grunts

[jbtartell]

yes a warm compress.. poor baby.. maybe a vet visit if it gets worse..

[msriri]

She occasionally snoffs and a little white mucus comes out of her left nostril. Very little out of her eye now.
What, if any meds should I give?

[stepnstone]

She occasionally snoffs and a little white mucus comes out of her left nostril. Very little out of her eye now.
What, if any meds should I give?

It is all related, gently flush out her nostril with a little saline and try to keep it clear as well.
I would periodically keep up with the warm compress to keep pressure off the eye and let drain what will, in the meantime locate an antibiotic ointment that can be used for the eye. The ointment can not only help heal it will help it to drain. If the eyes are close to opening, hopefully it will be soon and you can wash the gunk out and speed up the healing with the use of the antibiotic (eye) ointment.
Keep all that you are doing for the one eye away from the other, you do not want to risk spreading to the other eye. Also I would keep bedding changed so as not to spread any bacteria.

Got to step out, will check back in a while. Get that ointment, good luck... :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

I will post some info from the vet web...tough reading but generally gives most options and ideas to treatments:thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

===============



TRAUMATIC ORBITAL DISEASES
Proptosis





is forward displacement of the eye from the orbit. It is seen commonly
with retrobulbar hemorrhage and edema following trauma. Often, there is sufficient
trauma to cause stretching and/or tearing of extraocular muscles. Proptosis occurs
fairly commonly in dogs (especially brachycephalics). Proptosed eyes should be
evaluated for hyphema (blood inside the eye), pupil size, pupillary light responses,
extraocular muscle damage, and duration of proptosis. All proptosed eyes should be
fluorescein stained to evaluate for corneal ulceration. If there are favorable
prognostic indicators (absence of hyphema, short duration, muscles intact, miotic
pupil) the eye should be replaced. Most proptosed eyes do not regain vision
unfortunately.
Keep the eye moist pre-surgically; this is something the owner can do on the way to
the emergency clinic. Gently remove debris with copious sterile saline flushes. If the
animal is stable enough to handle a short general anesthetic episode, replace the
eye, performing a lateral canthotomy if necessary. A complete temporary
tarsorrhaphy is performed and the sutures are kept in place 1-3 weeks (until lid
tension is minimal). Replace the suture if lagophthalmos is present. Traumatic
strabismus (usually esotropia or lateral deviation) may be corrected it still present
after 6-8 weeks. Maintain medical treatment with systemic antibiotics, topical
antibiotic ointment and atropine. Systemic anti-inflammatory drugs may be used to




help decrease severe swelling of the periocular tissue.

[msriri]

Thanks to both of you!
The proptosis info is very scary....any chance this is just sinus infection and not as severe as that?

No to the antibiotic? Metacam? or Ibuphrophen?

Will have Rx ointment today also.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thanks to both of you!
The proptosis info is very scary....any chance this is just sinus infection and not as severe as that?

No to the antibiotic? Metacam? or Ibuphrophen?

Will have Rx ointment today also.
would it need to be optical eye ointment?
IDK? just thinking his eyes look very much about to open and would worry, it's my nature.
I would give meds..especially since you cannot get vett'ed.
I was hoping others would post info and experience as well.

Once you give the metacam, no steroids should be given for 24-30 hours.
I would hate to advise you what to treat with, only to find it counterproductive or a better med/treatment available/advised..and I would not try to diagnose the issue either..just not experienced enough.
You should never you metacam {NSAID} and steroids {dex or pred} together.

I can hang out and help do some research between babies and cages.
I found some other info..that MAY apply.

[Jackie in Tampa]

ORBIT Proptosis

Blunt or penetrating trauma may cause significant orbital trauma. Ocular proptosis results when the equator of the globe advances beyond the margin of the palpebral fissure. Proptosis carries a guarded to grave prognosis depending on breed-related conformational differences. In dolichocephalic breeds, the globe is well-situated deep in the orbit with minimal exposure except for the cornea. The physical force required to proptose these globes is considerable, especially when compared with the relative ease with which some canine globes can be extruded from the orbit, most notably in the brachycephalic breeds such as the Pekingese and Shih Tzu.
When presented with a proptosis, assessment and stabilization of the entire patient is paramount in addition to treatment of the ocular abnormality. If the dog or cat has sustained a proptosis as a result of a severe concussive injury, the practitioner should first treat the patient for any signs of shock, cerebral edema or hemorrhage, and respiratory or cardiovascular compromise. Careful examination for facial deformities, epistaxis, crepitus, and subcutaneous edema will help determine the extent of the damage. Ancillary diagnostics including skull radiographs or computed tomography (CT) may identify orbital factures or retained foreign material requiring orbital reconstruction or exploration and may be needed once the patient is stabilized adequately.
Traumatic proptosis results in compromise of the globe’s vascular supply and significant peribulbar swelling rapidly ensues. Extraocular muscles may be avulsed, resulting in permanent strabismus. The optic nerve will have been stretched, potentially resulting in blindness of the affected eye, but may also adversely impact vision of the contralateral eye due to traction across the optic chiasm. Immediate ocular therapy should focus on keeping the globe moist; therefore owners should be advised to lubricate the globe during transport. Negative prognostic indicators for salvage of the globe include rupture of three or more extraocular muscles, lack of a consensual pupillary light reflex to the contralateral eye, corneal laceration that extends past the limbus, and extensive hyphema. Providing the patient is stable for general anesthesia and the globe is deemed salvageable, surgery should be promptly undertaken to replace the globe. The eye and periocular tissues should be cleaned with a dilute (1:50) povidineiodine solution and sterile saline. Lateral canthotomy should be performed to facilitate globe replacement in the vast majority of cases. Following globe replacement, temporary tarsorrhaphy is performed by placing three or four horizontal mattress sutures of 4-0 or 5-0 silk with stents (eg, sectioned IV tubing) to prevent eyelid tissue necrosis. A small area (2–4 mm) at the medial canthus may be left open to facilitate application of topical medications. Proper placement of mattress sutures requires careful attention. The needle should be inserted 5–7 mm from the eyelid margin and exit at, or just external to, the opening of the meibomian glands but inside the cilia. If sutures are placed too far external, entropion will result; however sutures that are placed internal to the opening of the meibomian glands will rub on the cornea and cause severe corneal ulceration. The canthotomy incision should be closed in two layers. This author advocates leaving all sutures in place for 10 to 14 days. Premature removal of the tarsorrhaphy sutures may result in re-proptosis due to significant peribulbar edema and hemorrhage. Intravenous broad spectrum antibiotics and systemic antiinflammatory corticosteroids are recommended at the time of surgery to prevent secondary infection and reduce both periocular and intraocular inflammation. Many ophthalmologists also advocate the use of broad-spectrum oral antibiotics and a tapering dose of oral corticosteroids for 7 to 10 days after surgery. Topical treatment (instilled at the medial canthus) with 4 times daily broad spectrum antibiotics and 1 to 3 times daily topical atropine for uveitis is also recommended while the sutures are in place. Prognosis for return of vision is guarded to grave in any animal with traumatic proptosis.

[Jackie in Tampa]

this is mostly jibberish about removing eye and replacing...but it does help to understand the anatomy and basic info about why the eye could be bulging..
hang on...will look at optical tumors

anything putting pressure on the sinus can make it drain...so that is just not enough info to do fast research...
dang
brb

[Jackie in Tampa]

Exophthalmos

Exophthalmos (abnormal protrusion of the eye) may have a sudden onset or be a slowly progressive disease that the owner appreciates as a sudden change in the pet’s appearance, and thus present to the practioner as an emergency. Exophthalmos is caused by an accumulation of fluid (air, edema, hemorrhage) or cells (inflammatory, neoplastic) within the intraconal or extraconal space. The location and nature of the infiltrate will alter the appearance of the eye and may affect the overall health of the animal at presentation. Orbital cellulitis and retrobulbar infections are usually associated with severe pain upon opening the mouth or when retropulsion of the globe is attempted. Patients may be febrile, anorexic, and lethargic. Thorough oral examination is an essential component to the workup of exophthalmos to look for evidence of tooth root abscessation or fluctuant swelling behind the last molar tooth in the upper arcade. If the latter finding is noted, while under general anesthesia, drainage may be attempted via a small mucosal stab incision into the pterygopalatine fossa and careful insertion of a closed hemostat into the orbit, with slight opening of the hemostat upon withdrawal from the orbit. Cytology and bacterial culture and sensitivity should be obtained and gentle lavage with sterile saline may promote drainage. Systemic antibiotic treatment based on results of diagnostic testing is indicated for 2 to 4 weeks.
Retrobulbar neoplasia is typically more slowly progressive and not associated with severe acute pain upon opening the mouth. Often, advanced imaging techniques such as orbital ultrasound, CT scan, or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) are required to effectively delineate the extent of involvement and to aid in surgical planning for biopsy or debulking. Therapy will vary depending on the type of neoplasia, extent of local involvement, and overall health of the animal. While orbital neoplasia does not usually represent a true ocular emergency per se, adverse sequelae from prolonged globe exposure may lead to secondary conditions such as corneal ulceration which threaten the health of the eye.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Exophthalmos

Exophthalmos (abnormal protrusion of the eye) may have a sudden onset or be a slowly progressive disease that the owner appreciates as a sudden change in the pet’s appearance, and thus present to the practioner as an emergency. Exophthalmos is caused by an accumulation of fluid (air, edema, hemorrhage) or cells (inflammatory, neoplastic) within the intraconal or extraconal space. The location and nature of the infiltrate will alter the appearance of the eye and may affect the overall health of the animal at presentation. Orbital cellulitis and retrobulbar infections are usually associated with severe pain upon opening the mouth or when retropulsion of the globe is attempted. Patients may be febrile, anorexic, and lethargic. Thorough oral examination is an essential component to the workup of exophthalmos to look for evidence of tooth root abscessation or fluctuant swelling behind the last molar tooth in the upper arcade. If the latter finding is noted, while under general anesthesia, drainage may be attempted via a small mucosal stab incision into the pterygopalatine fossa and careful insertion of a closed hemostat into the orbit, with slight opening of the hemostat upon withdrawal from the orbit. Cytology and bacterial culture and sensitivity should be obtained and gentle lavage with sterile saline may promote drainage. Systemic antibiotic treatment based on results of diagnostic testing is indicated for 2 to 4 weeks.
Retrobulbar neoplasia is typically more slowly progressive and not associated with severe acute pain upon opening the mouth. Often, advanced imaging techniques such as orbital ultrasound, CT scan, or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) are required to effectively delineate the extent of involvement and to aid in surgical planning for biopsy or debulking. Therapy will vary depending on the type of neoplasia, extent of local involvement, and overall health of the animal. While orbital neoplasia does not usually represent a true ocular emergency per se, adverse sequelae from prolonged globe exposure may lead to secondary conditions such as corneal ulceration which threaten the health of the eye.
this is a possibility too..
does he appear to be in pain when he yawns? or opens his mouth wide?

[msriri]

Wow.... Youre good at the research!
No pain except when I was holding the compress and now only if the eye is touched directly. It looks good after draining and drying.
She is the opposite of anorexic and lethargic, pretty chunky. The proptosis seems more likely if you think it could show up so long after her fall?
She seems in great health otherwise. Maybe this cooincides with her top teeth coming in in some way?

[Jackie in Tampa]

you have sulfatrim?

[msriri]

Yes :)... I got sulphatrim dosage of .01 per 20g..... Twice daily.... Tia is 156
Have baytril 10% also.... Says 100mg per 1 ml..... Break down and dose .01mg per 20g twice daily also.

[Jackie in Tampa]

not saying you should..
but I would give sulfatrim..
It is obvious that someone has helped you with dosing..
that person would know the mg/ml info to help you...
or you could go with their chart and give 0.075ml

is it a pink sweet and sticky syrup?
do you have the original container from vet or pharmacy?

anyone else agreee or disagree?:poke

[msriri]

Yes, Pink and sticky. It was shared with me.... Bottle is with another rehabber.
Dosage from wild mammals book.

[Jackie in Tampa]

well I know the hot compresses will help amd sooth and draw too...
and if it is a bacterial abcsess, it hurts...
so give him some pain aid...hoping someone knows more what it could be..
I am a common sense sq nerd...not a rehabber...not medical.
wish I did have something solid for you, I would be concerned as well.
:grouphug

[msriri]

Ive read a few posts about this happening....nothing ever concrete to go by. Thanks for all the info and concern!

I have to leave her for a 6 hour shift .... She is comfy and drained. Praying the meds work and it doesn't fill up again :shakehead

[Jackie in Tampa]

Ive read a few posts about this happening....nothing ever concrete to go by. Thanks for all the info and concern!

I have to leave her for a 6 hour shift .... She is comfy and drained. Praying the meds work and it doesn't fill up again :shakeheadplease update us when you can...hugs to your baby...

[stepnstone]

Granted, not all cases are the same but this is not such an uncommon problem as one would think with babies who are close to eyes opening. Unless it's a life threatening situation I personally like to look at the common causes and solutions before concerning myself with the worst case scenarios. Not trying to just simplify things, just a personal preference to attempt to first medicate topically when possible before internally where medications have to be run through the kidneys.

If an anti biotic ointment were to be used, it does need to be an opthalmic ointment. Preferably a Triple Antibiotic Ophthalmic Ointment (for animals) which is a combination of Neomycin, Polymyxin B, and Bacitracin. It works on several different kinds of bacteria to treat bacterial infections of the eyes and eyelids, results can be apparent within 48 hours.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Granted, not all cases are the same but this is not such an uncommon problem as one would think with babies who are close to eyes opening. Unless it's a life threatening situation I personally like to look at the common causes and solutions before concerning myself with the worst case scenarios. Not trying to just simplify things, just a personal preference to attempt to first medicate topically when possible before internally where medications have to be run through the kidneys.

If an anti biotic ointment were to be used, it does need to be an opthalmic ointment. Preferably a Triple Antibiotic Ophthalmic Ointment (for animals) which is a combination of Neomycin, Polymyxin B, and Bacitracin. It works on several different kinds of bacteria to treat bacterial infections of the eyes and eyelids, results can be apparent within 48 hours.there ya go...good advise...:bowdown

[msriri]

That certainly is a positive outlook....lets hope this was something simple.

She looked good last night and again this morning. There was a tiny drop of fluid in the corner of her eye, but thats all and it doesnt seem to be filling up again.
She's 5 wks today so Im hoping she opens them so we can see whats going on under there. Im praying there is no damage to her vision. It doesnt seem to hurt her at all now and I will keep it drained. Nothing out of the nose at all either :thumbsup
I have an Rx ointment, but was thinking to wait until the eyes open? I have used a warmed saline solution up til now.

[stepnstone]

Continue with the warm compress periodically, you do not want it to start building up again. Draining is good but it's only relieving the pressure, it is not killing the bacteria that caused the problem in the first place. As soon as the eyes are open, flush the eye, use the ointment.

[msriri]

Thanks for everyones help all the time! Don't know what I would do without TSB!
An update on Tias eye.....
Yesterday, she opened the bad one...I assume it opened early because of the warm compresses for two days. Its cloudy :( .....I can't tell 100% if she can see out of it and Im hoping after a full round of ABs that maybe it will go away? Or is this irreversable damage?
Im posting some close ups from yesterday and today.....and also some happier pics on her thread.

[pappy1264]

Awww, sweet baby. Peanut is blind in one eye (he developed a cataract when he was a year old). Hopefully others with some experience will chime in. she is a doll.

[patjones]

Look at those big feet if squirrels follow the puppy rule that is going to be a giant squirrel. You might as well move out now and give him the house

[daniellenc]

A cloudy eye can be caused by bacterial infection, corneal ulcers, and/or injury so blindness isn't a definite. If it is caused by infection and your using the correct ointment it should clear as the infection does. If it is an ulcer than surgery is necessary or blindness will occur not to mention the pressure is painful for the animal. I have some links pertaining to rats if your interested:
http://www.sandyscrittercity.com/eyeinfections.htm
http://www.rattyrat.com/guidebook/health.html#eye

Definitely get a culture done if you can even though your vet doesn't work with squirrels a culture is a culture so he can surely run it for you:)

[Jackie in Tampa]

Look at those big feet if squirrels follow the puppy rule that is going to be a giant squirrel. You might as well move out now and give him the houseand cute BIG feet at that!
not to mention that gorgeous orange belly...:Love_Icon