Solid Poop, struggling issue, and mild cough/sneeze

[Thumper33]

A few issues recently, and I need some advice.

I thought I was past the dehydration issues I've had with pinky, who is now 4.5 weeks old. She's now been on Fox Valley for maybe a week I'm guessing and she's been getting a mix at 3:1 since she had dehydration issues previously. I'm concerned that she's becoming dehydrated again.

When she defecates, the poop is a nice "burnt orange" color, but they're almost as dry as I can imagine them being. They come out about 1/16th in diameter, and 3/16th - 1/4" in length.

When I pick her up to feed her, I try to stimulate before I feed, but she is royally pissed at that, and just wants to squirm violently until I feed. So then I feed her, and she'll usually resist the normal feeding position until I actually get some food into her mouth when she'll actually relax and start to drink. Usually in the mean time she's pooped and peed some from the struggle, so I'll try to clean her up before I grab the next syringe. She'll groan and struggle again until I get more food into her. If the temp of the food gets at all lower than normal because it's taking too long, she'll struggle and refuse again.

I guess I'm looking for tips to get her to feed normally. Maybe she's just not ready for the 4 hour intervals yet and she's freaking out hungry?

Also looking to find out if the solid poop is normal? I would think not. It actually makes a noise when it falls into the sink while feeding. Clink Clink.

Also on my list is an occasional cough/sneeze. They seem to almost always be right after I feed, and it's only a couple of times maybe a minute apart. I don't hear any "clicking" so I'm thinking it's not pneumonia...yet anyway. Thoughts?

Thanks all... I'd say this has all been going on for a couple of days or so, but I was hoping that things would stabilize after the change in formula.


Mike

[island rehabber]

Mike, I'm not at all being dismissive of your concerns but what I'm reading here sounds normal to me -- completely. Some babies are wonderful to feed....they stay put, they draw steadily on the syringe, they stop when they're full and proceed to practically pee & poop on their own, even when tiny! Then, there are the others.....
*The Stevie Wonders: The head wags every which way except where the syringe is. It's like threading a needle on a roller coaster, and they get pissed at you, too :D. They are no better once their eyes open, I'm afraid....:sanp3
*The Constant Commentators: they 'talk' while eating, and therefore splutter and choke themselves but somehow they don't figure out that being quiet would help:D
*The Drive-By's: They take a slurp, drop it, run around, run up your shirt, go behind your neck, come back, take a slurp.....you get the picture.

All normal. Remember that fussing often means "I want more but I'm not sure where the heck it is...." vs. "I don't want any more." Bottom line, don't take "NO" for an answer from a baby squirrel. :rotfl

[Pond Luvr]

The mental image still has me grinning and chuckling!!! LMAO What perfect discriptions!!!

It's like threading a needle on a roller coaster,

*The Constant Commentators: they 'talk' while eating, and therefore splutter and choke themselves but somehow they don't figure out that being quiet would help
*The Drive-By's: They take a slurp, drop it, run around, run up your shirt, go behind your neck, come back, take a slurp.....you get the picture.

[pappy1264]

If you are concerned with possible dehydration, in between normal feedings, pop a cc of straight water into her, that way she gets extra fluids, but she gets her calories from her formula. Yup, IR is right on the mark!

[Thumper33]

Ha Ha... thanks for that... :)

Should I go back to 2:1 mixture then if I'm going to add a 1 cc shot of H2O between feedings?

[pappy1264]

How much is she getting per feeding and how long between feedings and what is her weight? Has she been gaining steadily?

[Thumper33]

I keep meaning to get a scale but I have not. I know its a poor excuse, but I've been paying special attention to how she looks and I can see her growing daily. The "fullness" of her body has been pretty consistent. I have zero concern that she's starving.

I usually make up 3 syringes at 2.5 mils. She aggressively and mess...illy? eats all three. However... I'm sure at least 1-2 mils end up all down the front of her. She is the messiest eater. I'm trying to keep the feeding up at a 45* angle per suggestions, and a bunch comes right out her mouth. I keep telling her that its way more efficient to eat by closing your mouth but apparently she has yet to learn english. Anyway, it makes it a little difficult to judge.

My best guess though, is that she gets about 4-6 mils per feeding. Occasionally she'll get full and fall asleep. Seems rare lately though.

Tell ya what.. I'll take my excuses to the store today and get a scale. :)

[pappy1264]

Yes, you really should be using a scale (make sure it measures in grams). You mentioned a sneeze/cough, did she aspirate formula? With you description of alot of it getting all over her, I wonder if you are going a little too fast? What size syringes are you using?

[Thumper33]

She is 85 grams. Her presumed 5 weeks is Thursday. :)

She has asparated formula, but it's been quite a while... maybe 3 weeks ago. I'm using 3 cc syringes. I do feel like I'm feeding fast, but if I slow down she jerks her head away and squirms, and then I have to thread the needle on the roller coaster again. Even then, she keeps jerking away until I actually get some food into her mouth, so as long as I can keep her sucking and not squirming without asperation I think that's my best bet. I'm all about learning if I'm I'm doing something wrong. I plan to take a video at some point so people can see whats going on.

Mike

[Thumper33]

oh... so ...

85 grams... that means she should get 4.25 cc of formula even if she's screaming mad wanting more?

[pappy1264]

That is 5%, you can do up t 7%, which for 85 grams is 5.95 cc's, so if she is really wanting more, you can go up a little more (some are just piggier then others. If alot is getting on her, then she is not getting the 4.25 to begin with, either. Weigh her every day, you want to see a 3-6 (or more) gram gain per day, as a general rule (the bigger they are, the more they eat, the more they gain.) So first thing in the am, potty her, then weigh her and adjust her food amounts as needed, then feed that amount for that day, recheck next day and go up as needed. I find when they pull off, I let the sort of squirm for a bit. Just like some babies, some just need to fuss a bit no matter what, so I let them. Also if her formula is cooling off, she will pull off, too, so you may want to have two syringes to go back and forth with (I am assuming you are keeping them in hot water with something over them to keep them warm?) At 5 weeks, 85 is on the lower end of the scale, so keep a good eye on her weight. If she is fussy at meals and you cannot get her to finish her meal, sometimes giving fluids in between meals can help, as sometimes they can get a little dehydrated, esp. if they have had loose poop.

[Thumper33]

That's good info.

I'm amazed that 85 is low on the scale. I swear she'll eat 8 ccs if I let her. Maybe more is spilling out than I think. I tried to get a feel for how fast I normally push, and it's right at 5 seconds per .1 cc. Honestly, if I had to guess why a bunch ends up down the front of her I'd say she needs to actually close her mouth when drinking. I can actually see the back of her throat and each little drop as I'm feeding.

I'll start keeping track of weight and adjust the amount I feed. It is really hard to know how much she does actually get though. If she is aggressively asking for more, is there danger in just continuing to feed? On days that she happens to not make much of a mess and I know she gets the right amount of food, she will slow down and start to fall asleep. Other days it's all over the front of her and she can't get enough of it. Can I just feed until she gets tired? Apparently she's not getting enough food as it is if she's on the small side. She does want more most of the time.

My project for the night is to find a tripod and get some video. I'm sure that would help everyone as well. :)

Oh, I'm feeding with (3) 3cc syringes. I put them in a coffee cup of hot water and test them before I use each one. I usually get about 1/2 way through a syringe before she gets fussy and I switch to another.

She's fussy yes, but she'll eventually eat everything until she falls asleep.

Loose Poop, not a problem at all. She's quite firm now.

[pappy1264]

No, don't just let her eat until she has 'had enough', overfeeding will cause loose poop, and possible bloat. Just stick with the 5-7%, and if you have times where she is fussing and giving you a real hard time, and she has eaten a good portion of it, it won't hurt her if a meal is a little smaller here and there, either.

Are her eyes open? A four week old is usually 80-120 grams, 5 weeks is generally 120-150 (now that is averages, and certainly they can fall out of those numbers). Perhaps she is only 4+ weeks old?

[Thumper33]

I could be off on my age. I'm basing everything on when the black haze started on her head, which was supposed to be at 10 days old if I recall. I back dated and called that her birthday. Maybe that's not as accurate as I thought it would be.

Her eyes are not open yet. I know they're supposed to open some time around week 5. They honestly look pretty sealed tight still. I'm anxious for that nice surprise any time now though :)

I never have trouble with getting her to eat more. It's usually that she looks like she's still starving and anxious about getting more food when I'm done feeding her. I'll just stick to 7% since we believe her to be small. I did an experiment today to see how much I thought was actually NOT making it into her mouth. My best educated guess is that 1-2 cc of food is not getting into her. That makes sense since I've fed her as much as 9 ccs on a particularly messy feeding. I bet 3 or more ccs ended up in the wipe rag.

I'm trying to slow down a little more and push .1 ccs in 5 seconds, and do a 3-4 second pause then push again. It seems to help. Also having gone back to 2:1 mix ratio helps a bunch. It's not nearly as runny. Sorry if it's more info than people need, but sometimes it helps to just talk it out. :)