Need some help with sub-Qing

[djarenspace9]

I have never had to subQ a little squirrel.
I've done subQ on larger animals and with detailed vet instructions.
I had a lesson on a baby squirrel once (thanks Jackie!) so I have no problem
with the procedure but not sure on how much to put in at a time and how often.
I have lactated ringers and of course syringes and needles.
He is 37grams.
He is in pretty bad shape so I feel I have to do this and be very aggressive.

[jbtartell]

I have never had to subQ a little squirrel.
I've done subQ on larger animals and with detailed vet instructions.
I had a lesson on a baby squirrel once (thanks Jackie!) so I have no problem
with the procedure but not sure on how much to put in at a time and how often.
I have lactated ringers and of course syringes and needles.
He is 37grams.
He is in pretty bad shape so I feel I have to do this and be very aggressive.
ok if you know the basics.. then you are ok.. just follow the same protical and just be very careful. if pee pee is clear and the pinch test is clear then just follow the rehabber protical.. lol ask any questions and i will answer to my ability.... :bowdown :rotfl

[djarenspace9]

I know where and how to stick the needle but don't know how much to give to such a tiny little one.
When my laptop crashed I lost most of my documents which I had stored electronically with rehab guidelines.

[djarenspace9]

Their urine is clear now, and everyone is doing better since I rehydrated then switched to goat milk, good appetite etc, the sagginess going away.
But the one baby is the worst and I feel he needs the extra help from subQ.
They all have watery sticky poop. I am treating with SMZ also.

[Jackie in Tampa]

.

[djarenspace9]

Gracias! :wave123

[Jackie in Tampa]

..

[djarenspace9]

Just to be clear, replacement fluid refers to only subQ or also oral?

[djarenspace9]

Also wanted to know if I should not add the heavy cream to the GM recipe. So far I am only giving the GM (fresh) with yogurt. Not sure if I should add the cream yet...They are all drinking it enthusiastically and it's not sitting in their bellies like the FV was, but I have yet to see any change in the bowels...sigh...sick babies make me crazy....I am keeping Legomom's baby far far away from them.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Just to be clear, replacement fluid refers to only subQ or also oral?
The replacement fluid is the amount you need to give total between sub Q and oral in addition to the required maintenance fluids, which is also the combined sub Q and oral. Fluids in any form count towards the total goal for the day.

Honestly, I don't follow the charts (will probably be learning how important they are in vet school, but for now I don't), I just give 4-5% of the creatures body weight per time and only if they are critical. I don't give slightly dehydrated babies sub Q, only if they're like at death's door and I'm afraid the tubed fluids will come back up.

[djarenspace9]

I don't give slightly dehydrated babies sub Q, only if they're like at death's door and I'm afraid the tubed fluids will come back up. That is how I feel, obviously if I have never done it in 8yrs, but this guy looks like a Sharpei he is so wrinkled....lost 5grams and is bouncing back but not enough, he really needed the extra help. I am afraid to take away the nourishment by doing the oral fluids in between and if I try to push too much he vomits too. I hope this is the best solution for him!

[pappy1264]

When Bean and her brothers were so bad last year, Jodi did sub-q and fed ensure (nothing worked getting the diarrhea to stop until that). I think she did it for at least several days and then I started them slowly on the gm (and I also added Lactobilicus to it as well). Not trying to make this more confusing, but I know all too well how frustrating this belly issue is. Tons of prayers going your way.

[djarenspace9]

No worries, I welcome all ideas but have to work with what I have...don't have any Ensure
I have no car at the moment and depend on the kindness of friends to get me things or take me shopping.

SubQing him was difficult. He is showing some bad signs, restless crawling and groaning (a hoarse cry) not just when I was handling him but I heard him in the bin before. He struggled while I did it but I stayed strong because I know this can save his life.
I have done everything I can so far...now just prayers can help him.
I will get up tonight to work on his fluids some more.
Thanks everyone for the support and help.

[Anne]

Prayers that he turns around and becomes strong. You are doing everything you can to save him. Be careful adding the cream, don't want to feed anything to heavy to easily digest.

[djarenspace9]

Prayers that he turns around and becomes strong. You are doing everything you can to save him. Be careful adding the cream, don't want to feed anything to heavy to easily digest.
Thank you Anne...I am not adding the cream yet, I suppose til I see some improvement.
I hope to see better signs by morning.

[Kristin Ward]

Praying your little guy makes it. He couldn't be in better hands and he must know he's loved for sure.:grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

:grouphug

[stepnstone]

How's the little one this morning?

[pappy1264]

Watching for an update (and praying it is a good one!)

[djarenspace9]

Not for Jiggy....he looks even worse.
I don't think he'll survive the day. :shakehead
The 4 little ones are looking better so I know what I'm doing is effective,
but maybe not enough for him...he's disappearing in front of my eyes.

[djarenspace9]

He also keeps getting off the heat too.
That is such a terrible sign to me.
I have removed all the extra bedding to keep him from getting off it completely.
But he will angle his body against the side of the bin so he is not touching the bottom with most of his body, and gets real cold.
I'm struggling to keep his body warm.
I just put his bin in a closed bathroom and put on a tiny little space heater so the air is warm around him.

Any other ideas on how to deal with that?

[pappy1264]

Short of just putting the whole container on the heater, not really sure what else you could do. Poor baby, sometimes nothing works. Prayers continue.

[Uno's Mom]

Do you happen to own an electric blanket?
You could wrap that around the entire box and over
the top. It would require constantly checking to make
sure it is not too hot, but...

[Gina]

Karen...I am praying for your Jiggy boy and for all of our sick lil babies. I started the meds last night on my three and have also had trouble with one boy trying to get off the heat. I ended up putting the heating pad under the whole cage and have just one layer of fleece so no one can get more then one layer off. So far he is staying warm but he too goes as far to the edge as possible:shakehead I made some pedialyte and have been giving him all he will drink every hour today. He is always so thirsty so I think he is loosing more fluids then what he was taking in. Maybe should sub-q?? What sized needle? He is down to 23 grams this morning so lost another gram since last night.

[djarenspace9]

For now the space heater is doing the trick, I can thermostat control it too.

Gina I have lactated ringers and syringes with needles if you need them.
I am not good with needles, just do what I'm told!
I have 25G and 27G.

[Gina]

For now the space heater is doing the trick, I can thermostat control it too.

Gina I have lactated ringers and syringes with needles if you need them.
I am not good with needles, just do what I'm told!
I have 25G and 27G.

Space heater was great idea. I have some needles too.. but they look sooooooo big! They say 20Gx1-1/2" 0.90x38. Jibberish to me but will they work or the diabetic needles much smaller and come with 1cc syringe, all one unit. Afraid to sub q one this small but will do what it takes.

[djarenspace9]

I don't really know which size is best...maybe let a more experienced person tell us.
I felt mine were too big too.

[iwonka]

Try this.. little Rice Buddy.. Worked well for me.

180007

[djarenspace9]

That's a good idea to have mini rice buddies, can arrange them better around the babies.

[Uno's Mom]

Space heater was great idea. I have some needles too.. but they look sooooooo big! They say 20Gx1-1/2" 0.90x38. Jibberish to me but will they work or the diabetic needles much smaller and come with 1cc syringe, all one unit. Afraid to sub q one this small but will do what it takes.

A 20g needle is way too big for a squirrel baby. We use that size on adult
people in the hospital if they have decent veins. You need the 25-27 g no longer than about 1/2. The insulin syringes are much better, depending on the size needle they have. Mine are 29gauge. The higher the number, the smaller the needle.

Just my opinion.:D

[Gina]

Sorry to thread jack, Karen:D :D :D

Uno's mom, BD Ultra-fine needle - insulin syringes are 29gx1/2"(12.7mm)

[Gina]

Duh...now I see mine are basically like the ones you recommend so IF I have to sub-q, then I will have the right size. Yaay.

Karen..do you need some? I have 7-8 could prob get more from my son or neighbor- paramedic perks.

[Uno's Mom]

Duh...now I see mine are basically like the ones you recommend so IF I have to sub-q, then I will have the right size. Yaay.

Karen..do you need some? I have 7-8 could prob get more from my son or neighbor- paramedic perks.

I have a whole box (29 gauge, 1/2"needle, .5 ml) left from my diabetic cat that passed last November. I can put some in the mail if either of you need any.

To threadjack even further:D,
Cleo has developed bloat with the FV added in. :Cry :Cry
Back to square one with hydration:shakehead

[Jackie in Tampa]

you can buy syringes at walmart without Rx for less than a dollar a piece..
I apologize, I thought you girls took needles and mini saline flushes when you were here..
I use big needles to pull the fluid from the IV bag and small {larger numbers, smaller needles}points to inject it.
How is the baby djar:grouphug

[djarenspace9]

I have 27G....was trying to find some 29G among my rehabber friends but they have the same.

The babies are doing better, certainly seeing improvement and what especially makes me happy is that they drink their GM with gusto!

I unfortunately am not faring well....was sick on Saturday, felt back to normal yesterday, and now I am 10 times worse than before....so I may be hooking up that IV to myself and kicking back some SMZ also. :dono

[Jackie in Tampa]

a cipro cocktail is not as tasty, but it's faster!:D
hope you feel better and glad the babies are improving today..

[pappy1264]

Are all the babies improving? So happy to hear, but so sorry to hear you are not well. Sending double prayers for all!

[djarenspace9]

I'm trying to be patient and stay calm, follow a good protocol and have faith.
If I could survive 2 months of diarrhea with Squirt I can do this!
I was looking back at her thread and the pictures of her when I first got her.
She was even scarier than these guys, I remember thinking she was going to die on me every day for weeks.

[iwonka]

I'm happy to hear that baby is better! :thumbsup

:grouphug Drink lots of water .. .. it's a very importent remedy... And sleep. :grouphug

[Legomom]

If you've got acidophilus, add it to the formula. It will help the babies that are getting the SMZ. It replaces the good stuff in the bowel system that antibiotics kill. If Squiggy has diarrhea, add it to his, too. It certainly can't hurt & it may help.

Thanks for taking care of my guy this weekend.

[djarenspace9]

Thanks Legomom! Does your little guy have a name yet?
I was calling him Legoboy :D
He is so plump and kissable. Most of all I enjoyed his perfect little poops. :rotfl
I hope we can find him a friend soon.

I have been adding yogurt to the goat milk and actually today also started adding benebac.
What can I say, great minds think alike :tilt

[iwonka]

How much benebac are you giving?

[djarenspace9]

How much benebac are you giving?
I have the gel form that is sold in 1g squeeze tubes for small mammals like rodents, gp's etc.
They recommend if <1lb from 1/4 to 1/2 g every other day for a week.
I am just giving a drop each.

[djarenspace9]

Everyone's steadily working their way back to normal.
I feel like I can finally stop holding my breath and enjoy them before they go home!

:thumbsup

[iwonka]

Everyone's steadily working their way back to normal.
I feel like I can finally stop holding my breath and enjoy them before they go home!

:thumbsup


:thumbsup :Love_Icon

[pappy1264]

Woohoo! Wonderful news!!!

[djarenspace9]

Everyone's making a comeback and I am feeling more relaxed.
We had another bump in the road when I added the cream --everyone got bloated.
I got them un-bloated and managing it by diluting the mix until their bellies adjust.

I have sent Jiggy and Jess off to their new home and kept the 4 babies who I have named Leo, Theo, Maisy and Daisy.

I will have to work on pics I suppose....