Poisoned adult male

[grinn75]

Never had one of these so not sure what to do. Paralysis has started but not complete and bright green poops are coming out. Not sure it's poison but sure looks like rodenticide to me. Should I PTS? Is there recovery from this?

[CritterMom]

Rodenticides are usually warfarin - humans take it for anti-clotting under the Brand name Coumadin! Death occurs from bleeding to death - all of the internal organs begin to bleed internally. The only thing I know of that can counter it - and no idea how much or how soon it needs to be taken - is massive amounts of Vitamin K.

[grinn75]

There is a vet that treats wildlife nearby. Do you think that's his best option? I don't want him to suffer. I've seen many wildlife die from rodenticide poisoning and it's not pretty.

[grinn75]

Scratch that. The nearby vet only does the occasional raptor.

[grinn75]

Anybody? Any advice? I don't want this animal to suffer needlessly.

[CritterMom]

God... Are you sure he got into rat poison? If you are, the choices are pretty much running to a health food store and getting Vitamin K and giving him a bunch of it (no idea how much - this would be a Hail Mary pass) or PTS. Warfarin poisoning is an awful way to go. But usually you start seeing signs of blood - mouth, nose...

[SammysMom]

I wish I had advice but all I can offer is prayers...:grouphug

[grinn75]

Haven't seen any blood yet. Just doing heat and rest right now.

[CritterMom]

Lots and lots of fluids, too - maybe you can flush some of it out of him.

[SammysMom]

Found this on the web but I have no certainty:
"Therapy

If the patient has only just ingested the poison, he or she may be made to vomit it up. Cathartics and adsorbents can be used to prevent the poison from entering the patient’s system. Still, it is best to use the antidote anyway. Certainly, if there is evidence that the patient is bleeding, the antidote obviously is required.

The antidote is simply vitamin K.

Vitamin K is generally started as an injection given when the patient is stable. Tablets are prescribed. The human formulation, available as a prescription drug at most drug stores, is a 5 mg tablet. The veterinary strength is a 25 mg tablet. Blood transfusions may be needed to stabilize a patient who has suffered significant blood loss.
Bags of packed red blood cells are ready for shipping at the Northwest Veterinary Blood Bank. There are many blood banks available for pets plus many animals hospitals keep blood donors and/or do their own blood banking.

There are different classes of anticoagulant rodenticides and they remain in the body for several weeks. It is hard to know when to discontinue therapy, especially if the particular rodenticide is not known. After a couple of weeks of therapy, medication is discontinued and then 48 hours later a PT test is run. If there is still rodenticide in the patient’s system, the PT will abnormal but the patient will not yet have started to bleed. The results of the PT test will tell the veterinarian whether or not another couple of weeks of vitamin K are needed.

It is important to return for the recheck PT test on schedule. Waiting an extra day or two will allow internal bleeding to recur.

There is no point to doing the PT test while the patient is still taking vitamin K. The test must be done 48 hours after discontinuing the medication.

When the PT test has returned to normal, it is safe to discontinue therapy.

Vitamin K1 vs. Vitamin K2 vs. Vitamin K3

There are three forms of vitamin D but only vitamin K1 is used therapeutically. Vitamin K1 is a natural form of vitamin K that is found in plants and absorbed nutritionally. Its more technical name is phylloquinone. Vitamin K2 (menaquinone) is also natural and is produced by one's intestinal bacteria but apparently not in amounts adequate for rescue from the anticoagulant rodenticides. Vitamin K3 (menadione) is a synthetic version that may be injected or taken orally. You may even see it available as a vitamin supplement tablet.

Within the body vitamin K1 and vitamin K3 are converted to Vitamin K2. Vitamin K3 might seem like an inexpensive way to treat a pet with rat poisoning but unfortunately, K3 is sometimes toxic and can lead to red blood cell destruction. Inexpensive vitamin K3 pills on the drugstore shelf for over-the-counter sale are not acceptable antidotes. Vitamin K1 is used because it is absorbed early in the GI tract and concentrates directly in the liver, which is where the serine proteases are activated. It is only vitamin K1 that should be considered as the antidote for anticoagulant rodenticide poisoning."

[grinn75]

I don't think I can get my hands on vitamin. K until later. I'm at work and resources are limited.

[grinn75]

I have a vet on standby. I'll have to "donate" him unless I can schmooze the vet with my official looking credentials. If he's savable does anyone want to do the work to rehab him? I can't right now. Starting a new job and lots of training going on.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I don't think you can buy vitamin K
is belly distended?
breathing stable and smooth?
what is his posture?

[SammysMom]

I am NOT questioning anyone here just wondering if this is the same Vit K we are talking about.

[grinn75]

He's just stiff. No swallow reflex. He will occasionally start moving legs but seems very neurological. Muscle twitching and eyes are twitching. Bright green poops.

[grinn75]

No belly distension, no obvious signs of trauma, a little dehydrated. The paralysis is ascending, that is why I thought rodenticide.

[Jackie in Tampa]

sammymom, I have no vit K experience, just have always assumed it was intravenious ???
grinn, stiff is most likely failing organs and circulation..
sometimes death is a gift.:grouphug
If you feel he is hanging on and needs for someone to try,, I am always here.

[grinn75]

Taking him to the vet. If he's towards the end I'd rather not prolong it and if he can be saved they will do their best.

[CritterMom]

You CAN buy Vitamin D2 but you have to go to a health food store - the drug stores don't sell it. It is commonly used before plastic surgery because it helps minimize bruising.

This poor baby. God I hate poison. I won't even use bug spray around my house.

[skarabrae]

There are so many natural foods that can be dangerous to animals as well... or maybe it got into someone's garbage and ate something poisonous. It may not have been intentional. Gosh, the squirrels around here eat right through our garbage lids :eek: (Not MY squirrels of course :D )

[grinn75]

He died while at the vet. I am sending him to vets in Gainesville for necropsy. My coworker who found him wants to know if it was poison and if so then she will be going door to door in her neighborhood to read people the riot act. I also want to know for future so I may help the next little squirrel that comes along with similar symptoms.
Thanks to those of you that responded. I hate not knowing what is best. I feel bad he died before I could help him pass more peacefully. :(

[Jackie in Tampa]

He died while at the vet. I am sending him to vets in Gainesville for necropsy. My coworker who found him wants to know if it was poison and if so then she will be going door to door in her neighborhood to read people the riot act. I also want to know for future so I may help the next little squirrel that comes along with similar symptoms.
Thanks to those of you that responded. I hate not knowing what is best. I feel bad he died before I could help him pass more peacefully. :(
rest in peace sweet squirrel
thank you grinn

[Chickenlegs]

Thank you Grinn for your compassion. Sweet sleep little squirrel. I have rats in the area of the shed--chickens and feed are a sure draw. I won't use poison. Too much risk to my critters and too evil a death for the poor rats just trying to get by. :(

[SammysMom]

Godspeed little one...:grouphug Grinn:grouphug

[Kristin Ward]

AMEN. Sorry little squirrel. :shakehead You found loving hands for your last hours.:Love_Icon Thank you grinn.:thankyou
rest in peace sweet squirrel
thank you grinn

[grinn75]

Got the results of the necropsy. Looks to be poisoning with some kind of rodenticide. The vet suggested it might be Bromethalin. Here's an excerpt from the manual.


Bromethalin - similar to the effect of the metal phosphides, bromethalin is thought to deactivate oxidative phosphorylation and, thereby, impede the production of ATP (adenosine triphosphate) energy in the brain and liver cells of the animal. These brain and liver cells start to swell with fluid as a result of subsequent inactivity of ATP-dependent water removal mechanisms within the liver and brain cells (ATP energy is needed to operate a 'gateway' that is responsible for controlling sodium, potassium and water levels within a cell). In the brain, this fluid swelling is termed cerebral oedema (also spelled edema). The swollen brain cells fail to work properly and eventually start to die off, resulting in symptoms of severe neurological dysfunction: seizuring, hyperexcitability, muscle tremors, paddling, hyperthermia (excessive bodyheat), coma and death. Sublethal doses may only produce signs of transient wobbliness and hind leg incoordination, without the seizures and brain signs. Depending on the dose of poison consumed and how long the symptoms of severe neurological dysfunction have been present prior to the onset of veterinary attention, the prognosis for a poisoned pet may be guarded to poor. There is no specific antidote to this toxin.

[grinn75]

Symptoms fit what my little wild guy was going through. Be on the look out for this stuff folks. Found another article.
180875

[Kristin Ward]

What a horrible way to die.:shakehead
I wish people would be more humane with whatever they deem a nuisance.
Poor squirrel may not have even been the target, still what a shame.

[Garden71]

:frustratedx :sad RIP little buddy :sad

[pappy1264]

This is horrible! Man, I truly pray karma bites whoever did this VERY HARD AND VERY SWIFT! RIP you poor baby.

[Kelly Brady]

Wow Grinn, How sad. Poor baby. Couldn't even be helped.

I hate poison. Nothing should go through that horrible death.

Thanks for finding out what it was. At least he went with you and not along somewhere.

[rocky63]

What ever the case. this guy did not deserve to die this way. :shakehead
thanks grinn75 for letting us know.

[Garden71]

This is horrible! Man, I truly pray karma bites whoever did this VERY HARD AND VERY SWIFT! RIP you poor baby.

:goodpost