urgent, new owner inactive flyer

[h2otapout]

so I've got in my hands really exotic pet here in ireland - a flying squirrel. as previous owner of red squirrel (RIP) I know a fair share about them. I know they are curios active little things . previous owner of flyer newer handled him, nor knew anything about them. he is year old as previous owner said not too sure did he knew about calcium suppliments. I have him now 3 days and all he does is sleeps doesn't leave the nest atal so ive started to give him calcium+ orange juice.still no change. thought it might be bone disease he is not wobbly or anything it's just unusual that he is so inactive. then again it's my first flyer and I'm not sure weather they just spend most of their time asleep?!please help ;( http://http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii505/h2otapouts/8155f811.jpg

[CritterMom]

You know they are nocturnal, right? Sleep pretty much all day and out and about at night. Your instincts about the calcium are right on.

[h2otapout]

yes I've been staying up all this time at nights it's 00.57am here still no movement atall;( I'm soo worried

[pappy1264]

How long has he been with you? He may be very scared being in a new place. What has his diet been? Does he get protein (they are not the same as red squirrels and have quite different nutritional requirements). Does he get bugs (ie waxworms, mealworms)?

[jbtartell]

Their diet is about the same as a tree squirrel miner tweeks and they do sleep alot, plus he just switched owners soo he may just be scared. give him time put his food next to his nest so he can grab and run..lol and move it away as he gets more calm. he will come out when he feels safe. mine did that when I would change their cages.:wahoo :wave123

[stosh2010]

Beautiful flyer...
There are MANY Flyer families on the Squirrel Board..and a Forum --just for them.
Diet is KEY to growth and strength. LOTs of nutrition info here---
THANK YOU for caring and asking for advice...We Love Compassionate folks, here
( I re-sized the photos for EASY viewing...)

[h2otapout]

for all I know man only has given him hamster feed;( so I have boiled him chicken breast offered some veg and fruit. he is with me 3 days or there about he doesn't seem to mind me picking him up. I'm so confused, do flyers eat a lot?

[Skul]

OK. Just found this.
Late night activity is normal, so don't worry about that.
His fur pretty much looks fine.
If you can, please give us an idea as what you're feeding now.
If you have a gram scale, please weigh him, and let us know.
Diet is very important for those little monsters.
I suspect the little one may need a few changes to remain healthy.

We'll do our best to help you.

Always best to ask and learn, then to not, and be sorry.

[gs1]

:Welcome

one of our best flyer people is mrs skul (although skul, pappy and other members are invaluable too :D )

i have the following post to share with anyone that needs flyer information asap.

both calcium and protein are very important to flyers, in fact flyers should be considered the carnivores of the squirrel family - squirrels do eat meat (baby birds, moths, worms, bugs etc) but flyers do need the most protein.

i'm sorry to hear about your red squirrel if you'd like to post in all squirrels go to heaven i'm sure we'd be thrilled to get to know him through you.:grouphug

welcome again.... :Welcome

***************************************


this is from mrs skul.... she sent to me to share... because of her dyslexia she prefers to talk to flyer people... her cell phone number is available and she's up all night cause she's nocturnal....

I've bolded and underlined some items to make it easier to read



:wave123
:fireworks congratulation!!!:goofwe
Welcome to the World of Being OWNED By The Flying Squirrel. :D


If you feed a High Protein diet WaxWorms MealWorms ""Even when they turn in to Millers they love them."" Freeze Dried Chicken or Fresh.
PetsMart carries Prim Bites & PetCo Carries PureBites FDChicken., VitaLife makes Chicken Chips and Chicken Poppers. PetsMart use to carrie them.
The Chicken chips you can find on line. This is a Dog treat. All you wont is Chicken nothing else added. You can try Scrambled, Boiled, Poached egg, Fried is usually to greasy.


You also need to pick up Some CuddelBone for Birds and put 1 in the cage. They make a Calcium Mineral Chew that is the shape of a Ice Cream cone. You can find at both Pet stores. They will be in the Rodent and the Rabbit/ Chinchilla/Ferret sections. " Just ask some one and they will help you find them if you cant." I have 1 hanging inside & outside the big cage, and 1 in every cage I have. I hang them so they don't fall to the bottom and get Peeeeeed on.:D :rotfl {"Just 4to5 inch of dental floss. Hanging By the plat form they feed on. When done it just drops and it hangs."} The Flyers will eat on the Cuddle bone and then the C/M Cone. They switch around. Some times it can be in the Cage for a year or so be for they use them. If they are not lacking Calcium they will not eat them. When needed, they Devour it. :shark


I feed my Flyer HHB and Fresh Vegatables. Protean and a Little FV every Day.

Some like the FV by a Syringe and Some like FV Yogurt By a Syringe or in a Bottle Cap. "They like to pick it up and like it like IceCream. Happy, Healthy Little Monsters. :D


Flyers Make their own Vitim D and Eating Mushroom every day Helps.

They like Sugar Snap Peas, Broccoli&the Leafs, ButterNut Squash& Acorn Squash. {"I will wash/dry the seed and feed them on the side.""}Asparagus, Bell Peppers and The Seeds, {"The BP Seeds need to be feed right a way or they turn black. I cut the seeds/skin holding them and feed as group."} Fresh Cranberries/ or frozen, Cherry Tomatoes cut in half. :Love_Icon Mine Love Cucumber&Avocado :Love_Icon like crazy, and I mix up a green salad with Romain, Brock Choy, Ediva & Godiva Lettuce, Any of the Lettuce,Cabbage.
"Ice Burg Lettuce has nothing in it for them. I never feed it." You can buy the Ready Mixed Salad's with all kinds of Romain and Letta's.


Now the Fruits. You do not wont them filling up on the Fruit. So just a little each time. Chunk of Apple or a Pare, the size of a Nickel.
BlueBerries {3or 4} Depending how big. :D RasBerry or Black Berry. :Love_Icon Mine love the ComCouts.:Love_Icon I usually hold the strawberry and let them eaton it. Just not much. Cherry, Fig, Prickly Pare Cactus Fruit." Oh and Sweet Potato not to much. :nono They Have a large SWEET TOOTH and will steal it right out of your mouth if they can. :rotfl " Darla found a small piece of dark chocolate. Can you imagine a flyer on Speed. :eek: I thought she would die."


Just be careful. I am going to PM My number. If you have question or need help just call me any time day or night."

PS

Just follow the Nutrition for Squirrels and add The Protean :thumbsup3

I give Black Oil Sunflower seeds, The Squash Seeds,Pumpkin,Cantaloupe, Watermelon Seeds as a treat.
"Usually 4 or 5. It depends on how the Veg eating has gone that day."
I always give a nut for them to stash or keep. And if/when they open it. It's theirs free treat. :thumbsup5

Please call me some time.
I will give you a little info of what to be looking for if and when he gets sick.
Remember The Flyers will not show hardly any sines of being sick until it it to late.
So watch, and Know Him like the palm of your hand.
If he normally plays all the time. Then starts sleeping and Playing, and sleeping. Loss of wt.2 gm or more.
These are sines to watch for.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cell
Good Luck

[gs1]

just some more general information for you ......here is a link from one of our newer members - it might give you an idea of what you should be thinking of ... cages, wheels etc (please be careful some wheels can be very dangerous for them, they'll injure themselves.)

the fact that this member is called irishHarps is purely coincidental :D


http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32730

[Mrs Skul]

:Welcome :morning h2otapout Welcome to TSB! :Welcome
Welcome To The World of Being Owned By A Flying Squirrel!
Right now you said he has been with you for 3 days. Not to worry to much about him coming out. He is going to Hide and be scared. Tap on the nest box and offer him a small piece of Pecan. (that will let him know you are Friendly.) Did you ever meet before getting him? Did your friend say if he WAS a very Personal Bonded Flyer to them? :dono If so give him time. If your Friend will come over and introduce him to you. Play with him and you. Have him jumping on your friend and you back and forth. That will help you out SO SO MUCH. You need to start your own Bonding Process with him. :thumbsup3 A few things to remember Flyers DON'T LIKE CHANGE!!! :nono They will Bite and Nip when Scared or Defending their Food Stash or Nest box.
You need a large cage for him. When he is ready and Bonded to you then take him out to Play. At the least cage size. 32" Wide X 20" Deep X 36" Tall + a stand? Bar spacing 3/8" wide Hear is a cite you can look at the cage I am talking about.
Their is also a Flyer Block that is made just for Flyers. I know your in another Country. But their is a recipe on TSB where you can Buy the ingredients and make them your self. http://henryspets.com/ Now remember you will need to feed him Fresh Vegetables some Green Salad, and Protein. I also feed mine Fox Vally 32/40. You can mix a little in with Vanilla Yogurt and/ or Mix the formula up and feed with a syringe or a little Bowl. This will help him start Bonding to you. It will take a few feedings be for he get the taste of it. (This all so help with Calcium and vitamins.) NOW Be Careful about feeding to many Fruits. 1 a day is all, the size of your thumb nail. What kind of Calcium are you giving him? How are you giving it to him?
I use just Plain Calcium Carbonate Powder, and roll my Wax Worms/Meal Worms in it. You also can feed Freeze Dried Chicken or Boiled Fresh Chicken. I also cut the Chicken Bone in half and let them eat till the Harts Content. :D
You can try Boiled or Scrambled eggs. (Mine Don't care for it.)
What you need to do is Learn your Flyer! Watch how much water he drinks a day what he is eating every Day. Get to Knowing his Play Pattern and activity. What you will be watching for is any Kind of Change. (When you start knowing and learning him.) Keep a Eye on his Furr. If it starts looking Dull or Greasy, or Spiky. HE IS LACKING SOMETHING!
If you get a chance PLEASE Go over to the Flying Squirrel Section and read about ALL the TSB Flyers. It will help you under stand, and know what to expect.
Flying Squirrel Forum http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=93 Nutrition section http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191
PS
You will need to Flyer Proof your House and the cage he is in.
He will open the Cage doors and escape! :D They love to do that if Board.:shakehead
Check the house for Little HOLES. ( Under the Cabinets, Around Pipes, By the Fire Place, Under Doors, in Vents, and Sink Drains.) If his head fits, He will get threw it. (You don't need him getting out side or into the walls of your house.
If you have a Vase or Container's you cant see into. Put them away. They love to get on top and jump. He could slip into the hole and you will not find him. (This happened to Piglet. But I found her 3 or 4 days latter. She recovered from it.)
You can make a little Ladder for the Toilet if needed. BUT KEEP THE TOILET LID DOWN/CLOSED!!! :eek: A lot of Flyers Have Drowned in the Toilet. :Cry
Latter on when he starts CHEERPING we can help you under stand the Language and Action. PLEASE START A THREAD IN THE FLYER SECTION. This way with Pictures, Typing Back and Forth we can help with question and if you don't see something we might. We will be able to help before anything gets to bad. :thumbsup5

[h2otapout]

thanks guys but still not active ;( I'm so worried I didn't go to work today just in case, if he is just scared how long would it take him to settle in? all tho I'm still convinced its mbd ;( I'll keep all of you up to date

[Jackie in Tampa]

:wave123 :Welcome
do you know his previous daily diet?
I understand your concerns..
inactive is scarey...hiding is a different story..
are you thinking inactive or frightened?
If inactive, there may be something going on.
In your first post you stated previous owner did not know about the specifics with flyers..THAT CONCERNS me.
Diet, as you know, is key to happy and healthy...
what calcium do you have on hand?
how are you trying to give it to him...
MBD treatment is advised unless another issue is suspected...:peace
it won't hurt him if it is not.

[IrishHarps]

Hey, my thread got linked to! I feel so special :Love_Icon I am not in Ireland, but I DO play the Irish Harp :D And our family has the Irish blood. Happy to see you on here!

My only advice is to listen to whatever the Skuls say. Their word is the Flyer Bible. They know it all and are very helpful.

I wouldn't be too worried about inactivity. It's 7:30 at night here and my baby (Momo) is still asleep. She was also very scared and quiet when we first brought her home.

I'm really curious how you (or the person you got the flyer from) got an SFS across the pond!

And yes, start a thread in the flyer section :)

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 h2otapout
Have you tried to Handel this little one? Did the previous owner Buy him from a Pet shop or a Breeder?
Can you List EVERY FOODS he has been eating??? What kind of DIET did the Previous owner have him on? (Can you call them and ASK???) :thinking
:grouphug No one will judge you if the Diet is wrong or off. We just wont to help you and Save this little one so you can enjoy him. :Love_Icon
HAS HE DRANK ANY WATER AT ALL TO DAY?? :dono
Has he Drank or eating anything since you have gotten him??? If so What and How much each day. Have you taken him out and put him in your shirt?
You need to check on him and offer water if he is not drinking. (Do you have a Syringe or Eye Dropper?) Offer him food in side the Nest box, if he is not coming out to eat. You will have 3 to 4 days of not eating be for he gets beyond Hungry, Dehydrated, Week, and just gives up. Please answer. You might be at a critical point Now. Can you get a hold of the Previous owner and ask what exactly he was feeding him. What his activity level was like?
If you do not give us the Information we are asking for, We Cant Help You.
I am worried about what kind of Foods he has been eating. If this is a Diet related Problem, their is not much time to Fix it. I noticed in the Pictures He looks like the Furr is Missing off the TOP of his Feet. :shakehead Can you get a Gram Weight on Him??
I know some supply can be shipped to you. It will just take some time. Please let us know about the Diet and if you have him on a Rodent Block or Flyer Block. What Kink of PROTEIN are you feeding? Is He Eating a High Calcium, Fresh Vegetable,/Leafy Green Diet. What kind of Nuts and how many a day is he getting? If you need to talk to some one Personally, Please send me your Phone Number & Country Code. I will Call you and Help you out.
Please No Peanuts or Corn! :nono
PS
Can he open a Nut in the Shell by him self?
Open a Shelled Pecan, Almond, Filbert/Hazelnut, or Walnut. Put the whole nut inside with him. He needs to be eating something. I will see if I can PM you my Phone number. Keep a close eye on him.
I am up all nights but Recently I have not been able to get away from my Flyer Kids. :D I will keep trying to check back. If you call. It will not matter what time it is. I am always up! :thumbsup3
Just Do Not Use your Cell Phone. Out of Country Calls are VERY Expensive. If you have a land Line it would be cheaper. :Flag
By the way, What is His NAME? I am Praying He is OK.
cmsokla@nctv.com E-Mail address

[Mrs Skul]

Emergency Treatment for MBD
Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW.
Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.
You will need:
Tums, rolaids, or calcium supplement (any kind)
a syringe or spoon
Crush one pill and add a little water or fruit juice to make a paste. Use the syringe or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone.

After you give the initial dose of calcium, give 100 mg calcium every 4 hours. If symptoms return or do not improve, try dosing more often: every 3 hours. Severe cases may need 50 mg calcium every 2 hours.

Your squirrel's symptoms should improve within a few hours; within 1-3 days your squirrel should be alert, active, and eating, with no seizures or paralysis. You should be giving 500-600 mg calcium per day. Keep track of how many doses you give so you can adjust the dosage if needed. You should work with TSB members to do this.
Important!
Any kind of calcium pill is OK for the initial dose. But you must use PLAIN calcium carbonate (without Vit D) from then on.

Many small doses of calcium throughout the day/night are best to keep blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If symptoms worsen or return, give an emergency dose of 100 mg calcium, then consult with TSB members or a rehabber or veterinarian to adjust the dosing schedule. Relapses are very serious and often fatal.

White feces or a white film on dried urine may mean the dosage can be reduced, as this indicates not all of the calcium is being absorbed. It may also mean you need to give smaller doses more often.

The acute symptoms (weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis) will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones. (See the "Long-Term Treatment for MBD" below.)
More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. You should pad the bottom of your squirrel's cage and keep him away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work. Squirrels with hind-end paralysis may benefit from gentle massage of the legs and hips.
Long-Term Treatment for MBD
The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats, including stashes.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found here: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=32046 and on the Henry’s Healthy Pets website (http://www.henryspets.com/pages/Healthy-Diet.html). Your squirrel MUST eat rodent blocks or squirrel blocks every day (either 2 Henry's Healthy Squirrel Blocks per day, or a small handful of commercial rodent block per day). If you choose to feed commercial rodent blocks, which are extremely hard, you should crush them up with peanut butter, yogurt, fruit juice, avocado, baby food, etc., to make them easier to chew and improve the taste.

3. You will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for many weeks. You can use a syringe or spoon, or you can mix the calcium with a small amount of peanut butter, crushed nuts, yogurt, baby food, or any food the squirrel likes. An easy way to dose the calcium is to mix 500 mg of calcium powder with 1 tablespoon of peanut butter or other tasty food and roll it into 5 little balls; each ball will contain 100 mg calcium.
Calcium Dosage:
Continue to give 500-600 mg calcium per day for 1 week. Then try reducing the total daily amount by 50 mg. If the squirrel remains stable for 1 week, reduce the daily amount by another 50 mg. Continue this weekly reduction until the squirrel is only getting around 100 mg of extra calcium per day. Continue this for at least another 2 weeks. If at any time symptoms return, give an emergency 100 mg dose, then go back to a higher dosage for 1-2 weeks.

The treatment for each squirrel may be slightly different and you should work with a rehabber or TSB members to tailor the treatment to your squirrel's needs. Depending on the age of the squirrel, severity of disease, and other factors, your squirrel may need extra calcium for many months, perhaps for life.
Important Information
The MBD treatment is a "standardized" treatment that will get most cases on the road to recovery. But every case is different and the treatment should be customized to each squirrel. Severe cases sometimes need more aggressive treatment. There is a limit to how much calcium the body can absorb at one time, so lower doses of calcium given more often is the key with severe cases.
What is MBD?
Calcium is a very important nutrient. It strengthen the bones, but also plays a vital role in all body functions. Every cell in the body contains water plus small amounts of dissolved minerals such as calcium, sodium, magnesium, and potassium. These minerals allow the cells to transmit small electrical signals. Without this cell-to-cell communication, the organs can't function: your heart can't beat, your nerves can't transmit impulses; in fact, you would die.

When there isn't enough calcium in the diet, the body will dissolve the calcium from the bones and use that instead. This eventually causes the bones to become depleted of calcium. Eventually the bones become so depleted, there isn't enough calcium left to maintain sufficient calcium in the cellular fluids, and the organs can't function properly. This is what causes the symptoms of MBD: loss of appetite, lethargy, muscle pain, paralysis, seizures, and eventually death. Humans don't get this type of severe MBD, partly because our calcium requirement is lower and our bones are much bigger, allowing us to store more calcium.

By giving high doses of calcium orally, you are artificially maintaining your squirrel's blood calcium levels because his bones no longer contain enough calcium to maintain his calcium levels normally.

Once the emergency calcium is given, your squirrel's blood calcium levels should normalize fairly quickly. He should "bounce back" and act normal or almost normal. If you are still seeing symptoms such as seizures, loss of appetite, lethargy, or paralysis, the calcium levels may still be too low. This means the body will try to pull the remaining calcium from the bones, which means the MBD is actually getting worse. So stabilizing blood calcium levels is critical. The next step to actually curing the MBD is rebuilding bone. This is the part that takes a long time.

Stabilizing the blood calcium levels can and must be done quickly. In severe cases, calcium may be needed more often throughout the day and night, as often as every 2 hours.
PS.
You will need to half the Treatment for a Flyer.
__________________
Henry's Healthy Pets
Henry's Healthy Blocks, Fox Valley Formula, Fleeces Cage Gear and more

[h2otapout]

good news, last night about 3.47 am he was active for the first time ;) :jump

[Jackie in Tampa]

are you still giving additional calcium?...
this is such great update...yay...:wott
do you think it was the calcium or he was just scared?
I would absolutely stick with the healthy diet and MrsSkul does know her flyers...:alright.gif
listen to that womans diet advise!!:poke
and don't forget the yucko worms!:D

hoping for pics soon too!:poke

[h2otapout]

never been happier ;) I think it was the calcium, I kept feeding it every 2 hours, for 24 hours and he was gettin healthier look every time I'm still however giving him calcium every 5 hours now. myself ?! exhausted been up all this time taking care of him , but nothing is worth more to see him healthy;) thanks every1 for support :thankyou :grouphug in pictures it's him this morning bonding
with me before feed of calcium ;)

[Jackie in Tampa]

:multi yay
:bowdown good job
:nono you cannot stop, you just need to make change
and include calcium and the healthy diet :thumbsup
very pretty little flyer:Love_Icon

:thankyou :bowdown

[Mrs Skul]

:morning h2otapout CONGREGATIONS FOR DOING SUCH A GREAT JOB!!! :alright.gif
Your going to make a Wonderful Flying Squirrel Parent. :grouphug This is Such Good news. What a Hansom Little GUY! :Love_Icon
Just be Careful and keep around stuff that is SOFT just in case he falls off of you. He still will be week and Deficient. BUT This will take a Life time of Diet Change. He should have Furr on each little toe top. So watch for it to start growing in.
If he is just 1 year old, you can still offer some FoxVally Formula it will help Him a lot. Can you get a Gram weight on him? Did you ever find out what the Diet use to be? Can you get a Picture of his Tummy and his Little Tinkle and Testicle? :hidechair
:grouphug I am SO SO SO Glad he made it to you. :bowdown
This is Usually the age and time People loose their Flyers because of Bad Diets. Please Stay around and Ask all the Questions you can think of. We will be hear to answer. You need to make sure he is drinking enough Water. Keep an eye on the Out Put of Pee & Pooh, Calcium is Binding and he can have problems Pooping if not enough water. Little Boy Flyers have more Problem getting their Tinkle plugged with Stones and cant Pee. So Water is the key. If you have Cranberries let him have some.
You can freeze them to. (Feed Frozen.) I Dry some out Like Raisins, and the Flyers Love them. :thumbsup3 You can offer Cranberry Juice or Cranberry-Grape Juice let him have a little often. (Spanky Loves CranGrape Juice.)
If you get a chance to look at a Few Cites I posted and need to Order something. We Can WORK ON SENDING IT OUT TO YOU. :thumbsup3
GOOD LUCK

PS
He Looks like a People Friendly Flyer. Do You have a Name for him yet?
Tuck your shirt back in half way and Let him Play as long as he wonts. Just remember how long he is on you, He will get Thirsty and Hungry. Mine will drink from a Little small Clean Pill Bottle when on me and wonting a Drink.
He might even eat better, or foods he does not like, just because you are holding it.:D
Just be careful about Sitting, Walking, Stepping, Open Windows, Standing Water, Opening the Refrigerator Door. (Piglet likes Jumping off into it when I open the door.) Opening and Closing Doors when he is out. Watch the Toilet Lids, Water in the sink. Drowning, and Squishing Does Happen Often. :shakehead
Be sure to always check, that the Cage Doors are Locked, and He is in his Cage be for going outside. :)

[jbtartell]

yayyyy I was thinking of him lastnight..:rotfl

[IrishHarps]

Oh man he is so beautiful! Lovely pictures.

To second what Mrs. Skul was saying, yes make sure you close all gaps in anything ('flyer proof') in whatever room you have him out in. Anything that has more than 1/2 inch of a gap needs to be closed off somehow. Check your baseboards and heaters along all the walls - often there will be gaps where the piping goes into the wall.

From experience, they can and will get into any gap they can! I've had my baby for almost a year now and just last month she found a gap in the wall that I missed. She came back out again but I almost had a heart attack when I realized what had happened!! They are very curious and surprisingly strong for their size, and can wriggle their way into and out of almost anything.