CA Ground Squirrel Help

[3domfighter]

Hello, I need help with some ground squirrels while waiting for a rehabber.

BACKGROUND:
-Two CA Ground Squirrels were saved from our dog by our kids, and my wife put them in a file box.
-They appear to be about 7 weeks old. They have upper and lower teeth, bushy tail, and have been seen popping out of their cactus hedge for about a week.
-I'd post a video if I could, but I don't have enough posts. Generally speaking their behavior is to sleep constantly. I hear them move around a little bit in the box, but not much. When I take them out for feedings they try to back themselves into shelter right away, and if I place them in the open they immediately rush to find shelter. They don't seem unhealthy when they are on the go, but they aren't on the go often.
-I colored one's toe with a Sharpee to tell them apart. "Black Toe" is 58.4g, and "Mini" is 54g. One of their litter-mates (I'm pretty sure) was found dead this evening and weighed 50.4g
-I tried to rehydrate them using Pedialyte warmed to slightly warmer than i'd give my 8 month old daughter. They wouldn't take it.
-I try to give them Esbilac puppy formula every 3-4 hours. I also have a selection of food (granola, peeled grapes, peeled blueberries, lettuce, pellets, etc) in their box, but they don't seem to eat.
-They are in a file box with odorless paper cage lining, a water bottle that they don't use, and a cave for shelter. The box is on a heat pad halfway.
-I saw one of their littermates popping in and out of their hedge all day yesterday, so today I put out a plate of food and put the file box out by the hedge with a little ramp, hoping that they would find eachother and go home, but they did not do that.
-One of them did aspirate some formula yesterday, but I immediately stopped the feeding, gently "burped" the animal while clearing its nose, and kept it very warm afterwards. I have been listening for a clicking, which I hear from time to time, but not like a rattle in the chest--it sounds more like a noise they make with their teeth. Also, both of them do it, not just the one that aspirated. Just to be safe I have an appt to see a very close friend who is a vet tomorrow in case they have pneumonia or something. They could also use some capstar or something because they have fleas and another tiny parasite I'd guess to be a type of mite.

So that's about all the background. My question is this: Why won't they eat? I keep watching videos online of these baby squirrels attacking the syringe like they can't get enough of it. These orphans of ours just push their face into their belly and curl into a little ball. I try to feel about 3-4grams at a time, but get at most .5-1gram in.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Jackie in Tampa]

when did you find them?
It seems you are doing all that you should be.
If they have just lost their mother and are frightened, it may take them some time to get hungry enough to eat.
Go slow, drop by drop is okay, when they do decide they are hungry do not lean them back, hold them upright to avoid the aspiration issues.
Keep them away from noise and other pets, this will make them nervous and possibly be contributing to their fear.
Do you have a scale that weighs in grams?
Normally we use the 5-7% of their body weight rule for feeding.
At 7 weeks they would be fed 4 times a day and would need a good rodent block to start them on solids and help with teething.
I have no experience with any particulars for CA GSq..ugh.
I am sure someone will be on in the AM to help more.

There have been problems using Esbilac since they changed their manufacturing process, TSB recommends Fox Valley Nutrition. Someone will be able to help with that also.
With the new formula, it has been noted to cause diarrhea, I believe it is reco'd to add 2.5 parts water to one part powder.
Have you seen poops yet, urine?
are you stimulating them after attempting to feed them?
I would continue trying to hydrate them..
:Welcome :wave123
I guess we;ll see ya in the AM:wave123
thank you for the rescue!:bowdown

[3domfighter]

Thanks for your reply!

We found them about 60 hours ago now. It was Thursday afternoon that the dog got to them.

I do have a gram scale and I've determined I ought to offer about 3g per feeding. I try to feed about 3x a day. Usually around normal mealtimes. I don't want to force it and scare them or traumatize them, but I also don't want them to die. I wish they'd just eat and drink. At least one of them has been eliminating very very tiny little pellets and a bit of urine, so they must not be totally starved or dehydrated, right?

[pappy1264]

Do you have hay in with them? Although I don't have CA ground squirrel experience, I do have a richardson's ground squirrel, and hay is a big part of their diet.

[3domfighter]

I'll put some hay in there and see how they take to it. Thanks for the advice. According to several sources on the net ground squirrels have very similar needs to tree squirrels so those of you who don't have specific ground squirrel experience will still be very helpful.

Last night was a mixed bag. The larger of the two, Black Toe (I colored his toe with a marker to tell them apart and I'm highly creative with names, thus "Black Toe"), grew a gram. However, the smaller one lost nearly two grams. I suspect that they've done some foraging, so the dish of fresh fruit drenched in Pedialyte must have been visited by Black Toe. I don't know if Mini just isn't weaned as much, or if he's got an internal injury from his run-in with the dog, but in any case he doesn't seem to be feeding on his own. Obviously I'll focus my feeding efforts on Mini today.

The vet had to put off my visit until tomorrow, so I hope the little guy hangs on and takes some food today. I've never seen Mini urinate, and only rarely does he defecate. He also isn't as lively as Black Toe, though both of them basically engage in the same behavior of sleeping/hiding 99-100% of the time and when I take them out for feedings they just want to burrow and hide rather than explore at all. There's certainly more spring in BT's step than Mini's even in this limited amount of movement.

If anyone can advise me how to coax him to eat without scaring him to death or hurting him I'd be extremely grateful. Aside from hand feedings I'm offering fluids to both of the babies in their box via a dish, a rodent water bottle, and mixed in with the fresh fruit. For food I am offering dry pellets (they are technically made for chickens, but the squirrels around my house constantly raid the coop and the garage for it so I'm guessing this food is familiar to them), fresh fruit (peeled grapes, peeled blueberries, cherries, banana, avocado, cucumber), and some raw almond slices. For hand feedings I've tried a variety of things: Plain Pedialyte, Esbilac, watered down Esbilac, and now I'm trying applesauce mixed with Pedialyte and bananas. The latter seemed to be of moderate interest to Mini--more so than the other foods, anyway. Nothing really interests Black Toe, but again, he seems to be doing OK on his own.

Thanks to everyone who has replied, and thank you all in advance for your future assistance!

[Jackie in Tampa]

He may need ABs..doe he have wounds? punctures?
can you do the hydration test, gently lift skin between shoulders, if skin stays tented he is dehydrated, if it relaxes slowly, you should proceed with formulaa.
He needs to be hydrated in order for his digestive tract and organs to function properly. Feeding him formula before he is fully hydrated is dangerous..
It won't hurt to start him on ABs if you have any fresh human or pet meds, we can tell you if they are sq friendly.
We will need what they are and the miligrams..
ciprofloxacin or baytril is choice...top shelf!:thumbsup
as with most mammals, a probotic is needed with ABs, I use yogurt, but acidiopholis or ben bac can be used.
I have to step out, will ck back soon..
:thumbsup

[Fireweed]

Look around at what the other ground squirrels are eating right now and put those things in with the babies: grasses, forbs, roots, mosses, etc. (Just make sure you see the ground squirrels actually eating the stuff!) If they are out of their burrow, they are eating those things even if they were still nursing a little bit. Bugs that come with the stuff are good, too. :D
It would be best to try and get Critical Care for Herbivores from your vet, if possible. That's a food you mix with water that is full of hays and other herbie kinds of foods...soft and easy for little injured/scared ground squirrels to eat and digest.

Ground squirrels diets are not really like tree squirrels--they should only get fruits and nuts as a rare rare treat. They need more grasses (you can buy grasses and hays from oxbow, for example--not alfalfa, though) and try to give them as much of their natural diet as possible. You could also feed them a pellet made for prairie dogs...I think Oxbow makes one but it is now under the name of Bunny pellets or something like that (ground squirrels diets are more akin to rabbits'). They should get these pellets and natural foods *only*...with fruit/nuts and other veggies only as rare treats.

The esbilac or FV would be ok, since I don't know of any other milk for ground squirrels. But if they were out of their burrow they were being weaned, anyway, and should start eating lots of grasses etc. Did you hydrate before giving the formula?

Try feeding them with the syringe just by slowly putting it to their mouths without picking them up. If they are backed into a corner, just slowly move the syringe to the side of their mouth and drip a drop on the lip or in the corner of their mouth. Once they realize how yummy it is they might start to lick/suck and then it will be easier to get them to drink and/or pick them up to drink.

I'm on the fly right now so rushing through this... :o Hope it all goes well for you and Mini and BT. :grouphug I loves me some ground squirrels! :Love_Icon Good luck! And thanks for caring for them. :bowdown I hope your dog can't get to the others. :tilt :peace

[Jackie in Tampa]

:goodpost Fireweed knows!:thumbsup
Pappy too!
Look around at what the other ground squirrels are eating right now and put those things in with the babies: grasses, forbs, roots, mosses, etc. (Just make sure you see the ground squirrels actually eating the stuff!) If they are out of their burrow, they are eating those things even if they were still nursing a little bit. Bugs that come with the stuff are good, too. :D
It would be best to try and get Critical Care for Herbivores from your vet, if possible. That's a food you mix with water that is full of hays and other herbie kinds of foods...soft and easy for little injured/scared ground squirrels to eat and digest.

Ground squirrels diets are not really like tree squirrels--they should only get fruits and nuts as a rare rare treat. They need more grasses (you can buy grasses and hays from oxbow, for example--not alfalfa, though) and try to give them as much of their natural diet as possible. You could also feed them a pellet made for prairie dogs...I think Oxbow makes one but it is now under the name of Bunny pellets or something like that (ground squirrels diets are more akin to rabbits'). They should get these pellets and natural foods *only*...with fruit/nuts and other veggies only as rare treats.

The esbilac or FV would be ok, since I don't know of any other milk for ground squirrels. But if they were out of their burrow they were being weaned, anyway, and should start eating lots of grasses etc. Did you hydrate before giving the formula?

Try feeding them with the syringe just by slowly putting it to their mouths without picking them up. If they are backed into a corner, just slowly move the syringe to the side of their mouth and drip a drop on the lip or in the corner of their mouth. Once they realize how yummy it is they might start to lick/suck and then it will be easier to get them to drink and/or pick them up to drink.

I'm on the fly right now so rushing through this... :o Hope it all goes well for you and Mini and BT. :grouphug I loves me some ground squirrels! :Love_Icon Good luck! And thanks for caring for them. :bowdown I hope your dog can't get to the others. :tilt :peace

[3domfighter]

I was really resolved to get some fluids into them today because after just the amount of time I've had them they must be dehydrated. When I do the pinch test it does seem like they tent up longer than they should, but it goes away in a few seconds. I tried to start with fluids from the very beginning, but they didn't seem interested. That is why I moved on to formula and eventually soft foods--they just wouldn't take Pedialyte. Unfortunately they won't take anything else, either. I just put a lot of work into getting as much as I could into the smaller of the two, the one that might be injured, but he weighed 52grams before feeding and 52.1 after. NOT ENOUGH! It's very frustrating because I feel like I'm scaring them and forcing them to eat, and they aren't getting anything out of it.

So what might cause them to not want to eat?

-Not hungry enough/Haven't been away from mom long? They've been with us for 72 hours--they must be hungry and thirsty by now unless they're doing some sneaking around at night or between checks eating and drinking what I put in the box.

-Pneumonia? I was worried about that, so I read some forums to try to diagnose it. They definitely don't have any regular clicking. They click their teeth sometimes, but there's no clicking coming from their chest area.

-Injury? Not likely that they both sustained an identical injury. They both are refusing to eat in the same manner.

What other reasons might they be refusing food?

[CritterMom]

Are they warm enough, and is the rehydration fluid and formula you are offering warm enough? You might try warmer even if you think what you are doing is enough - they can be pretty picky. And cold babies won't eat.

[Fireweed]

Are they warm enough, and is the rehydration fluid and formula you are offering warm enough? You might try warmer even if you think what you are doing is enough - they can be pretty picky. And cold babies won't eat.

Good advice. :thumbsup
Also, try turning the lights right down to as dark as possible. Maybe the lights (if you have them on) and all they can see are unnerving them, since they nurse in complete darkness.

[3domfighter]

I think they are more weaned than I thought. I really worked hard today to find a method that would work. They wanted nothing to do with eating from a syringe. I put out a dish of goodies for them, which I doused in Pedialyte, but I didn't expect them to go for it. Well, when I checked on them at midnight tonight I noticed the entire bowl of food was eaten. I excitedly weighed each of them and, to my delight, BT grew about another gram, and Mini grew over 2 grams. I put in another bowl, still mixed with Pedialyte, but this time I included more healthy items like grasses, broccoli, and leafy greens. I also put in some avocado for great protein and fat, plus they were reared on the border of an avocado orchard--I'm sure that food will be familiar to them.

Gaining weight, eating soft foods, and heading to the vet tomorrow...all seems well for the orphans at the moment. I'll keep you updated.

Thanks for all the advice.