Seven-year-old gray, lethargic, hiccups, other oddities

[Lugnutt]

I have read and learned a tremendous amount from this site, but do not post because so many different reasons. I am posting now because we have a problem!

I was in the hospital for the last week and my wife does not know how to operate the computer, which is why he got so far along before I could post...

Three days ago my wife told me that he started acting very lethargic and was grumpy whenever she tried to handle him. (Very out of character for Rocky). Now that I have had a chance to see him, his back end has suffered as suffered some hair loss and appears to be swollen. He has been resting a lot with his butt stock up in the air.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/S4010017.jpg

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

HI glad you came out of hiding.
I have re sized your picture.
7 years old you say, good job!!
What is his diet, we need to know this to help, if he is in pain I would start by putting him in a smaller cage , so as not to injure himself ,with a heating pad 1/2 underneath it.

[Nancy in New York]

I just resized your picture so that your post would be easier to read.:)

[Lugnutt]

Thanks for resizing the picture, I have no idea how to do that. I have a bunch more but they are all too large to post and Rocky is resting right now so I do not want to stress him out by taking more pictures. Any help or suggestions on picture posting would be good!

Rockies diet is directly from this board here. He gets his daily veggies which include broccoli, kale, cabbage, carrots, outside Green's such as clover, dandelions, etc. he has a 4x4 inside cage, 7 feet high and gets let out to his outside cage which is 10 x 16 almost daily as weather permits. Inside this cage grows the typical grass and weeds (we do not use pesticides fertilizer plant foods or anything else to treat the lawn) there is some chick weed, ground ivy, sour grass, wild strawberries, plantain, dandelions and whatever else grows naturally. He has had the same cage set up his entire life, so nothing is new in that aspect. Is indoor cage is on the southwest corner of our sun room, with standard basic glass and NOT any type of UV filtering. The room is of course air-conditioned, with late afternoon highs of approximately 80°. He does have typical pet store "ice cream cones"as calcium supplements and yes he does chew on them as well as his pumice, which are intended for sale to hamster owners.

I will be happy to answer any other questions. (By the way, Rocky is our third squirrel, others were successfully released, he is just too spoiled to go very far!)

[Lugnutt]

Oh, I almost forgot... we have moved down to a smaller cage which is approximately 18" x 36". I think this is a small cage for ferrets but it is what we used to transport him to and from our summer home in the mountain's. We were there in April, but he was not outside.

I also thought of one more thing that he does eat which is the fruit and nut land from tractor supply. Basically he eats the fruit and nibbles on the sunflower seeds, but he does receive this in moderation.

[Jackie in Tampa]

is he drinking?

[Lugnutt]

Why I keep forgetting all kinds of things...

yes he is drinking water, he is drinking approximately 10 mL of plain water from the bottle and an additional 6 to 8 droppers full of water with a few drops of honey mixed and to encourage hydration.

He is also eating some of his favorite foods such as broccoli and tomatoes a very tiny amount of apple sauce and a couple drops of molasses.

I am somewhat concerned about constipation so we have got about one drop of mineral oil in the front end and rubbed it in the back end as much as he would tolerate being touched.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

That was my next question..what does his poop look like?
Is it possible a bug could have bitten him on his little bum ?

[Nancy in New York]

How is he peeing? Does he seem to be straining when he pees?

[Lugnutt]

His poop looks fairly normal but possibly a little on the dry side. Like I said, we are forcing fluids, high moisture fruits and juices such as apple and cherry, mixed with water and a 50-50 ratio.

He seems to be peeing fine, it least whenever we take him out of his cage. (And of course he always seems to muster up the energy to get off his towel to go pee on something that you did not want him to... but isn't that what squirrels are supposed to do?) We have not been able to get a clear view as to whether the urine is clear, cloudy, etc., but we do not think it is any darker than normal.

It is possible that he got bitten while outside, but we do not know by what. We did find that his outside food bowl (Michele was afraid he would starve to death by his outside for a few hours) did have quite a few ants in it, but we do not have any real biting type ant's in Delaware. I would think however that if he was getting bit he would've simply move to another spot... there are plenty of trees and limbs and ropes and ladders for him to climb on.

[Nancy in New York]

I was thinking if he seemed to be straining when peeing that it could be crystals. So glad that you don't notice anything like that. Also they seem to only do a little bit at a time, since it's quite painful to go when you have those.
If he goes on something light or better yet, white; see if the urine looks dark, that's a sign of dehydration.
Wonder if a bee could have gotten him.
We have tons of wasps up here recently, not sure why...:dono

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,
we cannot find anything localized such as a bee sting, but possibly one or more very tiny bites???

A way to get rid of the wasps is to get artificial hornet nests. We simply make our own by taking gray plastic bags like they have at Lowe's and stuff them full of something like other plastic bags and hang them all around. Apparently wasp's and Hornets are territorial.

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy,
we cannot find anything localized such as a bee sting, but possibly one or more very tiny bites???

A way to get rid of the wasps is to get artificial hornet nests. We simply make our own by taking gray plastic bags like they have at Lowe's and stuff them full of something like other plastic bags and hang them all around. Apparently wasp's and Hornets are territorial.

Thanks for the tip, I will give that a try. But let me get this right....I just hang a plastic bag full of plastic bags and they go there?

[Lugnutt]

Hi Nancy,
you got it half right...

it is important that the outside bag be a gray bag so that it looks like a hornets nest. The shape is not extremely important, just do the best you can and punch a couple holes in the bottom to drain any rainwater. You then hang the bag where you do not want any wasps or hornets. Tear down as many existing nests as you can find, but do this at night time because they do not fly very well in the dark. Then when the wasps and hornets do come around they see all those big (fake) nests and they avoid the area.

[Nancy in New York]

Is your squirrel on any type of block?

[Nancy in New York]

Is your squirrel on any type of block?

A member on our board makes squirrel blocks you can order them here: She has an block called "Picky eaters". I wonder if at this age, this may be the one to go with as he may not accept blocks into his diet easily.
http://henryspets.com

Harlan Teklad is another block that people use, and you can purchase that at www.thecraftyrat

[Lugnutt]

ROCKY IS GETTING BETTER!

THANK you Nancy for keeping up with this thread, I was getting very worried when the thread had so many views and so few replies, I was worried that it may be terminal, but now I see a glimmer of hope!

No he is not on any type of blocks, but will try the links that you have provided. Hopefully he will like these better than anything else we've tried.

CURRENT STATUS...
we have been treating Rocky for three different ailments
1. Constipation
2. Dehydration
3. MBD

This evening he became a little more lively and started pooping, large moist pellets. I have still not been able to get a decisive urine sample, because he has slept for about 20 of the last 24 hours, only waking (with a very grumpy demeanor) to be force fed a mixture of Tums, cherry juice and water. He did get a little bit of an appetite and ate some broccoli (second favorite only to tomatoes) and drank some plain water. After about 30 minutes of stirring around, he went back to sleep. His breathing has become less labored and hickups/twitching has become less frequent. We plan on waking him after about a 2 to 3 hour nap and repeating the previous treatment.

We intend on discontinuing the mineral oil treatments on both ends unless instructed otherwise.

Swelling of rear end seems about the same, but he's now back to sleeping stretched out on his belly like a squirrels skin rug, or else on his side.


Still looking for more suggestion, but having a little more hope.

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,

I was reading in the other thread about the 10-year-old and noticed that you said there are members in Maryland. I hate to bother you, but I really do not have much of an idea of how to use any of the functions available here, other than just reading the various threads. With that said, suffice to say that I have been looking for someone close by (a vet). So to get to the point, I am located in Newark, Delaware which is actually less than 10 miles from crossing the Maryland and Pennsylvania and New Jersey state lines. I would be very grateful if you could direct me toward someone within reasonable driving distance.

Again, all assistance is greatly appreciated.

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy,

I was reading in the other thread about the 10-year-old and noticed that you said there are members in Maryland. I hate to bother you, but I really do not have much of an idea of how to use any of the functions available here, other than just reading the various threads. With that said, suffice to say that I have been looking for someone close by (a vet). So to get to the point, I am located in Newark, Delaware which is actually less than 10 miles from crossing the Maryland and Pennsylvania and New Jersey state lines. I would be very grateful if you could direct me toward someone within reasonable driving distance.

Again, all assistance is greatly appreciated.

Sure, let me do a little searching...there are two that come to mind, and I will pm you their names.
OR you can drive to New York, I have a fantastic vet.:D

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Lugnut
Can you Post a Picture of his Butt???
You can also send it to Nancy or Sweet Simmons Mommy for resizing.
Did you raise him from a Baby? About what age was Rocky when you found him? Have you Offered some FoxVally Formula or FoxVally Powder mixed with Vanilla Yogurt? :thinking Offer it to him 1 time a day it will help with the MBD and Lacking Vitamins.
Is he eating any kind of Squirrel or Rodent Block. :dono I can send a little FV to try and see if He likes it. So you are not out $$$ if he doesn't. :D Jackie has a Great Milk Shake recipe for MBD Squirrels. I have been using it for some time,
on one of My MBD Flyer's. Usually if he is Chewing on the Calcium Snow Cone, or Cuddle Bone a lot, He is still lacking it in his Diet. (When 2 of mine start chewing on the Cone I will offer a little more FV with a little more Calcium Carbonate added to it.) Darla Is my Very Very Picky Eater. :eek: MuffinSquirrel and I came up with this mixture, while treating several MBD Flying Squirrels and Squirrel. If you would like some FoxVally. Just PM your Address and I will send you alittle. :thumbsup
PS
Darla is my Picky Picky eater.
She will not eat Squirrel Block or Rodent Blocks. When the Mood hits, she will just Stop eating all Store Bought Food!!! :Dino (Only Wild, out side food will do when this happens.)
I know When Darla gets low on Calcium she will get Grumpy and Nippy. Any time I handle her She Squeaks, Squeals, and Raises Cain, Cusses me the whole time. :D
When the Calcium & Minerals Level are all good. She is back to being her normal charming self. Playing Eating and Cuddling.

[Lugnutt]

Mrs. S Skul,
it is a very long story and I am a very very slow typer so in summary...
Rocky was about two months old when we got him. We really do not know his diet before we got him, but I found a "squirrel diet" sheet on this board which we followed as best we could. I have never heard of Fox Valley anything until the last 24 hours and I will be calling pet shops as soon as they open. Rocky will not I repeat NOT eat any type of rodent blocks which we have been able to locate. And he is very weird appetite. His favorite foods are wild stuff, tomatoes (his favorite) followed by broccoli, kale, cabbage, mushrooms and whatever mommy is eating.

This ailment came on so fast, we have been treating it as fast and furious as we can. As I have stated before, I REALLY REALLY do not understand how to use this board in the capacity that I am sure that it must be able to work. I have basically been reading every thread that remotely resembles Rocky's condition since Sunday morning. I am honestly still not 100% certain that it is MBD, but I think it may be contributing to something else.

By the way, other things that Rocky does not like include peanut butter and yogurt (although I just realized he was never tried Greek yogurt) I never really pushed the issue because I thought cows milk was a big no-no for squirrels. Isn't yogurt made from cows milk?

Am I correct in assuming that Fox Valley powder is something that will store longer then the formula? Is one better than the other? Money is not an issue in this case, only Rocky's health and the assurance that he will not be confiscated and/or euthanized away from home. Additionally he cannot stand to be away from mommy! He cries bloodcurdling screams when he is by himself for too long. He has always done this since the first release attempt where he was attacked by a cat, returned home three days after the beginning of his "adventure" when he was about four months old. He stops crying when someone comes into the room and pays him lots of attention, but never really settles down until mommy gets him for some cuddle time.

I apologize for having ramblings/scatterbrain postings, but my wife and I are both mentally and physically exhausted over this ordeal. You see, our family is a little unusual in the fact that I broke my neck years ago and I'm a quadriplegic, relying on my wife for almost everything, including my IV antibiotics that I am currently receiving at home after a solid week in the hospital on IV antibiotics for cellulitis (which is obviously not contagious).

I will now go figure out how to e-mail Nancy my pictures.

Thank you again!

[CritterMom]

Well you have a great deal on your plates!

Fox Valley is a manufacturer of wild animal formulas specific to species that is vastly superior to any of the commercially available puppy/kitten formulas (and wonder of wonders, less expensive, too). It is sold in powder form and reconstituted with water for feeding. There are two we use for squirrels - teeny babies get "Fox Valley Day 1 32/40" which is 32% protein, 40% fat; and graduate as young teens to "20/50" which is 20% protein and 50% fat.

Nancy suggested and I would reiterate the Picky Blocks from Henry's Pets: www.henryspets.com. They are nothing like any other commercially produced block and most squirrels really do like them. You can purchase both the Fox Valley formula and the blocks from Henry's.

[Lugnutt]

Thanks critter mom,
I am actually getting a little overwhelmed with choices and options. I did find the websites but have not yet ordered because I was hoping to find something locally which would be faster than ordering. So I propose this...

could someone locate someone closer to me to send me some of that powder and/or food blocks as fast as possible. I will gladly pay whatever cost is asked as well as postage for priority, express, or even overnight delivery as however they see fit.

Secondly, could you direct me to locate the "milkshake recipe", or anything else that I could use that would be better than Tums and cherry juice/water mixture. (I did check the ingredients and they contain only 1000 mg calcium carbonate, with some other non-active ingredients)

obviously I was still order the feed blocks from the website in Florida.

Thanks in advance

[Jackie in Tampa]

just want to share COW MILK info..
it is not poison, it simply does not have enough nutrition to support the needs of a sq.
It lacks in so many ways...
so yogurt is safe...I use it as a way to ensure the good bacteria in my sqs tummies..
keeps everything running smoothly. It is healthy also, has many good things in it besides live cultures.
Anything that has calcium is good,
as that is the big need in captive sqs.
Once you get him on the healthy diet, his life will improve and his happiness and play time will extend.
sending all of you hugs...
I WILL pm YOU THE MILKSHAKE RECIPE.

[CritterMom]

Someone probably can, but...Leigh, the woman who owns Henry's (Henry is her squirrel) is a TSB member. I usually get my stuff in 3 days using her regular USPS shipping, which is like $5.99 - and I live in Maine.

She has done a lot of study in the area of MBD and can probably help to steer you in the right direction as far as purchases are concerned. There is a telephone number at the site - every time I have called it I get her! She is a nice lady who is a squirrel person and knows full well how dire MBD can be - she may have some even faster shipping options that won't put you in the poorhouse. I think you will wind up spending less total $$ doing this.

[Lugnutt]

I want to thank everyone for their help so far, but I just wanted to let everyone know that things have taken a turn for the worse. Rocky is now severely dehydrated and through discussions with a couple of people on this board and "unofficial" conversations with local veterinarians, current condition is grave and out of our hands.

ALL THOUGHTS PRAYERS AND POSITIVE ENERGIES ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

[Nancy in New York]

I want to thank everyone for their help so far, but I just wanted to let everyone know that things have taken a turn for the worse. Rocky is now severely dehydrated and through discussions with a couple of people on this board and "unofficial" conversations with local veterinarians, current condition is grave and out of our hands.

ALL THOUGHTS PRAYERS AND POSITIVE ENERGIES ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Did you try to reach out to any of the members that I gave you? The ones in Maryland?

[Nancy in New York]

Did you try to reach out to any of the members that I gave you? The ones in Maryland?
Perhaps you get get somebody to at least SubQ him...:dono

[Nancy in New York]

Are you trying to give him fluids? Without that he most likely will not make it.

I would start syringe feeding him now...slowly to not aspirate.



1 tsp salt (teaspoon)
3 Tbsp sugar (tablespoon)
1 quart warm water

Keep refrigerated.

[Nancy in New York]

Please do not give up on him.Dehydration can be deadly, this could have been his problem all along.
Get fluid into him...NOW


Water bottles can clog and stop working is this what you were using?

[Lugnutt]

I understand everyone's concern and it is all good advice. I am waiting on a local vet to call me back again about any possible hydration techniques. I feel certain that he would not survive the drive to the vet in Maryland and our only hope is for something to be done here at home or within 5 to 10 miles. I am also open to any instructions which we could even receive over the telephone. Remember, I currently have IVs myself, I've been through, seen and worked on many medical conditions

[Nancy in New York]

I understand everyone's concern and it is all good advice. I am waiting on a local vet to call me back again about any possible hydration techniques. I feel certain that he would not survive the drive to the vet in Maryland and our only hope is for something to be done here at home or within 5 to 10 miles. I am also open to any instructions which we could even receive over the telephone. Remember, I currently have IVs myself, I've been through, seen and worked on many medical conditions

I'm sending you a pm.

[Lugnutt]

I just realized, that I did not provide full information...

Rocky is now nearly unresponsive and will not drink any type of fluid including the rehydration fluid that we have been giving him for the last four days. The ONLY hope would be if I could somehow get fluids to him directly, because he certainly could not take them by mouth.

One final note, he has only stopped drinking in the last 24 to 36 hours. It may be my fault that no one really understood how sick he really was all along.

[Nancy in New York]

I just realized, that I did not provide full information...

Rocky is now nearly unresponsive and will not drink any type of fluid including the rehydration fluid that we have been giving him for the last four days. The ONLY hope would be if I could somehow get fluids to him directly, because he certainly could not take them by mouth.

One final note, he has only stopped drinking in the last 24 to 36 hours. It may be my fault that no one really understood how sick he really was all along.

I sent you everything I have on sub qing....good luck.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Lugnutt]

THANKS NANCY!

Reading as fast as possible, contact by e-mail if urgent. (That way I will here the announcement chime)

[Lugnutt]

By the way, vet called, basically said would not do that to most animals, especially wilds.

[Nancy in New York]

By the way, vet called, basically said would not do that to most animals, especially wilds.


I cannot send you an email, I do not have your email address.
The vet said that he wouldn't sub q a wild animal? WOW the information is right from the wild mammal book.:dono

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeygoa25hoI
doesn't or shouldn't matter what the animal if it needs help. Maybe this vet cant do wilds because of laws in your area:dono

[Lugnutt]

After a lot of reassuring my wife, her watching the video, knot in the stomachs, etc. 6 mL have been injected subcutaneously. Everything looks and feels as we would expect to. We did manage to get another 8 to 12 mL of the homemade Pedialyte, during two different "strongly encouraged" feeding sessions (being careful so that he does not aspirate) between him falling to sleep.

[Lugnutt]

And I was in too big of a hurry to post but I wanted to say...

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE for the help in getting this done ourselves.

Next guess is to wait and hope?

[Nancy in New York]

And I was in too big of a hurry to post but I wanted to say...

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE for the help in getting this done ourselves.

Next guess is to wait and hope?
:highfive Nice job....I think that you were at the point where you HAD NO OTHER CHOICE than to subQ.

[redwuff]

Hugs and Prayers to all.

Trysh

[Nancy in New York]

Sorry I could not get the email to go through.

Do you have a heat source for him?
Just make sure that it's on LOW. AND put it half under the container
that he is in, and half off. This way if it gets too hot, he will be able to
move off of it.
If you do not have a heating pad, you
can take a cup of uncooked rice, put it in a sock and microwave for 1 minute,
squish it around so there are no hot spots, and wrap it in fleece and place it
next to him.

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,
yes we do have a heating pad under half of his cage, but not sure he even has the strength to move around the cage very much. So we have opted for keeping him wrapped in a tee shirt on the bed next to me all day. In his current state, he has only scooted around in about a 10 inch circle.

I am wondering how long to wait before we see any improvement? Should we repeat the process and if so, when? How much should be injected at each site (we did 3 mL on each side)

the one thing that I cannot understand is. How can his skin feels stiff and dehydrated if he is not peeing dark? Secondly, he has been getting a good bit of water and juice along with the calcium and us giving him 5 to 10 mL per day of the homemade Pedialyte?

Me feeling very confused

[Nancy in New York]

I just realized, that I did not provide full information...

Rocky is now nearly unresponsive and will not drink any type of fluid including the rehydration fluid that we have been giving him for the last four days. The ONLY hope would be if I could somehow get fluids to him directly, because he certainly could not take them by mouth.

One final note, he has only stopped drinking in the last 24 to 36 hours. It may be my fault that no one really understood how sick he really was all along.


Just wanted to ask, I am trying to figure out what in the heck is going on...so while rereading I saw that you were giving hydration fluid for the last 4 days?????? By that do you mean pedialyte? This should only be given for 24 hours....but I am not sure if that's what you meant.

[jo_schmoe]

Poor baby.....sending all the positive energy I can...:grouphug
What is his output like? ( how much is he peeing)

[Lugnutt]

We have been forcing fluids all along. It has been pretty much hit or miss if he would drink anything at all. Mostly however it is the homemade hydration fluid that he will take. He has also been getting plain water and/or water/fruit juice to get the calcium in the syringe. With everything combined, this total liquid intake has been about 10 to 15 mL per day.

Like I said originally, I have spent hours and hours on this board over the years, just reading. Since Rocky's ailment began, I have spent 18 to 20 hours per day, just reading and relating information to my wife and of course Dick dating the messages on this thread.

[Lugnutt]

This output had dropped nothing to zero for one day, but that evening and he was out of his cage he went back to leaving a bout a quarter sized white spot once per day, sometimes twice. It has never been dark color, or had any foul odor.

In all honesty, it is almost like we have a narcoleptic squirrel, too tired to eat, drink, or do much of anything else, it is almost like he falls asleep while trying to tail groom... Sometimes he just falls over in slow motion, also reminiscent of being drunk.

[jo_schmoe]

We have been forcing fluids all along. It has been pretty much hit or miss if he would drink anything at all. Mostly however it is the homemade hydration fluid that he will take. He has also been getting plain water and/or water/fruit juice to get the calcium in the syringe. With everything combined, this total liquid intake has been about 10 to 15 mL per day.

Like I said originally, I have spent hours and hours on this board over the years, just reading. Since Rocky's ailment began, I have spent 18 to 20 hours per day, just reading and relating information to my wife and of course Dick dating the messages on this thread.
You want to be careful about giving hydration fluid for more than 24 hrs.
High sodium content can have adverse effects.
Are you seeing any stools? If so what color....and is he outputting what you are putting in?? Any bloating?

[jo_schmoe]

This output had dropped nothing to zero for one day, but that evening and he was out of his cage he went back to leaving a bout a quarter sized white spot once per day, sometimes twice. It has never been dark color, or had any foul odor.

In all honesty, it is almost like we have a narcoleptic squirrel, too tired to eat, drink, or do much of anything else, it is almost like he falls asleep while trying to tail groom... Sometimes he just falls over in slow motion, also reminiscent of being drunk.
White? Maybe a more experienced member can comment on that but I have never seen a squirrel pee white. Has it always been white?? Or just since the additional calcium?
Sorry for all the questions.....I was asked by another member to come and take a look....just trying to help figure this out.
:Love_Icon Rocky:Love_Icon

[Lugnutt]

His stool has been mostly normal after the initial constipation episode, until the day when it became much darker, dryer firmer. It was also extremely limited to a couple pebbles dropping out when he was wiggling around "really well "(almost walking a few steps)

[Lugnutt]

I am sorry, voice recognition software is not always perfect and my brain is so foggy I'm not catching all of the mistakes.

It was not a white spot, it was a wet spot.

Sorry about that!

[jo_schmoe]

I am sorry, voice recognition software is not always perfect and my brain is so foggy I'm not catching all of the mistakes.

It was not a white spot, it was a wet spot.

Sorry about that!
Whew!! LOL...ok!

And he wont eat any sort of block as in ever??

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks so much jo....glad you were on.:grouphug
This is just a mystery to me.
I wished I had some idea of what we are dealing with.
Have to call it a night soon. I can only say, that I wished there was something that would all of a sudden click as to what this can be.
I wonder if he could have a UTI? Do you have any sort of antibiotics?

[Lugnutt]

Jo,
no blocks ever, just worked extremely hard at finding independent sources for calcium in odd places.

Nancy,
we wish it was very easy too, but this is the hardest thing I've had to deal with... Honestly worse than when my mother passed, and when my dog passed (and I promise you he was no ordinary dog... anyone could speak to him in plain English as if he were human, the understood and followed directions and NEVER EVER left my side, never even on a leash on a park. Most people do not believe me when I tell them that as we did have a mental connection.)

Back to Rocky, yes, I have a ton of antibiotics. Now what?

[jo_schmoe]

Jo,
no blocks ever, just worked extremely hard at finding independent sources for calcium in odd places.

Nancy,
we wish it was very easy too, but this is the hardest thing I've had to deal with... Honestly worse than when my mother passed, and when my dog passed (and I promise you he was no ordinary dog... anyone could speak to him in plain English as if he were human, the understood and followed directions and NEVER EVER left my side, never even on a leash on a park. Most people do not believe me when I tell them that as we did have a mental connection.)

Back to Rocky, yes, I have a ton of antibiotics. Now what?
How does he take to mushrooms??
Is his fur dry and sort of brittle?
:thinking

[astra]

Back to Rocky, yes, I have a ton of antibiotics. Now what?
could you list them? names and strengths and form (pill, liquid etc).

THis will allow our experts to make suggestions if/as needed.
Also, if you could get his weight in grams, that will be important to determine the dose, again if needed

Amazing story about your dog...

As I was reading through the thread, just want to make sure that the pedialyte is stopped (sorry, if it was already said, I was rushing through the posts and must have missed that).

[Lugnutt]

Mushrooms are part of his regular diet and do not get between him and his mushrooms! Only mommy can fight him away from them!

He gets fresh as well as freeze dried mushrooms.

Nothing really unusual with this fur, except that he is currently still shedding his winter coat. Although come to think of it, I believe it has gotten worse over the last couple days.

[Lugnutt]

It is very hard to get police recognition software to recognize unusual words, but here goes

Cipro
keflex
Bactrim
various penicillins in tablet form
several other pills and capsules that I cannot that I cannot remember.
Possibly even zmax

IV solutions of
vancomycin
zosin(sp?)

Others can be obtained easily, but possibly not immediately.

[Lugnutt]

The home-made Pedialyte was the only thing he would drink on occasion, but as of this evening we are doing only water.

[Skul]

Hmmm, I'm the other "SkuL".
Right now, I don't see anything you're doing wrong.
This might sound strange....
...do you see or feel there is abnormal behaviour?
Do some serious observation. The munchkin may be showing a desire to be set free.
I know it's hard, you must consider that.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

How is the little one doing this morning. Do you have any pets that go outside and could possibly bring in a tick? Does Rocky go outside, ever?

[CritterMom]

I am wondering if this is a case of getting slightly dehydrated, which killed the appetite, which caused worse dehydration, which killed the appetite...and so on.

You can use the rehydration formula WITHOUT the salt if you wish - the sweetness of the sugar may make him like it better. I would also see if your wife can run out and get some Ensure - the nutrition shakes they sell at pretty much every grocery/drug store. It is sweet and absolutely packed with nutrition and calories. They usually like it once they try it because it is sweet. Heat it and try with the syringe, just like feeding baby formula. You can easily hide the calcium in it, too. Getting some FOOD on board may help with the lethargy.

A note about mushrooms: they are an excellent source of Vitamin D, BUT they are absolutely PACKED with phosphorus, so eating a lot of them will deplete calcium just like corn would. Lots of mushrooms mean that lots of calcium has to also be consumed. I would use them as something he gets a bit of a couple times a week, but not LOTS of.

Try the Ensure. Even if you have to feed drop by drop, getting some nutrition into him may help.

[jbtartell]

pooor Rocky, Listen to TSB they can help. My Sam is 7 going on 8.I know how it feels to have them sick and not know what to do or why. I wish I lived closer I would come and sub Q. and try to look him over for you. It has me puzzled also. Is he making any noise? such as wining or raspy noises?

[jbtartell]

I hope all is well, sitting on pin and needles to find out how Rocky is doing. anybody know?

[Lugnutt]

I apologize to everyone for posting late today, but five consecutive nights of only two hours of sleep each night finally caught up to me. I actually fell back to sleep before my nurse's aide left. Three extra hours of sleep really help clear the mental cobwebs!

Now the good(?) News...
Rocky has quite a bit of energy today and has drank 40 mL of water so far, accepted about 125 mg of tums crushed into about one third of a teaspoon of Greek yogurt and 1 1/2 teaspoons of cows milk. Has enough mental alertness and energy to scamper 30 feet toward the sun room where his "home" cage is located. By the end of the 30 feet he is near exhaustion, moving very slowly and eventually stops and falls over to his side in slow motion.

Other observation...
he is alert enough to become inquisitive whenever he hears my voice (enough to around and see what is going on) and showing excitement when hears mommy's voice! Actively seeks mommy's pets and grunts at mommy when he is not getting his way and goes "Freddy" when he decides he has had enough to eat!

We believe in the metaphysical properties of gems and crystals and night before last decided to place a 5 pound calcite crystal in his cage with him. From the minute we put it in his cage he has actively seek the crystal and sleeps either on top or hugging the crystal.

My wife just went to work and because he has drank so much water so fast, she pulled this bottle from the cage until my daughter gets home.

I am going to take the next 15 minutes or so and go back through the many posts and see if I can clear up some confusion that has happened (mostly due to the fact that I am using voice recognition computer software with a horse scratchy voice, extremely foggy brain and being overwhelmed trying to reply to so many wonderfully helpful and concerned people here on the squirrel board!)

[Nancy in New York]

I say....whatever works, I'm all for it.:thumbsup
BUT, if he is drinking so much water....his body is telling him that he needs it.
I would keep the water bottle there. His body may be trying to flush something out.
Just thinking out loud.

[SammysMom]

I'm happy to hear that Rocky is seemingly better! I would NEVER take away a water bottle though. :nono Water is one thing that should never be withheld especially when it seems that dehydration has played a part in this problem. :grouphug Rocky:grouphug
You beat me to it Nancy!!!

[Milo's Mom]

Ditto that on the water. Do not take his water bottle from him. Please put it right back where it was, so he knows exactly where it is and does not have to go searching for it. He was dehydrated and you got him somewhat rehydrated, now that he is able to drink on his own he will continue to rehydrate himself.

[Lugnutt]

This post is for clarification of things that have been confused and may not have been thoroughly or accurately explained...

1. For the first few days we were pushing fluids by using 50-50 mix of cherry juice and water. When he became less interested in this, we switched to a homemade Pedialyte (sugar, salt, water mixture) for about 30 hours. This 30 hour timeline includes the 8 to 12 mL that we forced last night. (In one post I had written that he had stopped drinking for 24 to 36 hours, it was actually 12 to 18 hours, again, this was the fault of my foggy brain)

2. My wife did successfully inject 6 mL of normal saline (0.9% injectable) using a one-inch 25gauge needle on a 3 mL syringe. (It is really a very simple procedure that we would have never hesitated, if I had had enough sense to tell one of you to call me to describe the procedure! Like I said before, we have a very extensive medical knowledge base, just not the certificates to show that it is "official") I want to send a special thank you to Nancy in New York and Simon's mommy for the exact information I needed!

2(b). A sidenote pertaining to number two above, we believe the added stress aggravation and pinprick of the needle is why he became awake and aware enough that we were able to force (orally) the 8 to 12 mL discussed in number one above.

3. I found another typo of mine in message number 47 of this thread! The correct reading should have been, dictating, NOT Dick dating! (The current tears were embarrassed laughter, are a much welcome change from the tears of the last several days!)

4. In message number 51 of this thread, the correct reading should have been until today, NOT until THE day. In other words, early yesterday afternoon is when his stove became very dark and dry, which was my first indication that he was becoming dehydrated and we started panicking, especially since he was so lethargic yesterday and could hardly take anything by mouth.

5. He did get some nutrition yesterday, I honestly do not know how many mL he took yesterday, it was the same yogurt mixture that he took this morning. I have searched everywhere, but cannot find the post, so I am going to guess that it was 8 to 10 mL (again, that's only a guess)

I will go ahead and post this much, catch up on everything that has been posted this morning and while I have been reviewing the posts for the last four days and follow-up with another post like this one ASAP.

[astra]

Ditto that on the water. .
:thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

3. I found another typo of mine in message number 47 of this thread! The correct reading should have been, dictating, NOT Dick dating! (The current tears were embarrassed laughter, are a much welcome change from the tears of the last several days!).


I read that and knew exactly what you meant.....:rotfl

[Lugnutt]

This is an urgent and immediate response to Nancy, Sammy's mom and Milo mom...

I would normally agree with you, BUT here is my logic that I must disagree with you... after careful consideration please reply ASAP!

The timeline for Rocky's turn around is as follows...

6:00 AM shallow breathing, 95% unresponsive

7:00 AM deeper breathing, 95% unresponsive

8:00 AM no change since 7:00 AM

9:00 AM a small amount of stirring around, 75% unresponsive

9:30 AM alert, looking in the direction of my voice, watching other people walk by and following their movements with his head.

9:40 AM I HEAR MOMMY!!! Crawling all around the cage, standing on the hind legs holding on to bars anxious for mommy's attention. Sent nurses aide to get fresh water in the bottle (had been removed from cage last night because it still had the homemade Pedialyte in it from yesterday evening. This was moments before my wife crashed at 2:30 AM. She drives a school bus and did not think to change the bottle to regular water when she left for work at 5:30 AM)

9:45 AM water bottle was held in front of Rocky and he drinks 20 mL nonstop. Water was then withheld, yogurt milk and calcium mixture prepared and administered as stated above. (There's not much room in a squirrels belly for 20 mL of water and much-needed nutrition and calcium)

11:30 AM water bottle held in front of Rocky, he drinks 10 mL nonstop, bottle was then removed to attempt further nutrition, it only took another .5 mL

11:30 AM-12:15 PM wife takes much-needed nap, before returning to drive school bus for 4 1/2 hours.

12:15 PM-12:30 PM another attempt at nutrition administration,

12:30 PM water bottle placed in usual spot where Rocky drinks another 10 mL nonstop and moves away to lay down and rest.

12:30 PM-1:00 PM much contemplation and observation with no more attempts to drink and considering the fact that due to my paralysis there is no one here to remove bottle should I observe him drinking what I would consider too much.

1:00 PM we remove water bottle, knowing that our daughter will be here between 3:30 PM and 4:00 PM to return water bottle, monitor intake and attempt additional feeding. By this time, we should receive our package from Leih which shed have better ingredients for nutrition.

With all of this considered, should he be given as much water as he wants WITHOUT concern of nutrition or water toxicity?

I am anxiously awaiting a response before my daughter comes here any minute.

[jbtartell]

Yes leave the water for him he knows what he needs.. let hinm have as much as he wants.. he will pee out the extra..lol soo glad he is doing better, :grouphug :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Well this is a mute point right now, since your daughter will be home shortly. BUT I would think that after all that he has been through, that his brain was telling him he needed hydration.
I have to be honest, I do not know the definitive answer to this....is there such a thing as too much water when dealing with a situation like this?:dono
Do you know how much he weighs?

[Lugnutt]

Hello "other" Skul,

Behavior has been like clockwork for the past 6 1/2 years (another words, after he got settled and healed up from his cat fight of his first release attempt. He has had many "squirrel-dini" episodes over the years, but he has never stayed gone more than a day or so, only to return to the window to scratch and bite and chew until someone lets him in, or he runs in under your feet and then returns to his inside cage to get a long drink and plays squirrel-skin rug. After a long rest he returns to his normal behavior. Additionally, whenever he is trying to get in the house, the noises he makes, is like a hawk magnet! There will be three hawks circling within 15 minutes... this behavior is so predictable, I have won wagers on whether or not I can bring Hawks here.

The ONLY change in attitude was the one at the beginning of this ailment on Friday between 6 AM and 9 PM

[rusty's mom]

I can't add more than what these knowledgeable squirrellers have already said but I can add my prayers. Here at Hazel House we're saying don't give up Rocky your important to a lot of people.

[Nancy in New York]

If you take the guidelines and apply them to Rocky. He could have 5-7% of his body weight. BUT these guidelines are for babies who are on formula. But going with that, Rocky looks to be minimum of 600 grams, which would be 30-42 cc's per feeding, which is usually 4 hours daily when feeding babies. Does this make sense?
I know that you are concerned too with nutrition, but if there is dehydration involved they will not eat. And this is only one day.....right?

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,
now that I have gotten some feedback, especially from you, I derived my logic of restricting water based on the tables that you provided concerning rehydration which were in the documents that you provided.

As I am dictating this, it sounds a little harsh, but I promise you it is NOT meant to be. I am only presenting this information to determine what to do when my daughter walks in the door any minute.

Additionally, did ye received the photographs that I e-mailed you?

[Lugnutt]

You are correct that approximately 600 g.

The way I read the tables was "total daily replacement fluids"(image three, page 57)

my daughter is here waiting for input.

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy,
now that I have gotten some feedback, especially from you, I derived my logic of restricting water based on the tables that you provided concerning rehydration which were in the documents that you provided.

As I am dictating this, it sounds a little harsh, but I promise you it is NOT meant to be. I am only presenting this information to determine what to do when my daughter walks in the door any minute.

Additionally, did ye received the photographs that I e-mailed you?


Nothing sounds harsh. Not at all, so no concern there...:)

To be honest, I didn't even read what I sent you....I was in such a rush to scan and get them out....:hidechair
Let me go check my email.

[Nancy in New York]

You are correct that approximately 600 g.

The way I read the tables was "total daily replacement fluids"(image three, page 57)

my daughter is here waiting for input.

OK this is what you are referring to.
The way I am reading this is, if you have to SubQ them this is what you give, not what they will take on their own. Somebody correct me if I am misreading.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Hydration%20SubQ/720507710.jpg

[Nancy in New York]

Somebody help, because now I am confused....:D
Rereading, I see your concern because it says TOTAL.

[skarabrae]

It says this is how much fluid MUST be given (I'm thinking, as in must be given for survival). Nowhere does it say that you're only allowed to give that much fluid.

If the kid is dehydrated, the more fluid the better. Water intoxication is extremely extremely rare phenomenon (in humans at least, I'm sure animals are the same).

If she's drinking a lot it's because she probably needs it. If she continues drinking so much water, she could have developed diabetes.

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,
see image four page 51 and page 52.

[SammysMom]

We sort of have to assume that instinct is better than our information. Animals and humans alike should have access to water at all times. I speak from experience and dehydration is a very dangerous situation! I have never seen anyone on TSB even make mention of withholding water for any reason. However, dehydration is an all too common problem.:nono

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy,
see image four page 51 and page 52.

I am posting so that others can see also. Then I will delete.
Oh by the way, I didn't get any email. Can you resend?
***

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Hydration%20SubQ/720507704.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Hydration%20SubQ/720507705.jpg

[Lugnutt]

On a side note, after my injury 24 years ago, I had unexplained EXTREME thirst and was drinking an average of 3 gallons per day. My electrolytes went crazy, various medications had to be stopped, additional side effects there, recurrence of pneumonia, increased ventilator dependence, etc. It was VERY ROUGH physically and emotionally.

I'm not arguing, just confused!

[Milo's Mom]

I just read the charts that were posted here. What I get from reading them is that depending on the percentage of dehydration and the weight of the baby it lists the total amount of fluids to be given during a 24 hour period on days 1, 2 and 3.

I will pull out my book and see if there are clarifying words on the page before or after.

[Nancy in New York]

OK what stands out to me on page 51 is "If you are hydrating a healthy baby, use regular feeding amounts.

BUT this does not coincide with the chart for amounts to be administered.:dono

[SammysMom]

With your history, I can sure see how this would seem confusing. It just really sounded to me like dehydration was part of the initial issue so removing the water seemed like it not a good idea for Rocky.

[Nancy in New York]

On a side note, after my injury 24 years ago, I had unexplained EXTREME thirst and was drinking an average of 3 gallons per day. My electrolytes went crazy, various medications had to be stopped, additional side effects there, recurrence of pneumonia, increased ventilator dependence, etc. It was VERY ROUGH physically and emotionally.

I'm not arguing, just confused!

Me too!
(oh I mean confused....not arguing):D

[Milo's Mom]

I just read the book!! Per the book "The rehydration charts give suggestions to help you treat varying degrees of dehydration. Check the rehydration charts to find the suggested replacement amounts to give the baby. These amounts are to be given in addition to the maintenance amounts."

"maintenance fluids + replacement fluids = correct amounts for rehydration"

The maintenance amounts are 5-7% of body weight, PLUS the amount listed in the rehydration chart.

[Lugnutt]

Refer to page 54

[Nancy in New York]

Just read the book!! Per the book "The rehydration charts give suggestions to help you treat varying degrees of dehydration. Check the rehydration charts to find the suggested replacement amounts to give the baby. These amounts are to be given in addition to the maintenance amounts."

"maintenance fluids + replacement fluids = correct amounts for rehydration"

The maintenance amounts are 5-7% of body weight, PLUS the amount listed in the rehydration chart.


PLUS would be the key word we were looking for.
Thank you MM....:bowdown

[Lugnutt]

Sorry, refer to page 55...

okay, now I see the word plus. Returning water bottle now.

Nancy could you provide the page list maintenance amounts? Please!

[Lugnutt]

As stated, water bottle was returned. Rocky continued one long continuous drink, pursued bottle are being removed, but quickly decided it was not worth too much effort and return to his little nest area. We were refilling the bottle and measuring the amount that it took to refill and Rocky decided to come out of nest, thought he decided to pee but do not see a wet spot. He stayed outside of his box and is watching the bottle refill which took 30 mL.

I plan on giving him a break for a few minutes, but he does look more alert, even though this drink has not had a chance to get into his system.

The emergency MBD treatment kit is here from Leih, incorporate anything?

[Lugnutt]

We see pee!!

The urine is so clear it does not leave a stain on a white microfiber cloth. We could feel that it was damp and held under 300 W of halogen light appears to be approximately the size of a half a dollar!

Still deciding when to return water. So far daily water amounts are...

about 10:00 PM 20 mL
about 12:30 PM 20 mL
about 4:45 PM, 35 mL

giving him a break for a few minutes is when he decided to go pee waiting to decide when to return water and when to incorporate items from Henry's pets.

[jbtartell]

I would say give it back. my sam drinks almost a bottle of water a day when she feels good. water is good for them and when on heat they can get thirsty. the only time I would say watch the water intake is when they have had none at all. when they are sick they need it.. rocky wants his bottle:Love_Icon :poke .. lol

[Nancy in New York]

Sorry, refer to page 55...

okay, now I see the word plus. Returning water bottle now.

Nancy could you provide the page list maintenance amounts? Please!

Sorry lost my phone and computer for the past 3 hours....:shakehead
Here ya go.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Hydration%20SubQ/720507708.jpg

[jbtartell]

soo how is he now? will he go to the water on his own or does he need help?

[Lugnutt]

I am back now...
Rocky has this water bottle and drank a little more after we gave it back to him, then he finished his yogurt tums shake (1.5 mL). I had lost my Internet for a while now that I have it back, I can keep a better update unless the storms knocked out again.

His drinking has slowed way down, but he continues to drink plain water.

He is still taking intermittent spells of being lethargic and being a tiny bit mobile. (Sometimes he is sleeping and acting drunk, five minutes later he can come out of this box walked across the cage, pee then go back to bed.)

We are currently trying to get another 3 mL of the new shake made with this stuff from Henry's pets. At this particular moment, he is being his sleepy personality.

I will continue to read any posts or private messages but want to post if there is something that changes, or answer questions.

[Lugnutt]

He is coming out of his box and getting drinks as he decides to get them, but he prefers not to walk the extra 6 inches. We have encouraged him to start drinking by himself by giving him a taste of the water and then putting it on the cage, then he decides to collect and finish getting his own drink. Sometimes he gets a drink before or after his bathroom trip.

[Nancy in New York]

Keep doing what you are doing, sounds a heck of a lot better than last night at this time....:shakehead
Do you know if there are any tender spots on Rocky, especially in the hip area? Is there any chance that he could have a tick on him?

[Lugnutt]

By the way, he has started pooping again! They are normal, large and moist.

We did finish getting another 3 mL of shake into him, but it took a lot of fighting to keep them awake. (This is the shake made with the new ingredients from the Henry's) this brings his total daily intake of calcium 400 to 500 mg. We will attempt to give another 100 to 200 mg around 1 AM.

He has partially shredded one block, but has not really eaten any to speak of.

[Lugnutt]

Heating pad concerns...
I keep running over in my head, how Rocky became so dehydrated so fast. The only thing that I can figure out is that he is getting too hot and lacks the ambition to move. Additionally, the law only rest peacefully if he is in a small box inside the cage. If the box is not in there, he constantly squirms around the entire cage and never gets any rest. All of yesterday, we kept him covered up with a T-shirt, on the bed against my arm, or he would wiggle over against the large calcite crystal. If he was in either place, he would rest peacefully. When he is in the cage without the box he scoots all over the cage, or else scoots all around the crystal, which like I said, doesn't allow him to rest.

What do you guys think of removing the heating pad, leaving the fuzzies in the box in the crystal beside it. I feel confident that he will sleep soundly this way, but afraid it may allow him to sleep to soundly and he forgets to drink enough.

Thoughts and opinions... please

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,
there is no real tender spots to speak of, but more like tender all over. The other possibility is that he is just really tired and really really really wants to sleep and gets very grumpy when you try to wake him up which is really the only time we are handling him in order to reduce and avoid stress.

We have checked everywhere and can find no signs of a bite, tick or localized redness.

I did re-send a couple of pictures, but like you was without Internet for a couple hours. Radar shows it is a very long chain of thunderstorms, which is probably what is affecting both of us at the same time.

[jbtartell]

I have a plastic iglue made for hamster/ginny pigs for sam and she loves it. you can get one at any local pet store. I have it in the corner of her cage and the heating pad under her cage, with a baby blanket in the bottom of the cage the iglue sitting on the blanket. it give them the since of saftey and it is her bed. he would love it. if you try it let me know how he likes it.. you would be suprized.. He will get off the heat if he gets to hot. mine is on low. I also have cut up tshirts I give her a few peices of it to make her own bed and she will put it under her if she is to hot and cover up when she is cold. I think he would need the heat to sooth soreness and premote healing.:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Lugnutt I got the pictures of Rocky, posting them now.

Rocky's Belly
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/S40100181.jpg

Rocky's Butt
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/S40100151.jpg

[Lugnutt]

Rocky update...

Last night he continued to eat the nutrition shake from a syringe, but most times it was under protest. He does not seem to like the taste of the new shake any more or less than his old one. The biggest problem we have is getting them woke up enough to get him started and he will then continue to eat from the syringe until he reaches his limit or the intended dosage. (3-5 mL)

He does continue to drink if you you hold it in front of him, but he was not interested in going to get himself a drink. He will only drink 1-2 mL of water after his shake, but about an hour or so later they will drink another 10-15 mL. He has drank 45 mL since midnight. I will continue to use the rehydration tables provided by Nancy as per our discussion last night regarding the daily amount. I will not however let him drink more than 20 mL at one time without a break in between. (My logic for this is described on page 55 of the book which we have been discussing that Nancy was nice enough to post on the board. The book clearly states that the total daily water intake must be divided by the number of feedings. If anyone can provide any additional information, I would be eager to review it, but until then I must stick to my guns on this one)

The did urinate a couple more times last night, but nothing yet this morning. Each time it appears to be a normal amount which is between the size of a quarter and a $.50 piece. It continues to be clear to very pale yellow with no foul odor.

He has not pooped anymore since last night, but he is currently being stimulated to encourage bowel movements, as well as urination.

He continues to sleep whenever left undisturbed, but after enough stimulation, aggravation and harassment he will get up and move around a little bit on his own. As soon as you put him back in the cage, he heads directly for his box, it's himself comfortable and is out like a light until it's time for the next feeding or drinking session. His eyes are more alert than they have been (at least they are once he was fully awake) and there have down a couple times that his eyes were open and he was alert, but determined to be lazy and laid-back and quite content to just watch things as they happen.

[Lugnutt]

Thanks again

We just had him out of the cage for a little while and he was walking about three times, a distance of 3 to 5 feet at a time until he had to stop, lay down and rest. Some times his resting turned into taking a brief nap until we woke back up and kept stirring around. He would walk a few feet and then repeat this process. They did make one more normal size urine puddle and two smaller ones. We were able to catch the normal size puddle on a paper plate (the kind with the moisture proof coating) and they looked normal color. It is now in the process of drying in front of the air conditioner to determine whether there is any higher than average mineral content (this is the first one we have been able to catch since the beginning of his ailment)

We are continuing to feed and pushing water at the appropriate rates and intervals. He is accepting the water without too much fussing and arguing, but the nutrition shake takes a little bit more fighting and arguing. His balance while walking the short distances and laying flat down on his belly seems to be a little better, but he still cannot perform tail grooming without falling over.

I am curious as to whether everyone here feels this is improving at a rate at which it should be expected, or if it is moving slower than it should. Another person suggested that his condition may be connect with the West Nile virus. I am interested to hear other peoples opinions on this.

Thanks again to you all

[Lugnutt]

I'm afraid that Rocky is going back down hill again.

Last night he was a little lethargic, but you could wake him up to eat or drink. I attributed his sleepiness to the fact that it was nighttime and he would normally be asleep.

As today progressed, he seems as if he is less interested in moving around and more interested in sleeping. He will no longer take even a few steps and pretty much just lays down and goes to sleep wherever you put him. He is not walking out of his box to go pee and basically just lets it dribble out wherever he is laying.

He has lost all interest in any type of food and has very little interest in water. He was doing quite well up until about 1:30 PM, he had been on track with his rehydration schedule and was willing to be when encouraged, but if we rely solely on oral intake (which he had been drinking well for the last day and a half), he will not come anywhere near the 80 mL rehydration target minimum for today.

We really do not know how much longer we can continue down this roller coaster path. It seems like each high is a new high, but sadly so is each new low. I can only imagine what Rocky must be going through.

[SammysMom]

:grouphug Rocky:grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

has he had any nutrition? can he swallow anything, chew?
pecans, ensure? what has he had to eat?
:grouphug Have not been logged on, am not current on Rockys recent conditions. sending good vibes...
Eat something big boy:Love_Icon

[Lugnutt]

Jackie,

oh crap!

I did not mean to start a new thread, I got in too big of a hurry clicked before I read. Maybe someone can move this thread to my original...

seven-year-old gray...

thanks

[Lugnutt]

Rocky became more and more lethargic yesterday as the day progressed. We eventually gave up trying to get him to take any more of the nutrition shake and was only offering water. He was eagerly drinking water when offered and encouraged.

I stayed up with him all night observing every movement and every breath. By 11:00 PM he was able to move around his cage, but was clearly completely confused to the point that he did not know where he was and was crawling around aimlessly. We removed them from the cage and put him on the bed between my wife and I where I continued to watch a rest peacefully, with extremely shallow breathing, not expecting him to see the next hour. At 6:30 AM, he started moving around a little bit with his eyes open and standing upright on all 4 feet. He got repositioned in his little nest and went back to sleep. By 10:00 AM, he has become more active and is walking around his cage with the intention and climbing up on his small box.

We have removed all food from his cage, freely offered water, but is also going to his bottle to drink without encouragement. While he is active, we gave him one picky eaterfood block , which he took a couple sniffs and decided to walk away.

I am planning on continuing to withhold all food with the exception of picky eater blocks, but I'm unsure what to do about other foods, or how to best encourage him to eat the rodent block.

I look forward to any advice for suggestions.

[Jackie in Tampa]

please allow him to eat..he will not get well without nutrition..
if he can swallow...please give him a pecan half and an orange or tomaoto or banana
the body will not heal without nutrition..
he has had plenty to drink and is trying to maintain his own intake..
if he has no problem with urine, let's get this guy to feel good...let's feed him:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug
we will tweak what is ideal later...right now we need to give him avacodo with calcium on it...
come on people why are we not feeding himn, what am I missing..
I apologize as I have been extremely busy, but when I can I come see how he is ...and he wants foood, I can tell.:flash3 :tilt :rolleyes:
come on Rocky ...
I am sooo falling in love and want to see you feeling better..
I have a 10 y/o named Rocky..love of my life...
he too has some elderly issues going on, but he's happy when he's up...:thumbsup
I love that you two cuddled with him...:grouphug :thumbsup :) :Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

btw, my Rockys butt and belly are identical...they are older lazier males...
the bald tail patch is always around rut time..
for many years...I have asked alot of vets etc..no one can explain, so I just take it as the way it is...

[Nancy in New York]

Rocky became more and more lethargic yesterday as the day progressed. We eventually gave up trying to get him to take any more of the nutrition shake and was only offering water. He was eagerly drinking water when offered and encouraged.

I stayed up with him all night observing every movement and every breath. By 11:00 PM he was able to move around his cage, but was clearly completely confused to the point that he did not know where he was and was crawling around aimlessly. We removed them from the cage and put him on the bed between my wife and I where I continued to watch a rest peacefully, with extremely shallow breathing, not expecting him to see the next hour. At 6:30 AM, he started moving around a little bit with his eyes open and standing upright on all 4 feet. He got repositioned in his little nest and went back to sleep. By 10:00 AM, he has become more active and is walking around his cage with the intention and climbing up on his small box.

We have removed all food from his cage, freely offered water, but is also going to his bottle to drink without encouragement. While he is active, we gave him one picky eaterfood block , which he took a couple sniffs and decided to walk away.

I am planning on continuing to withhold all food with the exception of picky eater blocks, but I'm unsure what to do about other foods, or how to best encourage him to eat the rodent block.

I look forward to any advice for suggestions.


OK at this point, this is really a mystery. BUT we do need to get some nutrition into him. What some do with squirrels that aren't too keen on eating is to make up these little bite sized balls. Do you have Fox Valley formula?
If so, take just a couple of the blocks and pulverize them in a food processor, measure out what you have, say if it's 1/4 cup....then add 1/4 DRY Fox Valley, and 1/4 cup of nuts almonds, pecans, hazlenuts but back into the food processor and pulverize again. Take out the dry ingredients and add, just a small touch of applesauce (baby) and roll this into a chickpea sized shape ball and refrigerate for a couple of hours. Try that. IF he likes it we will cut back on the nuts for the next batch.

Edit: I did not see Jackie's post....I totally agree, at this point give him anything that he wants, with the exception of unlimited nuts, corn and the bad stuff.

[Lugnutt]

Just got internet back...

Rocky has not touched his picky eater block.

I have no pecans (everything but), so giving a 1/2 almond and 1/2" slice of bananna.

Sending daughter to store for pecans.

he is gobbling tomato (his favorite)

[Nancy in New York]

Just got internet back...

Rocky has not touched his picky eater block.

I have no pecans (everything but), so giving a 1/2 almond and 1/2" slice of bananna.

Sending daughter to store for pecans.

he is gobbling tomato (his favorite)
Do you have Fox Valley?

[Lugnutt]

No fox valley.

Am also very concerned that everytime he gets the yogurt/goat milk, or the Henry's nutrition shake, he gets worse. Then when we can't get him to eat any more, we stop that, but can continue water and he gets better... everytime!

Very frustrating!

[Lugnutt]

He is eating in short spurts and resting or napping in between. ate about 1/2 grape tomatoe and 1/2 almond and a few nibbles of banana. crawled into box and looking stoned, but not sleeping (he has been kind of like this all day)

[Nancy in New York]

No fox valley.

Am also very concerned that everytime he gets the yogurt/goat milk, or the Henry's nutrition shake, he gets worse. Then when we can't get him to eat any more, we stop that, but can continue water and he gets better... everytime!

Very frustrating!

PM me your address and I will get some FV in the mail tomorrow if you want.
If he is getting worse with that, I would discontinue....there may be more going on with him.
I gave you a list of members in the Maryland area....can you contact any of them and see if they have a vet. How long can he continue like this without seeing an expert....:dono

[Lugnutt]

Nancy,
PM sent. While I'm thinking of it, I already received the Henry's protein, vitaming & calcium, but they caused same adverse reaction as other shake things.

He is not getting worse with the nut, tomato and banana, but point made. He has shredded that block, but really eating it like he should. Then again, he has only bothered to eat the 1/2 almond and 1/2 grape tomato, but just started nibbling tomato again.

I will be contact with them to find a vet soon. The only reason I stopped persuing that was when Rocky became too sick to travel.

[Nancy in New York]

Sorry that I am just posting this now....I never checked my email....:shakehead

Anyway Lugnutt also included this note, which I will share here, per his request if I thought it may help in his diagnosis.

Here is the other picture of Rocky's butt. This one shows a lot more of the swelling that I was concerned about. It travels from the bulges visible in this picture forward and down beside his testicles, into his legs. It seems that it has gone down quite a bit, but I would still like to know what it was/is.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/S40100161.jpg

[CritterMom]

Nancy, is this the same thing that Squirrely Steve sees every year with Chuck? This is an older squirrel and it is spring...??

I think that Steve has some good pics of Chuck's butt on his thread - have to scroll back a bit, but it happened again last spring...

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy, is this the same thing that Squirrely Steve sees every year with Chuck? This is an older squirrel and it is spring...??

I think that Steve has some good pics of Chuck's butt on his thread - have to scroll back a bit, but it happened again last spring...


Looks like it CritterMom, thank you.
Lugnutt Scroll through this thread and you will see similiar pictures of one of our members little squirrel's that had a similar problem.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22587&page=11&highlight=Squirrelly+Steve

[CritterMom]

Looks like it CritterMom, thank you.
Lugnutt Scroll through this thread and you will see similiar pictures of one of our members little squirrel's that had a similar problem.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22587&page=11&highlight=Squirrelly+Steve

And it isn't really a problem - normal for older boys. You just need to make sure the glands don't swell enough to impact his pooping...

[Lugnutt]

WOW, WHERE DID THE TIME GO?!

I have just spent the last 4 1/2 hours reading the thread about Chuck and Steve. The swelling with Rocky looks almost identical to Chuck's, with the exception that Rocky's has a little bit of a separation in the middle, as opposed to being more rounded.

I did not see anything posted as to what has happened since the healing of the surgery. Was it not necessary to remove both glands?

Rocky's condition today remained steady. But his appetite has not returned as much as I think it should. He has some neat and approximately 1/4 of one block (plain) and will not touch them after that. I have not given him any type of nutrition shake, because it has been apparent that whatever he does have the nutrition/calcium shake he returns to the lethargic, near comatose state.

What I have done today was to somewhat follow the recipe above, but without the baby food applesauce. I broke up one Henry's block and put in my coffee grinder with an equal amount of almond slivers. Ran the grinder until I had a semi moist powder fine mass. We took that "pulp" and found that we could squeeze it together and it would stick quite well and to a small piece about the size of a pea. He did eat three of those, but would not eat any more. I did give him a small piece of tomato, a small piece of broccoli, and a small piece of kale which he did eat over the next few hours. He was not interested in any banana or hazelnuts (two other foods that he likes), which tells me his tummy must have been full, were very upset. He has been drinking some, but not quite as much as I would like to see him drink. We have noticed that if you hold the bottle directly in front of him, he will drink a normal long drink (about 10 mL) but he doesn't bother going to go get it himself.

My wife will be home in the next few minutes and she will get him to move around and try to stimulate both bladder and bowels. (Very little of either today)

Feeling much more hopeful now.

[Lugnutt]

And it isn't really a problem - normal for older boys. You just need to make sure the glands don't swell enough to impact his pooping...


I think that may very well been what happened. And of course the dehydration would have worsened the process.

[Lugnutt]

I have a couple of questions about what to do next with Rocky...

1. Should I attempt to get extra calcium into Rocky? He is eating very little of the Henry's blocks and if he was suffering from MBD, am I not correct in saying that he needs far more calcium than is found in the blocks (especially if he is eating very few)?

2. How can I incorporate more calcium into his diet if he will not eat enough of the blocks? Every time that I tried to feed him the homemade nutrition shake, or the nutrition shake from Henry's pets, he gets worse. Could it possibly be the yogurt? We have used several brands of yogurt, but have similar results. Any suggestions on why he gets worse on what everyone considers "treatment". I was told by one vet that their maximum intake of calcium would be approximately 50 mg.

3. I am still working on getting Rocky to a vet, but feel that I have to time to be sure that I choose the right one as long as he continues to improve. I would really like to have as much information as possible when we see the vet, so that everything can be as accurate as possible.

Thank you for the assistance.

[Nancy in New York]

I have a couple of questions about what to do next with Rocky...

1. Should I attempt to get extra calcium into Rocky? He is eating very little of the Henry's blocks and if he was suffering from MBD, am I not correct in saying that he needs far more calcium than is found in the blocks (especially if he is eating very few)?

2. How can I incorporate more calcium into his diet if he will not eat enough of the blocks? Every time that I tried to feed him the homemade nutrition shake, or the nutrition shake from Henry's pets, he gets worse. Could it possibly be the yogurt? We have used several brands of yogurt, but have similar results. Any suggestions on why he gets worse on what everyone considers "treatment". I was told by one vet that their maximum intake of calcium would be approximately 50 mg.

3. I am still working on getting Rocky to a vet, but feel that I have to time to be sure that I choose the right one as long as he continues to improve. I would really like to have as much information as possible when we see the vet, so that everything can be as accurate as possible.

Thank you for the assistance.

To me, your first priority would be to find a vet asap. If this turns bad really fast, it will be too late. Rocky has not been well for a while. He gets a tiny bit better and then back slides. Squirrels are good at masking their pain.
I do hope that you have contacted some of the people that I suggested. If they recommend someone, they are good then. It's very difficult to find a vet that sees squirrels, or any wildlife. Some will see them, but they don't know the first thing about squirrels.
I told you too that I have an excellent vet. I know that I am far from you, I am just saying it is an option. And by the time you pick one, you may also have to wait until they have an opening for an appointment.
You will never know if you chose the right one, unless they fix your boy, then it was the right choice. All you have is others who do have vets and if they recommend them. I have one that I will never recommend, and I have another that I think walks on water.

[Lugnutt]

I'm sorry Nancy I should've been worked clear...

I have been in contact with two, and can see one by Wednesday, but feel little apprehensive because of the wording during discussion (seemed not pet frindly, only mildly tolerable), just something in the gut feeling that I cannot describe any better than this. Anyway, emergency is also an option with him, so I figure there is no harm in looking while I am waiting anyway.

It is good advice though, it is just that I realized I was not clear and I didn't want anyone think I was just sitting back waiting for the other shoe to drop!

[jbtartell]

I have a vet that walks on water too, look how much beter sam is.. and I had reservations at first but now I am soo glad I chose him. and she has seen 3. he is the one I chose her to see.:wahoo

[Nancy in New York]

I'm sorry Nancy I should've been worked clear...

I have been in contact with two, and can see one by Wednesday, but feel little apprehensive because of the wording during discussion (seemed not pet frindly, only mildly tolerable), just something in the gut feeling that I cannot describe any better than this. Anyway, emergency is also an option with him, so I figure there is no harm in looking while I am waiting anyway.

It is good advice though, it is just that I realized I was not clear and I didn't want anyone think I was just sitting back waiting for the other shoe to drop!

Oh God....that isn't good.
You need one that you feel comfortable with. AND one that is known by at least one of our members, who can vouch for him/her....:dono

[astra]

Oh God....that isn't good.
You need one that you feel comfortable with. AND one that is known by at least one of our members, who can vouch for him/her....:dono
:goodpost

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Lugnutt
Did you get the FoxVally I mailed out to you on Thursday? It should have been their on Monday!:dono :thinking (It was mailed Priority mail which was 3 day delivery.)
It does not have a tracking number. :shakehead Nancy Did you already mail some?? I can put some more in the mail again if you have not mailed any out. Nancy Let me know.
I was wondering with all the Water drinking and Sleeping has Any one thought of Diabetes??? Over weight People are Prone to it. I know if feed to much Sugary foods or to much Fruit Squirrels Can Become Diabetic.
I just wonted to throw Idea out their for Nancy and all to consider.
I will Rocky and all in my Prayers. Good Luck
CM918

[Nancy in New York]

:wave123 Hi Lugnutt
Did you get the FoxVally I mailed out to you on Thursday? It should have been their on Monday!:dono :thinking (It was mailed Priority mail which was 3 day delivery.)
It does not have a tracking number. :shakehead Nancy Did you already mail some?? I can put some more in the mail again if you have not mailed any out. Nancy Let me know.
I was wondering with all the Water drinking and Sleeping has Any one thought of Diabetes??? Over weight People are Prone to it. I know if feed to much Sugary foods or to much Fruit Squirrels Can Become Diabetic.
I just wonted to throw Idea out their for Nancy and all to consider.
I will Rocky and all in my Prayers. Good Luck
CM918



Yup, I mailed out the Fox Valley yesterday.:thumbsup

[Lugnutt]

Rocky back to 100%? Maybe? Hoping!!!

I have been amazed at the change in Rocky's condition over the past 72 hours. Even more amazed during the last 24 hours!

Rocky spent all morning in his box scratching and thumping around. I was here by myself and could not get to him, but I was terrified that he started having those little seizures again. When his mommy came home around 10:30 AM, she immediately went to check on him, but when he heard her voice, he decided he was going to come see her first. When we first saw him, we could not believe how great he looked! He came out completely groomed, looking like his bright eyed and bushy tailed self! He started climbing all over the inside of his cage and really wanted out. As soon as she opened the door, he came running out climbing all over her, running and climbing over the bed and pooping everywhere! Next he stopped and took a good long pee... yes, on the bed (but we don't mind that right now). After about 10 minutes of him exploring, removing dust bunnies from under the furniture etc. she put him back in the cage.

Mommy made him some more "bribery blocks" (our term for a transition recipe to get him moved over to the Henry's blocks) and got him to nibble a little bit of one of them were down each over to the call eval changed my mind from this place for him to hold it in my mind. She got him out and played for another little while before she had to go back to work and he seemed like his old self again. The only thing that was any different is that he was pooping everywhere!

When his mommy left for work, he had still not eat any of the "bribery blocks" to speak of, so she gave him a small piece of tomato and a piece of kale, which he gobbled up quickly. She put three bribery blocks in his cage, each one being a different recipe and visually identifiable from each other. Each one has 50-50 mixture of Henry's blocks and a type of nut, with various combinations of binding agents. When my daughter returned, one of the primary box was missing. Which one? Well, it was the one we made as a last ditch effort... bound together with... wait for it... peanut butter! (Rocky hates peanut butter). GO FIGURE! WHO WOULD'VE THUNK IT!

He has gone back into its box and is taking his typical afternoon nap, but he has been coming out to get plenty of drinks of water, so he's keeping himself well hydrated. My hope that assumption is that he will wake up when his mommy comes home and start running around pooping everywhere. I will post another follow-up note this evening to let everyone know how he is doing.

I am so glad that I have all of you here for all of the help you have been able to provide. I do not think Rocky would be here if it wasn't for you guys.

[Nancy in New York]

:wahoo Well this is the best news since you started posting.
I'm just thrilled that Rocky is acting like his old self again....
just make sure to continue to take baby steps with him and don't let him overdo "too" much. :rotfl
Not sure how you can keep a good squirrel down, or even if you would want too.
I guess I mean that I wouldn't encourage tons of play time where he is ramming around too much right now.
They will let us know when they don't feel well, and that's what he did....he let you know.

[Lugnutt]

:wave123 Hi Lugnutt
Did you get the FoxVally I mailed out to you on Thursday? It should have been their on Monday!:dono :thinking (It was mailed Priority mail which was 3 day delivery.)
It does not have a tracking number. :shakehead Nancy Did you already mail some?? I can put some more in the mail again if you have not mailed any out. Nancy Let me know.
I was wondering with all the Water drinking and Sleeping has Any one thought of Diabetes??? Over weight People are Prone to it. I know if feed to much Sugary foods or to much Fruit Squirrels Can Become Diabetic.
I just wonted to throw Idea out their for Nancy and all to consider.
I will Rocky and all in my Prayers. Good Luck
CM918


thank you for the follow-up, because frankly I forgot that you were sending any. I feel really embarrassed about this, but Thursday was the worst day and night of this entire ordeal! Thursday was the night that I laid there all night watching shallow breathing not expecting him to see the next hour. I thought all hope was lost and honestly do not care about keeping track of the different messages from all of the people out there. But to answer your question, I have NOT received any package yet. At least now I know to keep a lookout for it and I will let you know if and when it arrives.

We realize that we may still have a long and difficult road ahead, so I will gladly accept a selfless gift's and will be incorporating them into Rocky's care as well as anything that may arise in the future.

As for the diabetes, yes it has been mentioned before, but I refuse to so much as consider the idea, or discuss anything of it. I live by the rule that in order to survive everything requires energy, and this is only one of the many things in the world that I refuse to feed energy in any way. But thank you for the concern and well-meaning input.

[Lugnutt]

:wahoo Well this is the best news since you started posting.
I'm just thrilled that Rocky is acting like his old self again....
just make sure to continue to take baby steps with him and don't let him overdo "too" much. :rotfl
Not sure how you can keep a good squirrel down, or even if you would want too.
I guess I mean that I wouldn't encourage tons of play time where he is ramming around too much right now.
They will let us know when they don't feel well, and that's what he did....he let you know.

yes, we are very optimistic about this now! I do know one thing, I keep winding up with some very strong and courageous animals in my life. Let me quickly tell you what I mean...

Rocky was supposed to be a rehab been released squirrel. While we where acclimating to outside temperatures without an air conditioner, he decided to go exploring and did not come home that evening. We held up hope and sent positive energies but did not want to interfere with the course of nature. Three days later, he came home beaten, battered and bloody! He climbed up on my shoulder and waited for me to take him home. As soon as we came in the door, he took off for the dog's bowl, ate several pieces of dog food and started looking for his house. My wife cleaned his wounds and treated the bites and scratches with various antibiotics, along with verbal guidance from a friendly vet. (Of course she could not see him, only offer advice and direct us toward an area rehabilitator).

After meeting the rehabilitator, my wife would have no parts of that and decided to continue the matters in her own way. We kept Rocky quarantined for six months. When we tried to release him the following spring, he was too spoiled and/or too scared to be released. It did not matter how long he left them out there, he would continue to try to get in the door or the window even while three Hawks were circling. Obviously we would not let this happen and we saw no other choice but to adopt.

Later in the spring, we were talking to a neighbor who was the witness of Rocky's brawl... it was with his cat. Yes, Rocky survived a cat bite 6 1/2 years ago. I would say he has a good squirrel!

[Lugnutt]

Oh, I almost forgot, but yes we will certainly be taking it easy for quite a while until we are certain he is back to 100%

I am also glad that I have found a rodent block that he might be able to tolerate. We just have to convince them that life really is worth living without junk food. :-)

[Mrs Skul]

:thumbsup :grouphug :wahoo

[Lugnutt]

Rocky has a clean bill of health!

I apologize for not posting any information last night, or earlier today but we have had two very grueling days of running around like crazy!

Rocky was seen by a rehabber and was given a clean bill of health, but left us with a riddle and that is (even with his low caloric and nutritional intake) there is no sign of any type of ailment, including MBD or infected glands!? There is noticeable loss of muscle mass and his coat is still looking a little shabby, but otherwise, looks great. The only other symptom that he seems to be exhibiting is when you let him out to play, this energy level only lasts about 15 minutes before he gets tired and wants to go back to bed. He has lost some weight is looking a little thin (still a ridiculously picky eater and not happy about "bribery blocks"). Until he starts eating better, we are to continue with what we are doing and we are to supplement with the formula that we received from Nancy in New York yesterday. (HURRAH FOR NANCY!) She feels that within the next month, he should return to his previous weight and replace all lost muscle mass and energy level etc.

After a long discussion with her, she has no clue (including diabetes) as to what could have caused his recent episode. We determined that the best course of action was to thoroughly clean and disinfect his cage, dispose of all bedding, as well as clean and disinfect any areas that he frequents and was known to be in recently. She did not however have any answers as to how to treat his outside (160 ft.²) caged area. This area includes things like climbing ropes, swings, swinging bridges, ladders, etc. as well as, logs (dead) recently cut limbs and branches and even one live small tree and of course grass and weeds.

We routinely inspect the outside area for anything that is unhealthy for squirrels and pull up any plants that may have taken root before we noticed it. Occasionally we find typical "outside" bugs but nothing out of the ordinary like venomous spiders or anything like that.

So with the above information, does anyone have any new ideas?

Any ideas as to how to "sanitize" his outside area?

We are so glad that Rocky was able to pull through this nightmare and we do not want to risk the possibility of that starting over again (I do not think any of us could handle a second round of that!)

[alana1957]

PLEASE HELP....found our lil squirrel 4 days ago...was doing good..eating great...had always used and began him on Esbilac...Now constipated and grunting while breathing...DID not aspirate...I have raised 7 other baby squirrels and have never had this problem...thought it was pneumonia but went searching and not think its constipation from esbilac....I need to find out a way to help hom poop....I felt around and he is hard around his rectum...hes very uncomfortable....PLEASE suggest something to give him FAST relief...

[CritterMom]

First, do you know his age?

Try this to begin with - fill a bowl with warm water deep enough to submerge the baby to about the armpits. You want the temp right about where you would heat formula - 105 or so. Support him in the water and gently stroke downward on his tummy. The warm water relaxes the muscles and sometimes it will help them go.

A few drops of mineral oil is a laxative.

Give him hydration ONLYfor a while, and plenty of it.

Here is what happened: Esbilac has changes it's manufacturing process and the powder is VERY hard to dissolve. It has to sit after mixing for many hours, get mixed again, etc... He is full of esbilac powder sludge and WATER is the answer. You can put a teaspoon of sugar in a cup of water and the slight sweetness will make it more agreeable.

You must stop using the esbilac. Since this happened, many have changed to a lovely formula made for SQUIRRELS by Fox Valley. It can be purchased from www.foxvalleynutrition.com and www.henryspets.com.

Until you get it, please substitute this:

3 parts goats milk*
1 part full fat vanilla yogurt (Stoneyfield Yobaby is good)
1 part heavy whipping cream

*Measurement for fresh goats milk only - if you get canned or dried, mix with water according to package directions, THEN use in this recipe.

[farrelli]

Alana has a new thread for this here:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40752