found an injured adult male squirrel

[virginia_arce2280]

My husband who is a vet tech found an injured possibly adult male squirrel. We already have 3 Eastern grey squirrels that we have raised from infancy; 2 females and a male, but have never dealt with one that was injured. I though he was an adult, but he looks like a young fox squirrel, and was hit by a car. my husband said his vitals are good and he has good reflexes so far. Doesn't know about head trauma yet. He was bleeding from his mouth and nose. We cleaned him up and put him with some baby receiving blankets and in a small dog carrier in a dark cool room. Now we're not sure what to do. We did notice that he has fleas that will have to be dealt with later if he survives in this crucial time.
He is kind of in a shock state, sort of stunned and drowsy acting. Please we need some advice as to what to do now.
I'll try to get a picture of him so I can post it.
thanks you guys!
Virginia

[Nancy in New York]

My husband who is a vet tech found an injured possibly adult male squirrel. We already have 3 Eastern grey squirrels that we have raised from infancy; 2 females and a male, but have never dealt with one that was injured. I though he was an adult, but he looks like a young fox squirrel, and was hit by a car. my husband said his vitals are good and he has good reflexes so far. Doesn't know about head trauma yet. He was bleeding from his mouth and nose. We cleaned him up and put him with some baby receiving blankets and in a small dog carrier in a dark cool room. Now we're not sure what to do. We did notice that he has fleas that will have to be dealt with later if he survives in this crucial time.
He is kind of in a shock state, sort of stunned and drowsy acting. Please we need some advice as to what to do now.
I'll try to get a picture of him so I can post it.
thanks you guys!
Virginia


Don't put him in a cool place especially if he is shocky.
I will pm you some stuff in a minute.:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Your husband is a vet tech? Does the vet he works with ever treat squirrels?
The first rule of thumb, warm, dark, quiet.
If you have a heating pad, put it on LOW and half under the conatiner that you have him in. Make sure that he can crawl to a place that is cool if he doesn't like the heat, that's why you put it only under half.

[virginia_arce2280]

:soapbox
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[virginia_arce2280]

Hi Nancy, thanks for your reply.
He doesn't work for a vet anymore, but that's what his degree is in. And the vet he used to work for doesn't do much about the wild animals

[Nancy in New York]

OK he looks quite young yet. Warm dark quiet....and nothing to disturb him.
Put some fleece or some other material that he can't catch his little nails on,
in a chew proof container.
I will look for help for you. Where are you located, I mean which large city?

[Nancy in New York]

Actually, I'm not sure that we will need to look for help for you, if you have the ability to care for him for a while.
Watch for any head drift or seizuring, that would be a sign of head trauma. Also if you can inspect his teeth to make sure that they weren't knocked out, that would be great.
Have you handled squirrels before?
Does he appear in pain?
You can give him infant ibuprofen I can dose it for you. Do you have a scale that you could weigh him on?

[virginia_arce2280]

I do have children's ibuprofen, and I do have a scale. He has all of his teeth, and I'll try to see if I can hold him. So far, my husband has been the one to hold him. (I think I might put on gloves ;)
He's hanging his head low in the corner of the carrier and he is walking a bit, but he goes back to the corner after a bit and hangs his head again.
And we are capable of caring for him. The closest rehabber is an hour away and I was supposed to get trained last year, but no one ever got back with me after several attempts at leaving messages, so I had to wing it with the other squirrels and the wonderful people at the squirrel board.
Virginia

[Nancy in New York]

I sent you the dosing chart. If you can get a weight on him that's great. Remember the ibuprofen doseage is the second one down on the chart...:thumbsup The ibuprofen that you want is INFANT not children's.:) Though I do recall CritterMom saying that you could use that, but I forgot the doseage for that....:thinking

[jo_schmoe]

Poor little guy!!!! He just looks like hes had the tar beat outta him!!!
My advice....listen to Nancy....:thumbsup
The heat is very important right now...not only will it calm him....but his body is working very hard to heal itself right now...and doesn't need the added stress of staying warm. Also...the extra heat will help soothe his muscles....he's GOT to be sooooo sore!!!
If it were me....I'd keep the handling down to an minimum...and when you do have to handle him....make sure you wrap him to keep his movements at a minimum. Being hit by a car.....you never know what sort of damage there is....and too much movement can do further damage.
:Love_Icon little gray:Love_Icon

[virginia_arce2280]

I'll get his weight and go by the dosing. Thanks so much. He did swallow a few drops of pedialyte, but his tongue is swollen and his head is twitching from side to side, so there looks to be some head trauma.
thankso much for your help and I'll keep you informed.
I'm trying to keep him warm, but he moves away from the rice buddy and balls up with his head tucked under him. and he weighs 165 grams.

[jo_schmoe]

I'll get his weight and go by the dosing. Thanks so much. He did swallow a few drops of pedialyte, but his tongue is swollen and his head is twitching from side to side, so there looks to be some head trauma.
thankso much for your help and I'll keep you informed.
I'm trying to keep him warm, but he moves away from the rice buddy and balls up with his head tucked under him. and he weighs 165 grams.
Do you have a heating pad?? If so...put it on low....and place it under the container...halfway on...halfway off. The mass of the sock buddy might be scaring him...his vision may be off due to the knock in the head....and being an older baby...he has learned more fear. Try the heating pad....and see if he still moves off the heat.
Head trauma is way outta my league....I do know that he's going to need meds.....just not sure the type or dosage. Also....you have got to try more fluids....the pedialite is a good start....
If his tongue is swollen....he may need to be sub qd. Fortunately your husband being a vet tech should know how.....:thumbsup

[stepnstone]

Bless you for taking care of this poor little boy. :grouphug
I see Nancy has this covered and your in good hands, prayers for a good outcome and a speedy recovery.

[CritterMom]

I sent you the dosing chart. If you can get a weight on him that's great. Remember the ibuprofen doseage is the second one down on the chart...:thumbsup The ibuprofen that you want is INFANT not children's.:) Though I do recall CritterMom saying that you could use that, but I forgot the doseage for that....:thinking


Nancy, the infant is twice as strong as the childrens, so double the doses you have for the infant ibuprophen.

[virginia_arce2280]

I just found our heating pad! :thumbsup
And yes, he likes it and is staying in the corner where it's the warmest. He even got up under the blanket. I've turned the house thermostat up to 80, (we're here in Florida so it will warm up quick) so the air is not blowing so much but we're also not suffocating in the house.
He is still twitching and sneezing, (he had blood in his nose when we got him and we cleaned him up the best we could)
I'm not sure if I should try to medicate him now, or just leave him alone for a little bit because I had to handle him to clean him and assess the damage, then again to hydrate him, and again to weigh him, so maybe I could wait on the ibuprofen?
I'm going to give this my best shot, with God on my side, to try to help out one of his little creatures. Any more advice, is more than welcome. I am so thankful to have the squirrel board available!
:thankyou
also, as I'm writing this, he started to move around the carrier and came to the front away from the heat and started making a high pitch squeal and then went back to the heat again.

[jo_schmoe]

I just found our heating pad! :thumbsup
And yes, he likes it and is staying in the corner where it's the warmest. He even got up under the blanket. I've turned the house thermostat up to 80, (we're here in Florida so it will warm up quick) so the air is not blowing so much but we're also not suffocating in the house.
He is still twitching and sneezing, (he had blood in his nose when we got him and we cleaned him up the best we could)
I'm not sure if I should try to medicate him now, or just leave him alone for a little bit because I had to handle him to clean him and assess the damage, then again to hydrate him, and again to weigh him, so maybe I could wait on the ibuprofen?
I'm going to give this my best shot, with God on my side, to try to help out one of his little creatures. Any more advice, is more than welcome. I am so thankful to have the squirrel board available!
:thankyou
also, as I'm writing this, he started to move around the carrier and came to the front away from the heat and started making a high pitch squeal and then went back to the heat again.
Good Job!!!!! The squeek.....I do believe thats squirrel.....for THANKS!!!! LOL.
I'd give him a minute to enjoy the warmth and gain some strength....maybe try in 30 mins or so.....give those muscles a chance to loosen up. Keep talking to him in a soft voice when you handle him....believe it or not its very soothing....and in my experience....helps them heal. Anything to keep him calm....:Love_Icon

[stepnstone]

I would dose the pain med and then let him rest, it will bring him some more comfort not having to deal with the pain he has to be in.

[virginia_arce2280]

Great news!:wott
I gave him some ibuprofen and then some more pedialyte and he perked up and started sucking on the dropper and when I took it away to give more, he started squirming and calmed down when I gave him more.
Now, how much pedialyte do I give before I start giving him fox valley? Is it like a baby, that I have to rehydrate for several hours before starting any formula?
I really don't know what kind of squirrel he is. We live in North Florida. And he doesn't look like our eastern gray squirrels that we already have and he seems very young, but he's the size of our full grown female eastern gray squirrel.
And his fur is extremely thick and longer than the gray squirrels.:thinking

[CritterMom]

I would continue to rehydrate him for several hours before you start with the formula. He is a little eastern gray, but a young one - a teen I think.

[jo_schmoe]

You are doing SUCH a great job!!! :thumbsup
He looks like a gray to me...:peace
I'd keep him on the pedialite for a little bit....at least the next few hours. You want to make sure his blood sugars are evened out before you offer formula....shock alone can cause any mammal to crash....

[Nancy in New York]

Wonderful update and great advice. You are doing amazing...thank you for helping this little one...:grouphug

[Nutty's Mama]

I'm sending warm healing thoughts to your little one. Everyone here will guide you. You are in great hands here. :grouphug

[jo_schmoe]

Whoops....I forgot to ask you earlier....the heating pad...does it have an auto shut off??
Is he still enjoying the heat?? I just cant keep this guy outta my head!!! I love him already!
Does he have a name yet?

[Nancy in New York]

Does he have a name yet?

Are you thinking something along the lines of.........Joe....:poke :D

[lilidukes]

I don't use heat with head trauma. Can cause excess swelling.

[virginia_arce2280]

Whoops....I forgot to ask you earlier....the heating pad...does it have an auto shut off??
Is he still enjoying the heat?? I just cant keep this guy outta my head!!! I love him already!
Does he have a name yet?
No the heating pad does not have an auto shut-off, but it doesn't get very hot either and it's only under half of the carrier, and he does seem to like it. He's had pedialyte now 3 times in the 4 1/2 hours that we've had him and everytime he seems to be more alert. This last time, he didn't want to let go of me and fell asleep right in my arms and when I put him in the carrier, he woke up and started jumping all over the carrier and climbing everywhere, so I got him back out and gave him a little more fluid and wrapped him in a blanket and he fell back asleep. He is active for a minute or so and then stops in the middle of everything and dozes off, but I'm sure that's from the trauma. I am just so glad you guys are taking the time to help me out here. I am a mama to 4 kids and we homeschool and this is just a great experience for us.:jump
We're still working on a name and since our adult female gray squirrel (she's 8 months old) is named Carmelita (brownie in Spanish), we may name him Caramelo, (candy in spanish-it's a boys name in spanish) We are a Spanish, English, Spanglish speaking family. Our other 2 who are 12 weeks are named Federico and Mamota.:rotfl I think their silly but that's cubans for ya!:)

[virginia_arce2280]

I don't use heat with head trauma. Can cause excess swelling.
Even if he seems to be calmer with the heat? The heat, (it is a low heat)
seemed to help him when I used it.
I'll keep an eye on him.
Also, he's got real puffy cheeks. Could that be swelling, or is that normal in some squirrels. My others don't have it. I'll have to post a picture with all of them for comparison.
:thankyou

[Nancy in New York]

I'm glad that he is so receptive to the hydration. Poor baby.

I hear ya lilidukes, about the heating pad....I thought since their was shock involved too, which there usually is, come to think of it...treat for the shock. Perhaps turn the heat down in the house...and and and....suggestions?
Should the use of the heating pad be continued if there is suspected head trauma?

[Nancy in New York]

Even if he seems to be calmer with the heat? The heat, (it is a low heat)
seemed to help him when I used it.
I'll keep an eye on him.
Also, he's got real puffy cheeks. Could that be swelling, or is that normal in some squirrels. My others don't have it. I'll have to post a picture with all of them for comparison.
:thankyou

Just try not to handle him too much with getting more pictures, I really believe that the first 24-48 hours are so critical for his recovery. The less stress the better.:thumbsup
In the first couple of pictures that were posted, you can see swelling on his right cheek, so that may account for what you are seeing, and perhaps the left is also swelling up some.

edit: Homeschooling your children shows such commitment.
However, with this little one right now, he really is critical,
so perhaps when he is on the road to recover would be a better time
for the kids to be involved with this experience. Unless you simply mean that
you are telling them about it. :)

[virginia_arce2280]

The kids don't handle him, they just watch what I do and learn about the where the injuries are and the risks and they don't bother him and he's in a room by himself away from all of their hustle and bustle. And they've been looking at all the comments and help hear on the forum.
I am only handling him to rehydrate him. Also, how often should I be rehydrating. (so I won't take anymore until he's more stable) I have been rehydrating about every hour, as much as he'll take, which the first time was just a few drops from the dropper and the last time was about 3 mls. should it be more or more often?

[jo_schmoe]

I'm glad that he is so receptive to the hydration. Poor baby.

I hear ya lilidukes, about the heating pad....I thought since their was shock involved too, which there usually is, come to think of it...treat for the shock. Perhaps turn the heat down in the house...and and and....suggestions?
Should the use of the heating pad be continued if there is suspected head trauma?
The heat is essential in my opinion....read this. Not only will it keep him out of shock....but it appears it actually helps HT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7976614

[Nancy in New York]

The heat is essential in my opinion....read this. Not only will it keep him out of shock....but it appears it actually helps HT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7976614

Thank you jo_schmoe. Very interesting. See when they do new studies, you come up with new protocols.

I even consulted with a book I have prior to reading what you posted....and they say for treatment of head trauma:

"Treat for Shock (Dark, Warm, Quiet) Maintain body temperature at normal or slightly less than normal rather than having the temperatures too high."
Is that a little conflicting right in this one sentence...:tilt

[virginia_arce2280]

He's starting to climb on the sides of carrier. Should I just take the heating pad away now? It's 80 degrees in the house and he's got 2 flannel receiving blankets in his carrier.

[jo_schmoe]

He's starting to climb on the sides of carrier. Should I just take the heating pad away now? It's 80 degrees in the house and he's got 2 flannel receiving blankets in his carrier.
yep...try turning it off and see what happens....

[Nancy in New York]

yep...try turning it off and see what happens....

Just posted and deleted....:D

[jo_schmoe]

how's he doing? :tilt

[virginia_arce2280]

OKay, heat's been off for hour and 1/2. We've had the little guy, (his name is official; Caramelo) for 7 hours now and he's had 6 hydration treatments. What should be the plan for the night. How often should I be up with him?

[jo_schmoe]

Id put the heat on at night....but check to make sure he isnt getting too warm.
I suppose you would want get up often through the night to check him....and maybe offer fluids once or twice during the night. Let him rest as much as possible....squirrels have amazing recuperative powers...but it sure takes a lot out of them.
What formula do you have?

[CritterMom]

Does he seem dehydrated still? If not, he might appreciate some real food - might want to do the FV (didn't I read that you have Fox Valley) at 3:1 at first, then strengthen it to the 2:1 if that goes well. You can always give additional hydration drinks in between feedings...but getting some nutrition and a nice, warm, quiet place to sleep will probably be greatly appreciated.

[virginia_arce2280]

I have fox valley 32/40
Can I go ahead and give him formula?
He's wide awake now and going all over the carrier squealing

[virginia_arce2280]

Okay, I tried the formula and he was was taking it very readily and all of a sudden in the middle of sucking on the syringe, he just vomited everything back up. It was pure milk, no blood or mucous or anything. I was just giving him what he wanted, but maybe he had too much too soon? he had taken in about 5 mls when he vomited, and then he just fell asleep and he's acting tired again.:dono

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

maybe drank too much too fast, slow and easy, try a little less when he wakes up

[jo_schmoe]

Yeah...give his tummy a rest. Its hard to say how long its been since he was without food....
He's probably out of shock now and realizing he's in a strange place......and with strange very large creatures....now is the time you want to just give him space....keep it very dark and quiet.....
When you check on him...keep talking to him softly....he will learn to recognize the sound of your voice with good things...eventually.

[virginia_arce2280]

I have a problem now. After he vomited, he fell asleep and now his breathing is getting shallow and he's going limp. I have him wrapped in a receiving blanket and keeping him warm with my body so I can monitor his vitals. How could this have gone so wrong so fast? I am afraid I'm losing him.
Suggestions?

[CritterMom]

Poor baby - God, I feel awful... Keep him nice and warm - you may want to bundle the heating pad up if you are going to hold him. He may have internal injuries...I hope not.

[jo_schmoe]

Poor baby - God, I feel awful... Keep him nice and warm - you may want to bundle the heating pad up if you are going to hold him. He may have internal injuries...I hope not.
Thats the first thing I thought when she said he vomited....c'mon little one....:grouphug
Keep him still and just keep talking to him.....
anyone think she should give him any more pedialite...sort of flush him out....kinda....:dono

[virginia_arce2280]

My husband just came home and I told him what happened and he told me not to give anymore formula right now or anything else at least through the night, because he got too much too fast and wore himself out and needs to rest.
Does that advice sound like what you guys might do too?
He's very tired acting. He's not as limp as before and he has sneezed a couple of times and one time while I was holding him, he jerked up and ran up my shirt and clung to my shoulder, and fell asleep again. I've got him in his carrier close to a sock buddy and wrapped in a blanket so I can get the kids to bed.

[Nancy in New York]

My husband just came home and I told him what happened and he told me not to give anymore formula right now or anything else at least through the night, because he got too much too fast and wore himself out and needs to rest.
Does that advice sound like what you guys might do too?
He's very tired acting. He's not as limp as before and he has sneezed a couple of times and one time while I was holding him, he jerked up and ran up my shirt and clung to my shoulder, and fell asleep again. I've got him in his carrier close to a sock buddy and wrapped in a blanket so I can get the kids to bed.

Yup sounds like great advice....:thumbsup

[redwuff]

thankyou for doing what you have done for the little guy. Praying hard for him.

[jo_schmoe]

I agree....rest is best!
Just check on him now and then....

[virginia_arce2280]

I would like to wish everyone a wonderful night. I am signing off. So far Caramelo is back to square one and he is resting quietly in his carrier. I have got the heating pad back on under half of the carrier. His breathing is better and he is not limp anymore, but I'm just going to let him rest through the night and check on him periodically. At one time he did get up and walk away from his sock buddy and I found him sleeping in a standing position leaning against the back of the carrier. Poor guy.
Thanks to everyone for your patience with me and support. you guys are great!
God's creatures are wonderful aren't they?!:thankyou

:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

I would like to wish everyone a wonderful night. I am signing off. So far Caramelo is back to square one and he is resting quietly in his carrier. I have got the heating pad back on under half of the carrier. His breathing is better and he is not limp anymore, but I'm just going to let him rest through the night and check on him periodically. At one time he did get up and walk away from his sock buddy and I found him sleeping in a standing position leaning against the back of the carrier. Poor guy.
Thanks to everyone for your patience with me and support. you guys are great!
God's creatures are wonderful aren't they?!:thankyou

:Love_Icon

Good night. Thank you for all that you are doing for little Caramelo...he is one lucky squirrel to have found his way to you.
:Love_Icon :grouphug :Love_Icon

[CritterMom]

Update??

[SammysMom]

Just checking in.how's the little guy doing?

[virginia_arce2280]

Hi Guys! Sorry about the delay in responding, but we've had a real breakthrough day today! I let Caramelo rest all night and this morning around 7 am, I got him up and gave him a few drops of pedialyte and he immediately perked up and grabbed the dropper and started sucking enthusiastically. Around 8:30, I gave him some more pedialyte, he acted like he was starving, so I gave a dropperful of formula with a little pedialyte mixed and let him rest some more and I've been doing that for every hour and 1/2 giving just a little more each time so as not to overwhelm his little tummy and He's back to crawling on the sides of the carrier again and he's even chewing on his blanket and my fingers. So I put a monkey biscuit in his carrier, (I hope that's okay) for him to chew on if he wants it. He chews a little bit, but then gets tired and goes back to sleep. Granted, he is still extremely week, and stays very still most of the time, just resting, but he does perk up quite a bit to eat, so I'm so excited that he's getting stronger and it looks like he went back into shock last night, but the nights rest did a world of good.
I'm keeping him on the heating pad(half of the carrier) and he likes his rice buddy now and lays on it.
I hope that what i'm doing is okay and any more suggestions, would be great.
He does look like he's suffering from some head trauma, because when he goes to suck sometimes, his tongue hangs out of the side until he can gain control again, which is usually pretty quickly.
I'm attaching a picture of the difference since yesterday when he was very limp and today, he's holding on with a firm grip with the dropper!:)

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/DSCF3632.jpg

[SammysMom]

What a great update! The only thing that I would suggest is using plain water to mix with the formula. Pedialye has too much sodium for more than one day of use. Other than that, it sounds like you are doing a great job! I am sure some of the experts will be along shortly! :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[SammysMom]

Easier to see a bit smaller... My goodness he is adorable!

[virginia_arce2280]

What a great update! The only thing that I would suggest is using plain water to mix with the formula. Pedialye has too much sodium for more than one day of use. Other than that, it sounds like you are doing a great job! I am sure some of the experts will be along shortly! :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

Let me clarify;
I mixed the formula first with 3 parts water 1 part fv according to the instructions from Nancy for the beginning and then to that mixture, I put just a little bit of pedialyte in that.

[SammysMom]

You can just leave out the pedialyte and you are good to go.

[Nancy in New York]

I resized your photo too like Sammy's mom did...Your post was going too far to the right...:D
He looks wonderful. Keep up the great work. He's looking great.
Do you have syringes? It's so much easier to control the intake when you use a syringe.:)

[virginia_arce2280]

Unfortunately, I don't have anymore syringes. The babies I just weaned chewed them all up. Jackie in Tampa sent me those. How can I get more? Because I really need to measure how much he's drinking. The dropper is a 1ml dropper, but since there's no lines, I can't be for sure how much he's getting.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

what side of Florida are you on??

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

oh you are like 3 hours from me, you can ask for syringes at a vet office, say they are for kittens get the 1cc to start with , you can try CVS and Walgreens but the one they have usually is for kids and hard to use, vet is better.

[virginia_arce2280]

Okay, I'll ask.
Thanks

[jo_schmoe]

:fireworks Caramelo......you're AMAZING!!!!!:fireworks

[jo_schmoe]

Try and get the syringes that were recommended first...but keep in mind most ones you will get at the vet clinic are meant for single done....meaning the have a plunger as opposed to an o-ring style. I have found that the plungers get sticky...and shoot formula into their mouths after about the first 3 uses....I switched to o-ring type because they are smooth....and hold up better.
I get mine here.....
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/rehab-supplies/oring-syringes.html

[virginia_arce2280]

my husband works at the hospital and he says he'll bring me some.(syringes) (he used to do animals, now he does people:crazy )-he's a vet tech with degree, now he's back in school to be an RN:p

Now, a question on food. Caramelo is still very weak, and a little disoriented. He sucks pretty good on the dropper, and likes to chew softly on my hands and blanket in between dropperfuls. Right now he's on 3 to 1 fox valley. And has been all day today. Yesterday was all day pedialyte. And this last time he had about 5 mls. He weighs 165 grams. When can I go up to the regular strength? And I'm only giving him what he seems to have the strength for, because he gets tired very quickly.
Those with experience with trauma, what do you suggest?

[Nancy in New York]

my husband works at the hospital and he says he'll bring me some.(syringes) (he used to do animals, now he does people:crazy )-he's a vet tech with degree, now he's back in school to be an RN:p

Now, a question on food. Caramelo is still very weak, and a little disoriented. He sucks pretty good on the dropper, and likes to chew softly on my hands and blanket in between dropperfuls. Right now he's on 3 to 1 fox valley. And has been all day today. Yesterday was all day pedialyte. And this last time he had about 5 mls. He weighs 165 grams. When can I go up to the regular strength? And I'm only giving him what he seems to have the strength for, because he gets tired very quickly.
Those with experience with trauma, what do you suggest?

How often are you feeding? He could take between 8 cc's and 12 cc's if you go by the "suggested" amount. BUT it would depend on how often you are feeding him.
I have no experience with head trauma and feeding. Does he still exhibit signs of trauma? How is the cheek swelling?

[virginia_arce2280]

both of his cheeks are still fat and to me he shows signs of head trauma, because he hangs his head low and acts disoriented sometimes and can fall asleep in the middle of climbing, eating, or walking. And sometimes as he's trying to latch on to the dropper, his tongue sticks way out and to the side, but then he fixes it pretty quickly. he also walks in a circle head down chewing on his blanket sometimes.
I was feeding him just a few dropperfuls every 1 1/2 hours because of what happened last night with the vomiting and him going VERY limp for several hours with labored breathing, I was trying to go easy on his tummy, and working up to about the last feeding at 6:30 he had around 5-6 mls and I'm going in to feed him again now.

[Nancy in New York]

both of his cheeks are still fat and to me he shows signs of head trauma, because he hangs his head low and acts disoriented sometimes and can fall asleep in the middle of climbing, eating, or walking. And sometimes as he's trying to latch on to the dropper, his tongue sticks way out and to the side, but then he fixes it pretty quickly. he also walks in a circle head down chewing on his blanket sometimes.
I was feeding him just a few dropperfuls every 1 1/2 hours because of what happened last night with the vomiting and him going VERY limp for several hours with labored breathing, I was trying to go easy on his tummy, and working up to about the last feeding at 6:30 he had around 5-6 mls and I'm going in to feed him again now.

OK a few dropperfuls every hour and a half would be approximately 6 cc's every 3 hours....so that is ok. You're right to do it this way because of what happened last night...very smart.:)
Is he still on the pain relievers? I only ask because I know that sometimes when squirrels have pain they bite down...on bars, blankets, anything close by.:dono

[virginia_arce2280]

Yes, he had some more ibuprofen today. He's only had 2 doses, one yesterday and one today.
But something just happened now as he was nearing the end of the feeding. He had a seizure, a full blown body seizure, poor thing, and now he's sleeping, but he gets jumpy.
My goodness this is scary. He seems to do good in the day and as soon as the sun sets, he goes downhill.:confused:

[CritterMom]

Regarding going up to full strength - I would do everything very gradually with this little one. You can start making each batch just a teeny bit more concentrated than the last until you arrive at the 2:1.

[Nancy in New York]

Oh yeah....darn it, I was hoping that we wouldn't see seizures. So very common in head trauma babies.....UGH!

[SammysMom]

After a seizure you might want to put a bit of molasses or maple syrup on his gums if possible. I think it is to bring their blood sugar back up as it drops during a seizure. :grouphug Carmello:grouphug

[virginia_arce2280]

Oh yeah....darn it, I was hoping that we wouldn't see seizures. So very common in head trauma babies.....UGH!

So now, should I just let him rest or try to finish the feeding?

[virginia_arce2280]

Going now to the molasses. Be back in a min.

[Nancy in New York]

I am scanning info about seizures right now and will send in a pm to you.

Good thinking Sammy's Mom...:thumbsup

[virginia_arce2280]

molasses is on. His eyes are wide open and he's extremely still and didn't even flinch as I put the molasses on.

[pappy1264]

Is he still on the heat? A general rule with possible head trauma is not to use heat, you want to try to keep body temp as close to normal or even a little low, so to not cause more swelling. I would continue slowly with formula, and try to keep him as quiet as possible. You are doing all you can for this little guy. Dex is sometimes used with head trauma, but only usualy within a certain amount of time, I believe. I wish I had more to offer, head trauma is very tough, supportive care, pain meds and lots of prayers, which you are doing all now.

[virginia_arce2280]

Thanks for that.
The heat is very low, just to take the chilll off the cold plastic carrier.
I have a thermoscan thermometer and the carrier is 81 degrees and the warmest part of the carrier where the heating pad is is 96 degrees. What is normal temp for a squirrel?

[Jackie in Tampa]

I saw early on where lildukes has advised NO HEAT..that is correct.
However if the head is not swollen, heat is not a big concern as long as he is physically capable of maintaining his own temps.


O ring syringes are different than what the feed store and vet carry.
You will need many as they will stick and cause explosion and possible aspiration.
Molasses has natural calcium in it and seizures deplete brain calcium.
I always dab it in their mouth after seizures..

NO DEX with head trauma, it is wonderful for spinal swelling.

If you are using pedialyte, stop and make home made pedi without the salt..just sugar and you can use that every now and then.
NEVER add pedialyte to the formula or use it to make formula.

the vomit issue sounds like you were feeding too fast and/or too much, it could possibly be he was dizzy.

Chewing the blanket is pain indicator.
You need metacam/meloxicam.
Dose for sq is 0.3 mg/kg ONCE A DAY!
No steroids can be used with it, Metacam is NSAID.

If you want to get him here we can do a train.
there are members closer, however meds and vet care maybe diffecult.

Other than that, most vets will euthanize when you say head trauma seizures..it is a common protocol with wildlife. :shakehead
Be prepared if you do go to a vet that you are not familiar with.

Got your PM...glad the package came in handy after all..
those were O ring syringes.
Carmelo would love a pouch just like that, they love to hunker down inside something cozy.

Are you using FV?
I have skimmed the thread, will try to read entirely:thumbsup
Let me know if I can help, alot of cooks in the kitchen, don't want to step on toes or cause confusion.
Good luck Camelo:Love_Icon
You're doing great Virginia acres.

[Itchiku's dad]

I've been reading the posts and had a thought I could be barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm sure one of the experts will tell me if I am. So here goes: molasses has calcium in it well it has all the nutrients that sugar has stripped out of it so would it be better to make the home made pedi from molasses or maple syrup instead of sugar???

[jo_schmoe]

I saw early on where lildukes has advised NO HEAT..that is correct.
However if the head is not swollen, heat is not a big concern as long as he is physically capable of maintaining his own temps.


.
Jackie....you might find this interesting....
From what I have read....the heat actually HELPS with HT....
This is why its important that we keep up to date with our protocols....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7976614

[virginia_arce2280]

I've been reading the posts and had a thought I could be barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm sure one of the experts will tell me if I am. So here goes: molasses has calcium in it well it has all the nutrients that sugar has stripped out of it so would it be better to make the home made pedi from molasses or maple syrup instead of sugar???


I would like to know this too, before I make it. :thankyou
It makes sense

[jo_schmoe]

I would like to know this too, before I make it. :thankyou
It makes sense
Id stick with the sugar. There are many different types of molasses...most being way too high in iron....

[lilidukes]

That info is dated Jan 1994. :dono

[jo_schmoe]

That info is dated Jan 1994. :dono
well when you consider how much research is actually done....that would be new info.
Whether its 2 years ago....or 20.....you can't ignore the science....and the fact that added heat ( in this study) reduced cerebral edema and possibly reduced plasma proteins....is something to at least look at....

[Jackie in Tampa]

my vet and I have had this discussion..and will continue to have it with every new head trauma case I get in..
and we all know I get all the doozers!
I never claim to be anything except receptive..
and if 20 year old data is new..we are in trouble..
in humans they lower the body temp...
hmmmm< i am very receptive and do my own research, however thank you for your input...

[Nancy in New York]

At this point, perhaps the heat debate is a mute point as this little one can most likely go off the heat since he is fully furred and eyes wide open.

Questioning methods, finding stuidies, and having vet input is so helpful and appreciated, it's just difficult for the finder on which way to go....:dono

But I guess where else can you have the debates...as long as they are civil....:peace

[jo_schmoe]

my vet and I have had this discussion..and will continue to have it with every new head trauma case I get in..
and we all know I get all the doozers!
I never claim to be anything except receptive..
and if 20 year old data is new..we are in trouble..
in humans they lower the body temp...
hmmmm< i am very receptive and do my own research, however thank you for your input...
Interesting how instead of looking at the science.....the date of the science is what's in question....not the actual science. :thinking

Also in humans.....they NEVER give an NSAID.....it increases the risk of head bleeding...
I wanted to say this before...but I didn't want to step on anyones toes....:peace
I too do my own research.....after all...thats why we are here!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

Interesting how instead of looking at the science.....the date of the science is what's in question....not the actual science. :thinking

Also in humans.....they NEVER give an NSAID.....it increases the risk of head bleeding...
I wanted to say this before...but I didn't want to step on anyones toes....:peace
I too do my own research.....after all...thats why we are here!!
I am not smart enough to discuss this here...but what I have enough kahonnies to say is that if you ask any nuerologists, they will tell you several things you must consider..and the one dealing with nsaids and steroids is very easy to answer right here and now with out any research,,,steroids have major side effects that do major more issues to the injured area of the brain than nsaids do..and usually swelling stops blood flow. That's my take on what my vet has answered in the past, I ask alot of questions...
every injury is different..
besides some of us have a better med than either of the two I mentioned above...
and we will share the data we are collecting when we have good info...all in good time!

[virginia_arce2280]

I thought I would give an update, since we are a little over 48 hours after receiving Caramelo after getting hit by a car.
I realize the controversy of using heat after a head trauma and I had absolutely no experience in the matter, but a very low heat seemed to really help him especially in the first 24 hours to soothe his muscles and help him sleep. He's been off the heat now all afternoon and has been building on 2.5/1 ratio of fox valley and slowly working up to the regular 2/1 ratio. I've got him up to 12 mls every 2-2.5 hours, (I hope that's an okay feeding frame while strengthening a trauma squirrel-that seems to be when he gets hungry again)
He eats very eagerly and holds the syringe now and scrambles out of my hands like a normal hungry, greedy squirrel:D
And he loves to lay on my chest for a little while after eating. He seems satisfied. He does try to clean him self now. He can't quite sit up yet so he props himself up on the blanket.
He does still sleep between feedings like a newborn, but it seems to be normal for a recovering trauma victim, because he's so tired and sore.
I hope we won't see another seizure tonight like last night, but so far so good. Caramelo is slowly regaining strength again. I really hope I'm doing everything right and if I'm not, I'm always open to the experts' suggestions. Thanks you guys for all of the support and information. :tilt
I am still stumped on this little guy's age. He seems so big. He's so much bigger than my other squirrels and yet he seems so young. Some have suggested "teenage" equivalent. Is it normal for them to vary so much in size? I've got two 12 week olds who are half his size and not near as thick of fur as his.

Oh, and Jackie, here is the picture of the my other 3 squished into the great little fuzzy pouch you made. They love it in there!:)
(Forgive the towel. It has since been removed from their cage and replaced with a flannel blanket.)

[pappy1264]

Sounds like he is moving in the right direction! Praying for no more seizures! If that is what he will take, stick with that, and maybe in a day or two try to see if he will take a little more each feeding. Prayers continue. You are doing a great job!! (And that pic is adorable!!)

[virginia_arce2280]

:wott
Late night feeding done! 14 mls eagerly taken, and No seizures! He snuggled up to my chest and enjoyed a few scratches under the ears with the happiest look on his face.
I put him in his carrier with his blanky and he actually rooted around with his nose and twitching his tail like a normal squirrel, before burying himself in the blanket. I can go to sleep knowing that he's getting better!!
God is so good! His creatures are awesome!
:jump

[pappy1264]

Wonderful update!!!! Keep fighting little guy....you have tons of prayers going out to you!! Doing a little happy dance here (still cautious, but this is def. a good update!)

[virginia_arce2280]

Wonderful update!!!! Keep fighting little guy....you have tons of prayers going out to you!! Doing a little happy dance here (still cautious, but this is def. a good update!)

Yes, still very cautious, because it can always turn downhill quickly, but so far, so good. (at least tonight anyway) Everyone have a wonderful night!
Thanks so much!

[Nancy in New York]

To me it sound like you are doing everything perfectly....:bowdown
Fantastic update.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Yes, good update, flicking the tail gives a sense of he is there and knows what is happening.:thumbsup
Pm me your address again and I can send another pouch;)

[Nutty's Mama]

So happy to hear that he is doing well!! Great job and keep up the good work. Thoughts and prayers are with you :grouphug

[virginia_arce2280]

We are now on day 5 with Caramelo and just wanted to give another update.
So far, he's continuing to get better. Looks like he may have some permanent neuro damage, because he constantly rubs both sides of his face on the floor as he walks, and he does not jump. My husband said that's what he was doing when he found him in the middle of the road.
But there is some good news. He gained 35 grams in 4 days and now weighs 200 grams. He's drinking his FV great and eating fruits and vegetables and is even gnawing on his monkey biscuit and a moss covered stick that's in his carrier.
He does have lice and I am treating that now. He even fell asleep while I was grooming him and rolled to his back so I could do his belly. I just went very slowly parting the (very thick) hairs to check for eggs and live lice. I bathed him in warm lemon juice and water mixture and I will check again tomorrow and possibly dust him a little with flea powder if I see more. He seems so content to have a mommy, (so opposite from my male 12.5 week old who is so wild you can't even catch him to put him back in the cage- It takes me and my 2 girls to trap him to get him, He will definitely be happier once he's outside:squirrel1 )

I did read somewhere in one of these threads about lice that you could use grapefruit seed extract, which we have. I read that because it is natural, it is also soothing to the skin. Anyone have experience with that?
Also, the powder that I have is Seargeant's flea and tick powder for cats. Would that be any good?
:thankyou

[virginia_arce2280]

Hi Everyone,
Caramelo is lathargic and very sleepy. I was gone over the weekend and left very explicit feeding instructions for all of the animals and baggies of food each day for each animal. All of the squirrels got their homemade rodent block, with vegetables, brocoli, snap beans, avocado, bell peppers, and fruit, mango, apple, and some acorns and a pecan each for every day. The other squirrels are fine, but this morning, I noticed that Caramelo was still sleeping in the morning when all the others were bouncing in their cage ready for breakfast. He quickly ate a homemade rodent block when I woke him up and gave him his food, but I did notice him poofier than normal and it dawned on me when he kept acting sleepy through the morning that maybe he was dehydrated.
He did ween himself off of formula about a week ago and has been eating very well whatever I would give him, he would eat and would go to the water bottle everynow and then. But I'm not sure if he was really drinking his water.
So I tried to give him some sugar water to see if that would perk him up some, and to make sure that he got enough calcium, I crushed up a children's tums and mixed it in the water and I had to force feed him drop by drop the water. He swallowed it when I gave it to him, but he didn't really want it. He took about 2 mls total and after about 10 minutes started vomiting, so I'm not sure what's going on.
Suggestions?
He does still have balance issues and does sleep a lot ever since we got him (head trauma from being hit by a car), but it seems more now than before.
Should I try to give him some more water, but plain this time? with no sugar or calcium?

[virginia_arce2280]

also, as I was looking him over, he is losing some fur around his mouth:dono

[Nancy in New York]

I would get hydration in him any way you can. Was somebody actually watching these little ones. Does he have a water bottle? Is it working?
Could he have possibly gotten into anything while you were gone? Can there be something moldy in his cage?
Sorry about so many questions.
OK I just reread again....I am wondering if he got a moldy acorn. Push the fluids.

[virginia_arce2280]

I made up some weak fox valley about 3:1 ratio and trying to give that to him, but he doesn't want it. He just wants to curl up and sleep.

[jo_schmoe]

Poor kid! I know how frustrating it is to think its all better and then have the turn makes you think otherwise. :grouphug

Could he possibly be having seizures from the head trauma? I know of a lady who has a squirrel that was hit by a car....the squirrel is now narcoleptic...and will pass out anywhere....anytime.
I think the fluids sound good....if you are doing sugar in the water....maybe try some molasses instead....or just plain water.

[virginia_arce2280]

I did clean out their cages this morning and there were a few peices of fruit that didn't get eaten in both cages and were starting to mold. My inlaws were feeding all of the animals and they said that evertime they came to feed them, they were all ready to eat and Caramelo would even sit in his bowl and eat his food acting normal.

[jo_schmoe]

I would get hydration in him any way you can. Was somebody actually watching these little ones. Does he have a water bottle? Is it working?
Could he have possibly gotten into anything while you were gone? Can there be something moldy in his cage?
Sorry about so many questions.
OK I just reread again....I am wondering if he got a moldy acorn. Push the fluids.
Nancy....very good point!!
If thats the case....then push fluids as much as you can. Look for any vomit....

[virginia_arce2280]

Poor kid! I know how frustrating it is to think its all better and then have the turn makes you think otherwise. :grouphug

Could he possibly be having seizures from the head trauma? I know of a lady who has a squirrel that was hit by a car....the squirrel is now narcoleptic...and will pass out anywhere....anytime.
I think the fluids sound good....if you are doing sugar in the water....maybe try some molasses instead....or just plain water.

He did have seizures in the beginning, but seemed to do better and we hadn't noticed any seizures since.

[virginia_arce2280]

Is fox valley okay, or just water?

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

If he looks poofie you mean his hair is standing up more?? then you need to push the hydration.

[virginia_arce2280]

Well, after bothering him a bit and pushing a few drops of fox valley, he perked up and started wiping his face off on my clothes and now he's trying to walk all over and his eyes are wide open and I set him down and he's bouncing across the floor. He doesn't want the formula or water, but he did seem to wake up a bit. Should I just keep giving him a few drops every few minutes as he'll take it?

[virginia_arce2280]

If he looks poofie you mean his hair is standing up more?? then you need to push the hydration.

He is a poofier eastern gray than my others anyway, but yes, his hair did seem to be standing up more, so I'll keep pushing fluids as I can.

[jo_schmoe]

If it were me.....I'd still force the fluids as much as you can.
Since you did water in the beginning...the FV will be good now.
The extra nutrition will help get him going even more. I'd still do a few syringes of water between the FV....
If this was in fact a seizure.....they really take a lot out of them. It can take awhile to snap back. The molasses is recommended for a quick boost after a seizure.

[virginia_arce2280]

OKay, I'll give a little molasses on the gums too.:thankyou
I didn't think about it possibly being a seizure

[jo_schmoe]

OKay, I'll give a little molasses on the gums too.:thankyou
I didn't think about it possibly being a seizure
Well...its hard to tell exactly what happened....
If it were a bad piece of food...fluids will help flush it out.
If it were a seizure....fluids and molasses will help.
So either way.....Fluids are the key.
Ive had a squirrel that had gotten into something hidden away in their midden that was WAY beyond the point of OK anymore.....he became weak....vommited and was poofy and cool. I forced water...and formula for about 4 hrs. He was better within the first 30 minutes..back to normal.....but I continued with the fluids just to make sure he was good and cleaned out.

In case anyone is wondering....adult male red squirrels...( mean as they are)....when not feeling well.....WILL STILL melt in their foster mamas hands....just like a baby again. :Love_Icon ( they are softer than any fur I have EVER felt in my life....like silk!)

[Jackie in Tampa]

how are you guys doing?