Newbie that was led astray

[newguy53]

Hi all,

i am so glad i found this forum, has put me in the right direction but i hope its not to late.

i have become the new adopted parent to 2 orphaned baby squirrels.
first thing i did was jump online and see what could be done, of course i found all the wrong information and had them on esbilac(new formula)

They have lost alot of weight but eat 2ccs every 3 hours. i did a day of rehydrating with pedialyte and they were fresh from the mother so i assumed that was ok,

feces were a good texture and had the mustard colour, great on the right track..... now it has turned to diarrhea and i am very worried for them. i have picked up the things it think are needed for the temporary goat milk formula till i can source out foxvalley(im in ontario canada)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/SexyCelica/photo1-4.jpg
urine is clear an copious ,

is it wise to redo a hydration or go right to the goats milk formula?, they still have big appetite and move around like crazy

squirrel#1 is at 41.6g
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/SexyCelica/photo5-2.jpg

squirrel #2 is at 36g
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/SexyCelica/photo4-2.jpg

ears just came off of head a day or two ago,

is this the proper things for the goat milk formula?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/SexyCelica/photo-1.jpg


thanks for any input

[astra]

hi newguy,

could you email me right now? I can give you a phone number of one of our expert members who is up late at night and whom you can call right now.
My email is ad_astra81@hotmail.com

just please email asap as I am way past my bedtime :)

[astra]

yes, the stuff you have looks like the right stuff for the temp. goat's milk formula.

we have some members in GTA area, are you anywhere near that?

in the meantime, if you can the number I'll give you, your most immediate questions will be answered right away, which you and your little ones need.:)

[astra]

i am going to bed within the next 10 min, so if you would like the number, please email me

[CritterMom]

I would give several rehydration only feedings (you can give them pedialyte or homemade rehydration more often than food) and then start with the GM formula MINUS the cream (for now). Once the poops start to firm up, gradually add the cream in (they need the fat but it is very rich for a sick tummy, which is why you want to hold off on it at first).

Esbilac....:soapbox :soapbox

[Jackie in Tampa]

I would give several rehydration only feedings (you can give them pedialyte or homemade rehydration more often than food) and then start with the GM formula MINUS the cream (for now). Once the poops start to firm up, gradually add the cream in (they need the fat but it is very rich for a sick tummy, which is why you want to hold off on it at first).

Esbilac....:soapbox :soapbox
:Welcome :wave123
Crittermom has given you good advise..
please do not use immodium or any diarrhea medication, the issues will pass with the change in formula, it may take a few days.

keep them warm, keep all feeding fluids warm but not hot, never reheat formula,
do not heat formula in the microwave itself, float a baby food jar of formula in a mug of hot water, you'll need a few 1cc syringes and nipples, you can get them from FV also.
Freeze the goats milk into cubes and thaw as needed, GM has a short shelf life, do not freeze the yogurt.

I would give them a feeding of pedialyte then start the Goatsmilk formula diluted with water 50-50%...next feeding can be full strength.

homemade pedialyte
1 quart warm water
1 teaspoon salt
3 tablespoons sugar
keep refridgerated for upto 72 hours, never give pedialyte only for more than 24 hours, it's counter productive.

If using a card board container, it will suck moisture from the babies,
sterlite containers are better, drilling holes in lid and high up on the sides,
no towels, claws get caught.
Sometimes bad formula will cause diarrhea, sometimes it can be coccidia from stress.

Imo, they do not look terrible, we have seen much worse from feeding esbilac, good thing you found the correct info before they were emaciated and declining worse.
You can turn these guys around with the Goats milk formula.

Good luck! can't wait to watch them grow and thrive!
Thank you for giving them your all:bowdown

:wave123 :Welcome

[Jackie in Tampa]

oops, please use fleece or tshirts in the sterlite container, forgot to say that, :thumbsup
also container needs to be half on heating pad, allowing an unwarmed side so they can leave the heat if they are too warm.
Never allow the container to be hot, you may need to place a cloth between the pad and the sterlite, a fist sized WARM area is all that is needed.
I always use a rice buddy in the same area, the heating pad will help keep it warm, occasionally it will need to be reheated..I reheat every feeding.
babies love a rice buddy, you'll see, they cling to it.
a sock filled with any dry rice, tied off and heated in micro for 20-40 seconds...smish the rice around to evenly distribute the warm rice, never hot.. make sure it doesn't burn you and then it's perfect!:Love_Icon
Oh lalla, they'll love you for it!:D
Do your little sweeties have names yet?

EDIT, thanks MM

[lilidukes]

:Welcome newguy53 :wave123 :wave123

Many of us landed here at TSB after making many mistakes. It's still a wonder to me how I kept my first one alive.:tilt And today I have a house full of non releasables and way toooooooo many babies.

Hats off to you for wanting the very best for these precious babies. Great job:thumbsup

BTY your in great hands with Jackies advice!

[newguy53]

I'm so sorry I haven't replied and I thank you all for taking the time and effort, I used the goatsmilk and they are wirey as ever now, flip floppin like crazy and never sit still for bathroom time , they have been puttin on decent weight,"shadow" is now 47g and "shade" is back up to 41g, poop is a little bit soft still and a light brownish yellow(not sure if that's normal with goats milk), I have located a rehabber next town over and will most likely be letting them take over, I'd hate to cause these little guys harm or not recognize health issues, also the legal issues that could arise as we cannot house a wild animal for more than 24 hours ....

For future reference though if i am allowed to foster these lil guys , Does foxvalley ship to Canada?

[Milo's Mom]

I think Fox Valley does ship to Canada, but I am not 100% positive.

If you call FV and talk to Nick (he's the owner) he will be able to work something out with you for sure. Nick is AWESOME!!!

Hopefully some of our Canada members can share some info with you too.

[iwonka]

For future reference though if i am allowed to foster these lil guys , Does foxvalley ship to Canada?

Hi newguy53!! :Welcome

Yes.. Foxvalley ships to Canada. However, it takes time to cross the border .. about 1 week or more.
I have few bags with me so I can help you out if you want.. If I send tomorrow morning you should have them in 2 days max.
Let me know.

[newguy53]

Wow thanks for the offer, if after I contact the rehabber near me tomorrow and a formula can't be had, I'd very much appreciate the help. I'll know more tomorrow afternoon :)

Maybe a mod can move this outta emergency now?

[gs1]

:Welcome iwonka is very generous... fv does ship to canada but customs holdups can be a problem....

many non tsb rehabbers are recommending esbilac which is horrible.... please don't use that ....



:Welcome

ps: as for the cream ... i really like organic whipping cream if there is a wholefoods, presidents choice or longos near you ... i'm not sure about seal test... i was looking at one yesterday ..i think it was nealson and they had almost 8 other ingredients to their cream... thickners and i'm not sure what else... so is your cream just cream or does it have a bunch of chemicals?

[cordie]

Hey Newbie, I too am from southwestern Ontario and it is very expensive to order fox valley from Canada, I use esbilac canine or esbilac goat for sensitive tummies, mixed with lactose free whipping cream,,,,( metro sells it ),,,,,i have had great success and feed 5 % of their body weight each feed,,,,good luck

[island rehabber]

If Royal Canin milk replacers are available to any of you Canadian members, I am told it is excellent quality and the next best thing to Fox Valley -- WAAAAAYYY better than Esbi-crap. :D

[iwonka]

Very soon the Fox Valley will also be available in Canada .. I am working on this with Nick now :thumbsup

NO MORE MALNOURISHED BABIES IN CANADA :jump
:thumbsup

[cordie]

not to get into any kind of a issue, but i use esbilac and have NEVER had any issues with babies, they have all grown up to be pudgy healthy squirrels and have all been released, i have not lost one due to my care or Esbilac. i think that there is alot of misinformation out there about esbilac and am here to say that it is a good product just as good as fox valley or royal canin,,,it is my experience that most wild critters are lactose intolerant, therefore should not be given any yogurt, or whipping cream unless it is lactose free, if you have a sensitve tummy baby i use esbilac goat milk formula and have had great success,,,,thank you

[island rehabber]

cordie, The Squirrel Board no longer recommends Esbilac because of its change in formula. Esbilac was a perfectly good product until Pet Ag changed the manufacturing process back in 2008-9. After that, thousands of baby squirrels, bunnies and even puppies began dying after incurable bouts of diarrhea. The babies could not digest the "new" formula, and starved to death although they were eating "normally" . Pet Ag, incidentally, couldn't have cared less. :shakehead

There are squirrel experts (Shirley Casey) who have derived a complicated way of using Esbilac so that it does not kill babies, and that's fine. You can boil it, shake it, let it sit for a week, do whatever they say you need to do with it, if you want to use it now.....me, I like to keep things simple. Fox Valley: 1 scoop powder, 2 scoops water....stir. Feed. Get happy healthy squirrel. :D :thumbsup

[skarabrae]

I just got 8lbs of FV shipped to Canada and even including the customs fees, it's still way cheaper than buying Esbilac... like, over half the price WITHOUT figuring the cream and yogurt to "healthify" it. I would just go ahead and order it from the fox valley site.

[Curliesmom]

Pretty babies. Love em.

[newguy53]

sorry guys, totally didnt notice replies, i thought i subscribed to this thread,

happy to say i ordered from fox valley, 2 days!!!! at my door! thanks Nick!!! even after the duties it was a small price to pay to see these lil fuzzballs thrive

these lil guys love it, theyve packed on the weight and its consistant, although im starting to think Shade is the runt of the litter, shadow is ahead by miles, has thick coat, bigger head, has almost a two tone fur to him while Shade is a solid jet black, its almost like Shade is 5 days behind Shadow,, the weight difference is almost 10grams but they gain at the same rate... but happy and lovin life so ill take that as a win.

shadow (left) Shade ( right)-

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/SexyCelica/photo10-1.jpg

and the awww pic for the day

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/SexyCelica/photo9-1.jpg

[island rehabber]

that wasn't an "awww" from me -- that was an "oh, my GAWD how GORGEOUS!!!!" :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon I am so happy that the kids are doing well and you got your FV. Don't worry about the difference in weights; that's totally normal. In fact, it's why you won't find a chart of "typical weights" of baby grey squirrels anywhere -- there is waaay too much difference even within the same litter, let alone in different geographical areas. Long as they are steadily gaining and looking as terrific as your babies, all is well! Good job! :bowdown

[skarabrae]

EEK!!! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

They look just like my little guys, and almost exactly the same size. We should race and see who opens their eyes first. :rotfl

[newguy53]

EEK!!! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

They look just like my little guys, and almost exactly the same size. We should race and see who opens their eyes first. :rotfl



Lol deal