And it continues

[Orphan Mom]

I moved on over to this forum because I'm getting more and more concerned. OK, I'm pretty confident about cocci in the sqrs. Got a lead on a wildlife vet:wallet , but they couldn't get me in until sometime next week, and these babies need help now. :shakehead

I was able to get hold of some Sulmet and some Albon. Which would you recommend I use? I'm leaning toward Albon, since the cocci diagnosis isn't definitive. And what dosage? Mork weighs 125 g, and Mindy weighs 145 g. Anybody have any guidance on mixing up the powder? This is all in quarts and gallons. :carzy2

I cleaned their cage top to bottom with vinegar (I'd been washing just their bedding and dishes every day this week). I have new litter I am going to put down. Other suggestions before I put them back in there?

I guess I brought the cocci in when I brought in some branches for them to climb on :Cry

And in other news, Mindy's cyst ruptured sometime today. It is completely drained and the wound is open. Lots of loose skin there too. :yuck I put some neosporin on it. Can anyone think of anything else I should be doing for that? Makes me so mad at that vet. :hissyfit If he had even looked at it for half a second the last time I went in he could've removed it, stitched it, and she wouldn't have an open gaping wound. :chair

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

what are they doing that makes you believe it is cocci?
and how large is the hole from her cyst?

[Orphan Mom]

Sorry. Here's the initial thread about the diarrhea (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33493).

It's hard to say about the hole. The cyst was literally more than half the size of her head when it ruptured, so there is all this stretched loose skin. If I were to guess about the size of the real hole -- probably an inch or bigger?

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

the actual hole the puss came out of?
It may need to be packed, that is why I am asking...

[Orphan Mom]

the actual hole the puss came out of?
It may need to be packed, that is why I am asking...

Yes. Seriously. It's that big.

Packed. Omygeez. We're getting into vomit territory.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Unfortunately a large opened wound like that on a small animal can be difficult to heal. How do you know all the puss is out? It needs to be flushed with wound wash solution, not just water, unless the water has been boiled first, infection can still fester inside and start all over again, that is why it may need to be packed with gaze soak with antibiotic meds for several days then removed so it can close. If the opening is very small it should still be flushed then wrapped so no dirt can get in it.
as far as the diarrhea and the meds you have, I would nOT use them. You say they have worked on other animals of your but please remember squirrels are not like other animals, as Jackie said in you other thread, SMZ-TMP is the drug of choice for the cocci, not what you have.

[Orphan Mom]

Unfortunately a large opened wound like that on a small animal can be difficult to heal. How do you know all the puss is out? It needs to be flushed with wound wash solution, not just water, unless the water has been boiled first, infection can still fester inside and start all over again, that is why it may need to be packed with gaze soak with antibiotic meds for several days then removed so it can close. If the opening is very small it should still be flushed then wrapped so no dirt can get in it.

I washed it with soapy water. I used Dawn. There actually wasn't any puss. I swear it was a cyst -- but not an abscess. Plus, she's been on amox and then baytril, and no AB had any effect. I am worried about that open wound.


As far as the diarrhea and the meds you have, I would nOT use them. You say they have worked on other animals of your but please remember squirrels are not like other animals, as Jackie said in you other thread, SMZ-TMP is the drug of choice for the cocci, not what you have.

That would be well and good if I had access to said drugs. But I don't. I actually found out about the Albon from TSB posts (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13533). I understand that everyone wants to give the best solution, but when that solution is not an option, it's important to look at Plan B. Not treating at all is a worse idea.

[Orphan Mom]

I just don't understand why, when I am researching my butt off, and I have spent time and money going to a vet, when I am scouring the internet to order the proper products, or I am driving all over town to find sources for medicines people keep treating me like I'm not willing to do the right thing to take care of these little guys. Sometimes a person can't get to a vet. Sometimes you go to a vet, and the vet does no good at all. Sometimes you have to do triage care.

[Jackie in Tampa]

it's okay..we are here and if you ask for help, we are here and will try!
I will and SSM is doing all she can..we are not reahbbers ..were just good ole girls!:)
for the wound, yes, flush using a large cc syringe if you have one, otherwise wrap his head well {eyes} and pour warm dilute betedine on the open hole.
You really need to do this twice a day..
if possible and it were me..I would pack it with silver sulfadene..and as a bonus healer, if you can find human insulin, we can make a paste that needs to be refridgerated ad good for only one week, but 1 ounce of SS and 1 cc of insulin is amazing..I have used this for a week old gaping gut wound..literally gapping , guts showing..we have pics..it healed and blew us all away..the boy is out there happy as can be, it was fast too.

ok as far as the suspected cocidia..albon is sulfa based, and out of all the drugs you have mentioned, this one is almost in agreeance,the problem where I live is coccidia is resistant to it. However, I would give it a try, a rehabber member in another state uses it sucsessfully for years..
In Wild Mammel Babies the dose for albon is 50mg/kg
it says to double first loading dose and once a day for 14 days!:thumbsup
thank you for trying, I soo understand your hands are tied.
good luck, hope this helps!:thumbsup

[mpetys]

I actually found out about the Albon from TSB posts[/URL][/I]. I understand that everyone wants to give the best solution, but when that solution is not an option, it's important to look at Plan B. Not treating at all is a worse idea.

I checked with a rehabber that I work with and was told that the initial dose would be 0.14 cc and 0.16 cc. Then after that it would be 0.07 cc and 0.08 cc given once a day. This is if you have the 5% liquid. If you have tablet, then it may be different.

Hope this helps.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Thank you Jackie.....It is very hard to help sight unseen injuries and illness. And squirrels on top of that.
So many vets don't care and just don't know that much about them. I am still learning as much as I can from those who have been at it longer, so I may hesitate and just repeat what I have heard before, mostly because I don't want to give the WRONG advice. But I also know how frustrating it is when there isn't anyone one on or anyone answering, so if I can answer some what I do.
Acknowledgment is very important to the poor mommy that just doesn't know where to turn to help their baby.
Treating any animal is not an exact science we do what we can with what we have and those who have for many years and have the most success are the ones I like to listen to, that's all.

[Orphan Mom]

Thank you both so much! :thankyou

The Albon I have is powdered form, but knowing that I'm aiming for a 5% solution, makes that cipherable. Thank you for the dosage.


for the wound, yes, flush using a large cc syringe if you have one, otherwise wrap his head well {eyes} and pour warm dilute betedine on the open hole. You really need to do this twice a day..

OK, I can do that. And of course the betadine was right there beside the Albon today at the co-op, but did I get any?


If possible and it were me..I would pack it with silver sulfadene..and as a bonus healer, if you can find human insulin, we can make a paste that needs to be refridgerated ad good for only one week, but 1 ounce of SS and 1 cc of insulin is amazing..

You aren't going to believe this but I have some silver sulfadiazine the doctor prescribed to my son last year for a severe sunburn. My dad is diabetic. I can get insulin from him. Does it have to be any particular "flavor" of insulin?

I might need some handholding through this packing adventure. The thought of it hits my gag reflex, besides I really don't know how it's done. I will use my google foo and see if I can get a tutorial. Maybe I'll call you sometimes tomorrow when I have all the ingredients, and you can walk me through it?

I have had them on a formula and yogurt only diet for 2 days. And I am giving them Imodium, just to try and keep them from dehydrating. But little Mork especially seems to still have diarrhea really bad.

When I had Gus he never had any problems. None. It was a piece of cake. This has certainly been a lesson in the fact that it's not easy to raise wild critters.

[Orphan Mom]

And thank you for giving me a little peace of mind tonight. For the first time today I don't feel hopeless and panicked.:Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

I used a scale to weigh the SS outta the tub, and mixed in the insulin,
I applied it twice a day with a clean popsicle stick.
It has to be refridgerated and is good for 7 days..
I was given this recipe from my vet, it is amazing.
Here are dated pics of the progress.

[Orphan Mom]

I used a scale to weigh the SS outta the tub, and mixed in the insulin,
I applied it twice a day with a clean popsicle stick.
It has to be refridgerated and is good for 7 days..
I was given this recipe from my vet, it is amazing.
Here are dated pics of the progress.

Wow that is crazy!

[astra]

For the first time today I don't feel hopeless and panicked.:Love_Icon
:grouphug :grouphug

[Orphan Mom]

They are on nothing but FV formula now. They've been on the sulfa for 24 hours. And they've gotten Imodium three times today. How do they still diarrhea?!

Where is the pulling my hair out emoticon?

[astra]

just sent you a private message - please check:grouphug

[Rhapsody]

Hang in there......... the last patch of squirrels of mine that had cocci took an entire month to get through it, the smell, constant washing and bleaching every thing was no fun --but we got through because I knew we were in GOOD HANDS with the Wondeful People here @ TSB, and so will YOU!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

You are using Albon, it's not a fast to show results AB from my experience and reseach. The protocol is weeks.
And whatever you do, if the poops firm , stay on the meds, it'll come right back if you don't stay on the treatment plan.
Yes, bleach bleach bleach..
boil eating utensils, jars, bowls, syringes, nipples or use disposables etc.

They should regain some appetite within the first few days.
remember the probiotic.
Diarrhea is dehydrating...keep them plump and clean.
:grouphug

[redwuff]

Hey Orphan Mom, you are an angel. No advice, just cheerleading. Sending prayers and energy to you and your babies.

Trysh

[Orphan Mom]

THANK YOU! Encouragement and understanding is as helpful right now as advice.

Yes the worry, the smell and constant washing and cleaning are wearing me out.

Their appetites have returned, and they are playing again. So we are definitely making progress. I think Mindy's poop might finally be firming up, but it's so hard with two of them to tell for sure. I also worry that they'll just keep passing it back and forth.

Do you think I could let them have some block now? I'm also worried that they won't keep their teeth worn down while they're all liquid.

[Jackie in Tampa]

feed them!!!..yes!
give them what they normally would be eating..:thumbsup

[Orphan Mom]

Jackie, you just made Mork & Mindy the happiest skwerlz in all the land.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thumbsup

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

How is Mindy's booboo??

[Orphan Mom]

How is Mindy's booboo??

It's kinda hard to describe, but the skin all sort of smooshed down and started to heal up. The hole is probably 1/2", but it's really deep. When I have to give her (a million) baths right now I let it get wet so that the scab slides off and I alternate packing it with Neosporin and Silvadine (Dad's out of town, so no insulin).

After eating block today they are back to epic diarrhea. (Still feeling lots better though)

I would very much like to have the yippy skippy fun parts of squirrel babies right now and not so much of the gross barf gag parts TYVM :yuck

[Jackie in Tampa]

No baths, that spreads bacteria, syringe the wound clean with warm water/betedine flush.
Syringe her bottom with warm water flush, dab it dry..not wipe or rub..
I wouldn't use the Neo if you have SS.
SS is a far better AB and pain ointment in comparison.
I apply it twice a day to wound site.

All wounds weep...so oral hydration is a must..as long as she is taking her formula, that is hydrating. If she snubs the formula, go slow but be persistant. They must have nutrition to heal and thrive.:thumbsup

:poke Both sqs should be on the albon right?

can you run by me the way you prepared the meds?
the weight of both babies and the amount you are giving..
it's always best to double ck our math..:thumbsup
one decimal off can mean too much or not enough.
I assume other members are PMing you with off forum advise,
You can always sent Pms to admin, where they can help clarify and verify!:thumbsup
If they are getting scalded bottoms, use the SS on their bottoms too, but make sure their butts are DRY, we do not want to trap damp or bacteria under the ointment.

Please ask any questions you have..we are going to need pics of these two sweeties all the way to tree time!:Love_Icon

[Orphan Mom]

Jackie, I didn't even think about spreading the infection via bath. ACK! I just wanted to get those nasty butts and tales clean. Yes, their little butts are so soar. Getting them to take formula is nooooo problem. They love it. Mindy, especially, still really loves to be bottle fed :crybaby

The good news is that I think I might be able to get some Septra this week. Cross your fingers and pray! :bowdown

[Orphan Mom]

tales

That would be "tails" not "tales." Good grief. Have I mentioned that I'm an English teacher?

[island rehabber]

That would be "tails" not "tales." Good grief. Have I mentioned that I'm an English teacher?

:jump it's the internet! I was an English major and a spelling bee champ -- now I post things like "your not gonna like this..." :shakehead

[patjones]

:jump it's the internet! I was an English major and a spelling bee champ -- now I post things like "your not gonna like this..." :shakehead
You both missed the flying butts and I am a high school drop out LOL. Great job with the babies Orphan Mom I love to watch these threads where the babies get better.

[Orphan Mom]

You both missed the flying butts and I am a high school drop out LOL. Great job with the babies Orphan Mom I love to watch these threads where the babies get better.

Wow. Took me a minute... :Stooges

Holy carps. I really did that. :owned


:nurse They are feeling enough better that they really arguing :argue with each other today. Guess that's a good sign!

[patjones]

Wow. Took me a minute... :Stooges

Holy carps. I really did that. :owned


:nurse They are feeling enough better that they really arguing :argue with each other today. Guess that's a good sign!
Glad you have an awesome sense of humor I love you babies

[Orphan Mom]

Got some Septra today! Gave them a loading dose tonight. OK, all of you send all of your prayers, positive thoughts, and healing juju Mork and Mindy's way!

ETA: They seem lethargic again today -- no playing & no arguing. And they hadn't eaten their block. :( So I'm really grateful that I got the Septra today.

[Orphan Mom]

24 hours on Septra and still diarrhea. Now mucousy and bloody.

I feel so helpless.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

OH NO.... So frustrating!!!!

My baby has no bladder control and pees on himself.. I had to wait 9 days before Dr got meds to me for urinary tract infection..by them he had very urine burn blisters that just got awry from me, I have to bath him 2 times a day
and he fights me tooth and nail, (bites the crap out of me when he can) It has been a month and he still has blisters but they are finally getting better, so I know how hard it is to have something wrong with your babies and feeling helpless. Do what the people on here tell you, they know, give it a chance to work, it make take another day or two to flush everything out, hang in there, we are rooting for you and your babies...

[Jackie in Tampa]

only have a second, but wanted to let you know, septra, is slow med,
very slow but very thorough!
..you must do a full course , 14 day treatment..it'll come back otherwise..
it's a gentle on the tummy med and it's usually sweet!
twice a day!
wash evrything well.:thumbsup
I know it's a mess...:shakehead :grouphug

[Orphan Mom]

OK that makes me feel a little better. I don't know why, but I had gotten the impression that it worked really quickly.

::deep breath::

OK. I can do this...

SSM, I know what you mean. M&M's little butts are SO scalded and sore and now they have bald patches on the undersides of their tails. Poor babies!

[Jackie in Tampa]

where are you at in Ark orpans mom?
I am from LR!:thumbsup

[Orphan Mom]

Little Rock! What are you doing here?! How long will you be here?

[Jackie in Tampa]

Little Rock! What are you doing here?! How long will you be here?No I am from ark, I am in Tampa...:thumbsup
are you in LR?

[Orphan Mom]

Sorry. I don't reed gud.

Yes, I live in LR :)

[Jackie in Tampa]

my papaw lives near ashley and university??
does that sound right?
old Jewish country club near him...:thinking

i have family in delight, pine bluff, hot springs, and little rock:)

[Orphan Mom]

my papaw lives near ashley and university??
does that sound right?
old Jewish country club near him...:thinking

i have family in delight, pine bluff, hot springs, and little rock:)

Asher and University. Yes I know just the neighborhood you're talking about. Small world!

[Orphan Mom]

My little M&Ms are finally started to really act like squirrels! I can't tell for sure, but I think their diarrhea may be gone! I will do another thorough cage cleaning tomorrow (I'm a bad mommy, but I'm just too exhausted to do it tonight), and then I think I'll be able to tell. I guess I'll wash their little butts then too. They're just so chapped that they cry when I do it. I've got some Desitin around here that should help.

Mindy's wound is just about closed. The hole is tiny but still deep, but you can't even see it unless you dig around in her fur for it.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

OK that makes me feel a little better. I don't know why, but I had gotten the impression that it worked really quickly.

::deep breath::

OK. I can do this...

SSM, I know what you mean. M&M's little butts are SO scalded and sore and now they have bald patches on the undersides of their tails. Poor babies!

I use A&D ointment, not cream on Simons butt, he has no bowel control and some times it gets packed, this keeps things soft , I also put it on his underbelly skin to keep urine off him so he isnt burned from urine, try some of that it will protect the skin

[Orphan Mom]

I use A&D ointment, not cream on Simons butt, he has no bowel control and some times it gets packed, this keeps things soft , I also put it on his underbelly skin to keep urine off him so he isnt burned from urine, try some of that it will protect the skin

Oh duh! Why haven't I been putting stuff on their little butts all along as a preventative? Sometimes I'm such an idiot. :bricks

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Oh duh! Why haven't I been putting stuff on their little butts all along as a preventative? Sometimes I'm such an idiot. :bricks
No:nono you are not an idiot, sometimes we overthink and worry and just miss the simple logical answers, it is just part of being a sqammy. Keep up the good work.:thumbsup

[Orphan Mom]

I celebrated too soon. Still diarrhea.

UGH WHEN WILL THIS END?!
(Let me once again put in a bid for the 'tearing your hair out' emot)

In all seriousness, they've been on Septra for three days; should the diarrhea be gone yet? Is it time to add some Benebac? I hadn't done it yet because I didn't want the Septra workiing on the Benebac instead of the cocci.

[Jackie in Tampa]

septra is a slow to show...treatment is 14 days, no matter what you see..14 days..coccidia is notorious to re occur.
i use yogurt in my formula...for septra, i wouldn't think you need anything else, it's really gentle.:thumbsup
hang in there..:thumbsup :bowdown

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

How are things going to night??

[jo_schmoe]

Just remember coccidia is really stubborn...it took our dog almost a month to have normal stools again. Just keep up with the ABs....and seriously try some silvadine on the scalds. That stuff is like gold....:thumbsup

[redwuff]

Hey Orphan Mom, Time for another cheerleading post.

You are magnificant. Once those little demons get back their squirrelness and are hell bent for leather (whatever that means) you will not remember this at all. You are doing great.

Trysh

[island rehabber]

:goodpost
Hang in there, Orphan Mom! You've got the meds, now just let them do their work. We're all behind you, mamma! :grouphug

[Orphan Mom]

THANKS! You guys are so awesome.

I feel like such a whiner. They are definitely getting better. They want to get out of their cage and play and have ear snuzzles and belly rubs now, and that's a big improvement. It's just hard to want to do that when they leave diarrhea all over me :yuck

I'm just tired of cleaning and ...well cleaning.

Also, I took all 4 dogs to the vet today & put down over $600. And then I spent an hour dosing and treating and cleaning dogs...

[redwuff]

:wave123 You are not whining, just stating the facts. Coccidia is a very tough experience to go through. It takes a lot of diligence and something akin to OCD to keep everything as clean as it needs to be. And you have other critters to be concerned about. :osnap

So take it easy on yourself and if you need to vent, we are here to hold you.

We are all glad that we are not having to do it with our babies.

[redwuff]

Hi Orphan Mom,

How is everyone doing?

[Orphan Mom]

Thanks for asking. I was just about to get on with an update and to ask for more advice.

I am out of Septra. They were on for 10 days. They still have diarrhea. I am still having to give them Imodium, and it doesn't even completely stop the diarrhea. What next?

ETA: They do seem to feel fine now. Very active and eating everything.

[Jackie in Tampa]

please stop the immodium..I wish this board would stop advising everyone to use it..
get more meds!
Dogs carry coccidia and usually show no symptoms..
everything must be kept clean, as in bleached..constantly..
I feel for you..not sure if I posted here, but a few years ago, a few sqs came in with coccidia..vet insisted I use albon..bummer..
before it was over I had 40ish sqs on SMZ-TMP.. can you imagine..I have never been the same since..I aged that winter and I learned alot about contageous and bleach and bad butt bugs..
I spent a fortune..hundreds...I demanded SMZ-TMP after that and never recommend albon since..
slimy poop was everywhere..
my wash machine did not stop..
I feel for you..
get more meds!
Get plenty as you may have to redose them..well you do..
I would def keep them on it longer this time too, 14 days as a minimal, it's safe long term.
Yogurt...not immodium.
Immodium long term does more damage than good...
it will tear up some intestines...then nothing gets absorbed...you are feeding for nothing..
no nutrition etc..
bad news..it's a mask, not a fix.
very possible urinary retention too.
It dehydrates and you are already dealing with dehydration from the on going diarrhea...
:soapbox immodium is not a fix...
this is a protozoa...not loose stool from too many beers!:osnap

[Orphan Mom]

Yeah I know Imodium doesn't fix anything. I was just trying to keep them from pooping out every single nutrient I got in them. :dono

You do know that Septra is the brand name for SMZ-TMP, right?

Obviously I'm going to have to get in to see that wildlife vet. I really am trying to keep a job while I'm taking care of squirrels. I don't think the parents of many AP high school students would be very understanding about the teacher missing classes this close to the end of the year, in the middle of Julius Caesar and research papers, to take care of squirrels. :hidechair

OK, let's think...

I have a 4 ft cage and I put the Carefree litter in the bottom. Should I get rid of all litter for now? Put down pee pads instead? I guess I could get a second cube so that even if I'm too exhausted to wash, dry, & replace the bedding all in one night I could swap out the clean one every night. I already replace their dishes every night.

I have a whole tree limb in there covered in leaves for them to play, climb, and hide in. Am I going to have to get rid of all that?

I guess I'm a bad person, but I am too exhausted at the end of every day to do a full pull everything out, wash the entire inside/outside of the cage down with bleach cage cleaning every day after work.

I can NOT imagine having 40 squirrels with diarrhea. :bowdown

[Jackie in Tampa]

Bactrim, septra , sulfa trim, smz-tmp...all the same

dawn dish liquid wipe down...listerine spritz...
all good quick non rinse fixes..
as long as the syringes and nips are super clean...just don't want you to re infect..
I do understand..I am a mess always...but the sqs are good!:rotfl

newspaper will work...carefresh is sorta expensive to change out..
I use newspaper and fleece..
it was a b----!:shakehead
spritz the water bottle and feeding areas....and treat the dog too..

it'll get better..
:thumbsup
oh...somewhere on TSB is somethiing about puppy pee pads killing animals...???
:dono

[Orphan Mom]

dawn dish liquid wipe down...listerine spritz...
all good quick non rinse fixes.. as long as the syringes and nips are super clean...just don't want you to re infect..

Good ideas. Thanks! How do you keep your syringes and nipples clean? I put them in some soapy water and basically leave them in the soap water until the next feeding, but I would love to know a way to get them/keep them cleaner. Maybe keep them in a Listerine solution?


carefresh is sorta expensive to change out..
oh...somewhere on TSB is somethiing about puppy pee pads killing animals...???

You aren't kidding. It's not so bad when you're only have to change the litter every couple of weeks (which is one reason I really like it -- it really does absorb peepee odor and keep the cage clean), but this is a whole different deal.

Yes, I read that. My understanding was that the puppy pads were dangerous to wee little ones that were lying directly on the pads, which were in the bottom of a container, on top of a heating pad. Like the heating pad turned the peepee smell into fumes. Judging from that I figured the pads being in the bottom of cage of big kids would be okay.

As far as treating the dogs, here's another bit of information. We just had the dogs all checked and treated for all their yearly stuff. They would've found cocci in the parasite check, right? They did, however, all test positive for hookworms :yuck for the first time ever. This whole diarrhea thing couldn't be hookworms could it? For a while, the squirrels and my dachshund played together. I don't let them do that anymore (which is sad because they had so much fun) because I figure that's where the cocci came from originally.

[CritterMom]

Regarding the pee pads - it is something inside the pad that is the issue - similar to that weird stuff that is inside diapers now. I would put something down for padding that can be easily washed - fleece - whatever, and buy some of those super cheap store brand paper towels that come in skids at the grocery store. Easy to grab and crumple and discard and replace, and very absorbent.

[Orphan Mom]

Didn't give them any Imodium today. Just tried to take them out for some play and snuzzle time, and they both left a nasty trail of poop all over me.

:carzy2 :Cry :hissyfit I am SO tired of this!!!!!!!!! whinecrystomp :frustratedx :bricks :hurt :madd :help


:surrender:surrender:surrender:surrender:surrender

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I know it must be frustrating, i am dealing with urine blisters that all of a sudden blew up and I have been treating them with EVERYTHING going on 6 weeks now, poor little guy, he starts to look better than next day he is raw hamburger again. I feel your pain, just think how they feel!!:poke poor babies, it will go away ay some point.

[Orphan Mom]

Yeah I've been watching your posts on that. Poor things -- Both of you.

As much as I get sick of the cleaning and the smell, I think what I hate most is that it keeps me from getting to really enjoy them for the short time that I have them.

I tell you what, I have hated dealing with coccidiosis in chickens and guineas, much less in squirrels living in the house. It is almost certain death to new chicks. You would think someone could come up with a reliable cure for it! Damn protozoa b*******!

[SammysMom]

I think that you do NOT want to use pee pads. If I am not mistaken, they have an "attractant" or something in them that is very bad in the event it is chewed. I am really almost positive that there have been several warnings here somewhere that say not to use them for any reason.
I am so sorry to hear you are having this awful issue. Had it in a cat rescue facility once with 50 +/- kittens and I know it ain't pretty!!! And the smell will knock you over! Sure hope they are feeling better soon!

Check this out from IR...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30460&highlight=puppy+pads

[HRT4SQRLS]

Orphan Mom
Wow, sounds like quite a mess you have there (literally). I'm going to throw this out there and let the 'experts' sound in because I am definitely NOT an expert.

As you have already discovered, Septra is not a cidal (killing) drug for coccidia. It inhibits reproduction and therefore interrupts the life cycle of the organism. By reducing the organism load you eventually reduce the population to sub-clinical levels and the diarrhea stops and a balance is achieved. The coccidia probably remains but doesn't cause symptoms.

One of the problems is the highly resistant phase of the coccidia called the oocyst. The oocyst is passed in the stool and is highly resistant to disinfection, including, in some cases bleach. From what I read, 10% ammonia (10 minutes), steam or boiling water are effective for killing oocysts on environmental surfaces. RIGHT, that certainly would be difficult in a cage. This is just my though, but I will throw it out there. Treatment with a static drug (not cidal) for 14 days coupled with disinfection that is difficult, to put it mildly, would make this an extremely frustrating experience. It sounds like that is where you are at!

This is where I would like to hear the experts sound in. Does anyone out there have any experience with ponazuril (Marquis/Bayer)? I have been studying about it. It is for treating coccidia in horses. It is also used for dogs and cats. I did find references for its successful use (off-label of course) for treating coccidia in squirrels. The great thing about it is that it is a cidal (killing) drug and only requires 3-5 days treatment. I also found a reference for its use in lab rats but I would need to go to the library to read it. (Journal of Parasitology 2004:90 639-642)

Has anyone used this? Do we have any cases on TSB that were treated with ponazuril? The one drawback I found was cost. It is expensive. The cheapest I found it online was $50 for a 30 ml bottle. It does require a prescription and that might be a problem. I'm not usually a 'cowboy' out there trying the off label stuff but if I was up to my armpits in nasty squirrel poop I might consider it. SO, I am throwing this out there for discussion. Any ideas?

OrphanMom, I definitely understand where you are coming from in terms of coming home from work exhausted. Then having to come home to battle this problem. Honey, I feel for you! You ARE doing a good job with what you have. It just seems to me that there HAS to be a better way.

Any takers for discussion? I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS TREATMENT, just would like to hear what others think!

[Orphan Mom]

This is just what I was talking to my husband about. I told him (he's getting a degree in biology) that if he wants to make a million dollars, he should come up with a cidal treatment for cocci. Every kind of pet and livestock owner has to fight losing babes to it.

I would be very interested to see if anyone knows anything on the subject. And it's definitely something that I would bring up to the wildlife vet when I finally get in there.

[Orphan Mom]

It is expensive. The cheapest I found it online was $50 for a 30 ml bottle.

Oh I am so there. If it worked, I couldn't whip out the debit card fast enough.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh I am so there. If it worked, I couldn't whip out the debit card fast enough.
:jump :jump :jump :jump :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

[mpetys]

Thank you H4S for suggesting this. I found a few threads which discusses it here:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=735130&highlight=ponazuril#post735130. This was in reference to rabbits

And
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=589013&postcount=7

Actually, post #1 in this last thread starts out by asking about Baycox:

Baycox for Coccidia?
Has anyone used Baycox for Coccidia? If so, what's the dosage? I've heard that you only need to administer it twice and the Coccidia is gone. Sounds promising, but I'd like to know if anyone else has used it and your experience with it. Thank you!

And recently, psycobird started a thread about Baycox (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33523&highlight=Baycox) and how quickly it got rid of coccidia in her bird. She posted:

just wanted to share with you all that i tried baycox for my crow who had a heavy load of coccidia
just had him rechecked yesterday and it was cured with 2 doses of it
if you can afford it, i think it is definatly worth it
instead of having to dose them everyday for 3 weeks it a 1-2 doses and thats it!
just grab the link for you and it's on sale
http://www.horseprerace.com/bayerbay...lepm-p-29.html


I usually have between 20 and 30 squirrels in my care and a coccidia outbreak like this scares me. After reading psychobird's post, I plan on buying some to have on hand. Has anyone else used Baycox or ponazuril?

[Orphan Mom]

Actually, I do remember reading about this on TSB! At the time, I called Tractor Supply and the co-op here, and neither carried it, but I am MORE than willing to order it. I had completely forgotten.

Another note: No Imodium today and M&M have gone back to listless and not eating -- of course this is also the first (second?) day without Septra.

I wonder if Kaopectate(sp?) would at least soothe their little tummies.

[psychobird]

Hi, here's a post I put up a little while ago about baycox
It isn't cheap, but it works!
Has to be ordered online as far as I know
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33523

[Orphan Mom]

I ordered it.

At this point if there is something that will really work, especially if it will work fast, I am SO willing to throw money at this problem to make it go away.

:wallet

[Goobertoast]

I do not envy you in the slightest. I think I would have lost my mind. I've had my little baby girl Skiaura for three weeks and it seems like every week I have a new obstacle to overcome but thanks to my hubby's support and all the great info on this forum Skiaura is thriving and in three weeks gone from a hairless, toothless 25g to having bottom teeth, being furry, about to open her eyes 78g. I just can't thank y'all enough for all the great and accurate info about how to take care of her. She makes it so hard to not get attached and want to keep her.

Keep up the good work, with patience the cute squirrel baby activity will make all this bad memories

Sorry for rambling this is my first squirrel baby and I'm not use to such short naps for three weeks.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I love Bayer..great company...
my gut is i would not use this on my sqs
ponazuril
it's once a day for 28 days..yikes
and it comes in 4 barrels of meds for a 1200 pound horse..
dose that! yikes..

I am not so sure I want to kill anything in my sqs that is natural..
and can be controlled with simple ABs..

I am researching both suggestions..
not knocking either idea...
city girl..
these farm animal cures are not something city vets work with on a daily basis...I would guess...none of my many vets have ever mentioned anything like these treatments..:dono

I am gonna stand back and try to learn something:wave123

[island rehabber]

I wonder if Kaopectate(sp?) would at least soothe their little tummies.

Just my .02? I love to use the Kaopectate, just a drop once a day, to stop everything up. I KNOW....it doesn't cure a damn thing, but it gives those poor little hinies a rest and gives the body a chance to re-hydrate, which takes care of the listlessness. :thumbsup

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thanks for sounding in mpetys and JIT.

OrphanMom,
I wanted to restate that I am NOT recommending this treatment but I definitely want to hear what others think. I AM a person that believes in doing my OWN research. I would DEFINITELY run this by the wildlife vet before I gave it to a squirrel.

[SammysMom]

Just checking to be sure the pee pad info didn't get lost in the AB shuffle. You do NOT want to use these in her cage! See below:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30460&highlight=puppy+pads

[Orphan Mom]

HRT's post got me to thinking -- the lifecycle coccidia, and the treatment of the results versus the organism itself. So I feel like it's time to do a different approach or to hit it from more than one direction.

So, using my husband's university access to scientific paper databases :thumbsup , I found a scientific paper yesterday that reported the findings of ponazural treatment versus traditional sulfa treatment in rabbits, and the results were much better for ponazural. This was a very badly translated paper from the original Chinese. Or it was written in bad English by a Chinese scientist. (This is really common, btw. My husband has fits.) So just the basic results is really all I was able to suss out.

The drawback is twofold. The report was about coccidia counts and didn't discuss effects on the rabbits. The other drawback is that ponazural is prescription only, and if a vet isn't familiar with it, then whether or not it's good is moot.

Now Baycox is toltrazuril, not ponazural; though obviously they are related. One critical difference here, however, is that toltrazuril has been around longer, and using my google fu I have found many rabbit forums where people talk about using it for rabbits. I feel pretty good about using something for squirrels that it safe for bunnies. The one thing I found is a warning that it's pretty alkaline, so they recommend dosing it with Coke to balance the PH. That came from a veterinary student. The one common side effect of the toltrazuril is loss of appetite. Fortunately I haven't weaned M&M. They love the bottle and love formula still, so I think I can get them through a few days.

Psychobird was kind enough to give dosage amounts for squirrels in her post. She also mentioned that she knows rehabbers that use it regularly.

Since it is a 3 day treatment that could possibly do what two other treatments haven't done, and since I have found a good deal of anecdotal evidence to support its use i small mammals -- even squirrels specifically -- I feel like I have to try.

Now here's where I probably am going to get some real disagreement. My gut tells me that I should do a combination toltrazuril and trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (Septra) because they treat differently and treat different elements of the coccidiosis. So I went looking to see if I was just off the wall here. I have found a scientific paper describing this very treatment for a puppy, and it was successful. I am not too far into the research on this approach, but I'm continuing to look.

[Jackie in Tampa]

HRT4SQS is very smart..she knows bacteria and hands on daily..
I would def look into it..:poke we want to know what dose you use.
I am dependant on my vets for info..and the vet I hhave been using for the last few years is a domestics. Not even exotics..she's smart but we use IVIS all the time..maybe I am just too traditional/bok bok..
Jodi too, she rehabs everything..

[Orphan Mom]

Well Jackie, I'm also lucky in that I have my own in-house biologist (one class from graduation at 50 years old :alright.gif ). He's really helping me in understanding how this all works and in understanding these papers :thinking :skwredup

[Jackie in Tampa]

:rotfl I found a horse dose..5mg/kg
what was the rabbit dose?

[Orphan Mom]

:rotfl I found a horse dose..5mg/kg
what was the rabbit dose?

Oh. Oops.

Toltrazuril 25 mg/kg once daily first 2 days, repeat after 2 days.

So for a 150 g squirrel, we're talking 3.75 cc.

Different sites recommend the repeating at different intervals. I've seen anywhere from 2 to 7 days. :thinking

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

I used this site because it broke it down per kg instead of saying "for an average 6 lb rabbit..." or "for a 1 lb rabbit..."

[HRT4SQRLS]

:o Thanks JIT, that a real compliment coming from you!

This is what I was hoping for.:D IMO TSB at it's finest--discussing a problem from different points of view. We even have an English teacher doing scientific research. I am loving that. Psychobird, thanks for your valuable input.:thumbsup

In my studies, I also came across the Baycox (toltrazuril)--and yes it is in the same class as ponazuril. I guess it is available without a prescription. I am very happy to see you researching this OM. I bet biology major hubbie is enjoying the scientific investigation. One issue with any drug is side effects and toxicity. Because it HAS been used before in squirrels, I hope that has been addressed. I will continue looking but I haven't come up with any info on that yet.

JIT brought up an issue in her 1st post about eradicating (killing as opposed to suppressing) something that is 'naturally' present in wildlife. This is my thought on it. I am going on the assumption that all mammals are similar in that they have usual flora associated with all mucous membranes (GI tract,respiratory tract & genital tract). Yes, the flora does vary from species to species and even individual to individual. Also, yes, good bacteria are present and serve a role in maintaining health. I don't think protozoa fall into this category. People don't carry protozoa. There are a few non-pathogenic amoeba that some humans (not many) carry as part of their usual flora. Just because most squirrels carry coccidia, I don't think they need it. It would be interesting to know if healthy squirrels carry antibodies to coccidia. I would guess that they do. I would be interested to know what others think about this.

Last thought, about dosing the toltrazuril with septra :thinking . It is up to you of course, but personally, I would not. I would be concerned about multiplying side effects. To me it is a little different than stacking antibiotics. My opinion is that the toltrazuril or ponazuril will work--I just worry about the side effects. I wouldn't want to overwhelm those tiny kidneys. Also, in science, you don't change too many parameters at the same time. By using both, I think you are doing that. JMO.

Wow hubbie graduating at 50:thumbsup :multi

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh. Oops.

Toltrazuril 25 mg/kg once daily first 2 days, repeat after 2 days.

So for a 150 g squirrel, we're talking 3.75 cc.

Different sites recommend the repeating at different intervals. I've seen anywhere from 2 to 7 days. :thinking

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

I used this site because it broke it down per kg instead of saying "for an average 6 lb rabbit..." or "for a 1 lb rabbit..."
------------------------------------------------------------
Better check that math- 3.75 cc is a lot. Doesn't sound right to me.

[HRT4SQRLS]

WHOA NELLIE, Now I'm talking like JIT. That is NOT 3.75 cc--it is 3.75 mg.

Based on Psychobirds dosing from the mammal book at 20mg/kg I came up with 3 miligrams for a 150 gram squirrel. Per PB concentration 5% is 50 mg/ml I divided 3mg/50mg=0.06 ml. That is approximately 1 drop. (a free failing drop is approximately 0.05ml).

That sounds more reasonable to me. Anybody else on the math?

Now my brain is smokin'!

[Orphan Mom]

WHOA NELLIE, Now I'm talking like JIT. That is NOT 3.75 cc--it is 3.75 mg.

Based on Psychobirds dosing from the mammal book at 20mg/kg I came up with 3 miligrams for a 150 gram squirrel. Per PB concentration 5% is 50 mg/ml I divided 3mg/50mg=0.06 ml. That is approximately 1 drop. (a free failing drop is approximately 0.05ml).

That sounds more reasonable to me. Anybody else on the math?

Now my brain is smokin'!

Yes mg not cc. And I definitely will be getting EVERYbody to check my math before I go dosing anybody!!!!! There is a REASON I am an English teacher!

[Orphan Mom]

Here is the info on how toltrazuril works:


Toltrazuril belongs to the chemical group of “symmetric triazinons” and is not chemically related to any other anticoccidial drug currently used in veterinary medicine. This is a 5% solution.

Due to its particular mode of action, which affects all intracellular structures of Coccidia, Toltrazuril demonstrates very high efficacy, as shown by the following benefits:



Coccidiosis: Coccidiosis is an infection of intestinal epithelium caused by protozoan parasite of family Eimeriidae.



All livestock species, as well as wild animals, can be infected. Coccidiosis is especially prevalent when birds or mammals are grouped together. Coccidia oocysts are highly resistant to environment conditions, and disinfectants, making coccidiosis control difficult.



Coccidiosis is characterised by an invasion of the intestinal wall by the Coccidia parasite. The parasite then goes through several stages of growth and multiplication, during which damage occurs to the mucosal and submucosal tissues of the intestine.

Depending on the Coccidia strain involved and the animal species affected, the disease complexes can range from subclinical infections to infections that include severe intestinal problems with severe lesions in the gastrointestinal tract, to diarrhoea that can result in high mortality and/or a negative impact on the factors of production.



For the aforementioned reasons, several research institutes have put a great deal of effort into developing different options for controlling coccidiosis. Baycox (toltrazuril), which represents one of the most efficient ways to control and prevent coccidiosis in various animal species.

Toltrazuril demonstrates powerful anticoccidial activity against different stages in the life cycles of the various Eimeria spp. of birds and mammals. It has produced excellent results in therapeutic and metaphylactic programs for a range of animal species.



Toltrazuril - Mode of Action -Toltrazuril damages all intracellular development stages of Eimeria (= Coccidia). Toltrazuril affects schizonts, micro- and macrogametes, but not the tissue cells of the host animals, as was shown in light and electron microscopic studies.



These findings suggest that toltrazuril interferes with the division of the nucleus and with the activity of the mitochondria, which is responsible for the respiratory metabolism of Coccidia.

In the magrometes, toltrazuril damages the so-called wall-forming bodies. In all intracellular developmental stages, severe vacuolisation occurs due to inflation of the endoplasmatic reticulum.



Toltrazuril thus has a coccidiocidal mode of action.



The special mode of action results in the following advantages:

* Toltrazuril acts on all intracellular developmental stages,

* Toltrazuril does not interfere with the development of immunity

*follow-up treatment usually is not necessary

*even an advanced infection (after 3 – 5 days; gametogony) can still be treated successfully,

*the efficacy of Toltrazuril is independent of the severity of the infection.

[Orphan Mom]

HRT

I agree that I will not stack the two types of treatments. They both target different processes, so it wouldn't be like double dosing in that regard. However, I would definitely be afraid their little livers couldn't metabolize all that at one time.

I do think there might be some applications of using both for livestock however. I mean, just as a point of interest. I think if I had a flock of infected chickens or a bunch of sick kids (the goat kind, not the human kind) I might consider approaching it from both directions.

And YES I appreciate having a group of intelligent open-minded people working together to problem-solve. :grouphug (<--that's a huddle, not a hug) Double checking each other, pointing out flaws, finding appropriate research, offering anecdotal evidence. I LIKE smart people.

[Orphan Mom]

The Baycox arrived in the mail today. OK guys help me with my math.

Toltrazuril 25 mg/kg

Mork weighs 213 g, and Mindy weighs 206 g.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I see the dose is 25mg/kg
(did PB say it was 20mg/kg?)
and the sqs weights are 213 and 206 grams..:thumbsup

but what is the strength of the med?
is it tablet?
liquid?
I am blonde..did you already post the strength?:thinking

[Orphan Mom]

I see the dose is 25mg/kg
(did PB say it was 20mg/kg?)
and the sqs weights are 213 and 206 grams..:thumbsup

but what is the strength of the med?
is it tablet?
liquid?
I am blonde..did you already post the strength?:thinking

50 g/l -- so 5% solution.

[psychobird]

Okay the 5% is 50mg/ml
Dose 20mg/kg
So
They both get one dose of 0.08 ml/cc

[Orphan Mom]

Okay the 5% is 50mg/ml
Dose 20mg/kg
So
They both get one dose of 0.08 ml/cc

OK, this is the same dosage that HRT came up with. I feel pretty confident now.

How did you deliver the medicine when you used it? I read that it is pretty alkaline, and the disposal instructions are pretty O_O So I don't think a direct dose sounds like a good idea.

I was thinking of adding it to the 10 cc syringe full of FV. Other ideas?

[psychobird]

I like direct dosing I want to know they got it all
You can repeat in 7 days too

[Orphan Mom]

I like direct dosing I want to know they got it all
You can repeat in 7 days too

You had no trouble with it burning their mouths or anything?

[Orphan Mom]

The stuff on the back has all these instructions about wearing gloves when using the medicine and all this stuff. :\

[psychobird]

Nope, but I dosed a crow, he was more pissed about me grabbing him than the meds
He didn't seem to be bothered after cept for his ruffles feathers

[Orphan Mom]

I put a little on my lip and it was fine. Not sure what all the warnings are about.

If I die later, I'll update you.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I put a little on my lip and it was fine. Not sure what all the warnings are about.

If I die later, I'll update you.:rotfl :osnap
I try everything before my sqs get it..
let me say in advance..DO NOT TASTE THE BAYTRIL...
I will testify it is yucky...no need to put your taste buds thru that! Har D har!

[psychobird]

:rotfl :osnap
I try everything before my sqs get it..
let me say in advance..DO NOT TASTE THE BAYTRIL...
I will testify it is yucky...no need to put your taste buds thru that! Har D har!
lol, me too jackie, baytril is nasty! birds don't care about sour thankfully

[Orphan Mom]

They have had two treatments now, and I came home to bloody diarrhea today. A good deal of it.

Thoughts?

P.S. -- M&M are acting like they feel like a million bucks.

[psychobird]

They were only suppose to get one dose and that's it for at least 7 days

[Orphan Mom]

The dosing I saw said one dose a day for two days, repeat in 7 days.

I also saw directions for three days, repeat in 7.

[psychobird]

In the mammal book it's sais one dose then repeat in 7 days
Birds are once a day for 2-3 days but they get a much lower dose
Sounds like its relatively safe
Where did you get ur dosing info from?

[Orphan Mom]

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

1 time for 2 days and repeat in 2 days.

[Orphan Mom]

So, does anyone have any thoughts about the bloody diarrhea.

[skippy]

Excuse me for butting in.
Just wanted to say that I use baycox for my guys with coccidia over the albon first, mainly because it works so quickly if that is the problem. If it doesn't clear it up then I switch to Albon.
I use liquid baycox that I give orally in the 1cc syringe, no diluting but you could chase it with their formula if you wanted to. Use it 1x a day for 3-5 days.
:bowdown You all are great with your math. :bowdown
For myself, who hated math, I fortunately have a dosage chart to follow from the wildlife vet just for the squirrels.
Baycox
This is for 25mg/ml form
20 grams .01
30 grams .01
40 grams .01
50 grams .01
60 grams .02
70 grams .02
80 grams .02
90 grams .03
100 grams .03
200 grams .06
300 grams .08
400 grams .11
500 grams .14
600 grams .17
700 grams .20
800 grams .22
900 grams .25
1000 grams .28

Have you considered using homeopathy for your squirrels?
You can use China or Symphytum 1M, 1xd for 3 days for bloody diarrhea.
www.atozhomeopathy.com 888-689-1608

Hope your seeing piles of gold in the near future. :)

[skippy]

Are you administering any pro-biotics? LA200 in the formula or bene-bac if they are weaned. That will help balance out their gut flora.
Give roughly the same amount of benebac as the amount of medication you are giving them. Just make sure it doesn't smell rancid. The oils if they get warm will turn rancid. Keep it in the fridge then fill a 1cc syringe with some to keep next to your feeding area.
Looking forward to hearing posts of improvement very soon. :)

[Orphan Mom]

Skippy this information is gold.

[Orphan Mom]

I washed the bedding last night, and as of 3:00 today there are no signs of blood. :alright.gif

Both are acting like they feel great. I just found a pile of wet but solid droppings. :jump

I put a dish of 1 cc of Benebac for Mork, and a dish of yogurt for Mindy. (Because Mork lovessss Benebac and hates yogurt; Mindy lovesssss yogurt and hates Benebac. Picky little snots.) I'm going to give them both a few cc's of pedialyte just to help replace some electrolytes.

Their little guts have to be trashed after all this. Fortunately Baycox has no adverse reaction and causes no sloughing of intestinal tissue. So we are now just trying to recover from the damage done by the coccidia itself.

Poor Mindy has been on antibiotics almost her entire life. Amox and Baytril for her cyst. Then Septra. Now Baycox.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I washed the bedding last night, and as of 3:00 today there are no signs of blood. :alright.gif

Both are acting like they feel great. I just found a pile of wet but solid droppings. :jump

I put a dish of 1 cc of Benebac for Mork, and a dish of yogurt for Mindy. (Because Mork lovessss Benebac and hates yogurt; Mindy lovesssss yogurt and hates Benebac. Picky little snots.) I'm going to give them both a few cc's of pedialyte just to help replace some electrolytes.

Their little guts have to be trashed after all this. Fortunately Baycox has no adverse reaction and causes no sloughing of intestinal tissue. So we are now just trying to recover from the damage done by the coccidia itself.

Poor Mindy has been on antibiotics almost her entire life. Amox and Baytril for her cyst. Then Septra. Now Baycox.
Mindy...boost her immune system with echinechia or add FV boost to her formula..ABs break it down horribly.
I use yogurt as a probotic for 10 years..alot of sqs pass thru Central.

[Orphan Mom]

Mindy...boost her immune system with echinechia or add FV boost to her formula..ABs break it down horribly.
I use yogurt as a probotic for 10 years..alot of sqs pass thru Central.

Good idea. I do worry about the longterm ramifications (for her in the wild) of having had her on ABs so long. I'll have to order the FV boost. But I would imagine there is no real urgency on that?

I do like to think, though, that she wouldn't have survived this long without my intervention. I would imagine that cyst would have done her in by itself.

[Orphan Mom]

OK... as my students would say, "the struggle is gettin real."

Mindy still really has diarrhea for sure. Not sure about Mork.

I was trying to give them a bath tonight. Trying to get their little butts clean. Mindy went fine. I got her butt all painted up. But for the first time Mork really bit me. Bit me so hard I was gushing blood. It still hurts so bad. And then he got away and i tried to grab him, and as I was trying to snatch him up I just missed and got his tail instead, and he yanked so hard it pulled the end of his tail off. No kidding. Off.

And right now I'm thinking I'm ready to open the door and let them go.

(Don't worry. I'm not going to. I'm just tired.)

[skippy]

Skippy this information is gold.
:) Hope it helps clear up any worries. Like I said though, everyone that has been helping you seems to be very good at converting the dosage. I hope it all works out well. :)

[jo_schmoe]

Orphan Mom....Coccidia is REALLY tough.
I can't speak from a squirrel stand point....but I can from a canine one.
My female Pyrenees came to us as a pup with Coccidia....something that was passed on by her mother. Horrible diarrhea....horrible! She was on Abs....seemed to clear it up for a bit....but not ever completely. The only thing that worked for us was a wormer ( parasite control) called Panacur. She is 3 now....and still on puppy food....as she just cant keep weight on. We are just now seeing her fill out to a normal weight....and the runny stools have stopped. She is dosed with the Panacur once every 3 months.....and on a high protein diet. But honestly...this battle with coccidia has taken almost 3 years to cure.

[mpetys]

Has there ever been an actual diagnosis of coccidia through a stool test or is it just assumed that this is coccidia? I'm wondering if it is possible that it could e something else.

[Jackie in Tampa]

get some flagyl/metronidazole..
it's going to be a wee bit hard on their G/I but it'll kick it!:thumbsup
I think the SMZ TMP would have worked, longer treatment was probably needed.
JMO.

[Orphan Mom]

Maybe it would've, but when you see something isn't working at all, and there is another treatment that experienced rehabbers are using that is supposed to work better and faster, it's worth trying.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Maybe it would've, but when you see something isn't working at all, and there is another treatment that experienced rehabbers are using that is supposed to work better and faster, it's worth trying. I agree totally.
I live in a state where anyone can get vet help for wildlife...
having a sq is NOT ILlegal, I have been rehabbing sqs for 2 months shy of 10 years..I have many vets...
so prescription meds is all I know..
I have never bought any thing on line etc..
I am sure there are several ways to approuch this.

wondering if the SMZ-TMP was outdated or exposed to high heat..
it has always worked for me...
I am always looking for alternate med ideas..I help alot of peeps worldwide where the laws are not so forgiving..
as a whole, TSB wants to learn...me included..
let us know what is working!:grouphug

[Orphan Mom]

I'm in a legal state, but there are no vets around here that treat. Well I found the one, but he did not impress me at all.

Also, now I've found a microbiologist. And she said that if the diarrhea doesn't clear up in a couple of days she'll take a look at their poop. :alright.gif

[skippy]

put a dish of 1 cc of Benebac for Mork,

Hi Orphan Mom:
I hope I didn't confuse you in my post about the benebac. I just fill a 1cc syringe and keep it next to where I feed and the rest of the tube in the fridge to keep it from going rancid.
When I give them their medicine I take that syringe and give them about the same amount of their medication dosage. A drop or two and let them lick it off the end of the syringe. I've never given it in a dish to eat freely. Too much pro-biotics can give them loose stool too and the benebac does have the fat in it.
I put LA200 in my formula as an ongoing supplement instead of yogurt and supplement with a dab of the benebac if they are taking AB's.
What a balancing act it all seems to be with each one being so different.
Best of luck.