Mr Chip Char is lethargic , please help .....

[aida]

Hi ,

Its a long time we have spoken . There is a problem i guess . Chip is lethargic since 1 day . He was not active as usual yesterday , i was quite and sat on me . I thought may be it is because of change in weather , actually in my country weather is changing from winter to summer . So i made him to go in bed last night and he slept after eating his usual cucumber , roasted corn and formula .

Today when he woke up this morning again he was slow , he ate his cucumber . He is drinking water , peeing and pooping fine now but two days bfore he had little thin poop but after that its fine as usual .

Right now he is sleeping .

What symptoms are these for ? He just completed his 1 year on 3 March 2012 . He is a little overweight i guess if you compare him with other outside squirrels . I will post a recent image of him .

Please suggest me .

[aida]

These are the pictures taken 2 days ago when he was normal .

[CritterMom]

He is adorable.

Please tell us exactly what he is eating.

If you have read other threads here, you know how important it is to keep enough calcium in his diet. Calcium and phosphorus are both important to them. You want to feed foods that are HIGHin calcium and LOW in phosphorus. Ideally you are feeding him twice as much calcium as phosphorus.

Corn is EXTREMELY high in phosphorus, and if he eats a lot of it, it is very hard to get enough calcium to counteract it. I do not feed any corn at all. If I were you I would quit feeding it. I would also boost his calcium - you can use a human calcium supplement to do so. If he is having an imbalance of these it may help.

Please outline his diet for us.

[aida]

Hi ,

Actually he is very choosy , or i can say he is rigid in what he eats , he eats only corn , solid food made from formula he used to eat through syringe when he was kid . And cucumber .

I give him cucumber , capsicum , green beans , tomato but he eats only a little cucumber and nothing else . I give him sometimes apple .

Sometimes he is aggressive and scratches us until and unless we feed him peanuts , walnuts . I also give him Puffed rice - ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffed_rice ) which he likes as much as he likes peanuts and walnuts .

I will stop feeding him corn from today completely .

Should i give him calcium supplement - http://www.strongandsolidbones.com/calciumsandoz/

[CritterMom]

Aida, I am trying to get ready for work and don't have a lot of time now - I am going to put a bunch of info up for you a little later today - our days and nights are almost flipped so you should see it tomorrow when you get up.

For now, start adding about 200mg of the calcium to his food. You will need to look at how much is in each of the pills and divide it accordingly - a little over or under is okay. You can grind it and put it in his food - there are even little squirrels who will just grab and eat the pills all on their own! Any way you can get it in to him is fine. Spread it out through the day if you can - don't give it to him all at once.

And before you log off, please tell us what it in the solid food made from his formula.:thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

The childrens calcium that you have shown has 250 mg a tablet..I would think that is a good suppliment, one each day.
I have squirrels that I give a calcium tablet to and they eat it themselves. Other squirrels I have to crush and sprinkle the tablet on their food.
And others I crush tablet and add it to their formula.

I agree with CritterMom, no more corn.
my squirrel liked corn too, it almost killed him 6 years ago. Corn will lead to Metabolic Bone Disease, crippling and seizure prone, eventually death.

He is so dern cute, I love his stripes...
hope that you can start offering a bigger variety and he finds other Healthy things he likes. If you continue to feed him what he wants, he will decline daily.

I am unsure the diet of a native Indian squirrel, but you can always reach out to Chickoo for veggie advise as to what's available and healthy where you are and what they like and naturally eat!
Keep us in the loop:thumbsup

I see Crittermom posted almost the same..she types faster! Great advise.

[aida]

ok i will not give him corn anymore . Can i give him yoghurt mixed with his formula ? I have pasted picture of contents of formula i use for him .

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have asked someone to let me know if the contents of this formula are sq friendly..will let you know when they do me.:thumbsup

yes you can add yogurt to his formula...
you can also stir dry formula mix into the yogurt if he doesn't like to be syringe fed a liquid or doesn't like to lap it from a bowl.

[Jackie in Tampa]

If he is truly lethargic, you need to crush a calcium tablet now and mix with water and syringe feed him..any calcium.
Corn is a serious no no...I hope Chip Char is still active and only getting used to the new weather.

[aida]

can you please tell me why the deficiency of calcium makes them lethargic ?

[CritterMom]

They need quite a bit of calcium in their diet. If they do not get enough, they will begin to pull the calcium out of their bones to make up for it. If this happens for a while, the bones get weak and brittle - like what happens to elderly women - and the lethargy comes from that. It is called Metabilic Bone Disease. Even if they are getting quite a bit of calcium in the diet, if they are eating foods that have a lot of phosphorus, like the corn (and the peanuts, too), the phosphorus is sort of cancelling out the calcium. A diet that may be just fine calcium wise can be deficient if there is a lot of phosphorus being fed.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

what she said, also they need vitamin D3 so they can absorb the calcium, they can eat calcium all day but with no D3 it does them no good.
you get D3 from the sun or from supplements.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Being lethargic also comes from just being weak in the bones and muscles, it usually comes on all of a sudden with no warning, which is why it is so crucial to get calcium in him , in high dosage as soon as possible!!!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

like CritterMom has said, the body starts to steal the calcium from the bones and blood first, then the organs, which is when true lethargy is apparant, then the body steals it's own last reserve, brain calcium, the final stage, seizures followed by death.
Diet is key to happy healthy life. Never feed your squirrel anything that is not good for them, their bellies are too little and need everything to be healthy... no room for junk food!
Corn is high phosphorus...when there is excess phosporus, the body cannot take in anything calcium...it rejects, overtakes and calcium is simply excreted thru waste. It will not be absorbed, so as much as they love corn, it is killing them.
If you can buy mushrooms at a market, they can help metabolize the calcium, increasing absorbtion and benefits increase too.
Most green leafy veggies will have an abudance of calcium, broccolli if you can get it is good source and is loaded with healthy vitamins.
Variety is key... I am not sure of your native sqs diets, so hoping Chickoo comes to this thread. She has great info to share!:thumbsup

[aida]

Jackie can you please confirm whether this is calcium which i can give him , its powder .

[CritterMom]

No, Aida, this is just Vitamin D. Can you get the calcium tabs you showed further up your post? The childrens is just the right size.

[aida]

Ok . I will get that .

[aida]

should i also give him this vitamin D for absorption of Calcium ? He hardly goes in sunlight .

[CritterMom]

There is vitamin D in his milk mix. Check the label when you buy the calcium - most of the time is has Vitamin D3 added to it. The site you posted a link to - Calcium Sandoz, says they sell a liquid version for children that has the Vitamin D3 in it but I can't tell if it is in the pills. They probably have many different brands at the store, so read the label and see. You do not need a lot of Vitamin D to utilize the calcium.

[island rehabber]

aida, you have gotten excellent advice here. All I can say is it's never too late to improve your squirrel's diet because diet is everything with squirrels! Get him on the calcium and D3 and you should see an improvement in his energy level.....in the meantime keep him away from the junk foods.

[fire-eyez]

Also limit the amount of cucumber it is really high in phosphorus

[CritterMom]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15397

Aida, in the first post on this thread are two documents. Open the first one and it has the calcium and phosphorus levels in many common foods. Don't worry about the numbers themselves. What you are looking for is a 2:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorus. So if the first number is close to or even more than twice the second number, that is a good food.

You don't need to get too crazy with this, just try to use it as a guide of what is good to try feeding him. If he likes one of the foods that is not as close to the 2:1 ratio, he can have it if he also eats some that are MORE than 2:1.

You will notice that dark green leafy vegetables are good for them. No nuts fall into the GOOD category but some are better than others. Can you buy almonds in India? They are MUCH better than peanuts or walnuts for treats.

[aida]

Can you please suggest tablet name for calcium , i purchased the calcium sandoz , it says on back that it contains some ayurveda things and there is no mention of calcium , what should i do . I purchased the same shown on the webpage of calcium sandoz for children . Please suggest

[aida]

This is Calcium sandoz for kids . Please tell me should i give him ?

[CritterMom]

I had to look that up. Can you list what is in the tablets - from the side of the bottle?

If I go to a drug store, they will have about 50 different kinds of calcium that is all basically the same stuff made by different companies. So I am not sure of what brands you have there.

Do you know if they sell antacids in India? In the US they sell Tums and Rolaids which are made of calcium.

[aida]

Another

[CritterMom]

God this is hard. I did some reading - Sandoz is in trouble for selling this stuff - it has NO calcium in it - that "Khatika curna" stuff is ground up bone powder.

The adult stuff seems to be calcium. You need to look on the label and find that word...

[aida]

Ohk , These people are so bad who mess with medicines , why they are so selfish . They should go to hell.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have heard back from a friend about the formula.
This is what she wrote.

Definitely needs the fat content increased & protein decreased. Assume this is liquid formula. Mix 2 parts formula; then make 1 part HALF yogurt and HALF heavy cream. That should make protein/fat roughly equal to FV 20/50. (this is the formula some rehabbers in the USA use)

The other nutrients I don't know as I haven't really studied that in baby formulas.
So, for example, if you're making up 300 g formula (by weight) that would come out to:

200g formula
50g yogurt
50g heavy cream

Can you get yogurt and heavy cream?

[CritterMom]

I have heard back from a friend about the formula.
This is what she wrote.

Definitely needs the fat content increased & protein decreased. Assume this is liquid formula. Mix 2 parts formula; then make 1 part HALF yogurt and HALF heavy cream. That should make protein/fat roughly equal to FV 20/50. (this is the formula some rehabbers in the USA use)

The other nutrients I don't know as I haven't really studied that in baby formulas.
So, for example, if you're making up 300 g formula (by weight) that would come out to:

200g formula
50g yogurt
50g heavy cream

Can you get yogurt and heavy cream?



Jackie, Mr. Chip Char is an adult. I believe Aida is using this formula to concoct a dry diet of some kind - I don't know the other ingredients. No rat block in India... I don't know if it makes a difference.

[astra]

Jackie, Mr. Chip Char is an adult. I believe Aida is using this formula to concoct a dry diet of some kind - I don't know the other ingredients. No rat block in India... I don't know if it makes a difference.
maybe, between the dry formula, yogurt, half-n-half and, maybe, some ground nuts, it might be possible to create something like BooBalls?...:dono :thinking

[aida]

Hi everyone ,
I have purchased a tablet which contains 500 mg calcium , brand is calcium sandoz for women .

I have also purchased a tablet which has calcium 1000 mg along with vit d3 , magnesium hydroxide .

What do u say ? Which one should i give and how much . I will post the pictures as soon as i reach home , right now in market .

[CritterMom]

Can you afford to get them both? The vitamin D and magnesium are really important for bone growth, but I am unsure of the amounts in your supplement. If you get both you can use one type one day and the other the next, switching back and forth.

You want to do about 250 mg, so that would be 1/2 of the 500mg tab and 1/4 of the 1000mg.

Spread the doses through the day, not just one big one once a day.

[aida]

Pics of medicine i bought

[aida]

This is calcium sandoz for women .

[CritterMom]

Start with tnhe calcium sandos. 250 mg will be 1/5 of a tablet (a liitle more or less is okay). I want to look in to the zinc on the other.

[aida]

I gave him 1/5 of the piece but he is not eating it . The sandz is 500 Mg calcium . Are you sure 1/5 of the tablet ?

[CritterMom]

Sorry, hard for me to read it. 1/2 a pill. You might have to dissolve and hide it in food or just squirt it in his mouth.

[aida]

Ok . I gave him sandoz 1/5 mixed with his solid food. He dint ate . I tried with syringe then also he refused . Now he ate a little solid food i prepared mixing sandoz , i think he is not eating it bcoz sandoz is strawberry flavour , should i try other tablet which is 1000 mg ?

[aida]

Can u tell me what are the symptoms of diabetes , he peed twice after i woke him up right now , he then drank water also . I am worried .

[aida]

Right now i am watching him , he used to be precise when he jumped , he was very active , he ran so fast . But now as i can see his jumps are like as he is a kid not so precise . He has trouble in climbing that frequently . And i also had to forcibly make him come out of bed , he was so reluctant to move , he was sleeping i guess in his bed inside the fleece .

He is weak . Are all these due to calcium deficiency or something else?

[island rehabber]

They can all very well be due to calcium deficiency -- those are all symptoms of MBD. :(

[CritterMom]

Aida, any way you can get the calcium into him, do. You may need to use tough love. If he doesn't like the flavor, try the other. One way or other, get 250mg of calcium into him today.

[aida]

Can u please tell me is it cureable ? Will he be alright ? I am panicky ......

[aida]

Should i give him the tablet picture i posted with 1000 mg calcium but it contains zinc and something else? Tell me .

[CritterMom]

Can u please tell me is it cureable ? Will he be alright ? I am panicky ......


Yes, absolutely. She needs the calcium. Try either one. The other might not have much taste. Do you have peanut butter or almond butter there? Maybe mix with peanut butter and roll into a little ball and offer that.

[Jackie in Tampa]

if you force him with a syringe, do not tilt him back...
hold him upright if he is dibilitated/exhausted
you must do this NOW.
He needs cacium NOW.
this is an emergency how to post found in the nutrition forum.

Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW.
Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:
Tums, rolaids, or calcium supplement (any kind)
a syringe or spoonCrush one pill and add a little water or fruit juice to make a paste. Use the syringe or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone.

After you give the initial dose of calcium, give 100 mg calcium every 4 hours. If symptoms return or do not improve, try dosing more often: every 3 hours. Severe cases may need 50 mg calcium every 2 hours.

Your squirrel's symptoms should improve within a few hours; within 1-3 days your squirrel should be alert, active, and eating, with no seizures or paralysis. You should be giving 500-600 mg calcium per day. Keep track of how many doses you give so you can adjust the dosage if needed. You should work with TSB members to do this.

Important!

Any kind of calcium pill is okay for the initial dose. But you must use PLAIN calcium carbonate (without Vit D) from then on.

Many small doses of calcium throughout the day/night are best to keep blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If symptoms worsen or return, give an emergency dose of 100 mg calcium, then consult with TSB members or a rehabber or veterinarian to adjust the dosing schedule. Relapses are very serious and often fatal.

White feces or a white film on dried urine may mean the dosage can be reduced, as this indicates not all of the calcium is being absorbed. It may also mean you need to give smaller doses more often.

The acute symptoms (weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis) will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones. (See the "Long-Term Treatment for MBD" below.)

More Tips

MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. You should pad the bottom of your squirrel's cage and keep him away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work. Squirrels with hind-end paralysis may benefit from gentle massage of the legs and hips.


Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats, including stashes.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found here: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=32046 (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32046) and on the Henry’s Healthy Pets website (http://www.henryspets.com/pages/Healthy-Diet.html). Your squirrel MUST eat rodent blocks or squirrel blocks every day (either 2 Henry's Healthy Squirrel Blocks per day, or a small handful of commercial rodent block per day). If you choose to feed commercial rodent blocks, which are extremely hard, you should crush them up with peanut butter, yogurt, fruit juice, avocado, baby food, etc., to make them easier to chew and improve the taste.

3. You will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for many weeks. You can use a syringe or spoon, or you can mix the calcium with a small amount of peanut butter, crushed nuts, yogurt, baby food, or any food the squirrel likes. An easy way to dose the calcium is to mix 500 mg of calcium powder with 1 tablespoon of peanut butter or other tasty food and roll it into 5 little balls; each ball will contain 100 mg calcium.

Calcium Dosage:

Continue to give 500-600 mg calcium per day for 1 week. Then try reducing the total daily amount by 50 mg. If the squirrel remains stable for 1 week, reduce the daily amount by another 50 mg. Continue this weekly reduction until the squirrel is only getting around 100 mg of extra calcium per day. Continue this for at least another 2 weeks. If at any time symptoms return, give an emergency 100 mg dose, then go back to a higher dosage for 1-2 weeks.

The treatment for each squirrel may be slightly different and you should work with a rehabber or TSB members to tailor the treatment to your squirrel's needs. Depending on the age of the squirrel, severity of disease, and other factors, your squirrel may need extra calcium for many months, perhaps for life.

Important Information
The MBD treatment is a "standardized" treatment that will get most cases on the road to recovery. But every case is different and the treatment should be customized to each squirrel. Severe cases sometimes need more aggressive treatment. There is a limit to how much calcium the body can absorb at one time, so lower doses of calcium given more often is the key with severe cases.

What is MBD?
Calcium is a very important nutrient. It strengthen the bones, but also plays a vital role in all body functions. Every cell in the body contains water plus small amounts of dissolved minerals such as calcium, sodium, magnesium, and potassium. These minerals allow the cells to transmit small electrical signals. Without this cell-to-cell communication, the organs can't function: your heart can't beat, your nerves can't transmit impulses; in fact, you would die.

When there isn't enough calcium in the diet, the body will dissolve the calcium from the bones and use that instead. This eventually causes the bones to become depleted of calcium. Eventually the bones become so depleted, there isn't enough calcium left to maintain sufficient calcium in the cellular fluids, and the organs can't function properly. This is what causes the symptoms of MBD: loss of appetite, lethargy, muscle pain, paralysis, seizures, and eventually death. Humans don't get this type of severe MBD, partly because our calcium requirement is lower and our bones are much bigger, allowing us to store more calcium.

By giving high doses of calcium orally, you are artificially maintaining your squirrel's blood calcium levels because his bones no longer contain enough calcium to maintain his calcium levels normally.

Once the emergency calcium is given, your squirrel's blood calcium levels should normalize fairly quickly. He should "bounce back" and act normal or almost normal. If you are still seeing symptoms such as seizures, loss of appetite, lethargy, or paralysis, the calcium levels may still be too low. This means the body will try to pull the remaining calcium from the bones, which means the MBD is actually getting worse. So stabilizing blood calcium levels is critical. The next step to actually curing the MBD is rebuilding bone. This is the part that takes a long time.

Stabilizing the blood calcium levels can and must be done quickly. In severe cases, calcium may be needed more often throughout the day and night, as often as every 2 hours.
________

[aida]

He came out in his cage right now , roamed a little climbed on the cage and then cleaned face .

I noticed something in his eyes . A little white fluid in the starting of eye . i have marked the portion in his pic . Pic is old just to show you where i saw white water in his eye .

[CritterMom]

Some people believe that this is a sign of discomfort.

For the next few days at least, try to keep Mr. Chip Char to where he isn't running around much. He needs to conserve his strength to get better and he could hurt himself. If this is what we think it is, his bones are more brittle than they should be. Cuddle him and pet him and let him have his goodies and things but no running around.

[aida]

Some people believe that this is a sign of discomfort.

For the next few days at least, try to keep Mr. Chip Char to where he isn't running around much. He needs to conserve his strength to get better and he could hurt himself. If this is what we think it is, his bones are more brittle than they should be. Cuddle him and pet him and let him have his goodies and things but no running around.

Let him have goodies ( are you talking about treats ? )

And ya i let him come out of cage to pamper him and cuddle him but then he gets scared and goes on to the edge of bed or some place else and sit quietly . From yesterday night i havent let him out of cage because i am scared coz he will jump and fall due to non- precision in his jumps anymore .

[Jackie in Tampa]

white tears are stress/pain...discomfort, yes.
I agree, thinking he needs calcium NOW.
you are smart to not allow him to jump:thumbsup
warmth will also help him feel better..

[CritterMom]

Try to get him to eat healthy stuff if you can. You are exactly right with him not jumping.

If this is MBD you have caught it pretty early. If that is his problem, you should start seeing improvement in a few days. That does NOT mean he is well though, and you are going to need to continue the calcium for a while. We need ya to stick around here and let us know how he is doing and what he is doing so we can help let you know when to start slowly decreasing the calcium.

No corn. No peanuts.

What are you adding to his formula to make up his diet?

[aida]

Try to get him to eat healthy stuff if you can. You are exactly right with him not jumping.

If this is MBD you have caught it pretty early. If that is his problem, you should start seeing improvement in a few days. That does NOT mean he is well though, and you are going to need to continue the calcium for a while. We need ya to stick around here and let us know how he is doing and what he is doing so we can help let you know when to start slowly decreasing the calcium.

No corn. No peanuts.

What are you adding to his formula to make up his diet?


I give this Formula , i take 1 tablespoon full of powder and add a little water to it making it solid ball , it takes a whole day or more than a day to finish .

right now i have added the tablet shown in picture with 1/4 of its part made as powder in the formula creating a solid ball .

Apart from this formula i usually give cucumber and tomato but he just eats the seeds of cucumber .


I would like to ask you some more , how can i find out that he is not diabetic ?

[aida]

I would also like add something to it - I give him this formula ball after every second day . Should i change it to everyday ?

[astra]

I would also like add something to it - I give him this formula ball after every second day . Should i change it to everyday ?
Have you seen one of recent Jackie's post with suggestions on how to improve formula?

[aida]

[QUOTE=astra]Have you seen one of recent Jackie's post with suggestions on how to improve formula?[/QUOTE

can you please provide me the link ........

[aida]

Have you seen one of recent Jackie's post with suggestions on how to improve formula?


I have heard back from a friend about the formula.
This is what she wrote.

Definitely needs the fat content increased & protein decreased. Assume this is liquid formula. Mix 2 parts formula; then make 1 part HALF yogurt and HALF heavy cream. That should make protein/fat roughly equal to FV 20/50. (this is the formula some rehabbers in the USA use)

The other nutrients I don't know as I haven't really studied that in baby formulas.
So, for example, if you're making up 300 g formula (by weight) that would come out to:

200g formula
50g yogurt
50g heavy cream

Can you get yogurt and heavy cream?


ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS ? I working on it , i bought yoghurt calcium enriched .

[astra]

I have heard back from a friend about the formula.
This is what she wrote.

Definitely needs the fat content increased & protein decreased. Assume this is liquid formula. Mix 2 parts formula; then make 1 part HALF yogurt and HALF heavy cream. That should make protein/fat roughly equal to FV 20/50. (this is the formula some rehabbers in the USA use)

The other nutrients I don't know as I haven't really studied that in baby formulas.
So, for example, if you're making up 300 g formula (by weight) that would come out to:

200g formula
50g yogurt
50g heavy cream

Can you get yogurt and heavy cream?


ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS ? I working on it , i bought yoghurt calcium enriched .
Yes that is it.
Use it as Jackie said.
I would say that yes. Give it daily since he doesnt have rodent block.

Also are you giving him calcium as said in the mbps protocol Jackie posted ?

[CritterMom]

I would give it to him every day. I am going to try to do some research and see what else you can add to it that you can buy in India to make it better for him, and make this his main food.

[aida]

Yes that is it.
Use it as Jackie said.
I would say that yes. Give it daily since he doesnt have rodent block.

Also are you giving him calcium as said in the mbps protocol Jackie posted ?

Yes i have mixed 250 mg of that tablet i have showen above the 1000 mg tablet

[aida]

Should i also mix the 1000 mg tablet in his drinking water bowl ? That way he will get some coz he drinks water .

[JLM27]

Calcium is usually insoluble in those capsules. Grind it to powder and sprinkle it lightly on his food, is my suggestion.

[CritterMom]

I wouldn't. Sometimes if you change the tast of their water, they stop drinking it. As long as you are getting the 250mg of calcium into him and he is eating his formula stuff, I think he is getting about enough calcium.:thumbsup

[aida]

I wouldn't. Sometimes if you change the tast of their water, they stop drinking it. As long as you are getting the 250mg of calcium into him and he is eating his formula stuff, I think he is getting about enough calcium.:thumbsup

I have purchased a new tablet , pasting the picture of same .


Purchased this tablet coz you guys were concerned regarding zinc and other stuff in that guardian tablet i showed you earlier so i purchased this , are contents of this satisfactory ?

[aida]

Calcium is usually insoluble in those capsules. Grind it to powder and sprinkle it lightly on his food, is my suggestion.
ok i gave him mixed in his solid food .

[CritterMom]

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Finally! Yes!! They mix lots of other things into the vitamin supplements in India, don't they? I was doing some reading...

[aida]

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Finally! Yes!! They mix lots of other things into the vitamin supplements in India, don't they? I was doing some reading...

Ya , this country ...... i dont know what to say , you cant find doctors for squirrel , as a matter of fact not a good doctor is present for other animals also . Dont know where are all the good people in this country .....

So now i should mix this half tablet in his formula and make solid ball and keep for him to eat .

He came out of his bed , had a little water , roamed a little around and climbed the cage , sat above his fleece for 1 minute and now he is back inside the fleece for sleep i guess .

Pasting a latest picture of him when he was sitting above his fleece.

[CritterMom]

Aida, I found something - please call these folks and see if you can order this:

http://www.indiamart.com/vetcare/pet-food-snacks-supplements-dewormer-tick-and-flea-powder.html

Scroll down to "Nutrilab Rodent" that is what you want. Mr. Cip Char might not like it as is, but if he doesn't, we can make him somethough out of this stuff ground up, added to your formula powder and some yogurt - they will be sort of like the formula balls you make but the rodent block will have the calcium and other minerals he needs to thrive after he gets better. I hope you can get this stuff...

[aida]

Aida, I found something - please call these folks and see if you can order this:

http://www.indiamart.com/vetcare/pet-food-snacks-supplements-dewormer-tick-and-flea-powder.html

Scroll down to "Nutrilab Rodent" that is what you want. Mr. Cip Char might not like it as is, but if he doesn't, we can make him somethough out of this stuff ground up, added to your formula powder and some yogurt - they will be sort of like the formula balls you make but the rodent block will have the calcium and other minerals he needs to thrive after he gets better. I hope you can get this stuff...

i have placed a query regarding it , will post asap if something comes out . really thankful for your support ......

[CritterMom]

If they won't sell directly to you, see if they will give you some place you can buy it or something similar. This is what we feed here in the US - I was so darned happy when I found that place I was dancing around my room!

[CritterMom]

How is Mr. CC doing today? Are you getting the calcium into him? And have you heard back from that company (it is probably your weekend and they may not until next week I suppose)?

[aida]

How is Mr. CC doing today? Are you getting the calcium into him? And have you heard back from that company (it is probably your weekend and they may not until next week I suppose)?

He dint eat anything from yesterday morning . I tried every thing to make him eat calcium or normal formula he has but he dint . He just has water .

So today in afternoon i grab him in fleece and forcefully injected calcium paste , approx 50 mg is gone in him . I want to ask you something , he is very hard to hold , he runs and while i was holding he restrained a lot , i held his shoulders but he pushed so hard .

Last night when i was trying to grab him , i got hold of him but i guess i held him for the first time after his adolescent like this so he bit me .

[CritterMom]

Aida, we need a report on Mr. Chip Char! Is he eating, and are you getting the calcium into him?

If he is not eating, do you know if he will eat his treats? You said he likes walnuts - will he eat those?

Have you had any luck with the rodent blocks?

[aida]

Aida, we need a report on Mr. Chip Char! Is he eating, and are you getting the calcium into him?

If he is not eating, do you know if he will eat his treats? You said he likes walnuts - will he eat those?

Have you had any luck with the rodent blocks?

Mr. Chip is a stubborn kid.. It took me two days of struggle to get calcium into him.. He wasn't eating his food . I tried sprinkling and adding the calcium into his food but didn't eat it .. So i just made a paste of calcium and gave him through the syringe using excessive force by holding in fleece very tight.... He puked yesterday and his poop was white covered with calcium .. And after that he seems to be better now.. He has started eating his formula. I am giving him cucumber and formula without any calcium bcoz if i mixing that calcium in anything then he refuse to eat that .

I talked to that rodent block company's area manager they say that they deal in only wholesale , hence i will have to purchase sack of 15 kg . I asked him to provide me with some number of retailer . lets see what happens

[Jackie in Tampa]

does he like bananas?

[madtowntom]

Aida - sounds like you have received a lot of good advice.

I just returned from Delhi and Agra and those little striped tree squirrels you have are the cutest dam things! I really wanted to bring one home with me!

Wishing Chip the best

[Jackie in Tampa]

I heard back from Chickoo who mentioned you probably already know, Royal Canin is a formula that can be used and can be found in India.

[aida]

does he like bananas?
Ya he eats a little ...

[aida]

Aida - sounds like you have received a lot of good advice.

I just returned from Delhi and Agra and those little striped tree squirrels you have are the cutest dam things! I really wanted to bring one home with me!

Wishing Chip the best

Chippy says thanks ....

[aida]

I heard back from Chickoo who mentioned you probably already know, Royal Canin is a formula that can be used and can be found in India.

Yes i have heard about that but i get meralac an indian product for which i have also pasted the picture of ingredients in this thread .. Esbilac is very rarely available here and it is mostly imported and they keep outdated product , it doesnot sell much here thats why product is usually old .

[CritterMom]

Aida, he does still need the calcium, so let's try something. Do you still have the stuff that tastes like strawberry?

Get a couple of walnuts - he likes those, right? Chop them up really, really fine until it is like ground up walnuts. Mix it with some of the formula powder, mix in the strawberry calcium, and add just enough yogurt or fruit baby food - or you said he will eat banana - that would work too - to where you can roll it into little balls and they will stick together. perhaps the strawberry flavor plus the stuff that he likes - the walnuts - will make him want to eat these.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Aida, he does still need the calcium, so let's try something. Do you still have the stuff that tastes like strawberry?

Get a couple of walnuts - he likes those, right? Chop them up really, really fine until it is like ground up walnuts. Mix it with some of the formula powder, mix in the strawberry calcium, and add just enough yogurt or fruit baby food - or you said he will eat banana - that would work too - to where you can roll it into little balls and they will stick together. perhaps the strawberry flavor plus the stuff that he likes - the walnuts - will make him want to eat these. Critter, this is almost what I do for my sqs without incisors..
I chop up the nuts and put them in an empty jar, I add protein powder and Henry's vitamix, I shake the nut pieces up and coat them...
this is how Hope and Rocky and all sqs with teeth/mouth issues get their healthy nutrition. Hope will lap formula, but not Rockmonster..no. He hates dairy and the syringe..he especially hates yogurt.. but it has been working..Hope is a miracle:)
Crittermom has given you an good option, a very good idea aida...:thumbsup
hope he will eat them either in the yogurt or just coated with the calcium.
Try to get him to eat the recipe I sent you too!
It's super high in what he appears to be super low in..it's a shake that I have used for years with good results.:thumbsup
keep up the great work, he's going to get better, you keep on keeping on!:bowdown :grouphug

[aida]

Dear All,

Day before yesterday he became better and started eating formula and cucumber but today again he is back to non eater , i forced around 50-100 mg of calcium in to him using syringe , lets see when he eats again , as for the shake and other recipe , he doesnot eats .

[aida]

Dear All,

Chip is same as before again , his poop is white . He drinks water but not eats anything , does the white color of poop means he is swallowing the calcium which i force feed using syringe and also he is getting it inside his bones?

[Jackie in Tampa]

I think it would be better if you gave him a little throught the day, not all at once.
My advise is to offer a big variety of different foods each day and no more of what he likes.
variety is the only way he will live a long life...he needs broad spectrum of nutrition..
feeding the same thing everyday will not accomplish this
you need to practice tough love after he is out of the woods.

that poop shows me he is not absorbing the calcium.
to much phosphorus in his diet may be why.

variety variety variety:grouphug

[aida]

I think it would be better if you gave him a little throught the day, not all at once.
My advise is to offer a big variety of different foods each day and no more of what he likes.
variety is the only way he will live a long life...he needs broad spectrum of nutrition..
feeding the same thing everyday will not accomplish this
you need to practice tough love after he is out of the woods.

that poop shows me he is not absorbing the calcium.
to much phosphorus in his diet may be why.

variety variety variety:grouphug

Can you tell me in vegetables what can i give him .... I am writing down the things i have with me please select which is appropriate
1. Potato
2. cucumber
3. capsicum
4. tomato
5. green beans
6. onions
7. banana
8. corn flakes

Actually the prob is he doesnot eat anything apart cucumber . He likes corn flakes , i used to give him some earlier .

[Jackie in Tampa]

Can you tell me in vegetables what can i give him .... I am writing down the things i have with me please select which is appropriate
1. Potato no
2. cucumber not unless he eats alot of other veggies first
3. capsicum NOT HOT PEPPERS but yes to bell peppers
4. tomato yes
5. green beans yes
6. onions no
7. banana yes
8. corn flakes no

Actually the prob is he doesnot eat anything apart cucumber . He likes corn flakes , i used to give him some earlier .

Corn Flakes is processed food, not good, it also has sugars:nono

Broccolli
Carrots
yam/ sweet potatoe
any squash
any melon
apple
leaf lettuces...(green leaf, red leaf, belgian endive, radichio, boston bibb, chickory, kale, greens)
cauliflower
snap peas
snow peas
okra
tomatoe
plums, peaches and grapes
brussel sprouts
avacodo
berries from the markey (be careful picking wild berries)
mushrooms, (another be careful and buy at the market)

NO EGGPLANT

hoping others will help add to the good food list:)

Does your pet store sell worms for reptiles?
If so, get a pic of them, some are good protein:thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

tinfoil aida...
how is MrCC?

[aida]

tinfoil aida...
how is MrCC?
chip lost a lot of wright . He was not eating since 3 days . I am giving daily calcium through force feeding . He dint drink banana shake also . But today he ate a lil apple and tomato , just now i fed him calcium . But i don no how much he swallow coz he is reluctant to have anything . Donno why he is doing all this ....

[CritterMom]

Aida, will he eat ANYTHING? Even the treats he isn't supposed to have? What happens if you give him some walnut?

[aida]

Aida, will he eat ANYTHING? Even the treats he isn't supposed to have? What happens if you give him some walnut?

ya he wants his treats but the condition is never to trick him in taking calcium like i tried to put some paste of calcium on peanut then he refused to eat it .

[aida]

Hi everyone ,

wanted to post update regarding Chip .

He is not eating his solid food and calcium as well , he started to eat in small quantities - Tomato , Apple , Cabbage . Even after eating only these three items he is more active than before when he was lethargic , But the thing of concern is , he lost a lot of wait , i can see his back bones now .


I tried giving him yoghurt , cream mixed formula but he doesnot eat it . Can anyone ship me some rodent block as i tried with the company in india as per crittermom but they did not replied in a positive way when i asked that i want for personal use , they dont even pick my calls as i am not a bulk purchaser .

[redwuff]

Aida, what kind of block are you looking for?

[aida]

Aida, what kind of block are you looking for?

suggested by crittermom -

Aida, I found something - please call these folks and see if you can order this:

http://www.indiamart.com/vetcare/pet...ea-powder.html

Scroll down to "Nutrilab Rodent" that is what you want. Mr. Cip Char might not like it as is, but if he doesn't, we can make him somethough out of this stuff ground up, added to your formula powder and some yogurt - they will be sort of like the formula balls you make but the rodent block will have the calcium and other minerals he needs to thrive after he gets better. I hope you can get this stuff...

[CritterMom]

Guys, I am on vacation now and can't check in much. Chip could get Forti Diet, Harlan Teklad - maybe someone can get in touch with Leigh for some HHBs... I don't know if she ships to India...

At this point, Aida, try giving him some of his treats - not the corn, but even some walnuts...he needs to eat.

Thanks...

[Nancy in New York]

Guys, I am on vacation now and can't check in much. Chip could get Forti Diet, Harlan Teklad - maybe someone can get in touch with Leigh for some HHBs... I don't know if she ships to India...

At this point, Aida, try giving him some of his treats - not the corn, but even some walnuts...he needs to eat.

Thanks...

Yup, I just checked with Leigh, she ships to India and can give a quote for shipping once she knows the location.
Aida, contact 4skwerlz through a pm or go to her site,http://henryspets.com and she will set you right up with what you need. :thumbsup

[aida]

Yup, I just checked with Leigh, she ships to India and can give a quote for shipping once she knows the location.
Aida, contact 4skwerlz through a pm or go to her site,http://henryspets.com and she will set you right up with what you need. :thumbsup

Yup i checked it they ship to india , thanks ....

[CritterMom]

Aida, Chip needs nutritiion now. Have you tried feeding him the same formula he ate as a baby? Not made up as little balls - I mean as formula? There is a suggetion earlier int this thread for the amount of yogurt and cream to add to it to get the nutrition up to what a squirrel needs if you look back. If he won't take it out of a bowl, feed him like you sis as a baby - with a syringe. If he doesn't want it, wrap him up so he is restrained and FORCE THE ISSUE! Sometimes you need to use tough love. He needs food - if he isn't eating he won't be strong enough to fight of the MBD. If he bites, get some gloves. You need to do whatever it takes to get some food into him NOW. The formula would be a good choice, and once he drinks it a couple times he will probably decide he likes it again - they usually do...

[Nancy in New York]

Aida, Chip needs nutritiion now. Have you tried feeding him the same formula he ate as a baby? Not made up as little balls - I mean as formula? There is a suggetion earlier int this thread for the amount of yogurt and cream to add to it to get the nutrition up to what a squirrel needs if you look back. If he won't take it out of a bowl, feed him like you sis as a baby - with a syringe. If he doesn't want it, wrap him up so he is restrained and FORCE THE ISSUE! Sometimes you need to use tough love. He needs food - if he isn't eating he won't be strong enough to fight of the MBD. If he bites, get some gloves. You need to do whatever it takes to get some food into him NOW. The formula would be a good choice, and once he drinks it a couple times he will probably decide he likes it again - they usually do...

I think this is what CritterMom is referring to:
[QUOTE=aida]I have heard back from a friend about the formula.
This is what she wrote.

Definitely needs the fat content increased & protein decreased. Assume this is liquid formula. Mix 2 parts formula; then make 1 part HALF yogurt and HALF heavy cream. That should make protein/fat roughly equal to FV 20/50. (this is the formula some rehabbers in the USA use)

The other nutrients I don't know as I haven't really studied that in baby formulas.
So, for example, if you're making up 300 g formula (by weight) that would come out to:

200g formula
50g yogurt
50g heavy cream

[aida]

Aida, Chip needs nutritiion now. Have you tried feeding him the same formula he ate as a baby? Not made up as little balls - I mean as formula? There is a suggetion earlier int this thread for the amount of yogurt and cream to add to it to get the nutrition up to what a squirrel needs if you look back. If he won't take it out of a bowl, feed him like you sis as a baby - with a syringe. If he doesn't want it, wrap him up so he is restrained and FORCE THE ISSUE! Sometimes you need to use tough love. He needs food - if he isn't eating he won't be strong enough to fight of the MBD. If he bites, get some gloves. You need to do whatever it takes to get some food into him NOW. The formula would be a good choice, and once he drinks it a couple times he will probably decide he likes it again - they usually do...


You will be glad to hear this " chip is active again but he lost a lot of weight now he is slim trim " and regarding eating , i don give him cucumber as you advised , now i give him tomato , cabbage , green bean , apple . He eats cabbage and apple completely , and the formula i used to give him earlier is also back again in shape of solid balls , but the problem is i am not able to find that formula more in market and it is going to be finished and he doesnot eat that meralac formula anymore . He wants samolac which he used to drink as baby .


Henry's rodent blocks is too costly and shipping cost is greater than the block itself , i m trying to get some funds bcoz there is a greater chance that he might not eat them .

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

In the pet store there do they have powdered calcium with vitamin D3, for lizards??
We have it here called " Repto Cal", you can sprinkle some on his food and he will get calcium into him that way if you can not get block.

[aida]

In the pet store there do they have powdered calcium with vitamin D3, for lizards??
We have it here called " Repto Cal", you can sprinkle some on his food and he will get calcium into him that way if you can not get block.

Ya i have tried that , sprinkled powder of calcium + Vit D3 in his food but he donot eat all those things that have that powder , i had to force feed him earlier with syringe .

[CritterMom]

Aida, if you cannot get his old formula anymore, you can make some for him with goat's milk, yogurt and heavy cream:
3 parts goat's milk
1 part yogurt
1 part heavy cream

If you can only find powdered goat's milk, or evaporated, not the fresh stuff, mix it according to the package directions FIRST, then use it to make the recipe above.:thumbsup

He can have a little cucumber - it is okay in small amounts - the foods he was eating that you really need to avoid are the peanuts and corn.

[aida]

Aida, if you cannot get his old formula anymore, you can make some for him with goat's milk, yogurt and heavy cream:
3 parts goat's milk
1 part yogurt
1 part heavy cream

If you can only find powdered goat's milk, or evaporated, not the fresh stuff, mix it according to the package directions FIRST, then use it to make the recipe above.:thumbsup

He can have a little cucumber - it is okay in small amounts - the foods he was eating that you really need to avoid are the peanuts and corn.


Chip is fine these days . Sorry couldnot reply , was really busy . So i have now put him on his formula + cream made into solid balls which he eats now . In between he completely refused to have his formula , but now he is back . He eats tomato , cabbage , apple and i give him cucumber very rarely as you said that it contains high quantity of phosphorous .

Will post a recent pic soon.

[Curliesmom]

Oh my he's so pretty. Shines so wonderful on him.

[CritterMom]

I am pleased to hear this.

Be a detective and do some hunting for the rodent lab blocks. It doesn't have to be the company I sent you. They are literally made for laboratory animals - lab rats. So I would look for places like that - you may find one that is willing to sell to you.

[Itchiku's dad]

Glad to hear he's o.k. I'm new here but also live in S.E.Asia so I know how hard it is to find things like rodent blocks and good formula. I'm still searching for rodent blocks myself. If you have trouble getting him to eat calcium I have a smoothie recipe that might help. It's easier if you have a liquidizer, but you should be able to get the ingredients easily enough.

The water and flesh from a young coconut.
Some natural yogurt unsweetened. about 2 dessert spoons or to taste.
Some fruit but always with papaya as it has a 4:1 cal/pho ratio.
young coconut water is nature's electrolyte drink and if I'm right palm squirrels do like and eat papaya in the wild.

Blend together and spoon out some for you're squirrel and then drink the rest as a nice healthy smoothie.

[island rehabber]

Glad to hear he's o.k. I'm new here but also live in S.E.Asia so I know how hard it is to find things like rodent blocks and good formula. I'm still searching for rodent blocks myself. If you have trouble getting him to eat calcium I have a smoothie recipe that might help. It's easier if you have a liquidizer, but you should be able to get the ingredients easily enough.

The water and flesh from a young coconut.
Some natural yogurt unsweetened. about 2 dessert spoons or to taste.
Some fruit but always with papaya as it has a 4:1 cal/pho ratio.
young coconut water is nature's electrolyte drink and if I'm right palm squirrels do like and eat papaya in the wild.

Blend together and spoon out some for you're squirrel and then drink the rest as a nice healthy smoothie.

:goodpost sounds delicious!!

[pradeep200417]

Critter, this is almost what I do for my sqs without incisors..
I chop up the nuts and put them in an empty jar, I add protein powder and Henry's vitamix, I shake the nut pieces up and coat them...
this is how Hope and Rocky and all sqs with teeth/mouth issues get their healthy nutrition. Hope will lap formula, but not Rockmonster..no. He hates dairy and the syringe..he especially hates yogurt.. but it has been working..Hope is a miracle:)
Crittermom has given you an good option, a very good idea aida...:thumbsup
hope he will eat them either in the yogurt or just coated with the calcium.
Try to get him to eat the recipe I sent you too!
It's super high in what he appears to be super low in..it's a shake that I have used for years with good results.:thumbsup
keep up the great work, he's going to get better, you keep on keeping on!:bowdown :grouphug

I had one question. Does it mean that the Henrys Vitamins and Henrys Protein mix can be mixed up with other food, instead of baking them to make the blocks?

[CritterMom]

I had one question. Does it mean that the Henrys Vitamins and Henrys Protein mix can be mixed up with other food, instead of baking them to make the blocks?

Yes they can. The thing you want to do is make sure that what you are mixing them with are not cancelling out the nutrients. In other words, since calcium is so important, you don't want to mix what the numbers say is one day's worth of calcium with something that is extremely high in phosphorus, because the phosphorus will "cancel out" the calcium, rendering what you are trying to do as worthless. The nice thing about the blocks is that all of that has been figured out already so you don't need to do the research.

[pradeep200417]

Yes they can. The thing you want to do is make sure that what you are mixing them with are not cancelling out the nutrients. In other words, since calcium is so important, you don't want to mix what the numbers say is one day's worth of calcium with something that is extremely high in phosphorus, because the phosphorus will "cancel out" the calcium, rendering what you are trying to do as worthless. The nice thing about the blocks is that all of that has been figured out already so you don't need to do the research.
I would be trying to mix it with Baby food. For 100g of baby food, it has 400mg of Calcium and 300mg of phosphorous. The calcium to phosporous ratios is around 1.3 here. Would also be trying to mix it with Finger Millets (Or Ragi as we call it in India), which also seems to be high on Calcium.

[Diggie's Friend]

That is a very good ratio considering that the baby food is higher in phosphorus that should bring the ratio up just a bit; for both in data on

optimum Ca:P ratio found in rat research and that of 2016 HT Envigo diet for weaned young, the ratio is (1.4:1)

This should come very close to that mark.

Each time you add in phosphorus to a source from grains, to continue to support an optimum (1.4: 1) Ca:P ratio in the diet you will need by

adding a specific elemental measure of calcium to the diet to compensate for the additional phosphorus included from nuts/grains and other food

sources you include.

Data on food sources is generally included online; it is the best way to keep tract of the amount of phosphorus in what you feed by volume measured amounts.

[Diggie's Friend]

Ragi finger millet (Eleusine coracana)

Unlike most millet, Ragi, aka: 'Finger millet', has a positive Calcium to Phosphorus ratio, making it an exception to the rule as far as Calcium to Phosphorus ratio of other millet species. It also contains a higher level of oxalates that reduce the bioavailability of calcium in this source.

I would encourage you to look for organic grown Ragi, as organic produced grains are lower in oxalates and higher in other nutrients than those conventionally grown.

https://www.myupchar.com/en/tips/ragi-ke-fayde-aur-nuksan-in-hindi

Sprouting Ragi seeds

Sprouting Ragi seeds lowers the level of oxalates, phytates , and other anti-nutrients that this seed contains; while increasing the level of protein and calcium, and phosphorus, and vital trace minerals available to the body.


Wash ragi seeds thoroughly and soak them in drinking water overnight. Drain out all the water in the next afternoon. Take a perforated utensil and line it with a clean white muslin cloth. Put the drained ragi seeds over the cloth. Tie it up and place it somewhere undisturbed in your kitchen for at least 12 hours (I kept overnight). Next day you can see all the ragi seeds with tiny white sprouts on their top.

Spread those sprouted seeds in a clean mat or a plate and dry it under sunlight or under fan for few hours till it is completely dry.
As I am staying in flat I kept them under fan plus partial sunlight.

Cooking damages the polyphenols and other heat sensitive nutrients that this source contains.

For this reason it is best not to cook the Ragi, or feed a source of roasted Ragi to your chipmunk/squirrel.

[pradeep200417]

Ragi finger millet (Eleusine coracana)

Unlike most millet, Ragi, aka: 'Finger millet', has a positive Calcium to Phosphorus ratio, making it an exception to the rule as far as Calcium to Phosphorus ratio of other millet species. It also contains a higher level of oxalates that reduce the bioavailability of calcium in this source.

I would encourage you to look for organic grown Ragi, as organic produced grains are lower in oxalates and higher in other nutrients than those conventionally grown.

https://www.myupchar.com/en/tips/ragi-ke-fayde-aur-nuksan-in-hindi

Sprouting Ragi seeds

Sprouting Ragi seeds lowers the level of oxalates, phytates , and other anti-nutrients that this seed contains; while increasing the level of protein and calcium, and phosphorus, and vital trace minerals available to the body.



Cooking damages the polyphenols and other heat sensitive nutrients that this source contains.

For this reason it is best not to cook the Ragi, or feed a source of roasted Ragi to your chipmunk/squirrel.

I was thinking of mixing it with Roasted ragi flour.

[Diggie's Friend]

Noted on Ragi, "Finger Millet"


Cooking damages the polyphenols and other heat sensitive nutrients that this source contains.

Best option noted is to soak the millet seed as noted to sprout it, as it's more nutritious that way.

When foods higher in phosphorus than Calcium, are added to either a diet like HT Envigo 2016, then additional calcium is needed to support a healthy ratio for the juvenile diet.

With this source (Ragi) the ratio is near the same as that of the HT Envigo 2016 diet, yet would be needful to add a small amount of calcium to keep it the same as the HT diet when including it with it.

For adult diets, increasing calcium in the diet to at least a 2:1 ratio from what the HT Envigo diet includes at 1.4: 1 Ca:P ratio would be needful to support their nutritional needs optimally.

[pradeep200417]

Noted on Ragi, "Finger Millet"



Best option noted is to soak the millet seed as noted to sprout it, as it's more nutritious that way.

When foods higher in phosphorus than Calcium, are added to either a diet like HT Envigo 2016, then additional calcium is needed to support a healthy ratio for the juvenile diet.

With this source (Ragi) the ratio is near the same as that of the HT Envigo 2016 diet, yet would be needful to add a small amount of calcium to keep it the same as the HT diet when including it with it.

For adult diets, increasing calcium in the diet to at least a 2:1 ratio from what the HT Envigo diet includes at 1.4: 1 Ca:P ratio would be needful to support their nutritional needs optimally.
Someone also did some research on this.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/01d9/323a8532cf983085a0c959e392004304feb7.pdf

[Diggie's Friend]

Soaking to sprout (germinate) the grain supports increasing the protein, and the bioavailability of the calcium it contains from that of unprocessed raw. And although that study notes roasting increases calcium, that is due to concentration of the grain by weight from dehydration it causes. What was not taken into account, not addressed, is the calcium robbing and lowering anti-nutrients of oxalates and tannins that aren't reduced from roasting, are reduced from soaking and sprouting grains.


Germination
The terms sprouting, malting, and germination are to refer to the process of soaking. [31] Stated that sprouting of finger millet results in lowering of the antinutritional factor like tannins, phytate and trypsin inhibitors activity. [31] Stated that in raw ungerminated finger millet tannin content germination for 0, 24, 48, and 72h it decreased by 20%, 45%, 62%and 72% respectively.


https://www.drkellyann.com/are-sprouted-grains-more-nutritious/


Once grains are sprouted, the bioavailability of their nutrients increases. Essentially, your body is able to absorb and use the nutrients more efficiently. This includes B-vitamins as well as minerals, such as iron and zinc.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-to-reduce-antinutrients#section6

A combined strategy of soaking it with a bit of yogurt to acidify it, will not just reduce the tannins and oxalates, but phytates also, which results in increasing the bioavailability of calcium, and other essential minerals, and nutrients; then drying and roasting the millet to preserve it, would be a better option than roasting alone. This same strategy has been used since ancient times to support optimum nutrition from grain sources.

[Diggie's Friend]

Here is the study quoted above on Germination.

https://ijair.org/administrator/components/com_jresearch/files/publications/IJAIR-1074_final.pdf