Seizure

[Syntdea]

YANA had a seizure today.

Diet:
12 boo balls a day which have a total of 22mg of Ca per ball. 12 balls equals 264mg Calcuim
Radicchio, endive, several types of lettuce, sugar snap peas, avocado, bok choy, 12 dried mealworms, some squash 3 times a week, 1 nut maybe twice a week (if not less).
Salad equals about 1/2-3/4 cup once to twice a day (used to be 2-3 times a day, but Paul's-husband-illness has gotten a bit worse so things have been a little crazy here). If fed salad once he eats all of his salad. If fed twice he eats 3/4 of it. This has been his diet for the past two weeks.

Exercise:
About an hour out of cage a day, plus me going into his cage to play.

History:
Found at about 1.5 weeks old, on the ground. Ate formula until he started refusing it (can't remember at what age) then formula with crushed HT blocks, as per weight, until about 6 months old (plus veggies).
4-6 times over a couple of months he would freeze and drool a tiny bit for a minute or two and you couldn't get his attention and then when he started up again he would run around and wipe his face. He never went off his feed and has always been an active boy. He wakes up with the sun and goes to bed when it goes down. He weighs 720g.

Today:
He was climbing across the curtain rod and slipped badly (bar is smooth, but he has been running along it for months with no problem). We caught him before his paws had fully left the bar (one paw still on it), but he was very scared. He had a full blown seizure lasting about 40 seconds. He was severely disoriented scared and weak for about 10 minutes after the seizure. After, he went right back to eating. He was calm after but you could tell he was a bit shaken.

We gave force fed him a 500mg Tum mixed with cranberry juice about 40 minutes ago and have added some Ca to his salad (via avocado) just now. We are starting MBD treatment as per this site, but, well, I need some help. Were those frozen moments symptoms of MBD or just him being really focused on something? Considering the amount of calcium he's getting could this be something else?

I am attaching a breakdown of the boo balls I make.
165493

[Syntdea]

Sorry, that veggie list isn't a complete list of items that he has gotten, just what he is getting these past two weeks. We try to change up the veggies so that he doesn't get bored. I just can't think of what all we have given him in the past right now.

[SammySquirrel]

Have you tried to send a pm to a few of the pros on here. Some have it set to send them an email when a new message is received. That may get you a response a wee bit quicker. I wish I had words of wisdom for you but I am but a newbie squirrler. Good luck with your baby. Sandra

[Syntdea]

I'll do that, thanks.

[island rehabber]

syntdea I really don't see where his diet is deficient enough to cause MBD...it looks pretty darn good. I am wondering if he simply sustained some neurological injury when he fell as a baby and you are just starting to see new symptoms. This can and does happen, I'm afraid. :(

[Syntdea]

IR, thank you for looking at this. Is there anything you think that I should be doing?

[island rehabber]

IR, thank you for looking at this. Is there anything you think that I should be doing?

Observe and think about every little last possible thing that he could have gotten into, eaten, breathed, ingested from his paws, whatEVER. Sometimes toxins can cause these reactions as well as good old head trauma :shakehead. There is a remote chance that something in his environment is doing this. The 'frozen moments' -- are you sure they were seizures and not just "prey animal freezes because he's freaked out"? I have seen babies freeze for hours...especially up in the corner of a new cage...their paws could not even be pried off the bars...

[patjones]

I hope your baby does not have any more I don't have anyting to add I was just supprised that they could freeze up for hours,

[Syntdea]

IR, I have no idea what the frozen moments were, I just thought that I should mention them just in case.

[CritterMom]

It is also possible that he fell in his cage and hit his head - or even running around the house. Accidents can happen anywhere. With the diet you outlined I don't see MBD...

[Syntdea]

CritterMom, I haven't seen or heard (the bedroom door is usually open and he's loud when he's playing in his cage) fall and the only times I have seen him hit his head have been when he's playing with our hands or stuffies and throws his head back after biting the toy/hand, but it is just a little bonk and doesn't seem to effect him (he doen't stop playing or even acknowledges that he connected with anything). I have taken to keeping a hand/something soft behind him while he is playing with me. He might have hit his head harder at some point, but I have not seen it.

IR, I don't think he has gotten into anything, but I will go over his room with a fine tooth comb.

[virgo062]

the only thing I can add is...Knothead is a nero squirrel (2 years old) He use to have seizures several times a month and some were pretty violent after the seizure he would be weak for MANY hours...I have had him on Ensure for about 4 months (I think)....His seizures are almost non existent:thumbsup I offer it to him about 3 times a week sometimes can only get a few drops in but it has seems to help...Good Luck

[Jackie in Tampa]

exactly what was going on right before the seizure?
noise wise???
what activities were around?
any sudden or loud noises..
were there extra people around, dogs barking..
stereo on? noise outside?

how is he now? has he had another one?

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Syntdea
How old is Yana? Has he had Seizures befor when first found? Do you know if he fell from his nest and how High, or was the Tree cut down?
Has Yana shown any Improvement from the Tums mixture you gave? :thinking (Usually after Seizures, when you give the Tums mixture. Should see some improvement within 45min to 1 hr.) If you have Maple Syrup or Molasses.
After Each Seizure Rub some Maple Syrup, or Molasses in his Mouth. (Using a Syringe.) :D This will help him a lot. Each Seizure will deplete the Calcium reserves he has built up in his system. Making him Weak and Disorientated.
It will Rob Calcium from every Part of his Body. Can you keep him confined in a Small Cage, with a Heat source if he wonts to use it he can. We don't need him falling and really hurting him self. Just until we can figure out what is going on. :thumbsup3
Do you have any FoxVally? I would offer him some warmed up. This will give him extra Calcium and Vitamins he will be needing . (You can add the Heavy Cream and Vanilla Yogurt if he will not eat Just FoxVally.)
Do you offer Daily, Vanilla Yogurt with Fox Vally Formula Powder mixed together? How is he doing now? :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

no to the honey and the genuine maple syrup...we really wanted phoney log cabin!:D
I use molasses as a quicker picker upper after seeing a seizure..
I do because seizures deplete brain calcium, molasses has some calcium naturally.
This is VERY important if you have a severe low calcium sq, boosting the calcium immediately, but that doesn't sound like the case here if you have done the math.:thumbsup

I don't like the boo balls, I like HHBs. There are too many variations and odd ingrediant possibilities..... maybe...
How we chose to feed is up to the individual.
I would guess it depends on the version you use and the ingrediants..
You may want to send your recipe to 4 Skwerlz via email and make sure there are no dangerous overloads or deficiencies.
Rule that possibility out right away.

His seizure could also be a result of a nuero issue, they sometimes suddenly break thru without reason eons after initial accident.

If you see more, make notes to keep records and write down scenerio at the time.
Hoping it was just a fluke, odd behavior...
please keep us in the loop.
:grouphug

[CritterMom]

12 Booballs? Are they tiny or is Yana a professional competitive eater?:D

I read your recipe information, and have a suggestion. The former member who came up with that recipe has made some changes to it and is not including the virgin coconut oil any longer, because it was determined that there was already sufficient fat in the recipe from the other ingredients. EVCO has all sorts of good nutritional benefits but the added fat is an issue - and is also an issue because too much fat can hinder the metabolizing of the calcium. You might want to alter the recipe to remove the CO.

I am still not convinced it is MBD but doing this is a very small change that won't impact the taste of them and may help.

There are so many things that can cause seizures...

[virgo062]

I'm really not sure why it works except for the vitamins and nitrition...I feed Knothead the PECAn flavor....yes there is a PECAN flavor...LOL...Sometimes he will take 8-9 cc in one sitting..On the days he refuses it I will keep badgering him until I can get at least a few drops in him...usually has more on his face and my shirt than in his mouth..I would be careful forcing it down him you dont want to aspirate him...you might be surprised he may like it :) So in closing all I really know is since he has been on the Ensure his Seizures have slowed trememdously and when he does have one it a mild one


BTW: I think I may have deleted your original message:thinking Not sure how but apparently I'm magic:dono

[Syntdea]

JIT,
I'll pick up some molasses today after taking my dog to the vet. I'm sure it will help him to feel better after a seizure even if it's only because of the sugar. Hopefully he'll never have another one, but I want to be prepared just in case.
Can I send 4Skwerlz an email though this site or is there a way to contact her through her site?
I will definitely keep track of his behaviour and keepa record of all information that I can think about surrounding and further seizures, and I will definitely keep you all in the loop. Who else can I turn to that will understand.
Thank you so much for all your help.

CritterMom,
I weight out the balls at 5g each (I love my kitchen scale). Half of them I them dry out at 200F and the rest go in the freezer. He likes them both and likes it when I change it up for him. He eats almost all of them, except that he's a messy eater (look at the pictures stosh posted in Cruiser's thread where Cruiser is on the floor under Rama's trees and the mess Rama makes on the floor). I will remove the coconut oil from the recipe. Thank you for letting me know that, I never even thought about fat hindering the absorption of calcium.
At this point I am at a complete loss as to what caused it. I haven't found anything toxic in the room. He's only out when we are in there with him right now as we don't own this place so can't have him chewing on the trim and whatnot (I can't wait until we move). And I thought his diet was fine, needed a bit more variety, but basically fine. Now I'm second guessing everything.

virgo062,
Thank you for that information. Pecan? Ididn't know they had pecan. He has never even seen a pecan before. I wonder if I can get away with a different one so that he doesn't know what he's missing. :D
I think you are right. My message is gone. Do you have a magic wand stuck up your sleeve?

Thank you all so much for you continued help. I'm sure I would be a complete mess right now without you (instead of the half mess that I am :) )

[virgo062]

IDK Syntdea guess I'm more powerful than I thought:rotfl
We will be praying for Yana:grouphug

[Syntdea]

So far so good. No new seizures. :wahoo
YANA has been his normal self. As active, playful and sometimes even loving as before.
I bought him Ensure yesterday and he loved it. Took about 2cc and thought he was in heaven. I've frozen the rest of the bottle, will this affect the Ensure? I really didn't want to throw out the rest of it.
As soon as I find my camera cord I will post a picture or two so that you can see my little trouble maker. :D

[virgo062]

Thats yummy news.....Not sure about the freezing of Ensure I normally keep it in the fridge I like to have it on hand in case he will take it :):thumbsup

[Syntdea]

YANA had another seizure today.
Seizure lasted longer this time. About a minute.
Recovery took about 30 minutes. He's still a little jittery but is interested in things. We put molasses in his mouth just after he was done seizing and gave him Ensure during his recovery period. He took about 12ml of Ensure today which is about what he normally gets, I think he would take more if I let him as he really likes it. Do you think I should give him as much as he'll take? He's been getting it daily, is there a max amount that he should get?
He was running around playing normally and then he started to get even more crazy than usual. Like himself times 10. Frenetic. Then he just stopped and seized. I think that's what happened last time, too. Like a car with no brakes going down a steep hill. He went faster and faster without being able to stop, until he hit a tree (seizure).

[jo_schmoe]

Im not convinced this is MBD either.....

If MBD is the case....remember...vit D...and magnesium are just as important as calcium....