Two new babies dehydrated/constipated

[Orphan Mom]

I rehabbed a little pinky aboy about 2 years ago, and it was a very successful rehab and release.

So Sunday we found a nest under the hood of our Jeep Cherokee that we hardly use, but we didn't find it until we'd used the truck all day, so there was no reuniting with mom (who'd chewed through $200 of hoses making the nest, btw).

Here's the quick rundown.

The last time I did this Esbilac was the way to go. I found a nipple and a 3 cc syringe. I got a (auto-shutoff) heating pad (and I'm restarting it every 2 hours). I now how FV formula and a no shut off heating pad on order.

I keep stimulating them, but I can't get Mork or Mindy to poop or pee. Mindy pooped a little when I first found them, but since then nothing. I picked up their skin today and I think maybe they're a little dehydrated. They're also bloated.

I bought Pedialyte, and each drank 3 cc's. I got them some gas drops and got them to take that.

Also, when I first picked them up they were covered in bugs -- looked like really big brown fleas(?)

What else can I do? How long can this go on before they're in real danger? Should I keep them exclusively on Pedialyte until they do poop? Should I worry about bug bites? How should I treat that? What about larvae from the bugs?

[patjones]

Hang in there the experts will be here in a minute I am sure. This is a very active board. Congratulations on the new charges. How long ago did you pick them up they will ask that first I do know pedialite is 24 hours only there is a formula for something you can make up until the fox valley arrives with goats milk and heavy cream. You might make a post in the life threatening section that automatically alerts a lot of people that you need help.

[Orphan Mom]

We found them Sunday afternoon. My guess is that they're about 3 weeks. Mork weighs 64 grams. Mindy weighs 65 grams.

Thanks :)

http://www.ravelry.com/forum-images/GuanYin/3o4x-9mpvty

[astra]

Hi, yes, as pat said - keep checking in often our experts will be here soon.

IN the meantime, did I understand it correctly that you started them on formula almost right away? (sorry, if I misunderstood - kind of in a rush here).

Usually, a rule of thumb is to hydrate babies first for a few feedings after they are found. Because if they are dehydrated, they won't eat. Also, dehydration is more dangerous than a little hunger.
So, hydrate them for a few feedings first.
However, pedialyte should be given for no more than 24 hrs.
Severely dehydrated babies are hydrated for 24hrs sometimes.

Never mix formula and pedi together. Always separate.

Are you using FV?
Sometimes, for certain babies full strength FV can be too strong.
It's good to start on a diluted FV (e.g., instead of doing 2:1, do 3water;1formula).
Alternate pedi with formula a couple of times because that might help with pooping and peeing.

The fact that they are not pooping yet might have to do with them not having eaten enough to poop, you know?
If they are stomachs are not bloated, not tight and distended, then, perhaps, it is because they have not eaten enough.
If they are bloated, stop formula.
Have you tried soaking them in warm water while stimulating?

Also, if they are not warm enough, they won't eat.
Never feed a cold/chilly baby.

Another thing - formula temp needs to be very very warm, almost hot, but not hot (so that you don't burn them)


No formula till the bloat is down.

As for bugs, pick the visible ones, but you can also use Dawn unscented: dissolve in water and wipe them with it.
But here I am not sure - if they are pinkies, I am afraid that might chill them and that's not good.
So, wait for the experts to advise.
------
*so, for now please make sure they are warm.
*keep hydrating fluid.
*do not give any formula till the bloat is down
*try warm bath - soak their little bellies and stimulate gently, start from the upper body. Someone shared recently, that they start with a tip of wet soft fleece from their face, sort of like a mother squirrel would lick their face and gradually go down to their lower body.
Try that.

Also, could you post photos?...
Photos ARE VERY helpful!
So, please post photos of them from different angles and especially, of their bellies.

Keep checking often - someone experienced will be here soon.

[astra]

Orphan Mom,

you probably cannot post pics yet - you can email them to me and I will post them for you: ad_astra81@hotmail.com

Please keep checking back often - I sent a few messages to our experts, someone experienced will be here soon.

FOr stiluation you can use Qtips, cotton, anything that is very soft and gentle.
Make sure your hydration fluid is very warm, again - not too hot to burn them, but very, very warm (mother squirrels body temp is about 102*, so being as close to that as possible is the goal. Again, just don't make it too hot).

[Scooterzmom]

If they are bloated do NOT feed them any formula. In fact do not to feed them anything until the bloat goes down. You will need some infant Gas-X, not a laxative - it's designed to let them release the gas so they can evacuate easier.

The experts should be chiming in soon. Keeping you and the babies in my thoughts and prayers. So far you're doiing fine. Hang in there babies... :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[rygel1hardt]

I am an experienced licensed wildlife rehabilitator in Arkansas and have everything they need. If you are close I can take them. Let me know if I can be of help. Stacey

[astra]

You will need some infant Gas-X, not a laxative - it's designed to let them release the gas so they can evacuate easier.
:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon
:thumbsup
yes, don't feed them anything till the bloat is down.
Don't even do hydration yet as that may exacerbate the bloat (hydration would be great if they were constipated but without the bloat, but if there is bloat - then, hold off just yet).

[astra]

I am an experienced licensed wildlife rehabilitator in Arkansas and have everything they need. If you are close I can take them. Let me know if I can be of help. Stacey
:thankyou

[Anne]

Bloat treatment


If the belly is hard, they probably are bloated. Give them a couple of drops of infant gas X simethicone. Do not feed anything until you can get the bloating down. Try putting them one at a time in warm water up to their armpits and massage the tummy. Dry them completely and put their container on low heat, half under the container and half off of the container. Repeat this until the bloating is better and the tummy is no longer hard.

[Orphan Mom]

WE HAVE POOOP!!!! YAAAAAY!~!!! Poop -- lots of poop!

Like I said, I already gave them the gas drops. The only reason I used Esbilac is because that's what was recommended the last time I did this. I promise I really am experienced at this. I do have the heating pad. I have the container. It's half on the heating pad. I have the supplies -- syringes, nipples, cages, everything. I just wondered about how long before the constipation would be bad, if there was anything I could do above what I am already doing, and what to do about bug bites/larvae.

[astra]

WE HAVE POOOP!!!! YAAAAAY!~!!! Poop -- lots of poop!

Like I said, I already gave them the gas drops. The only reason I used Esbilac is because that's what was recommended the last time I did this. I promise I really am experienced at this. I do have the heating pad. I have the container. It's half on the heating pad. I have the supplies -- syringes, nipples, cages, everything. I just wondered about how long before the constipation would be bad, if there was anything I could do above what I am already doing, and what to do about bug bites/larvae.
poop is great!
Still wait till the bellies deflate.
Also, we need photos - could you email them to me?

Bloat is always bad. Once bloat - that has to be taken care of first. Bloat can be deadly.
As for bugs, Dawn unscented thorough wipe-down usually takes care of most of them. Put some Dawn in a water bowl, with a wet cloth wipe them down, just dry them right away and on a heating pad -I mean, with a heating pad UNDER their container set on LOW and under HALF of their container, so that they can always move on the no-pad half of the container if they feel too warm - they should not get chilled

[astra]

WE HAVE POOOP!!!! YAAAAAY!~!!! Poop -- lots of poop!

Like I said, I already gave them the gas drops. The only reason I used Esbilac is because that's what was recommended the last time I did this. I promise I really am experienced at this. I do have the heating pad. I have the container. It's half on the heating pad. I have the supplies -- syringes, nipples, cages, everything. I just wondered about how long before the constipation would be bad, if there was anything I could do above what I am already doing, and what to do about bug bites/larvae.
Esbilac causes major GI problems (they changed their formula over a year ago), often fatal.
So no Esbilac.

If you don't have Fox Valley, you can use a home made Goat Milk formula:http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29904
Often GM formula is milder and gentler on very young pinkie babies. People often start with GM and when the baby is stable, they slowly transition to FV.

[astra]

as I was thinking about your bug question, just want to clarify something:

it's external bugs we are talking about, right?

Are there any bugs that crawl out of them (say, out of their mouths, ears, butt etc)?

[astra]

Orphan Mom Please EMAIL me - I will give you a phone number for someone who can guide you through each step tonight.

[Orphan Mom]

Often GM formula is milder and gentler on very young pinkie babies.

They aren't pinkies.
My guess is that they're about 3 weeks. Mork weighs 64 grams. Mindy weighs 65 grams. Can you see the picture I already posted?

Now that they've started pooping, I feel much less stressed. I will keep giving them gas drops and pedialyte until tomorrow and their little bellies go down.

There aren’t any bugs on them now. They were just in their fur (I figure because mom hadn't been around for about a day and wasn't keeping them groomed). I got the bugs off immediately -- they were pretty big. I will use the Dawn in case there are larvae. I just wonder if I need to put some kind of antibiotic something on them.

[astra]

They aren't pinkies. Can you see the picture I already posted?

Now that they've started pooping, I feel much less stressed. I will keep giving them gas drops and pedialyte until tomorrow and their little bellies go down.

There aren’t any bugs on them now. They were just in their fur (I figure because mom hadn't been around for about a day and wasn't keeping them groomed). I got the bugs off immediately -- they were pretty big. I will use the Dawn in case there are larvae.
I just wonder if I need to put some kind of antibiotic something on them.
there are no pics posted.
I am not sure if you have to keep giving them those drops.
It is better to check that with someone experienced.
I do not think that those drops should be given on a continuous basis.

If they are not pinkies, how old are they? - without knowing their age and seeing them, it is hard to give any suggestions.
Eyes open? Ears open? Furry?...

You won't be able to post any pics because you just joined and all options are not available to newly registered people until a couple of days after.

I have a phone number of a very experienced person who can guide you regarding the drops, bugs and much more.
SHe won't take your babies, but she will share her knowledge.
I cannot stay on the board for much longer because I have things to do.
So, if you would like her number, please email me within the next 15-20 min.
After that , I will not be able to keep up with the thread

[Orphan Mom]

I posted a picture in post number three. It shows up for me ?? Also, I posted the age and weight in post number three and I quoted it in the last message.

Very confused.

[astra]

I posted a picture in post number three. It shows up for me ?? Also, I posted the age and weight in post number three and I quoted it in the last message.

Very confused.
there are no pics in there.
You won't be able to post pics today because you just registered.

Yes, you posted age and weight and that's great.
BUT very often an experienced eye can spot a problem that has nothing to do with age and/or weight by just looking at babies. So photos are important.

[pappy1264]

I would switch to the goats milk formula for now and slowly get them onto the fv when it arrives. The gm is easier to digest. You may want to add in plain water in between feedings to help with extra hydration, as well. Also, if you can go to your local pharmacy and ask for some 1 cc syringes, it would be better for now then the 3 cc (tell them you found an orphaned kitten) and ask for needless syringes, most are happy to give a couple to you. I know you have done this before, but make sure you keep the formula quite warm while feeding, if it cools it can also cause stomach issues. And you may want to make up a small rice buddy to hold them on while feeding to keep their body temp up as well.

[Jackie in Tampa]

WElcome and thank you for helping the baby squirrels.
If you find you need help, TSB has 3 fantastic members scattered in different areas of Arkansas. All will be great help and have experience and supplies.
Dipty Dane is in FT Smith,
Ryglehart is in the north central area near Flippin,
and Sassy Squirrel in in Texarkana

You are getting great help.
Dilute natural (no addded sugar)apple juice can be used as a gentle
laxative and will help with hydration also.
:Love_Icon baby sqs:Love_Icon

[Orphan Mom]

I would switch to the goats milk formula for now and slowly get them onto the fv when it arrives. The gm is easier to digest. You may want to add in plain water in between feedings to help with extra hydration, as well. Also, if you can go to your local pharmacy and ask for some 1 cc syringes, it would be better for now then the 3 cc (tell them you found an orphaned kitten) and ask for needless syringes, most are happy to give a couple to you. I know you have done this before, but make sure you keep the formula quite warm while feeding, if it cools it can also cause stomach issues. And you may want to make up a small rice buddy to hold them on while feeding to keep their body temp up as well.

Yes, the 3 cc is what I had on hand, and it's all that Tractor Supply had either. I will check with a pharmacy, thanks. The FV should be in today or tomorrow, so I don't want to buy the stuff to make the gm formula, and have to transition them to that, and then transition them to the FV. Now that I have them hydrated, unbloated, and pooping and peeing freely, I think we can hold on until the new formula gets here. I am using the heating pad and polar fleece mini blankies when I feed them. I am, however, going to have to figure out a way to keep the milk warm while I'm taking turns feeding them.

[Orphan Mom]

Oh yeah, I figured out that I linked to a picture that's on a members only site. Duh.

Here they are.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21122718@N06/6917564437/

If that's not working, here is the link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21122718@N06/6917564437/).

Ears loose & open. Eyes closed but seamed. Bottom teeth through. Short gray fuzz on top with white fuzz visible on chin. I'm guess about 3 weeks.

[patjones]

Be sure when you order the FV to order some O ring syringes those ones with the big black stopper get sticky really fast and it is so easy to kill a baby with a squirt you did not intent with them. The O ring ones stay smooth a long long time

[Orphan Mom]

WElcome and thank you for helping the baby squirrels.
If you find you need help, TSB has 3 fantastic members scattered in different areas of Arkansas. All will be great help and have experience and supplies.
Dipty Dane is in FT Smith,
Ryglehart is in the north central area near Flippin,
and Sassy Squirrel in in Texarkana

You are getting great help.
Dilute natural (no addded sugar)apple juice can be used as a gentle
laxative and will help with hydration also.
:Love_Icon baby sqs:Love_Icon

Thanks for the help and additional info. The first 2 or 3 days are so critical, I just knew it was really important to get them warm, hydrated, eliminating, and fed. I feel much better now. They are obviously feeling a lot better today. Both have really gotten their appetites now.

Oh, I have missed having a silly squirrelly around! :monkey

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

A baby squirrel ball!!:rotfl
How cute are they foxers???
Keep asking questions...There is no such thing as a dumb question.

[Orphan Mom]

No, they are just little gray squirrels. We hardly have any fox squirrels in central AR :(

"Squirrel ball" INORITE! SO CUTE! This will be the first time I've raised more than one at a time. I'm so glad. I worried so much about Gus socializing with others. In the end he did fine (he came back to visit the last two times with a friend), but I still think this will be better.

[madtowntom]

They are gorgeous and look very healthy - great job!

I am a bit jealous - we are still 4-6 weeks away from the first litters here in the North. I always enjoy the first couple of sets of orphans each summer the most!