CALCIUM SUPPLEMENT

[Charley Chuckles]

This is some information we received from Dr. Emerson's wonderful presentation :thumbsup
Here is some info on NUTROBAL which Dr. Emerson recommends.....she has been working with a specialist in England who raises squirrels and has studied her diet/I went to the internet and found this it is a reptile supplement and Dr. Emerson said it was the best she has seen...I will be ordering it I am not sure if it is sold here in pet stores as all the sights are from UK that I have found so far. Some of the info is about reptiles and such there are 2 other products they sell and talk about however the one we would be interested in is "Nutrobal"....
I hope this will be of some help for calcium issues...also not only is it safe to sprinkle just a small amount over their food DAILY Dr. Emerson suggests that as well as Also 20 to 30 minutes DAILY of sunlight.

Nutrobal is a calcium balancer and multivitamin supplement to help growth in snakes, lizards and tortoises.

It is high in calcium and vitamin D3 which are essential to maintain proper bone growth in reptiles.

It also contains other important vitamns and minerals.

It is especially important for young growing animals and breeding animals.

It can be dusted onto food.


Nutrobal Calcium Balancer - Supplement For Reptiles

Nutrobal Calcium Balancer - Supplement For Reptiles
A high potency calcium balancer & multivitamin supplement to help bone growth in lizards & tortoises.

Nutabol is a veterinary developed vitamin/ mineral supplement specifically formulated as a high calcium "balancer " for insectivorous reptiles and birds, to assist in correcting the inadequate levels of calcium present in live insectivorous foods such as crickets and mealworms.

The Calcium:Phosphorus ratio is very important in ensuring healthy bone growth, and reproductive function and this potent supplement with a Ca:P ratio of 46:1 is extremely valuable in correcting deficient diets.

Nutrobal is particularly important for those species fed primarily on insects such as mealworms or locusts. Nutrobal can be used as a dusting powder.

Some species fed mainly lean meat also benefit from the use of Nutrobal, as will growing chelonia which need calcium for their shells and the larger lizards and crocodilia for their normal bone development.

Contents per gram: 200mg calcium and 150IU D3 plus vitamins A E K B1 B2 B6 B12 C, folic acid, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, biotin choline inositol niacin and minerals Na Fe Co I Mn Zn Se Cu.





Vetark Nutrobal is a product we highly recommend. It is a vitamin/mineral dusting powder.

Nutrobal is used worldwide by vets to correct dietary imbalances and by herpetologists for routine supplementation of growing reptiles and amphibians.

As animals grow to adulthood and their calcium needs fall then we suggest ARKVITS which also supplies significant levels of vitamins A, C and E which help in stressful times such as breeding.

ACE-High is a specialist supplement used to correct deficiencies in vitamin A, C or E, or when animals are especially stressed.

Typical calcium deficient foods which should be supplemented include:

* Crickets
* Mealworms


Can you overdose on Nutrobal?
In theory yes, in practice no. ie the same comment that applies to table salt. We've sold it for 20 years now and have never had a problem. Vets routinely overdose when treating metabolic bone disease in reptiles.

What exactly is Nutrobal?
Nutrobal is a high calcium vitamin mineral supplement, designed to 'balance' calcium deficient diets such as insects or meat especially, it is based around a very specific particle size of calcium which sticks to crickets etc. Its use has been the main reason for the decline in cases of metabolic bone disease over the last 15 years, it has been extraordinarily effective and its recommended by every UK reptile vet that we are aware of.
If I dusted live foods purely in Nutrobal would I need to supplement with calci-dust?
If you dust with Nutrobal you don't need Calci-Dust, the reason for Calci-Dust comes from the increased use of better quality UV lights. When we first developed Nutrobal UV lights were either rubbish or dangerous, so we said use Nutrobal every day and just use full spectrum lighting. Now with full spectrum lighting combined with UV you could (but you would have to try quite hard) run into toxicity due to high D3 (because its also produced in the skin by the UV). Because of the theoretical risk (people also sometimes use other D3 sources as well which compound the problem) our advice is to use Nutrobal and Calci-Dust on alternate feedings if you have a quality UV source in the vivarium. Its simple and it works.

How often would you use (supplement diets with):
• Calci-dust
• Nutrobal
• Arkvits
We recommend dusting every feed. That way crickets are always dusted in something, this is important because reptiles come to realise that if they don't eat them at all then somebody will put brown untreated ones in at the next feed day. Of course if they leave the white ones long enough.

How many crickets should I put in?
Enough to be eaten in 15-20 minutes as a rough guide. If you put too many in then they clean the dusting powder off - depending on a variety of factors but often an hour or so. Don't leave crickets or locusts in the vivarium for too long, they will actually nibble the skin of snakes in particular.
I use nutrobal for my parrots and I also have chickens which at the moment are laying soft shelled eggs despite everything I have tried, I was wondering if it was ok to give nutrobal to the chickens as a way to increase the vitamin D3 they are getting.

Yes you can use Nutrobal as a Calcium Source for your Chickens.
My tortoises are too small to hibernate but are dozy all the time, as they are not eating anything I would like to know if it is possible to put Nutrobal in the water as they bathe.

Nutrobal is for dusting on the food, it isn't water soluble. If you are keeping the tortoises awake through the winter you will need a proper vivarium and heat lamp, otherwise they will simply stay half awake not eating and losing weight. Just bathing them daily isn't enough, they will have problems. Contact a local vet.

I purchased a tub of Nutrobal for regular dusting of crickets for my Leopard & Crested Geckos. Usually my Leopard Geckos are happy to eat a calcium supplement straight from a food bowl, and I was just wondering whether it is safe to use the Nutrobal in a similar fashion?

Nutrobal isn't formulated to be fed adlib from a bowl, it is designed for dusting onto food or coating crickets. That means they get the right level of D3 and the other vitamins in Nutrobal. So dust all your crickets with Nutrobal and leave access to calcium such as Calci-Dust in the food bowl.
I wondered if Nutrabal is ok to be the only source of calcium for young veiled chameleon females and whether once a week is sufficient

We would recommend Nutrobal and Calci-Dust on alternate feeds. If you only dust once a week then all that happens is that the animal avoids the odd looking white crickets because tomorrow there will be a brown one (or later that day!).
I keep seeing the bulletin boards say that vitamin D3 deteriorates fast - is it true??

Yes, vitamin D3 can deteriorate quickly. We are aware of a lot of debate on this and we have tried to clarify it.

The particular vitamin D3 we use has been tested in harsh conditions - up to 40degC and has been shown to deteriorate at a rate of less than 1% a month. We already include a small overage in the the product to compensate for this, so we are confident that meaningful levels are there well beyond the 6-9months that we recommend as the time you should change to a new pot!

Remember vitamin products are foods and should be replaced with fresh product.

[Charley Chuckles]

Also something I found out was I was feeding Charley Chuckles & Little Girl Cheerios and shredded wheat. Dr. Emerson said that was nothing but pure carbohydrates :osnap I know it isn't good for humans so I don't know why I thought it was good for squirrels :shakehead Also many fruits/veggies have a very high phosphorus ratio and isn't the best either :sanp3 However don't despair a daily dusting of Nutrobal which she recommends will help somewhat :thumbsup Along with a healthy diet so that means not very many nuts and when feeding nuts the ones in the shell are the best because as Dr. Emerson said the shell is the only healthy part of the nut to a squirrel/the rest is a treat :D Also using when available healthy food from your yard tree branches such as Oak etc. (making sure not poisonous :nono )
I will be ordering the calcium supplement Nutrobal today and will use it daily on CC & LG food :thumbsup

[island rehabber]

Thanks CC --
We will be updating the Nutrition section and the MBD section as well, integrating what we learned from Dr Emerson. I haven't had a chance to do this formally but it's great that you've got at least the Nutrobal on here. Let's move it out of Off-Tpic and into Nutrition.....it couldn't be more "ON" topic for a Squirrel Board :D:thumbsup

[grinn75]

Another good one is Repti Calcium by ZooMed. It comes with or without D3 and is available at most major pet stores. ZooMed also makes the lights Dr. E was talking about too which I've purchased at Pet Smart.

www.zoomed.com (http://www.zoomed.com)

[Charley Chuckles]

Another good one is Repti Calcium by ZooMed. It comes with or without D3 and is available at most major pet stores. ZooMed also makes the lights Dr. E was talking about too which I've purchased at Pet Smart.

www.zoomed.com (http://www.zoomed.com)
Another thing about the lights Dr. Emerson explained which I didn't know was that after 3 to 6 months they need to be replaced. The bulb will still light but the element which produces the light spectrum need will be burned out .......so make sure to replace regularly if you use them. I am lucky I live in Florida so I just go sit in the sun with CC & LG 20 to 30 minutes each daily.....which Dr. Emerson said was the amount they need in the sun minimum 20/30 minutes :thumbsup And that it is their skin which absorbs the light not really through their hair/so their nose pads of feet I would think their ears as well :thumbsup

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I am waiting for a call back from Ravenwood, Dr E's office to ge the web site she orders the Nutrobal from.

I knew about the sun from raising puppies, when a dogs nose starts to loose it shiny black look, and get lighter in color, it is bscause they arent getting enough D from the sun!!
I am like Abby, 20-30 a day in the sun with my baby,good for me too:D
Will there be a print out or video of her lecture for those of us who missed it??

[Charley Chuckles]

I am waiting for a call back from Ravenwood, Dr E's office to ge the web site she orders the Nutrobal from.

I knew about the sun from raising puppies, when a dogs nose starts to loose it shiny black look, and get lighter in color, it is because they aren't getting enough D from the sun!!
I am like Abby, 20-30 a day in the sun with my baby,good for me too:D
Will there be a print out or video of her lecture for those of us who missed it??
I sent Dr. Emerson an email asking which sight she uses to order the Nutrobal/I know she is a busy lady :D
I tried one sight went through all the order process when it got to what country your are in it didn't have United States :soapbox so I was just going to see if I could find another one but I will wait then :thumbsup Also need to use a conversion chart because it is all in pounds :osnap looks cheap till ya check out our money doesn't go as far....one sight was $12.98 for 250grams /USA price would be $20.35/which can fluctuate daily :shakehead However still well worth the price, ANYTHING for Charley Chuckles & Little Girl :thumbsup
Hey SSM maybe you need to give them another call :poke :D I will let you bug them :hidechair :rofl4

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I did call again .........
calling third time now

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Good news: she is sending the web site to me

Bad news: Its in Europe

[djarenspace9]

See if there are discounts by volume...I need it too!
Maybe we can do a big order combined to reduce shipping costs.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

See if there are discounts by volume...I need it too!
Maybe we can do a big order combined to reduce shipping costs.
Good plan!!

[Charley Chuckles]

I am going to get HHB there are several products on Heneys I want to try and they are made specifically for squirrels :thumbsup

[mpetys]

See if there are discounts by volume...I need it too!
Maybe we can do a big order combined to reduce shipping costs.

Just a thought here but I wonder if Dr. Emerson would consider buying in quantity and having available for sale through her clinic. Maybe she could buy at a good enough price that even with her mark up it may be better than what others could get it for. I wonder what the shelf life is on it?

[island rehabber]

Guys, this is an excellent thread so I'm just giving you all an update which may help: I'm currently waiting for a response from Dr Emerson regarding where TSB should be with regard to recommending supplemental calcium or other vitamins, concurrent with feeding the Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels. In other words, we want to know whether, if a squirrel is being fed the Healthy Diet which includes HHB's, there is even a need for additional supplementation or not. I would hold off on ordering anything -- especially from over the pond -- until we hear back from the good Doc. :):peace

[island rehabber]

ZooMed also makes the lights Dr. E was talking about too which I've purchased at Pet Smart.

www.zoomed.com (http://www.zoomed.com)


Per Dr E: remember that in order for ANY of these lights to be effective you MUST remove the "shield" that is often attached under the light bulb. It prevents the UVB from reaching the squirrel, and defeats the purpose.

[mpetys]

Since the video of Dr. Emerson's presentation hasn't been posted yet, are there any handouts that could be posted or emailed regarding Dr. Emerson's presentation so those of us that did not attend could have benefit of what was discussed? I know I have read that it was enlightening and interesting and am looking forward to getting benefit of the presentation even though I was not able to attend.

I would be curious to know how many members actually use the indoor UVB lights for their squirrels. From what I understand, not only do you have to remove that shield, but the maximum on those bulbs is 10" that the UVB actually works. You have to keep the squirrel at that distance from the bulb for about 20 minutes. Not an easy task I would think. I can just see MonkeyButt swinging on the lamp when it is not on! :eek:

[Milo's Mom]

Since the video of Dr. Emerson's presentation hasn't been posted yet, are there any handouts that could be posted or emailed regarding Dr. Emerson's presentation so those of us that did not attend could have benefit of what was discussed? I know I have read that it was enlightening and interesting and am looking forward to getting benefit of the presentation even though I was not able to attend.


The handouts and the videos from the Gathering are ready to go; HOWEVER, we are waiting for permission from Dr. Emerson to post her presentation handouts and also the portion of the video of which she's in.

As soon as we hear from her everything will be posted including Dr. Emerson's portion (if she is okay with it). If she is not, then the presentations from IR & Anne and those corresponding videos will be posted.

Trust me...the information contained in such is not going to change, so please be patient while we await approval from Dr. Emerson to post her presentation/video. Seeking approval is the appropriate, polite, and customary process.

[Charley Chuckles]

Just a thought here but I wonder if Dr. Emerson would consider buying in quantity and having available for sale through her clinic. Maybe she could buy at a good enough price that even with her mark up it may be better than what others could get it for. I wonder what the shelf life is on it?
Yes, vitamin D3 can deteriorate quickly. We are aware of a lot of debate on this and we have tried to clarify it.

The particular vitamin D3 we use has been tested in harsh conditions - up to 40degC and has been shown to deteriorate at a rate of less than 1% a month. We already include a small overage in the the product to compensate for this, so we are confident that meaningful levels are there well beyond the 6-9months that we recommend as the time you should change to a new pot!

Remember vitamin products are foods and should be replaced with fresh product.This is on the bottom part of the first post I put up in this thread.........I too am holding off as I am thinking the HHB would be a sufficient supplement for CC/I also believe there is a powder to be sprinkled over the food same as the Nutrobal which interest me as I have always mixed up 4 different products to produce the supplement I give to CC....so waiting on more info :thumbsup :thankyou

[Charley Chuckles]

Since the video of Dr. Emerson's presentation hasn't been posted yet, are there any handouts that could be posted or emailed regarding Dr. Emerson's presentation so those of us that did not attend could have benefit of what was discussed? I know I have read that it was enlightening and interesting and am looking forward to getting benefit of the presentation even though I was not able to attend.

I would be curious to know how many members actually use the indoor UVB lights for their squirrels. From what I understand, not only do you have to remove that shield, but the maximum on those bulbs is 10" that the UVB actually works. You have to keep the squirrel at that distance from the bulb for about 20 minutes. Not an easy task I would think. I can just see MonkeyButt swinging on the lamp when it is not on! :eek:
I can't imagine having it in the cage it would have to be outside somehow so no chew chew :nono I tried one once with a poll lamp outside the cage but it was never close enough for long enough :osnap Also even if the bulb still lights you need to replace it every 6 months because the spectrum they need has burnt out :thumbsup Lucky I am in Florida and between CC and LG I get at least an hour of sun a day :shine However Dr. Emerson said to have a smaller cage and put your baby in that the light above for 20 minutes a day if they can't be taken outside/just make sure it is not too close they get hot :tilt

[mpetys]

I can't imagine having it in the cage it would have to be outside somehow so no chew chew :nono I tried one once with a poll lamp outside the cage but it was never close enough for long enough :osnap Also even if the bulb still lights you need to replace it every 6 months because the spectrum they need has burnt out :thumbsup Lucky I am in Florida and between CC and LG I get at least an hour of sun a day :shine However Dr. Emerson said to have a smaller cage and put your baby in that the light above for 20 minutes a day if they can't be taken outside/just make sure it is not too close they get hot :tilt

I have an Ott floor lamp (not for the squirrels, for me!) and when I let anyone out to run around and have out of cage time, I have to watch the lamp as they all think it is something placed there for them to climb on! I think I have seen someone's set up where the lamp was suspended over the cage and protected in wire.

But you're right! We're in Florida so what's to worry. My guys get rolled out on the front porch and soon I will be able to roll them out on the back porch for outside time.

[Charley Chuckles]

I have an Ott floor lamp (not for the squirrels, for me!) and when I let anyone out to run around and have out of cage time, I have to watch the lamp as they all think it is something placed there for them to climb on! I think I have seen someone's set up where the lamp was suspended over the cage and protected in wire.

But you're right! We're in Florida so what's to worry. My guys get rolled out on the front porch and soon I will be able to roll them out on the back porch for outside time.
:thumbsup :D

[island rehabber]

You lucky Floridians! Some of you guys mght remember the winter of 2010-2011, when I was overwintering five (Gracie, Chou, Guido, Teresa and Shanti) and was in a constant state of anxiety about them getting MBD....I would get up at sunrise and shut the bedroom door so as not to freeze out the BF....even had to stuff a towel in the bottom of the door to prevent drafts. THEN I opened the living room slider and let the sunshine and the 20* - 25* "breezes" blow in, for an hour. You haven't lived until you've invited a NY waterfront winter INSIDE your home.....:sanp3CM2029

[Charley Chuckles]

You lucky Floridians! Some of you guys mght remember the winter of 2010-2011, when I was overwintering five (Gracie, Chou, Guido, Teresa and Shanti) and was in a constant state of anxiety about them getting MBD....I would get up at sunrise and shut the bedroom door so as not to freeze out the BF....even had to stuff a towel in the bottom of the door to prevent drafts. THEN I opened the living room slider and let the sunshine and the 20* - 25* "breezes" blow in, for an hour. You haven't lived until you've invited a NY waterfront winter INSIDE your home.....:sanp3CM2029
OK NO WAY not even by the hair on my chiny chin chin :nono I guess I would have to make my whole ceiling sun lamps (the trusted full spectrum called for :thumbsup ) and crank the heat up too :osnap but I hate artificial heat my nose closes up and bleeds I would need a transfusion after a couple weeks :soapbox After that I would install enough humidifiers to peal the paint off the walls enough humidity to sustain a full grown lizard because that is what I really am most like/need full hot sun and high humidity :jump OK I stay here then :thumbsup Florida wants me :D :shine

[Charley Chuckles]

Just thinking :thinking I know scary right :poke :rotfl LG still takes Fox Valley even though she is about 7 months and I hope she will always take it as it has so many beneficial qualities to it :thumbsup She also eats a variety of foods just Like CC....anyway I was wondering would she still require as much light :dono I always thought when on FV they are getting plenty of D3 :dono ...I still plan to take her outside daily she enjoys it/I may start taking her on my walks (of course she will be carried) but she does have a harness and she will be getting her sun all at the same time :D

[Garden71]

You lucky Floridians! Some of you guys mght remember the winter of 2010-2011, when I was overwintering five (Gracie, Chou, Guido, Teresa and Shanti) and was in a constant state of anxiety about them getting MBD....I would get up at sunrise and shut the bedroom door so as not to freeze out the BF....even had to stuff a towel in the bottom of the door to prevent drafts. THEN I opened the living room slider and let the sunshine and the 20* - 25* "breezes" blow in, for an hour. You haven't lived until you've invited a NY waterfront winter INSIDE your home.....:sanp3CM2029


I know what that fells like working at LGA airport with the wind blowing in off the bay!!!!
BRRRRRRR.....:thumbsup

[Busysqrl]

OK, I'm playing devils advocate here. . .has anyone tested their squirrel's urine ph? Normal squirrel urine ph should be somewhere between 6.4 (wild squirrels per a 1976 study) and about 7.5. I've been feeding the healthy diet with less than 1 nut per day and a calcium supplement of 133mg per day and magnesium and vit D both at 2.5:1 ratio with calcium being 2.5. Both my squirrels act and behave completely normal. On a routine urine test, both my squirrels ph was 9!!! That is WAY too high. Calcium is an alkalizing mineral and too much will raise your ph to be too alkaline. Both my squirrels were also excreting a LOT of calcium in their urine. Excess will of course be excreted in the urine, but this was a crazy amount. So I started reducing the calcium and the ph is starting to come down.

There has been a lot of research on this (it's all over the internet) and if you have the proper calcium/magneisum/vit d ratio, you need a lot less calcium because more of the calcium is absorbed. I encourage everyone to have their squirrel's urine tested for ph. It's just as bad to have too high of a ph as too low. Both ends of the spectrum can produce crystals and stones in the urine although of different types. My squirrels don't have any crystals in the urine yet, but I'm trying to correct the ph before something bad does happen.

I know this won't be popular, but if you think about it, where do wild squirrels get that much calcium? Yes they get some from chewing on bones and antlers, but where else do they get it in large amounts?

Just food for thought. I'd be interested to know exactly how much calcium this vet recommends for a squirrel and what the other diet of the squirrels are they've done this study on as well as what their urine ph is?

[CritterMom]

OK, I'm playing devils advocate here. . .has anyone tested their squirrel's urine ph? Normal squirrel urine ph should be somewhere between 6.4 (wild squirrels per a 1976 study) and about 7.5. I've been feeding the healthy diet with less than 1 nut per day and a calcium supplement of 133mg per day and magnesium and vit D both at 2.5:1 ratio with calcium being 2.5. Both my squirrels act and behave completely normal. On a routine urine test, both my squirrels ph was 9!!! That is WAY too high. Calcium is an alkalizing mineral and too much will raise your ph to be too alkaline. Both my squirrels were also excreting a LOT of calcium in their urine. Excess will of course be excreted in the urine, but this was a crazy amount. So I started reducing the calcium and the ph is starting to come down.

There has been a lot of research on this (it's all over the internet) and if you have the proper calcium/magneisum/vit d ratio, you need a lot less calcium because more of the calcium is absorbed. I encourage everyone to have their squirrel's urine tested for ph. It's just as bad to have too high of a ph as too low. Both ends of the spectrum can produce crystals and stones in the urine although of different types. My squirrels don't have any crystals in the urine yet, but I'm trying to correct the ph before something bad does happen.

I know this won't be popular, but if you think about it, where do wild squirrels get that much calcium? Yes they get some from chewing on bones and antlers, but where else do they get it in large amounts?

Just food for thought. I'd be interested to know exactly how much calcium this vet recommends for a squirrel and what the other diet of the squirrels are they've done this study on as well as what their urine ph is?

Oh, I'm happy to see this because I know how the fear of MBD can push one to oversupplement. How did you get the urine tested? Was this something OTC or did you need to have a vet do it?

[Busysqrl]

Oh, I'm happy to see this because I know how the fear of MBD can push one to oversupplement. How did you get the urine tested? Was this something OTC or did you need to have a vet do it?

The initial test was done by my vet. Since then I purchased the chemical reagent strips on the internet and have been testing every day.

You can buy the chemical reagent strips over the internet that test for all kinds of things. Right now I have the strips that are a 10 square strip and they test for blood in the urine, keytones, leukocytes, etc. But I did just order some strips that test ONLY ph and they are highly sensitve. I'm not sure if I can post the link here (not sure if it's allowed), so I'll pm you the link for them. They aren't expensive. I think with shipping, they were only about $13. The ones that test for other things besides ph are considerably more expensive.

[mpetys]

The initial test was done by my vet. Since then I purchased the chemical reagent strips on the internet and have been testing every day.

You can buy the chemical reagent strips over the internet that test for all kinds of things. Right now I have the strips that are a 10 square strip and they test for blood in the urine, keytones, leukocytes, etc. But I did just order some strips that test ONLY ph and they are highly sensitve. I'm not sure if I can post the link here (not sure if it's allowed), so I'll pm you the link for them. They aren't expensive. I think with shipping, they were only about $13. The ones that test for other things besides ph are considerably more expensive.

I don't think there is any rule against links, I see them quite often. I would like this info too so if you don't want to post the link, please PM the info to me too! Thanks!

[Busysqrl]

I don't think there is any rule against links, I see them quite often. I would like this info too so if you don't want to post the link, please PM the info to me too! Thanks!


Assuming there's no rule against links, here's the link to where I just bought my ph strips.

http://www.phionbalance.com/ph-balancing-products/ph-test-strips

I would be very interested in the results anyone who tests gets. Thanks!

[mpetys]

Assuming there's no rule against links, here's the link to where I just bought my ph strips.

http://www.phionbalance.com/ph-balancing-products/ph-test-strips

I would be very interested in the results anyone who tests gets. Thanks!


It would be interesting if those that decided to test would get together and share results and info about the squirrel that was tested including type of squirrel, age, sex, any medical history and complete diet. Who knows, maybe we might learn something from this. I'll order some strips today. :thumbsup

[Busysqrl]

It would be interesting if those that decided to test would get together and share results and info about the squirrel that was tested including type of squirrel, age, sex, any medical history and complete diet. Who knows, maybe we might learn something from this. I'll order some strips today. :thumbsup


I think that's an EXCELLENT idea!!!

[Charley Chuckles]

:thankyou so much Busysqrl I see now on line only $9.95 :thumbsup Also could you put the sight of the strips that test everything...I would really like to know that at least first off with my CC then I want to do routine with the regular strips :D
I knock on wood now but my CC has been doing great for some time now and he has been a problem child from the get go as Dr. Emerson knows she is CC's pediatrician :bowdown CC never complains but mommy has been through the wringer more than I care to admit :tilt However I have been using the same Calcium with D/Magnesium with Potassium/Vetri-DMG/Immune Barrier for the past at least 2 years maybe longer all mixed in the water he drinks (and when I carry him around I put it in a bottle cap so I know he is drinking enough) anyway I have had such great results I really hate to change to something else....I am sure each squirrel is different like people [I am just reading a book "Eat right for your Type" which is about your blood type what you should and should not eat/man was I way off :shakehead but I assume squirrels all have the same type :thinking ] but before I decide to change anything I really want to check his ph :thumbsup
Appreciate the info Busysqrl :D

[Charley Chuckles]

It would be interesting if those that decided to test would get together and share results and info about the squirrel that was tested including type of squirrel, age, sex, any medical history and complete diet. Who knows, maybe we might learn something from this. I'll order some strips today. :thumbsup
I'm in :thumbsup Ordering strips now :D

[Busysqrl]

Hi Abby,

I get other test strips through Amazon. Here are several different brands and also generics that are cheaper, but I choose the name brand in this case as they get more positive feedback from customers who have purchased them and I want as accurate of a reading as I can get. Here's the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Multistix-10-100-Test-Strips/dp/B004WNSZGC/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329950079&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Make sure to gather your urine sample in something sterile or as close to sterile as you can get. You don't want it contaminated with anything INCLUDING soap. Soap is generally alkalizing, so if you must reuse whatever you're going to gather your specimen in, be sure to wash it well with soap and rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse to make sure no residue is left. :grouphug

[Charley Chuckles]

Hi Abby,

I get other test strips through Amazon. Here are several different brands and also generics that are cheaper, but I choose the name brand in this case as they get more positive feedback from customers who have purchased them and I want as accurate of a reading as I can get. Here's the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Multistix-10-100-Test-Strips/dp/B004WNSZGC/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329950079&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Make sure to gather your urine sample in something sterile or as close to sterile as you can get. You don't want it contaminated with anything INCLUDING soap. Soap is generally alkalizing, so if you must reuse whatever you're going to gather your specimen in, be sure to wash it well with soap and rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse to make sure no residue is left. :grouphug
OK the only thing is with CC his pee pee issue he has always had do to his paralysis will inhibit me from gathering a sample/I pretty much have to hold him and get a squirt on the strip :osnap do you think that will work :thinking I know Dr. Emerson was able to get a sample on a slide would the strip work the same way :dono

[mpetys]

I'm in :thumbsup Ordering strips now :D

If you haven't ordered yet, WAIT!!! I just ordered and used a coupon code and got an extra 30% off! The coupon code I used was loveph. I ordered two bottles and my total with shipping was $18.92! I saved $5.97.

[Busysqrl]

OK the only thing is with CC his pee pee issue he has always had do to his paralysis will inhibit me from gathering a sample/I pretty much have to hold him and get a squirt on the strip :osnap do you think that will work :thinking I know Dr. Emerson was able to get a sample on a slide would the strip work the same way :dono


What you're looking for on a slide is different than testing for ph. The directions for how to collect the urine depends on which strips you buy. The multistrips say to collect the urine and not to pee directly on the strip. For the multistrips, each little square on the strip has a different timing. For instance, for ph you read the ph square at 40 seconds, for the leukocytes, you read that square at 2 minutes. For that reason, it works better to collect in a little container so you can dip all the little squares at once and then quickly turn the strip horizontally so the colors on each square don't run together. Or you could collect in a little container and use a syringe to draw the urine up and drop on each little square one at a time. Either way. Whichever strips you use, just read all the instructions and follow them carefully. You also want to avoid the urine touching his fur as it will likely be contaminated with bacteria. That will throw off the ph and cause it to show more alkaline than it actually is.

[Charley Chuckles]

If you haven't ordered yet, WAIT!!! I just ordered and used a coupon code and got an extra 30% off! The coupon code I used was loveph. I ordered two bottles and my total with shipping was $18.92! I saved $5.97.
:thankyou haven't got to order yet /glad I waited:thumbsup

[Charley Chuckles]

What you're looking for on a slide is different than testing for ph. The directions for how to collect the urine depends on which strips you buy. The multistrips say to collect the urine and not to pee directly on the strip. For the multistrips, each little square on the strip has a different timing. For instance, for ph you read the ph square at 40 seconds, for the leukocytes, you read that square at 2 minutes. For that reason, it works better to collect in a little container so you can dip all the little squares at once and then quickly turn the strip horizontally so the colors on each square don't run together. Or you could collect in a little container and use a syringe to draw the urine up and drop on each little square one at a time. Either way. Whichever strips you use, just read all the instructions and follow them carefully. You also want to avoid the urine touching his fur as it will likely be contaminated with bacteria. That will throw off the ph and cause it to show more alkaline than it actually is.
OK so what you are saying is I just need to grow an extra arm :poke :rotfl I will do it somehow :tilt

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Just attach it to his vest , then he can dribble on it like Simon does.

[Busysqrl]

OK so what you are saying is I just need to grow an extra arm :poke :rotfl I will do it somehow :tilt

Is growing an extra arm a problem? :rotfl Can you stimulate him to get him to go? If so, can you put a cloth over his eyes, you hold him and have hubby stimulate him and hold the specimen container? That's what we have to do with Magnus, it's a definately a 2 person job. My other squirrel will pee right in the cup!

[Busysqrl]

Just attach it to his vest , then he can dribble on it like Simon does.


OMGosh, I just looked at your video of Simon in your signature line, what a little doll he is!!!! He sure gets around well and looks like he has no idea he's disabled. They are so great aren't they? They don't feel sorry for themselves, they totally live in the moment. It looks like his little back left leg works. Is it just the right back that doesn't work? Doesn't look like his tail works either? Can he puff it at all? Magnus' tail didn't work at all when we first got him, but it works great now. He can curl it over his back and puff it just fine. Course he's not paralyzed like Simon or Charley, but he's either had a broken back at one time or a serious congenital deformity that affects his mobility significantly. Ya just gotta love the little quirrels with disabilities, they are SO inspiring!

[Charley Chuckles]

Is growing an extra arm a problem? :rotfl Can you stimulate him to get him to go? If so, can you put a cloth over his eyes, you hold him and have hubby stimulate him and hold the specimen container? That's what we have to do with Magnus, it's a definately a 2 person job. My other squirrel will pee right in the cup!
But then hubby loses an arm :osnap remember CC is a one mommy squirrel and does not play well with others :poke no whatever needs to be done I must do it myself :sanp3 but I can I can I will :rotfl

[SquirrelCav]

I've been feeding the healthy diet with less than 1 nut per day and a calcium supplement of 133mg per day and magnesium and vit D both at 2.5:1 ratio with calcium being 2.5. Both my squirrels act and behave completely normal. On a routine urine test, both my squirrels ph was 9!!! That is WAY too high.

Are you feeding those supplements in addition to blocks, or instead of blocks? The Healthy Diet doesn't include any supplements.

- Jay

[Busysqrl]

Are you feeding those supplements in addition to blocks, or instead of blocks? The Healthy Diet doesn't include any supplements.

- Jay
Instead of blocks.

[mpetys]

But then hubby loses an arm :osnap remember CC is a one mommy squirrel and does not play well with others :poke no whatever needs to be done I must do it myself :sanp3 but I can I can I will :rotfl

I'm gonna need to see some how-to videos!:jump

[jo_schmoe]

Thank you for posting for those of us that couldn't attend the gathering...Ive always wanted to go and meet you ladies and gents....but 1000 miles is a very long way!!
I very interested in what Dr. E has to say about this topic....Ive been supplementing vit D since the foxers were about 3 months old.......and have had great results with both species.... I'd like to know how she feels about what Im using.....any word back from her yet??

[Amathis84]

As far as the regulat PH strips are concerned, you may be able to get these at any pool company or even lowes and walmart? PH is measured from 0-14 no matter what you're testing. If you can get the little one to pee on a hard (non-absorbent) surface you should be able to set the strip and have a few drops sit on the test side. Just make sure it sits flat. JUST A THOUGHT!!

As far as the D3 is it bad for gray squirrels? For some reason my brain keeps telling me that I have read somewhere to make sure not to give them Vitamin D... If this is safe for squirrels that would make supplementing a breeze!!

Thanks!!!

[island rehabber]

It just so happens that we now have the PDF files ready to post, of Dr Emerson's, Anne's and my presentation handouts. I am going to try doing this now in the appropriate forums, and hope the files aren't too big for TSB to handle.

Wizard Woman Milo's Mom :bowdown is working on how we can access the videos as well -- those files are enormous and require some techie wizardry to post.

It's all coming - hang in there folks.

[island rehabber]

It just so happens that we now have the PDF files ready to post, of Dr Emerson's, Anne's and my presentation handouts. I am going to try doing this now in the appropriate forums, and hope the files aren't too big for TSB to handle.



AAAARRGH!! :hissyfit:Cannon:madd:bricks:frustratedx:compownu: flush

the files are too big.

[jo_schmoe]

AAAARRGH!! :hissyfit:Cannon:madd:bricks:frustratedx:compownu: flush

the files are too big.



Can you upload them to photobucket...or youtube?? You can set them to private and give out the password to TSB members....:dono

[stosh2010]

AAAARRGH!! :hissyfit:Cannon:madd:bricks:frustratedx:compownu: flush

the files are too big.



Is there a way to post the files in "segments or chapters" to reduce the total file size.???

[island rehabber]

Is there a way to post the files in "segments or chapters" to reduce the total file size.???

Our VP of Operations, Technology and Wizardry, Milo's Mom, will be working exactly on that later today :thumbsup:thumbsup

[BigNibbler]

If its of any help in the future, just get me the video on a hard drive or any media and I can convert and upload it no problem editing or resizing as needed.
For a worthy cause!

[island rehabber]

If its of any help in the future, just get me the video on a hard drive or any media and I can convert and upload it no problem editing or resizing as needed.
For a worthy cause!

Wow, thank you MN -- we may be calling you shortly! :D

[Nancy in New York]

Our VP of Operations, Technology and Wizardry, Milo's Mom, will be working exactly on that later today :thumbsup:thumbsup

There is a God, I thought you were going to say "Our VP of Operations, Technology and Wizardry, Charley Chuckles".......:poke :poke :D

[Milo's Mom]

I just walked in the door and will immediately begin downsizing the files of the handouts. As soon as those are done and off to IR for posting, I will start the process of uploading the videos. I have a pretty fast connection, but these video files are MASSIVE, so it's gonna take awhile to get them uploaded, but I am actively working on it. :D

[island rehabber]

There is a God, I thought you were going to say "Our VP of Operations, Technology and Wizardry, Charley Chuckles".......:poke :poke :D

nonono, as the Chairman & CEO she'll have to sign off on it.....:icon_devil

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I think Abby would be able to chew on a computer just as well as any squirrel

[Charley Chuckles]

There is a God, I thought you were going to say "Our VP of Operations, Technology and Wizardry, Charley Chuckles".......:poke :poke :D
I thought the same thing at first :dono :poke :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

[Charley Chuckles]

I think Abby would be able to chew on a computer just as well as any squirrel
:osnap :poke :rotfl :rotfl

[Busysqrl]

As far as the regulat PH strips are concerned, you may be able to get these at any pool company or even lowes and walmart? PH is measured from 0-14 no matter what you're testing. If you can get the little one to pee on a hard (non-absorbent) surface you should be able to set the strip and have a few drops sit on the test side. Just make sure it sits flat. JUST A THOUGHT!!

As far as the D3 is it bad for gray squirrels? For some reason my brain keeps telling me that I have read somewhere to make sure not to give them Vitamin D... If this is safe for squirrels that would make supplementing a breeze!!

Thanks!!!
Hot tub testing strips do not test urine ph accurately. Not sure why , but they don't.

[Rex's Parents]

Hi, I've been reading some of the responses for the calcium supplements. There are soooo many. Our little guy Rex is losing hair and we are pretty sure that it's from needing this supplement. I checked Petco and Pet Smart and they have a supplement called Repti Cal. Is this something we can give him until we can get a light? My husband has been out of work for a year now and those lights are very expensive, but we will be getting on soon. Would a grow light work the same or does it have to be the reptile light? Also we saw something about those HHB blocks. Were can we get these at, is there a website to go to? Thanks for any help.

Rex's Parents

[Milo's Mom]

Hi, I've been reading some of the responses for the calcium supplements. There are soooo many. Our little guy Rex is losing hair and we are pretty sure that it's from needing this supplement. I checked Petco and Pet Smart and they have a supplement called Repti Cal. Is this something we can give him until we can get a light? My husband has been out of work for a year now and those lights are very expensive, but we will be getting on soon. Would a grow light work the same or does it have to be the reptile light? Also we saw something about those HHB blocks. Were can we get these at, is there a website to go to? Thanks for any help.

Rex's Parents
Hi Rex's Parents!
Rex may be losing some hair due to molt, which is normal. However, a good diet is of utmost importance too.
HHB's fed per the directions along with the Healthy Diet is a great way to go.
The Healthy Diet is a "sticky" in our Nutrition forum and as for ordering the HHB's...they can be ordered at http://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-diet/

The HHB's appear to be a little pricey at first, BUT 1 bag of HHB's will last approx. a month and at the end of the day they are actually less expensive than the commercial rodent block (at least in my area). The HHB's are NOT meant to be fed exclusively, they were designed to be fed in addition to the Healthy Diet. Commercial rodent block was designed to be fed exclusively. HHB's are a SUPPLEMENT.
Over the past year and a half, I have raised 12 squirrels, 5 of them have been released, 6 of them are being overwintered and will be released as soon as the trees leaf up, and 1 is an NR (she's my Princess and allows me to live in her castle with her :D)...they ALL love and eagerly eat their HHB's daily. I highly recommend them.

In order to keep them all on their toes and also to provide some variety in their diet, I switch up the blocks occasionally. I use the Growth, Adult, Picky Eaters, & Wild Bites formulas. Not all at the same time understandably, but one month they get 1 kind then the next month I might switch to a different kind and so on and so forth.

We are working on getting some clarification as to whether an additional "calcium supplement" is needed if you are feeding HHB's & the Healthy Diet. I, personally, do not use an additional supplement and do not see a reason to (at this time).

If I were you, I'd get Rex on the HHB's & Healthy Diet (if he is not already) BEFORE I went out and bought something "extra" to add to his food, especially since most of the commercially available supplemental powders were designed for reptiles.

[mpetys]

I wanted to share some information I recently found out in a thread I started discussing what rehabers feed their squirrels. I had tried the KayTee rat blocks and was currently using the Mazuri Rat and Mouse block purchased from PetsMart. I think I was paying $8 for 2 or 3 pounds. Doesn't sound like much, but I have been having around 30 squirrels plus still feeding my released squirrels. Then Crittermom posted::


Mazuri makes two different types of rat block - one for pet rats, which they sell in 20# bags for about $25 and one for "feeder" rats which is 50# for about $23. The difference between the two seems to be the amount of protein - the feeder rat (the cheaper stuff) is closer to what we do for our squirrels and the pet rat is quite high - 20+% protein... I buy the feeder rat to make the food for my wilds. It is softer and more porous than other rat blocks.

Purina makes Mazuri so a feed store that carries Purina feeds should be able to get it for you. I go through a 50# bag every two weeks! My wilds all look very fat and happy and OMG there are a lot of them. :D

BTW, it SMELLS...:shakehead

This has been great information I learned. My feed store carries the 50 pound bag for $24. And the squirrels are eating them. I have squirrels that I received from other TSB members to overwinter and release in spring and they are eating the Mazuri blocks also. I have four seven week old babies and they love them. I am surprised to see that squirrels that have been released, come back to their open release cage and eage the blocks and other foods I leave for them daily. The only thing Crittermom said that I haven't found is I haven't really found them to have an unpleasant smell to them. But, I have a stuffy nose most of the time so maybe that is keeping me from smelling a "smelly" smell!

UPDATE on ph strips, I got mine in and tried to get a sample from Davey. He tolerated me holding him and trying to stimulate him. But no pee. He would get antsy and I am guessing that maybe he was feeling the urge to pee and resisted. He seemed a bit alarmed at what I was doing. Almost like he was looking at me like we shared a dirty little secret! I will try getting up early and with hubby's help, try to get a sample in the morning. I still say we need a video. Charley Chuckles, did you get your strips in? Any luck?

[Milo's Mom]

Michele, am I correct in assume that you are feeding the commercial rat block as a complete diet? Meaning that your guys get a handful of commercial block and some veggies.

How long does it take you to go thru a 50# bag of the commercial rat block?

I believe you are feeding like 30+ squirrels, correct?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Hi Michelle,
If you don't mind could you post or PM me the feed store that sells the Mazuri 50lb bags. I feed the wild squirrels in my yard but now that I know better I can't feed them the corn/peanut/sunflower seed crap from Lowe's. I have been feeding then my frozen acorn stash. I know they don't NEED me to supply their food but I do enjoy watching them. I definitely can't afford to feed Petsmart block to wild squirrels.

Also, I'm holding off until after a big party I'm giving my mom for her 80th birthday in 3 weeks---but after that, I WANT BABIES. :jump

[mpetys]

Michele, am I correct in assume that you are feeding the commercial rat block as a complete diet? Meaning that your guys get a handful of commercial block and some veggies.

How long does it take you to go thru a 50# bag of the commercial rat block?

I believe you are feeding like 30+ squirrels, correct?

Hi MM! I don't just feed the Mazuri rat blocks. I have taken the advice of many here on the board and try to feed a variety of items, giving the squirrels choice and variety. I also feed the Zupreem FruitBlend pellets. Both get eaten. Some days some squirrels eat more of the Zupreem pellets while on other days they wipe out all their Mazuri Rat blocks. Many have recommended the Zupreem Primate Dry diet or also known as Monkey blocks. I have just purchased a 20 pound bag of that to add in to the mix for variety.

I did taken in 11 squirrels who were fed the Mazuri rat blockS as their main diet and got veggies every other day. When I got them, I kept them on the rat blocks but did provide veggies every day. I was not planning on adding the Zupreem bird pellets to their diet but when I refilled the bowl of the squirrels in an adjoining cage, I had squirrels trying their hardest to get to them through 1/4" wire mesh, so I decided to add a bit to their rat blocks as well.

As far as how much I go through, I am not really sure. Was recently kicking myself for not tracking that information for both the rat blocks and the Zupreem pellets. Am planning on trying to get that info when I open the next new bags.

I currently have 26 soon to be released squirrels and four NR's. I have 4 squirrels being delivered this afternoon and 4 seven week old babies. I have agreed to take an adult wild in to help her get back to the trees if possible. I got to where I can't keep up without doing a head count!

[mpetys]

Hi Michelle,
If you don't mind could you post or PM me the feed store that sells the Mazuri 50lb bags. I feed the wild squirrels in my yard but now that I know better I can't feed them the corn/peanut/sunflower seed crap from Lowe's. I have been feeding then my frozen acorn stash. I know they don't NEED me to supply their food but I do enjoy watching them. I definitely can't afford to feed Petsmart block to wild squirrels.

Also, I'm holding off until after a big party I'm giving my mom for her 80th birthday in 3 weeks---but after that, I WANT BABIES. :jump

First of all, a big Happy Birthday to your Mom!

I get the Mazuri rat blocks from Harolds Feed Store in Dover. They are on the corner of MLK and McIntosh. I buy feed for ducks, geese and chickens there every week and had no idea they even carried the rat blocks.

Crittermom posted a recipe for how she makes the blocks more enticing for the outdoor squirrels:


The name/ID# of the 50# bags of Mazuri is Mazuri Rodent 6F.

I "cook" mine - that is I mix them with a little bit of canola oil, a blob of penaut butter, stir it up and nuke them until the oil/PB mixture is boiling, hen allow them to cool. This drives the peanut butter taste through the blocks and the wilds don't even leave crumbs behind. It is the "cooking" that releases the smell - you wouldn't notice it otherwise.

That said, if I was going to be feeding my rehab squirrels instead of literally hundreds of wilds, I would go for the Harlan Teklad. They are very reasonably priced and I believe a better quality block than the Mazuri.

Oh, I see something I missed earlier. The smell is just when you cook them. I knew I didn't smell anything with my blocks! Hope this info helps!

What age babies will you be interested in? How many? I'll be happy to keep you in mind when I start getting more in. Last year, I had to quit taking babies in when I had so many I was barely getting any sleep.

[Charley Chuckles]

I received an email from Dr. Emerson last night and she said since it is so hard to get the Nutroball another good source of calcium/D3 for anyone interested the product is called Exo Terra Ca and D3. And it would be just a pinch sprinkled directly on food daily :thumbsup

[MomOf2squirrels]

I got a small container of repto cal today and sprinkled a little in their water. I was using powdered fox valley baby formula but ran out so got this stuff instead. I want to make sure they are healthy and strong, I am getting ready to release Galileo's babies in a couple months and then I will be down to one squirrel again and I am going to try and not let her outside during mating season again. Although the babies are sweet (well not that sweet they are pretty mean actually. I didn't handle them except for the runt of the litter who happens to be the meanest of all.) I can really only comfortably provide for Galileo. She is mostly a house squirrel but likes to go out roaming in the nice weather months. I raised her from a 4 week old baby. We are going on 3 years together.

[djarenspace9]

I received an email from Dr. Emerson last night and she said since it is so hard to get the Nutroball another good source of calcium/D3 for anyone interested the product is called Exo Terra Ca and D3. And it would be just a pinch sprinkled directly on food daily :thumbsup
Thank you Abby!

I was waiting patiently cause I know Dr. E did not want 15 of us bugging her about it!
That product is affordable and available in lots of stores...
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7DKUS&q=Exoterra+calcium&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1117&bih=601&wrapid=tlif133099448660410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8935936548458196550&sa=X&ei=PV1VT7bTKZTogQf7rZjFDQ&ved=0CF4Q8gIwBg#

[wheezer]

Just popping in with my 2 cents on a subject that hasn't been talked about.

I worked in a zoo years ago and they went to feeing the primate diet perfectly formulated nutritionally. It was very boring for the animals. In captivity they have little to do as they were meant to in the wild. Food is a big deal for them.
Zoos started realizing this and offered different real food through out the day.

So even though the rat blocks are the "perfect diet" the emotional side of being in captivity should be looked at too. Squirrels in the wild eat many many different foods and spend many hours doing this. I think it is sort of sad for captive squirrels to only be fed rat blocks with a few other things.
(I am not sure if any one does only rat blocks, that is the life of a lab rat)

Perhaps a good supplement along with the healthy diet is the best of both worlds...Just my opinion:tilt (even spread the food around so they have to move to find it:) )

[jo_schmoe]

Just popping in with my 2 cents on a subject that hasn't been talked about.

I worked in a zoo years ago and they went to feeing the primate diet perfectly formulated nutritionally. It was very boring for the animals. In captivity they have little to do as they were meant to in the wild. Food is a big deal for them.
Zoos started realizing this and offered different real food through out the day.

So even though the rat blocks are the "perfect diet" the emotional side of being in captivity should be looked at too. Squirrels in the wild eat many many different foods and spend many hours doing this. I think it is sort of sad for captive squirrels to only be fed rat blocks with a few other things.
(I am not sure if any one does only rat blocks, that is the life of a lab rat)



Perhaps a good supplement along with the healthy diet is the best of both worlds...Just my opinion:tilt (even spread the food around so they have to move to find it:) )
:goodpost :goodpost :goodpost
I could not agree more!

[mpetys]

Just popping in with my 2 cents on a subject that hasn't been talked about.

I worked in a zoo years ago and they went to feeing the primate diet perfectly formulated nutritionally. It was very boring for the animals. In captivity they have little to do as they were meant to in the wild. Food is a big deal for them.
Zoos started realizing this and offered different real food through out the day.

So even though the rat blocks are the "perfect diet" the emotional side of being in captivity should be looked at too. Squirrels in the wild eat many many different foods and spend many hours doing this. I think it is sort of sad for captive squirrels to only be fed rat blocks with a few other things.
(I am not sure if any one does only rat blocks, that is the life of a lab rat)

Perhaps a good supplement along with the healthy diet is the best of both worlds...Just my opinion:tilt (even spread the food around so they have to move to find it:) )

I couldn't agree with you more! I watch when they eat their salads, how they dig through their bowls, looking for their favorite items. How they may love one thing for a while then turn their nose up at it the next! While they have certain staples in their veggie bowls (romaine, avocado) I rotate the other items in their veggie bowls to give them variety and and choice. I like to give them a variety when it comes to their blocks as well. As with their salads, they get a staple, the ZuPreem Fruitblend pellets. They eats these with no problem every day. Just alone, this gives them variety and choice as they can pick what color, shape and flavor they want and, they do. I like to add one or two items from the following: Mazuri Ovals rat block, ZuPreem Primate Dry blocks or ZuPreem VeggieBlend pellets.

If I am releasing for another rehabber and their squirrels were raised on the Mazuri Ovals as their base for the block part of their diet, then I continue with that being the main block item but still adding the other items for variety. Those squirrels tend to switch over to the Fruitblend pellets as being their favorite. They also get their yummy salads every day as well.

They also get outside foods such as maple leaves and branches, hibiscus flowers, magnolia cones etc.

[CritterMom]

A note about the Mazuri - call around to your feed stores and find one that carries Purina (which is a huge, major feed manufacturer). Purina owns Mazuri, so a Purina dealer can order it if they don't have it. Since they get truckloads of stuff at a time, you won't be dealing with shipping costs like you would if you ordered it.

Yes, it is the cooking that releases the smell. I smell it in my dreams...:shakehead

[Charley Chuckles]

yes I do use a variety of veggies/some fruit (only what is on the OK list) I have never used blocks/at least not much I use supplement in the water but I am getting blocks I found the ones that were at the gathering both CC & LG like :D OK so what were they :dono
Also daily I climb 20 feet up an Oak tree for fresh branches (Yes I use a ladder :poke :rotfl ) I just pray that ladder doesn't move on me :eek: I don't recommend this :nono but do as I say not as I do :rofl4

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

also suggested by DrE is the Reptocal with d 3