Teeny Tiny's teeth

[tallysqueals]

Hello Everyone!
I posted recently asking for anyone with any information or experience with a semi-wild squirrel. I hope I am posting in the correct forum! I am at home visiting family for the holidays (HAPPY NEW YEAR!) and I have been totally stressed the entire time worrying about one of my released babies. Teeny Tiny was having breathing issues and it turned out to be her teeth. She has no upper front teeth and her bottom teeth had overgrown and pierced her nasal cavity. I took her to the person who runs the wildlife place here and she trimmed her teeth and told me it would have to be done every 2-3 weeks for the rest of her life and had me give her amoxicillan for a week. I called her yesterday to let her know that Teeny Tiny didn't seem to be getting better and she told me to take her to the vet. Teeny had an abscess that was making it difficult for her to breathe as well. The vet put her under and examined her for any tooth fragments in the upper tooth area and trimmed her teeth even shorter. He administered a 3 week antibiotic (the name escapes me at this time) and he sort of recommended that I consider euthanasia. I am at a loss for what to do. The vet said he didn't think that the quality of life was very good for squirrels with tooth issues that need lifetime maintanance. The other issue is that Teeny Tiny lives as a wild squirrel. She is 1.5 years old and has returned every single day of her life (usually 3 or more times per day) to eat the food that we leave out on the porch for her. I handraised her from 2 weeks old with her siblings and another baby and released them all together. All of the others left long ago but Teeny has religiously returned. In fact, I am able to go outside and call for her and she comes homes within 20 minutes of me doing so. Presumably she does not stray very far. I used to think that she did but since I have been home on this visit and can hear her breathing because of her tooth issue, I realize that she really only hangs out in the trees in the front, side, and backyard. She is resourceful and finds broken acorns (and probably other things to eat) but she is clearly relying on us for her main sustenance. She is a tough and rascal-y little being who is very good at taking care of herself. It is important to me, and most definitely her, that she remains as wild as she is. I have read the malocclusion posts on here and one thing that stood out to me is that sometimes it is easier to remove the offending teeth that must be constantly trimmed. Can this be done on a squirrel that lives outside? It would obviously be detrimental to her eating but it would prevent infection if I was unable to trap her sometime in the future (like if she had babies). I truly feel that her quality of life is good. She appears to be very healthy looking and the vet even called her a fat girl. She eats an extremely healthy diet of a variety of fruits, vegetables, squirrels blocks (THANKS TSB!), etc. I just need some guidance! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[astra]

Sorry to hear about this serious issue.

First of, with an issue like that and the need for regular teeth trimming she cannot live in the wild.
She needs to become a NR - non-releasable.
Since she was rehabbed, as I understand, she will be able to get used to the indoor life easier. But she needs to.
Even if you decide to recapture her every three weeks for teeth trimming that will be much more stressful because she will be sort of wild and being recaptured and handled for a wild squirrels is more stressful than for a indoor squirrel.

Also, if at one point you cannot recapture her, or if she decides to relocate some place else - that will be the beginning of a very painful end for her.
She needs to become a NR>

You do not need to euthanize her.
Squirrels with teeth problems have good lives as NRs: Milo's Mom's Ellie, Gina's Wayne, Jackie in Tampa's Rocky and many, many others.
Even squirrels with odontomae can live well.

I am sure, a lot of people will share their experiences.

You can contact Jackie in Tampa - send her a private message or an e-mail and she will share her experience.

But she should be brought inside and get used to living indoors.

[island rehabber]

astra is correct -- a squirrel that requires tooth clipping every few weeks CANNOT live in the wild. Anything that prevents her from returning home often enough (weather, a predator, simply 'wilding up' and exploring elsewhere) will cause her to become severely maloccluded and unable to eat, then die. :(

There is a paper written by a well-known rehabber who had a maloccluded squirrel's incisors pulled...then she released the squirrel. She contends that the squirrel did perfectly well for years in her yard -- they do not really need the incisors to chew; they have molars for that. Something to consider -- otherwise it's indoors for sure.

[tallysqueals]

This is what I am wondering...if Teeny Tiny didn't have her nut-crackin' teeth and only had molars, could she live outside? I realize she would not have a good biting defense but she would be protected from malocclusion and infection if she ever did leave. She only has the two lower teeth now and one is slightly loose. We fully intend to provide a healthy diet for the remainder of her life as long as she still comes back (she also still sleeps some nights in her baby nest that she has built up inside of her release cage). I am confused by all of this because she is 1.5 years old and has been living full on in the trees (with porch visits and some nights) for the past year. I am just very conflicted and worried that I will make a wrong decision. Thanks for letting me rant and for offering advice...off to look up that article.

[island rehabber]

Thanks for letting me rant and for offering advice...off to look up that article.

http://www.mary.cc/squirrels/malocclusion.htm :)

[Scooterzmom]

So good that you are thinking of her well being. However... you must also consider that for a squirrel who is a prey animal, the incisors are not only for cracking nuts and eating but a defence mechanism... unable to bite their predator they are left will little defence that could force a predator to let go of them. It is something to think about.

Like Astra, I think she would be much safer and would have a much better life indoors. At her age she is not so old that she could not adapt to a happy well balanced life inside with someone who truly loves her and provides all that she needs.

[astra]

actually, not so long ago there was a brief discussion here about a similar issue.
personally, i respectfully disagree with that rehabber whom IR mentioned - the one who released a toothless squirrel.

These teeth are much more than just nut-cracking devices for squirrels.
They are their weapon as well.
When in a fight with a predator, they fight with teeth, not so much claws - they grip with claws and bite with teeth.
If they have no incisors, they have nothing to bite with and hence, nothing to fight with.
They use their teeth when they fight with each other, too.
Without her teeth, she might end up losing her fights, thus, sliding down on the "totem pole" and becoming an easy target for bullies.


Also, if she ever ends up leaving your area, or gets chased away by another squirrel, she will not have a constant supply of food.
They need their incisors to rip things and bite into things, before they can chew them.
In the winter, when most "soft" foods as we know them are unavailable, and they end up eating more hard stuff, like bark and roots, they need their incisors to rip and bite that bark or root, before they can even chew them.

They use incisors to make those tree holes and such. They rip twigs and branches into tiny pieces to make their dreys.
Something she won't be able to do and she might need to do if she ever leaves your area.

Whatever that rehabber said in the article,
personally, I believe that releasing a toothless squirrel is similar to releasing a declawed cat.

[astra]

you must also consider that for a squirrel who is a prey animal, the incisors are not only for cracking nuts and eating but a defence mechanism... unable to bite their predator they are left will little defence that could force a predator to let go of them. It is something to think about.

At her age she is not so old that she could not adapt to a happy well balanced life inside with someone who truly loves her and provides all that she needs.
:goodpost

[tallysqueals]

Wow. That article is very interesting. I sort of feel like it is Teeny's life story. The lack of teeth being available for defense does concern me. I am wondering how Teeny has been as successful as she has with just two teeth (and one is loose to boot!). I think she is a weirdo in her squirrel community. I have seen her chase many squirrels from the porch (she gives them hell!) but I don't know why she has not bred yet...hopefully noone calls her bluff anytime soon and forces her to fight with her raggedy teeth. She had a very close relationship with her adopted sister but she moved on long ago. For tonight, which is supposed to get down to 26 degrees), Teeny is safe and inside...I have a lot of brainstorming to do. Please continue to post with any suggestions, experience, or opinions that you think are helpful. I seriously don't know what I would do without TSB.

[Jackie in Tampa]

bottom teeth float independently...only the top teeth are stationary.
Bottom incisors can move frontward and backward and side to side like a peace sing in sign language.
In a perfect world she would be safe ...
she is a squirrel, 1 pound...anything can have her anytime.
Knowing that she has survived thus far is the luck of the draw.
I have created a sanctuary setting in my backyard where the sqs are thick and happy, playfully entertaining...but that's inside the fence only!
The hawks fly overhead daily...the cats stalk the perimeters...there is no place safe for a sq really...adding a no teeth issue will put her in a different class all together...now not only does she need to worry with preditors but also starvation and infection.
Without consistant nutrition she may have immune system problems, allowing normal parasites the advantage. As Astra mentioned, she won't be able to protect herself from other sqs also.
TEETH are tools!
Hey, I am for whatever you feel you need to do...but know her life is in jeopardy at all times.
With that said, I also will be the first to say that most sqs do not see their first Birthday in the wild...between the dangerous issues humans have contributed, cats, dogs, poisons, cars and the natural preditors...sqs struggle to survive...they say the sqs that live past that 1 year mark should see age 3 in a good environment.:thumbsup
Knowing she is commpromised is worth worry.

food for thought...
a big cage outside attached to a window in your house...
imo...this is the perfect ideal situation for most captive sqs and especailly for one that needs to be NR but has tasted freedom...
when dealing with wild critters...and sqs are 100% wild, even my 9 year old Rocky is a wild animal....patience is a must...never rush a sq for the benefit of seeing what you want...we will never control a sq....
to find a union that is exceptible for each of you is unpredicable, but in time, very possible...
:poke you must go slow and wait until she shows you...:Love_Icon

teeth extraction verses you trimming every three weeks ...
you need to weigh that yourself...stress is a heavy in the sq world...they do not do well with alot of stress...not only will it cause a fidget'y nature, but stress will break down the immune system too...
my advise...start handling her more often...get her to ride on your shoulder and walk the house inside...
start sq proofing your home if there's a possibility of her becoming NR in your custody...
she deserves it if she will conform...
if you have a screen porch, now you need hardware cloth and you have instant large cage...and only need to build a second safe door attachment to it!:sanp3 :D
If you have domestic pets...this can be a problem...keeping them seperate and her safe...
remember rushing is the last thing you want todo...but captive immediately is best in my opinion...
good luck to you both...:Love_Icon

[tallysqueals]

Thanks for all of the replys! I kept Teeny Tiny inside last night because it was going to be so cold (26 degrees!). Unfortunately, she seemed extremely stressed and spent most of the night clinging to the cage bars and breathing heavily with glazed over eyes. She will be like that and then if I take her out on the porch she comes alive and tries to get out of the cage. I am just at a loss for what to do. I know it is her best intrest to keep her in the cage indoors but I feel like I am going to lose her if I do that and I HATE the thought of her dying in a cage from stress. She hasn't been eating very much which is probably due to a sore mouth that the dentist dug around in looking for tooth fragments. Right now, she is in her cage (baby nest) on the porch sleeping. I am hoping that she is only sleeping from exhaustion of last night, and not slipping away. Thank you so much to everyone who has replied with their opinion. You all have made some good points and I really do appreciate it. I still don't know what I am going to do but I will continue to post, if that is okay...I may need some help or advice at some point.