Hair Loss

[iwonka]

Otherwise healthy male squirrel (about 4 months old) loosing hair over a fairly large area of lower body, around ribs. He eats well enough a healthy diet as recommended by the SB and seems active as usual. Is this loss of fur a cause for worry?

Sorry for quality of pictures.. I took them with my cell phone.

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[astra]

hard to tell in the pics, but is that pink sink that i am seeing?

this might be mange. If not "regular" mange, then, some other mites (is that's pink skin in the pic).
Do you have revolution?... you have it, one drop b/w the shoulders, part the fur so that the drop gets onto the skin. Repeat in 2 weeks.

I have a wild, whose sides - rib/tummy areas on both sides of her body - looked like they were shaved: just pink skin. Not a normal mange pattern, at least not what I am used to see as mange.
But I gave her ivermectin and the fur started to fill in. So, I guess, it was mange,or some other mites that responded to ivermectin.
But when I saw her, I'd never think it was mange.

Usually, when it gets to the pink skin (not just very thin fur), it is mites.

BUt I'd be interested to know what the experts will say.

[iwonka]

:thankyou

Yes, a pink skin begins to show but it has started with a fur that gradually thin.
Also, is this usual in case of mange that roommate squirrel doesn't get the same?

[astra]

:thankyou

Yes, a pink skin begins to show but it has started with a fur that gradually thin.
Also, is this usual in case of mange that roommate squirrel doesn't get the same?
that's a good question that I've been asking myself (and around) and so far have not found an answer.

The squirrel that I mentioned before - with shaved-looking sides - is "rooming" with the other two squirrels in a tree hole for the winter. Surprisingly, those two are fine (knock on wood).
So, i was wondering, too, should not they get it, too?....

Then, i've often seen neighborhood mangy squirrels, and since mange is considered contagious, i was wondering why other neighborhood squirrels do not get it?...:dono

Maybe, susceptibility to mange mites has to do with more factors?... again, like the strong immune system, maybe, genetic predisposition?... don't know, but would be great to find out.

Maybe, some experienced exotic vet would know.:dono :thinking

And again, maybe your little guy has something different... it's just that i've seen pink skin showing associated with mange mostly.:thinking

If you apply Rev and see improvement, that might confirm mange/similar mites
If not, then, it's def. something else.

EDIT: if there is away to separate them, do that, just in case.
If not, just keep changing blankets every day, if possible.

[Pip]

we applied revolution but saw no improvement, actually he got a bit worse with more hair loss going down to his back legs on both sides.

thought he was maybe a sensitive squirrel or rubbing on the blankets too much as he moved around in his small cage so built a bigger enclosure and moved them in yesterday. today he looks worse again (moving was a bit stressful) with hair loss going up to his front legs now. is this nutritional (does he need to eat more/more homemade blocks, he gets 2 a day) or stress (does he need some stress or booster medicine) or mange that needs another treatment of revolution?

please advise. would really like to see Rocky looking well again. other than this hair loss he is eating well, exploring his surroundings, and playing with Pip as usual.

[Pip]

Further to the previous post: I should mention that Rocky has about a 35% loss of hair over his body now and there is pink skin where the hair once was that looks good in that it is not scaly, blisterd, or scratched; and it should perhaps also be mentioned that when found he was suffering from a concussion and is now somewhat 'different' from other squirrels in that he is very shy. I find he is very sweet though, when I cannot see where he is in his enclosure if I call out to him and he will poke his head out from his pouch or cozy cube almost as if saying I am here and ok.

He nibbles on his blocks leaving alot of crumbes behind so I wonder if maybe he is not getting all the vitamins he needs? I give plenty of fresh veggies and some fruit everyday so hopefully he will continue to do ok in spite of this hair loss.

Please advise as to what we should do for the hair loss :thinking . Thank you.

[iwonka]

I saw Rocky yesterday and I see no improvement after he got the treatment of revolution a month ago .. He lost even more hair. :dono
If this is no mange.. what other thing could be?.

[astra]

I saw Rocky yesterday and I see no improvement after he got the treatment of revolution a month ago .. He lost even more hair. :dono
If this is no mange.. what other thing could be?.
was it just a one time dose of revolution or one weekly dose for three weeks, or one dose every two weeks for 6 weeks? the frequency is very important.

You said he eats home made blocks - is that the Home Made recipe for HHBs that was posted here a while ago, or some other recipe?
If that's a different recipe, could you post what exactly goes into that block?

What else does he eat besides block?

You could try adding some more protein - squirrels' fur seems to be improving visibly after adding some protein.

Also, I just re-read and it says concussion... so, he has some neuro issues then.
If so, I remember reading somewhere (and somewhat observing it in the wild) that, sometimes, some neuros have periodical fur issues. Again, since there is no research on this really, it's hard to tell the cause/effect correlation. Just something to be aware of. Maybe, it's just some kind of individual sensitivity.

[iwonka]

Astra, thank you very much for your reply! :Love_Icon


was it just a one time dose of revolution or one weekly dose for three weeks, or one dose every two weeks for 6 weeks? the frequency is very important.

It was only a one time dose.


You said he eats home made blocks - is that the Home Made recipe for HHBs that was posted here a while ago, or some other recipe?


Rocky eats the "HHBs" Home Made blocks, however we use only 100 grams of protein.. (the recipe ask for 160g for young), otherwise they would not eat them. Besides this, he eats vegetables, boobals (1 or 2 max per day), eggs, nuts (1 per day).
He eats exactly the same as his roommate Pip but Pip's fur is just perfect.


Also, I just re-read and it says concussion... so, he has some neuro issues then.
If so, I remember reading somewhere (and somewhat observing it in the wild) that, sometimes, some neuros have periodical fur issues. Again, since there is no research on this really, it's hard to tell the cause/effect correlation. Just something to be aware of. Maybe, it's just some kind of individual sensitivity.

Yes, Rocky had a traumatic brain injury when we got it :( Now, he seems fairly well coordinated in his movements but he continues to throw his head back at times. Other than that, he eats well, climbing, playing and reacts like a normal squirrel.

[astra]

Hi iwonka,

Yes, one time dose is not enough.
The course of treatment is either one dose every two weeks for 6 weeks (so 3 doses total),
or
three weekly doses (one dose per week for three weeks).
Once I treated someone every two weeks for 6 weeks and it didn't seem very successful (but he wasn't getting worse either).
Then, one very experienced person told me that the dose could be given every week once a week for three weeks, because according to some research (or smth like that), it turned out that Revolution remained active for 7 days, instead of 14 days as was thought before.

So, try treating him again, and maybe, try one dose per week for three weeks. Definitely, observe him after the second week - if it looks like weekly dosing is too frequent for him, then, switch to bi-weekly dosing.
But I doubt it will be too much as Rev. is rather safe.

Just do not use oral ivermectin on him. Again, a very experienced person told me that ivermectin should not be given neuros, esp. neuros with head traumas ( forgot exactly why, I think, it has something to do with blocking their neuro pathways in the brain, or circulation or something like that) - it worsens their neuro symptoms.
I know that from my own experience, too, because I gave oral ivermectin to a neuro squirrel, not knowing that, and I saw drastic worsening of the symptoms within 1/2 hour after that. Fortunately, right after that I spoke to that experienced person who told me about oral ivermectin and neuros.
That squirrel's condition eventually improved as the ivermectin wore off, but it took several weeks and scared the heck out of me.

So, try Revolution treatment again.

If he is eating HHBs - he should be getting his vit. minterals.

If he does not like too much protein, do keep giving him eggs.
Also, try giving him cooked chicken pieces, maybe, incorporate yogurt etc.
But sounds like his diet is in order.

So, again, maybe, try Revolution treatment and monitor him.:thinking

[astra]

hi Iwonka,

someone knowledgeable shared some info with me for you - check your private messages.:) :grouphug

[iwonka]

Update from Rocky.
Nearly two months have passed and it looks like the condition of his hair does not improve. He got two shots of revolution and Julia follow all nutrition advices.
Other than a fur problem, Rocky is doing well.

I've made few pictures last time I visited Julia.. Last pictures shows Rocky's testicules .. It looks like huge for me.. :thinking Is it something we should be worried about?

Thanks again for help and all advises! :grouphug

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[astra]

Love his dirty little nose ;)

He looks a lot like the squirrel I might have mentioned before, who had these "shorn" sides and it was in December, so I am not sure if that was molt.
So, I have her one dose of ivermectin.
I gave her one because when I went there a week after, I could not recognize her as all squirrels seemed to be furry. I gave another dose to the squirrel who, I thought, was she, but not sure...

BUt what I am trying to say is that it might have been a combination of things: maybe, some molt with some mites.
Maybe, that one dose of ivermectin helped to boot the mites or calm them down...
But she did start filling in.
I saw her a few weeks ago again, and I could still see her sides through the fur because they weren't covered all the way (you could still see some skin). But now everyone seems to be fully furred.

So, maybe that's what is going on with Rocky: maybe, it is a combination of some mites, some molt and dietary issues.
Do give him the 3rd application of Revolution.
Do continue giving him the diet with blocks and enough protein
And let's give it some more time. Sometimes, these issues do take a few months to straighten out.

As for his testicles, I think they increase in size and decrease according to hormone fluctuations. It is a mating season right now, so that might be the reason they got enlarged. Once the mating season subsides, they will, probably, decrease in size.
But I would like to have experts confirm that for sure.

[astra]

I looked at the pics again, and do I see some darker fur coming out on his shoulders?

[iwonka]

:thankyou :grouphug

Thank you very much Astra!

:bowdown

[Kristal]

Well, that does look a bit extreme... But my Babe had very weird moults the first two times. He was always the runt and seemed to develop more slowly than the others at every stage. When he moulted he had a bald stripe going down his side like that for quite a long time, but it was not as thick. I think that a general guideline is that if it follows the roughly horizontal "fur line" it is moulting, and if it is roughly symmetrical it is overgrooming. At least that is what I have garnered from the more experienced board members who advised me when I had moulting and overgrooming worries.

Is there any reason that your guy might be feeling anxious? Do they all get a lot of out of cage time, for example? Juvie squirrels have a lot of ya-yas that they need to get out, and they also need to explore to develop their motor skills and coordination and build up their little brains during this critical phase.

[Kristal]

Looking again, my guess would be an awkward moult with some "barbering" thrown in (according to one of the members who advised me that is another word for overgrooming).

Rifa is an adult now (mine are 1.5 years old) and seemed to almost go into heat this last autumn. She got nippy and cranky with me and started overeating and barbering. She had a few, little scabs like I see on your guys elbows there. I rubbed a bit of vitamin e into the scabs, and they healed quickly, but she continued with the barbering for another week or two - just that her skin was smooth and healthier after that.

So I guess try putting some vitamin e oil on from a gel cap. It's quite soothing for rashes or any kind of inflammation. That stopped her from picking at her itchy scabs, or so I figure, judging by the results. And try to figure out what is the cause of the antsiness and anxiety. At that age it is probably exercise and needing more of it. Squirrels are born klutzes and only *learn* to be the graceful acrobats that we marvel at. Their eyes are oddly spaced, and yet stereoscopic vision is crucial to almost everything that they need to do to survive. So they need the trial and error of leaping, climbing, chasing and falling. They actually have to *learn* to be squirrels, and this might be why they reach reproductive maturity fairly late compared to other rodents. I finally let my guys have 24/7 free run of a room at your guys' age because it was becoming very obvious that even 2-3 hours of apartment time was simply not enough for them, not even close.

Another thing could be bullying, but do they tend to be fairly agreeable at that age. It depends on the squirrel as some are just bossier than others.

So basically try and look at their lives through their eyes, insofar as possible, and give them a bit more of what they need if anything at all is lacking. Overgrooming is like nail biting in humans. They do it when they are feeling stressed and can't resolve that stress, physiological causes having been excluded, of course. Physiological causes could include allergies, too. If you have changed detergent or whatever, your guy might be having an itchy reaction from his bedding, for example. :dono

PS: your guys colouring is a bit like my Rifa's :) Very Handsome! ;)

[astra]

Is there any reason that your guy might be feeling anxious? Do they all get a lot of out of cage time, for example? Juvie squirrels have a lot of ya-yas that they need to get out, and they also need to explore to develop their motor skills and coordination and build up their little brains during this critical phase.
that's a good point - something to consider.

[Pip]

Thank you for all your input! If it were overgrooming and/or molting wouldn't the fur have grown back by now? He has been having fur problems since last October and it had been getting progressively worse. Recently it is stable, as shown in the photos. How can it be overgrooming so high up and behind his neck and shoulders?
That he could be anxious is possible as being in an cage or even in a room is not the same as being outside with nature. It seems to me that they generally get along quite well: they play together, groom and even feed each other, and are very athletic as they explore their surroundings.

[astra]

Thank you for all your input! If it were overgrooming and/or molting wouldn't the fur have grown back by now? He has been having fur problems since last October and it had been getting progressively worse. Recently it is stable, as shown in the photos. How can it be overgrooming so high up and behind his neck and shoulders?
That he could be anxious is possible as being in an cage or even in a room is not the same as being outside with nature. It seems to me that they generally get along quite well: they play together, groom and even feed each other, and are very athletic as they explore their surroundings.
Hi Pip,

overgrooming is only a possibility, something to consider...
Although, being outside is not the same as being inside, generally, that does not cause the kind of anxiety to lead to this kind of fur loss... if they get too "anxious" about being inside, it first appears in their behavior: antsy, constantly aggressive, pacing, chewing bars etc etc.
Since he is playful and happy, sounds like, I think, the "anxiety" cause does not really apply.

also, he, himself, would probably not be able to groom himself that high up on his shoulders, although, squirrels can be pretty acrobatic... still, kind of hard

Also, even though he's been losing fur since October, not all possible issues has been addressed right away.
E.g, the revolution treatment was not full (only one application, if I remember it right), the diet (protein content) was not addressed right away.
These changes were made only during the past several weeks.
The fact that his condition did not change and is kind of stable might mean that those changes are working.
But it will take time for the fur to grow back.

At this point there is not much else we can do: finish the Rev treatment, and make sure he gets enough protein, along with other nutrients of rodent block and stuff. Maybe, his current stable condition will eventually start improving.
stability is already a good sign.

The only other thing that could be done is to have a vet run skin tests.
But, I understand, that is not possible.

So, for now keep monitoring his diet. Finish the Rev. treatment of three applications, take a 2-3 week break and repeat again, if nothing changes (that's how it is usually done; take a break and repeat the course of treatment).

And hopefully, more experienced people can pitch in their ideas.

PS no detergents or other stuff that could have possibly caused this skin irritation?...
Maybe, observe him and others really, really closely for several days: how they groom, what they do etc etc etc. Maybe, you will see some clues if this is behavioral.

[jo_schmoe]

Thank you for all your input! If it were overgrooming and/or molting wouldn't the fur have grown back by now? He has been having fur problems since last October and it had been getting progressively worse. Recently it is stable, as shown in the photos. How can it be overgrooming so high up and behind his neck and shoulders?
That he could be anxious is possible as being in an cage or even in a room is not the same as being outside with nature. It seems to me that they generally get along quite well: they play together, groom and even feed each other, and are very athletic as they explore their surroundings.
Pip....I know a lady with a squirrel that every time that poor guy gets anxious...or stressed in any way...he drops his fur. It has taken up to a year for it to grow back in at times.
As for the testicles....Im not familiar with greys.....but do those look quite red and swollen to anyone else? Ive just never seen them so red before.

[Kristal]

I was just looking at my Squeakys balls, and they are mostly a medium brown colour under all that fur. No, I don't think that looks right. I wonder if he is pulling all the fur off of them :eek:

Well, re the juvie antsiness: I let them live out of the cage because they got to a point where they almost never wanted to go back in. When they were little they were so happy to return and hopped onto me for transportation to the cage and then hopped off very agreeably. They loved the anticipation of going in for dinner and then tucking in for a nap. When they got to be older juvies they would sometimes fight their own hunger to stay outside longer. And then they would get cranky for that. Whenever they heard me from inside the cage they were all leaping onto the cage wall, waiting with bated breath and watching me for the slightest sign, would I be letting them out now... pleasepleaseplease? I felt bad about making their lives revolve around me quite so much and gave them what they wanted. They were a lot happier for it. So it was not cage pacing or anything so dramatic as that for me.

Actually they do live in the cage. They sleep and eat and perch in there. They do like it. But that is only now that they can leave when they want. Before that they were trying to crash just about anywhere *but* the cage a lot of the time :p

Sorry if it seems like I am harping on the issue. It is just that having seen how much energy they have at that age and, most importantly, how much they have to learn during this stage, I think that if this healthy urge is at all thwarted it will tend to cause nervous responses.

So... how much out of cage time are they getting?

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have been PMed to this thread, will have to read it later today, after I catch up with my feedings and chores.
I was asked about the fur loss and his testicles, his testicles look fine, that is normal 100% I know this for sure.:thumbsup
His hair loss is NOT MOLT from what I can see in the pics only.


his ears don't look dirty inside, but could be stress/mange!!??
however, this def looks like it may be a diet issue too.
Could be an allergy also..

hoping others are helping, will try to read asap.

[iwonka]

Hi Pip,

PS no detergents or other stuff that could have possibly caused this skin irritation?...



As for the testicles....Im not familiar with greys.....but do those look quite red and swollen to anyone else? Ive just never seen them so red before.


I forgot about this! :thumbsup
Julia.. what do you use to wash their hammocks?

[jo_schmoe]

I was asked about the fur loss and his testicles, his testicles look fine, that is normal 100% I know this for sure.:thumbsup

Thanks Jackie. Chalk this up to another difference between species. My foxer has testicles that big....but they are dark brown...almost black. And the Reds...well...they are so tiny you can barely see them. :thumbsup
Good to know his baby making parts are good!! :peace

[Pip]

The detergent I use is always the same very gentle (for sensitive skin) laundry detergent and I double, triple rinse everything. I made new hammocks and a big pouch for them which I did not prewash before putting in their cage. Could something on this new fabric be an issue? Should I prewash?
If Rocky's testicles are normal than should one be concerned for Pip as his no where near look like Rocky's? Maybe all squirrells are not alike but are still healthy in this matter?
As for giving another treatment of Revolution, does the non fur loosing Pip need another dose too? We have been giving them both Revolution as a precaution.
Thank you for your help.

[iwonka]

If Rocky's testicles are normal than should one be concerned for Pip as his no where near look like Rocky's? Maybe all squirrells are not alike but are still healthy in this matter?


The same for humans: all man aren't the same? :jump

[iwonka]

So... how much out of cage time are they getting?



Unfortunately none. Julia doesn't have possibility to get squirrels going out.

[Nancy in New York]

And the Reds...well...they are so tiny you can barely see them. :thumbsup
:peace

Sorry to thread jack....But I just know that Jeffrey is up in heaven laughing his "butt" off at this comment, :rotfl and he wants you all to know what a "real" red looks like.:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/IMG_9257.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/IMG_4153.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/TSB%20photos/IMG_4148.jpg

[Anne]

Laundry detergent is very important-use a gentle non-scented liquid or powder. Also, you must wash all fleece before you introduce it to your squirrels. Fabrics are treated with different chemicals (often Formaldehyde) and must be washed before use.
I think you may have multiple problems going at once. Keep all bedding super clean, some neuro squirrels do over groom , diet is very important-however from reading his diet it appears good. If no others in the cage are exhibiting the same hair loss-it is not mange.

[jo_schmoe]

I'll be sure and let the boys know how you feel Nan.....:thumbsup

Nan...not sure if you are aware of this...but a red squirrels testicles should only be that visible during mating season....after that....they should go back up...and barely be seen. Did Jeffreys always look like this?? That concerns me.

[Nancy in New York]

I'll be sure and let the boys know how you feel Nan.....:thumbsup

Nan...not sure if you are aware of this...but a red squirrels testicles should only be that visible during mating season....after that....they should go back up...and barely be seen. Did Jeffreys always look like this?? That concerns me.

You could always see Jeffrey's but nothing like these pictures, this was in March or April I believe....:thumbsup
Jeffrey was seen many times by his vet, she treats wildlife for one of the big non profit wildlife organizations up here, she never saw a problem...BUT I think that this is great informaiton jo_schmoe as the same things happen with the greys, and strange as this sounds....I just took pictures of Fluffer's the other day so a friend could compare her male squirrel to him/his...:rotfl

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thanks Jackie. Chalk this up to another difference between species. My foxer has testicles that big....but they are dark brown...almost black. And the Reds...well...they are so tiny you can barely see them. :thumbsup
Good to know his baby making parts are good!! :peacethe first three years I had rocky, I would freak out when he would lose his fursticles and then they would drop and be hairless...
the vet laughed three years in a row and said I had called about the same thing in prior years...
in November they draw up inside of abdoman and in January they get furless...
right now I have at least three females in season...I am getting bitten by all the boys here, someone daily..ouch, Garth got me good yesterday:nono .
Even the immature boys are hunching up like they may bite...

You are getting great advise from some of the world's best!:thumbsup


:Love_Icon Jeffery

[jo_schmoe]

Now back to the hair loss issue.....
Could you check out his feet?? See if you see any patchy places. Im just thinking this is a fungal issue....way too familiar. If he is not in rut...this could also explain his testicles being enlarged.

[Pip]

Feet look normal as compared to other squirrel! I do not see any patches though I am not sure what you mean by patchy places?

[jo_schmoe]

Feet look normal as compared to other squirrel! I do not see any patches though I am not sure what you mean by patchy places?
Sometimes with fungal infections you will see yellow patches of dry skin....its usually in the more advanced stage that you see this. I just keep looking at his pics....and thinking its fungal....that would explain why the Revolution didn't work either.

[Pip]

I see no dry skin with yellow patches on his feet. I will keep an eye out for this. From where would he be getting such a fungal infection and what is there to do so it doesn't get worse if there is such an infection.

[jo_schmoe]

I see no dry skin with yellow patches on his feet. I will keep an eye out for this. From where would he be getting such a fungal infection and what is there to do so it doesn't get worse if there is such an infection.
Your best bet to have that confirmed is to have a vet do a scraping....but Im not sure if thats possible in your situation.

[Kristal]

I guess you mean that the testicles look normal aside from being bald?:dono I was just going through all my old photos to confirm the fact that I have never seen them hairless. Maybe they sport hairless balls for thermoregulation in the heat of Florida, but up here they are always quite furry.

My three boys all have/have had light pink and tan and brown coloured skin on their testicles, too. But maybe that burgundy red is a normal genetic variation? I am sure that it must be if you are saying so, JiT, since you have seen so many more boys than I have. But it does look rather vivid to me, especially in contrast to the rest of his skin...

[iwonka]

Your best bet to have that confirmed is to have a vet do a scraping....but Im not sure if thats possible in your situation.


We will have to do this thus.
Julia.. let me organize something.
:grouphug

[Kristal]

Unfortunately none. Julia doesn't have possibility to get squirrels going out.

And well, I kind of hate to say it, but 3 being in a small cage 24/7 at 16 weeks of age is very, very stressful for them. It might hurt their long term mental development, too, since they need the trial and error and mental stimulation of free movement to build their coordination, control, strength and grace. They are probably like cats - only born with the desire to (learn to) hunt, not the ability. If a cat does not learn to hunt during the critical phase in early juvie-hood, she never will. Those birds will keep escaping her throughout adulthood.

I finally got to talk with the woman who runs urban animal advocates here. She said that the reason she never overwinters is that they don't learn muscle coordination in a cage and so they usually die shortly after being released. If overwintered here they have to be in human care during what is probably their most important learning period. Personally, I think they could probably adapt later with a very soft release, but that is just my guess (UAA does a semi hard release). But still, those are serious words coming from an experienced person. I think she has been doing this for some years.

They need at *least* two hours of out of cage time per day at this age. Please try to arrange it - this is for their sake. My guys got the only enclosed room in my apartment, for example. It was a compromise for me, but a genuine need for them.

Overgrooming often has to do with stress. I personally suggest that you try removing some of the stress before loading up on medicines.

[jo_schmoe]

Here's what Im talking about when I say it looks like a fungus to me.
This squirrel had a confirmed fungal infection. Treatment varies and can take a long time to clear up. Also...in some cases the squirrel never regrows the fur...but some do.
If he does have a fungus...I would try and stick with a topical treatment....as the systemics can be hard on the liver.
Fungus isn't really caused by much other than a suppressed immune system. All squirrels have fungus...as do you and I and everyone else...but our immune systems keep it in check.

[astra]

And well, I kind of hate to say it, but 3 being in a small cage 24/7 at 16 weeks of age is very, very stressful for them. It might hurt their long term mental development, too, since they need the trial and error and mental stimulation of free movement to build their coordination, control, strength and grace. They are probably like cats - only born with the desire to (learn to) hunt, not the ability. If a cat does not learn to hunt during the critical phase in early juvie-hood, she never will. Those birds will keep escaping her throughout adulthood.

I finally got to talk with the woman who runs urban animal advocates here. She said that the reason she never overwinters is that they don't learn muscle coordination in a cage and so they usually die shortly after being released. If overwintered here they have to be in human care during what is probably their most important learning period. Personally, I think they could probably adapt later with a very soft release, but that is just my guess (UAA does a semi hard release). But still, those are serious words coming from an experienced person. I think she has been doing this for some years.

They need at *least* two hours of out of cage time per day at this age. Please try to arrange it - this is for their sake. My guys got the only enclosed room in my apartment, for example. It was a compromise for me, but a genuine need for them.

Overgrooming often has to do with stress. I personally suggest that you try removing some of the stress before loading up on medicines.
have to agree with Kristal about the importance of the out of cage time.
If he never gets out of cage time, then yes, this could be stress, anxiety and all that.

And yes, he needs out of cage time for release.
it's one thing when some rehabbers, who do not have out of cage room, rehab them for about 4 months and then release, but to be in a cage for almost a year (b/c of overwintering) can be very tough on a squirrel.

It is not like they have to have the run of the house all day long.
Even if it is just couple of hours per day that could make a huge difference.
Say, if she squirrel-proofs one room and spends a couple of hours with them in that room.
They need to jump so that they can develop coordination skills (learn how to calculate their jumps, leaps and not miss them) and muscle strength.
They also need to release their squirrelly energy (=their squirrelly "craziness" ;) and curiosity). To be confined to a cage all the time is not good physically and mentally.
Maybe, there is a way to work something out at least for a couple of hours per day.

[Pip]

Rocky MAY be showing slight signs of some fur growing back, though still not much.
Wondering if and thinking of giving him a third treatment for mange. While the first 2 treatments were done using Revolution we were told (by a vet who does not have experience with squirrels) that ivermectine would probably be more effective. Could you please advise us if it would be alright to do a third treatment on Rocky (he has neuro problems) for mange using ivermectine gel. There is also a liquid form of ivermectine which is used on baby squirrels, does anyone know if it would be less dangerous for a neuro but at the same time as effective. Can this liquid ivermectine be added to food.
Rocky too especially thanks you for all your help :Love_Icon

[astra]

Rocky MAY be showing slight signs of some fur growing back, though still not much.
Wondering if and thinking of giving him a third treatment for mange. While the first 2 treatments were done using Revolution we were told (by a vet who does not have experience with squirrels) that ivermectine would probably be more effective. Could you please advise us if it would be alright to do a third treatment on Rocky (he has neuro problems) for mange using ivermectine gel. There is also a liquid form of ivermectine which is used on baby squirrels, does anyone know if it would be less dangerous for a neuro but at the same time as effective. Can this liquid ivermectine be added to food.
Rocky too especially thanks you for all your help :Love_Icon
I was told by an experienced rehabber who has a VERY experienced vet, that ivermectin SHOULD NOT be given to neuro squirrels. It worsens the neuro conditions (the explanation is a bit complicated and I don't remember it in exact terms).
Personally, I have seen that in action - before I was told that, I had given ivermectin to a neuro squirrel and that squirrel's symptoms began to deteriorate literally in front of my very eyes.
FORTUNATELY, much later though, as ivermectin left the squirrel's system, the squirrel was ok (probably, because I prayed so intensely)
BUT the outcome could have been dismal.

So, I WOULD NOT give ivermectin to a neuro squirrel, based on my initial uninformed action AND what I was told afterwards.

Also, I am thinking, if he is neuro, would he not be unreleasable?...
If there is a good chance that he might be unreleasable, it becomes even more important for him to get out of cage time regularly.

Also, if he is neuro, being caged up all the time might result in a greater and more severe anxiety and issues like that, which could be reflected in these fur problems (maybe, "normal" squirrels can handle it a bit better than neuros).

Has his diet been corrected?
For dietary changes to appear he needs time.
Since he is neuro, all these changes might be going differently in him.
He is already compromised being neuro, so we don't know for sure how that affects his overall well being.
He definitely needs out of cage time regularly.

I would give him another dose of revolution, keep his diet healthful, find a way to give him out of cage time and wait some more.
In any case, I WOULD NOT GIVE him ivermectin.

[Kristal]

Rocky MAY be showing slight signs of some fur growing back, though still not much.
Wondering if and thinking of giving him a third treatment for mange. While the first 2 treatments were done using Revolution we were told (by a vet who does not have experience with squirrels) that ivermectine would probably be more effective. Could you please advise us if it would be alright to do a third treatment on Rocky (he has neuro problems) for mange using ivermectine gel. There is also a liquid form of ivermectine which is used on baby squirrels, does anyone know if it would be less dangerous for a neuro but at the same time as effective. Can this liquid ivermectine be added to food.
Rocky too especially thanks you for all your help :Love_Icon

Well, what makes you think it could be mange in the first place? It does not look like mange. How do you think your guys would have been exposed to mange? Please keep in mind that these are, after all, poisons. Of course meds are necessary and wonderful and helpful in cases of illness, but these meds are not tested on squirrels. And since they are poisons, they do put some stress on their systems even though this seems to be well tolerated.

With them being confined to a cage in the bathroom all the time, they are bound to be showing some signs of physical and emotional stress. It's kind of a surprise that they are not fighting and other stuff. They are not like domestic animals which are bred to be adapted to our needs. They are bred by nature to need and want the things that are adaptive for them.

Please try removing the obvious source of stress before loading them up on more heavy medications that will stress their bodies more?

I got your mail asking how you could incorporate some out of cage time into their lives. It's really cool that you care about your sweeties enough to want to do what's right for them :thumbsup

I do have a few pointers for you, but I am going to put them in this thread because other people might have more to add that could help you out. I am just thinking that more heads are better than one when it comes to you getting the best advice.

So, light is your friend. Squirrels are diurnal and if you let them out later in the day, say two hours before sunset then they will be more manageable. When it gets dark they will naturally want to bed down. If you have a dimmer on your light switch, you can enhance this effect (iirc, that tip came to me from Island Rehabber) When they tire out and it is getting dark, they may go to their cage on their own. If not, it should be easier for you to get them there.

Crittermom suggested the "bribe pecan" trick. Try stashing a couple of their favourite shelled nuts in their cage when they are out so that when they go back in they will find it. Hide it in a different place each time. Soon they will be diving in to get their treat. This did not work for me since I have four squees, but it should usually work for two. You want them both to go in at once and when they are looking for their "bribe pecan" (or almond or whatever is their favourite), you close the door.

What I did was a combo of the sundown trick and the dinner trick. They got their morning dinner of block and boring veggies. But their night time dinner became reserved for the things they love like fruit, coconut and avocado. Especially avocado was the deal sealer for me because all my guys love it. So while they were out and just before it was time to go to bed I put in their evening dinner. I wiped my fingers with fresh avocado, and that became like a signal for them. I would hold out my arm, offering to let them hop on for transportation, and they would sniff the avocado on my fingers and happily hop on. I waited until I had all four on me or in the room before I opened their cage and let them all in at once to have their evening dinner. Then I closed the door

Now that they are grown up they just go back to their room on their own. But when they are growing and their brains are developing they just need so much stimulation that they are a bit reticent. They need a bit of extra encouragement to go to their house.

I bet other people have good advice for you, too (why I wanted to keep it in the thread). And if I think of more pointers, I will post those.

Would you mind telling us more about your squirrels? I gather that there are two and that one is a more recent addition. Is that right? Do you have a thread where you talk about them more? How did you figure out that Rocky is neuro? In the mail you said that he used to get more out of cage time. What changed?

Also, I think you were concerned about them falling (in your mail) Please don't be! It's just physics that small beings can fall from great heights with relatively little risk of injury. It has to do with pressure per area and with the fact that volume goes up exponentially in relation to surface area. A small being like a squirrel could fall many storeys from a building and still be fine. Your bathroom tiles and floors are no danger to them! I promise! ;):Love_Icon

For out of cage diversion, I would personally suggest that you hang some sheets and ropes. I happen to have some printed cotton wall hangings and thick curtains plus some hanging wicker baskets with jute ropes connecting them for plants to go in, and my guys make great use of them. They are actually a good tree surrogate for learning to climb because my guys have occasionally gone on outdoor forays and they are not total oafs. Despite the considerable handicap of growing up in a human home they can actually get around really well and surprisingly gracefully. Even so, they are going to need a bit of tree practise to be as good as the wilds. So they need something to climb. I found that hanging sheets and ropes were useful things for them to learn on in my case.

I hope it is ok to respond to your mail here. I will send you a mail, too, but I wanted to get you at least some helpful info and I did not want to leave it longer than I already have because I know that this is important stuff for you. You obviously love your guys :) :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

PS: I was intimidated by all the responsibility and weirdness of it, too. But I respected the opinions of the much more experience board members who told me that it is absolutely essential to give them what they minimally need. The cage that you are planning for them is about as big as mine, and that is only big enough for a sometimes cage. They need at least two hours per day on top of that to move around. This is coming from all the people who advised me about this more than a year ago, now, not just from me.

Sorry for the overly long and possibly rambling post, but I wanted to get back to you sooner rather than later. I hope this helps :)

[iwonka]

I've seen Rocky yestarday for the 3'rd revolution apply and I have good news ! ... his fur is growing back! :alright.gif

:jump


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[squirrelfriend]

I am so happy to see these pictures of him. He looks like such a sweety. I am glad to see that his skin and hair look so great. Great job!

[island rehabber]

Good job, iwonka! He looks so much better!