My 5 year old squirrel is suddenly VERY inactive

[Belle]

I have a flying squirrel that I'm taking care of (indefinitely) for a friend. He had it since birth and it is now 5 years old. I've had it over a year and it is always very very active. It has been about one week that he has not been active at all He stays in his little log and doesn't really move too much. I don't know much about parasites or anything like that but I'm afraid he may have something like that going on. When I cleaned the cage the other day I noticed a little bug in the food, not sure how it got there. It was very small. Didn't see anymore while I was cleaning but now I don't know what to do. He lives with another squirrel and she is fine, moving around- but he is not. Please help me? what can I do? He responds nicely to me, will poke his head out, looks a little sleepy, he will smell my hand and thats about it. He sometimes gets startled but hasn't recently. Please help!

[SammysMom]

:Welcome Belle!
Can you tell us specifically what she eats on a daily basis? Does she eat protein?

[Belle]

Thank you for your answer!He eats mostly nuts and seeds. That's what we were told to feed it.

[SammysMom]

Okay, that probably answers the question about what is wrong. You MUST visit the healthy diet section of TSB.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32218
I am not an expert, but I think you may be dealing with MBD. The treatment is very specific and must be follow to the letter.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32122
Please follow these instructions! :Welcome to TSB. You will get plenty of help and guidance here. Just ask! If possible, please post pics as they can speak volumes.

[Belle]

Okay I will certainly try that right now. I have a calcium supplement I had for a lizzard before. Alls it has is "dicalcium phosphate, bone ash, calcium carbonate, soy flour steamed bone meal, ascorbic cid, vitamin A acectate cholecaliferole, and stabilizers. Can I use it on them? other than that, right now I have (as my supplement) Calcium with magnesium. .Can either of these work for it? Thank you!

[cuteascnb]

:Welcome ...thats a big NO NO with flyers...seeds should only be offered as treats!!! The majority of their diet should be a rodent block...Kay-tee fortified in the aqua (blue bag) OR the best thing is Henry's healthy blockes...my flyers LOVE LOVE LOVE them...This is what I give my fuzz balls on a daily basis...

EVERYDAY...
dannon vanilla yogurt (spoon full) with oat meal on top (calcium supplement sprinkled once a week)
Collard greens
Mushrooms (not wild)(the more gills the better)
boiled chicken (broke up in pieces)
wax worms/superworms ...mine perfer supers
Rodent block
FRESH water

NOW these I change daily (2 each day) each day is different
-cranberries
-blueberries
-orange
-grapefruit
-pear
-sweet potato
-green beans
-sweet snap peas
-squash
-apple (once a week ONLY)
-carrotts (no two orange in one day!!!)

Their Diet is VERY important in keeping a happy healthy pet they can live for 15 years in captivity!!! I have learned alot from this site TONS TONS TONS of information!!!

Calcium is very important in their diet, they are prone to metobolic bone disease...it is treatable but takes along time to recover...There are some foods you need to stay away from...ones that are HIGH in phospherous!!! The phospherous basically causes calcium not to be absorbed and in the long run effects their already fragile bones. Google a Calcium:Phospherous ratio chart....They should be getting more Calcium then phospherous every day!

If the total intake of Calcium is greater then the intake of Phosopherous your good to go!!! Has eaten this way his whole life??? Im surprized he is still living?

[cuteascnb]

Okay I will certainly try that right now. I have a calcium supplement I had for a lizzard before. Alls it has is "dicalcium phosphate, bone ash, calcium carbonate, soy flour steamed bone meal, ascorbic cid, vitamin A acectate cholecaliferole, and stabilizers. Can I use it on them? other than that, right now I have (as my supplement) Calcium with magnesium. .Can either of these work for it? Thank you!


DO NOT USE the one with phosphate....use TUMS crushed up...there is a thread on "how to treat MBD..." I'll try to find it! `````Sammysmom already linked it for you!!!!

[UDoWhat]

Please follow these instructions to the letter. I think we need to reduce the dose for a flyer but just start the treatment . I have PM'd Mrs Skul for help here. She is one of the best flyer people here. I have the instruction here.

Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW.
Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

Tums, rolaids, or calcium supplement (any kind)
a syringe or spoon

Crush one pill and add a little water or fruit juice to make a paste. Use the syringe or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone.

After you give the initial dose of calcium, give 100 mg calcium every 4 hours. If symptoms return or do not improve, try dosing more often: every 3 hours. Severe cases may need 50 mg calcium every 2 hours.

Your squirrel's symptoms should improve within a few hours; within 1-3 days your squirrel should be alert, active, and eating, with no seizures or paralysis. You should be giving 500-600 mg calcium per day. Keep track of how many doses you give so you can adjust the dosage if needed. You should work with TSB members to do this.

Important!

Any kind of calcium pill is okay for the initial dose. But you must use PLAIN calcium carbonate (without Vit D) from then on.

Many small doses of calcium throughout the day/night are best to keep blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If symptoms worsen or return, give an emergency dose of 100 mg calcium, then consult with TSB members or a rehabber or veterinarian to adjust the dosing schedule. Relapses are very serious and often fatal.

White feces or a white film on dried urine may mean the dosage can be reduced, as this indicates not all of the calcium is being absorbed. It may also mean you need to give smaller doses more often.

The acute symptoms (weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis) will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones. (See the "Long-Term Treatment for MBD" below.)

More Tips

MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. You should pad the bottom of your squirrel's cage and keep him away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work. Squirrels with hind-end paralysis may benefit from gentle massage of the legs and hips.

Marty

[Belle]

Yes unfortunately this is how he has been fed his entire life. Thank you so much. I feel bad this is how he has been eating, I just followed what he said to me. We will leave now to buy some Tums. Thank you for your help! Hopefully we can get this taken care of quickly. He is not moving around the cage at all. He's extremely inactive. Thank your daily recommendation!! Hopefully this will be what is causing it and help him!

[gs1]

:grouphug you have 2 problems ... both possible mbd but also very possible lack of protein almost to starvation....

all squirrels need protein ... but flyers are closer to insectivores than other squirrels... as soon as possible please give him some cooked chicken breast (boiled) or some kind of worm - you might need to try several to see what they'll eat.... (cause both will have to be treated) .... it might be difficult because you are introducing a new food to them ...

(the healthy diet page is more geared to grey/red squirrels than flyers ... flyers need meat protein every single day ... not as a treat or wildfood as stated on that page.....)

i also want you to have mrs skuls phone number so i will pm you .....

:grouphug

[Belle]

Thanks so much for your help everyone! I'm glad I caught this early-ish. I will follow your diet and care recommendations!!!!

[gs1]

belle ... please email me at silvana no spaces 2065@hotmail.com asap....

you really need to speak to mrs skul.... she's the flyer expert and also awake all night ... she's also dyslexic and by the time she sees this will be hours away....

i really want you to talk to her and you cannot yet receive pm messages... so please email me and i'll wait to forward you her number.....

[UDoWhat]

:grouphug you have 2 problems ... both possible mbd but also very possible lack of protein almost to starvation....

all squirrels need protein ... but flyers are closer to insectivores than other squirrels... as soon as possible please give him some cooked chicken breast (boiled) or some kind of worm - you might need to try several to see what they'll eat.... (cause both will have to be treated) .... it might be difficult because you are introducing a new food to them ...

(the healthy diet page is more geared to grey/red squirrels than flyers ... flyers need meat protein every single day ... not as a treat or wildfood as stated on that page.....)

i also want you to have mrs skuls phone number so i will pm you .....

:grouphug
:thankyou gs1, I don't do flyers all that often but I figured to get started on the calcium treatment is best. Do you think the dose needs to be reduced to 300mg the first week?? I am not sure. I am sure this little one needs cal... now!! The protein is a must too.

Marty

[cuteascnb]

YES...talk to Mrs. Skul!!! She knows all there is to know about Flyers!!! Also Im a little concerned...I know that MBD can happen pretty quickly, but if he was on that type of diet for 5 years wouldn't he have came to this ALOT sooner??? Its boggling my mind, that he could survive 5 years with seeds and nuts! It is gonna be very hard to get him to change his eating habits nad hopefully there is no permanent damage done! :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

PLEASE POST PICS!!!

[gs1]

:thankyou gs1, I don't do flyers all that often but I figured to get started on the calcium treatment is best. Do you think the dose needs to be reduced to 300mg the first week?? I am not sure. I am sure this little one needs cal... now!! The protein is a must too.

Marty


i'm not sure... flyers die from not enough protein .... very quickly and very painfully ... just as they do from mbd.....

mrs skul could talk her through it and treat both at the same time....

she does need to get to the store asap ... but she also needs to get some kind of plain chicken asap....

it's because this is a flyer that i'm so worried if it was a grey i wouldn't be as worried about the lack of protein....

:grouphug

[gs1]

I"m quoting her but i also highlighted some of what she said .... and tried to break up some of the groups to make it easier to read when you're in a hurry ...... :grouphug as i said ... her dyslexia makes it hard for her to write what she wants to say but she's got so much information to give .... and shes so much fun.... you'll love her... :D





:wave123 :fireworks congratulation!!!:goofwe
Welcome to the World of Being OWNED By The Flying Squirrel. :D


If you feed a High Protein diet WaxWorms MealWorms ""Even when they turn in to Millers they love them."" Freeze Dried Chicken or Fresh.
PetsMart carries Prim Bites & PetCo Carries PureBites FDChicken., VitaLife makes Chicken Chips and Chicken Poppers. PetsMart use to carrie them.
The Chicken chips you can find on line. This is a Dog treat. All you wont is Chicken nothing else added. You can try Scrambled, Boiled, Poached egg, Fried is usually to greasy.

You also need to pick up Some CuddelBone for Birds and put 1 in the cage. They make a Calcium Mineral Chew that is the shape of a Ice Cream cone. You can find at both Pet stores. They will be in the Rodent and the Rabbit/ Chinchilla/Ferret sections. " Just ask some one and they will help you find them if you cant." I have 1 hanging inside & outside the big cage, and 1 in every cage I have. I hang them so they don't fall to the bottom and get Peeeeeed on.:D :rotfl {"Just 4to5 inch of dental floss. Hanging By the plat form they feed on. When done it just drops and it hangs."} The Flyers will eat on the Cuddle bone and then the C/M Cone. They switch around. Some times it can be in the Cage for a year or so be for they use them. If they are not lacking Calcium they will not eat them. When needed, they Devour it. :shark


I feed my Flyer HHB and Fresh Vegatables. Protean and a Little FV every Day. Some like the FV by a Syringe and Some like FV Yogurt By a Syringe or in a Bottle Cap. "They like to pick it up and like it like IceCream. Happy, Healthy Little Monsters. :D


Flyers Make their own Vitim D and Eating Mushroom every day Helps.

They like Sugar Snap Peas, Broccoli&the Leafs, ButterNut Squash& Acorn Squash. {"I will wash/dry the seed and feed them on the side.""}Asparagus, Bell Peppers and The Seeds, {"The BP Seeds need to be feed right a way or they turn black. I cut the seeds/skin holding them and feed as group."} Fresh Cranberries/ or frozen, Cherry Tomatoes cut in half. :Love_Icon Mine Love Cucumber&Avocado :Love_Icon like crazy, and I mix up a green salad with Romain, Brock Choy, Ediva & Godiva Lettuce, Any of the Lettuce,Cabbage.
"Ice Burg Lettuce has nothing in it for them. I never feed it." You can buy the Ready Mixed Salad's with all kinds of Romain and Letta's.


Now the Fruits. You do not wont them filling up on the Fruit. So just a little each time. Chunk of Apple or a Pare, the size of a Nickel.
BlueBerries {3or 4} Depending how big. :D RasBerry or Black Berry. :Love_Icon Mine love the ComCouts.:Love_Icon I usually hold the strawberry and let them eaton it. Just not much. Cherry, Fig, Prickly Pare Cactus Fruit." Oh and Sweet Potato not to much. :nono

They Have a large SWEET TOOTH and will steal it right out of your mouth if they can. :rotfl " Darla found a small piece of dark chocolate. Can you imagine a flyer on Speed. :eek: I thought she would die."


Just be careful. I am going to PM My number. If you have question or need help just call me any time day or night."



PS
I can't remember who you got Thor from. :thinking Just follow the Nutrition for Squirrels and add The Protean and Thor will do fine.:thumbsup3

I give Black Oil Sunflower seeds, The Squash Seeds,Pumpkin,Cantaloupe, Watermelon Seeds as a treat.
"Usually 4 or 5. It depends on how the Veg eating has gone that day."
I always give a nut for them to stash or keep. And if/when they open it. It's theirs free treat. :thumbsup5 Please call me some time.

I will give you a little info of what to be looking for if and when he gets sick.
Remember The Flyers will not show hardly any sines of being sick until it it to late.

So watch, and Know Him like the palm of your hand.
If he normally plays all the time. Then starts sleeping and Playing, and sleeping. Loss of wt.2 gm or more.
These are sines to watch for.

Good Luck

[UDoWhat]

Yes, as I remember protein is as important as cal. I would add the chicken and or meal worms ASAP... meaning tonight on that chicken too. That is boiled /cooked chicken... Correct??... not raw.

Marty

[gs1]

Yes, as I remember protein is as important as cal. I would add the chicken and or meal worms ASAP... meaning tonight on that chicken too. That is boiled /cooked chicken... Correct??... not raw.

Marty

not raw... cooked...boiled/baked etc... also see if the diet from mrs skul will help... maybe eggs might be more to his taste right now....at least it's protein....and it might be easier to find than chicken ...but tomorrow asap ... talk to mrs skul and start the meat eaters diet.... :D

[gs1]

got her email...sent her the number... the tums are on the way.....:thumbsup

[Mrs Skul]

Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW.
Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:
Tums, rolaids, or calcium supplement (any kind)
a syringe or spoon
Crush one pill and add a little water or fruit juice to make a paste. Use the syringe or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone.

After you give the initial dose of calcium, give 100 mg calcium every 4 hours. If symptoms return or do not improve, try dosing more often: every 3 hours. Severe cases may need 50 mg calcium every 2 hours.

Your squirrel's symptoms should improve within a few hours; within 1-3 days your squirrel should be alert, active, and eating, with no seizures or paralysis. You should be giving 500-600 mg calcium per day. Keep track of how many doses you give so you can adjust the dosage if needed. You should work with TSB members to do this.

Important!

Any kind of calcium pill is okay for the initial dose. But you must use PLAIN calcium carbonate (without Vit D) from then on.

Many small doses of calcium throughout the day/night are best to keep blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If symptoms worsen or return, give an emergency dose of 100 mg calcium, then consult with TSB members or a rehabber or veterinarian to adjust the dosing schedule. Relapses are very serious and often fatal.

White feces or a white film on dried urine may mean the dosage can be reduced, as this indicates not all of the calcium is being absorbed. It may also mean you need to give smaller doses more often.

The acute symptoms (weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis) will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones. (See the "Long-Term Treatment for MBD" below.)

More Tips

MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. You should pad the bottom of your squirrel's cage and keep him away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work. Squirrels with hind-end paralysis may benefit from gentle massage of the legs and hips.


Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats, including stashes.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found here: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=32046 and on the Henry’s Healthy Pets website (http://www.henryspets.com/pages/Healthy-Diet.html). Your squirrel MUST eat rodent blocks or squirrel blocks every day (either 2 Henry's Healthy Squirrel Blocks per day, or a small handful of commercial rodent block per day). If you choose to feed commercial rodent blocks, which are extremely hard, you should crush them up with peanut butter, yogurt, fruit juice, avocado, baby food, etc., to make them easier to chew and improve the taste.

3. You will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for many weeks. You can use a syringe or spoon, or you can mix the calcium with a small amount of peanut butter, crushed nuts, yogurt, baby food, or any food the squirrel likes. An easy way to dose the calcium is to mix 500 mg of calcium powder with 1 tablespoon of peanut butter or other tasty food and roll it into 5 little balls; each ball will contain 100 mg calcium.

Calcium Dosage:

Continue to give 500-600 mg calcium per day for 1 week. Then try reducing the total daily amount by 50 mg. If the squirrel remains stable for 1 week, reduce the daily amount by another 50 mg. Continue this weekly reduction until the squirrel is only getting around 100 mg of extra calcium per day. Continue this for at least another 2 weeks. If at any time symptoms return, give an emergency 100 mg dose, then go back to a higher dosage for 1-2 weeks.

The treatment for each squirrel may be slightly different and you should work with a rehabber or TSB members to tailor the treatment to your squirrel's needs. Depending on the age of the squirrel, severity of disease, and other factors, your squirrel may need extra calcium for many months, perhaps for life.

Important Information
The MBD treatment is a "standardized" treatment that will get most cases on the road to recovery. But every case is different and the treatment should be customized to each squirrel. Severe cases sometimes need more aggressive treatment. There is a limit to how much calcium the body can absorb at one time, so lower doses of calcium given more often is the key with severe cases.

What is MBD?
Calcium is a very important nutrient. It strengthen the bones, but also plays a vital role in all body functions. Every cell in the body contains water plus small amounts of dissolved minerals such as calcium, sodium, magnesium, and potassium. These minerals allow the cells to transmit small electrical signals. Without this cell-to-cell communication, the organs can't function: your heart can't beat, your nerves can't transmit impulses; in fact, you would die.

When there isn't enough calcium in the diet, the body will dissolve the calcium from the bones and use that instead. This eventually causes the bones to become depleted of calcium. Eventually the bones become so depleted, there isn't enough calcium left to maintain sufficient calcium in the cellular fluids, and the organs can't function properly. This is what causes the symptoms of MBD: loss of appetite, lethargy, muscle pain, paralysis, seizures, and eventually death. Humans don't get this type of severe MBD, partly because our calcium requirement is lower and our bones are much bigger, allowing us to store more calcium.

By giving high doses of calcium orally, you are artificially maintaining your squirrel's blood calcium levels because his bones no longer contain enough calcium to maintain his calcium levels normally.

Once the emergency calcium is given, your squirrel's blood calcium levels should normalize fairly quickly. He should "bounce back" and act normal or almost normal. If you are still seeing symptoms such as seizures, loss of appetite, lethargy, or paralysis, the calcium levels may still be too low. This means the body will try to pull the remaining calcium from the bones, which means the MBD is actually getting worse. So stabilizing blood calcium levels is critical. The next step to actually curing the MBD is rebuilding bone. This is the part that takes a long time.

Stabilizing the blood calcium levels can and must be done quickly. In severe cases, calcium may be needed more often throughout the day and night, as often as every 2 hours.
__________________
Henry's Healthy Pets

[Mrs Skul]

32/40 FoxVally
http://henryspets.com
http://foxvalleynutrition.com/main/prod.asp
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/

[Jackie in Tampa]

Make sure the flyer is warm...
:grouphug
low setting on heating pad or rice buddy...
Mrs skul will help you:Love_Icon
good luck little one

[Mrs Skul]

I cant find where it said how much water to mix with a 751mg Tums! :dono Jackie,GS1, UDoWhat, Cuteascnb.
If you can find out how much or where it is I would Appreciate it. :thankyou
You can make home made hydration fluid from,
1 teaspoon salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
1 quart water
Do not give them this for more than 24 hours. If they will not take the plain water, you can use this recipe WITHOUT the salt.
Belle Call me in 1 Hr and let me know how he is doing! Good Luck Christal
Mix Molasses, and Water. This will look like Fairly dark Ice Tea. You can all so mix some Apple Juice with the water. :thumbsup

[Belle]

Thanks everyone. We spoke to Mrs. Skul and she walked us through some things to do with him. We had to force feed him the tum water. He is a lot more alert and we gave him some molasses like she said. I will post more in a couple of hours! Hopefully he'll be improving with all the things she mentioned! We feel awful about their diet. Unfortunately thats what their owner told us, and we never looked into it and just took his word for it! Hopefully it wont be too late! I think he is still alert enough that he'll make it! Thanks for all your input!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thankyou thank you for finding help.
He may have passed had you not acted.



MrsSkul:Love_Icon :bowdown

[Mrs Skul]

:morning Belle
You and HB are very Dedicated to these 2 Little Flyer. :thumbsup3 Thank You for caring so much! :grouphug
Call me Back Your Number Blocked on my ID. :D Did he take any of the Chicken Baby food?? :dono
Just Keep an eye on Pee and Pooh. Calcium can constipate him. :shakehead (Fluids, Fluids, Fluids!)
Hi Jackie :wave123

[pappy1264]

You have been given great info so far. Sadly, many believe nuts and seeds are the proper diet for flyers (after all, they usually in the wild are seen raiding bird feeders, right?) Some seed does have small amounts of protein, but you must remember, they eat other things in the wild besides the seeds. I strongly suggest the waxworms (I would def. sprinkle some calcium powder on them, as a precaution for now.) I think he will take that more readily than any other form of protein considering the diet he has been on. Mine love plain chicken wings (bone and all) but will not eat just plain chicken if I give it. But they will eat the chicken poppers and the freeze dried chicken. (And on a side note, if you were feeding seeds and saw a bug, it was likely a worm that would turn into a moth, pretty common in birdseed. I have birds, too, and always put my seed in the freezer for that very reason!) I would also suggest you pick up some bird cuttlebone, a marrow bone (minus the marrow, you can get them in pet stores) to keep in the cage. They tend to know when they need more calcium, and they can access this as they need it, as well. In flyers, it is usually lack of protein, unlike with regular (tree) squirrels, where it is lack of calcium. But that is not to say this couldn't be both, as he has been lacking in both departments. Please remember, even if he seems to be acting better, it is not a one time thing, a good diet is for life. If you do give a nut as a treat, I like hazelnuts, in shell, as they help in the wearing down of their teeth, as well as being a treat. They also love hickory nuts in the shell (very hard shell!) Good luck with this little guy and please keep us posted. Also, I would make sure to inform your friend, so if down the road he were to ever get another or speak to anyone else who wants to get one, he knows the proper way to feed a flyer to keep it healthy!