Kitty with an Issue Needs a Home

[Twi_prime]

Hi all and thanks for reading on even after the word 'issue.' I have a couple of friends who are really wonderful and literally are a couple. Soon, they will be three (actually four, including a child from a previous marriage and the one on the way). There's a fifth family member too and that's JD.

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As you can see, he's a beautiful boy. Soon-again-to-be-Dad has had him for years and for a good bit of that time (also a period of years but maybe not his whole life?) JD has had a peeing-in-the-wrong-places problem. I do know some of the fixes for this--as we are dealing with the same thing with a female cat of mine--and I've mentioned those fixes to soon-to-be-Mom. However, I think they're very concerned about sanitation with the new baby coming and feel that finding a new home for JD would be best. I don't want to make them sound like heartless people. Mom-to-be asked me for help/recommendations, I think, because she knows that I care about the critters and that I know a bunch of good people who also care. It kills them to think of him feeling like he's just getting dumped. I believe JD is about ten years old. I'm told he's very sweet.

So, I know I'm asking, 'Hey, y'all! Anyone wanna take on a middle-aged kitty who will mark up your home and furniture and will be getting into his later years before you know it?? Huh? Huh? Do ya?' But, I figure if anyone would be up for it, the animal lovers here would. Likewise, if you have suggestions for me to pass along to these young lovers, I'm happy to do it. I did ask if JD is fixed and Mom-to-be couldn't tell me for sure, but I'll ask Dad-to-be; he should know. We also mentioned the possibility of a health problem, like renal failure, but really, it sounds like it's been going on for a very long time. I'll talk to Dad-2-b a little more about this too. Would a health problem manifesting itself this way go on for years, with the cat still seeming pretty healthy?

Any ideas, guys? Any takers? Huh? Huh? :)

[astra]

sorry about JD
I hope, JD will be taken by a loving person.

As for the fixes... don't know... but, sometimes, in order to find a fix it helps to understand what the cause is.

1. it might be something physiological, that could be fixed with meds.

2. More often, though, especially, if it started almost out of nowhere, the causes might be in the environment, and to get a good picture it would be helpful to know how long the cat was with the "dad-to-be" and it sounds like it's been for quite a few years.
And from what you are saying, JD had never had such problems before.

Then, it looks like "dad" met "mom-to-be" and they got married?... moved in together?... and "mom" brought another child.
So, JD's environment completely changed. His place in his "dad"s priorities and relationships changed. Most likely, he was not getting as much attention and he began to feel that new people took his place in his "dad"s world.
So, JD's world has been uprooted quite a bit.
If that's what happened, in general terms, of course, then, JD's behaviour is completely understandable.
That's his way of coping with it and expressing his discomfort, unhappiness etc.
Similar behavioral problems (e.g., destructiveness, aggression etc) are observed in dogs whose sense of "pack order" has been challenged (when they feel they have to be the leader, instead of being led by their human=lack of healthy training, discipline and leadership from their human) or when their life routine has undergone upheaval.
Did this problem start when "dad" met "mom"?... around that time?...cats, like all animals, can feel the change in their human's feelings, moods etc. So, perhaps, he started feeling that something began to change?...

Or, maybe, "dad" was inconsistent in his routine with JD?... and that was JD's way to demand attention?



Again, I do not know the whole picture.
But that's what it sounds like to me.
If that's what happened, then, there are ways to deal with that. I am not a cat expert, but there are some here, I think, who could give some suggestions.
I think, one of the ways to deal with it is to, perhaps, restore his "position" as much as possible?... but again, cat experts will be more helpful.

If that's physiological, then, he probably needs meds.

It could also be something as simple as lack of proper litter box training in infancy.
If I remember it correctly, unless a kitten is litterbox trained early on, it might be very, very difficult to do that later on.

Male cats also tend to spray to mark their territory.
Was JD neutered?...

Again, I am not a cat expert.
Just throwing some thoughts and whatever else I remember hearing from cat-owning people.

I hope, cat experts will chime in with their experience.


Hope, this will be resolved to JD's benefit

[Twi_prime]

sorry about JD
I hope, JD will be taken by a loving person.

As for the fixes... don't know... but, sometimes, in order to find a fix it helps to understand what the cause is.

1. it might be something physiological, that could be fixed with meds.

2. More often, though, especially, if it started almost out of nowhere, the causes might be in the environment, and to get a good picture it would be helpful to know how long the cat was with the "dad-to-be" and it sounds like it's been for quite a few years.
And from what you are saying, JD had never had such problems before.

Then, it looks like "dad" met "mom-to-be" and they got married?... moved in together?... and "mom" brought another child.
So, JD's environment completely changed. His place in his "dad"s priorities and relationships changed. Most likely, he was not getting as much attention and he began to feel that new people took his place in his "dad"s world.
So, JD's world has been uprooted quite a bit.
If that's what happened, in general terms, of course, then, JD's behaviour is completely understandable.
That's his way of coping with it and expressing his discomfort, unhappiness etc.
Similar behavioral problems (e.g., destructiveness, aggression etc) are observed in dogs whose sense of "pack order" has been challenged (when they feel they have to be the leader, instead of being led by their human=lack of healthy training, discipline and leadership from their human) or when their life routine has undergone upheaval.
Did this problem start when "dad" met "mom"?... around that time?...cats, like all animals, can feel the change in their human's feelings, moods etc. So, perhaps, he started feeling that something began to change?...

Or, maybe, "dad" was inconsistent in his routine with JD?... and that was JD's way to demand attention?



Again, I do not know the whole picture.
But that's what it sounds like to me.
If that's what happened, then, there are ways to deal with that. I am not a cat expert, but there are some here, I think, who could give some suggestions.
I think, one of the ways to deal with it is to, perhaps, restore his "position" as much as possible?... but again, cat experts will be more helpful.

If that's physiological, then, he probably needs meds.

It could also be something as simple as lack of proper litter box training in infancy.
If I remember it correctly, unless a kitten is litterbox trained early on, it might be very, very difficult to do that later on.

Male cats also tend to spray to mark their territory.
Was JD neutered?...

Again, I am not a cat expert.
Just throwing some thoughts and whatever else I remember hearing from cat-owning people.

I hope, cat experts will chime in with their experience.


Hope, this will be resolved to JD's benefit

Thanks for your thoughts Astra. I'm definitely down with the idea that kitties will get their sense of security jarred and begin to have this habit. There's a suspicion that our 2nd dog (a gigantic and boisterous puppy) was the catalyst for my cat Puffy to start doing her thing all over the carpeted areas and furniture. Although there were other suspicions too (maybe I'll start another thread on her if we find that we're not really making the progress we think with her). I don't know that your hypothetical timeline is very far off, although a few things happen in a somewhat different order. Not important though. There have definitely been changes in their lives that could have brought this on. I'm gonna quiz them more. Thanks again. I'll get back soon. :)

[Margie]

Kitties definitely need a place for their potty where they feel safe from attack. They are in a vulnerable position while "doing their business". They also like a clean bathroom. If the litter box isn't kept constantly cleaned, they will find an alternate area. Going outside the box, guarantees that you are going to keep that area clean. Some people think that just dumping the whole box of dirty litter every week or so will suffice. Not so, it must be scooped a couple of times a day and the box dumped and washed on a regular basis. You should have more than one litter box if you have more than one cat. If should be in a quiet, low traffic area, where the cat can't be ambushed. The area where they have had an accident has to be cleaned thoroughly and all smell removed or they will go back to it out of habit. Sometimes it requires closing off that area to the cat until they start going in their litter box, or putting the litter box in the cat's preferred area and then gradually moving it to back to your preferred spot. Some cats have a preference for a specific type of litter. Do not use the ones that are citrus or orange scented. That is a bad marketing idea, since citrus/orange has been used for years as a cat repellant. There are lots of reasons a cat stops using the litter box, you rule out a health problem first, and go from there. The cat is trying to get a message to you, it is just coded and we have to break the code.

[astra]

Kitties definitely need a place for their potty where they feel safe from attack. They are in a vulnerable position while "doing their business". They also like a clean bathroom. If the litter box isn't kept constantly cleaned, they will find an alternate area. Going outside the box, guarantees that you are going to keep that area clean. Some people think that just dumping the whole box of dirty litter every week or so will suffice. Not so, it must be scooped a couple of times a day and the box dumped and washed on a regular basis. You should have more than one litter box if you have more than one cat. If should be in a quiet, low traffic area, where the cat can't be ambushed. The area where they have had an accident has to be cleaned thoroughly and all smell removed or they will go back to it out of habit. Sometimes it requires closing off that area to the cat until they start going in their litter box, or putting the litter box in the cat's preferred area and then gradually moving it to back to your preferred spot. Some cats have a preference for a specific type of litter. Do not use the ones that are citrus or orange scented. That is a bad marketing idea, since citrus/orange has been used for years as a cat repellant. There are lots of reasons a cat stops using the litter box, you rule out a health problem first, and go from there. The cat is trying to get a message to you, it is just coded and we have to break the code.:goodpost

[djarenspace9]

I have always considered myself a cat expert,
since I at one time had up to 9 cats and dealt with just about
any situation you can expect from such a variety (all rescues)...

...Yet there is always something we humans fail to understand about
the feline thought process.

I once caught a few episodes of this show on Animal Planet
and found that it was very insightful and learned a
few things I did not know about cats after 19 years of experience.
(It's the feline version of the Dog Whisperer :D)

Here's a link to the page for the show.
http://animal.discovery.com/search/results.html?focus=video&query=My+Cat+From+Hell
It seems to have a few clips rather than the whole episodes,
but I recall one of the shows was about similar issues you describe.
Maybe you can find a few tips in those that will be helpful.

You could also try to contact the behaviorist and ask for advice.
Maybe I will see your friends cat on TV one day :dono

[Margie]

I have you beat. I was up to 10 Feline Americans, all indoors for quite a while. I am down to 8 now, since losing one to lymphoma at age 15 in Oct. While working as a Licensed Vet Tech for many years, the number one complaint about cats and the main cause they would be brought in for euthanasia, even though healthy, was litter box mistakes. I did a lot of public education on that subject.

[djarenspace9]

I have you beat.
You can win this one, no problem :D
Always happy to point out anyone who has MORE cats than me,
helps me look LESS like a crazy CAT LADY :peace

:jump :jump :jump

[chicklett43]

Good posting everyone! I've had the same problems with some of my kitties. It was crazy for a while with about 15 cats and kittens going potty inside. We had a couple feral mom kitties come in and had babies and our inside kitties (at the time only 3) had issues and passed those issues on to the kittens. We had to have more litter boxes and after we gave the kittens new homes the potty issues stopped with the other cats. I've also heard that if you move the litter box from a spot where they've had it for a while they will potty in other places until they have it back in their spot. It sounds like, though, the issues with JD are probably from having new people and not having his dad's full attention now. Also he probably already knows there is going to be a new baby in his territory and wants to establish his boundaries before the baby comes. Hope everything goes well with helping JD find his new family and working out his issue.

[Margie]

There are far worse thing you can be called that "a crazy cat (or squirrel) lady"! I wear the title with honor.

[Twi_prime]

Thanks for all the great posts so far, everybody! I haven't heard back from JDD (JD's dad) yet, but I'm sure to talk to him this weekend. I wanna get a little more of JD's history. I know they'd like to keep their guy if they could get this problem licked. More ideas/recommendations always welcome. :)

[sdreamcatcher]

IF it is a medical issue that could explain the sudden avoidance of the litter box. Cats can very easily start to associate pain while going with the box. Rule out medical issues -- neutered male kitties do get stones sometimes... Bladder infection could be another possibility. If JD hasn't had a thorough medical check up now would be the time.

Litter box changes of any sort; even switching to another type of litter, moving the box, etc. If he is declawed (HOPING not here!!), certain litters can hurt their paws.

Whatever you do, make sure they understand NOT to surrender JD to a shelter. He will NOT have a chance with his issues, and even if they don't give the reason, fewer then 20% of cats make it out of shelters alive. Rescues with foster families are the best option.

Also, if there have been changes, and that does sound like at least some of the issue here, rescue remedy will help. Setting him up in his own cat friendly room with his box could help him feel more secure. He may need more attention/play time as well.

Rule out medical reasons first though. Older cats can have kidney issues, even hyperthyroidism.

I will be checking back for ideas myself; I have two girls with recent litterbox issues. They are driving me crazy, but being rescues already (and both being dumped at least once), I will not give them up.

[SammysMom]

Boy oh boy...I hesitate to jinx myself by saying this, but I seem to have solved this problem after MANY years of it from my neutered male cat.
I switched to "Cat Attract" litter and I use a plug-in Feliway product that is supposed to help with behavior issues. It has all but eliminated the problem which for years was a daily issue. He even got the dining room table and peed!!!
Please tell your friend to try these two things together. They seriously saved my cat's life!

[sdreamcatcher]

Boy oh boy...I hesitate to jinx myself by saying this, but I seem to have solved this problem after MANY years of it from my neutered male cat.
I switched to "Cat Attract" litter and I use a plug-in Feliway product that is supposed to help with behavior issues. It has all but eliminated the problem which for years was a daily issue. He even got the dining room table and peed!!!
Please tell your friend to try these two things together. They seriously saved my cat's life!

:thumbsup :goodpost

[Twi_prime]

Hi all. Thanks for more good posts. I've passed a link to this thread on to the happy couple, as well as the text of some specific posts. I've also found out that JD *is* neutered. A question our vet had about my cat's peeing problems was, 'is she very thirsty?' so I asked that. JD's dad doesn't think so. He says they did feel that the original start of the problem had to do with a cat who then lived with JD, who was pretty dominant. I think that cat is no longer in the home. They did also try different litter. Possibly, different litters, but I know (from what our vet says) that changing a *bunch* of things, or changing things over and over again, could have just made the cat more uncertain. Dad sounds willing to get JD to the vet soon. I mentioned that maybe having kidney function checked would be a good idea, and one of the posts I passed along was Sdreamcatcher's about the possibility of stones or infection. Dad also volunteers that JD may be feeling a lack of attention, since they're a busy, modern family.

Thanks again for the support, guys. I'll stay on this. If it comes down to these guys really not being able to keep their boy, I hope someone suitably wonderful will want him. Feel free to recommend him if you have a friend who's looking for a little sweetheart. :)

[astra]

i've recently joined another forum and cat owners there seem to deal with similar problems very often.
And, unless there are some medical issues, most of the time it has to do with emotional/psychological issues: lack of attention, changes, new people come, familiar people leave etc etc etc. Spaying/neutering has really nothing to do with the problem because even spayed and neutered cats end up with such problems.
Re-establishing relationship with the cat, establishing some reliable and solid routine, the cat's own territory, cat's potty spot etc etc etc are all involved in helping the cat stop doing it. It does take a lot of patience, consistency and time.

[DipityDane]

Can't say it enough...FELIWAY....and Dr Elsies Cat attract. These two items aren't a quick fix but a good step in helping a behavioral pee-er. The Feliway just makes for a happy cat and as cat's go, it takes little to make them UNhappy...even a new couch or moving the furniture can cause a freak out and a break in litter habits. If all medical is ruled normal(blood glucose, urinalysis, and chemistry) then, feliway and dr. Elsies is a nessesity....I too am a..."Cat lady" and live with 7 of the neurotic turkeys....We use both products just to keep harmony in the house but I can tell you, the Dr Elsies has worked numerous times when we were having "litter issues"..I have had cats actually dig into the closed bag of Dr. Elsies...not sure whats in it, but it's magic. We reccomend it to our clients as well and get rave reviews.

[Best Life]

I did not read all posts carefully for this suggestion, but I recently read that after all medical causes have been investigated by the veterinarian, Prozac can be tried and has been successful in some cases. I knew that it is used in dogs, but only just found out that it is also okay for cats. Generic (fluoxetine) is very inexpensive. If I can remember where I saw this info, I will post the link, or just ask your vet.

Also, one of my cats began inappropriate urinating after one of the neighborhood stray toms started hanging around. All of my cats are neutered/spayed, the 'stray' will be neutered as soon as I can get him in to do so and then put back outside. I also provided my cat with another litter pan on the enclosed porch, where he was peeing. He seems to appreciate that.

Another one of my cats, a female, began to lose control of her bladder when she got older. As cats go, she was not all that old, 12 yrs, I think, but it did also coincidentally begin when I was pregnant with my first child. I kept a pee pee pad under her in her favorite snoozing spots, but other than that, she just didn't seem sharp enough to know when the urge would hit her. (at my age now, I know the feeling)

Good luck to your friends with this dilemma.

[Margie]

Please tell your friend not to take the cat to a city or local shelter thinking they will try to find him a home. Unless it's a humane society type shelter, that is a no-kill shelter, they will not keep him, but put him to sleep immediately. Government run shelters are not in the business of finding homes for animals. They are there to hold "strays" for 7 days so that their owners can claim them. Then they are put up for adoption for one day, then euthanized if not adopted. With the bad economy, all shelters are overloaded and holding animals isn't much of an option. Owners that surrender a pet to a shelter is a different story. It is not a stray, so the shelter has no obligation to hold it at all. It is just more expensive for them to keep and feed it, so they euthanize them immediately.

[UDoWhat]

Please tell your friend not to take the cat to a city or local shelter thinking they will try to find him a home. Unless it's a humane society type shelter, that is a no-kill shelter, they will not keep him, but put him to sleep immediately. Government run shelters are not in the business of finding homes for animals. They are there to hold "strays" for 7 days so that their owners can claim them. Then they are put up for adoption for one day, then euthanized if not adopted. With the bad economy, all shelters are overloaded and holding animals isn't much of an option. Owners that surrender a pet to a shelter is a different story. It is not a stray, so the shelter has no obligation to hold it at all. It is just more expensive for them to keep and feed it, so they euthanize them immediately.

Yes, owner surrenders are euthanized usually within the hour. So they do not have to feed them. SO SAD!!

[SammysMom]

It would not hurt to just have them plug in a Feliway and see if it helps. The areas where he has already peed must be thoroughly cleaned and I use one of the products that repel cats from an area. Then if there is a particular spot he uses, put a cat box right there! I am very serious when I say that I was worried I would have to euthanize one of my special pets or get divorced. I was having to get up at the crack of dawn and check for puddles:sanp3 . Quick before hubby got up! I now am puddle-free!:crazy
There is not much worse than cat pee in the smell department, but with a bit of work, it can be helped. PM me if I can be of any more help. (i.e. specific product names etc.)

[Twi_prime]

Just giving JD Kitty's thread a bump, guys. Thanks for all these good thoughts so far. :)

[Twi_prime]

Great news everyone!! My friends are moving into a home that has no carpet and are going to keep J.D. and keep working with him regarding his little problem!! Also, the two are now engaged to be married. They are great people and I'm so happy for them, and for Mr. J.D.! Thanks for all of your advice and concern. :)

[SammysMom]

That is wonderful! Now, just my two cents, but give them several plug-in Feliways for a housewarming gift. It will be the best gift you can give. They need to be plugged in when the cat arrives for the first time. It might start things on the right foot! :thumbsup

[Twi_prime]

That is wonderful! Now, just my two cents, but give them several plug-in Feliways for a housewarming gift. It will be the best gift you can give. They need to be plugged in when the cat arrives for the first time. It might start things on the right foot! :thumbsup

I'll do it! :)

[gs1]

Great news everyone!! My friends are moving into a home that has no carpet and are going to keep J.D. and keep working with him regarding his little problem!! Also, the two are now engaged to be married. They are great people and I'm so happy for them, and for Mr. J.D.! Thanks for all of your advice and concern. :)

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon i'm soooo happy!!!!!!!!!!!!:grouphug

[Twi_prime]

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon i'm soooo happy!!!!!!!!!!!!:grouphug

:grouphug

[sdreamcatcher]

AWESOME NEWS!! You have great fiends willing to stick through and help J.D. and not just get rid of him!!

As far as working with him there is a show on animal planet called my cat from hell that deals with cats and issues; I personally have learned a lot just watching the shows, because so many of the issues people have are so similar. That guy is amazing and a lot of his advice really makes sense, especially with cats having their own space and being up high. Anyone who has kitties might want to check it out (though some of those owners I just want to reach through the screen and smack them, LOL!!)

[Twi_prime]

AWESOME NEWS!! You have great fiends willing to stick through and help J.D. and not just get rid of him!!

As far as working with him there is a show on animal planet called my cat from hell that deals with cats and issues; I personally have learned a lot just watching the shows, because so many of the issues people have are so similar. That guy is amazing and a lot of his advice really makes sense, especially with cats having their own space and being up high. Anyone who has kitties might want to check it out (though some of those owners I just want to reach through the screen and smack them, LOL!!)

I know that wannasmack feeling! I did look at the show clips on the show site, but didn't see anything specific to the problem. I should try to find whole shows somewhere...