DISCUSSION - Rehabbers! What do you feed your squirrels?

[mpetys]

I would like anyone who feeds multiple squirrels to chime in on a discussion on what you feed your squirrels. When I just had 3 or 4 NR's and a few rehab babies, it wasn't difficult. I just followed the healthy diet with the recommended HHB's. But as time went by, I found myself with more and more squirrels. Up until yesterday, I had 31 squirrels in my care that I was feeding. I say up until yesterday because yesterday we released 14 squirrels! I hope to update my release thread soon with pictures!

So now I have three NR's, 14 squirrels that I am overwintering for a spring release and another young one that will be brought to me the middle of the month for overwintering and release. In about a week, eleven squirrels will be brought to us to overwinter for a spring release as well. I am still feeding the just released squirrels as I leave their release portals open so they can come and go and have their new wild diet supplemented with the fruits and veggies they have been used to. After a month or so, I will start closing up release cages and make the release cage available to the oldest squirrels I am overwintering. So at that time there will be 29 squirrels being fed here.

What do others with large numbers of squirrels they are responsible for, feed them? I have heard of some that are on a rodent block only diet, others the same but supplemented with fresh veggies and some fruit. What rodent block do you use. I have been using Mazuri that I get from Petsmart but I found out that some feed stores have this block or can get it in 50 pound bags for much less. One rehabber was telling me that she pays, I think, $20 for a 50 pound bag of rodent block. I'm not sure what brand.

Any info will be appreciated!

[CritterMom]

Mazuri makes two different types of rat block - one for pet rats, which they sell in 20# bags for about $25 and one for "feeder" rats which is 50# for about $23. The difference between the two seems to be the amount of protein - the feeder rat (the cheaper stuff) is closer to what we do for our squirrels and the pet rat is quite high - 20+% protein... I buy the feeder rat to make the food for my wilds. It is softer and more porous than other rat blocks.

Purina makes Mazuri so a feed store that carries Purina feeds should be able to get it for you. I go through a 50# bag every two weeks! My wilds all look very fat and happy and OMG there are a lot of them. :D

BTW, it SMELLS...:shakehead

[mpetys]

Mazuri makes two different types of rat block - one for pet rats, which they sell in 20# bags for about $25 and one for "feeder" rats which is 50# for about $23. The difference between the two seems to be the amount of protein - the feeder rat (the cheaper stuff) is closer to what we do for our squirrels and the pet rat is quite high - 20+% protein... I buy the feeder rat to make the food for my wilds. It is softer and more porous than other rat blocks.

Purina makes Mazuri so a feed store that carries Purina feeds should be able to get it for you. I go through a 50# bag every two weeks! My wilds all look very fat and happy and OMG there are a lot of them. :D

BTW, it SMELLS...:shakehead

Good to know about the difference between the two! Since you are feeding these to your wilds, and you say it SMELLS . . . Would it be hard to deal with in the house, smellwise that is if feeding 15 - 20 squirrels indoors?

[momma2boo]

I don't have the numbers that many do but I feed Harlan Teklad. And as everyone must know by now ... I make Boo Balls for mine. The HT isn't expensive (I don't think so anyway ... I guess it depends on your interpretation of expensive and what side of the tracks you're looking from :D )

Wish I had more input.

[mpetys]

I don't have the numbers that many do but I feed Harlan Teklad. And as everyone must know by now ... I make Boo Balls for mine. The HT isn't expensive (I don't think so anyway ... I guess it depends on your interpretation of expensive and what side of the tracks you're looking from :D )

Wish I had more input.

I keep hearing about the HT blocks but don't recall seeing them at petsmart. Are they available at places like Petsmart or Petco?

[momma2boo]

I keep hearing about the HT blocks but don't recall seeing them at petsmart. Are they available at places like Petsmart or Petco?

Nope ... I order them online from thecraftyrat.com
I can send you the link if you need.

[mpetys]

Nope ... I order them online from thecraftyrat.com
I can send you the link if you need.

Please do. I would like to try them and check pricing on them.

[momma2boo]

Please do. I would like to try them and check pricing on them.

http://www.thecraftyrat.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FS_05lb&Category_Code=FS

I noticed that they are giving 10% off orders this month if you use the
coupon code DEC2011.

[dizzdigia]

I would like anyone who feeds multiple squirrels to chime in on a discussion on what you feed your squirrels. When I just had 3 or 4 NR's and a few rehab babies, it wasn't difficult. I just followed the healthy diet with the recommended HHB's. But as time went by, I found myself with more and more squirrels. Up until yesterday, I had 31 squirrels in my care that I was feeding. I say up until yesterday because yesterday we released 14 squirrels! I hope to update my release thread soon with pictures!

So now I have three NR's, 14 squirrels that I am overwintering for a spring release and another young one that will be brought to me the middle of the month for overwintering and release. In about a week, eleven squirrels will be brought to us to overwinter for a spring release as well. I am still feeding the just released squirrels as I leave their release portals open so they can come and go and have their new wild diet supplemented with the fruits and veggies they have been used to. After a month or so, I will start closing up release cages and make the release cage available to the oldest squirrels I am overwintering. So at that time there will be 29 squirrels being fed here.

What do others with large numbers of squirrels they are responsible for, feed them? I have heard of some that are on a rodent block only diet, others the same but supplemented with fresh veggies and some fruit. What rodent block do you use. I have been using Mazuri that I get from Petsmart but I found out that some feed stores have this block or can get it in 50 pound bags for much less. One rehabber was telling me that she pays, I think, $20 for a 50 pound bag of rodent block. I'm not sure what brand.

Any info will be appreciated!

I only have a couple guys but I dont use blocks (unless im making Boo Balls)
I use the trail mix that Karen Clark came up with: Zupreen fruit flavored parrot pellets, unsalted soy nuts, unsalted seseme sticks, box of Sunseed Garden wafers,regular Cheerios, Arrowhead Mills shredded wheat, raw pumpkin seeds, yogurt drops. They LOVE it! I also give them 2 nuts a day and mix up their fruits and veggies every 3-4 days for variety.
I also add Cal quick and potassium/magnesium to their water. For me this seems the safest route to go, ensuring they are getting all their nutrients as well as the correct amount of vitamins. :D

[momma2boo]

I only have a couple guys but I dont use blocks (unless im making Boo Balls)
I use the trail mix that Karen Clark came up with: Zupreen fruit flavored parrot pellets, unsalted soy nuts, unsalted seseme sticks, box of Sunseed Garden wafers,regular Cheerios, Arrowhead Mills shredded wheat, raw pumpkin seeds, yogurt drops. They LOVE it! I also give them 2 nuts a day and mix up their fruits and veggies every 3-4 days for variety.
I also add Cal quick and potassium/magnesium to their water. For me this seems the safest route to go, ensuring they are getting all their nutrients as well as the correct amount of vitamins. :D

I gotta tell you. I tried this once ... had a helluva time finding unsalted soy nuts and the sunseed garden wafers ... but my squirrels loved it. I was keeping it in a bowl in their pen as a "snacky food" and still offering them a Boo Ball first thing in the morning. They liked having it to snack on in their pen.

[dizzdigia]

I gotta tell you. I tried this once ... had a helluva time finding unsalted soy nuts and the sunseed garden wafers ... but my squirrels loved it. I was keeping it in a bowl in their pen as a "snacky food" and still offering them a Boo Ball first thing in the morning. They liked it.

They can be ordered at www.nutsonline.com :D
I have also bought Soy Beans from Publix and made my own...ive been experimenting a bit with new flavors, using Grrr as my guinea pig! :jump
If he eats it without throwing it back at me in disgust I know I have a winner!! :rotfl

[pappy1264]

I buy the 50 lb bags of Mazuri (have a feed store right down the street from me and she can get me anything I need!) I put break it down into gallon freezer bags and take out bags as I need them. I also feed greens, veggies, some fruits, some nuts, hhb's (although I switch them out...feed hhb's for a few days, then the block, so they don't get bored with either.)

[momma2boo]

They can be ordered at www.nutsonline.com :D
I have also bought Soy Beans from Publix and made my own...ive been experimenting a bit with new flavors, using Grrr as my guinea pig! :jump
If he eats it without throwing it back at me in disgust I know I have a winner!! :rotfl

You dehydrate or cook (whatever they do) your own soy beans by buying fresh edamame? That was where I had looked for the unsalted soy nuts but all I could find was salted.

(Psst ... sometimes I still give them some of the fruit bird pellets. They think of it as a special treat. I gotta tell ya ... the dry mix was so much easier than mixing Boo Balls. So easy to scoop some into their bowls)

Sorry Michele about the :threadjack ... I got way :offtopic
Back to your previously scheduled program. LOL

[mpetys]

You dehydrate or cook (whatever they do) your own soy beans by buying fresh edamame? That was where I had looked for the unsalted soy nuts but all I could find was salted.

(Psst ... sometimes I still give them some of the fruit bird pellets. They think of it as a special treat. I gotta tell ya ... the dry mix was so much easier than mixing Boo Balls. So easy to scoop some into their bowls)

Sorry Michele about the :threadjack ... I got way :offtopic
Back to your previously scheduled program. LOL

I didn't see any threadjacking! :jump Actually, I have tried the Zupreem fruit bird pellets. I did add some other things to it but it was a waste with my guys but, for what it's worth, they love the zupreem pellets. I add the Mazuri blocks to give them choices. I gotta tell you, the other day I gathered all their bowls, some were empty, some had pee in them so I washed everything and filled their bowls with the pellets. After I finished, I sat down and it was like music to my ears. Crunch, crunch, crunch. I looked around and these squirrels were sitting, all hunched over, crunching on the pellets in their hands. Fourteen squirrels all at once! The pieces are different colors and shapes. I don't know what it is about the purple ones, but that is the flavor that is least liked! Some squirrels will eat most of the purple but some like my sweet, Charlotte are a hoot. I go look at her bowl and in the bottom I thought she had pooped in her bowl, but no, it was the purple pellets. She refuses to eat them!

[dizzdigia]

You dehydrate or cook (whatever they do) your own soy beans by buying fresh edamame? That was where I had looked for the unsalted soy nuts but all I could find was salted.

(Psst ... sometimes I still give them some of the fruit bird pellets. They think of it as a special treat. I gotta tell ya ... the dry mix was so much easier than mixing Boo Balls. So easy to scoop some into their bowls)

Sorry Michele about the :threadjack ... I got way :offtopic
Back to your previously scheduled program. LOL

Yes, I slow cook/dehydrate them (also do it for the pumpkin seeds too sometimes as they BOTH love them cooked way better than the raw). It is alot easier plus Grrr says much tastier! :D

Yes, SOOO sorry Michele...i'll go hide now! :hidechair

[mpetys]

My guys all get a good variety of veggies every day. The love, love, love, any type of hard squash, acorn, turban, butternut etc. I haven't found any that they do not eat. I am seriously planning on TRYING to grow most of their veggies by summertime. I had a garden several years ago and I know I can do it again. I grew, the hard squash, zuchinni, yellow sqush, peppers, cucumbers, snow peas, green beans, tomatos and watermelon. That was just for me. Now I have more incentive with all these squirrels!

I have a question though about fresh veggies. I know I have heard not to feed the squirrels dehydrated fruit as the sugars are concentrated and that is not good. What about dehydrating veggies? I bought a case of zuchinni yesterday at Restaurant Depot and I just kept wondering if I could dehydrate them and give them to the squirrels as a crunchy treat. Be a good way of making sure nothing goes to waste. Any thoughts on this? Pros or cons?

[mpetys]

I buy the 50 lb bags of Mazuri (have a feed store right down the street from me and she can get me anything I need!) I put break it down into gallon freezer bags and take out bags as I need them. I also feed greens, veggies, some fruits, some nuts, hhb's (although I switch them out...feed hhb's for a few days, then the block, so they don't get bored with either.)

and these zip lock bags are they just stored at room temperature? I'm guessing yes. My feed store is supposed to be checking on pricing on 50 lb bags. They said they could get it. I was disappointed with Petsmart. When I asked if they could do special orders on products in larger sizes, they said they do not do special orders. I was thinking, at the time, that the Mazuri surely must come in a bigger size than the 2 - 3 pound size they have on the shelf even if Petsmart didn't carry it but they wouldn't even talk about special orders! I have 3 or 4 feed stores I shop at so I can check with all of them and see who can get what and at what price!

[momma2boo]

I personally store all foods (FV, HT,and pecans) in the freezer. Because I order in large quantities (cheaper) I want to extend the shelf-life.

Also, based on Mary saying she used "freezer" bags and mentioned that she "takes them out" as needed I would assume she stores them in the freezer.

[mpetys]

I personally store all foods (FV, HT,and pecans) in the freezer. Because I order in large quantities (cheaper) I want to extend the shelf-life.

Also, based on Mary saying she used "freezer" bags and mentioned that she "takes them out" as needed I would assume she stores them in the freezer.

Oh, I'm a bit slow. didn't pick up on that. Probably cause I buy freezer bags and end up using them for EVERYTHING! Then kick myself for not buying the cheaper storage bags! I have a big freezer and got in the bad habit of keeping it full. Only thing is, too much is wasted as I forget what I have in there or it gets buried. I want to stop buying food and live off my freezer, get it emptied out and have one shelf for me and Gene and use the rest for the squirrels and dogs. I used to make my own dog food until I got sick a couple of years ago and just had no energy. My dogs did so much better on it. I want to start doing that again for them.

[momma2boo]

Oh, I'm a bit slow. didn't pick up on that. Probably cause I buy freezer bags and end up using them for EVERYTHING! Then kick myself for not buying the cheaper storage bags! I have a big freezer and got in the bad habit of keeping it full. Only thing is, too much is wasted as I forget what I have in there or it gets buried. I want to stop buying food and live off my freezer, get it emptied out and have one shelf for me and Gene and use the rest for the squirrels and dogs. I used to make my own dog food until I got sick a couple of years ago and just had no energy. My dogs did so much better on it. I want to start doing that again for them.

Not to get too far off topic but could you email me and tell me how you did that? I would love to feed my dogs homemade food.

BTW ... did you ever get your S&P shakers?

[Margie]

I just ordered some Mazuri blocks from Chris' Squirrels and they had a larger bag than the 3 # and they have the monkey chow. I didn't think that parrot food was good for them? I did get some dehydrated fruit treats for Stormy Lee and she wouldn't eat them.

[mpetys]

I just ordered some Mazuri blocks from Chris' Squirrels and they had a larger bag than the 3 # and they have the monkey chow. I didn't think that parrot food was good for them? I did get some dehydrated fruit treats for Stormy Lee and she wouldn't eat them.

This is not parrot food with seeds and corn in it. It is a pellet. Think small fruit flavored rat block! From their website:

•21 vitamins and minerals in every bite
•Contains fresh ground fruit for a taste and aroma birds love
•Larger pellet sizes have five different fruit shapes and colors
•Naturally Preserved

They love it. I buy the bag for the larger parrots as the pieces are bigger and easier for them to pick up, hold and eat.

I have never used the monkey chow but have of others using it and it is always on the lists with the recommended rat blocks. I may order some to try.

[island rehabber]

ok.....FWIW I'll tell you what works for me, and has been working for the past 7-8 years, of course always tweaking and refining as I go along:

1 day old - eyes open: FV 32/40 only. NO whipping cream, no yoghurt, no rice cereal, no nuttin'.

Eyes open - 7 wks: FV 20/50, Zupreem monkey biscuits OR Kay-Tee Forti Diet (I find it easier to start little ones on the monkey biscuits for some reason.)
Rat & Mouse blocks. 1 HHB in the morning. NO other solid foods until they love their blocks.

8 wks onward: FV 20/50 for as long as they want
Kay-Tee blocks or monkey biscuit available at all times.
HHB's - 1 morning, 1 night
Green veggies: dandelions, chickory, kale, escarole, snow AND sugar snap pea pods, broccoli
cauliflower. radicchio. endive. arugula, avocado
YAMA potato; regular sweet potato
Acorn or butternut squash if they'll eat it
1-2 almonds in the evening; acorns if available

.....at 10-11 wks I start giving them walnuts and when they can crack one without assistance (12-14 wks) they are Ready To GO :alright.gif. I also forage for as many wild foods as I can find around here, including pine cones, tree buds, rose hips, bark, etc etc. I give them seashells and cuttlebones to chew for calcium. I truly try NOT to give my squirrels foods that an Eastern Grey Squirrel in NYC would not ever see in his geographical hemisphere (like coconut, tropical fruits or vegetables) but I make an exception for avocado. :)

I don't feed cereal of any kind, pellets, crackers, trail mix or baby food. It's just my way and I'm not saying anyone who does is wrong. But this works for me. What counts is if your squirrels look good, and mine do, before and after release. Although I have no NR's, I have overwintered (10+ months) and have never had MBD on my watch, with this diet. Hope this helps! :peace

[mpetys]

ok.....FWIW I'll tell you what works for me, and has been working for the past 7-8 years, of course always tweaking and refining as I go along:

1 day old - eyes open: FV 32/40 only. NO whipping cream, no yoghurt, no rice cereal, no nuttin'.

Eyes open - 7 wks: FV 20/50, Zupreem monkey biscuits OR Kay-Tee Forti Diet (I find it easier to start little ones on the monkey biscuits for some reason.)
Rat & Mouse blocks. 1 HHB in the morning. NO other solid foods until they love their blocks.

8 wks onward: FV 20/50 for as long as they want
Kay-Tee blocks or monkey biscuit available at all times.
HHB's - 1 morning, 1 night
Green veggies: dandelions, chickory, kale, escarole, snow pea pods, broccoli
cauliflower. radicchio. endive. arugula, avocado
YAMA potato; regular sweet potato
Acorn or butternut squash if they'll eat it
1-2 almonds in the evening; acorns if available

.....at 10-11 wks I start giving them walnuts and when they can crack one without assistance (12-14 wks) they are Ready To GO :alright.gif. I also forage for as many wild foods as I can find around here, including pine cones, tree buds, rose hips, bark, etc etc. I give them seashells and cuttlebones to chew for calcium. I truly try NOT to give my squirrels foods that an Eastern Grey Squirrel in NYC would not ever see in his geographical hemisphere (like coconut, tropical fruits or vegetables) but I make an exception for avocado. :)

I don't feed cereal of any kind, pellets, crackers, trail mix or baby food. It's just my way and I'm not saying anyone who does is wrong. But this works for me. What counts is if your squirrels look good, and mine do, before and after release. Although I have no NR's, I have overwintered (10+ months) and have never had MBD on my watch, with this diet. Hope this helps! :peace




Thanks for the input IR, but I don't need no information on 1 day olds!! They scare me. Although I had one this year that scared me. I can't remember how old she was, but below is a picture of what she looked like when I got her. She scared me!

I'm with you, I don't add anything to their Fox Valley. I have used the Ultra Boost and LA 200 when needed. I do switch over to the 20/50 when eyes open or if I have a mixed group of babies, I do try to keep it simple with one formula and will keep one on the 32 /40 for a bit longer. I do believe that you can get them to eat blocks by starting them on them first, early on. I love to watch them pick them up and nibble. The discovery. But once I add veggies, the blocks seem to fall by the wayside a bit. Not as appealing. :dono

I have never had any crazy about the snow peas. Sugar snap peas, yes. Dandelions when I can get them. And the hard squashes are a staple here. I buy every kind but especially if it is 99 cents per pound or less!

One thing I have changed is that I am waiting longer before I give nuts.

Oh, I have to tell the story of the one of the last squirrels I took in. It is kinda nutrition related. He was about 4 months old. The couple that had him, could not release on their property because of predators. He was brought over in a cat carrier. I had a cage all ready for him on a table on my front screened porch. As I reached in to pull him out, the gentlemen would not help as he never handled the squirrel. I got him out and before you knew it, he got away from me and ended up on top of my head. I was praying, "please don't pee on me". After much grabbing, I got him, got a few nips in the process as this gentleman and my husband watched. My husband wanted to help but if he doesn't know the squirrel, he is afraid. MonkeyButt put the fear into him. So, I get this boy into his cage. The guy starts emptying out his cat carrier and gave him his blankets which I put in the cage for him and then dumped a whole crapload of COOKIES and nuts in his cage and some of those tiny corn on the cob treats and some hay pellets for rabbits. My heart sank. I gave this boy a piece of broccoli and right away he showed some interest in it. He carried it to a corner to hide it but kept going back to pick it up and smell it and nibble. I wondered if this was his first real food. After the guy left, I looked at the assortment of nuts he left on the table for the squirrel. There were peanuts in there that had what looked like a green mold on them. AAACCKK!

After I got him in the house in my squirrel room, I removed all the crap out of his cage, fixed him a bowl of veggies with fresh water. As I was cleaning other cages in the room, I would peek over at him and he was checking out his food bowl. He sampled everything. The next morning, I removed his bowl and was pleased to see little shreds where he sat there at the bowl and ate. I did find some veggies hid under his fleece but was pleased with what he ate. When I am in the room, he watches me, curious. He is still a bit shy, scared, but when he crawls under the fleece, I reach in and massage him and he lets me. Yesterday, his rear end and tail were out from under the fleece so when I massaged him, I was able to touch finger to fur and he liked it.

What was so sad was that while the guy that brought him over did not handle him at all and was glad to get him out of his house, when he walked out the screen door towards his vehicle, this little boy stood up, at attention with double paw tuck and just watched. It was really sad. Even though there was no interaction, this little squirrel knew that this guy was his "people". Anyhow, I am glad his is here to be overwintered as I want to make sure he is eating good and is healthy before he is released!

Ok, I think I just threadjacked my own thread! But one more thing. The next day I found one of those yummy chocolate oatmeal no bake cookies on the floor of my porch. That must have been from his carrier as I haven't had any of those cookies since I lost the recipe years ago! Poor baby. He certaily does not act like he misses any of that junk. I am even withholding nuts from him right now just to make sure he is eating everything else.

[CritterMom]

The name/ID# of the 50# bags of Mazuri is Mazuri Rodent 6F.

I "cook" mine - that is I mix them with a little bit of canola oil, a blob of penaut butter, stir it up and nuke them until the oil/PB mixture is boiling, hen allow them to cool. This drives the peanut butter taste through the blocks and the wilds don't even leave crumbs behind. It is the "cooking" that releases the smell - you wouldn't notice it otherwise.

That said, if I was going to be feeding my rehab squirrels instead of literally hundreds of wilds, I would go for the Harlan Teklad. They are very reasonably priced and I believe a better quality block than the Mazuri.

[island rehabber]

Michele, omg that poor pinky Danielle....did she survive? I would not be at all surprised if she didn't -- she is severely emaciated/dehydrated. If she did, all I can say is YOU need to do more pinkies. :thumbsup

Re the block vs veggies: give them only blocks first thing in the morning, and veggies later on around 10-11am. Timing the kinds of foods properly is key with these guys. I ONLY give nuts, and very few of them, in the evening when it's getting dark. Otherwise the brats will hold out all morning for nuts.....and eat nothing else.

As for that poor boy you took in, well we've learned from Jackie's Hope and Richard that squirrels can take unbelievable neglect and abuse, and survive. The key is to consistently provide a top-notch diet for them and never let them slide back into junk eating....this is your only hope of reversing whatever damage was done before.

EDIT: yeah I meant sugar snap pea pods....once they get a taste of those they won't go back to the snow peas.....

[Jackie in Tampa]

I come in peace:peace
however..I do not want new members to think that feeding parrot food etc is healthy for sqs.
I do not believe it is and would not feed it. I do not believe that Karen Clark's diet, as posted above, is adequate for the long-term health of squirrels.

I am not looking for an argument, and will not participate in one.
I am stating my 2 cents as everyone else has.

I have seen a lot of things that most only read about...especially MBD...
seizures are not pretty and death is a strong possibility...

I am posting to let others know there are other options to feeding squirrels long-term that have been proven wonderful.
The choice I have made looks good on sqs...
NOT ONE SEIZURE here since I started MY CHOICE diet.
I do not believe in feeding any treats...never, none...nada.
Nuts are not treats.
In order for sqs to eat what will help them, they do not get junk food ever.

1 HHB while I have morning coffee.
after noon.. a varied plate of veggies..
always 7 or so different veggies...
here is what they had yesterday as an example:
broccolli, romaine, butternut squash, mushroom, avacodo, cucumber, cranberries and a chunk of apple

later in the evening I gave small bowls of FV to those who lap,
yogurt with FV or Vitamix to the others {yesterday, FV}
and an HHB to those who will not eat dairy.
I allow nuts..at night as I tuck them in and during their daily outta cage times.

I would never suggest anything in the water bottle...just fresh delicious water.


I hope that this helps with the decisions...
I have posted pics of my sqs for years...
I have always had an open door to those who wanna see for themselves.
My sqs are beautiful, healthy and above all
HAPPY!

[Pierre]

Oh Michele!
You are such a squirrel whisperer!

As you know, I have a small rattery and I am very pro Harlan Teklad's.
They are the most researched block out there and the research is immense. They have been researched to increase health and longevity, not just showing that they're nutritionally sound to get approved for sale [like the other rat blocks].

My background is all clinical trial oriented, that's why I always ask about the data... These have it in spades.

Along with craftyrat.com, which sells 15 pounds of HT for ~$16.00, you can also buy Native Earth rat block which IS Harlan Teklad.

Harlan Teklad as we know, doesn't really sell direct to the general public. Their market is huge in the research world. They are well aware that the general public though has found their food to feed their pets, so they created a line called Native Earth to be sold directly to the consumer. Amazon, Pet Direct, and others sell it online.
I've seen 40 pound bags for $19.99!!! Amazing prices for an amazing food. :thumbsup

[momma2boo]

My background is all clinical trial oriented, that's why I always ask about the data... These have it in spades.

Harlan Teklad as we know, doesn't really sell direct to the general public. Their market is huge in the research world. They are well aware that the general public though has found their food to feed their pets, so they created a line called Native Earth to be sold directly to the consumer. Amazon, Pet Direct, and others sell it online.
I've seen 40 pound bags for $19.99!!! Amazing prices for an amazing food. :thumbsup

WOW WOW WOW WOW .... :thankyou :thankyou :thankyou :thankyou

That is very useful information ... thank you Pierre! You know I love Harlan Teklad blocks. I trust them because of their extensive research. In a pinch (desperation) I would use and even suggest Kaytee Forti-diet, simply because it is readily available in pet stores but my block of choice is HT (in or out of the Boo Ball).

I am so glad Michele started this thread ... I might not have ever found this out. :thumbsup So, one more :thankyou !

[pappy1264]

Yes, I have a huge freezer downstairs, keep all my stuff (block, nuts--both in and out of shell, etc) in there. I take out one bag at a time, open it up, let it sit on the counter for a few hours, then pour into glass jars with lids, making sure any condensation has disapated. I keep a jar of each in my cabinets for feeding.

[momma2boo]

Dizzdigia ... do you or Karen know the nutritional make up of this mixture? I would be interested in it and I am sure that would help anyone who is unsure of or questions the nutritional elements. :thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

FYI
Karen Clark likes my rehab methods..I have been told this for years.
The sources for this info has been several reliable members.:)
She has also had me rehab sqs that were meant for her...but I was closer.
FYI!

[Jackie in Tampa]

Dizzdigia ... do you or Karen know the nutritional make up of this mixture? I would be interested in it and I am sure that would help anyone who is unsure of or questions the nutritional elements. :thumbsupthere ya go, good question!:thumbsup

[island rehabber]

I have marina work to do and must sign out -- BE NICE, PEOPLE.
Look again at the first word of the title of this thread, and DISCUSS.

It's ABOUT SQUIRRELS, not egos.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have marina work to do and must sign out -- BE NICE, PEOPLE.
Look again at the first word of the title of this thread, and DISCUSS.

It's ABOUT SQUIRRELS, not egos.

me too...I got sqs to tend!:wave123
have a good day!

[mpetys]

Oh Michele!
You are such a squirrel whisperer!

As you know, I have a small rattery and I am very pro Harlan Teklad's.
They are the most researched block out there and the research is immense. They have been researched to increase health and longevity, not just showing that they're nutritionally sound to get approved for sale [like the other rat blocks].

My background is all clinical trial oriented, that's why I always ask about the data... These have it in spades.

Along with craftyrat.com, which sells 15 pounds of HT for ~$16.00, you can also buy Native Earth rat block which IS Harlan Teklad.

Harlan Teklad as we know, doesn't really sell direct to the general public. Their market is huge in the research world. They are well aware that the general public though has found their food to feed their pets, so they created a line called Native Earth to be sold directly to the consumer. Amazon, Pet Direct, and others sell it online.
I've seen 40 pound bags for $19.99!!! Amazing prices for an amazing food. :thumbsup

This shows how little I know. I did not know that HT was not available to the public. No wonder I could never find it at the pet stores. I wondered why people were willing to buy it online and pay shipping! :jump

Thank you for posting this equally important information. I was even stopping in small, mom and pop pet stores thinking they might carry it. You just saved me a lot of wasted time! :D

[dizzdigia]

Dizzdigia ... do you or Karen know the nutritional make up of this mixture? I would be interested in it and I am sure that would help anyone who is unsure of or questions the nutritional elements. :thumbsup

I just emailed Karen for it :thumbsup

[mpetys]

I find it interesting that dietary discussions on this Board tend to become the most heated. Maybe it is because people think that there is accepted evidence driven recommendations for nutritional requirements. My area of expertise is Vitamin D/FGF-23/Klotho/Calcium/Phosphorus axis in humans, specifically related to kidney disease. I have done clinical research in this area for a number of years and written several papers on the topic. I am not sharing this to impress you that I know something about calcium requirements in squirrels – in fact it is just the opposite! There has literally been billions of dollars spent researching this in humans and I can easily find 10 PhD/MD super-experts in this area that would struggle to come to any agreement on dietary calcium requirements or needed phosphorus restrictions in CKD-MBD. The point is that even an esteemed researcher like Dr. Clavert (who I don’t know anything about) really has little evidence to support his nutritional recommendations for squirrels, which is why he might one day agree that 2500 mg/day is adequate yet on another say 5000mg/day. This is not to slight his expertise – he/she obviously knows a lot more than most. What I would like to suggest is that if extremely experienced squirrel rehabbers like Karen or Jackie or 4skwerlz or Island Rehabber have had success with a long term diet then they are all probably just fine - it is mostly a matter of personal preference! So I think an intellectual discussion on this topic is very enlightening for all, but the idea that one of these diets can be scientifically proven to be superior to the other is unlikely – unless someone is going to provide you a couple of million dollar grant to do the research.

Sorry - not trying to preach anything just an interesting observation about the emotion surrounding these discussions.

The best thing coming out of this thread for me is finding out about Native Earth rodent blocks – thank you Pierre!

Thank you for posting madtowntom! I totally agree with your sentiments. We are all here because we care about squirrels.

[Pierre]

This has been answered many, many times. It is based on the NRLA requirements, adapted for a squirrels greater avg body size and food intake, and was approved by Dr. Calvert 3 1/2 years ago.

I've [or plenty others] never seen it answered.

How exactly does it get from 75mg to 330mg?? That's a big jump.

There were calculations done, what were they?

I'm asking in peace. :peace

[momma2boo]

I think I have said this before but I will be the first to admit that I am not knowledgeable on the science of squirrel or rat nutrition. This report is over my head. But what stands out to me is when Dr. Calvert stated, "I don’t know why the calcium level would be at 330 mg per day unless the squirrel was lactating or very large for the average squirrel. But on a consistent diet, larger squirrels would eat more and get more calcium."

OMG, I was just getting ready to post that same quote and ask about it after reading through Leigh's post.

I don't quite understand the discrepancy and really want to.

[island rehabber]

:shakehead

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

:hissyfit :hissyfit :hissyfit :hissyfit :hissyfit
I"M SO CONFUSED

thank you I feel better now:D

[momma2boo]

I don't understand ... I thought this discussion has been very good and full of what could be useful information for our squirrels. If there have been changes in the nutritional recommendations then I would seem to think we would all welcome the additional knowledge.

Here I thought we all handled ourselves like grown ups and yet we get the disapproving :shakehead.

[iwonka]

:confused:

I have a headache.
I go .. I have to prepare dinner for my boyfriend.. That's easy!

[astra]

:confused:

I have a headache.
I go .. I have to prepare dinner for my boyfriend.. That's easy!
:rotfl

[keetz1205]

I'm curious as well as where the 330 mg was derived from.

[mpetys]

Any luck on this?

I responded to this earlier with what I know so far. I am hoping to get more information, but it may be like pulling teeth trying to get info from the manufacturer. I was told that they are a privately owned company and consider that proprietary information. It is frustrating to have legitimate questions and not be able to get answers.



This is what I know. As I got to the point of no longer being able to afford to feed HHB's, even if I made them myself (plus who has time to make blocks for 30+ squirrels when there are cages to be cleaned?), I knew I had to look for alternatives. I have talked to several rehabbers who I felt were in the same position or on a much larger scale than what I was caring for. Some feed rodent blocks along with veggies. I wasn't confident that squirrels would eat enough of the rodent block consistently, to get what they needed. Another rehabber I spoke to was Karen. She has been feeding her mixture to squirrels for ten years plus and has raised hundreds of squirrels on it. Squirrels that have been released and squirrels in her care as NR's. I decided to get some and add it in with the Mazuri blocks. What I found is that they love it! Just last night, I cleaned their bowls and gave them all the Fruit Blend pellets. I do not add all the other stuff Karen does for variety as mine seem to be pretty satisfied with the pellets themselves. Anyhow, it is absolute music to my ears to hear 14 squirrels all going to their bowls and grabbing a pellet and all I hear is CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH.

I have many concerns as to whether this is meeting their nutritional needs. I do know that I have compared the Zupreem Fruit Blend Pellets to the Zupreem Primate Diet (as that is recommended by other rehabbers here on TSB) and found that their ingredients and vitamin/mineral contents is very similar. I did try to get more exact information from Zupreem as far as getting actual numbers but found out that they are a privately owned company and that information is proprietary, they do not disclose. I was told that they are aware that many rehabbers use their product for squirrels. I was also told that many parrot owners will buy the Primate Diet Dry biscuits, moisten them and feed it to baby birds. As with pharmaceutical companies, there are some uses for their products that they do not promote but they know that there is widespread use of.

With MBD being so feared, rightfully so, I understand that it is so important to get the calcium right. I have tried to get a better understanding of this and, naturally, have worried that I may not be getting that part right. With that in mind, I asked Karen more detailed questions. How does she know this is good? She just tells me that she has raised healthy squirrels and even the NR's who are compromised one way or another, are living 8 - 10 or longer. She has one that is 14 years old. She told me that she has written to Professor Calvert, one of the co-authors of Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals, Fourth Revised Edition, 1995 to get his opinion on the diet she was feeding to her squirrels. She said he responded by saying that he said he had visited her website and was impressed with her facility and her work in animal rescue. He said that he felt she was doing an above average job of meeting the nutritional requirements of the animals in her care and felt there was no need to change anything.

I recently asked Karen if she felt this diet was meeting the requirement of 330mg of calcium per day and was told that she feels this is too much. So I was left again with questions. How can this diet be "above average" but possibly not meeting the calcium requirements accepted by most. This weekend, Karen forwarded an email to me from Professor Calvert. It seems that after I asked about the calcium requirements, she emailed Professor Calvert and just told him that several people had asked her about the calcium requirement of 330 mg per day and she wanted his opinion on this. She stated her opinion that she thought this to be too high. She listed what she feeds the squirrels in her care. Professor Calvert responded to her email by saying, "I don’t know why the calcium level would be at 330 mg per day unless the squirrel was lactating or very large for the average squirrel. But on a consistent diet, larger squirrels would eat more and get more calcium. The attached manuscript recommends 2500 mg Ca/kg diet. For the rats in this research effort, this amounts to about 35-40 mg/rat/day. I hope this helps you feel more comfortable about your calcium level. "

So, I hope this answers any questions on how I came to accept that what I am feeding works for me. The email from Professor Calvert, I think should be further explored for the well being of our squirrels.

[jo_schmoe]

Ya know...its about time a thread such as this was opened.
I also feed Karens mix to my squirrels. Rocky and Rhoada have been on it for going on 2 years now and ( well...you guys have seen them)...they are very healthy.
The Reds are all on the mix but they will eat block too so they get both.

Whats sad is that its hard for me to say in open forum what I feed because it seems to create problems. Why I will never understand.
Will I change their diet??? No...I will not. I will give them what keeps them healthy and stick with that.
I do however change the mix up a bit for the different squirrels I have because I do believe there are nutritional differences according to species.
It seems most research done is for your common grey squirrel....and probably not real research at all. (hence why we base everything off of lab rats) . I will most likely never see a grey in my life.....so I have to do my own research and well experiment if you like to find what best suits my squirrels. Why would someone go through this much time and trouble....thats easy.....I LOVE SQUIRRELS. I owe it to them to give them what I feel is best and also to learn more about their needs.

This thread is exactly what TSB needs....a place where ALL of us can feel comfortable sharing what is working best for them. Understand that we do not all live in Florida and we do not all have grey squirrels. Climate and regional flora play a BIG part in determining what is healthy for our squirrels. I can't stress this enough. It would make for a very nice discussion.....:thumbsup

[UDoWhat]

Hi, Michele, great thread. I would like to chime in here too. I feed a diet very similar to IR's'. My squirrels diet's consist of 80% rodent block. I use Mazuri, KayTee Forti diet, or ProLab 5P00/ RHM 3000 made by LabDiet. Here is the link to LabDiet: http://labdiet.com/pdf/5p00.pdf . I often use this because it is available in a 50# bag for $19.00. ( And less than 5 miles from my house). I offer different block on different days for variety. I don't often mix it together. I use Zupreem Primate Diet and my own recipe for Squirrel Block Cookies as treats and vegetables and fruits. I give in-shell nuts (2 each per squirrel) 1- 2 x per week. Usually 1 day per week I offer only rodent block and 1 other choice. On most days I offer 3-4 different veggies or fruits in the late morning after the block has been eaten some. I am pretty strict with my squirrels diets. Some of the veggies and fruits offered include, but are not limited to: apple, broccoli, dandelion greens, sugar snap peas, kale, green beans, zucchini, pumpkin, all kinds of squash, cranberries, blue berries, strawberries, watermelon, mushrooms, radicchio, sweet potato, corn, and more. And just for fun on High days and holidays, I offer block and in-shell nuts. They are so crazy on those few days.
I believe we all feed somewhat differently but it seems to work for a lot of squirrels at TSB.

Marty

[jo_schmoe]

Ok....so I understand the whole concept behind basing a squirrels nutritional needs off of rats.
What I'm struggling with is that it seems to be considered "acceptable" to feed primate food to a squirrel but not parrot pellets......:thinking

Thank you for sharing your diet Marty.....its nice to see and hear what is working for everyone.!! :thumbsup

[island rehabber]

What I'm struggling with is that it seems to be considered "acceptable" to feed primate food to a squirrel but not parrot pellets......:thinking


Primates and squirrels are both mammals. Birds are not. I was taught that Eastern greys need very very little fruit and, in fact, don't eat much of it in the wild at all. That's why I would not feed a diet that includes significant fruit and sugar. Are Florida squirrels different in their fruit intake? Maybe....not sure. :dono

[jo_schmoe]

Any luck on this?
Because Zupreem will not give out their info ( I tried a long time ago when I first was introduced to this diet....no go) I thought it only right to share some of what I DO know about the diet that I and others feed.
It was designed by a vet who worked in a zoo for many years. It was also approved by Dr. Calvert who stated that it was "above average in providing the nutritional requirements for a squirrel."
So......if it works....was designed by a vet....AND approved by the same person that helped design HHB's.....then what's the problem???

[jo_schmoe]

Primates and squirrels are both mammals. Birds are not. I was taught that Eastern greys need very very little fruit and, in fact, don't eat much of it in the wild at all. That's why I would not feed a diet that includes significant fruit and sugar. Are Florida squirrels different in their fruit intake? Maybe....not sure. :dono
They may both be mammals.....but wow.....on two separate ends of that spectrum.
They may not eat much fruit in the wild.....but is that made up for in natural things such as tree sap and other things of the sugary sort??
You would think if there was a problem with sugar or fruit in this diet that Dr. Calvert would have said something.......:dono

[island rehabber]

They may both be mammals.....but wow.....on two separate ends of that spectrum.
They may not eat much fruit in the wild.....but is that made up for in natural things such as tree sap and other things of the sugary sort??
You would think if there was a problem with sugar or fruit in this diet that Dr. Calvert would have said something.......:dono

I just don't see where a grey squirrel would find crackers and Cheerios growing on trees in a natural setting :D.

[jo_schmoe]

Primates and squirrels are both mammals. Birds are not. I was taught that Eastern greys need very very little fruit and, in fact, don't eat much of it in the wild at all. That's why I would not feed a diet that includes significant fruit and sugar. Are Florida squirrels different in their fruit intake? Maybe....not sure. :dono
If the small amount of sugar is a problem....then just feed the veggie ones.....which by the way they like better anyways!!! Don't know why....but they do!! :peace
Im currently using 3 types of pellets....fruit, veggie and nut flavored. Much to my surprise...they don't like the nut ones.
Can't fool my guys at ALL!!! LOL

[jo_schmoe]

I just don't see where a grey squirrel would find crackers and Cheerios growing on trees in a natural setting :D.
Crackers?? There are no crackers in the mix.....at least not the mix I make. As far as cheerios...I first learned to feed cheerios here...on TSB....when the foxers were babies. I don't put those in my mix either as no one will eat them.

You have just about as good of a chance seeing such things grow on trees as you would a wild North Dakota Fox squirrel eating a piece of broccoli......:D ....but I still feed broccoli....daily.

[island rehabber]

fruit pellets......unsalted sesame sticks...... wafers.... regular Cheerios.....
shredded wheat


:nonothat's a LOT of sugar. Carbohydrates = sugar. Nutrition 101. Ask any diabetic.

I'm not convinced, sorry. Going to beddie-bye.

[jo_schmoe]

fruit pellets......unsalted sesame sticks...... wafers.... regular Cheerios.....
shredded wheat


:nonothat's a LOT of sugar. Carbohydrates = sugar. Nutrition 101. Ask any diabetic.

I'm not convinced, sorry. Going to beddie-bye.

No sugar AT ALL in shredded wheat.....0%
Cheerios are not eaten.....so they don't go in MY mix. If they are a problem then they should not be recommended as a good "starter" food.
The Sunseed Garden Wafers are for rodents....its not a box of wheat thins.
Sesame Sticks are optional. I don't use them as my guys hate them.
If the sugar content was a problem....you would think the squirrel would eat all the sugary stuff first.....SO not the case. Thats the stuff they throw out.

I don't need to be schooled in nutrition.......and it is not my goal to convince anyone to switch or change what they are doing if what they are doing works....but as a TSB member I should have the right to say how I feed without being told how "wrong" it is. I could understand this sort of thing if I was a new to rehabbing....or had a high mortality rate....or had sick squirrels.....but I don't.....NOT at all!!
This diet has been fed to squirrels for 10 plus years and not ONE.....I repeat ONE squirrel has had diabetes.....0....nada!

[jo_schmoe]

IR....I happen to know a great deal about nutrition and how it works....so I thought I should pass this on to you so it may clear up some confusion about diabetes what does and does not cause it.
I also took your advice and just to double check what I was reading...( just cuz its on the web doesn't mean its accurate)....I asked my mom...who I think I had mentioned before is a retired medical pro but also who deals with my diabetic dad....and she confirmed what I was reading was accurate.
Fruit does not cause diabetes....neither do carbs.
This may help clear up the confusion.
http://www.13.waisays.com/diabetes.htm

[island rehabber]

Alrighty then, if sugar/carbs don't cause (Type II) diabetes I'll be damned if I know what does. Why do all these Americans living on gallons of sugary Coke & Pepsi now have it? But I'm certainly no scientist so I'll just walk away from this one; I'm just old, and observing what I've been seeing. My BF's sister gave me the same line last month as she spooned a mountain of white sugar into her coffee (she's Type II): "my doctor says it's FINE!" uh......ok...knock y'self out....:thinking :D

BOTTOM LINE: There is no final answer as to the perfect diet for captive squirrels. YOU choose what to feed, and YOU bear the consequences of your decision. :peace

[lilidukes]

i personally like the fact that 4skwerlz questions everything. but why is it that the hhb's are the only food for squirrels that tells all and leigh is always willing to change if needed? got to wonder:thinking

leigh :thankyou for being willing to make things difficult for yourself to insure my squirrels continued good health:thumbsup

[island rehabber]

I also feed Karens mix to my squirrels.

no, actually you don't....you leave things out.:)



Cheerios are not eaten.....so they don't go in MY mix. If they are a problem then they should not be recommended as a good "starter" food.
Sesame Sticks are optional. I don't use them as my guys hate them

[UDoWhat]

Hellooooooooooooooo, I am looking for the discussion on what other rehabilitators feed. Any one know where to find it??? Let's discuss !!! PLEASE!!!!:rotfl :rotfl

Marty

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Just popped in to look up some info and seen this thread. I actually just purchased our nr Riley some bird pellets that Lynnin had recommended for years, that her Sammy did so well with. (Her vet recommended them to her.) He's a very healthy guy. I have always used Mazuri and all the babies have done wonderfully on them using a recipie Chris Clark gave. Chris being one of the founding rehabbers of the board. Riley seems to love the pellets. Looking for some change for him.
---Harrison's Organic to be exact.

[momma2boo]

Just popped in to look up some info and seen this thread. I actually just purchased our nr Riley some bird pellets that Lynnin had recommended for years, that her Sammy did so well with. (Her vet recommended them to her.) He's a very healthy guy. I have always used Mazuri and all the babies have done wonderfully on them using a recipie Chris Clark gave. Chris being one of the founding rehabbers of the board. Riley seems to love the pellets. Looking for some change for him.
---Harrison's Organic to be exact.

Harrison's is good stuff! :thumbsup I love feeding my crew anything organic.

[mpetys]

Hellooooooooooooooo, I am looking for the discussion on what other rehabilitators feed. Any one know where to find it??? Let's discuss !!! PLEASE!!!!:rotfl :rotfl

Marty

:goodpost I have learned so much already from what has been shared. I mean, I still can't get over that I did not already know that Harlan Teklad is not available over the counter at a pet store!

[mpetys]

Just popped in to look up some info and seen this thread. I actually just purchased our nr Riley some bird pellets that Lynnin had recommended for years, that her Sammy did so well with. (Her vet recommended them to her.) He's a very healthy guy. I have always used Mazuri and all the babies have done wonderfully on them using a recipie Chris Clark gave. Chris being one of the founding rehabbers of the board. Riley seems to love the pellets. Looking for some change for him.
---Harrison's Organic to be exact.

Is Harrison's Organic available at pet stores? Of course, me seeing the word Organic, I see $$$ so that may not be too workable for my budget!!! :jump

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

I had to order it online! I was hoping to find it in pet store but no luck. I think this was one deterrent why I didn't try it to begin with. I understand about the cost, I believe it was around 6$ a bag.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

My rehabber that I am licenced under has stopped feeding Mazuri and now feeds Beniful (sp?) dog food. :thinking

[UDoWhat]

My rehabber that I am licenced under has stopped feeding Mazuri and now feeds Beniful (sp?) dog food. :thinking
Oh here you guys are...:D
Interesting, I wonder?? I have heard of this before but wonder if there are any long term feeding results on this?? Meaning , how are those squirrels doing?? Fur development?? Weight gain?? Growth development , etc. I suppose there would only be visual glues as to health at this point, however. Interesting to follow. Let us know?? I myself just find peace of mind in feeding ( Block) that I have seen and experienced to "work" in my rehab squirrels. It is nice to see different choices being offered and discussed. :thankyou

Marty

[mpetys]

Michele, omg that poor pinky Danielle....did she survive? I would not be at all surprised if she didn't -- she is severely emaciated/dehydrated. If she did, all I can say is YOU need to do more pinkies. :thumbsup



IR, Danielle did make it. :Love_Icon She came to me with a brother, who unfortunately died within an hour of arriving. I was so bummed and scared. I mean, I knew there wasn't anything more I could have done for him. But I was so scared of losing Danielle too. I was expecting to lose her. I wondered if I was doing the right thing in taking her and not turning her over to someone more experienced. :shakehead

But she made it and as a matter of fact, she was one of the fourteen that were released this past Sunday. I got all teary eyed seeing her come out of the portal.

[mpetys]

Yes, I have a huge freezer downstairs, keep all my stuff (block, nuts--both in and out of shell, etc) in there. I take out one bag at a time, open it up, let it sit on the counter for a few hours, then pour into glass jars with lids, making sure any condensation has disapated. I keep a jar of each in my cabinets for feeding.

We should have a thread on just how we have rearranged and organized our lives for squirrels!

[CritterMom]

I just want to throw some information concerning bird food out there. When the term “bird food” is used in this context, it is Zupreem’s pelleted diet that is being referenced.

Like other animal foods, parrot diets can be divided into a couple camps – one that “looks” good and appears to be stuff they would like – a mix of nutritionally worthless seeds and corn and crap that is as bad for a bird as it is for a squirrel but “seems” intuitively right, and the pelleted diets that are the equivalent of our “blocks.” The popular seed stuff took quite a hit once people started to become more savvy about their parrots’ diet, and in self defense, they started adding “vitamins and minerals” which consisted almost literally of dumping vitamin powder in the bag and shaking it. Since Vitamin A is incredibly cheap, guess which vitamin it mostly consisted of?

But the pelleted diets tried to more closely hew to the actual needs of the animals. Do you know what is one of the most popular foods for larger parrots? Zupreem monkey biscuits – parrot people have been feeding them a lot longer than rehabbers have been using them. In fact you can sometimes purchase them at parrot sites for less than the rat and rehab sites sell them. They are popular because the nutrition in them is very close to what birds ACTUALLY need. Without resorting to industrial espionage, I doubt I could prove this, but I would not be surprised if the only difference between Zupreem monkey biscuits and Zupreme Avian Maintenance is the SIZE of the food pieces…

So like all rat foods are not the same, all “bird food” is not the same. I do know a little about this; my oldest parrot has been with me for 25 years, and like every other animal n my care, I have done a LOT of reading and research on how to keep them in optimal health.

[island rehabber]

But she made it and as a matter of fact, she was one of the fourteen that were released this past Sunday. I got all teary eyed seeing her come out of the portal.

:alright.gif excellent! good job!

[mpetys]

Ya know...its about time a thread such as this was opened.
I also feed Karens mix to my squirrels. Rocky and Rhoada have been on it for going on 2 years now and ( well...you guys have seen them)...they are very healthy.
The Reds are all on the mix but they will eat block too so they get both.

Whats sad is that its hard for me to say in open forum what I feed because it seems to create problems. Why I will never understand.
Will I change their diet??? No...I will not. I will give them what keeps them healthy and stick with that.
I do however change the mix up a bit for the different squirrels I have because I do believe there are nutritional differences according to species.
It seems most research done is for your common grey squirrel....and probably not real research at all. (hence why we base everything off of lab rats) . I will most likely never see a grey in my life.....so I have to do my own research and well experiment if you like to find what best suits my squirrels. Why would someone go through this much time and trouble....thats easy.....I LOVE SQUIRRELS. I owe it to them to give them what I feel is best and also to learn more about their needs.

This thread is exactly what TSB needs....a place where ALL of us can feel comfortable sharing what is working best for them. Understand that we do not all live in Florida and we do not all have grey squirrels. Climate and regional flora play a BIG part in determining what is healthy for our squirrels. I can't stress this enough. It would make for a very nice discussion.....:thumbsup

When you mentioned "Climate and regional flora" I thought of Rama Rota. I see what he eats and am amazed. But, I believe Stosh has commented on this, that what is available as a natural diet to the tri colored squirrels in Costa Rica is so very different than what is availabe to our squirrels. I believe he said theirs is a more fruit based diet. The same would be for different regions. Just look at Meemor with all his spruce cones and here I am pulling off the side of the road at a wooded area picking up fresh pine cones because we have no pine trees at all. Well, we do now. We just planted some! This would be an interesting discussion to see what the wild squirrels are eating in different areas of the country. What is available to them.

I try to watch what our wilds are eating but I hardly ever catch them eating. If we are out and they see us, they come to us for nuts! So, in a way, by "treating" them to nuts, I have made it hard to observe them. I do watch with great interest when we release squirrels, how they go about trying everything. I saw one discover bark for the first time. I have given them branches but this was pieces of bark that pulls off easily. He nibbled for a bit then moved on. So much of what they are picking up and trying is so small that if you are not right on top of them, you miss it.

[mpetys]

Hi, Michele, great thread. I would like to chime in here too. I feed a diet very similar to IR's'. My squirrels diet's consist of 80% rodent block. I use Mazuri, KayTee Forti diet, or ProLab 5P00/ RHM 3000 made by LabDiet. Here is the link to LabDiet: http://labdiet.com/pdf/5p00.pdf . I often use this because it is available in a 50# bag for $19.00. ( And less than 5 miles from my house). I offer different block on different days for variety. I don't often mix it together. I use Zupreem Primate Diet and my own recipe for Squirrel Block Cookies as treats and vegetables and fruits. I give in-shell nuts (2 each per squirrel) 1- 2 x per week. Usually 1 day per week I offer only rodent block and 1 other choice. On most days I offer 3-4 different veggies or fruits in the late morning after the block has been eaten some. I am pretty strict with my squirrels diets. Some of the veggies and fruits offered include, but are not limited to: apple, broccoli, dandelion greens, sugar snap peas, kale, green beans, zucchini, pumpkin, all kinds of squash, cranberries, blue berries, strawberries, watermelon, mushrooms, radicchio, sweet potato, corn, and more. And just for fun on High days and holidays, I offer block and in-shell nuts. They are so crazy on those few days.
I believe we all feed somewhat differently but it seems to work for a lot of squirrels at TSB.

Marty

Reading back over these posts I can say that I am learning a lot from everyone. I think we are pretty much in sync with the fruits and veggies, it is the "block" part that we all differ on. But I love your approach of how you mix it up.

I think I will be going back and making notes and will be adding a little of what everyone says to what I do as I "tweak" what I do.

Goodness, I am getting eleven six to nine months old tomorrow! They are going straight out to the release cage! Gotta start that garden; anybody know what I can plant in Florida at this time of the year!! :jump

[mpetys]

I just don't see where a grey squirrel would find crackers and Cheerios growing on trees in a natural setting :D.

I used to live behind a convenience store. The squirrels were always raiding the dumpsters. I guess to them that was their natural setting.! :jump

[dizzdigia]

Reading back over these posts I can say that I am learning a lot from everyone. I think we are pretty much in sync with the fruits and veggies, it is the "block" part that we all differ on. But I love your approach of how you mix it up.

I think I will be going back and making notes and will be adding a little of what everyone says to what I do as I "tweak" what I do.

Goodness, I am getting eleven six to nine months old tomorrow! They are going straight out to the release cage! Gotta start that garden; anybody know what I can plant in Florida at this time of the year!! :jump

This is what were supposed to be able to plant in our "favorable" weather...according to the Farmers Almanac!! :jump

DECEMBER 2011:
7th-8th Fine For Planting Beans, Peppers, Cucumbers, Melons And Other Aboveground Crops, Where Climate Is Suitable.
9th-10th Seeds Planted Now Tend To Rot In The Ground.
11th-12th Most Favorable Days For Planting Beets, Onions, Turnips And Other Root Crops, Where Climate Allows. Plant Seedbeds And Flower Gardens. Good Days For Transplanting.
13th-17th A Most Barren Period. Kill Plant Pests And Do General Farm Work.
18th-19th Favorable Days For Planting Root Crops, Fine For Sowing Grains, Hay, And Forage Crops. Plant Flowers.
20th-21st Plant Carrots, Beets, Onions, Turnips, Irish Potatoes And Other Root Crops, In The South. Lettuce, Cabbage, Collards, And Other Leafy Vegetables Will Do Well. Start Seedbeds. Good Days For Transplanting.
22nd-24th Do No Planting.
25th-26th Plant Sweet Corn, Beans, Peppers And Other Aboveground Crops, Where Climate Is Suitable.
27th-29th Good Days For Killing Weeds, Briars And Other Plant Pests, Poor For Planting.
30th-31st Plant Peppers, Sweet Corn, Tomatoes And Other Aboveground Crops, In Southern Florida, California, And Texas. Extra Good For Cucumbers, Peas, Cantaloupes, And Other Vine Crops

[mpetys]

Alrighty then, if sugar/carbs don't cause (Type II) diabetes I'll be damned if I know what does. Why do all these Americans living on gallons of sugary Coke & Pepsi now have it? But I'm certainly no scientist so I'll just walk away from this one; I'm just old, and observing what I've been seeing. My BF's sister gave me the same line last month as she spooned a mountain of white sugar into her coffee (she's Type II): "my doctor says it's FINE!" uh......ok...knock y'self out....:thinking :D

BOTTOM LINE: There is no final answer as to the perfect diet for captive squirrels. YOU choose what to feed, and YOU bear the consequences of your decision. :peace


Ok, here is what little I know about diabetes.

Two types, Type I and Type II

My nephew is a Type I diabetic having been diagnosed at the age of 12. His pancreas produces little or no insulin, a hormone which is produced by beta cells. Insulin is necessary as it is what moves glucose (blood sugar) into cells where it is stored and used later by our body for energy.

No known cause for Type I Diabetes. Believe to be an autoimmune disorder and if a child has it, the fear is that the other siblings have a greater chance of being diagnosed with it.

Type I diabetics are supposed to watch their diet and eat a healty diet to not trigger any low blood sugar or high blood sugar episodes. Many, though, do not because they administer insulin and rely on the insulin to clean up problems from bad eating choices. Glucose too high - take more insuin. Now that they have the insulin pumps, it is all automatic and I think it makes it easier for them to eat anything they want which I don't think was the idea.

If you have type 1 diabetes, it is important to know how many carbohydrates you eat at a meal. This information helps you determine how much insulin you should take with your meal to maintain blood sugar (glucose) control.

The other two major nutrients, protein and fat ,also have an effect on blood glucose levels, though it is not as rapid or great as carbohydrates.

A delicate balance of carbohydrate intake, insulin, and physical activity is necessary for the best blood sugar (glucose) levels. Eating carbohydrates increases your blood sugar (glucose) level. Exercise tends to decrease it (although not always). If the three factors are not in balance, you can have wide swings in blood sugar (glucose) levels.

If you have type 1 diabetes and take a fixed dose of insulin, the carbohydrate content of your meals and snacks should be consistent from day to day.



TYPE II Diabetics are those whose body does not make enough insulin or does not properly use the insulin it does make. With type II diabetes, your liver, fat, and muscle cells do not respond correctly to insulin. This is called insulin resistance. As a result, blood sugar does not get into these cells to be stored for energy which we all need. When sugar cannot enter cells, high levels of sugar build up in the blood. This is called hyperglycemia.

Type 2 diabetes usually occurs slowly over time. Most people with the disease are overweight when they are diagnosed. Increased fat makes it harder for your body to use insulin the correct way. It can also occur in thin people, usually the elderly. Low activity level, poor diet, and excess body weight around the waist increase your risk

I am a Type II diabetic. I do not take insulin or any of the medications for Type II diabetes. I am currently regulating by diet. I have been lucky as I have been doing a poor job of it. I was taught to avoid certain carbs such as what I call the "white" carbs", white bread, sugar, flour, rice, potatoes. When I eat any of these, I can feel my blood sugar rising.

If you have type 2 diabetes, your main focus is often on weight control. Most people with this disease are overweight. Use a diet that has fewer calories, an even amount of carbohydrates (30 - 45 grams per meal.), healthy monounsaturated fats such as peanut or almond butter, almonds, and walnuts. You can substitute these foods for carbohydrates, but keep portions small because these foods are high in calories.

Type 2 diabetes can be kept under control by losing weight in some cases and increasing physical activity (for example, 30 minutes of walking per day). In addition to making lifestyle changes, some people will need to take pills or insulin injections to control their blood sugar. Many overweight people who are type II diabetic see this condition completely go away when they have the gastric bypass surgery or the lap band surgery.

When my nephew was diagnosed in the 1980's that was before they really came out with the whole thing about Carbs and how they affect diabetics. I remember my nephew coming to visit after I was diagnosed and had gone through the diabetes training classes. We were at the mall and he was going crazy because there was a candy store that had tons of SUGAR FREE CANDIES. But they were full of carbs. I tried to explain to him that these were not good for him but I don't think he believed me. He was probably 19 at the time. I called his mom and told her she needs to get his doctor to prescribe an updated session with the diabetes training classes as things had changed since he was first diagnosed at 12 years of age.

Hope this wasn't too boring. Heck, things may have changed since I went to my diabetes training classes.

This is a topic I have a lot of confusion on. Just how prevalent is diabetes in squirrels? In a recent thread where the squirrel was suspected of having a relapse of MBD, one of the symptoms was excessive thirst. Since the original poster was in Florida and did not have a vet, I suggested a vet visit to rule out diabetes but was told that diabetes is pretty rare in squirrels.

So, I am confused. I would love a separate thread just on diabetes and a discussion from those that know, of any TSB squirrels that were diabetic. Would love to know what their diet was before hand and what was changed and how the squirrels made out.


Re: diabetes. It's a pretty rare diagnosis in a squirrel. Plus, weight loss is a symptom of Type I and I'm not aware of any cases in a squirrel. With Type II, the squirrels have tended to be plump, just as in cases of Type II in humans. The loss of appetite you see with MBD can definitely cause some weight loss.

[mpetys]

I just want to throw some information concerning bird food out there. When the term “bird food” is used in this context, it is Zupreem’s pelleted diet that is being referenced.

Like other animal foods, parrot diets can be divided into a couple camps – one that “looks” good and appears to be stuff they would like – a mix of nutritionally worthless seeds and corn and crap that is as bad for a bird as it is for a squirrel but “seems” intuitively right, and the pelleted diets that are the equivalent of our “blocks.” The popular seed stuff took quite a hit once people started to become more savvy about their parrots’ diet, and in self defense, they started adding “vitamins and minerals” which consisted almost literally of dumping vitamin powder in the bag and shaking it. Since Vitamin A is incredibly cheap, guess which vitamin it mostly consisted of?

But the pelleted diets tried to more closely hew to the actual needs of the animals. Do you know what is one of the most popular foods for larger parrots? Zupreem monkey biscuits – parrot people have been feeding them a lot longer than rehabbers have been using them. In fact you can sometimes purchase them at parrot sites for less than the rat and rehab sites sell them. They are popular because the nutrition in them is very close to what birds ACTUALLY need. Without resorting to industrial espionage, I doubt I could prove this, but I would not be surprised if the only difference between Zupreem monkey biscuits and Zupreme Avian Maintenance is the SIZE of the food pieces…

So like all rat foods are not the same, all “bird food” is not the same. I do know a little about this; my oldest parrot has been with me for 25 years, and like every other animal n my care, I have done a LOT of reading and research on how to keep them in optimal health.

I think that might be part of the misperception is when we refer to it as bird food instead of a pelleted bird diet. To me, when I see the pellets and compare them to the Monkey Biscuits, I can't help but think of them as tiny rodent blocks with different shapes, colors and flavors!

The Zupreem lady I spoke with did mention that bird people were using their monkey biscuits to make a mush to successfully feed to baby birds.

[Pierre]

I'm curious as well as where the 330 mg was derived from.

4skwerlz: I looked, as you said, in back posts and searched, but I cannot find the 330mg Ca info.

Could you explain where the 330mg comes from or post the link to the thread that does? Thx.

[momma2boo]

4skwerlz: I looked, as you said, in back posts and searched, but I cannot find the 330mg Ca info.

Could you explain where the 330mg comes from or post the link to the thread that does? Thx.

Maybe Leigh is making/cooking dinner. I too cannot figure out the 330 mg Ca so I would love for it to be explained. I gave up trying to figure it out and didn't bother to ask out of fear of opening up a can of worms, but since you brought it up ... :poke :sanp3 :rotfl

[Sissy]

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

Now girls, You know you have repeatedly asked this question time and time again and I have also. I don't know the answer to the "million" dollar question but I will give it my best shot. Here's what I'm thinking, and someone please correct me if I am incorrect. :thankyou

If I understand it correctly 4s is assuming that a squirrel eats four pounds of rodent block per month, there fore she took the NRLA recommendations of 5000 mg/kg and figured it so that the squirrel would be eating 10000 mg/lb, since they eat their weight in food each month.

So that being said, I think she took that 10000 and divide it by 30 you get 333 mg/day of calcium. Which looks to me, now I'm not a professional by any means, that it would be rounded off to 330 mg.

:dono :dono :dono :dono

I hope this helps some. :poke :poke

[lilidukes]

Maybe Leigh is making/cooking dinner. I too cannot figure out the 330 mg Ca so I would love for it to be explained. I gave up trying to figure it out and didn't bother to ask out of fear of opening up a can of worms, but since you brought it up ... :poke :sanp3 :rotfl

what numbers did/do you base your boo balls on??? since you brought it up???:poke :poke :poke

[momma2boo]

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

Now girls, You know you have repeatedly asked this question time and time again and I have also. I don't know the answer to the "million" dollar question but I will give it my best shot. Here's what I'm thinking, and someone please correct me if I am incorrect. :thankyou

If I understand it correctly 4s is assuming that a squirrel eats four pounds of rodent block per month, there fore she took the NRLA recommendations of 5000 mg/kg and figured it so that the squirrel would be eating 10000 mg/lb, since they eat their weight in food each month.

So that being said, I think she took that 10000 and divide it by 30 you get 333 mg/day of calcium. Which looks to me, now I'm not a professional by any means, that it would be rounded off to 330 mg.

:dono :dono :dono :dono

I hope this helps some. :poke :poke

The NRLA recommendations are 5g/kg, which comes out to 75 mg/day. So if a squirrel eats 15 grams per day (which is normal) then it comes to 75 mg/day for calcium. I am looking for the information to back this up ... I am almost certain that is what I had read.

Hang tight ... I'll find it and be back to post it.

[Sissy]

The NRLA recommendations are 5g/kg, which comes out to 75 mg/day. So if a squirrel eats 15 grams per day (which is normal) then it comes to 75 mg/day for calcium. I am looking for the information to back this up ... I am almost certain that is what I had read.

Hang tight ... I'll find it and be back to post it.


Yes that would be great to see a link or something to this info. :peace

[momma2boo]

what numbers did/do you base your boo balls on??? since you brought it up???:poke :poke :poke

First ... I didn't bring up the Boo Balls ... you did. Now that we have that little morsel cleared up the rest of us can get back to our discussion.

Here is where I got my information for nutritional requirements. I hope this helps.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4758&page=13

[mpetys]

Funny thing, after starting this discussion thread, I get a call from a rehabber that has 11 squirrels for me to overwinter and release (if you build it they will come!). They are arriving tomorrow! She asked if I wanted her to bring their food. I said sure, it should help with transitioning them to what I feed everyone else. I asked her what she was feeding and she said the Mazuri Ovals. I had not heard that term or name before. She gets it from a feed store right off the shelf, $21 for 50 pounds. Must be the same that crittermom was talking about. I'm guessing they must be oval shaped.

[UDoWhat]

Funny thing, after starting this discussion thread, I get a call from a rehabber that has 11 squirrels for me to overwinter and release (if you build it they will come!). They are arriving tomorrow! She asked if I wanted her to bring their food. I said sure, it should help with transitioning them to what I feed everyone else. I asked her what she was feeding and she said the Mazuri Ovals. I had not heard that term or name before. She gets it from a feed store right off the shelf, $21 for 50 pounds. Must be the same that crittermom was talking about. I'm guessing they must be oval shaped.

It sounds right. I have heard rehabbers around here also call it "ovals". :D Actually my squirrels like this kind of "ovals" best.:rotfl

Marty

[mpetys]

Ok, here is a question regarding veggies. Does everyone make their veggie plates or salads to order, that is, as you need them for each meal for each squirrel or does anyone chop veggies ahead of time? I waste so much time every day that I started cutting veggies ahead of time. The only ones I have a problem with is cucumbers don't hold up to well and apples browning.

I have bought salad bowls like restaurants use from restaurant depot and have started putting together a salad in each bowl that feeds three squirrels. This way I can have several days done ahead of time and my husband knows that if he is feeding the release cage squirrels, they get one salad bowl for each nestbox! I have several inside squirrels that are housed three per cage so it works for them as well. Any other shortcuts?

[jo_schmoe]

This discussion started out as a "What do rehabbers feed?" thread. But in the midst of it, statements were made challenging the basis of the Healthy Diet recommended by TSB. These issues deserve to be addressed.

I leave it up to Admin to decide whether that discussion should broken out into a separate thread.

:peace
You're right....the question was what do rehabbers feed and I answered what I feed. Its that simple.....At no time did I say anything negative or even close to the sort about HHBS or anyone elses diet nor would I. The only negativity was from ones that have some silly grudge against the rehabber I got the recipe from...ignoring the fact that this diet was approved by the same guy who I was told helped with Healthy Blocks...that's gotta say something right???

If anyone is interested in the diet I and some others use...just ask.
I am happy to share it with you. :peace

[mpetys]

It sounds right. I have heard rehabbers around here also call it "ovals". :D Actually my squirrels like this kind of "ovals" best.:rotfl

Marty

Well these since these guys are 6 to 9 months old, I will keep them on it as their base. I'm excited. We haven't had time to close up two of the release units and I really hate to but feel better about my new releases as even though some still come back to release cage to eat, they don't necessarily go to their unit but to the next one over. Reminds me of a college dorm. Open door policy!

I already know what I am getting for Christmas! Two more rooms on the release cage!

[Pierre]

I'm not sure what the lettuce part means, but the NRLA requirements say 75 mg of Calcium a day.

Harlan Teklad states that their blocks are to be fed at about 20g per day to meet all necessary nutritional requirements.

Rat blocks are a concentrated food, not something like lettuce with almost no nutritional value.

[jo_schmoe]

When you mentioned "Climate and regional flora" I thought of Rama Rota. I see what he eats and am amazed. But, I believe Stosh has commented on this, that what is available as a natural diet to the tri colored squirrels in Costa Rica is so very different than what is availabe to our squirrels. I believe he said theirs is a more fruit based diet. The same would be for different regions. Just look at Meemor with all his spruce cones and here I am pulling off the side of the road at a wooded area picking up fresh pine cones because we have no pine trees at all. Well, we do now. We just planted some! This would be an interesting discussion to see what the wild squirrels are eating in different areas of the country. What is available to them.

I try to watch what our wilds are eating but I hardly ever catch them eating. If we are out and they see us, they come to us for nuts! So, in a way, by "treating" them to nuts, I have made it hard to observe them. I do watch with great interest when we release squirrels, how they go about trying everything. I saw one discover bark for the first time. I have given them branches but this was pieces of bark that pulls off easily. He nibbled for a bit then moved on. So much of what they are picking up and trying is so small that if you are not right on top of them, you miss it.
Exactly Michelle....exactly!
Not only does diet change as per region...but also as per species.
I couldn't possibly feed the exact same things in the same quantities to Red squirrels as I do Fox squirrels....their natural diet is so different.

[dizzdigia]

There were no "negative" comments made in this thread about Karen's diet, at least by me. None. You and Dizzy are quite simply stating something that isn't true.

Seriously? What exactly are we stating that isnt true here?

[Sissy]

I'm not sure what the lettuce part means, but the NRLA requirements say 75 mg of Calcium a day.

Harlan Teklad states that their blocks are to be fed at about 20g per day to meet all necessary nutritional requirements.

Rat blocks are a concentrated food, not something like lettuce with almost no nutritional value.

Thank you for clearing that up Pierre! I was about to break the kitchen scales out. :thumbsup

[mpetys]

Exactly Michelle....exactly!
Not only does diet change as per region...but also as per species.
I couldn't possibly feed the exact same things in the same quantities to Red squirrels as I do Fox squirrels....their natural diet is so different.

We should have a squirrel exchange program. Let me send you some grays and you cans send me some reds and foxes! I'm just kidding everyone! :jump

[DaddyMan]

There is no disrespect in this post. I simply think there are some misconceptions. Think this through, the things a squirrel eats in the wild are NOT concentrated, nutrionally dense or complete foods and therefore they would need to be eaten in great quantities to get all the nutrients required. The same would not be true with a complete diet. So, 15g of food in the wild would certainly not be enough since it is not as concentrated as say an HT block.

[Pierre]

Well, it's time-consuming to continually debunk these sorts of claims over and over, but here goes.

The NRLA requirements do not "say 75 mg of ca per day." They give a "per kg/diet" amount, and if you do the math to convert this into a daily requirement for a RAT, which indeed eats around 15 g of food per day, then you end up with 75 mg ca. If you think a squirrel eats 15 g of food per day, you have either never kept a squirrel, or have never learned that a squirrel eats around their own bodyweight in food per week, or actually weighed the food that an actual squirrel eats per day.

Harlan Teklad should be fed at around 20 g per day for a RAT, because that is how much food a RAT eats per day. A squirrel does not eat 20 g (or 15 g) of food per day. A squirrel could not survive on 15 g of food per day.

Your last sentence appears to be meaningless. It does not matter whether you weigh up a lightweight food, or a heavy concentrated food: a squirrel could not survive on 15 g per day of any food.

I don't expect an answer to this post. You come to this board and throw rocks at something you don't even understand, or care to apparently. And when the rocks don't hit their mark, you go away.

It doesn't matter what a squirrel eats in the wild with regard to the foods' weight! We are feeding them a diet that is not their wild diet! We feed more concentrated foods [as are HHBs]. Lab rats are not fed what a wild rat would eat. Neither is a horse in a barn fed what a wild mustang eats.

It is the nutrients in the amount of food a day that matters, not is weight in grams or pounds. A rat couldn't live on 15 g of lettuce. Certainly can live on 15 g of block.

[Administration]

Next member to write anything less than respectful of another member should be prepared for a timeout. No one has to agree on a diet, and not everyone has to like each other here. What does need to happen is that adults post from this point onward.

[Sissy]

Well, how would you characterize this discussion?


I would say it is getting way to tense for the original purpose of this thread. We are all here to learn something. I found this verse the other day and it really made me sit back and think. I always try to read and keep an open mind to everything.

Proverbs 12:1 Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge,
But he who hates correction is stupid.

[SammysMom]

Hey Admin...:goodpost :goodpost :goodpost :goodpost :goodpost

[jo_schmoe]

We should have a squirrel exchange program. Let me send you some grays and you cans send me some reds and foxes! I'm just kidding everyone! :jump
Please dont be kidding...PLEASE!!!! LOL
Your poor little greys would freeze their bums off being here....and I doubt my guys would ever want to come back from the land of the sun where you live.....:D
Im curious to know from others that have rehabbed Reds if they fed more nuts to them. I noticed when I wasn't giving them at least a nut a day...they became thin. They each get 2 nuts a day now....and their weights look great.
Foxers are still at one nut every other day....or they get way fat.

[christine126]

I posted a question under The Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels. I think I should have posted it under this thread. Would it be bad to repost it?:thinking

[Sissy]

Please dont be kidding...PLEASE!!!! LOL
Your poor little greys would freeze their bums off being here....and I doubt my guys would ever want to come back from the land of the sun where you live.....:D
Im curious to know from others that have rehabbed Reds if they fed more nuts to them. I noticed when I wasn't giving them at least a nut a day...they became thin. They each get 2 nuts a day now....and their weights look great.
Foxers are still at one nut every other day....or they get way fat.


:rotfl Foxers always look chunky. Least mine do anyway. Love the chunky monkey's

[dizzdigia]

I posted a question under The Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels. I think I should have posted it under this thread. Would it be bad to repost it?:thinking

No it wouldnt be bad Christine! Go for it! :D

[DaddyMan]

You have a captive audience, Christine.

[DaddyMan]

Animals will eat more food than is required if their food is lacking nutrients. The lower the concentration of nutrients the more they will need to consume. As higher levels of nutrients are consumed the animal reduces the overal consumption.

As an example, a dog is fed a high end dog food. This gives way to less consumption and less excremental waste. Whereas a low grade food with "filler" will require twice the normal amount consumed, if not more, for the dog to acquire the same amount of nutrients.

This is an autonomic regulatory system in all animals for survival.

[mpetys]

Animals will eat more food than is required if their food is lacking nutrients. The lower the concentration of nutrients the more they will need to consume. As higher levels of nutrients are consumed the animal reduces the overal consumption.

As an example, a dog is fed a high end dog food. This gives way to less consumption and less excremental waste. Whereas a low grade food with "filler" will require twice the normal amount consumed, if not more, for the dog to acquire the same amount of nutrients.

This is an autonomic regulatory system in all animals for survival.

I know this to be true, especially if you have 120 lb. rottweilers. More in = more out. Less in = less out. Makes the higher cost of better foods not so bad! :jump

[astra]

So are u saying that they eat to much?
I might be wrong, but I think DaddyMan might be referring to the ongoing discussion on the diet, not so much to your particular post.
Although, I might be wrong, but I am sure DaddyMan will clarify that.

It does not sound like your guys eat too much, to me.
Squirrels are good at self-regulating. Of course, there are squirrels who would eat more than others, but overall, they know what and how much they need to eat.
If someone gets a bit too chubby, you just adjust their diet and add more exercise and the weight usually goes back to normal.

[Sissy]

That is very true. Is there some specific knowledge or "correction" you'd like to offer regarding diet?

I'm just looking, learning and listening. I love that quote because it keeps me humble. :peace

[dizzdigia]

Is my squirrels diet healthy? I have been reading back and forth on the squirrel diet debate. And now I have gone from confident that their diet is healthy to just plain confused. So I am going to just put thier diet out there and anyone who wants to tell me what or how I could modify it to improve it would be appreciated.
After rehydrating with warm Pedialyte, and warming them up. These babies started out on formula of warm goats milk and water (50-50)
this was temporary till I got them to the rehabber.
The rehabber told me to put them on Esbilac 50%and goats milk 25% and water 25%.
When they started getting active, I put rodent blocks and acorns in their cage so they could snack on them in between feedings. Which they eventually did. Also fresh cut tree branches and dandelion leaves from the yard. I also gave them a half a pecan after each feeding to bribe them to not run everywhere while I was feeding their siblings.
Soon I was putting a full dog dish of different veggies, sweet potato, brocolli, cauliflower, and orange slices everyday as staples. Also a handful of rodent blocks .Then any other veggie I had around just to see if they like it. Also I put flowers and other vegetation out of the yard in there. Sometimes I even find fresh mushrooms growing in the morning . They really like those. I put another full dog dish of just acorns as well. Before they were weaned at 14 weeks (they weaned themselves one by one), there would be food left over at the end of the day, but now they eat it all. They eat the rodent block last. But I won't give them more food until they eat it. Sometimes they finish it before the end of the day and I will give them more veggies or pick them some flowers. ALL of their fruit and veggies are sprinkled with calcium powder. They have been getting daily sunlight since 6 weeks. This amount of food is for 3 squirrels..OK folks I am open to suggestions.:bowdown mjs

Certain wild mushrooms are poisonous and possibly deadly, and unless you're a mycologist, it's very hard to identify which are safe and which are not. Even the store bought ones can make our guys sick if the gills arent washed our really well so I personally wouldnt give them the wild ones. Also, careful for pesticides/chemicals...I HATE bugs so I know nothing in my yard is safe for my guys to eat! :jump

[mpetys]

So are u saying that they eat to much?

Christine, I don't think his post was directed at your question. I agree with Astra, unless you know your mushrooms, I would not pick outside mushrooms for your squirrels. Same thing with plants. I always go by the safe plant list on TSB or if it is not on the list, I ask for everyone's opinion. And no flowers from the florist or grocery store or even a neighbors yard unless you know for certain and trust that they know for certain that their yard has not been treated with pesticides.

We have started to plant things just for the squirrels. I have 5 hibiscus that were planted just for the flowers, my husband is now growing blueberries (we'll see how that works out!), and we have just bought two avocado trees and two apple trees.

It is better to be safe than to be sorry.

[DaddyMan]

So are u saying that they eat to much?

Hi Christine

No, they're not "eating too much", they're eating what's necessary to acquire the needed nutrients. The less nutritionally dense food the more they would need to eat. Therefore by feeding nutrionally better foods they will eat less

Think of it this way. You want one dollar in coins. Your choices are pennies, nickles, dimes, and quarters. Which of these would you need less of to equal that one dollar? 100 pennies? 20 nickles? 10 dimes? or 4 quarters? You need less coins if the coin is of higher value.

[Sissy]

Hi Christine

No, they're not "eating too much", they're eating what's necessary to acquire the needed nutrients. The less nutritionally dense food the more they would need to eat. Therefore by feeding nutrionally better foods they will eat less

Think of it this way. You want one dollar in coins. Your choices are pennies, nickles, dimes, and quarters. Which of these would you need less of to equal that one dollar? 100 pennies? 20 nickles? 10 dimes? or 4 quarters? You need less coins if the coin is of higher value.

:goodpost

[Pierre]

This is true, but doesn't answer the question of how much food a squirrel eats per day. I hope you will perform the experiment of weighing various types and combinations of foods, and judge for yourself whether it's sufficient for a squirrel's daily diet.


Are you saying that you have to weigh the foods to determine what you feed them?

[jo_schmoe]

Christine...its sounds like you are feeding the right things....and I assume this is a Grey by your location....
The only question I have is did you say you give them a bowl of nuts??
Might wanna back off on those a bit. Keep in mind....in the wild they would have nuts for maybe 2-4 weeks out of the entire year.
Another thing I found helpful was when it comes time to feed in the morning....my guys get NOTHING but their mix or block...and veggies and fruit are given later in the day. It takes a bit to get them used to this routine....but it works if you stick to it. You will find that they will eat the good stuff first....(cuz there isn't anything else).
Hope this helps. :peace

[DaddyMan]

This is true, but doesn't answer the question of how much food a squirrel eats per day. I hope you will perform the experiment of weighing various types and combinations of foods, and judge for yourself whether it's sufficient for a squirrel's daily diet.

It has nothing to do with volume (quantity) but rather the nutrional content (quality). An animal can eat their body weight in celery and yet still die. Why is that if they are eating so much? They will die because of lack of nutrition. Plain and simple. It's not the quantity, it's the quality.

[mpetys]

Hi Christine

No, they're not "eating too much", they're eating what's necessary to acquire the needed nutrients. The less nutritionally dense food the more they would need to eat. Therefore by feeding nutrionally better foods they will eat less

Think of it this way. You want one dollar in coins. Your choices are pennies, nickles, dimes, and quarters. Which of these would you need less of to equal that one dollar? 100 pennies? 20 nickles? 10 dimes? or 4 quarters? You need less coins if the coin is of higher value.

:fireworks Great analogy. I was looking for a light bulb icon but didn't see one so fireworks it is!

[christine126]

im still not getting any real answers . I asked for suggestions. I mean don't tell me that its not right without telling me what isnt right or what needs to be changed without answering the questions. Your criticism is to vague to help me.

[Sissy]

im still not getting any real answers . I asked for suggestions. I mean don't tell me that its not right without telling me what isnt right or what needs to be changed without answering the questions. Your criticism is to vague to help me.

No dear, I think you are in the middle of a discussion that isn't about your question. I think diet sounds good. There is a safe food/plant/tree list somewhere on here. I've been trying to locate it for you. It will give you a great idea of what kind of veggies/fruits etc you can feed your squirrel.

[christine126]

Christine...its sounds like you are feeding the right things....and I assume this is a Grey by your location....
The only question I have is did you say you give them a bowl of nuts??
Might wanna back off on those a bit. Keep in mind....in the wild they would have nuts for maybe 2-4 weeks out of the entire year.
Another thing I found helpful was when it comes time to feed in the morning....my guys get NOTHING but their mix or block...and veggies and fruit are given later in the day. It takes a bit to get them used to this routine....but it works if you stick to it. You will find that they will eat the good stuff first....(cuz there isn't anything else).
Hope this helps. :peace

Thank you Jo that was a helpful suggestion. Just what I was looking for. They really only get acorns a couple weeks a year?!

[astra]

im still not getting any real answers . I asked for suggestions. I mean don't tell me that its not right without telling me what isnt right or what needs to be changed without answering the questions. Your criticism is to vague to help me.
Christine,

you might be confusing the ongoing discussion about healthy diet in general with your question (that's why it's best to post questions separately).

People did address your diet specifically, if you trace posts one by one, you will see. Some people made specific suggestions (e.g, jo_shmoe about nuts, Sissy and I about wild mushrooms and plants, mpetys - about plants, too, and about the priority of the block in the morning before other things)

[christine126]

No dear, I think you are in the middle of a discussion that isn't about your question. I think diet sounds good. There is a safe food/plant/tree list somewhere on here. I've been trying to locate it for you. It will give you a great idea of what kind of veggies/fruits etc you can feed your squirrel.


no I was speaking of the ones directed to me

[Sissy]

no I was speaking of the ones directed to me

I think I found a thread that might help you. Sounds to me like you squirrel is being fed very well.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31919

Scroll down thru the post and you will see a list of good/fair/ok foods.

[DaddyMan]

Christine,

My discussion about quantity vs quality was not directed toward you. I did answer you when I thought you were questioning if what I meant was that they were eating too much. I assumed you meant the animals I was referring to in my example.

I must be honest, I hadn't even looked at what you are feeding your squirrel.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

[jo_schmoe]

Thank you Jo that was a helpful suggestion. Just what I was looking for. They really only get acorns a couple weeks a year?!
Yeah...they really do. Now they will gather and stash some....for later use....but the acorns are only around for a very short time.

I can't show your post to my squirrels....they'd be packing up and moving where the nuts are!!! LOL

[mpetys]

Yeah...they really do. Now they will gather and stash some....for later use....but the acorns are only around for a very short time.

I can't show your post to my squirrels....they'd be packing up and moving where the nuts are!!! LOL

After I ordered hickory nuts from a member last year, I found out that we have hickory nut trees here in florida. So now I have two places that lets me come get all I want!

[DaddyMan]

This is obviously true. But we are talking about an average squirrel consuming 15 g of food per day. I hope you did the weighing experiment.

This is going in circles a bit, so I will simply ask: On what basis would you say that the average squirrel consumes 15 g of food per day?

8 Acorns
11 Almonds
3.5 Harlan Teklad blocks

All three of the aforementioned foods weigh 15 g. If a squirrel was to receive all the necessary nutrients required to sustain life in a concentrated food they would not need to eat more.

Based on my own experience my squirrels stop eating when they have received their necessary requirements. I don't believe I have ever seen them eat their body weight in food, but I have thrown away their body weight in foods after they have eaten their blocks. Instinctually their bodies will recognize when they are nutritionally satisfied. Anything they eat after that will be stored for future use, as fat.

I personally feel more comfortable giving them 20g of block a day. I was simply using the number that had already been posted for my analogy.

It's late and I'm tired. Good night.

[island rehabber]

Gee. Guess we cleared THAT up.......:thinking..........:dono.....:shakehead

Somehow I don't think this is what mpetys wanted to know when she asked what the rehabbers feed their squirrels. Why am I not surprised that it turned into a mess?

Because it always does.

A decision will be made on this thread sometime in the next 12 hours.

[Pierre]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking.

The amount of food eaten per day (by weight) by an average individual of a given species is a fundamental principle used when calculating animal diets.

I am asking if you think that the weight of food eaten per day determines its nutritional value. ??

It matters none if a wild squirrel eats 1 pound of wild foods in a week. What matters is what nutrition is in that pound of food.


Rat blocks provide a concentrated nutrition in a small block. Wild foods contain lots of things that weigh something, but cannot be digested. Mast. Cellulose, shells, etc.

The weight of the food is meaningless. It's content is all that matters.

I'm off to bed too. ...

[2ndHandRanchRescue]

Hey there. Plain & simple - what ever I can afford out here in the boon-docks. I usually overwinter 5-10+ squirrels each winter - not too many and I don't have the experience of y'all. but here it is.
Mazuri (what ever my feed store is willing to get for me) 25# bags
Salad every morning - free choice rodent block, and as a treat - some bunny food. I toss in some alfalfa from the horses.
Each evening they get some Boo-Balls as treats -and maybe a nut or 2.
My rehabber friend (who mentored me) who has rehabbed squirrels for 30 year ONLY does the monkey biscuits. In fact I'm taking 4 of hers for the winter and she is making me promise to feed monkey biscuits. So I guess like feeding horses there are many good ways. My NRs get the same and so far 3-4 years my guys are doing great. Their salad always changes too. What ever I can get at my Aldis.

[mpetys]

Hey there. Plain & simple - what ever I can afford out here in the boon-docks. I usually overwinter 5-10+ squirrels each winter - not too many and I don't have the experience of y'all. but here it is.
Mazuri (what ever my feed store is willing to get for me) 25# bags
Salad every morning - free choice rodent block, and as a treat - some bunny food. I toss in some alfalfa from the horses.
Each evening they get some Boo-Balls as treats -and maybe a nut or 2.
My rehabber friend (who mentored me) who has rehabbed squirrels for 30 year ONLY does the monkey biscuits. In fact I'm taking 4 of hers for the winter and she is making me promise to feed monkey biscuits. So I guess like feeding horses there are many good ways. My NRs get the same and so far 3-4 years my guys are doing great. Their salad always changes too. What ever I can get at my Aldis.

Thanks for posting 2HRR. I am getting 11 squirrels in tomorrow to overwinter and release for another rehabber. They are 6 - 9 months old. They eat the Mazuri oval block ($21 for 50 lbs) with some veggies several times a week. At first I was going to transition them over to what I feed, but if they look good, I will just continue with what they have been eating but increase the veggies and natural stuff.

When I get my garden going, mine will get what I am have in season at the time!

[2ndHandRanchRescue]

oh yes, and I do feed HHBs too - its all good. (I may not have the cash to buy but nice folks donate) Just like feeding my dogs, variety is the spice of life!!

[mpetys]

Gee. Guess we cleared THAT up.......:thinking..........:dono.....:shakehead

Somehow I don't think this is what mpetys wanted to know when she asked what the rehabbers feed their squirrels. Why am I not surprised that it turned into a mess?

Because it always does.

A decision will be made on this thread sometime in the next 12 hours.


I certainly hope you are not planning on closing this thread. I, for one, have learned so much already from others.

50 pounds of block for $21!! I am paying something like $7 at Petsmart for 2 or 3 pounds of the Mazuri blocks!

Harlan Teklad is not sold to the general public. I didn't know that.

I know you started the other thread to move the discussion of the Healthy diet requirements in regards to calcium but I don't remember seeing a post here telling people that it had been moved. I may be wrong on that but I didn't see anything.

So sometime after 6pm there was a post by Pierre who was responding to 4skwerls earlier suggestion that she use the SEARCH function of the Squirrel Board to find some information. Several other members posted questions or comments in regards to Pierre's post. Then around 8:45pm, 4skwerls posted a reply to a member on this thread when perhps she should have informed the member that a new thread had been started for the purpose of discussing the Healthy Diet and moved the discussion there. As it was, there was an ongoing discussion, back and forth by several members and 4skwerls, at one point she asked someone to do some kind of experiment weighing foods.

I will say that there was nothing there that bothered me. I didn't understand it all but perhaps, it should have just been taken to the other thread. Once people know that thread is there, I am sure they will post their questions there. And if they do post here for 4skwerls, perhaps instead of entertaining them here, she could tell them that she will answer their questions on that other thread.

I do feel that the discussion on the basis for the healthy diet is pertinent to the intent of this thread. I want to feed a healthy diet. I am coming away so far with we should all be okay with different methods of reaching that goal. I mean, I am getting 11 squirrels in tomorrow who are fed a diet of Mazuri blocks with some vegetables a couple times a week. That is so far away from what I am doing or even what I used to do before I started getting so many. But I am okay with it as long as the squirrels are healthy. If they are healthy, I will keep them on the food they come with, but add fresh veggies and wild foods on a daily basis as that is what I do.

As far as the pellets I currently am feeding, I think Crittermom may have hit the nail on the head when she said,


Without resorting to industrial espionage, I doubt I could prove this, but I would not be surprised if the only difference between Zupreem monkey biscuits and Zupreme Avian Maintenance is the SIZE of the food pieces…


So, my vote is for this thread staying open!

[astra]

I certainly hope you are not planning on closing this thread. I, for one, have learned so much already from others.

50 pounds of block for $21!! I am paying something like $7 at Petsmart for 2 or 3 pounds of the Mazuri blocks!

Harlan Teklad is not sold to the general public. I didn't know that.

I know you started the other thread to move the discussion of the Healthy diet requirements in regards to calcium but I don't remember seeing a post here telling people that it had been moved. I may be wrong on that but I didn't see anything.

So sometime after 6pm there was a post by Pierre who was responding to 4skwerls earlier suggestion that she use the SEARCH function of the Squirrel Board to find some information. Several other members posted questions or comments in regards to Pierre's post. Then around 8:45pm, 4skwerls posted a reply to a member on this thread when perhps she should have informed the member that a new thread had been started for the purpose of discussing the Healthy Diet and moved the discussion there. As it was, there was an ongoing discussion, back and forth by several members and 4skwerls, at one point she asked someone to do some kind of experiment weighing foods.

I will say that there was nothing there that bothered me. I didn't understand it all but perhaps, it should have just been taken to the other thread. Once people know that thread is there, I am sure they will post their questions there. And if they do post here for 4skwerls, perhaps instead of entertaining them here, she could tell them that she will answer their questions on that other thread.

I do feel that the discussion on the basis for the healthy diet is pertinent to the intent of this thread. I want to feed a healthy diet. I am coming away so far with we should all be okay with different methods of reaching that goal. I mean, I am getting 11 squirrels in tomorrow who are fed a diet of Mazuri blocks with some vegetables a couple times a week. That is so far away from what I am doing or even what I used to do before I started getting so many. But I am okay with it as long as the squirrels are healthy. If they are healthy, I will keep them on the food they come with, but add fresh veggies and wild foods on a daily basis as that is what I do.

As far as the pellets I currently am feeding, I think Crittermom may have hit the nail on the head when she said,



So, my vote is for this thread staying open!Agree, Michele!:grouphug :goodpost

[Pierre]

Before an animal diet, like a block, is formulated, the scientists will calculate the average weight of food consumed by an average animal of that species. It's what everything is based on. Are you saying that that's "impossible"? Somehow they do it. :)

For continued, unemotional discussion...:D and reply to your question:

I never said anything about “impossible”. ??? Been in medicine too long to know nothing is impossible.

Gut bulk is indubitably important, hence noting the amount of forage an animal consumes. As a total extreme opposite example, that is why one does not want to be on TPN [total parenteral nutrition, for those who cannot take oral or enteral nutrition] for extended periods of time. The GI tract needs forage to pass through it to remain healthy.

Bulk or forage is only where optimal food design starts, not where it finishes.

There are many studies that look at high forage-low digestibility vs concentrate feeds. Overall, while there are titter and tot differences in some of many parameters, the general health on a quality concentrated food is generally equivalent or superior.

But once gut bulk and adequate forage is passed through the GI tract, the concern is then in the optimal nutrients and calories supplied, not in the absolute weight of the food.

Again, a pound of celery or lettuce does not equal a pound of rat block nutritionally. And if there were a critter whose optimal diet was a pound of celery, you would not give it a pound of rat block.
Too much nutrition.

:peace :grouphug

[keetz1205]

For continued, unemotional discussion...:D and reply to your question:

I never said anything about “impossible”. ??? Been in medicine too long to know nothing is impossible.

Gut bulk is indubitably important, hence noting the amount of forage an animal consumes. As a total extreme opposite example, that is why one does not want to be on TPN [total parenteral nutrition, for those who cannot take oral or enteral nutrition] for extended periods of time. The GI tract needs forage to pass through it to remain healthy.

Bulk or forage is only where optimal food design starts, not where it finishes.

There are many studies that look at high forage-low digestibility vs concentrate feeds. Overall, while there are titter and tot differences in some of many parameters, the general health on a quality concentrated food is generally equivalent or superior.

But once gut bulk and adequate forage is passed through the GI tract, the concern is then in the optimal nutrients and calories supplied, not in the absolute weight of the food.

Again, a pound of celery or lettuce does not equal a pound of rat block nutritionally. And if there were a critter whose optimal diet was a pound of celery, you would not give it a pound of rat block.
Too much nutrition.

:peace :grouphug


:goodpost

[muffinsquirrel]

Alright, I am a rehabber. I rescue, rehab, release, provide long term care for NRs, and feed the wilds. I also R,R,& R flying squirrels, as well as keep them as part of the family, spoil them rotten, and, occasionally, raise a few litters.

I generally feed a tad too much rather than too little. I am always looking for wild foods to give them, and always offer protein of some sort. They get the usual selection of fresh veggies, and occasionally the NOT so usual, like garbanzo beans, which they all love. They get some sort of blocks when I have them, and if they will eat them. They get fruit of varoius kinds. They get nuts, both in and out of shell. They also get yogurt mixed with FV powder almost every night, no matter what their age - that takes care of the calcium and vitamins and trace minerals.

In other words, I feed what I can afford, easily find, and that they like. I am not fanatical about they HAVE to have this or that. I don't feed by the day, but by the week or month. (They are fed every day, but the nutrients are not measured by the day, but by their intake over the long run.) I think the HHBs are great, well researched, and fill a definate need. I also think the BooBalls have a place in a squirrel diet.

But most of all, I think that I am feeding my squirrels the right way. Certainly not the ONLY way, but MY way. My squirrels are very healthy in their diet - I haven't had any down with MBD or any other dietary problem. I do not get mad at people that don't feed the way I do - we all have to make choices and face consequences - and I don't expect people to get mad at me because I don't follow their diet.

TSB is a wonderful place. It was started as a place where someone could get help for their squirrels, and answers to their questions. Let's keep it that way. We need to stop the bickering about who started what addition to the squirrel diet, which one is better, and who endorses what and for what reasons. NONE OF THAT IS IMPORTANT! The important thing is that we have these products available to us, for the benefit of our squirrels. I know that a lot of us have come up with various recipes to tempt our squirrells. If something I threw together helps another squirrel, I am thrilled - I certainly don't care about how much credit I do or do not get for 'inventing' it. It isn't about you, it isn't about me, it's ABOUT THE SQUIRRELS. While everyone is out there picking fights about who's got the best product, squirrels are dying because the owners can't get a clear answer about what they can do to help them. Get back on track, people. Tell people that their squirrel needs blocks to stay alive. Then mention a wide variety to chose from - HT, Mazouri, HHBs, KayTee, etc. If they need a good supplement, mention BooBalls, yogurt mixed with FV, etc. Then let them make their own decisions. These people aren't idiots - after all, they are smart enough to love squirrels, and smart enough to find TSB.

I am not taking sides. So far as I am concerned, there is only one side - the side of the squirrel. I, for one, and sick and tired of all the bickering that breaks out on this board. It detracts from the honesty and helpfulness of TSB. It ends up sounding like a 'he said, she said' elementary school fight, and nothing is ever decided.

One of the most important tools we have for keeping our squirrels healthy is one that is not often used - the necropsy. It's something that a lot of people don't understand, and involves a lot of sentimentality and heartbreak that no one wants to think about. And it can cost a good bit of money, but we've raised money before here on TSB - surely we can do it again to help discover what is causing our squirrels to die. A database to track whatever illness is killing our squirrels could give us a deeper understanding of what to do for them. Please don't let your love for YOUR squirrel get in the way of your love for ALL squirrels!

Get back on track - it's ALL ABOUT THE SQUIRRELS!!!!!

muffinsquirrel

[jo_schmoe]

As far as Booballs....here's what I do.
There always seems to be crushed up block in the bottom of the bag....so this is when they get booballs. ( It happens to be their FAVORITE time of the week!!)
I can also adjust the booball recipe according to species and size of the squirrel....Reds get ground up mealworms added and Foxers get seeds of some sort instead of nuts.

[island rehabber]

Please don't let your love for YOUR squirrel get in the way of your love for ALL squirrels!

Get back on track - it's ALL ABOUT THE SQUIRRELS!!!!!

muffinsquirrel

:goodpost

Well said, by one of the best. :bowdown

[jo_schmoe]

:goodpost

Well said, by one of the best. :bowdown
Exactly!!
Its why its so important to talk about these things....without the emotion getting the best of us.
I am not your "normal" TSB squirrel rehabber as I don't rehab any greys. It would be difficult for me to follow even the simple MBD treatments posted here on TSB as they would not be correct for MY squirrels. Since TSB is not just for people that foster greys....I believe that a thread such as this is even more beneficial to those that need advice....
The love for MY squirrels has lead to an understanding of the differences between species...and much research being done....research that I can't find on TSB or any other squirrel board.
I would have to say that MY love for MY squirrels is what has led to a better understanding of ALL squirrels....Its a beautiful thing!

[Pierre]

.

[Pierre]

Exactly!!
Its why its so important to talk about these things....without the emotion getting the best of us.
I am not your "normal" TSB squirrel rehabber as I don't rehab any greys. It would be difficult for me to follow even the simple MBD treatments posted here on TSB as they would not be correct for MY squirrels. Since TSB is not just for people that foster greys....I believe that a thread such as this is even more beneficial to those that need advice....
The love for MY squirrels has lead to an understanding of the differences between species...and much research being done....research that I can't find on TSB or any other squirrel board.
I would have to say that MY love for MY squirrels is what has led to a better understanding of ALL squirrels....Its a beautiful thing!

:goodpost :thumbsup

[Bravo]

Tell people that their squirrel needs blocks to stay alive. Then mention a wide variety to chose from - HT, Mazouri, HHBs, KayTee, etc. If they need a good supplement, mention BooBalls, yogurt mixed with FV, etc. Then let them make their own decisions. These people aren't idiots - after all, they are smart enough to love squirrels, and smart enough to find TSB.

Pretty much says it all.

[mpetys]

One of the most important tools we have for keeping our squirrels healthy is one that is not often used - the necropsy. It's something that a lot of people don't understand, and involves a lot of sentimentality and heartbreak that no one wants to think about. And it can cost a good bit of money, but we've raised money before here on TSB - surely we can do it again to help discover what is causing our squirrels to die. A database to track whatever illness is killing our squirrels could give us a deeper understanding of what to do for them. Please don't let your love for YOUR squirrel get in the way of your love for ALL squirrels!

Get back on track - it's ALL ABOUT THE SQUIRRELS!!!!!

muffinsquirrel

I totally agree with you on this. When my Tina died this past October, I chose not to have a necropsy done thinking whatever caused her death, happened, whether it was a heart issue or whatever. It was not that I didn't think Tina was worth the cost of a necropsy but so much had already been spent on her that I thought that whatever a necropsy would cost would be better spent on another squirrel who was fighting for a chance to live.

Now, looking back, I wish the necropsy had been done. Since then, I remember reading about someone else's squirrel that had died, for no known reason, they just found her on the bottom of the cage. It hit me even then that what you are saying is true. We should try to have necropsies done whenever there is an unexpected or unexplained death. This would benefit all squirrels in the long run.

[UDoWhat]

I completely agree. This thread should remain open. It is all about how we can do better in helping our squirrels. We need to get the "proper" nutrition word out there. Whether it is HHB's or commercial block we are here to help others discover what is right for their squirrel. It would be a shame to close it.

Marty

[mpetys]

I got the new eleven squirrels in. They look pretty good. For now, I am feeding them their Mazuri ovals with the change that I will add veggies daily. Do you think that is okay or should I slowly increase their veggies? Poor things, two of them were so scared they were just glued to the wall of the cage. Big change for them, the car ride and then they were in small cages just for transport. Now they are in the release cages about 5' x 7' x 8' tall. For the most part, it was exciting to watch them acclimate to the larger space and go nuts running all over the place, even across the ceiling. I filled a bowl with their blocks and will monitor. If I keep a bowl full of their blocks, should I wait till afternoon to give them veggies to encourage them to continue with the block eating?

[UDoWhat]

I would stay with the block tonight and introduce veggies very slowly. One or two different ones every few days. Be careful though, the new foods could give them diarrhea or a soft stool. I have been too aggressive sometimes thinking "they are not babies" and caused soft stools. Welcome little ones you are in great hands now.

Marty

[mpetys]

I would stay with the block tonight and introduce veggies very slowly. One or two different ones every few days. Be careful though, the new foods could give them diarrhea or a soft stool. I have been too aggressive sometimes thinking "they are not babies" and caused soft stools. Welcome little ones you are in great hands now.

Marty

All this wonderful help and I wait to ask the question after I have already fed them. I did give them some veggies and their bowl of blocks. Tomorrow I will give less veggies and build it up slowly. Hopefully they won't have any stool problems!

[jo_schmoe]

All this wonderful help and I wait to ask the question after I have already fed them. I did give them some veggies and their bowl of blocks. Tomorrow I will give less veggies and build it up slowly. Hopefully they won't have any stool problems!
How did the new guys fair??

[mpetys]

How did the new guys fair??

So far so good. The two who were scared and glued to the wall have decided it is not so bad after all. My guess is they were staying on the wall until we left the area. Gene was in and out of the cage putting new fleece in the nest boxes and their basket as well as putting their blocks and veggies in there. They were probably just waiting for the big ogres to leave!

[Pierre]

So far so good. The two who were scared and glued to the wall have decided it is not so bad after all. My guess is they were staying on the wall until we left the area. Gene was in and out of the cage putting new fleece in the nest boxes and their basket as well as putting their blocks and veggies in there. They were probably just waiting for the big ogres to leave!


Awwww..... poor little bubs! They'll be craziacs in no time I'm sure! My fall babies [5] were chicken livers the first day in the release cage and then were wild the next day!! :grouphug

[momma2boo]

I am just now getting on to check on your newbies. I had to wrangle a squirrel a few times this morning. Tipsy (a NR from Anne) sprung herself from her pen.

She was loving her time out of the pen. I almost felt bad putting her back in.

So now that I have conquered that, I am sitting for a moment with my coffee and checking in.

Glad to hear that everyone seems to be acclimating to their new half-way house. :D :thumbsup

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Needs a source for hickory nuts, I am afraid to order off ebay?

[jo_schmoe]

Ive used this one....good stuff!
http://www.hickorynutsfarm.com/

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

Now girls, You know you have repeatedly asked this question time and time again and I have also. I don't know the answer to the "million" dollar question but I will give it my best shot. Here's what I'm thinking, and someone please correct me if I am incorrect. :thankyou

If I understand it correctly 4s is assuming that a squirrel eats four pounds of rodent block per month, there fore she took the NRLA recommendations of 5000 mg/kg and figured it so that the squirrel would be eating 10000 mg/lb, since they eat their weight in food each month.

So that being said, I think she took that 10000 and divide it by 30 you get 333 mg/day of calcium. Which looks to me, now I'm not a professional by any means, that it would be rounded off to 330 mg.

:dono :dono :dono :dono

I hope this helps some. :poke :poke
Is that where the 330mg of calcium per day actually comes from.:dono

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Ive used this one....good stuff!
http://www.hickorynutsfarm.com/
Thanks, placing an order now so Mr. Chief O'Riley can have his christmas present. Not that hes been nice (to me anyway).

[mpetys]

The eleven newbies are doing good. They did eat some of their veggies I gave them, don't know how much any one of them ate and it was good to see that they really did eat those Mazuri oval blocks! Everyone got refills! I did give them veggies but a smaller amount. Will build up as they are getting used to daily veggies. The rehabber that brought them to me texted me last night checking on them and then texted me today. I was glad for that. Nice that she was worried even though I told her not to worry. :)

[UDoWhat]

So glad to hear they are doing good. It is good for them to eat the block. Mazuri block (ovals), I would imagine was at least 80-100% of their diet so they like it and are very use to it. The veggies will be treats for them. I am glad they are with you now.

Marty

[mpetys]

So glad to hear they are doing good. It is good for them to eat the block. Mazuri block (ovals), I would imagine was at least 80-100% of their diet so they like it and are very use to it. The veggies will be treats for them. I am glad they are with you now.

Marty

I'm glad to have them. We go out and hang out around the release cage and it is so nice to watch them and to have our releases come back to visit and get nuts. I tossed one of the releases an oval instead of a nut and was given such a look, like "are you crazy lady?"

[crazy4squirrels]

Sorry, but I live in Florida and if you base a diet on a rat....rats love the orange groves, grapefruit and berries, all of the fallen fruit (high in sugar). I believe they naturally balance thier diet with vegitation and natural proteins.

[mpetys]

Sorry, but I live in Florida and if you base a diet on a rat....rats love the orange groves, grapefruit and berries, all of the fallen fruit (high in sugar). I believe they naturally balance thier diet with vegitation and natural proteins.

Hi crazy4squirrels! are you in the tampa area? Just curious. You are right about the rats and the orane trees, grapefruit trees. Please don't say it's true about berries. My husband just planted somewhere between 20 and 30 blueberry bushes! :D

I have a friend who complaines about the wild squirrels and her avocado trees. She wouldn't mind if they would pick an avocado and eat it but they pick one, bite the skin off and eat a bit. Then they throw it on the ground and pick another one. She goes behind them and picks up the avocados and slices off where they have eaten off of so she can have some. Hmm, I don't know that I would do that.

[astra]

Hi crazy4squirrels! are you in the tampa area? Just curious. You are right about the rats and the orane trees, grapefruit trees. Please don't say it's true about berries. My husband just planted somewhere between 20 and 30 blueberry bushes! :D

I have a friend who complaines about the wild squirrels and her avocado trees. She wouldn't mind if they would pick an avocado and eat it but they pick one, bite the skin off and eat a bit. Then they throw it on the ground and pick another one. She goes behind them and picks up the avocados and slices off where they have eaten off of so she can have some. Hmm, I don't know that I would do that.
years ago, someone I know had the same problem with her pear trees on Long Island. She had several very fruitful pear trees, one year she had such an abundant harvest of pears - she brought me bags and bags (because no one would eat them at her house) and I LOVE pears.
But I remember how she complained that squirrel would take a pear, bite it a couple of times, throw it and go for a new pear.;-D she'd end up having a lot of pears on the ground with one or two squirrel bites.
She would throw those out.

[crazy4squirrels]

I am up in Pasco County Florida. AWE, my squirrels love blue berries! birds and rats too, sorry. Have fun with the blue berries! They are great to freeze and use as ice cubes in drinks:)

[Chickenlegs]

Oh my GOSH! The thought of throwing out a perfectly good pear cause a squirrel took a bite makes me crazy. Of course I'm not very fastidious--ask my husband--but a paring knife and those pears would have made a fine pot of pear butter.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

My guy loves blue berries also, I have offered apple, cantaloupe, watermelon,grapes, peaches, pears, strawberry, raspberry, blackberry,kiwi , bananas,what did I miss (besides all the weird stuff Stosh gives Rama)
he eats his block in the morning ( alternate HHR and mariuz (sp), if not he gets block again for lunch ( dont mess with me you little fussy guy)
He will eat Brussel sprouts and green beans ,thats about it for veggies, doesn't like avocado everyone raves about. Will not eat boo balls, have tried various recipes all with blue berries, still experimenting with this one. only gets one nut a day.
Wish he would go back to his bottle, I miss that.

[astra]

Oh my GOSH! The thought of throwing out a perfectly good pear cause a squirrel took a bite makes me crazy. Of course I'm not very fastidious--ask my husband--but a paring knife and those pears would have made a fine pot of pear butter.
i know, right?... but I guess, no one wanted to bother... no one even ate pears - I was eating her pears, and I made tons of pear jam/butter/whatever you want to call it, and there were still a lot of pears left.
I felt a bit sad that she ended up taking all those trees down (leaving poor munchkins without pears;-))

[astra]

what did I miss (besides all the weird stuff Stosh gives Rama)
:D :D

[jo_schmoe]

Fresh...VS.....Frozen.
What are your experiences?

[sdreamcatcher]

Trying to remember if i had a headache before starting this thread......



All arguments and egos aside this is a very enlightening post. I am reading up as much as I can after the scare I had with my boys a little over a week ago.


To know that rodent blocks can be bought so inexpensively is very good to know, as I may be able to secure a small amount of money, and I think some should be earmarked for such.


In addition to feeding Butchie and Joey, who I may keep on the hhbs because Joey loves them and Butchie is slowly coming around (THANK YOU 4skwerlz!!), I also feed over a dozen wilds, including three wild orphans, plus I have my assorted meeces (mice) who I am struggling to feed healthy foods to. If my feed store can possibly order blocks, that would be one less worry for me. Also if the wilds like them, that would solve so many issues, like if they are getting what they need (Many many thanks to Marty for the fv and other foods she sent for making goodies for the boys; the babies and other wilds also get some). I am also having issues with crows; my guess will be it will be harder for them to steal blocks then bread pieces? Not real keen on crows after last years baby bird feast they went through :shakehead . IF the feed store can't get blocks it is nice to know there may be online options as well.


Thanks to all who make life better for these bratty lovable "where in the world would I be without them?!" furry souls. I KNOW Butchie was sent (sacrificed?) by the outdoor bunch to infiltrate my home and heart (and dagnabbit it worked!!). Joey has been a Godsend as well, in so many ways. (To think I had been worried Butchie would be my favored baby; Joey is so different and I love him just as much; they really compliment each other):Love_Icon :Love_Icon ok ok enough mushiness :tilt :tilt

[sdreamcatcher]

Oh!! About the pear tree story! This summer we had a BUMPER CROP of apples . Bratty wilds did that eat a few bites then "Ooops! Dropped it! Look! There's another apple hanging right there!" so lots of apples. Cut out the bite marks and chopped all the apples and lots of fresh applesauce. Crock pot style!! Even with all the thieving, we still picked tons of apples without bite marks :).

[mpetys]

I am up in Pasco County Florida. AWE, my squirrels love blue berries! birds and rats too, sorry. Have fun with the blue berries! They are great to freeze and use as ice cubes in drinks:)

I plan on freezing as much as possible. My husband loves blueberries too so it will be a challenge to get some for the squirrels! We have blackberries all over the property and I used to tell him, I need 14 to feed the squirrels I had at the time. They never made it into the house. He would eat them as he came across them!

Oh, you are not too far. My mother in law lives in New Port Richey. She rescued a squirrel from a cat over a year ago and called us. I still have him as one of my NR's.

[mpetys]

Oh my GOSH! The thought of throwing out a perfectly good pear cause a squirrel took a bite makes me crazy. Of course I'm not very fastidious--ask my husband--but a paring knife and those pears would have made a fine pot of pear butter.


Chickenlegs, at first when I heard my friend say that she would cut off the part of the avocado the squirrels nibbled on, I was kinda freaking out, thinking that was so weird. Then I thought about it and thought, well I would do that if it were MY squirrels. So, now I imagine that if the squirrels were to do that to any avocados or apples we are trying to grow, I think I would not hesitate to pick up and salvage. If nothing else, for my gang of squirrels!

[mpetys]

My guy loves blue berries also, I have offered apple, cantaloupe, watermelon,grapes, peaches, pears, strawberry, raspberry, blackberry,kiwi , bananas,what did I miss (besides all the weird stuff Stosh gives Rama)
he eats his block in the morning ( alternate HHR and mariuz (sp), if not he gets block again for lunch ( dont mess with me you little fussy guy)
He will eat Brussel sprouts and green beans ,thats about it for veggies, doesn't like avocado everyone raves about. Will not eat boo balls, have tried various recipes all with blue berries, still experimenting with this one. only gets one nut a day.
Wish he would go back to his bottle, I miss that.

Oh, Simon is cute! I can only get any squirrels in my care to eat cantaloupe if it is not ripe at all. The opposite of ripe. Firm, not juicy or wet. I have never had much success with strawberries either. I guess I just have really picky squirrels. Mine love brussel sprouts but I have not had much luck getting any of them to eat green beans. However, I am anxious to get my garden going because I can't help but think that they are going to enjoy their veggies fresh off the plant, still warmed by the sun, instead of cold from the fridge. I may be wrong but it just seems like it would be more natrual to eat a outside temperature veggie.

I would bring out the bottle every now and then. I have some that are long past that and then if I am feeding babies and have some left over, will try feeding to one of my NR's and they chow down on it. Of course, the next day when I put a small dish of formula in their cage, they turn their nose up at it! They have us wrapped around little fingers, everything don't they?

[mpetys]

i know, right?... but I guess, no one wanted to bother... no one even ate pears - I was eating her pears, and I made tons of pear jam/butter/whatever you want to call it, and there were still a lot of pears left.
I felt a bit sad that she ended up taking all those trees down (leaving poor munchkins without pears;-))

A friend stopped by and he and his wife hung out with us out by the release cage with a bag of nuts. He told us that his son, who lives in Tampa, has a huge pecan tree and the squirrels are always in that tree. He said that his soon has been trimming the tree hoping the squirrels will go away. Of course when I heard that, my heart sank. I started to tell them to tell their son what a good thing having that pecan tree was for his neighborhood squirrels. Well they said, no, he likes having the squirrels there but has a neighbor that shoots them to eat. I know. Made me sick too. So their son would rather get rid of the pecan tree than to invite all the neighborhood squirrels there to be sitting targets.

I am trying to find out if he lives in the city limits as hopefully he will have better luck with the city with a neighbor discharging a fiirearm within the city. We have seen how little the FWC cares. One concern I have is they are immigrants to this country and I would be very surprised if he would want to get involved with authorities. They are legal, but a lot of times, people are intimidated by authority figures espeically if there is a comunication issue.

[mpetys]

Fresh...VS.....Frozen.
What are your experiences?

Are you asking about blueberries. If so, I have only given fresh, but was talking to someone who give frozen blueberries. I can only imagine they would like it. I do stock up on cranberries during the holiday time and throw them in the freezer. Same with pomegranites. I will get all the little berries and freeze them for the squirrels and for me. They are delicious as a salad topping. Little bursts of flavor!

I have bought frozen avocados before. They sell them at restaurant depot. When they thaw, they are too mushy. But I keep some on hand for emergencies, when I run out or they are too expensive and I will give it too them in a frozen state. They like it but it does get messy as it thaws. When it gets messy, my guys want nothing to do with it.

[mpetys]

Trying to remember if i had a headache before starting this thread......



All arguments and egos aside this is a very enlightening post. I am reading up as much as I can after the scare I had with my boys a little over a week ago.


To know that rodent blocks can be bought so inexpensively is very good to know, as I may be able to secure a small amount of money, and I think some should be earmarked for such.


In addition to feeding Butchie and Joey, who I may keep on the hhbs because Joey loves them and Butchie is slowly coming around (THANK YOU 4skwerlz!!), I also feed over a dozen wilds, including three wild orphans, plus I have my assorted meeces (mice) who I am struggling to feed healthy foods to. If my feed store can possibly order blocks, that would be one less worry for me. Also if the wilds like them, that would solve so many issues, like if they are getting what they need (Many many thanks to Marty for the fv and other foods she sent for making goodies for the boys; the babies and other wilds also get some). I am also having issues with crows; my guess will be it will be harder for them to steal blocks then bread pieces? Not real keen on crows after last years baby bird feast they went through :shakehead . IF the feed store can't get blocks it is nice to know there may be online options as well.


Thanks to all who make life better for these bratty lovable "where in the world would I be without them?!" furry souls. I KNOW Butchie was sent (sacrificed?) by the outdoor bunch to infiltrate my home and heart (and dagnabbit it worked!!). Joey has been a Godsend as well, in so many ways. (To think I had been worried Butchie would be my favored baby; Joey is so different and I love him just as much; they really compliment each other):Love_Icon :Love_Icon ok ok enough mushiness :tilt :tilt

I love your mushiness! Most definitely, especially if you are feeding wilds, keeping costs down is a bonus. Did you see Crittermoms post #25 about how she cooks them up with peanut butter and other ingredients to make them more palatable for the wilds? I definitely want to try that.

I like your theory of how Butchie was sent to infiltrate your home. Those squirrels are not dumb. They must have seen or heard of this phenomenom whereas a human takes in a baby squirrel and falls in love with all squirrels, thereby making life more pleasant for even the outside wilds. Yes, they sacrificed little Butchie and it worked. Butchie is probably a hero, known to all wild squirrels in your area! :jump

[jo_schmoe]

Are you asking about blueberries. If so, I have only given fresh, but was talking to someone who give frozen blueberries. I can only imagine they would like it. I do stock up on cranberries during the holiday time and throw them in the freezer. Same with pomegranites. I will get all the little berries and freeze them for the squirrels and for me. They are delicious as a salad topping. Little bursts of flavor!

I have bought frozen avocados before. They sell them at restaurant depot. When they thaw, they are too mushy. But I keep some on hand for emergencies, when I run out or they are too expensive and I will give it too them in a frozen state. They like it but it does get messy as it thaws. When it gets messy, my guys want nothing to do with it.
Im wondering about ALL sorts of stuff. I had such a hard time getting the Reds to eat any sort of green veggies. Can't even say myself how much broccoli has ended up in the trash. It wasn't until I picked up a bag of frozen broccoli and cauliflower did I realize that they really DO like broccoli...if its frozen! Now they cant get enough of it!!! :jumpAnd I love the fact that its already chopped up.

[mpetys]

Im wondering about ALL sorts of stuff. I had such a hard time getting the Reds to eat any sort of green veggies. Can't even say myself how much broccoli has ended up in the trash. It wasn't until I picked up a bag of frozen broccoli and cauliflower did I realize that they really DO like broccoli...if its frozen! Now they cant get enough of it!!! :jumpAnd I love the fact that its already chopped up.

I have never tried frozen veggies but I do remember reading Rama Rota's thread about how he really liked his ice chips so they started making FROZEN Squash in Individual ( Squirrel- Sized ) Portions. Rama thinks it's DESSERT. Here is a link to that post with its pictures. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=613742&postcount=977

I haven't tried this but I may try it. If any of the squirrels like it, it would be a great way of not having any veggies go to waste! We'll have to give Stosh credit for creating the frozen veggie ball!

[Pierre]

Chickenlegs, at first when I heard my friend say that she would cut off the part of the avocado the squirrels nibbled on, I was kinda freaking out, thinking that was so weird. Then I thought about it and thought, well I would do that if it were MY squirrels. So, now I imagine that if the squirrels were to do that to any avocados or apples we are trying to grow, I think I would not hesitate to pick up and salvage. If nothing else, for my gang of squirrels!

I'd totally cut the nibbles out and then eat it!! My horse [below] and I share carrots all the time! Yep, I get his horsey germs! :rotfl

Animal germs don't bother me---human ones do!! :D

[sdreamcatcher]

I love your mushiness! Most definitely, especially if you are feeding wilds, keeping costs down is a bonus. Did you see Crittermoms post #25 about how she cooks them up with peanut butter and other ingredients to make them more palatable for the wilds? I definitely want to try that.

I like your theory of how Butchie was sent to infiltrate your home. Those squirrels are not dumb. They must have seen or heard of this phenomenom whereas a human takes in a baby squirrel and falls in love with all squirrels, thereby making life more pleasant for even the outside wilds. Yes, they sacrificed little Butchie and it worked. Butchie is probably a hero, known to all wild squirrels in your area! :jump


:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

So do you think they will have some sort of squirrel holiday when the boys get released?? ROTFL at that thought!! When I think of all the times i chased them out of the apple tree in years past......:shakehead


Those of you feeding cranberries, cooked first or straight out of the bag? I'm not a cranberry person :dono .

I was pricing blocks last night; they were around $20 for a 40 pound bag, but then they tack on $20-$25 for shipping :thinking . They DID have free shipping for orders over a certain amount, meaning if i bought three or more bags i could get that deal....course if i had a job this would be the way to go as one place had a great price on 5 bags at a time....






4 (written by the boys, lol) they dismantled the mouse while i was typing this mjs mjs

[Pierre]

Oops, sorry that pix posted so large....

Smaller:

[jo_schmoe]

Oops, sorry that pix posted so large....

Smaller:
BEAUTIFUL creature!!!
Ive got to show my co-worker this photo...she's a horse freak!!
I too can NOT handle human cooties....( you would have understood my freak out when I found a chocolate covered peanut cluster on the floor in my truck....thought it was poop...screamed like a 5 year old....:shakehead )
But catching fresh nuggets as they exit a squirrel bum bare handed doesn't bother me at all. My Female Pyrenees and I share stuff all the time...she probably has a cleaner mouth than Russ.....:D

SDream....right outta the bag. I buy a bunch of bags when they go on sale after TGiving. I freeze the majority and they seem to like them frozen too!
Cranberries are one of the few "fresh" things I allow them to keep in their stashes...they dry nicely.

[momma2boo]

SDream....right outta the bag. I buy a bunch of bags when they go on sale after TGiving. I freeze the majority and they seem to like them frozen too!
Cranberries are one of the few "fresh" things I allow them to keep in their stashes...they dry nicely.

Mine LOVE LOVE LOVE them. This year is the first time I have ever offered them ... they went nuts for them.

[UDoWhat]

Mine LOVE LOVE LOVE them. This year is the first time I have ever offered them ... they went nuts for them.
Mine really love them too. I have not frozen them but I will try that too. Have you every tasted them out of the bag?? They are so sour. I make a cranberry -orange relish but it has sugar in it. I was so surprised when I tasted the cranberries right out of the bag. I don't know how the squirrels eat them but they do and love them.:dono

Marty

[momma2boo]

Mine really love them too. I have not frozen them but I will try that too. Have you every tasted them out of the bag?? They are so sour. I make a cranberry -orange relish but it has sugar in it. I was so surprised when I tasted the cranberries right out of the bag. I don't know how the squirrels eat them but they do and love them.:dono

Marty

Oh yeah ... they are BIIIIIITTTERRRRR! I don't understand why they like them but they do. :dono

[island rehabber]

Squirrels LOVE bitter! Ever taste an acorn? :yuck:yuck:yuck That's why dandelion leaves and chickory are big hits, as well.

[UDoWhat]

Squirrels LOVE bitter! Ever taste an acorn? :yuck:yuck:yuck That's why dandelion leaves and chickory are big hits, as well.

Strange, crazy, bitter taste loving, squirrels. You are right... all bitter tastes.:yuck

Marty

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Dont know where you guys get your cranberries, but Simon wouldnt touch them, so I put them outside for my wilds, they didnt touch them either

BUT you know who did !!!??!!

[UDoWhat]

Dont know where you guys get your cranberries, but Simon wouldnt touch them, so I put them outside for my wilds, they didnt touch them either

BUT you know who did !!!??!!

Well of course!!:sanp3

Marty

[mpetys]

I have an update on my new 11 tenants. They came with their own Mazuri oval blocks. These guys are 6 - 9 months old. I decided I would keep them on these blocks as that is what they have been raised on and are used to. I would just add veggies as a daily food. Below is a pic of my release cage. These guys are in units 3 and 4. I use the stainless steel bowls that sit in a ring attached to the wall. So these guys have a big bowl for their veggies and then a smaller bowl that holds their blocks.

Units 1 and 2 do not have squirrels living in there but the portal door is open so the recently released ones can come back for a bite of salad, or their Zupreem Fruit Blend pellets. They had gotten low so we washed the bowls out, dried them and filled with pellets. When we put the pellets in empty unit # 2, the squirrels in unit #3 went nuts trying to get them. We used 1/2" wire mesh for the shared wall and the Zupreem bowl of pellets was anchored to that shared wall. The squirrels were trying to reach in and get the pellets. So . . . . . we sprinkled a few in each of their bowls and right away they all went for them. So I will have to be making a decision soon. If I am going to try to strictly keep them on the Mazuri blocks or if I will relent and let them have the Fruit Blend pellets too! I will soon be moving six more squirrels into unit #2 and they are on the Fruit Blend pellets so it kinda seems not fair for them to be eating it in front of the others if they want it to.

It looks like the squirrels we released are staying close by. This morning we had 21 squirrels playing around the release cage. Come spring we will be releasing at least 25 more. That is if I do not take any winter babies in. Hmmm, wonder what are the odds on that happening?

Sour stuff, yes thes squirrrels like that. I buy them key limes occsionally. Most of them like it!

[sdreamcatcher]

I have an update on my new 11 tenants. They came with their own Mazuri oval blocks. These guys are 6 - 9 months old. I decided I would keep them on these blocks as that is what they have been raised on and are used to. I would just add veggies as a daily food. Below is a pic of my release cage. These guys are in units 3 and 4. I use the stainless steel bowls that sit in a ring attached to the wall. So these guys have a big bowl for their veggies and then a smaller bowl that holds their blocks.

Units 1 and 2 do not have squirrels living in there but the portal door is open so the recently released ones can come back for a bite of salad, or their Zupreem Fruit Blend pellets. They had gotten low so we washed the bowls out, dried them and filled with pellets. When we put the pellets in empty unit # 2, the squirrels in unit #3 went nuts trying to get them. We used 1/2" wire mesh for the shared wall and the Zupreem bowl of pellets was anchored to that shared wall. The squirrels were trying to reach in and get the pellets. So . . . . . we sprinkled a few in each of their bowls and right away they all went for them. So I will have to be making a decision soon. If I am going to try to strictly keep them on the Mazuri blocks or if I will relent and let them have the Fruit Blend pellets too! I will soon be moving six more squirrels into unit #2 and they are on the Fruit Blend pellets so it kinda seems not fair for them to be eating it in front of the others if they want it to.

It looks like the squirrels we released are staying close by. This morning we had 21 squirrels playing around the release cage. Come spring we will be releasing at least 25 more. That is if I do not take any winter babies in. Hmmm, wonder what are the odds on that happening?

Sour stuff, yes thes squirrrels like that. I buy them key limes occsionally. Most of them like it!


Michelle, I envy your set up :). Amazing cages!! It looks like you have a lot of wild area for your releases. Here I contend with neighbors. Noisy, yucky, annoying neighbors who rev cars, play loud obnoxious music, let their cats run everywhere (and sometimes their dogs), and set off horrible fireworks every year, yet they get offended if I feed birds or squirrels :dono .

And bitter!! The boys like oranges those are pretty sweet, at least one round we got from a specific source. But I swear they snagged part of a lemon a few weeks ago, talk about sour, lol. They do seem to like the bitter greens in the salad mix too, if they are in the mood for greens.

[Pierre]

Michele,

Your place is just gorgeous! Wow. And heck, if the one group wants the Zupreem Fruit Blend Pellets, why not?? :)

I have a question though. With so many sqs around, do you have hawk problems? My fall release babies hang out near their release cage, sometimes sleeping in it and sometimes not. But there is bamboo nearby on my neighbor's yard, my tall spruce, and my 2 huge holly trees---all of which provide a lots of evergreen cover and protection, and lots of big bushes and other deciduous trees. BUT, I have seen hawks around lately, even sitting right above where the babies usually play all day. :nono

I'm just wondering how you [or anyone else here!] keeps them away???

[island rehabber]

I'm just wondering how you [or anyone else here!] keeps them away???

I have a problem with the stupid red-tails at my release site (they are like pigeons here in NY, now -- they're everywhere, dammit!) . So after researching ways to deter them, the only thing that worked was to put shiny objects up on top of the release cages, which would reflect the sun and flash at the hawks as they circled above. I used old CD's, shiny side up. You can also use Mylar balloons if you've got your own yard and can put whatever you want. At least now I don't have hawks SITTING ON TOP of my release cages when I get there :bash:frustratedx

[astra]

I'm just wondering how you [or anyone else here!] keeps them away???
of course, you cannot completely drive them away, but what some people do (I did on my deck) is cover the feeding area: however many posts you need with a netting on top, like a canopy. I had pics somewhere, but now I cannot find them.
I used the kind of plastic net thing like they use to fence construction sites (or some other areas). Usually, you will see it in orange, but I found in green at Home Depot.

I remember someone posting pics of variations of that, someone used metal lattice-kind of things, positioning them fairly low so that hawks would not be able to sweep under.
Someone used chicken wire, although, i remember reading that chicken wire is too flimsy and hawks break right through it.

gs1 had a hand-made net. I think, she made it herself by using rope and interlocking at about 1meter or half meter intervals - large enough not to be too much work and hassle, yet, small enough to keep hawks away.

I also put up CDs. I do not know how much the CDs helped, but did not see hawks after I put the CDs up.

So, maybe something along the lines of covering the feeding area at least, and, maybe, other open areas that might be dangerous?

[Pierre]

I have a problem with the stupid red-tails at my release site (they are like pigeons here in NY, now -- they're everywhere, dammit!) . So after researching ways to deter them, the only thing that worked was to put shiny objects up on top of the release cages, which would reflect the sun and flash at the hawks as they circled above. I used old CD's, shiny side up. You can also use Mylar balloons if you've got your own yard and can put whatever you want. At least now I don't have hawks SITTING ON TOP of my release cages when I get there :bash:frustratedx

GREAT suggestions, IR. :thankyou very much. I will try the CD's -- that sounds like a great and easy idea. :bowdown I hate the hawks hanging around!!

Here I am, an animal lover, and I have visions of strangling them!! [which I wouldn't ever really do, but it's my momma bear coming out to protect my "babies"!]
.... :gun2 :Cannon

[Pierre]

of course, you cannot completely drive them away, but what some people do (I did on my deck) is cover the feeding area: however many posts you need with a netting on top, like a canopy. I had pics somewhere, but now I cannot find them.
I used the kind of plastic net thing like they use to fence construction sites (or some other areas). Usually, you will see it in orange, but I found in green at Home Depot.

I remember someone posting pics of variations of that, someone used metal lattice-kind of things, positioning them fairly low so that hawks would not be able to sweep under.
Someone used chicken wire, although, i remember reading that chicken wire is too flimsy and hawks break right through it.

gs1 had a hand-made net. I think, she made it herself by using rope and interlocking at about 1meter or half meter intervals - large enough not to be too much work and hassle, yet, small enough to keep hawks away.

I also put up CDs. I do not know how much the CDs helped, but did not see hawks after I put the CDs up.

So, maybe something along the lines of covering the feeding area at least, and, maybe, other open areas that might be dangerous?

Astra, :thankyou

More good thoughts. I don't know how I could do the net [though I'd love to] because the babies play in an area that is broken up with lots of huge trees [40-70 foot maples and oak trees]. Perhaps I could do it around the area behind their release cage, but they're there just off and on. The wander everywhere! :shakehead

Grayson always comes over during the day too, but sleeps in a neighbor's tree. I worry he'll get caught too!! :Cry

Uggh.

[mpetys]

Michelle, I envy your set up :). Amazing cages!! It looks like you have a lot of wild area for your releases. Here I contend with neighbors. Noisy, yucky, annoying neighbors who rev cars, play loud obnoxious music, let their cats run everywhere (and sometimes their dogs), and set off horrible fireworks every year, yet they get offended if I feed birds or squirrels :dono .

And bitter!! The boys like oranges those are pretty sweet, at least one round we got from a specific source. But I swear they snagged part of a lemon a few weeks ago, talk about sour, lol. They do seem to like the bitter greens in the salad mix too, if they are in the mood for greens.

We have 2.5 acres but the best thing is that there are hundreds of undeveloped woods behind me. As much as I hate not seeing some of the releases, I just make myself accept the fact that they have ventured further away, experiencing that freedom they now have. Where you are now, sounds like our last house. Next county over, too developed, in a neighborhood with cats, cars, music and the fireworks, even though fireworks are banned in that county. We now live in a rural setting and I love it. Although, we could use more property. We have chickens, ducks and geese and my husband keeps talking about wanting goats! I am happy with just squirrels.

We have orange trees on our property and the oranges are sour as can be. I haven't seen the squirrels with those and don't care too as these trees have horrible thorns on them.

[mpetys]

Michele,

Your place is just gorgeous! Wow. And heck, if the one group wants the Zupreem Fruit Blend Pellets, why not?? :)

I have a question though. With so many sqs around, do you have hawk problems? My fall release babies hang out near their release cage, sometimes sleeping in it and sometimes not. But there is bamboo nearby on my neighbor's yard, my tall spruce, and my 2 huge holly trees---all of which provide a lots of evergreen cover and protection, and lots of big bushes and other deciduous trees. BUT, I have seen hawks around lately, even sitting right above where the babies usually play all day. :nono

I'm just wondering how you [or anyone else here!] keeps them away???

Pierre, we have had a hawk family on the premises but they have been gone for the last few years. When we first moved here, I loved watching them raise their young. We would see papa fly overhead with a snake or a mouse and watch as he placed it on the ground at the base of the tree. Mom would come down with two young hawks and mom and dad would proceed to show the young ones what to do. It was fascinatiing to watch, I had no empathy for the snakes but it did bother me about the mice.

Now I pray they do not come back. We have these predator guards on the property. Little boxes that are solar powered and at night a red light comes on. You are supposed to scatter these around the property and so when a predator comes on, they see the red light and think it is a larger predator in the distance. We had problems with a fox, bobcat and a coyote at one time with our ducks. Not so much since we put those up. Right now I am concerned and watching a black cat that has been around since he was a kitten. We keep him well fed but I just told my husband that we may have to have another plan. Trap him and take him to a no-kill facility, or do as we have always done in the past, take him in ourselves. I am not looking forward to that as we already have 6 cats and my goal was to not add to that, especially a male. But we love this little guy. He walks right through our chickens and ducks and bothers no one.

One thing I read about having hawks around is that is it a good idea to plant bushes around the areas where the squirrels play or to break up big open spaces. This way they have a place to dart in and hide from a hawk. That is on my drawing board for later!

[mpetys]

I have a problem with the stupid red-tails at my release site (they are like pigeons here in NY, now -- they're everywhere, dammit!) . So after researching ways to deter them, the only thing that worked was to put shiny objects up on top of the release cages, which would reflect the sun and flash at the hawks as they circled above. I used old CD's, shiny side up. You can also use Mylar balloons if you've got your own yard and can put whatever you want. At least now I don't have hawks SITTING ON TOP of my release cages when I get there :bash:frustratedx

Oh I love it. Hanging CD all over the place! Make a disco ball out of them! Ok, I'll add this to the things to do list to. :jump

[mpetys]

of course, you cannot completely drive them away, but what some people do (I did on my deck) is cover the feeding area: however many posts you need with a netting on top, like a canopy. I had pics somewhere, but now I cannot find them.
I used the kind of plastic net thing like they use to fence construction sites (or some other areas). Usually, you will see it in orange, but I found in green at Home Depot.

I remember someone posting pics of variations of that, someone used metal lattice-kind of things, positioning them fairly low so that hawks would not be able to sweep under.
Someone used chicken wire, although, i remember reading that chicken wire is too flimsy and hawks break right through it.

gs1 had a hand-made net. I think, she made it herself by using rope and interlocking at about 1meter or half meter intervals - large enough not to be too much work and hassle, yet, small enough to keep hawks away.

I also put up CDs. I do not know how much the CDs helped, but did not see hawks after I put the CDs up.

So, maybe something along the lines of covering the feeding area at least, and, maybe, other open areas that might be dangerous?


Good idea. I want to build little feeding stations around the property so as the releases scatter, they don't have to come back to the release area to get their diet supplemented. My idea is some kind of tall wood thing they could climb up that had a platform at the top so several coud sit around a bowl and eat and all covered by a roof so the food is protected from the rain and the squirrels are not sitting ducks for the hawks!

[mpetys]

I wanted to say :thankyou to Stosh! He saw our discussion early on in this thread about the 50 pound bag of Mazuri blocks being available for $23 and he sent me a donation via Paypal to buy the first big bag of blocks for my guys! I will be getting that bag soon as the eleven new guys I have do eat this block as the main part of their diet. So Thank You Stosh for thinking of my guys!

[momma2boo]

Squirrels LOVE bitter! Ever taste an acorn? :yuck:yuck:yuck That's why dandelion leaves and chickory are big hits, as well.

I would FIGHT my squirrels for the dandelion you can only get in the Northern states, like where I am originally from ... South Jersey. We ate leaves and buds alike, with hard boiled egg, and onion on it ... then drizzled with italian dressing. Oh my ... my mouth is watering. I'm gonna drool any second.

[lizharrell1]

This may sound like a stupid question, but WHERE do I get dandelion greens? I haven't personally even SEEN a dandelion since I was a kid......I am thinking my flyers might like some.........maybe I can convince Anakin that dandelion greens are much tastier than those nasty superworms that turn into superbeetles.....*shiver*

[Milo's Mom]

I would FIGHT my squirrels for the dandelion you can only get in the Northern states, like where I am originally from ... South Jersey. We ate leaves and buds alike, with hard boiled egg, and onion on it ... then drizzled with italian dressing. Oh my ... my mouth is watering. I'm gonna drool any second.

Yup, my Grandmother used to make those salads for us. At the time, I dreaded those weed filled salads, but now...YUM!!!

[Milo's Mom]

This may sound like a stupid question, but WHERE do I get dandelion greens? I haven't personally even SEEN a dandelion since I was a kid......I am thinking my flyers might like some.........maybe I can convince Anakin that dandelion greens are much tastier than those nasty superworms that turn into superbeetles.....*shiver*

I have some in my yard!! :D :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

Bring your coat, scarf, and gloves. It's COLD here!!

[island rehabber]

Yup, my Grandmother used to make those salads for us. At the time, I dreaded those weed filled salads, but now...YUM!!!

cicoria! My grandmother made it, too....sometimes cooked with chick peas or cannelini beans. Yummm. But I still love it best raw in a green salad. :D

[Milo's Mom]

This may sound like a stupid question, but WHERE do I get dandelion greens? I haven't personally even SEEN a dandelion since I was a kid......I am thinking my flyers might like some.........maybe I can convince Anakin that dandelion greens are much tastier than those nasty superworms that turn into superbeetles.....*shiver*

Seriously though, if you are going to the Gathering, wherever and whenever it is, and if the dandelions are not buried under snow, I will pick some leaves for you and bring them to FL. When I pick them they usually last in a baggy in the fridge for a week or so, so they should make it to FL just fine.

REMIND ME TO CHECK THE YARD FOR THEM BEFORE I LEAVE FOR THE GATHERING.

[fire-eyez]

I just bought some at the Food Market

[fire-eyez]

Organic food markets should have them.....see Iif there is a Food Market in your area :D

[momma2boo]

Seriously though, if you are going to the Gathering, wherever and whenever it is, and if the dandelions are not buried under snow, I will pick some leaves for you and bring them to FL. When I pick them they usually last in a baggy in the fridge for a week or so, so they should make it to FL just fine.

REMIND ME TO CHECK THE YARD FOR THEM BEFORE I LEAVE FOR THE GATHERING.

I'll fight Liz for 'em :poke and not for my squirrels either ... I love 'em but only the ones that grow up north. The stuff you get down here doesn't truly look like real dandelion.

[mpetys]

This may sound like a stupid question, but WHERE do I get dandelion greens? I haven't personally even SEEN a dandelion since I was a kid......I am thinking my flyers might like some.........maybe I can convince Anakin that dandelion greens are much tastier than those nasty superworms that turn into superbeetles.....*shiver*

I just bought some last night at a health food store in Clearwater, Nature's Garden Patch. They had dandelion greens and red dandelion greens. Only difference I could see was the red ones had red stems. $2.89 per bunch.

For those of you with Publix stores, I have found them occasionally at the higher end Publix stores. I didn't know there was a difference in Publix stores until I stopped at one in a "nicer" neighborhood. What a difference! Sometimes I would go out of my way to shop there!

I have never eaten them before, don't know if I want to try them. I might like them and that wouldn't be fair to the squirrels now, would it?

Does anyone know if they sell dandelion seeds anywhere? I would love to grow them.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Liz, I have started shopping at Fresh Market...it's high end, but everything ..EVERYTHING is organic and beautiful...
they have so many things other stores don't have..
when they have sales, they're great..I usually only buy the on sale produce
2 heads of gorgeous romaine for $3..
they have a 6 pack of mini artichokes for $5
and nuts galore...
mozart and czechowski...a wonderful store...
of course I am the only farmer looking person there...but hey...
farmers have to shop too!
It looks like they are everywhere...:thumbsup

THEY HAVE DANDELION GREENS!!!


The Fresh Market (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQoAIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefreshmarket.com%2Fstores%2 Fstore_locationsDetail.aspx%3FStoreId%3D19&ei=wy7nTqzdLIeWtwffnLzSCg&usg=AFQjCNHWuCZrllsybR3vV8zlWG8PDD3TXQ&sig2=EEkkVeXAYRYXjO3eWjZ56A)


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[island rehabber]

I'm hysterical over here at the thought of anyone PLANTING dandelions -- only because up here they are the ultimate weed that every gardener hates :pissed:bash:frustratedx:icon_devil. Landscapers charge an extra fortune to pull out "crabgrass"..... Home Depot sells thousands of gallons of dandelion killer every spring.

...then there are the Bird of Paradise plants that grow like weeds in Southern California.....wild, untended, often on the side of a freeway........but, they sell for FIVE BUCKS per stalk at fancy NYC florists :rotfl.

I'm gonna get a business going, picking NY dandelions and charging the homeowners for it -- then sell 'em to my squirrelly friends down South. :D

[2ndHandRanchRescue]

On "Rehabbers! What do you feed your squirrels?" get this, just got in 4 fox juvies for overwintering from a local and very respected rehabber (she does mostly birds and works with 2 wildlife vets and a wildlife center) rehabbing since 1984. Well I get the kids in, and they are terrified - worst I've even seen. Their coats are dull and they are smallish. They're OK, but not 'blooming' like my same age Garnet.
They were raised in aquariums, covered most of the day and are terrified. No climbing skills. 2 in hammies and won't move. 2 hidden under the blankets on the floor of my big cage here in my office. I don't think they've come out to eat.
So I asked what she fed....... sunflower seeds, corn, nuts and 1 monkey biscuit a day. No veg, no natural, no calcium, no rat block. She never over winters - so I'm so happy to have and I'M SO HAPPY TO HAVE TSB FOR FEEDING ADVICE AND SHARING IDEAS

Ok, back to dandelions - The Greek & Itallian markets in Chicago have.....gosh I miss them. Greens with olive oil and fresh lemon = YUM

[island rehabber]

Yikes, Nancy --- I would start them on an MBD protocol "just in case".....:shakehead
poor babies!

[mpetys]

Nancy, I am so glad they are in your care now. Poor babies!

[2ndHandRanchRescue]

Running to the store for formula now. They are wild-ish -not crazed -but so scared. Garnet wants them to play so bad - I am proud of how healthy my kids are!!!
Just shows how ALL rehabbers can learn something on this place. Since Illinois has no test, and has not study guide, has nothing at all (not even a permit fee) - I wish I could MAKE all squirrel folks come learn here.

[Pierre]

Thanks heavens they're now with you 2HRR! Hope they relax soon and start their journey to bloom... :grouphug

[mpetys]

I'm hysterical over here at the thought of anyone PLANTING dandelions -- only because up here they are the ultimate weed that every gardener hates :pissed:bash:frustratedx:icon_devil. Landscapers charge an extra fortune to pull out "crabgrass"..... Home Depot sells thousands of gallons of dandelion killer every spring.

...then there are the Bird of Paradise plants that grow like weeds in Southern California.....wild, untended, often on the side of a freeway........but, they sell for FIVE BUCKS per stalk at fancy NYC florists :rotfl.

I'm gonna get a business going, picking NY dandelions and charging the homeowners for it -- then sell 'em to my squirrelly friends down South. :D



Laugh all you want!! :D I guess it is akin to one mans junk is another mans treasure! Like my friend who has tons of hickory nut trees on her property and practically begs me to come get some. To her they are a nuisance!

Or, at my old house, we had a goldfish pond. I used to go to the fish store and buy duckweed for the fish. At my new house, we have a creek running through our property. Duckweed everywhere. We have ducks and geese just to keep the duckweed and the dollarweed from taking over completely. As a matter of fact, my husband had one of his beekeeper buddies over and when he saw all the duckweed, he told him how much he spent to buy it to feed his fish. He has a small pond where he raises fish to eat. Of course, my husband, instead of offering to sell him all he wanted, offered to let him come and fill as many buckets as he wanted. :dono I'm thinking, sell it for less than he is paying for now, let him fill his own buckets and then give me the money for the squirrels. :dono :dono :dono

I may have to advertise duckweed for sale and take this operation over!

[mpetys]

Ok, I know this has nothing to do with feeding our squirrels but I just had to post. Look at this cage that was recently donated. It does have 1" bar spacing. I know it is recommended to use 1/2" or less but I also know there are some that use the Ferret Nation cages. What are everyone's thoughts on this. I can line it with 1/2" wire on the inside if necessary. I thought about putting two of my NR's, who I think will get along, in it so that I can have their cages to use for rehab babies.

[mpetys]

I'm hysterical over here at the thought of anyone PLANTING dandelions -- only because up here they are the ultimate weed that every gardener hates :pissed:bash:frustratedx:icon_devil. Landscapers charge an extra fortune to pull out "crabgrass"..... Home Depot sells thousands of gallons of dandelion killer every spring.

...then there are the Bird of Paradise plants that grow like weeds in Southern California.....wild, untended, often on the side of a freeway........but, they sell for FIVE BUCKS per stalk at fancy NYC florists :rotfl.

I'm gonna get a business going, picking NY dandelions and charging the homeowners for it -- then sell 'em to my squirrelly friends down South. :D



Well, until you get your dandelion business going, I found some seeds on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dandelion-100-seeds-Edible-Medicinal-Ornamental-/250892759515?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6a5fb1db

And look here, Italian Dandelion seeds. I never knew there was such a thing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITALIKO-ROSSO-DANDELION-200-SEEDS-IMPORTED-ITALY-/190490959055?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5a255ccf

:jump :jump

[gs1]

i love dandelion.... (rabbits loved dandelion).....

it's not all equal....

the dandelion that's found in grocery stores is really chicory .... even though it's called dandelion ...even though it's called italian dandelion.... (at least in canada :D)

(if you root a piece and grow it to flower,the flower is blue )

I'd assume that the italian chicory seeds are the same....:)

to grow really good dandelion uproot a nice full plant (there's 2 type of 'garden' dandelion the yellow flat plant (probably adapted to escape lawn mowers and another fuller type ... (i wish i had photos) ....

anyway plant them in really soft and elevated ground ... (they're a root vege like carrots and parsley etc... so they appreciate being elevated and soft soil ....) it's also a good idea not to place them in full sun but at least half shade or more... (so they're more tender) ....

enjoy ... :D ... after 10 years i'm still trying to get the best dandelion ...

another thing... they love terracotta pots...as long as they're sitting in a saucer to make sure they've got plenty of water.... (so you can dig them and pot them in terracotta)

(not as good with plastic pots...although self watering pots are a good pot if they're grown from seedlings .... not as good if you dig them and then plant .... )

all that aside ... plant dandelion ...and chicory ... they're both good :thumbsup

(edit: that dandelion sold by seeds is nice!...it looks really promising.... a full grown dandelion plant will look something like a lettuce head ... romaine etc... long leaves and lush ... )


edit: michelle i'd love to see you grow it in your earth boxes.... it should be gorgeous..... i hope you do ....

[gs1]

I'm hysterical over here at the thought of anyone PLANTING dandelions -- only because up here they are the ultimate weed that every gardener hates :pissed:bash:frustratedx:icon_devil. Landscapers charge an extra fortune to pull out "crabgrass"..... Home Depot sells thousands of gallons of dandelion killer every spring.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]South. :D




well the strange thing is .... dandelion is a liver cleanser ... it's really good for the blood and the liver.... it's very prized in europe.... for people to eat.....

and yet here in north american we drench ourselves and our gardens/lawns in herbicides....

then we get liver cancer.....

then we take dandelion root powder from the health food stores to help ....

but if we just ate the dandelion leaves/roots in the first place...we wouldn't be getting as much cancer as we are now... (not that cancer hasn't always being part of our history)

:dono

[Skul]

well the strange thing is .... dandelion is a liver cleanser ... it's really good for the blood and the liver.... it's very prized in europe.... for people to eat.....

and yet here in north american we drench ourselves and our gardens/lawns in herbicides....

then we get liver cancer.....

then we take dandelion root powder from the health food stores to help ....

but if we just ate the dandelion leaves/roots in the first place...we wouldn't be getting as much cancer as we are now... (not that cancer hasn't always being part of our history)

:dono
Well, that explains it.
Always wondered why I had the urge to graze in the front yard.:poke

[urban explorer]

Hi

i live in the uk and have four squirrels that come into my garden all the time. I am conducting an experiment in which i am trying to entice nature into the garden and try and get squirrels and birds to cooperate. I would love some advice on anything i can do and also what else shall i feed them. At the moment its mainly peanuts. ps my blog is www.thruthespyglass.blogspot.com

cheers:thankyou

[mpetys]

Well, that explains it.
Always wondered why I had the urge to graze in the front yard.:poke
:jump :jump

[astra]

Hi

i live in the uk and have four squirrels that come into my garden all the time. I am conducting an experiment in which i am trying to entice nature into the garden and try and get squirrels and birds to cooperate. I would love some advice on anything i can do and also what else shall i feed them. At the moment its mainly peanuts. ps my blog is www.thruthespyglass.blogspot.com

cheers:thankyou
Hi and Welcome!

THat's interesting. What do you mean by "cooperate"? How would birds and squirrels cooperate?

You can give wild squirrels all shelled nuts: almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans, peeled apple slices (no pits), avocado slices (no pit, no skin - toxic), grapes. Sunflower seeds and corn - only very sparingly.
I do not know what you have available in UK, but in North American some people buy rodent blocks for rats and mice (Kaytee forty diet [blue bag], Mazuri, Harlan Teklad, Zupreem monkey biscuits) - they soak the blocks in nut butter (almond, peanut) and give to squirrels. Perhaps, you can find an equivalent in the UK, it has to be for rats and mice, not hamsters and other rodents.

Just be aware that if you give nuts and other stuff, they will go for nuts first.

[SquirrelCav]

Hi and Welcome!

THat's interesting. What do you mean by "cooperate"? How would birds and squirrels cooperate?

Our neighbor used to trap squirrels and "relocate" them to a forest somewhere else. We couldn't legally stop her, but we kept watch seven days a week, springing the trap when she wasn't looking and releasing any squirrels she did catch before she could "deport" them.

One day 4S was working in the kitchen when a bluejay started flying by the dining room window again and again. The bird was obviously extremely agitated and after a minute 4S thought, "The trap!"

She ran outside and the bluejay immediately flew to the top of the fence separating our yards. There was another bluejay already sitting there already and both birds looked at 4S and then down at the spot in the neighbor's yard where the trap would usually be set. Sure enough, one of our young wild squirrels, Goldie, was caught and his sister, Boogie, was frantically running up and down the tree above him.

Anyway, 4S let him go and both squirrels ran up the tree, and Goldie laid down on a branch crying for a good five minutes with Boogie hugging him. The blujays flew away.

Birds, squirrels, and humans can cooperate :jump

[island rehabber]

Our neighbor used to trap squirrels and "relocate" them to a forest somewhere else. We couldn't legally stop her, but we kept watch seven days a week, springing the trap when she wasn't looking and releasing any squirrels she did catch before she could "deport" them.

One day 4S was working in the kitchen when a bluejay started flying by the dining room window again and again. The bird was obviously extremely agitated and after a minute 4S thought, "The trap!"

She ran outside and the bluejay immediately flew to the top of the fence separating our yards. There was another bluejay already sitting there already and both birds looked at 4S and then down at the spot in the neighbor's yard where the trap would usually be set. Sure enough, one of our young wild squirrels, Goldie, was caught and his sister, Boogie, was frantically running up and down the tree above him.

Anyway, 4S let him go and both squirrels ran up the tree, and Goldie laid down on a branch crying for a good five minutes with Boogie hugging him. The blujays flew away.

Birds, squirrels, and humans can cooperate :jump

:goodpost :bowdown

[astra]

Our neighbor used to trap squirrels and "relocate" them to a forest somewhere else. We couldn't legally stop her, but we kept watch seven days a week, springing the trap when she wasn't looking and releasing any squirrels she did catch before she could "deport" them.

One day 4S was working in the kitchen when a bluejay started flying by the dining room window again and again. The bird was obviously extremely agitated and after a minute 4S thought, "The trap!"

She ran outside and the bluejay immediately flew to the top of the fence separating our yards. There was another bluejay already sitting there already and both birds looked at 4S and then down at the spot in the neighbor's yard where the trap would usually be set. Sure enough, one of our young wild squirrels, Goldie, was caught and his sister, Boogie, was frantically running up and down the tree above him.

Anyway, 4S let him go and both squirrels ran up the tree, and Goldie laid down on a branch crying for a good five minutes with Boogie hugging him. The blujays flew away.

Birds, squirrels, and humans can cooperate :jump

what a great story! Thanks for sharing!:) :thumbsup

[justplainnutz]

What do you mean by "cooperate"? How would birds and squirrels cooperate?

I've always heard that birds and squirrels work together to warn each other of predators. But this is the first time I've heard of birds going for help to rescue squirrels. I recently saw an amazing documentary on the problem-solving skills & social culture of crows and I'm starting to think that the term "bird brain" is a horrible misnomer.

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Our neighbor used to trap squirrels and "relocate" them to a forest somewhere else. We couldn't legally stop her, but we kept watch seven days a week, springing the trap when she wasn't looking and releasing any squirrels she did catch before she could "deport" them.

One day 4S was working in the kitchen when a bluejay started flying by the dining room window again and again. The bird was obviously extremely agitated and after a minute 4S thought, "The trap!"

She ran outside and the bluejay immediately flew to the top of the fence separating our yards. There was another bluejay already sitting there already and both birds looked at 4S and then down at the spot in the neighbor's yard where the trap would usually be set. Sure enough, one of our young wild squirrels, Goldie, was caught and his sister, Boogie, was frantically running up and down the tree above him.

Anyway, 4S let him go and both squirrels ran up the tree, and Goldie laid down on a branch crying for a good five minutes with Boogie hugging him. The blujays flew away.

Birds, squirrels, and humans can cooperate :jump

WOW:cool:

[mpetys]

well the strange thing is .... dandelion is a liver cleanser ... it's really good for the blood and the liver.... it's very prized in europe.... for people to eat.....

and yet here in north american we drench ourselves and our gardens/lawns in herbicides....

then we get liver cancer.....

then we take dandelion root powder from the health food stores to help ....

but if we just ate the dandelion leaves/roots in the first place...we wouldn't be getting as much cancer as we are now... (not that cancer hasn't always being part of our history)

:dono


We humans have become pretty silly haven't we?

[jo_schmoe]

well the strange thing is .... dandelion is a liver cleanser ... it's really good for the blood and the liver.... it's very prized in europe.... for people to eat.....

and yet here in north american we drench ourselves and our gardens/lawns in herbicides....

then we get liver cancer.....

then we take dandelion root powder from the health food stores to help ....

but if we just ate the dandelion leaves/roots in the first place...we wouldn't be getting as much cancer as we are now... (not that cancer hasn't always being part of our history)

:dono
WHOA!! GREAT POST!!! I apologize gs1.....things got off topic and I totally missed your post!!! :thumbsup :bowdown

[jo_schmoe]

Ok...got a question.....
Has anyone else noticed that when fresh branches are given in the winter.....they are DEVOURED!!!! My guys get fresh branches every other day throughout the year....but it seems they love them the most leafless and frozen. LOL. Do the trees generate extra nutrition during the winter?? Is sap production high at during winter months?? :dono

[mpetys]

Ok...got a question.....
Has anyone else noticed that when fresh branches are given in the winter.....they are DEVOURED!!!! My guys get fresh branches every other day throughout the year....but it seems they love them the most leafless and frozen. LOL. Do the trees generate extra nutrition during the winter?? Is sap
production high at during winter months?? :dono

FROZEN branches? Can't help you there. Good question for you folks that live in area with "real" winter temps!

I have noticed that my NR's seem to eat less with the cooler temps. Maybe I need to mix it up a it for them and change their veggies a it more for winter?

[Rhapsody]

Nope ... I order them online from thecraftyrat.com
I can send you the link if you need.You can order HT blocks off Ebay for a much lower price than what CraftyRat sells them for...... I know this as I have ordered from both.

[island rehabber]

You can order HT blocks off Ebay for a much lower price than what CraftyRat sells them for...... I know this as I have ordered from both.

Good info :thankyou! I would never have thought to look for rodent blocks on Ebay.

[Arwen's Mom]

this has been an entertaining thread! From eating dandelions (my neighbors hate me cause I refuse to kill my lovely yellow flowers, my gliders, rabbit and myself like to eat them)
to duckweed
to animals and humans cooperating
this has been fun!

Yes humans are basically silly (referring to the dandelion dilemma here)
Yes animals will help each other, they really are more...humane...than we are sometimes
As for the branches, it usually takes cold then a warm spell to make sap flow so they may be devouring them for that reason.

[mpetys]

I just want to throw some information concerning bird food out there. When the term “bird food” is used in this context, it is Zupreem’s pelleted diet that is being referenced.

Like other animal foods, parrot diets can be divided into a couple camps – one that “looks” good and appears to be stuff they would like – a mix of nutritionally worthless seeds and corn and crap that is as bad for a bird as it is for a squirrel but “seems” intuitively right, and the pelleted diets that are the equivalent of our “blocks.” The popular seed stuff took quite a hit once people started to become more savvy about their parrots’ diet, and in self defense, they started adding “vitamins and minerals” which consisted almost literally of dumping vitamin powder in the bag and shaking it. Since Vitamin A is incredibly cheap, guess which vitamin it mostly consisted of?

But the pelleted diets tried to more closely hew to the actual needs of the animals. Do you know what is one of the most popular foods for larger parrots? Zupreem monkey biscuits – parrot people have been feeding them a lot longer than rehabbers have been using them. In fact you can sometimes purchase them at parrot sites for less than the rat and rehab sites sell them. They are popular because the nutrition in them is very close to what birds ACTUALLY need. Without resorting to industrial espionage, I doubt I could prove this, but I would not be surprised if the only difference between Zupreem monkey biscuits and Zupreme Avian Maintenance is the SIZE of the food pieces…So like all rat foods are not the same, all “bird food” is not the same. I do know a little about this; my oldest parrot has been with me for 25 years, and like every other animal n my care, I have done a LOT of reading and research on how to keep them in optimal health.


I have been communicating with the Zupreem folks and have finally received some information from them concerning the Zupreem Fruit Blend pellets that I have been feeding my squirrels. It looks like Crittermom was right with her speculation above. I received the following via email from Zupreem:

Dear Michele,Thank you so much for your patience while I worked with Dr. Huffaker for a response to your email. Please see below:

ZuPreem FruitBlend is formulated and sold as an avian diet. Primate Dry Diet is formulated and sold for primates. That said, they should be adequate for adult squirrels. The calcium and phosphorus levels are lower than some of the rodent diets so if that is a concern, it should be monitored. Some key nutrient levels are listed below. I’ve included some of those linked to bone health and metabolism. Let me know if Michele has additional questions. And let her know we welcome her feedback on the products.

Dr. Lyn

Below are the analysis they sent for the ZuPreem FruitBlend diet as well as the ZuPreem Primate Dry Diet. I have never used the Primate Dry diet so I don't know how well squirrels like them but I know that my guys go nuts for the FruitBlend pellets. My released squirrels still come back to their open release unit, not for the salad I still make for them but for the FruitBlend pellets and some of the Mazuri rat blocks as I leave them some of those as well. They normally do not get eaten until the FruitBlend pellets have disappeared!

I have another more in-depth analysis they prepared for the FruitBlend. I will post it when I can find it.

[Scooterzmom]

You can order HT blocks off Ebay for a much lower price than what CraftyRat sells them for...... I know this as I have ordered from both.

My concern with ordering them from ebay would be whether they're expired already or not. No real way to check from a private seller, I would fear.

[Charley Chuckles]

I have been communicating with the Zupreem folks and have finally received some information from them concerning the Zupreem Fruit Blend pellets that I have been feeding my squirrels. It looks like Crittermom was right with her speculation above. I received the following via email from Zupreem:

Dear Michele,Thank you so much for your patience while I worked with Dr. Huffaker for a response to your email. Please see below:

ZuPreem FruitBlend is formulated and sold as an avian diet. Primate Dry Diet is formulated and sold for primates. That said, they should be adequate for adult squirrels. The calcium and phosphorus levels are lower than some of the rodent diets so if that is a concern, it should be monitored. Some key nutrient levels are listed below. I’ve included some of those linked to bone health and metabolism. Let me know if Michele has additional questions. And let her know we welcome her feedback on the products.

Dr. Lyn

Below are the analysis they sent for the ZuPreem FruitBlend diet as well as the ZuPreem Primate Dry Diet. I have never used the Primate Dry diet so I don't know how well squirrels like them but I know that my guys go nuts for the FruitBlend pellets. My released squirrels still come back to their open release unit, not for the salad I still make for them but for the FruitBlend pellets and some of the Mazuri rat blocks as I leave them some of those as well. They normally do not get eaten until the FruitBlend pellets have disappeared!

I have another more in-depth analysis they prepared for the FruitBlend. I will post it when I can find it.
I use the Zupreen bird fruit flavored/can't say they eat a lot of it but I offer it daily....do you think the primate may be better :thinking I wonder if Petco has it which is where I get the other :dono maybe I will try both and I will have to check which rat blocks I use/ I never see CC eat one but my other NR seems to .....thanks for the info I am always looking for new food items that are healthier than what I am already doing and to add to what I use :thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

can I have the email address used to communicate with these people?
I have several questions myself that I would like answered...
questions that have not been addressed at all.
THank you, posting that addy here will be wonderful.:thumbsup

[Charley Chuckles]

can I have the email address used to communicate with these people?
I have several questions myself that I would like answered...
questions that have not been addressed at all.
THank you, posting that addy here will be wonderful.:thumbsup
:wave123 Jackie ...just got my bag out her is the info for ZuPreem.....I think this is what you were needing:thinking ....and see ya Saturday :jump :D

1-800-345-4767
e-mail: customercare@zupreem.com

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thankyou abby!

[pappy1264]

I have ordered HT off ebay, they have the sticker on them with all the info, inc. the expiration date.

[aplmak]

Hey Pappy!!! How's Lil Peanut doing?? Ready for release??

Aplmak

[mpetys]

I use the Zupreen bird fruit flavored/can't say they eat a lot of it but I offer it daily....do you think the primate may be better :thinking I wonder if Petco has it which is where I get the other :dono maybe I will try both and I will have to check which rat blocks I use/ I never see CC eat one but my other NR seems to .....thanks for the info I am always looking for new food items that are healthier than what I am already doing and to add to what I use :thumbsup

I have never tried the primate diet. I would like to get some as I like to offer them a variety to choose from. I have never seen the primate anywhere but Chris' Squirrels and More (www.squirrelsandmore.com). Others may know of additional places to find it.

One rehabber that I release for, puts her squirrels on the Mazuri Ovals early on and that is what they eat! Of course, now that they are here with me, I give them both the Mazuri rat blocks and the ZuPreem fruit blend pellets. I was paying something like $7 or $8 dollars for a 3 pound bag of the Mazuri rat blocks at PetsMart. Someone, early in this thread told me aout the Mazuri Ovals that are sold in a 50 bag at feed stores. I found them at my feed store for $24 per bag. What a savings, especially when I have 27 squirrels overwintering and three NR's.

Have you tried the Veggie Blend pellets? Mine love those as well. They also make a nut blend but these squirrels do not care for it as much. It is as if they are saying, "who do you think you are fooling? These are not nuts!"