Adult Squirrel - teeth loose

[sej6110]

I successfully raised my squirrel, Ralph, from infancy (2 weeks) last year. I released him in April this year at about 9-10 months of age. He would now be approximately 1.5 years old. I leave food and water for him every day, and see/interact with him about once a week since his release. He still lets me pet him, although he is a little more "squirrelly" each time! Overall, he is a happy, healthy squirrel living on his own in the wild for 7 months.

I saw him yesterday and everything seemed fine. I was surprised to see him again today. Normally I bring out some peeled nuts as a treat to give to him. Today, his upper teeth looked they were hanging out of his mouth..like they were very "loose." He could barey chew the nuts - or anything, for that matter..it was like his teeth were wiggling all over the place. I was able to bring him inside to take a better look. He tried chewing a piece of apple and I saw a little blood get on the piece.

I think he may have fallen and knocked his teeth loose. He was very hungry and determined to eat, so I used a food processor to make a pulp of nuts, as well as apples. He was frustrated, but ate until full and then wanted to go back outside; I didn't know what else to do so I released him again. I called a fellow rehabber, as well as 2 vets, but nobody knew what to do or what could be the problem.

I read some other threads...and worry if he has developed maloclusion? I'm not sure what the proper length of his teeth should be - ? I find this diagnosis hard to believe since he has had endless access to chewing materials in the wild. Should his teeth be "loose"? Could he have an injury? If so, is there anything I can do other than switching him to soft food?

If you have ANY clue what is going on, PLEASE keep in touch. Thanks!!
Sarah

[astra]

could you post photos?...
someone might have to help you with that.

if he does have teeth problems, most likely, he needs to be re-captured and have his teeth trimmed.
Depending on how his teeth grow again, he can be either released or, maybe, become a NR.

Sometimes, if they fall face first or get a hit in the teeth, teeth can become maloccluded, sometimes temporarily, other times permanently.

If you could post pics at all, that will be very helpful

[CritterMom]

Astra, I know they sort of "float" in the jaw; they aren't locked in place like our teeth but have some flex to assist in holding nuts. If these have been hit hard enough to make them wobble, would they be able to tighten back up in the jaw with captivity and a liquid/soft diet ?

[astra]

Astra, I know they sort of "float" in the jaw; they aren't locked in place like our teeth but have some flex to assist in holding nuts. If these have been hit hard enough to make them wobble, would they be able to tighten back up in the jaw with captivity and a liquid/soft diet ?
yes, CrM, I remember about the "float";-). I would assume that since they were fine from the start, they have a good chance of straightening up in captivity with soft foods.
I think, if he keeps trying to chew hard foods, he might be further damaging them or not allowing them to heal correctly. I'd think that in captivity, with soft foods and teeth trimming as needed they could go back to normal.
Of course, I am no expert, just trying to use some common sense here and what I remember reading.
I do remember reading here in some older threads how once maloccluded teeth straightened out - but the squirrel was in captivity, with regular teeth trimming and soft monitored diet.
Trimming them and keeping stress and pressure off them while they heal seem to allow them to heal correctly.

:thinking

[sej6110]

Thank you both for the speedy reply!

I will be monitoring him closely (when he comes back around...which I hope will be tomorrow)...and will try to snap some photos and/or videos.

Capturing him again would be a matter of luck and timing, as he has been living in the wild for awhile now. But I think he will be hanging around more if he continues to have these problems. I can keep him caged to monitor him, but don't want to stress him out unnecessarily. For now, I've left some of the processed nuts and apple outside for him. Hopefully this will keep him coming around so I can continue to check on him.

I'm almost certain he had an injury to the face, because yesterday he was eating just fine....but I also worry his teeth might be too long. They looked about 1/8" - 1/4" long. Is this good?

Hoping the problem fixes itself...but trying to do my part to help in the meantime...

Thanks again...

[sej6110]

Just wanted to post an update...

I saw Ralph today for the first time since I saw his teeth were loose (last Friday). His teeth are now completely gone. I'm assuming they fell out on their own. I gave him a shelled walnut (which he normally loves) and he couldn't do anything with it. As I have been doing for the past week, I put some nuts in a food processor to make a powder, and he was licking it up by the fistful. He seemed very hungry and looks like he has lost some weight.

Good news is that he is coming back to me for help. But I am otherwise very sad and very concerned for his well-being longterm. I know that he will never be able to crack a nut on his own again! I am also worried about how it will affect the growth of his lower teeth. Will they grow too long if he isn't using them?

Thanks..

[astra]

that's not good for a wild squirrel

1) teeth are their weapon. Without teeth they have no way of defending themselves, whether from a predator, or from a bully, or from other hormonal squirrels during mating seasons

2) without all teeth he cannot eat a lot of wild foods, esp. tree barks, acorns, roots etc etc, which means that, most likely, during winters when no "softer" foods are available, he may end up starving to death (or get sick from malnutrition and die).
Although, we cannot know what they wild menu is like exactly, we can make an educated guess and safely assume that hard foods do constitute a portion of their total food intake large enough to make the teeth absence quite alarming.
They also use teeth to make their nests (and tree holes) - something he will not be able to do now.

3) most likely, his lower teeth will grow too long, will end up piercing his soft palate which will result in a potentially fatal injury (not so long ago i remember reading about a squirrel with a puncture wound in her nasal cavity resulted from overgrown bottom teeth: unending respiratory illnesses followed, even some sort of pneumonia like stuff, and, of course, discomfort and pain)

With teeth as bad as that, I am afraid he has become a NR.

[sej6110]

Thanks for the reply...

I came across another TSB post about teeth falling out: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11601

Seems like that squirrel's teeth ended up growing back?! I also didn't realize squirrels had molars? Everyone on the thread agreed watching out for the lowers..

NR meaning non-release? Can you please point me to references that could help? I am in total shock that he has gone from completely independent to completely dependent. Of course, I will do anything I can to help him!

[momma2boo]

If you're looking for a soft food to feed him until his teeth firm back up you can try Boo Balls.

Here is the recipe and instructions for my Boo Balls:

There have been a couple of changes. I used to use Kaytee and HT. I now only use Harlan Teklad. I also alternate the type of nuts I use to keep my squirrels from becoming bored. I use almonds, pecans, or sometimes I mix a bit of waltnuts in with one of the others.

Ingredients:

50 grams rodent block (crushed to a fine powder) I use Harlan Teklad 2018.

50 grams powdered Fox Valley squirrel formula. I use 32/40.

50 grams crushed nuts. I NEVER use peanuts.

3 capsules of Multidolphilus.

20 grams "organic" coconut oil (melted) (I have cut back to 10 g)

1 jar (approximately 113 grams) of Earth's Best Organic baby food fruit (I use apples and plums)

Directions for mixing:

Mix dry ingredients together well (including the multidolphilus powder from inside the capsules).

Mix organic baby food fruit in to your dry ingredients until well blended. It will seem very wet.

Mix coconut oil into the mixture until well blended.

Put in the refrigerator for a few hours (Overnight is even better). This lets it set up. It softens/moistens the rodent block and dissolves the FV.

Once you are ready to serve it take out about a 1/2 tsp (5 grams or so) of the mixture and roll is in your hands but not so much that it will melt the coconut oil. Give it to your squirrel.

My squirrels will eat more or less depending on the time of year and the weather that is coming. The colder the weather the more they eat. It's as if they know that it's time to pack on the extra weight for winter. In the spring they begin to eat less ... essentially they put themselves on a diet and drop some of their bulk from winter.

[astra]

Thanks for the reply...

I came across another TSB post about teeth falling out: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11601

Seems like that squirrel's teeth ended up growing back?! I also didn't realize squirrels had molars? Everyone on the thread agreed watching out for the lowers..

NR meaning non-release? Can you please point me to references that could help? I am in total shock that he has gone from completely independent to completely dependent. Of course, I will do anything I can to help him!
yes, NR - non releasable...
it's hard to tell.
yes, often teeth do grow back (and, sometimes, they don't - depends on how he lost them: if they just broke off or did they end up being "pulled" somehow, or the roots got damaged otherwise)
If they do grow back, they might end up growing incorrectly again... although, sometimes, they grow straight - hard to tell until they start growing up

yes, they have molars that they can use to chew, but they need their front teeth for biting, for gripping (at a predator, for instance), for ripping the bark. Molars can be used for food that's already small enough to be put in the mouth, not for ripping some tree bark.
A lot of toothless NRs still use their molars to chew food that has already been cut up for them into manageable chunks (one of Jackie's miracles, for example).

I am not sure what you mean by references....
references to toothless squirrels?... quite a few to remember off the top of my head: def. Jackie's, mpetys' Tina that passed away just recently, Rhapsody's Marven who had his teeth removed...

References for what to do?...
as far as I know, squirrels with recurring teeth problems are kept as NR (i remember reading about an isolated case of a toothless squirrel release, but... it was just that particular rehabber's judgement call and a questionable call at that, because of some of the reasons I mentioned in one of the above posts).
I firmly believe that squirrels with teeth problems should not be released.
Teeth is everything for them - their weapon, their tool for food.
Just as you noticed he looks like he lost weight and he should have gained weight by now because there is winter ahead and all animals fatten up for the cold food-scarce-winter season.

I am very sorry, for both of you: for this poor fuzzer because teeth problems are serious problems for wilds, and for you because you are trying to help him and are so concerned...
and these are no easy decisions...:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

I am sure, people opinions might vary on this (like that one rehabber how "experimented" releasing a toothless squirrel),
but if you ask me, I would capture him now and overwinter him, letting his teeth grow back and watching the lowers (that might end up needing trimming) so that they do not puncture his soft palate, and watch how his upper teeth grow, and depending on what his teeth situation is by the Spring, it will be clear whether he is to be released back, or become an NR.
While you overwinter him, you can provide soft and cut-up food.
sorry, this is hard...

[sej6110]

Thank you for the Boo Balls recipe, momma2boo! I will try them as soon as can get all of the ingredients together...

Astra, thank you so much for the advice. I can only hope that the teeth will eventually grow back. But I do agree that he needs protection and monitoring to make sure he is safe and well fed in the meantime. I don't think it will be a problem to recapture him. I will actually be moving to a larger piece of property about 25 miles away in a month...so it may be for the best that I overwinter him and take him with me...monitor his recovery...and decide if he can be released there in the spring. This has been very tough for me, because I was so proud of his independence before! Again, I'm just very glad he's coming back to me for help...

Thanks again to both of you!

[mpetys]

Also, just so you know, you do not have to completely grind his walnuts for him. Because he does have molars, you can cut them into small bite size pieces that he can pick up and put in his mouth and chew with his molars. I recently had a squirrel that had her teeth removed and she enjoyed nothing more than being able to eat like a real squirrel; picking her food up, putting it in her mouth and chewing. You could fix him a dish of veggies like squash, cucumbers, carrots, avocado etc and cube them for him. He will figure it out. I don't mean this in place of the boo balls but in addition to. Try to keep him happy with variety.

I agree with Astra that it would be a good idea to bring him in and overwinter him so you can observe his teeth, when the bottoms might need trimming, how often and to see if the uppers grow back in. Good luck.

[sej6110]

Thanks for the tips!

I put out a mix of processed and broken up nuts and cut up apples. Going to the store later to pick up the other fruit mentioned. I also ordered the ingredients for the Boo Balls (found on Amazon and Henry's Healthy Pets).

Just waiting for him to stop by again...

[Jackie in Tampa]

:wave123 You are getting great advise..:thumbsup
I wanted to clarify the moving teeth...
Uppers DO NOT MOVE, they are stable and meant to secure/hold.
The lowers do move forward and backward, side to side in a V to carry large foods,
lowers are independant of each other...

Most times the teeth are only broke off, sqs have endless growing incisors.
Unless the impact has damaged the root, they should emerge.
If the jaw has been injured, the sq may have maloclussion or permanently toothless.:shakehead
sending good vibes!

[sej6110]

Thanks for the update Jackie!

Yes, when his upper teeth were moving (before falling out), it looked very unusual, and I did not think it was normal. I am hoping that they are just broken and will re-emerge!!!!! Will keep you all posted...

[astra]

thanks for the info, Jackie!

Sej - I hope you can trap him:grouphug