suddenly so lethargic

[KathleenNYC]

We took Wort to the Vet yesterday, he was suddenly so lethargic. It was really frightening; of course when we got there he was so frightened that there were no symptoms of lethargy. The doctor checked him and said there is nothing appearing to be neurological, she felt him all over, fiddled with his legs and then gave him IV fluids with the b vitamins; when we got home he was so perky and back to himself.
They also did a stool test, because he was cooperative and pooped on the table, he has worms and we have started the meds this morning.
This morning he was fine and then late this afternoon lethargic again, so we gave him some FV and tried water which he didn’t want. He seemed to perk up again for a little while and then wanted to sleep.
He is about 8/9 weeks 240grams on his FV formula (15cc at 6, 12, 6 and 12.)with ultra boost, eating veggies and loves his henrys blocks. However, with his bad vision he can’t find his water by himself. I don’t know what is wrong with him and now I am worried again!

I have read about MBD, he gets only filtered sunllight; but is running and climbing just fine. Should I give him calcium and how much? I am thinking maybe it can’t hurt.

Could it be that this apartment is just too hot? I mean it is hot, we have turned off the radiators, now today we opened the windows and I am wearing shorts and a tee-shirt as I write.
He was fine the day before yesterday, climbing and scruffing with us, and as playful as ever. I just dont know what to do.

[astra]

We took Wort to the Vet yesterday, he was suddenly so lethargic. It was really frightening; of course when we got there he was so frightened that there were no symptoms of lethargy. The doctor checked him and said there is nothing appearing to be neurological, she felt him all over, fiddled with his legs and then gave him IV fluids with the b vitamins; when we got home he was so perky and back to himself.
They also did a stool test, because he was cooperative and pooped on the table, he has worms and we have started the meds this morning.
This morning he was fine and then late this afternoon lethargic again, so we gave him some FV and tried water which he didn’t want. He seemed to perk up again for a little while and then wanted to sleep.
He is about 8/9 weeks 240grams on his FV formula (15cc at 6, 12, 6 and 12.)with ultra boost, eating veggies and loves his henrys blocks. However, with his bad vision he can’t find his water by himself. I don’t know what is wrong with him and now I am worried again!

I have read about MBD, he gets only filtered sunllight; but is running and climbing just fine. Should I give him calcium and how much? I am thinking maybe it can’t hurt.

Could it be that this apartment is just too hot? I mean it is hot, we have turned off the radiators, now today we opened the windows and I am wearing shorts and a tee-shirt as I write.
He was fine the day before yesterday, climbing and scruffing with us, and as playful as ever. I just dont know what to do.
since he is getting his FV and HHBs regularly, he should not have MBD. While they are on formula they do not get MBD (at least, not that I know of).
They do not necessarily need sunlight all the time to be MBD-free. It's great if they get sunlight, but if their diet is correct, they should be MBD-free.

And if he drinks his formula, he is supposedly getting his "water", too...
I guess, you could put a water bottle in the cage for him.

It could be the worms found in the poop. Do you know what kind of worms?

As for heat, as far as I know they need to be overheated in order to be negatively affected by heat. Just warmer room temp should not really result in him feeling lethargic...

don't know...

let's wait for the exp. rehabbers to voice their thoughts:grouphug

[KathleenNYC]

Thanks, everything offered helps...

[CritterMom]

You say he can't find his water...and that he perked up after the sub-Q yesterday. May I suggest you give him either pedialyte or homemade rehydration solution (1 teaspoon salt; 3 Tablespoons sugar; 1 quart water), warmed, by syringe. Depending on how much he will take, offer it every hour for the next few and see if he improves. You may need to make other arrangements for water if he cannot find his bottle.

Pedialyte should not be given for more than 24 hours. After that point, if you need to you can add a little apple juice to plain water and syringe that to him.

[KathleenNYC]

II dont remember the name of the worms, but the med is panacur.

[Nancy in New York]

II dont remember the name of the worms, but the med is panacur.

Is he any more awake now?

[gs1]

:grouphug have no idea so cannot advise... dehydration makes them unable to digest properly and also tired ofcourse....

but i am worried too .....

i'm glad you've got a good vet... contacting flo won't hurt either....if she can take a physical look at him....

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

You say he can't find his water...and that he perked up after the sub-Q yesterday. May I suggest you give him either pedialyte or homemade rehydration solution (1 teaspoon salt; 3 Tablespoons sugar; 1 quart water), warmed, by syringe. Depending on how much he will take, offer it every hour for the next few and see if he improves. You may need to make other arrangements for water if he cannot find his bottle.

Pedialyte should not be given for more than 24 hours. After that point, if you need to you can add a little apple juice to plain water and syringe that to him.

Just wanted to make sure that you saw this post...:thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

I got a pm from KathleenNYC which she states: (I am posting this with her permission.)


Just went to wake him for his 6pm feeding, I had to pick him up to rouse him then he ate, but is now barely awake.

[KathleenNYC]

Yes it is plain tap water.

I have pedialyte power going to mix some up, he did take his formula at 6, then was very sleepy, now he is very jumpy, skid-dish.. not like him at all.

Called Flo she suggested putting back on the heating pad and in his tub instead of the cage.

[gs1]

maybe it's better to be giving pedialyte and making sure he's superhydrated....



omg...katherine....:grouphug i wish i knew what to say:grouphug


is it possible he's been into some kind of poison??? some plant or paint or chewing of something????


also don't let him stash any of his blocks...they're unsanitary and can mold....


i'm just grasping at straws ... :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[gs1]

and you drink the same water ..it's filtered etc...

i wish i had something to offer you .... :grouphug

[momma2boo]

What color is his urine?

[KathleenNYC]

he has a new hut and perch in his cage from petco, but the vet said they rarely see poisoning from pet stores...
I took it out.
he is behaving very strangely now like he is frightened, jumping and twitching.

[KathleenNYC]

urine seems clear and poop is solid.

[KathleenNYC]

yes we drink the same water.

[Nancy in New York]

urine seems clear and poop is solid.

Is there anyway you can get a short video?

[momma2boo]

he has a new hut and perch in his cage from petco, but the vet said they rarely see poisoning from pet stores...
I took it out.
he is behaving very strangely now like he is frightened, jumping and twitching.

Did you wash the hut before putting it in the cage? Most factories do not wash their material before sewing their products. There could be a pesticide on it.

[astra]

could it be the parasites?... i do not remember exactly, but I think some type of parasites does cause some lethargy or reduced activity... just do not remember where and when I read that (unless I am mistaking it for something else):dono :thinking

is there a way he could have hurt himself?... fell and hit his head or something?... just do not know what else to think of:dono

[KathleenNYC]

he cant find his water because he is definitely blind in one eye, it is gray like a cataract. on the side that had all of the contusions when he was found. I also believe he can only see limited in the other.
So I suppose he could have fallen, but the vet poked, stroked and felt him all over, and she fiddled with his legs too.

I washed everything, if there is mold on the wood perch ledge could that be like poison?

Could his mother have thrown him out of the nest because he was too week to survive? he just looks so healthy?

[Pierre]

It can't be dehydration or mbd since he's still on formula. Doesn't seem to be lack of nutrition due to the worms since he doesn't have diarrhea and has been eating. ???

A virus maybe? Spider bite? Maybe a bacterial infection? I'm guessing totally.

I would try keeping him hydrated with pedialyte and sugar water, molasses or syrup on his gums, and on heat in a smaller cage. Given that he had a lot of contusions and such when he was found, and has some vision issues, I'd assume it's neuro even if this wasn't apparent at the vet's office. Others here can advise best for neuro if it is.

[gs1]

sigh....

his blindness shouldn't stop him from finding things... like water...

but maybe he hasn't figured out the water bottle???

so if this is only dehydration it's one thing....

he could have parasites ... but would they have taken? 1 month to develop to this extent??? and if he does ... would they affect his co-ordination etc... are they in his brain possibly??? it's possible ofcourse ... like the racoon roundworm...

he could have been poisoned... it's rare ...

his mother could have abandoned him if he was blind or having problems before .....

he could have internal problems that are just showing up now....

at least we can agree his diet is optimal..100%.

:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

You don't have any sort of rat poison around do you?

[KathleenNYC]

No rat poison.

[KathleenNYC]

We got him when he was about 2/3 weeks. 153875
he has grown well.
this is the day before yesterday eating a pepper153876

and today153877

[lilidukes]

Does he hold his head tilted to one side any or all of the time???

[KathleenNYC]

yes, after hearing everyone's replies I am thinking it is the hut or the perch.
I am throwing everything in the cage out!!!

[KathleenNYC]

no head tilt. but I have noticed he tends to keep his gray eye toward me.

[Pierre]

Awww... he looks so sad. I would keep trying to push fluids to help flush his system. And some sugar on his gums. Hold and love him if he likes that. Keep him warm against you. :grouphug Poor baby.

[lilidukes]

The bad eye towards you is normal, not sure why. Head tilt is a sign of neuro.

Excessive heat will make them very lethargic. Was your place overly hot today?? Was he curled up or stretched out.

[CritterMom]

Give him full supportive care just like a baby. Get him some supplemental warmth, keep offering him hydration - he should not get MBD while on formula but if the formula is the only liquid he is getting and he only eats it every 6 hours, he certainly could need hydration. Keep him warm and quiet and if you can, stay near him so you can touch and stroke him - that contact helps.

[KathleenNYC]

loving he gets, I am afraid to put him in his box tonight, I don't want to let him out of my reach. he just wants to cuddle up, and then gets skid-ish and jumpy, shoots up to my neck and just sits.

[KathleenNYC]

he was curled up in his hut, but our apt is super hot, we are in shorts and now long sleeves, but only because he keeps startling.

[Nancy in New York]

I washed everything, if there is mold on the wood perch ledge could that be like poison?



Yes, he can get very sick from mold and even die. Does he chew on that?
If so keep pushing the fluids, and clean the mold up with bleach. Do not let him in it until it is completely cleaned and dry.

[Nancy in New York]

loving he gets, I am afraid to put him in his box tonight, I don't want to let him out of my reach. he just wants to cuddle up, and then gets skid-ish and jumpy, shoots up to my neck and just sits.

Can you call in sick tomorrow....I would stay with him all night....:)

[lilidukes]

Like my kids in the release cage during the summer when they are very hot they act a lot like what you are describing. Push the fluids, he might really enjoy some apple juice or a little fruit like grapes.

[lilidukes]

Can you call in sick tomorrow....I would stay with him all night....:)
:goodpost :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[KathleenNYC]

i think I will stay with him all night.
he just drank 3cc pedaylite, and is sleeping on my chest.
how long should I wait to offer more.

...I just bought the wood perch last week and can't help but wonder if that is making him sick. I threw it out tonight!

not sure it it means anything or if it is the worm medicine, but he is pooping a lot, all solid but a lot!

[Nancy in New York]

i think I will stay with him all night.
he just drank 3cc pedaylite, and is sleeping on my chest.
how long should I wait to offer more.

...I just bought the wood perch last week and can't help but wonder if that is making him sick. I threw it out tonight!

Give him about an hour and offer more.
Is that the wood that you said had mold on it?
Either way, yup I would get rid of it....:shakehead

[UDoWhat]

Give him full supportive care just like a baby. Get him some supplemental warmth, keep offering him hydration - he should not get MBD while on formula but if the formula is the only liquid he is getting and he only eats it every 6 hours, he certainly could need hydration. Keep him warm and quiet and if you can, stay near him so you can touch and stroke him - that contact helps.

I have read the thread and my first impression is either the mold or could he have been overdosed on the Panacur?? It sounds like a posioning situation. I am inclined to believe it is the mold. Like a myco or aflatoxin. The warm conditions in the room are ripe to grow these toxins. I would push fluids all night long. The mold on the perch sounds suspicious of a toxin. Do you think he may have licked the perch?? Or ingested the mold ??

Marty

[KathleenNYC]

I am assuming mold on the perch how would I know if there was it didn't smell like it but I am not sure... and yes he chewed it a lot.

Panacur started this morning got it from the vet yesterday when this first started, .5 cc very small syringe the vet gave us. It was his first visit to the vet.

he is sleeping on my chest and is putting off a lot of heat...

[gs1]

don't throw away the things you bought... you might want to make sure it's them before assuming ...cause we don't want to assume it's one thing and then be blind to others....

also if there's mold on there and it shows up ... in some kind of experiment you 've got a case for getting vet money out of the store....

but you did say you washed before giving to him?

don't use bleach if he's going to come into contact with it...it's hard to rinse off totally....

as for wood perch ...real wood?...sanded???

what we used to use was apple branches ... and i'd shave them off the top piece of bark... to bare wood and then sand .....

the apple must be unsprayed tree....

possibly anything for parrots would be good too... unsprayed and super strong etc....

:grouphug


also ...this could be a side effect of the panacur for him....

was anything used on him recently for fleas etc???mites...???

[UDoWhat]

loving he gets, I am afraid to put him in his box tonight, I don't want to let him out of my reach. he just wants to cuddle up, and then gets skid-ish and jumpy, shoots up to my neck and just sits.

Is this behavior new? When baby squirrels are having trouble breathing they sometimes try to climb high up on something. When did this start??

[KathleenNYC]

the vet said his breathing was fine yesterday, I don't hear clicking.

I am assuming he is getting jumpy when he has to relieve himself, he doesn't seem to want to do it on us (that's his usual behavior, not sure now though). he is really very gentle and minds his manners...

I am not sure of much just feeling very overwhelmed right now...

[Margie]

I am having the same problem with my little female red squirrel this evening. Last night she was zipping around and playing at warp speed, but didn't drink any formula for the first time. She is about 13-15 weeks. Not sure since one of the cats brought her to us during TS Lee. Of course her name is Stormy Lee. She has been very healthy and extremely active until tonight. I had to go shopping today and didn't go into the room to visit with her and let her out of her cage right away, as I usually do and I could hear her banging around in protest. She normally is let out of the cage for 6-8 hours in the back bedroom (we have cats) to get plenty of exercise and sunlight. When I got home and we went in to let her out and to play with her, she came out of the cage, but was very lethargic and uninterested in playing. She didn't want to get on my shoulder or be held which is very unusual. She just wanted to lay on the cat tree shelf. I watched her for a while and she kept stretching and yawning while stretched out flat on her stomach. At one time she lay over on her side and stretched her legs out straight. I have never seen her do this before. She has been on Hartz premium puppy replacement formula with extra calcium, and 8-1 Rat/Mouse blocks and Kaytee blocks, Parrot mix ( but I haven't seen her eat any of it. , with gray striped sunflower seeds. She gets a little bit of pecan at bedtime when it is time to go back in her cage. She sometimes gets little almond, or hazelnuts, and pinenuts. The only fresh food I've been able to get her to eat has been a bit of apple, but she takes the skin off. Just in case it is MBD, I gave her about 250 mg of a calcium tablet with vit D dissolved in water with a syringe. She barely fought me over it. Normally I wouldn't have been able to get a drop in her if she didn't want me to. Since she's been on the formula, 6-10 cc's daily up until yesterday, and what nuts she's been getting have been the ones with a higher calcium content, I'm not certain it's MBD . This is my first squirrel experience and I've been reading posts on this forum trying to learn as I go along. She does chew on a lot of plastic in the room, that I am surprised she finds. Mostly cat toys. I just hope she makes it through the night. There are no exotic animal vets around here. I'll give her more calcium later, just in case. Any thoughts?

[Nancy in New York]

I am having the same problem with my little female red squirrel this evening. Last night she was zipping around and playing at warp speed, but didn't drink any formula for the first time. She is about 13-15 weeks. Not sure since one of the cats brought her to us during TS Lee. Of course her name is Stormy Lee. She has been very healthy and extremely active until tonight. I had to go shopping today and didn't go into the room to visit with her and let her out of her cage right away, as I usually do and I could hear her banging around in protest. She normally is let out of the cage for 6-8 hours in the back bedroom (we have cats) to get plenty of exercise and sunlight. When I got home and we went in to let her out and to play with her, she came out of the cage, but was very lethargic and uninterested in playing. She didn't want to get on my shoulder or be held which is very unusual. She just wanted to lay on the cat tree shelf. I watched her for a while and she kept stretching and yawning while stretched out flat on her stomach. At one time she lay over on her side and stretched her legs out straight. I have never seen her do this before. She has been on Hartz premium puppy replacement formula with extra calcium, and 8-1 Rat/Mouse blocks and Kaytee blocks, Parrot mix ( but I haven't seen her eat any of it. , with gray striped sunflower seeds. She gets a little bit of pecan at bedtime when it is time to go back in her cage. She sometimes gets little almond, or hazelnuts, and pinenuts. The only fresh food I've been able to get her to eat has been a bit of apple, but she takes the skin off. Just in case it is MBD, I gave her about 250 mg of a calcium tablet with vit D dissolved in water with a syringe. She barely fought me over it. Normally I wouldn't have been able to get a drop in her if she didn't want me to. Since she's been on the formula, 6-10 cc's daily up until yesterday, and what nuts she's been getting have been the ones with a higher calcium content, I'm not certain it's MBD . This is my first squirrel experience and I've been reading posts on this forum trying to learn as I go along. She does chew on a lot of plastic in the room, that I am surprised she finds. Mostly cat toys. I just hope she makes it through the night. There are no exotic animal vets around here. I'll give her more calcium later, just in case. Any thoughts?

Hi Margie, is there anyway that you can start a thread about this in the emergency section.
I'm just afraid that people will get confused answering two different emergencies in the same thread....:thumbsup :)

[UDoWhat]

I am assuming mold on the perch how would I know if there was it didn't smell like it but I am not sure... and yes he chewed it a lot.

Panacur started this morning got it from the vet yesterday when this first started, .5 cc very small syringe the vet gave us. It was his first visit to the vet.

he is sleeping on my chest and is putting off a lot of heat...

I think I would start fluids every hour or more often. You want to keep his kidneys flushed as much as possible. Be very careful to go slowly and not aspirate him. I would use tap water or apple juice, even watered down juice.

I was just wondering if this climbing behavior was new or not. Maybe not new, huh? When you observe his breathing and chest movement, does it look steady and rhythmic. In other words does it look like it did a few weeks ago?? Does his heartbeat seem steady?

Marty

[UDoWhat]

Hi Margie, is there anyway that you can start a thread about this in the emergency section.
I'm just afraid that people will get confused answering two different emergencies in the same thread....:thumbsup :)

Hi Margie, Please do start a new thread for your baby one. I would, however, start the treatment for MBD. TSB sees these cases often and this seems like classic early MBD. We will check out and advise you in a new thread to avoid confusion on this thread. .

[KathleenNYC]

No not new, he runs around my son like he is a tree (he is 23, 6ft, 220lbs).

I am giving the pedaylite in a 3cc syringe slow, because with the pedaylite he is licking not suckling.
The FV he usually suckles like a fiend. At 6pm he was so lethargic I had to literally pick him up to rouse him, scared me really bad. Then as he awoke I tried feeding and he suckled the FV at 6pm slow at first then almost his normal greedy self; then was back to lethargic shortly after.
When awake his breathing is normal, no clicks or any sounds, although I think his breathing was a little slow when he is asleep, not sure though. Today it seems that sometimes his heart beat seems really rapid to me when he is awake, he is getting very skid-ish. He is usually pretty calm and very playful.
Then he curls up and wants to be under your shirt sleeping.

[Nancy in New York]

Did you give a little maple syrup or molasses on his gums to get the blood sugars up?
Kiss that little peanut for me....we are all praying really hard for this little one!:Love_Icon

[gs1]

Hi Margie, is there anyway that you can start a thread about this in the emergency section.
I'm just afraid that people will get confused answering two different emergencies in the same thread....:thumbsup :)



started it nancy.....



http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=700348#post700348

[UDoWhat]

This is odd behavior... even for a toxin of some kind. I would continue supportive care and fluids every 45 minutes or so. :grouphug Keep posting as you can to let us know what is happening.

Marty

[KathleenNYC]

I would say it has gotten up to about 80, we turned the radiators off, no thermostat.
No mucous in the poop, very firm and formed, but a lot of it.
No sign of vomiting.
No crackling, popping or breathing problems.
I think it is bouncing back slowly, but his fur makes it difficult. Not sure if it is just staying pinched.
My son is trying more pedaylite now, it has been about an hour. But he is refusing...

[KathleenNYC]

Thanks Marty, I am just so worried about him...
I will keep posting, I am sure we will be up all night, couldnt sleep if I wanted too...

[Nancy in New York]

Are you keeping him warm? You can offer him a rice buddy, just to see if he wants to be near the heat?
I agree with Marty, this is somewhat of a mystery....:dono

[KathleenNYC]

got 6cc's pedaylite in, he is really such a good baby.

[Pierre]

Excellent! Keep at it and yes, as Nancy said, keep him warm. Love and cuddle him. Kiss me for me too! :grouphug Praying for this little cutie.

[KathleenNYC]

Thank you everyone!!!!!
I think This would have given me Apoplexy, without you ALL!!!

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you everyone!!!!!
I think This would have given me Apoplexy, without you ALL!!!
:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[gs1]

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug
:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[UDoWhat]

I believe that touch is very important to these sweet babies. It lets them know you are near and they feel safe with you. So I would let him cuddle safe in your arms if he wants and needs to. Prayers for you and your baby. :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

Marty

[island rehabber]

If the apartment is 80* and the baby is on heat, he may very well have the beginnings of heat exhaustion. this can cause the erratic behavior you described. When I have little pinkies I don't let their container get over 85 degrees; this is an older baby and he certainly doesn't need to be THAT warm. I would consider NOT making him warmer -- but letting hin cool off a bit.

[cuteascnb]

sounds to me like he was chewing on something or ate something bad. I think u should offer the pedialyte every few hours...but i didnt recall u saying how old he is now...maybe i skipped that. PLS let us know how hes doing! Have u changed his foods? My fiance makes birds toys and I know that the wood and stuff they use is not treated with anything harmful...even the dyes are just food coloring...praying he will be ok!:grouphug

[KathleenNYC]

He is 8/9 weeks old.
We have been giving him pedaylite every hour; I switched him from my chest to his blanket in a pet carrying bag and had him in my bed. I was just so afraid I would fall asleep and hurt him. We just gave him some FV for his usual midnight feeding and have him back in his tub container, so he can move around; he just urinated and is moving around.
The apartment is much cooler now and hopefully won't heat up the same way again, we turned the radiators off and opened more windows.

Now the puzzle, is he sick and needs his heating pad or overheated and just his blanket in the bag. I guess we will check how he is sleeping in the tub, if he is sprawled out: back in the bag in my bed. Curled up: I will let him stay put.

And you are all right he loves to be held!!!

[gs1]

:grouphug

[KathleenNYC]

at 2 and 4 Patrick gave him pedalite and now at 6 When I went to the tub he is awake!!! I am going to give him his FV.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am having the same problem with my little female red squirrel this evening. Last night she was zipping around and playing at warp speed, but didn't drink any formula for the first time. She is about 13-15 weeks. Not sure since one of the cats brought her to us during TS Lee. Of course her name is Stormy Lee. She has been very healthy and extremely active until tonight. I had to go shopping today and didn't go into the room to visit with her and let her out of her cage right away, as I usually do and I could hear her banging around in protest. She normally is let out of the cage for 6-8 hours in the back bedroom (we have cats) to get plenty of exercise and sunlight. When I got home and we went in to let her out and to play with her, she came out of the cage, but was very lethargic and uninterested in playing. She didn't want to get on my shoulder or be held which is very unusual. She just wanted to lay on the cat tree shelf. I watched her for a while and she kept stretching and yawning while stretched out flat on her stomach. At one time she lay over on her side and stretched her legs out straight. I have never seen her do this before. She has been on Hartz premium puppy replacement formula with extra calcium, and 8-1 Rat/Mouse blocks and Kaytee blocks, Parrot mix ( but I haven't seen her eat any of it. , with gray striped sunflower seeds. She gets a little bit of pecan at bedtime when it is time to go back in her cage. She sometimes gets little almond, or hazelnuts, and pinenuts. The only fresh food I've been able to get her to eat has been a bit of apple, but she takes the skin off. Just in case it is MBD, I gave her about 250 mg of a calcium tablet with vit D dissolved in water with a syringe. She barely fought me over it. Normally I wouldn't have been able to get a drop in her if she didn't want me to. Since she's been on the formula, 6-10 cc's daily up until yesterday, and what nuts she's been getting have been the ones with a higher calcium content, I'm not certain it's MBD . This is my first squirrel experience and I've been reading posts on this forum trying to learn as I go along. She does chew on a lot of plastic in the room, that I am surprised she finds. Mostly cat toys. I just hope she makes it through the night. There are no exotic animal vets around here. I'll give her more calcium later, just in case. Any thoughts?
Hi...I type bad and always in a hurry, sorry, bare with me...
Can someone please post the Goats milk formula for Margie...
and she needs a thread in emergency please...
where are you in alabama?
I know a few peeps that maybe close enough to help/share...

The rat block you are using are not my favorite, nor the formula,
no seeds please{they are too high in phosphorus}
NO CALCIUM WITH VIT D..the ratios are all wrong and sqs can get toxic doses if not proper ratios...
I apologize for brief...
Marge needs a thread please...

[KathleenNYC]

Jackie,
Margie has a thread started here:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=700348#post700348

I hope her baby is ok !!!

Temporary Formula for Infant Squirrels – The Goat’s Milk Formula
http://www.thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29903

[KathleenNYC]

Put my hand in the tub to get him and he ran up my arm, usual behavior!!!, finished his FV, and he hung out on my shoulder as usual while I cleaned up syringes... (normal behavior) except he usually runs around me like a tree... but he is awake and hanging out.

Nibbling at me, usually does this when he is hungry. I am afraid to give him his veggies. Not sure if I should still continue just fluids. And I would like to wait until I get to the store, I want to replace everything he has been consuming the last couple of days...

Is it really bad to give him some apple this morning (comes with natures best wrapper), I know it should just be a treat. Don't want to start bad habbits with this RECOVARY!!!

I have put him in another tub, want to keep his bed clean and he urinated!!!

[lilidukes]

Good morning glad to hear he is acting more normal this am.

Since you are treating for worms you need to change out all of his bedding a couple times a day and sanitize his containers. Make sure your keeping your hands sanitized too. He can re infest himself.

Remember no more than 24 hrs of pedilyte. I don't think a little apple would hurt though I would not give him the peel. And no apple seeds.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Jackie,
Margie has a thread started here:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=700348#post700348

I hope her baby is ok !!!

Temporary Formula for Infant Squirrels – The Goat’s Milk Formula
http://www.thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29903

:thankyou TY KinNYC...will go there :thumbsup


Lili...I am behind the 8ball...what worm treatment please...

[KathleenNYC]

i am changing the bedding frequently (he has more sheets than we do), and have been washing with hot water. I will scrub out the tubs this morning with hot water, don't think I should use any disinfectants right now (or should I?), not sure what made him sick???.

We started the pedaylite last night, probably has been 12 hours, we can switch to the
[quote=CritterMom] homemade rehydration solution (1 teaspoon salt; 3 Tablespoons sugar; 1 quart water), warmed, by syringe. /quote]
this morning.

Jackie: Took him to the vet when this started day before yesterday, they tested his stool while we were there and found worms

(unrelated to the original reason for the visit...I think. Must have came home with the worms when we got him, because he has not been out of the house since then, and the only other pets are fish and turtles.);

he was doing better then it got really bad again lat night, from the posts we think maybe something in his cage made him sick? I dont remember the name of the worms, but the med is panacur. IMG/buttons/quote.gif (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=700243)

[island rehabber]

Kathleen, this is IMPORTANT:

The "hydration solution" recipe Critter Mom gave you is simply homemade Pedialyte. You cannot give him that any longer than 24 hours, either, so if he gets it for 12 more -- after the 12 hrs of Pedialyte -- that's fine, but not any longer. The homemade solution has the same high sodium content as Pedialyte and we cannot give that for longer than 1 day. Just wanted to clarify. :peace

Panacur is a strong de-wormer. I have known squirrels to have a reaction to it before, and thankfully they normally do not need to be de-wormed. I hope when this is out of his system he feels much better!

[KathleenNYC]

thanks IR, we will just finish the pedaylite this morning and watch him...

if he is not acting any better today I will take him back to the vet this afternoon. But he seems significantly better this morning, not normal but significantly better...

Just thinking, between the worms, his eye and this (i have read that weeks 8,9,10 can be touchy?), I cant help but wonder if mom did throw him out of the nest... natures way of survival...

[Nancy in New York]

Not sure if I asked you before, can you post photos...a video?
What is the container like?

One thing we have to remember is that this little one went to the vets because he was lethargic. Worms were found from a stool sample that the vet got, meds started yesterday morning (Monday 11/7)

The meds didn't cause the lethargy, could the worms??????:dono

[Jackie in Tampa]

yes worms cause lethargy NIN
like IR has said, panacur is wicked, but I have used it safely...
diluted formula can also be used as a hydrater{is that a word? it is now}:D
is tehre a possibility he has aspirated?

[KathleenNYC]

i posted photos yesterday. I will get some more this afternoon. cant seem to get video off my iphone... (but i will keep trying)

I really don't know if the worms can do that (haven't read much on it, been with him), I gave him his second dose this morning (supposed to be 1 time a day for 5 days at .5cc the vet gave us a tiny syringe) with the fv.

Don't think he aspirated ... but His breathing is good, the vet checked with a stethoscope, and no sounds yet we keep checking...

Unfortunately, I must go to work, network meeting, professional development day...DOE politics...
But, I am going to leave work after the morning session, at lunch and come home, that way if he needs the vet we can get there. Patrick is going to keep watch now... will post back later.
Thanks everyone!!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

sometimes the blue white eye can be a deficiency...
has it always been discolored..I skimmed the thread..I did see the pics...he is precious...
Good old listerine can be used as an anti bacterial wipe:thumbsup
Put in spray bottle for safe quick no rinse cleaner.

[KathleenNYC]

yes his eye was gray when it opened. We also question the vision in his other eye. brought him home at 2/3 weeks. been on FV and ultra boost as soon as it came. ("new born puppy formula" before that about 4 days)

He is the sweetest little guy!!! Very gentle and minds his manners too!
Will do with the Listerine!!! (wow that's a good one!)

[Jackie in Tampa]

Handle him lots...make sure he stays sweet!:D

You've found the best place worldwide for sq info...
these peeps know their stuff!:thumbsup
Good Hearts too...


Secondary Diarrhea


Diarrhea is sometimes reported by owners after giving Panacur to their pet. This is almost always due to the irritation that the worms themselves are causing in the gastrointestinal tract. If the diarrhea becomes severe or is bloody, call your veterinarian at once.


Less Common Reactions


Some less common side effects of Panacur include heavy breathing, itching, swelling of face, and lethargy. If any of these become prominent, call your veterinarian for advice, or take your animal in for a quick check-up.

[KathleenNYC]

ok, now I am really confused, he was really acting like he was on the road to recovery today, playing and awake, not himself but really better and now very lethargic again...
I guess it is back to the vet, but I am really apprehensive, they said the next thing is to take blood and that they have to sedate him to do that. If he is already alarmingly lethargic, that cant be good.

[KathleenNYC]

OK he is waking up better now, (I cant take this roller-coaster...) so I spoke to the nurse at the VETS office and made a appointment for tomorrow... If he continues this we will be there, I am going to switch him to watered down apple juice instead of the pedaylite, since we are approaching 24 hours.

[momma2boo]

I am wondering if this is a blood sugar issue. Is he better after eating and the further away from eating he is the more lethargic he becomes?

[Pierre]

I am wondering if this is a blood sugar issue. Is he better after eating and the further away from eating he is the more lethargic he becomes?

Yes, and has he had any food [formula] or just pedialyte?

[KathleenNYC]

yes it is when he is further away from eating! We have been giving him the formula at the regular times and the pedaylite between.
Actually, he just ate half a henry block, a piece of apple and is having his FV as I type. When I went to get him in his tub, he was easier to rouse, he first started flicking his tail at me and then stretched and yawned and sat up, first time I didn't have to pick him up to wake him!!! But he was sleepy like when he was when much younger. When we took him out of his tub he leaped right into Patrick hands!!! First burst of energy in days. He ate and is now curled up in my shirt....

[KathleenNYC]

thanks 4skwerlz!!!
I feel like we are living an episode of HOUSE...
He is happily chewing an apple stick now!!!

the perch pops out at me, not sure if was made in china, bought it in petco...

Right now he is back in his tub, and I have cleared out his cage, don't know what caused this, but everything he has had contact with just before I have removed and gotten rid of, including the vegetables.
I am going to start over with the healthy diet list (which has been all we use ) and begin adding new veggies one at a time.
Not sure what to do about branches and climbing things for his cage. I know he is under the weather now, but when he was and WILL BE WELL, he is full of energy.

[UDoWhat]

yes it is when he is further away from eating! We have been giving him the formula at the regular times and the pedaylite between.
Actually, he just ate half a henry block, a piece of apple and is having his FV as I type. When I went to get him in his tub, he was easier to rouse, he first started flicking his tail at me and then stretched and yawned and sat up, first time I didn't have to pick him up to wake him!!! But he was sleepy like when he was when much younger. When we took him out of his tub he leaped right into Patrick hands!!! First burst of energy in days. He ate and is now curled up in my shirt....

Well, this all sounds better tonight. Will keep you both in my prayers. :Love_Icon Keep us posted on how he is doing, as you can.

Marty

[KathleenNYC]

yes Marty,
we are doing better! definitely on the road...
just gave him some apple juice/water, and oh boy does he love it!!! 12 will be his FV and so it goes...
I will let you know...
Don't know what I would do without all of you!!!!!!!!

[Nancy in New York]

yes Marty,
we are doing better! definitely on the road...
just gave him some apple juice/water, and oh boy does he love it!!! 12 will be his FV and so it goes...
I will let you know...
Don't know what I would do without all of you!!!!!!!!

Glad your little one is on the road to recovery....God I just hate when they aren't feeling well, and you just can't put your finger on it....:shakehead
:Love_Icon

[cuteascnb]

Hope hes doing better....sounds like it! We are praying for him to pull through with flying colors :multi ....Let us know how hes doing!:grouphug

[island rehabber]

C'mon, little Wort! How are you going to grow into King Arthur and rule a kingdom if you're not big and strong? :D
Hope he's much better tomorrow.

[gs1]

:grouphug

[KathleenNYC]

C'mon, little Wort! How are you going to grow into King Arthur and rule a kingdom if you're not big and strong? :D
Hope he's much better tomorrow.

Wide awake at 5:30 am, when I went in for morning check! (Can squirrels get their days and night mixed up? He is a room with South West exposure, gets plenty of daylight) Climbed right up my arm for his morning nuzzle.
He didn't really want his FV but we hung out and I coaxed about 10cc and his meds... (I hope the sweet pedaylite and apple juice/water has not spoiled the little prince...)
I have given him a HB and some zucchini, he grabbed the zucchini (have we created a Mussolini instead of Arthur???)
Must go to work, Patrick is on watch now, will post again later...
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE !!!!!!
DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO WITHOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!

[momma2boo]

Wide awake at 5:30 am, when I went in for morning check! (Can squirrels get their days and night mixed up?

Yes! I have a squirrel who sleep most of the day and is up all night ... she is a grey squirrel and has her daytime and night-time mixed up.

[Second Chance Wildlife]

I'm quickly reading over your posts and I'm concerned about the panacur dosage. You mention his weight being 240 grams then in another posts you talk about panacur and .5cc. Panacur is dosed at 30-50 mg/kg in rodents. At a weight of 240 grams his daily dose of panacur (100mg/ml) suspension would be only .12cc. I might have read your post wrong but I wanted to be sure.

[KathleenNYC]

He is doing even better today... We are getting there!!!
I must apologize, maybe I should have typed .05?
I have a picture here of the tiny syringe the vet gave us and instructed me to fill it to the 5 line. ( included a 1cc and 3 cc syringe so you can compare.) I hope the dose is correct????
154021

[Nancy in New York]

He is doing even better today... We are getting there!!!
I must apologize, maybe I should have typed .05?
I have a picture here of the tiny syringe the vet gave us and instructed me to fill it to the 5 line. ( included a 1cc and 3 cc syringe so you can compare.) I hope the dose is correct????
154021

When you dosed the panacur, did you pull the syringe all the way to the top?
I can't get a good look at the numbers on your syringe, but is 0.05 near the bottom?

[Second Chance Wildlife]

You posted a pic of a
.30 insulin syringe so pulling it up to the 5 would be a dosage of .05cc which is on the low end and totally safe! I feel better now knowing the baby is not getting too much. Thanks for clarifying.

[KathleenNYC]

Yes it is the little 5 at the end, it seems almost like a drop...
And please don't thank me for clarifying!!! its those little things that can be the horror of all horrors!!!
the appreciation for all of the help and support everyone has offered can not be put in words.
If caring is what makes us human, this community is SUPER HUMAN!!!
This is our first baby and I assume to know nothing.
THANK YOU!!!
Always better safe than sorry!!!
Thank you!!!

[KathleenNYC]

The saddest part is he really enjoyed these...
I would hate to see any other baby get sick too!!!
154027 154028 154029

[KathleenNYC]

We had what seems to be a good morning... He was half asleep when I went in at 5:30, seemed to wake up fully/appropriately. Had his FV and meds... hung out with me (on my shoulder) while I cleaned up syringes, then we cleaned out his box (getting rid of any poops); played, hangout while I got HB and zucchini. Then (very) reluctantly and with trickery, I got him back in his box and he started munching... last check: rolling around playing....

Now he needs some new climbing branches and things to chew on... Anybody in the NYC area know where I can go this weekend to get some good branches? (thought I could even bake them at a low temp for a long time to make sure to get rid of any bugs...) I don't want to do it in the city because of pesticides and the helicopter fly overs for west Nile....
Patrick is going to make a new nest box from the branches also...
Thanks

[gs1]

looking at those things you bought all i can say is they look like the toys we buy for rabbits to chew on ...so while i'm not saying those things made him sick...it's very puzzling.

you could contact your house rabbit society chapter they might know where you can buy apple branches ..organic...

and yes...you can bake them to get rid of bugs...

also strip them if you want to....

i really don't have much advise for you ... it's all been so strange.....

i would advise talking to ir, flo etc... i'm sure they get safe branches from somewhere....

i wouldn't rule out low blood sugar either.... (not saying it wasn't poisoning etc.) but we don't know what caused this .... so just being freaked out over one thing doesn't mean that we can ignore everything else it could have been....

he may have a problem maintaining health in his internal organs...we don't know why his mother kicked him out... or if the only reason why he's blind in one eye is because of his fall out of the nest....

i know you already know all this ...just wanted to state the obvious.:grouphug

[KathleenNYC]

Wort seems to be OK, playing and eating, although now he wants solids more than the FV (He loves his Henry's Blocks, veggies and water.) I guess what ever it was we flushed out with the fluids.

But boy-oh-boy, after he tasted the applejuice/water mixture, I can get him wide awake if he just smells a sliver of apple. We are still coaxing as much FV as we can.

I think he has his days and nights mixed up now, he sleeps like a log from about noon to 6pm. But he can be roused during this time, without having to pick him up! I was a little worried, but he becomes fully awake and raring to go. Rolling around and trying to scrap, and runs you from head to toe. he loves to play. (He is such a good boy.)
Then back to sleep.

So for now he is sleeping in his tub (half heat) and playing in his cage. We are keeping a close eye on him, afraid he may just be a fragile little boy.
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!!

[Nancy in New York]

Awe thank you for the update. I was just thinking about you guys today. :grouphug :grouphug

[KathleenNYC]

Don't know what I would do without "The Squirrel Board"...!!!

[gs1]

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug so glad he's getting better:thumbsup