Two injured boys have to be overwintering - need advises

[iwonka]

There a 2, approximately 14 weeks old, squirrels spending the spending the cold Montreal winter with us indoors this year. One has a traumatic brain injury and the other has an injured leg and it was the hope that with exercise and the time to grow they would be better prepared for the outside world come springtime!

I have a few questions:


1. Is it alright to keep 2 male squirrels of this age together for so many months?
2. How much sunlight do they need daily? Is being in as sunny a location as possible during this stay recommended and enough or is full spectrum light also needed.
3. How much vitamin D do they need in winter in order to absorb all the Ca necessary for good health. We will do the Booballs (made with Fox valley formula) will also be on the menu. How many should they have?
4. What other things should be done to ensure their health and well being during this period.

Thank you for all your help and advice.

[jo_schmoe]

There a 2, approximately 14 weeks old, squirrels spending the spending the cold Montreal winter with us indoors this year. One has a traumatic brain injury and the other has an injured leg and it was the hope that with exercise and the time to grow they would be better prepared for the outside world come springtime!

I have a few questions:


1. Is it alright to keep 2 male squirrels of this age together for so many months?
2. How much sunlight do they need daily? Is being in as sunny a location as possible during this stay recommended and enough or is full spectrum light also needed.
3. How much vitamin D do they need in winter in order to absorb all the Ca necessary for good health. We will do the Booballs (made with Fox valley formula) will also be on the menu. How many should they have?
4. What other things should be done to ensure their health and well being during this period.

Thank you for all your help and advice.
They should be fine staying together especially if they are already together. Ad far as the Vit D...this is where a supplement comes in. Not much Vit D can pass through a window or a screen for that matter. Many forms are available. A lot of rehabbers use the HHBs for this. I don't recommend a UV lamp. They have to be so close to it to get much of anything from it and my opinion is that its pretty unnatural to have that much heat in the winter especially. ( I too live in a very cold climate.)

[Flo]

What is this traumatic brain injury ?what kind of symptoms he as? Are you sure he can be releaseD next spring ?
Brain injury give bad moves permanently of the head or the body, they cant move normaly... Usualy we wait one week and if he does,nt improve at all we have to take a decision ....
Maybe it will be better to ask to your vet daughter to putt him asleep " humanly " to stop his suffering ??
do you have somebody who can take him after winter if he cant recovery ?

[Pip]

I am Julia, the one taking care of Pip and Rocky with Iwonka's help! Rocky is eating well and climbing, jumping and playing. He throws his head back at times (this seems to be the only visible sign of his injury) but he seems pretty well coordinated in his movements. With more exercise we hope he will become as normal as possible. If he still has problems we will release him somewhere that is safe from preditors in the spring.

Pip had a broken leg that didn't heal properly (as shown in x rays) and therefore he does not use his one back leg as he should. We hope with more time and exercise he will find his own way and learn to cope. if not in the spring we will look for somewhere safe to release him also.

I know that the wild squirrel spend 70% of day sleeping inwinter. What about overwintering squirrels?..We would like for Pip and Rocky to grow, get big and strong, and most importantly exercise. How can we encourage them to be active?

How should we feed them?.. HHB? Boo Balls? or HHB+Boo Balls (is this too much of a good thing)? Is there any rule to calculate blocks/balls qty vs animal weight? The both are 300g now.


Thank you for all your advice and help.

[Scooterzmom]

Hi Pip:

I too am in the Montreal area. If you email me I could give you my number and we can see what we could work out together. Iwonka and I have spoken a lot and maybe we could help you.

[Pip]

Only one of my 2 squirrels is eating Booballs and he eats the one I give to the other squirrel too (taking it away from him at that). What to do: one is getting fat and the other is small still and skinny!!!? Please advise if there is some strategy or method to get both to eat their share well. I do not want either to get sick.
Thanks

[jo_schmoe]

Only one of my 2 squirrels is eating Booballs and he eats the one I give to the other squirrel too (taking it away from him at that). What to do: one is getting fat and the other is small still and skinny!!!? Please advise if there is some strategy or method to get both to eat their share well. I do not want either to get sick.
Thanks
Try giving them more than one a piece. :D
Maybe take the smaller one out to eat away from the other if its causing a weight issue.
In all honesty....I think its normal. No matter what they have....they always seem to want whats in the others mouth. My guys did this same thing....and eventually the one started standing up for herself. She now slaps her brother in the face when he tries to do this....and he always tries.

[Scooterzmom]

I have one guy who tries to steal from the other all the time. Is their cage big enough? It helps if the small one has a place to go hide in order to eat. My Pebbles run to the top shelf to eat while grumpy/thief Hansel eats on the middle shelf.

One suggestion is, give the 1st piece to the little one and tease the thief with one piece from outside the cage while the little one begins eating. Then, when the little fella is half-done with his piece, you finally give the thief his piece.

Or, you can give the theif a very small piece, to keep him busy and give the little one a big piece... BUT stay there with another piece for the thief, and tease him with it... make him follow it from behind the bars until the small guy has eaten most of his. You could also try to separate them at meal time but I guess that depends on your set-up.

[4skwerlz]

How should we feed them?.. HHB? Boo Balls? or HHB+Boo Balls (is this too much of a good thing)? Is there any rule to calculate blocks/balls qty vs animal weight? The both are 300g now.


Thank you for all your advice and help.

Your squirrels need some kind of rodent block or squirrel blocks as the basis of the diet, along with healthy veggies, wild foods, and occasional treats (see the "Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels" in the nutrition forum).

An animal will eat enough food to meet his energy needs (calories), so as long as the blocks and the whole diet are balanced (i.e., all nutrients present in correct amounts), he will get the right amount of nutrients. For example, a smaller or less active squirrel will tend to eat less. As long as the diet is balanced you can let their appetite and instincts be your guide.

HHBs (Henry's Healthy Blocks): Feed 2 per day (approx. 15 g by weight). A squirrel might eat from 1 to 4 per day depending on activity level, age, body size, etc. Also healthy veggies, etc., per the Healthy Diet.

Rodent Blocks (Harlan, Mazuri, etc.): Feed as 80% of the diet (approx. 50 g by weight per day for an adult squirrel; possibly less for a 300-g squirrel), along with the healthy veggies, etc.

Hope this helps.

[Pierre]

Rodent Blocks (Harlan, Mazuri, etc.): Feed as 80% of the diet (approx. 50 g by weight per day for an adult squirrel; possibly less for a 300-g squirrel), along with the healthy veggies, etc.



How do you come up with the 50 g of block a day?

[Pierre]

Equating rat block to the things squirrels eat in a week isn't apples to apples. We don't know the nutrient value of what they eat per week.

The recommended amount of HT block per adult rat is about 20g - 25g per day, a little up or down depending on size etc.
Fifty grams of HT's would be over in many nutrients, including calcium---which would be 500mg in this much block.

[Pierre]

Yes, for a rat, it would.

So where is the data for what a tree squirrel requires?

Fifty g of HT's would be 500mg of calcium a day.

[Pierre]

Where do you get that number? 500 mg calcium per 50 g of block would be 10,000 mg/kg block, or twice the NRLA requirement for rats. Perhaps your math is off.

It was from a discussion with Harlan Teklad, I'll review.


Where is the data though for what a squirrel requires?

[Pierre]

.

[Pierre]

We can't say what is necessary for a squirrel when, unless you correct me, there is no data on what they need.

[Pierre]

.
.
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Double checked with Harlan Teklad this morning. Fifty grams of HT block a day would be 500 mg of Calcium a day. My math was correct.


A squirrel eats roughly his own body weight in food each week. This is typically given as a range of 1 to 1.5 pounds of food. Taking the lower number, that's 1 pound of food per week, or 453 g. Commercial rodent block is meant to be fed as 80-100% of the entire diet in order to achieve desired nutrient levels. So that would be between 362 g (80% of diet) and 453 g (100% of diet) of rodent block per week. To calculate daily intake, taking the lower number again, 362 g divided by 7 is 51.7 g per day.


The weight of a substance does not equate with its nutritional value.

The above would mean that the nutritional value in every food was the same solely by its weight.

Fifty grams of HT block does not [without having any data] nutritionally equal 50 grams of a wild squirrel diet [of which we don't even know], just as 50 grams of celery does not have the same nutritional value as 50 grams of beef.

[iwonka]

OMG.. I'm totally confused now :thinking :hidechair :help

[iwonka]

Sorry about that.:D It's pretty simple.

Feed Harlan Teklad or any other brand of rodent block according to the directions on the label. If you need help with the directions, let us know which block you're using and we can help you figure it out.

HHBs are fed at 2 blocks per day.

Hope that helps.


I have SunSeed Critter Cubes and I'm already making Boo Balls (50 grams SunSeed cubes+50 grams powdered FV+50 grams nuts+20 grams coconut oil
+1 jar baby food fruit). On the top off this I've just ordered HHP Vita-Mins.

I'm afraid that our over-wintering squirrels will be over-vitaminised :Squirrel :squirrel1 :rolleyes:


Thanks.
Iwonka

[iwonka]

The Homemade Squirrel Blocks (recipe from the Squirrel Nutrition forum, using the HHP Vita-Mins and the Whey Protein Isolate) are 100% balanced and complete. No worries about too many vitamins.:)

Shoud I continue with Boo Balls as well?

[Pierre]

Boo Balls can be fed like food. They are made of food and are not a vitamin or supplement. Ratios are all fine. You can feed as many as they like as long as they don't get obese or anything! :D