Possible Sago Palm Nut Poisoning

[Chelleswt9]

I feel just sick, and really need some advice. I have a squirrel I saved and released a couple years ago. A few days ago (5?) I noticed him in the tree with a strange looking nut, he seemed fascinated by it but was just scraping the outer skin off, biting big chunks off and letting them fall to the ground. I didn't think too much of it as he often says "Hello I'm up here" by dropping acorns on my head.
Then 2 days ago and I noticed he's on the ground and acting strange, wanting in the house. He came right to me and wants to cuddle alot (hasn't done that in over a year), he's lethargic mostly, but did run around the house a bit yesterday, jumping onto the tables, etc. So he does have some energy. I let him (he wanted to) go back into his old cage, and I went searching the yard for the weird nut I saw him with.
I finally found it yesterday, half chewed. I googled it and Oh God, I'm pretty sure it's a sago palm nut. I called my vet who doesn't treat squirrels but he said they're very toxic and if he ate 1/2 of it 2 days ago, it's unlikely he can be saved anyway, and suggested euthanasia to spare him suffering. Does that sound right? I'm just sick and don't know what to do.

Maybe he's just a little sick from chewing on it? I read they are bitter and squirrels don't eat them. He's still eating a little when I tempt him. Obviously he came back to me for help. Can I give him something for pain or to soothe his stomach while holding-out hope he didn't ingest too much and might get better? Or is that cruel? Is there some sign or symptom I can watch for to help me know what to do and when? I have some Butorphanol I've given him before, but don't want to do the wrong thing, do I recall correctly it might bother his stomach? Geez this is so absurd, my dad has stage 4 cancer, my aunt died Saturday, my mom is a wreck, and here I am bawling over this little squirrel......

[astra]

Gosh, I am so sorry!

usually, with poisoning it is recommended to flush with fluids right after a squirrel ingested the poisonous stuff. I know, it's been 2 days, as you said, but still, it won't hurt - so if you can, could you hold him and make him drink from a syringe?... I know you can put a bowl, too, but it's just that I think from a syringe you can control how much he actually drinks.
But whichever way, push fluids.

another thing a lot of ppl use with poisoning is charcoal that you can get a pharmacy. I do not know if its usage is the same for squirrels as for humans as i never had to use it with animals, but i am sure exp. ppl will help with that.

YOu can use infant ibuprofen for pain - CritterMom and a few others know how to dose it.

Heating pad can, sometimes, bring some pain relief, so if you put it under half of where he is, it might help some.

Sorry, can't be of more help. But please keep checking here: a few exp. people have been directed to your thread.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[mpetys]

You came to the right place. An experienced rehabber should be on soon. I have sent a few private messages to some to alert them to your post. I am sorry but I have to leave right now but wanted to try to get you some help before I did. While I have cared for some squirrels, I do not have the experience to give you advice. How is he eating? Drinking. If I had to guess, I would think you would need to get fluids into him to help push any toxins out of his system. Will he let you syringe feed him? I am hoping and praying that since it has been 5 days that is a good sign. Perhaps he just shredded the nut and didn't actually ingest much. Prayers for you and your baby. :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

astra posted great advice with flushing his system, but I am inclined to think that if this happened 5 days ago, flushing wouldn't necessarily help....BUT he could have gotten another one that you weren't aware of.
So what I would do is feed him with a syringe, if you can handle him. Push pedialyte for no more than 24 hours. Give him watermelon, that has lots of fluids.
You can administer infant motrin (ibuprofen) if you think that he is hurting. Do you have a weight on him? I believe the activated charcoal is only administered 24 hours after ingestion.
I have also heard that milk thistle is effective when possible poisoning is suspected, it helps protect the liver from toxins. Let me see if I can find any info on that.
Just keep pushing fluids, it certainly can't hurt....:grouphug

[CritterMom]

I would absolutely keep him inside and do supportive care - push fluids as hard as you can - he might like the rehydration fluid because it has sugar in it, or give him diluted apple juice, water with some sugar or syrup in it - not much concerned with too much sugar at this point; you want to do whatever it takes to get him to consume it.

It is far too late for activated charcoal.

Milk thistle is an excellent liver tonic. It is available as a liquid in most health food stores and can be added to almost any food.

That he is still with us after this length of time is a very good sign. The other case of sago poisoning I have seen here resulted in death, but it occurred very quickly, not days later. If you can provide him with heat, hydration, food and protection for a bit, he may very well do okay. He may not have ingested a lot of the nut. I hope.

[Chelleswt9]

K he seems to remember the syringe from his baby days and took a little water, as well as ate part of a green bean. Thank you all so very much for the fast responses. I'll get out the heating pad and go get him some pedialyte and watermelon, and I'll keep checking back for sure. His eyes seem a little brighter than they did yesterday, so maybe....

[Nancy in New York]

I would absolutely keep him inside and do supportive care - push fluids as hard as you can - he might like the rehydration fluid because it has sugar in it, or give him diluted apple juice, water with some sugar or syrup in it - not much concerned with too much sugar at this point; you want to do whatever it takes to get him to consume it.

It is far too late for activated charcoal.

Milk thistle is an excellent liver tonic. It is available as a liquid in most health food stores and can be added to almost any food.

That he is still with us after this length of time is a very good sign. The other case of sago poisoning I have seen here resulted in death, but it occurred very quickly, not days later. If you can provide him with heat, hydration, food and protection for a bit, he may very well do okay. He may not have ingested a lot of the nut. I hope.

CritterMom, do you know how much of the milk thistle to give?

[mpetys]

Just checking back in. Thanks everyone for the great advice. Chelleswt9, please do check back quite often. Many times someone will think of something or have a question for you so the sooner you can get back to them the better! :)


Also, it might be helpful to get a weight on him just so you know where he is starting at and can detect if he is starting to lose weight, maybe from not eating enough. And, if you could get a picture of him as he is now that might be a good thing. I'm thinking that if, days down the road, he is not doing well and you post a picture, we have nothing to compare it to. Right now, you say his eyes seem a little brighter. An experienced person, looking at two pictures may be able to detect something that you may miss. And, of course, we love pictures around here.

This spring one of my adults (non-releasablee, indoor squirrel) became ill. Don't know if he fell or was bit by a spider. Just woke up one morning, couldnt find him and found him lethargic in his nestbox. He cried when I picked him up. Anyhow, he was not eating obviously so I started syringe feeding him his Fox Valley baby formula. He hadn't had any in months and months. Would not even lap it out of a bowl. Well now that he was sick or injured, it was like he knew he needed this form of nutrition. I thought I was going to have to fight him to take formula from a syringe again. Let us know how much he is eating. I am wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea, if he is taking the syringe, to supplement his food with some squirrel formula or maybe Ensure. Just thinking out loud here. :grouphug :grouphug

[Pierre]

I agree to push fluids and as much liver support as possible as the nut seems to affect the liver greatly.

How much milk thistle can be given safely? I'd push to the max.

Here is some more info. The fact that it's been many days since he ate it seem to be in your favor for sure. Hopefully none of the extreme effects below will ever pertain to your boy. :grouphug

"The plant has a chemical called cycasin that is toxic. The colorful seeds have the most toxin but the rest of the plant is toxic too. Signs of poisoning are vomiting, weakness, diarrhea, depression, liver failure, seizures, coma, and death. These signs are for both humans and animals. This plant kills 75% to 80% of the animals that are poisoned. The few who survive usually have permanent liver damage and some neurological damage."

[CritterMom]

I think that the milk thistle has a HUGE tolerance level. I used to put 3 or 4 droppers ful into my parrot's water dishes and they are notoriously touchy. I agree, though. I would start pushing it.

Perhaps he never go in to the seeds??

[island rehabber]

Great advice here.....standing by but it's all been said perfectly. Hoping and praying for no lasting effects on this baby!

[pappy1264]

Are you seeing any bleeding, or any bruised looking areas on her body? Being 5 days out, it is tough, as the sooner treatment begins, the better chance. I would get milk thistle and continue to push fluids. Sending loads of prayers your way.

[stosh2010]

Some SAGO Info---

SAGO:
Uses: Primarily ornamental; often as focal point in large yards and public or private gardens; rosette pattern of feathery leaves add sense of tropics to landscape; young King Sago plants used as ornamental ground cover due to slow growth; flour can be made from seeds and pith of stem, but too much consumption may result in neurological disorder because of neurotoxin content; consumption is not recommended because of this toxicity and the endangered status of cycads; medicinally, various parts of the cycad plant used in treatment of cancer, malignant tumors, rheumatism and as a diuretic.
Sago Palms are very attractive trees, topped by a terminal crown of gracefully spreading, long, dark green, pinnate semi-glossy leaves; leaflets (pinnae) with prominent midrib without lateral veins; tomentum - the hairy leaf covering - sheds as leaf expands; male Sagos develop one or more elongated scale-like cones, coming from center of top of plant; female Sagos develop toothed, rounded, white or yellow cones, pollinated by insects or wind, and producing many flattened seeds; as cone matures, seed-bearing leaves separate displaying brightly colored seeds, often red, purple, or yellow; seeds have spongy layer allowing them to float on water. The much larger Queen Sago Palm usually consists of a single stout trunk up to 6 m tall (20 ft), 30-60 cm in diameter (1-2 ft); some branching may occur in older plants, producing handsome trees with multiple crowns; leaves 1.5-2.5 m long (5-8 ft), with 40 to 85 pairs of narrowly lanceolate leaflets with flat margins; male cones cylindrical, up to 70 cm tall (27 in); seeds yellow to brown, up to 5.5 cm long (2 in). The more common King Sago Palm is a smaller, “dwarf” species, growing up to 3.5 m (11 ft), developing many branches from the main trunk and from sprouts at ground level; has compact green leaves, 0.75-1.5 m long (2.5-5 ft); leaflets about 60 pairs, linear, 10 - 20 cm long (4-8 in), with thickened margins rolled under the leaf; male cones cylindrical, up to 50 cm tall (20 in); seeds red or orange, up to 4 cm long (1.5 in)
Sago Palms are actually Cycads and are not true palms. They are more closely related to Pine Trees than to Palm Trees
A chemical in the plant called cycasin is toxic and often causes permanent liver damage as well as neurological damage if enough of the poison is absorbed by the body. The seeds are the most poisonous part of the plant and the effects on humans are seizures, coma and death.

[Chelleswt9]

I drove to town and got pedialite, watermelon, and his favorites - sugar-snap beans, carrots, etc. He ate some watermelon and carrot and drank some water from a rodent water bottle I usually keep outside for him and the other squirrels (I've moved it back into his cage now).
He's fussing over the syringe w/ pedialite but won't drink it. I think he wants milk. I have puppy Esbilac, I think that's what he wants/remembers. Mine can has a golden retriever puppy on it (someone asked someone else in another thread and I'm curious to know why), I don't guess that matters in this situation though.
I found Milk Thistle too but it's a 1000 mg softgel capsule, it's all I could find, so I'm trying to figure out how and how much to give to him.
By brighter eyes, I guess yesterday his eyes were barely open like he was a little groggy and things that normally spook him, didn't. Now his eyes are more open and he's looking around more. AND I had a heck of a time putting him back in the cage so I could go to the store. It was like the old days when he would hide on my back where I couldn't reach him! Also I'll get a pic and weight. He's a big squirrel I think.

[Nancy in New York]

I drove to town and got pedialite, watermelon, and his favorites - sugar-snap beans, carrots, etc. He ate some watermelon and carrot and drank some water from a rodent water bottle I usually keep outside for him and the other squirrels (I've moved it back into his cage now).
He's fussing over the syringe w/ pedialite but won't drink it. I think he wants milk. I have puppy Esbilac, I think that's what he wants/remembers. Mine can has a golden retriever puppy on it (someone asked someone else in another thread and I'm curious to know why), I don't guess that matters in this situation though.
I found Milk Thistle too but it's a 1000 mg softgel capsule, it's all I could find, so I'm trying to figure out how and how much to give to him.
By brighter eyes, I guess yesterday his eyes were barely open like he was a little groggy and things that normally spook him, didn't. Now his eyes are more open and he's looking around more. AND I had a heck of a time putting him back in the cage so I could go to the store. It was like the old days when he would hide on my back where I couldn't reach him! Also I'll get a pic and weight. He's a big squirrel I think.


Check on the can for an expiration date, that may be outdated. The golden retriever is on the older cans....but yours may be expired. The formula has changed since the golden retriever was on the can, and the new formula is terrible...BUT with that being said, some have said that the Golden Retriever could still be used on the "bad" formula, I know I am confused too....LOL Let's just try to get some FV to you.....so much easier.:D
Perhaps a Texas member can mail you a little, you would get that faster....than if you ordered it from Nick.

[Chelleswt9]

Yep, that's the nut I saw him with. I cruised around the block and found 2 big sago palms 1/2 block away, they have nuts on them. I still don't know how to give him this Milk Thistle, I cut the capsule and could put drops on his food, but I don't know how much and I know I should hurry.
He's sleeping again, I'll try to get a pic soon, but just so you can see how sweet he is... here's a movie my daughter made of him in 2009.

Ike The Movie (http://youtu.be/gfknew93Ktg)

He has an outdoor cage and can come inside to his indoor cage thru a tunnel in the window of my sewing room. When he got big enough we added a door outside so he can come and go as he pleases (I've closed that for now). He eventually stopped sleeping in his cage, but must have made a nest nearby because I see him often.

and the Esbilac is out of date, wasn't thinking. I sure do appreciate all of your help and squirrel prayers, yall do great work here. BTW my name is Chelle

[CritterMom]

Use about 2% of the human dose as shown on the bottle. That is a little high but you are trying to counteract known poisoning, and are not just using it as a "tonic."

Good quality health food stores and places like Whole Foods will sell this as a liquid and it will be a lot easier to dose. I would start getting a little into him right away. Your worst side effect will be a little stomach upset if he gets a lot more than he should - it is a VERY safe herb.

[Chelleswt9]

Thank you, I was surprised he actually liked that milk thistle. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself but he seems better than he was yesterday... I'll keep giving him the milk thistle and pushing the fluids. He still doesn't seem to be drinking much but has water in the cage. He'll eat a little bit of almost anything I offer him. I've asked my husband to pick up some Ensure on the way home, maybe that will tempt him too. I can't thank you all enough for helping me.

[Nancy in New York]

I'll keep giving him the milk thistle and pushing the fluids.

How often should the milk thistle be given?

[mpetys]

Thank you, I was surprised he actually liked that milk thistle. I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself but he seems better than he was yesterday... I'll keep giving him the milk thistle and pushing the fluids. He still doesn't seem to be drinking much but has water in the cage. He'll eat a little bit of almost anything I offer him. I've asked my husband to pick up some Ensure on the way home, maybe that will tempt him too. I can't thank you all enough for helping me.

Hopefully your husband will see the pecan flavor Ensure. That has been a hit when I have had to use Ensure!

[muffinsquirrel]

Chelle, I am pretty close to you (I even know where Daton is!!). I can meet you somewhere and bring you some FV. We're about an hour and a half apart - in Texas, that's just a hop, skip and a jump, especially if we can meet in the middle. Let me know if you want to try it. I'l be busy from about 2:00 til 3:00 with physical therapy tomorrow, but we should be able to work around that somehow.

muffinsquirrel
Judy

[Chelleswt9]

Wow you are too kind Judy! Thank you so much. I just can't, I'm driving to Dallas for a funeral in the morning, today my Dad finishes his 6th round of chemo and needs help getting settled back at home, so I'm leaving soon to go over there, I will stop at a health food store in town and look for the for the liquid form of. I hate to leave at all, but my Mom can't drive so... My husband will be here to care for Ike and the dogs while I'm gone.
So about that Milk Thistle:
To arrive at 2% I added 25 drops of water to 1/4 capsule, mixed it well (I used a few drops of apple juice to break up the capsule contents then added the water, and put 2 drops on his food which he licked off then ate the food. I had planned to give him 2 more doses today unless I hear otherwise. I hate doing it that way I KNOW it's not ideal. I did some reading and see body builders often take 12000 mg a day, so I feel fairly sure I'm not overdosing him, I maybe should even be giving more but I'm afraid. Ike got up and went into his outdoor cage to see the world this morning, whereas he was just sleeping inside before. He ate pretty good, haven't seen him drink much water but it's available for him, and I've been putting his food in a tiny bowl with some water and different juices he likes and he's eating that. I think I started this thread when he was at his worst and he still seems to be improving, at least he's eating and moving around now. I'll check back later to make sure no one says I'm doing this completely wrong! I'll be back with an update when I get home Saturday. And Thank You Again Judy! I can't believe your kindness, all of you actually.

[pappy1264]

Any updates?

[Chelleswt9]

My trip ran long. Ike still seems to be improving though. He's much much much more active now, to the point I can barely handled him, he's definitely not wanting to cuddle with me anymore! He's eating much better too, doesn't seem to want any nuts or acorns at all though. He is eating veggies and fruits like sugar snap peas, pumpkin seeds, mushroom slices, orange, papaya, avocado (no skin or pit), celery, squash, and spinach. Yesterday evening I tried to weigh him again but he wouldn't cooperate, he turned over a lamp, climbed the curtains, and scratched me up pretty good, before grabbing a flying bug that hit the floor, and ate it before I even saw what it was. Gross to watch, but he sure seemed to enjoy it, nothing but the wings left for me to try and identify it by. A June bug maybe, or some type of flying beetle.
He was 445 grams before I left, I'll get his weight today for sure. He's not eating almonds or squirrel block, I gave him 5 acorns (he ate two) and an unshelled pecan which he ate, but now he's just stashing them. He wants out pretty bad now but of course I won't let him go till I know he's okay.

[Chelleswt9]

Oh and I have a funny story for yall.
My husband called me in Dallas in a total, complete panic, I thought for sure Ike had died, because he was sooo upset. He said "Oh my God Chelle, I just noticed Ike's nuts are gone" "They're just gone", he kept saying and "they're not in his cage either!!!" I thought he was talking about pecans or something at first.
No... he was talking about Ike's testicles!
Ha ha, he had only just noticed his testicles have shrunk to the point he looks castrated! He almost got mad because I got the giggles! It took me quite a while to convince him that Ike was ok, they've been like that, and it's normal because it's not mating season! Anyway I thought yall might get a kick out of that!

[mpetys]

Sounds like good news. Thanks for the update. I'm so glad that Ike is doing well. Tell your husband not to feel too bad, we all have a story to tell about balls. Where'd they go?, why did hey shrink?, is he ok?, is he in pain? I do imagine for the males, it's not something they wanna laugh about!

Keep us updated. We love Ike!