Finicky Eaters

[vickyjhnsn]

I just got in two new squirrels a couple of days ago. Theo and Simon. I posted them on the nursery thread but I'll put their pictures here so you can see them. The first time I fed them they chowed down. Ate 5 cc each of the FV non-stop. Second feeding went well too and then it all went down hill. Started noticing the poop was light, light yellow. Almost a white with a tint of mustard. I know that can mean overfeeding. Its not runny and is still hard. Since yesterday when I noticed this, it has improved today.

This is the problem. They eat the 5 - 6 cc every third or fourth feeding. In between they range from one to three max. Only once a day are they eating the full amount and it has been their 6 pm feeding both days. I get worried when the don't eat all their food, or at least 5 cc. I called the rehabber who had them and she told me that she was feeding them every four hours and they would take 2 - 3 cc per feeding and that was it. Theo is 107 grams and Simon (the worst eater) is at 96 grams.

Is this normal? Do you think it will take them a while to take in all their formula at one feeding. Oh, they are active, not dehydrated, playful, and never bloat (even after the entire amount). Their poop is now mustard color and hard and they pee just fine (all over me most of the time). :D

Is this an adjustment thing maybe. There does not appear to be anything wrong with them at all. Like I said, they are playful, climbing all over their cage, playing with each other, no runny nose, no aspirations, eyes look good. Just a little worried they are not getting enough nutrition. I have put the Henry's blocks in their cages and they do nibble on those. Could that be the problem? It doesn't seem like they are eating much of them. Little chunks here and there. Chip, the one I've had for a while eats like a little piggy. 6 cc every four to four and a half hours. His poop is great, no lightening or runny poop at all. Why is it he is smaller and can chow down more food? Chip is maybe a week or so younger.

Thanks in advance for your help and I'm posting their pictures so you can see their size and development:

Theo (male):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff256/vickyjhnsn/Theo.jpg

Simon (female):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff256/vickyjhnsn/Simon.jpg

Chip (male):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff256/vickyjhnsn/DSCN0969-1.jpg

[Rhapsody]

Please keep in mind that white poop can mean that you are feeding COLD FORMULA (and) IF formula gets to cold --Squirrels will NOT drink it.
Could this be the problem?
How old are they?

They look a little young for Squirrel Block..... We do not recommend Squirrel Block until they are 7 weeks old, Nothing but Formula til then.

[vickyjhnsn]

One more question. These guys will be ready for release sometime in November (determined by their age). Can you release in winter. I have been doing research and some sites say no, some yes. The girls here apparently do. I've read on this forum that waiting until the spring was what some members were doing. What are your opinions on that?

Also, (cause I don't have enough questions), nipples or no nipples. I have them, I don't use them. I've read they are bad when the babies have teeth and one of the rehabbers here acted like it was a crime I did not use them. I bought them from Henry's and have them. I did use them a couple of times and honestly, squirrels were not that into them. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks again in advance.

[Rhapsody]

You can release IF you can get them ready before the COLD sets in ----meaning they turn at least 14 weeks old before then and have enough time to set up house --make a nest and bury some acorns for winter food.

I personally use a nipple as they allow me to better control the flow of formula that goes into their mouth and they satisfy the baby squirrels need to suck.... a comfort and security thing for them --some thing they would have gotten from mom.

[4skwerlz]

Your babies will need an adjustment in feeding schedule. Either less formula each time, or longer between each feeding. Younger babies usually need less/more often; older babies need more/less often. Use the 5% rule to start with, which is 5% of their body weight in grams per feeding. Probably it was that extra cc (6 ccs) that caused the problem. They should take about the same amount each feeding.

Baby squirrels (healthy ones) always act like they're starving and will overfeed if given the chance.

As for releasing, November is not good, even in Florida. Which means you're stuck with them until spring. :)

Nipples: Older babies sometimes don't like them because they're not used to them. Whatever works.

[Adventurista]

They are DARLING!!! Oh, I can't wait until my baby opens his sweet little eyes!

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 vickyjhnsn
I would overwinter till Spring. This will give them a better chance to Survive. Their is more food available and more nest building materials. :thumbsup5
In the winter there is very little food available, and nothing for them to learn how to build the nests to live in. :nono
All the other squirrels will push them out and they can starve or freeze to death. :eek:

[vickyjhnsn]

Thanks so much for your answers. Did not know about the cold formula thing and that being the cause of the white poop and that is great to know, but no, my babies are spoiled. I heat it up prior to putting it in the syringes under hot water, then fill plastic bags full of hot, hot water and lay it over the syringes. It keeps it warm for a long time. I always test it on my wrist like you would an infant child (had three). If the syringe gets cold while feeding, I put it back under the bags or run it under hot water again with baby on my shoulder.

Their poop is back to normal now, nice and mustardy and hard. Each one of them. I read on this site that you can put the blocks in when they open their eyes. The rehabber before me had the two eating blocks before they came to me. Should I wait another week or so before I give them more??? I'm sure the girl is eating them, I saw her. Last night I did not give them any and took them all out of their cage and their 4 am feeding and the 9 am feeding the girl ate 5 cc each time. Best she has eaten since she first got here. What should I do? Should I wait on the blocks or keep giving it to them?

Thanks again, I don't know what I'd do without you guys. :bowdown

[vickyjhnsn]

Oh yeah, Glad to hear I get to keep them till spring. I would hate having to release them in the winter. It gives me a chance to really work on my release area too. I can make it really nice for them. Thanks again.

[4skwerlz]

Should I wait on the blocks or keep giving it to them?

Most rehabbers recommend providing blocks once the eyes are open.

You can also provide fresh branches from nontoxic, nonsprayed trees. The Healthy Diet lists some of the more common tree choices.

Here's an eyes-just-opened baby enjoying his first branch:
149572

[vickyjhnsn]

Thanks 4skwerlz about the tree branch. I have two. One they can climb on and one for chewing. They wont swallow the wood right? I haven't seen them do that, just wondered. They do make a mess with it so I'm assuming they spit it out.

I have not given them the blocks since I posted but I have them down in their room ready to give them to them again tonight. Please tell me what you think about this plan. Not give the blocks during the day so they eat all their formula and at night give them a half each because I spread out their feedings at night from four hours to five.

Theo (male, mid 7 week) is at 120 grams, Chip (male early 6 week old) 124, and Simon (female mid 7 week old) 112 grams. The way I figure (after much math) The boys should be getting 5 -6 cc per feeding (every four hours) and the female no more than 5 until she gains some weight. I know this changes with their weight but at least I know the math now. I'm an IT major almost finished with my Bachelor's with an Associates degree in business and this simple math has my brain tired. :shakehead I am definitely creating a spreadsheet so all we have to do is enter their weight in grams and it gives you the feedings at an every six hour schedule. If you want a copy, be more than happy to get it to you in Excel.

I'm wondering about how the blocks affect their nutrition and hydration. If they eat the blocks are they getting the same amount of nutrition? Don't they need water?

What do you think about the water bottles for rabbit/ferret/hampster cages? I just bought one. Anyone's opinion would help on that one.

I think I got the feeding thing down with the formula now just trying to learn so I do this right. They start to wean off at what age? I thought I read at 10 weeks?

Thanks in advance for your help. The girls out here do things so much different then all of you and they were using puppy formula until I got the one girl the squirrel formula and Henry's blocks and now she has the same questions.

Thanks in advance. I know it is a lot of questions, just want to make sure they end up healthy as ever.

Just to point out, the two little ones were on the Esbalic puppy formula until I got them. Chip, I've had almost a week and a half longer then the other two weighs almost the same as the male and a lot more than the female. He is a little over a week younger. Thumbs up to that FV formula. Just goes to show you the advantages to the FV over the Esbalic.

[4skwerlz]

Thanks 4skwerlz about the tree branch. I have two. One they can climb on and one for chewing. They wont swallow the wood right? I haven't seen them do that, just wondered. They do make a mess with it so I'm assuming they spit it out. Even babies always seem to know exactly what to do with a branch. :) Never heard of any problems. Our rehabbers can chime in if they know otherwise. Squirrels do eat parts of branches; the inner bark, the cambium, is nutritious, as is the sap. Plus they do need some fiber in their diet. And of course, they instinctively gnaw to keep their teeth in good shape. As you can see in the pic I posted, that lil' baby is going to town on that branch with no problems.


I have not given them the blocks since I posted but I have them down in their room ready to give them to them again tonight. Please tell me what you think about this plan. Not give the blocks during the day so they eat all their formula and at night give them a half each because I spread out their feedings at night from four hours to five....I'm wondering about how the blocks affect their nutrition and hydration. If they eat the blocks are they getting the same amount of nutrition?
It's okay to leave a block in there with them; at least that's what most rehabbers do. They tend to mainly gnaw on them at first, not really consuming much, which is fine. They will make a gradual transition to more solids/less formula over the coming weeks. The growth block has good nutrition. It's a good time to introduce a water bottle too.


What do you think about the water bottles for rabbit/ferret/hampster cages? I just bought one. Anyone's opinion would help on that one. That's what most people use. I personally like the cheap water bottles Walmart carries in the pet department. Strangely enough, they seem to work the best, last the longest, and leak the least. :dono Some folks like the Lixit brand. IR has one she really likes; I forget the brand. Whatever kind you get, check it every day to make the sure the little ball isn't stuck....just tap the end of the nozzle with your finger to make sure water comes out. Another one of those little details.


Just to point out, the two little ones were on the Esbalic puppy formula until I got them. Chip, I've had almost a week and a half longer then the other two weighs almost the same as the male and a lot more than the female. He is a little over a week younger. Thumbs up to that FV formula. Just goes to show you the advantages to the FV over the Esbalic. Yes, FV certainly does seem to work a lot better. Just dealt with another new baby-finder with a 7-week-old that's been on Esbilac for a couple weeks. Same deal as the baby in this thread: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30609 Something wrong somewhere, for sure.

[vickyjhnsn]

4skwerlz thanks again for you quick response. I know how tedious this must seem to you. After loosing my little Alvina, I want to do everything right. I'm big on nutrition so this fascinates me. I do it with my dog and cat too, only that is easy stuff to find out and research.

I have one more question. I have created an Excel Worksheet that allows a user to just enter in the weight in grams and instantly gives you the amount of cc to feed per feeding for 4x per day and 6x per day. I did two, one for 1 teaspoon per ounce and 1.5 teaspoons per ounce.

My question: The difference between the teaspoon and teaspoon and a half is quiet a lot for a little squirrel. On the back of the FV bag it gives you those two options. What would you or anyone else here recommend?

Here is an example of the difference: I put Chip's weight in, 124 grams. For one and a half teaspoon, I am supposed to be feeding him 5 - 6 cc per feeding. For the one teaspoon per ounce I should be feeding him 3 - 4 cc per feeding. These are @ 6 feedings per day. See, there is a good difference there. What is your recommendation?

Again, I would be willing to share this spreadsheet. I'll find a way to post it online and share it with everyone. This makes it so much easier to figure out how much your babies should be eating.

Thanks so much for your help. Sorry if I'm driving you crazy with my questions. Hopefully someday, I'll be able to help others. Thanks again.

[vickyjhnsn]

Yes, FV certainly does seem to work a lot better. Just dealt with another new baby-finder with a 7-week-old that's been on Esbilac for a couple weeks. Same deal as the baby in this thread: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30609 Something wrong somewhere, for sure.


Wow!! Those pictures say it all. One girl here thought she was overfeeding because of the diarrhea and I know it was from the Esbilac. All her babies could not have been overfed and I fed the same amount/same age. Normal poop. I guess it makes a good supplement. I did not have those problems with the 21st Century though. That might be another good solution? It may not work that good for others though so don't hold me to that.

[4skwerlz]

Wow!! Those pictures say it all. One girl here thought she was overfeeding because of the diarrhea and I know it was from the Esbilac. All her babies could not have been overfed and I fed the same amount/same age. Normal poop. I guess it makes a good supplement. I did not have those problems with the 21st Century though. That might be another good solution? It may not work that good for others though so don't hold me to that.

We might look into the 21st Century formula as a possible emergency formula.

Still, I did a bit of research on formulas some years ago and *of course* the nutrient requirements of dogs are very different from that of squirrels.

Do you know who makes 21st Century? It wouldn't surprise me if it were Pet-Ag. When Hartz got a bad name due to poor quality and animal deaths, they just started a new subsidiary called L&M Farms. Sometimes when there are a lot of problems with a product, even if the problem is FIXED, the bad PR can't be overcome, so....voila, a new name.