Injured Baby

[Izzie]

Quick question. I've got a 2 - 3 week old baby foxer. She was played with by a housecat and has some shallow puncture wounds. I've got her on Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole oral antibiotics, acidophilus and Esbilac. I'm also treating the wounds with silver sulfadiazine creme. I got her last night around 7 pm (PST). She was found at 5 pm yesterday. She's eating well, but her appetite has been dropping a bit the last few feedings - this corresponds to my decreasing the amount of pedialyte diluting the Esbilac for rehydration. She's getting close to 2 mls every 3 hours. She weighes 72 grams today. Up 2 grams from yesterday.

Here's my question: she hasn't defecated yet. At what point should I be concerned about that? I am stimulating her after every feeding.

[Scooterzmom]

If she's only been given pedialyte/hydration fluids then she won't be pooping. Keep the hydration going until you're confident she's fully hydrated. Has anyone warned you about the troubles with Esbilac? Some squirrels (very many in fact, too many) have ended up with bad diarrhea. The ideal and best formula, made especially for squirrels is Fox Valley - which you can order online.

I'm in a rush but if you look in the nutrition thread you will see the link. In the meanwhile you may want to put this little one on goat's milk formula until the FV arrives.

Here is the recipe for the goat's milk formula - compliments of Jackie in Tampa:

1 cup Goats milk
1/3 cup heavy cream
1/3 cup Dannon all natural vanilla yogurt (Not light)
Mix well and keep in a plastic or glass container in refrigerator. Lasts 72 hours in refrigerator.
Warm formula to feed. Only takes a few seconds in the microwave. Be careful not to overheat will curdle the yogurt.

[astra]

sorry if I misunderstood, but are you mixing pedialyte with formula?... if so, then don't - never mix pedialyte with formula. They should be given separately (e.g., 1 feeding of pedialyte, 1 feeding of formula etc).

Also, Esbilac is not a good type of formula. Just today, I think, there was a thread of a baby on Esbilac that had severe constipation and other babies that had severe diarrhea on Esbilac.

You need to order Fox Valley, either from www.henryspets.com or www.foxvalleynutrition.com. Fox Valley is the best formula for squirrels.

In the meantime, you could use homemade goat's milk formula.

But as far as meds and other specifics of solving poop problems - I will let experts speak.:grouphug

[Izzie]

She pooped! Yay! Solid dark colored stool in a long continuous string (held together by mucous?)

[pappy1264]

Muccous is usually indicitive of bowel upset. I would switch to the goats milk recipe (off the esbilac) and order some fox valley. You can keep her on the goats milk formula for a bit, it is easy to digest. Many have had stomach issues with esbilac (they changed the formula). I would suggest getting her on the gm and see if things improve.

[Izzie]

She's doing great. Gaining weight (76g this morning). Urinating and defecating well. Her stool is yellow and softer now. No longer contains mucous. Her wounds are healing well. Switched her to Goat's Milk based Esbilac - hope that's better? God, I'm tired. Practice for motherhood...

[island rehabber]

Izzie you did a great job here! SMZ-TMP, acidophilus, Silvadene cream.....perfect protocol for cat caught.:thumbsup The only thing was diluting the formula with Pedialyte, as already posted, but we forgive ya :D. Best wishes for her continued improvement!

[Izzie]

Thanks. I need to figure out what to do with her. I'm given to understand that the odds are in favor of she and Cudz NOT being friendly with each other. And she's likely to be bitey in adulthood if I keep her. I'm also not in a suitable situation to prepare her for release. And I strongly feel that wild animals deserve to live in their natural environment, but I question the ability of a bottle raised infant to learn the necessary skills.

I was referred, by a couple of people, to our local "squirrel lady" who raises orphans and allows them to come and go in her yard when they mature. I'm having reservations about turning the baby over because she's got about a dozen babies currently and was eager to take mine. This strikes me as a little off. She also feeds a scalded milk and yogert mixture which she claims to have used sucessfully for many years. I could also give her my baby after she's weaned...

I also know exactly where she was found. Do any of you think it's possible to reunite her with her mother after her wounds heal?

[Izzie]

Disregard that last post. I'll start a new thread. Also, loaded question. I'll figure it out.

[gs1]

lots of things can cause stomach upsets.....


esbilac!!! (cement constipation or diarrhea), KMR, etc...

then also

dehydration (give some plain water between feedings)

being too cold ... (keep the heating pad under half the box on low)

if the formula is cold (usually they won't drink it)


that kind of poop sounds bad.....sounds like esbilac poop....


I really hesitate about the goats milk esbilac.... i just don't like esbilac ... terrible company.....

they changed their puppy formula 2 years ago and many squirrels died... they now do not recommend their formula for squirrels ...


nick at fox valley is for wildlife!!! he has specific squirrel formulas..... and about 20 others for deer, racoons etc.....he's as cheap if not cheaper than any other brand... and he's got a wonderful, perfect product .....doesn't even charge people until they get their order....



the temporary goats milk formula we use here is easy to buy and not expensive...it's just goats milk, cream and a good yogurt....


as for the scalded milk recipe ... that's killed so many squirrels....


i hestitate to use any rehabber that uses it....

you could do the lady a favour and let her try some of the fox valley when you buy some ... and see what she thinks ...also introduce her to this site...

she is either interested in learning new ways to help squirrels or she's not...and if she's not i'd not want her to have my squirrel either....


the other big problem is metabolic bone disorder... calcium is leached from the bones because the blood is trying to balance itself because the squirrel has an imbalanced diet.... the bones are brittle, break easily and the squirrel dies a slow death...

ps: you could have a squirrel from day one... and still when his hormones kick in he'll know how to be a squirrel... we prefer they be kept in pairs or more... but the squirrel instinct kicks in ... we do slow releases to get them used to their surroundings it is much kinder......

can you tell us where you are ...city etc.... then we can find people to help you ... we have many members.




Thanks. I need to figure out what to do with her. I'm given to understand that the odds are in favor of she and Cudz NOT being friendly with each other. And she's likely to be bitey in adulthood if I keep her. I'm also not in a suitable situation to prepare her for release.

And I strongly feel that wild animals deserve to live in their natural environment, but I question the ability of a bottle raised infant to learn the necessary skills.


I was referred, by a couple of people, to our local "squirrel lady" who raises orphans and allows them to come and go in her yard when they mature. I'm having reservations about turning the baby over because she's got about a dozen babies currently and was eager to take mine. This strikes me as a little off. She also feeds a scalded milk and yogert mixture which she claims to have used sucessfully for many years. I could also give her my baby after she's weaned...

I also know exactly where she was found. Do any of you think it's possible to reunite her with her mother after her wounds heal?

[Izzie]

I'm in the Pacific Northwest but hesitate to get more specific on a public forum for obvious reasons. Similarly there are no licensed rehabbers who can take her. The Squirrel Lady offered me an age-appropriate friend for Ivy if I decide to keep her so they can socialize normally. I'm considering that. She's developed diarrhea so I gave her some SQ fluids this evening and am switching her to the goat's milk formula until the Fox Valley arrives. I also stopped the SMZ-TMS since her wounds are mostly healed now. Cuddles is fascinated by her smell and little noises. He's never seen another squirrel in his life.

[gs1]

um you mean the goats milk esbilac not the temporary goats milk formula?


it's very important to specify which one ...they're not the same thing at all.....



i totally agree when your little one is 100% to introduce at least another one... they'll keep each other company and more fun for you.....

ok ...let me think

we have winky2 ... in oregon.... i think she works for a sanctuary or wildlife center....

and wheezer is up there too....

does that help you or should i look for more....

i think we have a member in seattle ....

and we have another member in washington state....

at the very least they could help you with release....:D

[gs1]

can we have a time line on the diarrhea?

i'm thinking regardless of goats milk esbilac or standard esbilac you'll have digestive problems....

please give her some extra water between feedings....

:grouphug

[gs1]

God, I'm tired. Practice for motherhood...



:D :thumbsup

[Izzie]

Diarrhea started about 24 hours ago. I stopped antibiotics immediately - her wounds are almost healed. And switched her from the Esbilac to the the Temporary Goats Milk formula this evening after I was able to pick up the ingredients. I also had my vet recheck her this afternoon and gave her warm LRS SQ. Her stools are firming up a bit now and she's eating more aggresively. I'd love a PM from anyone in my general area for assistance with release.

[gs1]

formula time line


normal esbilac....

then

goats milk esbilac

and now 'jackies temporary goats milk formula'


???? is that right or am i mistaken and you bought the goats milk esbilac and never used it...???


antibiotics were stopped because of diarrhea but how long were they supposed to be given? i'm thinking 10 days but ofcourse i don't know... your vet would know....

generally antibiotics should not be stopped before course ended cause of the super bugs etc....

with antibiotics and diarrhea usually benebac is recommended it's in the pets stores and the intructions are on the pack....

can you pm me with your location? ...just the closest city....

that rehabber you have in mind ... could still be good if she's willing to learn a little more on nutrition but as you said ... you thought her a little bit off... although to be honest most of us can appear a little bit off to some types of other people....:D

[island rehabber]

sorry gs1, gotta disagree: anyone still using scalded milk for baby squirrels IS a little off, in that they are STUPID. The evidence is so much to the contrary that to believe scalded milk is good for baby squirrels is to choose ignorance. These same people who tell you "they've been using it for YEARS!" will also tell you they have a "50% survival rate, which is good when it comes to wildlife....." sorry, B*LLSH*T!

ok, rant over. How's the baby today, Izzie?

[gs1]

sorry gs1, gotta disagree: anyone still using scalded milk for baby squirrels IS a little off, in that they are STUPID. The evidence is so much to the contrary that to believe scalded milk is good for baby squirrels is to choose ignorance. These same people who tell you "they've been using it for YEARS!" will also tell you they have a "50% survival rate, which is good when it comes to wildlife....." sorry, B*LLSH*T!

ok, rant over. How's the baby today, Izzie?


:hidechair.... ok ...IR agree totally agree... i didn't know what to say when i first heard it ...what i did want to say was... .... scalded milk has killed more squirrles than e------ac ... but i didn't want to start legal problems for you ..... :D


but ...i'm imagining a sweet little old lady, totally isolated from civilization and the internet thinking that she's helping the squirrels best as she can.... ...not realising that there's better information out there...

i don't want to write her off... i want her to get fox valley!!! :poke

and seriously we're both considered very strange people by most of the population!!! squirrrels instead of manicures makes us very, very strange....:D




Izzie: how is the baby today ????

i'm so glad she now on jackies t.g.m.formula:thumbsup

did you talk to your vet???

antibiotics can cause diarrhea....

but you can't just take them off them before time either....

can you get some benebac at the pet store and use according to directions on pack?




:confused:

[Izzie]

Hiya! Little Ivy is doing great today. Up to 79g. Eating really well. Stools are firming up. And, yeah, I did ask the vet before discontinuing the antibiotics. (I work with my vet). I need to have her tested for skin mites before considering introducing another baby to her. She's got some scabs that look suspect (maybe parasites rather than cat inflicted wounds). I'm waiting until she's back on the right track (maybe tomorrow).

The Squirrel Lady is a follower if Clarissa Summers and says she's never lost an uninjured baby. Talked to her yesterday and she was on her way to pick up two more. She was recommended to me by a vet and a technician (who don't know each other). I'm always concerned when an individual who does rescue seems eager to take on more than they can handle.